Burrow vs Cloak - Page 11
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
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nebula.
Sweden1431 Posts
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krawnicks
Germany46 Posts
For Infestors: It is a bit less obvious and harder to spot, but if you'd watch on the ground more often you would see them too. | ||
D4V3Z02
Germany693 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3208 Posts
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SnipedSoul
Canada2158 Posts
On November 12 2012 01:20 doffe wrote: you cant really say that fungal is better the seeker missile and that IT is better then AT? What makes the infestor more used is not its superior abilities its that its so much easier to have the infrastructure to get alot of them out. I actually think that if you could build ravens from larva you would make those instead of infestors :p. but hey, personally I agree that the infestor is a boring unit. Anything that stuns is boring, Balance aside i think its a designflaw and would have nothing at all against them removing fungal aslong as something else is added. People seem to forget sometime that zergs dont only make infestors cause they are so good, they make them cause lategame max vs max its damn close to impossible to win without them. Remove the infestor and we truly need something else. IT are much better than AT because you can actually place IT during a battle. ATs get blocked by units and creep tumors because they're considered buildings whereas IT are units. | ||
D4V3Z02
Germany693 Posts
On November 12 2012 01:50 SnipedSoul wrote: IT are much better than AT because you can actually place IT during a battle. ATs get blocked by units and creep tumors because they're considered buildings whereas IT are units. But you can also argue that AT's last so long that u cant just run away like from IT's. Also AT's are placed from a flying unit which cant be blocked from other units. | ||
WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On November 11 2012 14:51 Rabiator wrote: Explain to me why the Infestor is NOT overpowered with its abilities. Just compare them to the Raven and use everything applicable for example the question "how dense can autoturrets be stacked" and then figure out the same for Infested Terrans. How about the casting ranges? How about the energy cost for autoturret/Infested Terran or Seeker Missile/Fungal Growth. You will notice a defiite advantage for the Infestor who is cheaper and lower tech as well. If the Raven is balanced then the Infestor isnt and even though the Raven is "a little weak" the Infestor is much stronger than that small lack of power and Fungal Growth alone is a stupid spell ... which has been explained in depth already. So who is "biased" here? So you argue that the infestor is better than the raven, hence it's overpowered? In a game like starcraft, such logic is flawed. You could also argue that siege tanks are better than banelings, or colossus for that matter. You could argue about how zerg has rather weak mobile anti-air in the early game, or that protosses are "underpowered" in the manner that you can depower their buildings by destroying their pylons. Terran is able to make their production facilities untargeted by anything but anti-air units, which would be "overpowered" against a groundbased zerg army that doesn't have any anti-air since queens aren't very mobile unless you've already practically won the game and have creep everywhere, and hydralisks pretty much die to any mid-game composition. But all of this sounds silly to complain about, doesn't it? If you're arguing that the infestor is overpowered because it's better than the raven because it's more effective, cheaper, lower in tech, the 'raven is thought a little weak', then do you also argue that marines are overpowered because they are better than hydralisks in all of these aspects? If you're arguing only for the advantage of "your race", then you are biased. (I don't think that infestors are overpowered and neither do I think marines are overpowered) | ||
Severedevil
United States4795 Posts
That said, Ravens with Cloak would be pretty boss. | ||
StackerTwo
United States41 Posts
if i'm not mistaken it was Flash vs Life?? on ohana. who ever it was... the terran screwed up and didn't put a turret at the natural ramp so 4 infestors get into the main. by the time the terran reacted, ITs are killing the main mineral line, and zerg already shift-spread the infestors. Terran burns a couple of scans, kills 3 infestors. The fourth infestor remains to harass for the rest of the game; until terran GGs. Should the Terran randomly scan some more? Build turrets all over the base? build a raven? after losing SCVs, mining time, and a couple of scans? Burrow is the only form of cloak that mouse-scroll/zoom does not work on. | ||
WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On November 12 2012 02:16 Severedevil wrote: Comparing Ravens to Infestors is rather odd. Agreed. While they have their similarities, it's like comparing marauders to stalkers, or marines to hydralisks On November 12 2012 02:17 StackerTwo wrote: Burrow is the only form of cloak that mouse-scroll/zoom does not work on. Burrow is also the only form of cloak that isn't... cloak? As far as I'm aware there are only two forms of inivisbility anyway, so this sounds silly. I don't even really like the zoom trick to begin with, it would be nice if it was removed somehow. | ||
Diavlo
Belgium2915 Posts
On November 12 2012 02:17 StackerTwo wrote: This reminds me of a recent game... if i'm not mistaken it was Flash vs Life?? on ohana. who ever it was... the terran screwed up and didn't put a turret at the natural ramp so 4 infestors get into the main. by the time the terran reacted, ITs are killing the main mineral line, and zerg already shift-spread the infestors. Terran burns a couple of scans, kills 3 infestors. The fourth infestor remains to harass for the rest of the game; until terran GGs. Should the Terran randomly scan some more? Build turrets all over the base? build a raven? after losing SCVs, mining time, and a couple of scans? Burrow is the only form of cloak that mouse-scroll/zoom does not work on. So Terrans shouldn't be punished for putting turrets at the wrong places? Zergs lost countless games to banshees because they failed in putting spores at the right places, same with protoss and canons. Also, Flash won that game. | ||
Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On November 12 2012 02:17 StackerTwo wrote: This reminds me of a recent game... if i'm not mistaken it was Flash vs Life?? on ohana. who ever it was... the terran screwed up and didn't put a turret at the natural ramp so 4 infestors get into the main. by the time the terran reacted, ITs are killing the main mineral line, and zerg already shift-spread the infestors. Terran burns a couple of scans, kills 3 infestors. The fourth infestor remains to harass for the rest of the game; until terran GGs. Should the Terran randomly scan some more? Build turrets all over the base? build a raven? after losing SCVs, mining time, and a couple of scans? Burrow is the only form of cloak that mouse-scroll/zoom does not work on. It happened in Life vs Leenock on Daybreak game one at MLG, due to insufficient spore coverage. We are comparing apples and oranges here. So the cost of cloak is more than burrow, it really is a non issue. Terrans lay down missile turrets at their natural in basically every TvP I see, I see no reason not to extend this into TvZ. Protoss almost always does an FFE ergo cannon, and ZvZ this is kind of a non issue (once you see burrow, overseers come into play.). You could do a post about how Protoss should have to research observer cloak, or DT cloak because they are permanently invisible as well. Practice spotting burrowed Roaches that are moving on different tilesets if you like, but there is really no change that needs to be made. | ||
StackerTwo
United States41 Posts
but if it were a dt, obs, banshee, ghost you can just find it by scrolling around whether you are z/p/t. even if z/p/t didn't have detection at the time a DT/banshee shows up you can "follow it" around until your scan/overseer/obs arrives... I mean even without detection you can see a ghost or dt coming, and raise depots, block of chokes with units etc etc... but the same cannot be said for burrow... that is my point. | ||
ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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LeSioN
United States325 Posts
On November 12 2012 01:42 D4V3Z02 wrote: They should buff burrow because Zerg units cant attack and fly when invisible. You notice which point im making? This comparison is stupid. this. why is this even a discussion? are we makeing threads for every possible zerg unit and upgrade to qq about it? burrow is not directly comparable to cloak therfore trying to say that something subjective like one is harder to see than the other is just pointless. the fact that cloak forces the other player to have detection or lose is so completely different than burrow. I can burrow my roaches or infesters all day long and you dont have to do anything directly about it if you dont want. | ||
Incomplet
United Kingdom1419 Posts
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SnipedSoul
Canada2158 Posts
On November 12 2012 01:53 D4V3Z02 wrote: But you can also argue that AT's last so long that u cant just run away like from IT's. Also AT's are placed from a flying unit which cant be blocked from other units. You can't run away from ITs when you're fungalled. If ATs aren't down when a fight starts then they're pretty much a non issue. I don't see why you'd ever attack into a giant wall of them either. ITs can be thrown from burrowed infestors even when they're underneath the rest of your army, so infestors getting blocked is pretty unlikely. | ||
Incomplet
United Kingdom1419 Posts
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