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On October 23 2012 22:03 Sinedd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 21:50 Fragile51 wrote:On October 23 2012 21:49 Sinedd wrote:On October 23 2012 21:43 opterown wrote:On October 23 2012 21:42 Fragile51 wrote:On October 23 2012 21:40 Lylat wrote:On October 23 2012 21:33 Fragile51 wrote:On October 23 2012 21:31 X3GoldDot wrote:On October 23 2012 21:19 GTR wrote: Remove Ohana, but not Antiga or Entombed (or even Daybreak)? Really? daybreak is the best map atm no? Daybreak is a great map, and it's also old as fuck. I mean it's great that the map has endured for so long but it's time for something else, to be honest. Weird logic, if it's great why would you change it and risking having a bad map instead ? Because having the same map pool for well over a year while people are complaining about the game getting stale is not good business. we need a jessica reskin of the map, so MMA can nuke daybreak all day long On October 23 2012 21:42 Sinedd wrote: SC2 seriously needs more map circulation..
and bigger maps.. lol, really? maps are getting huge already I dont think you know what should be called a HUGE map.. just check out BW ones Different game, different results. Bigger is not always better. ofc not but with Starcraft it always goes along in SC2 - bigger maps = better maps imo Bigger maps = Zerg will win everything.
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Italy12246 Posts
Wierd how they keep adding maps where P has such a hard time taking a third in PvZ. Honestly in both Abyssal City and Bel'Shir Vestige, not going immortal sentry all-in is really really silly....so why the hell remove Ohana in the first place. All 3 maps promote that allin but at least on Ohana P can hold a third.
The third layout on the new map is like Dual Sight's and we know how that turns out.
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Damn that map looks so sick. Need to play it tonight!
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I feel bad for the people casting TvTs on this map...
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Looks like a really bad map for toss... large ramps and openings to everything that's not a main. and with so much out-of-the-way space for proxy raxes
hope it plays better than the way im looking at it
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I wonder why they removed Ohana and not antiga or entombed... The new map looks really cool.
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Ohana was incredibly boring, glad they got rid of it And it begins to annoy me that maps need to be made so that PvZ is somewhat balanced. We're missing out on a lot of creativity
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On October 23 2012 23:44 Aunvilgod wrote: I feel bad for the people casting TvTs on this map... GSL TvT is probably the most entertaining match-up
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Australia528 Posts
that third is not defensible in PvZ and a crapton of deadspace for mutas and drops. oh lord...
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Earlier in the year I was all for Antiga going into GSL retirement, but I kind of like it again as it helps counter infestor/brood lol.
Was hoping Muspelheim might get a run this season =/
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On October 24 2012 00:03 LeLfe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 23:44 Aunvilgod wrote: I feel bad for the people casting TvTs on this map... GSL TvT is probably the most entertaining match-up
Yes, and I don´t imagine what casting an 1,5 hours long TvT does to your throat. I was trying to point out that the map is incredibly splitty.
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Canada13372 Posts
On October 23 2012 21:19 GTR wrote: Remove Ohana, but not Antiga or Entombed (or even Daybreak)? Really?
Terran realllly needs antiga in the map pool. For the sake of winrates everywhere
Though More and More its less and less terran favoured into the lategame
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So, basically this is Daybreak reworked with harder to defend 3rd. I don't see the reason why both this AND Daybreak should stay. With similar layout, Bel'shir Vestige seems to have potential to replace Daybreak.
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On October 23 2012 21:47 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 21:46 Kiyo. wrote:On October 23 2012 21:43 Dodgin wrote:On October 23 2012 21:40 Lylat wrote:On October 23 2012 21:33 Fragile51 wrote:On October 23 2012 21:31 X3GoldDot wrote:On October 23 2012 21:19 GTR wrote: Remove Ohana, but not Antiga or Entombed (or even Daybreak)? Really? daybreak is the best map atm no? Daybreak is a great map, and it's also old as fuck. I mean it's great that the map has endured for so long but it's time for something else, to be honest. Weird logic, if it's great why would you change it and risking having a bad map instead ? because watching games on the same maps forever is boring Maybe for some people, but I'd imagine mostly not. CS1.6 had the same maps for most of its esport lifetime. DotA/LoL use the same single map and they're fine. Do football fields get boring because they all look the same? yeah, football needs high ground, high yield minerals, destructible rocks and xelnaga towers! holy crap imagine the effect on the game lol
I'd argue that the field of play in most sports takes a "PERSONALITY OF ITS OWN" much like maps do in Starcraft.
Football: -100 yards from goal line to goal line. with endzones each 10 yards deep. 160 feet between sidelines. -artificial turf -natural grass -indoor stadiums -take into consideration weather conditions like snow, ice, rain, extreme heat, extreme cold, wind, all of which play a role in how effective ball control is. -College football and Professional Football use two different sets of hash marks
Baseball: -what changes as far as dimensions in professional baseball and other leagues is the size of the outfield. the infield never changes, its a perfect square 90 feet per side. -indoor -outdoor -turf -natural grasss -aritficial turf -weather conditions like rain, mist, cold, heat, I have even seen games played with thousands of moths flying around. -depending on the time of day, the sun can play a major role in visability, shadows that fool the batter or the fielders -the baseball diamond has had the same dimensions for at least 150 years. 90 feet between each base in a perfect square. with the pitchers mound 60 feet 6 inches from homeplate directly in line between homeplate and second base.
Hockey: -very little changes in a Hockey arena, but the ice does change after 20 mins of skating on it. hence why the Zambonee resurfaces the ice between periods by the way, hockey and Baseball share this quality in that during breaks, the grounds crew can change the playing field by repairing flaws.
Basketball: -probably the only major sport with very little change to the field of play. the court for most major competitions is almost always indoors, in a controlled environment. -the biggest change to the sport of basketball was the implementation of the 3-point line. This 3-point line is still being changed to this day and has seen experimentation with distances to the basket in different leagues.
Tennis: -Grass, Clay, Concrete -concrete can have a number of different finishing surfaces one of which is Carpet used in some indoor arenas. -Grass courts and Clay courts can take on a personality of their own through wear and tear and are constantly being monitored and repaired. -Professional Tennis matches are almost always played in sunlight or artificial light, during non-precipitation. the only exception to this is that Clay can absorb water and can withstand a light drizzle. -Wind in outdoor matches can have a dramatic affect on ball control.
Soccer: -for being one of the most widely played sports in the world, Soccer has never had a set standard for the dimensions of the field. depending on where you are in the world. the field can be really big or kind of small. -in FIFA matches, the field must be 100-130 yards in length and 50-100 yards in width. -like many of the other sports, this game can be played on different types of fields. Grass, artificial turf, indoors, outdoors. -there are some varieties of the game that occur on much smaller fields like indoor arena type soccer games -this game has also seen a change in the types of soccer balls used. -outdoor games have seen its fair share of matches played in rain, wind, snow, extreme heat and extreme cold.
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so as you can see. I think we miss the point sometimes that the map, even if its just the map, does become a character. its character shines through when strategies are conceived which take advantage of its character.
which happens in any sport.
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Nice that hey got rid of Ohana, but I would've liked to see Muspelheim in the mappool first and Vestige as a replacement for Ohana in GSTL
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the same 2-player map layout with a few modifications. I feel like sc2 map-making is facing a cul de sac for the last 1.5 years
oh at least it has more features than Ohana
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Do any of you people like any maps?
Sounds like for a lot of people the ideal map is something like Entombed. Blizzard might as well just reprogram the game to start everyone off with 3 bases and 66 workers. Save us the time.
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Tournaments are too shy about maps. The SC2 scene would be a lot more dynamic if we changed all the maps each season, or each 2 seasons. Atleast chaging half of them each season, changing the other half next season.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22271 Posts
On October 24 2012 00:27 twoliveanddie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 21:47 opterown wrote:On October 23 2012 21:46 Kiyo. wrote:On October 23 2012 21:43 Dodgin wrote:On October 23 2012 21:40 Lylat wrote:On October 23 2012 21:33 Fragile51 wrote:On October 23 2012 21:31 X3GoldDot wrote:On October 23 2012 21:19 GTR wrote: Remove Ohana, but not Antiga or Entombed (or even Daybreak)? Really? daybreak is the best map atm no? Daybreak is a great map, and it's also old as fuck. I mean it's great that the map has endured for so long but it's time for something else, to be honest. Weird logic, if it's great why would you change it and risking having a bad map instead ? because watching games on the same maps forever is boring Maybe for some people, but I'd imagine mostly not. CS1.6 had the same maps for most of its esport lifetime. DotA/LoL use the same single map and they're fine. Do football fields get boring because they all look the same? yeah, football needs high ground, high yield minerals, destructible rocks and xelnaga towers! holy crap imagine the effect on the game lol + Show Spoiler +I'd argue that the field of play in most sports takes a "PERSONALITY OF ITS OWN" much like maps do in Starcraft.
Football: -100 yards from goal line to goal line. with endzones each 10 yards deep. 160 feet between sidelines. -artificial turf -natural grass -indoor stadiums -take into consideration weather conditions like snow, ice, rain, extreme heat, extreme cold, wind, all of which play a role in how effective ball control is. -College football and Professional Football use two different sets of hash marks
Baseball: -what changes as far as dimensions in professional baseball and other leagues is the size of the outfield. the infield never changes, its a perfect square 90 feet per side. -indoor -outdoor -turf -natural grasss -aritficial turf -weather conditions like rain, mist, cold, heat, I have even seen games played with thousands of moths flying around. -depending on the time of day, the sun can play a major role in visability, shadows that fool the batter or the fielders -the baseball diamond has had the same dimensions for at least 150 years. 90 feet between each base in a perfect square. with the pitchers mound 60 feet 6 inches from homeplate directly in line between homeplate and second base.
Hockey: -very little changes in a Hockey arena, but the ice does change after 20 mins of skating on it. hence why the Zambonee resurfaces the ice between periods by the way, hockey and Baseball share this quality in that during breaks, the grounds crew can change the playing field by repairing flaws.
Basketball: -probably the only major sport with very little change to the field of play. the court for most major competitions is almost always indoors, in a controlled environment. -the biggest change to the sport of basketball was the implementation of the 3-point line. This 3-point line is still being changed to this day and has seen experimentation with distances to the basket in different leagues.
Tennis: -Grass, Clay, Concrete -concrete can have a number of different finishing surfaces one of which is Carpet used in some indoor arenas. -Grass courts and Clay courts can take on a personality of their own through wear and tear and are constantly being monitored and repaired. -Professional Tennis matches are almost always played in sunlight or artificial light, during non-precipitation. the only exception to this is that Clay can absorb water and can withstand a light drizzle. -Wind in outdoor matches can have a dramatic affect on ball control.
Soccer: -for being one of the most widely played sports in the world, Soccer has never had a set standard for the dimensions of the field. depending on where you are in the world. the field can be really big or kind of small. -in FIFA matches, the field must be 100-130 yards in length and 50-100 yards in width. -like many of the other sports, this game can be played on different types of fields. Grass, artificial turf, indoors, outdoors. -there are some varieties of the game that occur on much smaller fields like indoor arena type soccer games -this game has also seen a change in the types of soccer balls used. -outdoor games have seen its fair share of matches played in rain, wind, snow, extreme heat and extreme cold.
--------------- so as you can see. I think we miss the point sometimes that the map, even if its just the map, does become a character. its character shines through when strategies are conceived which take advantage of its character. which happens in any sport.
What you describe is more analogous to a map's tileset than the map layout. Everything you describe, the layout remains the same. Still two goals, still 15 feet from the ring, still a diamond, etc. It's only the tileset that really changes, as well as some physics changes but do we really want snow/beach/metal/grass maps to have bonus/penalties too?
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it looks like crossfire 2.0 on first glance to me. I see Byun might like this one for TvP lol
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