WE ARE THE PROBLEM, NOT SC2.
Even though SC2 might not be the most perfect game, neither was BW but we didn't have blizzard holding our hands in BW, so players couldn't bitch, they just PLAYED THE GAME.
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emc
United States3088 Posts
WE ARE THE PROBLEM, NOT SC2. Even though SC2 might not be the most perfect game, neither was BW but we didn't have blizzard holding our hands in BW, so players couldn't bitch, they just PLAYED THE GAME. | ||
Rasera
Canada96 Posts
On October 20 2012 01:30 Grummler wrote: Show nested quote + On October 20 2012 01:22 MicroTastiC wrote: Sase just explained all the protoss' problems that every P has been complaining about. pls FIX the game Its more about fixing the whiners than fixing the game, really. To many threads read like this: Blabla, race x is weak because <insert scenarios in which race x loses>, therefore (and because i am extremly smart) i will once and for all solve all problems: <insert stupid buffs that would make race x overpowered>. There is a difference between whining and criticism though. Infestor OP, plz nerf is whine. Infestor needs to be looked at because X, Y, Z is more on the side of criticism. Using your exact wording, Terran is weak because Colossus absolutely rapes T1 bio. Therefore, <insert credentials> I will once and for all solve all problems: Remove the Colossus. Zerg is weak because early game pressure kills me. Therefore, <because I am IdrA> I will once and for all solve all problems: Remove marines from the game after raping David Kim with a tire iron. Jokes aside, that's balance whine, because there's no discussion viability, and there's no real reason for it since viable counters exist and work within the metagame. Protoss is weak because Brood lord infestor gives no viable late game option. Therefore, <because I am Sase> I will once and for all solve all problems: Change how free units work or change how the infestor works. See the difference? His suggestions (some of them anyways) are very reasonable, and provide room for discussion beyond 'Infestor OP! Get rid of it!' It's not balance whine in the sense that he acknowledges the reasons for current metagame and winrates based on this issue. | ||
dukem
Norway189 Posts
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Typhoon1789
Australia292 Posts
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FidoDido
United States1292 Posts
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wajd
240 Posts
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Andre
Slovenia3515 Posts
Also it sounds to me SaSe isn't very objective here, but no reason to expect that I guess. As a protoss source of knowledge Grubby's thinking is vastly more objective. | ||
Polygamy
Austria1114 Posts
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Extenz
Italy822 Posts
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growlizing
Norway122 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:55 blade55555 wrote: I like how you seem to think PvZ problems are throughout the whole game when in fact the only time protoss is at a disadvantage in today's pvz now of days is the late game with proper bl/corr/infestor control. Early - mid game protoss is incredibly powerful. Also nerfing the infestor would be fine but you would HAVE to buff zerg to compensate for the nerf. You have to realize the infestor is the only reason zergs can win games zvp and zvt. If you nerfed the infestor you would have to compensate somewhere else otherwise zergs would never win zvp/zvt. I know how frustrating the infestor is (Force fields just as frustrating fyi) but it's also the only unit that makes zerg not underpowered and allows us to win games. In general I would like infestor/sentry changed so they can't stop units and both races rebalanced so they don't have to rely on spells that stop the opponent from microing. It's dumb, it's boring and I never think of it as exciting to watch. I also hope at least for HOTS that blizzard works on late game and makes it so that zerg doesn't have to go bl/corr/infestor to win and can make it more exciting as currently and will since sc2 release as far as I am concerned zvp has been boring as watching paint dry. Thank you. My feelings as zerg as well. I also think warpin is a problematic mechanic to balance. You pay the building time in advance _and_ you get the reinforcements directly in the ongoing battle. It is incredibly hard to make sense of, and is the source why protoss are so well off with doing timings. | ||
TyrionSC2
United States411 Posts
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LawnMower
Sweden557 Posts
Nicely put. | ||
Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
On October 20 2012 00:07 sitromit wrote: Sase's Korean TLPD record vs Z = 35% For comparison, Rain = 70%, Squirtle = 63%, JYP = 66%. Protoss pro who is extremely bad in matchup makes a giant nerf post, everyone jumps on the opportunity to join in on the whine fest about how every single Zerg unit, even creep tumors, are overpowered. This thread is sad and hilarious at the same time. And when Idra or Destiny gives their 'balance suggestions'' everyone talks about how insightful and on-spot they are despite their ''suggestions'' and ideas being close to sh!t (sorry, but this word suits very well). Double standards much ? SaSe named a lot of things he doesn't like or thinks is OP. It's ok to express his opinion and it's our choice to decide he's wrong or right (and it's still a very subjective question). On some things I agree and on some- I disagree. However, this is really far from a whine. SaSe gave his opinion and it seems like it's too much to handle for butt-kissing community. | ||
HellionDrop
281 Posts
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On October 20 2012 01:59 emc wrote: no the real problem is that blizzard is willing to make changes. So instead of players adapting to the game, they bitch about how blizzard must change things. WE ARE THE PROBLEM, NOT SC2. Even though SC2 might not be the most perfect game, neither was BW but we didn't have blizzard holding our hands in BW, so players couldn't bitch, they just PLAYED THE GAME. This. It's too late now though, they've already made too many changes to the game to just leave it alone. | ||
seanisgrand
United States1039 Posts
On October 19 2012 11:45 NeMeSiS3 wrote: Lol. You know what I like? Going onto the SC2 general and seeing "my opinion" from 3 pros and Slayers disbanding... shouldn't all of these be blogs? Do they get random permission to post opinions on the main forum because of there status so it eventually gets spammed? It's getting really tiring seeing "here's my opinion, I play the game you should care, let me post it where you all see it" If pros can't state an opinion, then your opinion of a pro stating an opinion is not allowed either. | ||
Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
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Gnusnu
United States118 Posts
On October 20 2012 02:31 Huragius wrote: Show nested quote + On October 20 2012 00:07 sitromit wrote: Sase's Korean TLPD record vs Z = 35% For comparison, Rain = 70%, Squirtle = 63%, JYP = 66%. Protoss pro who is extremely bad in matchup makes a giant nerf post, everyone jumps on the opportunity to join in on the whine fest about how every single Zerg unit, even creep tumors, are overpowered. This thread is sad and hilarious at the same time. And when Idra or Destiny gives their 'balance suggestions'' everyone talks about how insightful and on-spot they are despite their ''suggestions'' and ideas being close to sh!t (sorry, but this word suits very well). Double standards much ? SaSe named a lot of things he doesn't like or thinks is OP. It's ok to express his opinion and it's our choice to decide he's wrong or right (and it's still a very subjective question). On some things I agree and on some- I disagree. However, this is really far from a whine. SaSe gave his opinion and it seems like it's too much to handle for butt-kissing community. No actually Idra and Destiny got similar responses. This included people that thought every idea they had was brilliant. Well, this thread has a lot of those people too. I think a reasonable person is someone trying to point out none of these balance changes would balance anything while a more reasonable person is someone avoiding the thread entirely. | ||
sitromit
7051 Posts
On October 20 2012 02:31 Huragius wrote: Show nested quote + On October 20 2012 00:07 sitromit wrote: Sase's Korean TLPD record vs Z = 35% For comparison, Rain = 70%, Squirtle = 63%, JYP = 66%. Protoss pro who is extremely bad in matchup makes a giant nerf post, everyone jumps on the opportunity to join in on the whine fest about how every single Zerg unit, even creep tumors, are overpowered. This thread is sad and hilarious at the same time. And when Idra or Destiny gives their 'balance suggestions'' everyone talks about how insightful and on-spot they are despite their ''suggestions'' and ideas being close to sh!t (sorry, but this word suits very well). Double standards much ? SaSe named a lot of things he doesn't like or thinks is OP. It's ok to express his opinion and it's our choice to decide he's wrong or right (and it's still a very subjective question). On some things I agree and on some- I disagree. However, this is really far from a whine. SaSe gave his opinion and it seems like it's too much to handle for butt-kissing community. Far from it. When Idra gives his balance suggestions, people just laugh and call him a whiner. When Destiny does, everyone just calls him bad. Sase has a terrible record vs Z. There are Protoss players, who are playing better opponents than who he goes up against more often, who have 2 wins for every one of his. He is just incompetent at the matchup and is lashing out, instead of trying to get better. | ||
DreamTheaterFan
Canada52 Posts
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