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On November 20 2012 16:07 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 16:01 Falling wrote:I wish if they are so adamant to make the mothership as a goofy unit, then give us the Arbiter back. Or some equivalent. Like, why is it that the Protoss gets stuck with the 'non-serious' unit? 10 mins in. Very nice interview so far Heh well hydras have been that way in sc2 for a majority of it . Very informative interview :D
Actually, for some reason people were making roach/hydra/corrupter vs toss even at the end of last year...didnt realize till like february 2012 that hydra's suck.
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I really liked this interview - it seems Dustin Browder is more into the game compared than before, which I'm very very happy to see.
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On November 20 2012 17:07 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 16:57 Hizzay wrote:On November 20 2012 16:52 blade55555 wrote:On November 20 2012 16:50 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 20 2012 16:49 Al Bundy wrote:On November 20 2012 16:44 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 20 2012 16:40 Al Bundy wrote:Thanks for sharing Looks like we're going to have to wait for HotS in order to see significant changes. I'm fine with that. I agree with Dustin about the immortal all-in. Also I agree with him about Terran in HotS. Now hopefully when the balance test map (featuring the fungal immunity for psionic units) will be live, people won't jump to conclusions. Like all changes, it may take some time for the Zergs to adapt. I don't agree with him about the immortal all-in. He seems to think it can be solved by the players' strategies, when in actuality it is solved through map design. Any all in centering around forcefield has nothing to do with the Zerg it becomes a question of whether the Protoss hits his forcefields. This can be alleviated through better map design (*cough* no more Ohana maps please Blizzard) which allows the Zerg to bait forcefields earlier on and get a better concave/surround, since that's just about all the micro we can do against the all in. Bottom line is, there is no need for Blizzard to intervene in that specific matter. From a balance perspective, no. From a map design perspective, yes. Well and a fun perspective. We saw it used 3 times to sen i believe? I saw the last two games but it's just not fun to watch. It's just idk incredibly boring to watch someone do that lol. Sen actually defended it in the first game with roaches and 1-1 lings, but then still lost in a macro game. That was mostly because Parting went for the third instead of going straight into the natural, which is better for the Zerg. Also, Sen lost because he never denied Parting's third base after he stopped the all in, and stayed on 3 base far too long before taking a 4th, so Parting could recover.
That line really interested me, so I went and double checked all the vods of Parting vs zergs at BWC. Every time he went for immortal-sentry, he always went for the 3rd, except for the 1st game vs Suppy.
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Like they cant fix Reapers, Thors and Ravens now instead of waiting for HotS to excuse fact that Terrans get only 1 new unit.
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Honestly, if they're just gonna nerf everything about infestor, they should just redesign the unit.
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On November 20 2012 17:16 whatevername wrote: I'm quite optimistic. This community really annoys me, more and more. Infestors are imba, nerf nerf nerf! OMG your considering nerfing them? I'm terrified, all is lost! Seriously one guy suggested we cant beat immortal sentry all ins if we dont fungal-- infestors are not a standard counter against immortal sentry all in...at all...
HOTS will probably be really imba at first, and a lot of these changes to WoL units I expect to "blow up in their face" to be melodramatic, but the fact that there looking at it from a design stand point makes me optimistic. I'm perfectly fine playing 6 months of shifting balance if theres light at the end of the tunnel, and I think with a lot of these ideas and new units there probably is.
i had played WOL for 2 years and i didn't see any light in the tunnel end... It's been 2 years and the game is still not balanced and it's going to phase out in a few months time...
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Anything that helps make the game harder for zerg is good in my opinion. They really need to up the micro requirement for that race and nerfs to infestors are a great way.
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Everytime Justin says "riiight" take a sip of a drink :D
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They should just make the Mothership have the same abilities as the Mothership Core, except do more damage (and attack air), have more health, and cloak units under it. So it's basically just a lategame upgrade to the same unit. Maybe make it so you can put photon overcharge on the mothership itself.
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On November 20 2012 17:24 gengka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 17:16 whatevername wrote: I'm quite optimistic. This community really annoys me, more and more. Infestors are imba, nerf nerf nerf! OMG your considering nerfing them? I'm terrified, all is lost! Seriously one guy suggested we cant beat immortal sentry all ins if we dont fungal-- infestors are not a standard counter against immortal sentry all in...at all...
HOTS will probably be really imba at first, and a lot of these changes to WoL units I expect to "blow up in their face" to be melodramatic, but the fact that there looking at it from a design stand point makes me optimistic. I'm perfectly fine playing 6 months of shifting balance if theres light at the end of the tunnel, and I think with a lot of these ideas and new units there probably is. i had played WOL for 2 years and i didn't see any light in the tunnel end... It's been 2 years and the game is still not balanced and it's going to phase out in a few months time...
I think the balance reached a good place about a year in and was very good until about 6 months ago when it started to go tits up again.
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On November 20 2012 17:28 Groovy112 wrote: Everytime Justin says "riiight" take a sip of a drink :D Except his names Dustin, right?
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How they can? How they can put the mothership apart in hots, when they have already indirectly buffed, powered the stargate and the fleet beacon tech, lowered the mothership cost from 400\400 to 300\300... ? Its so much easy and "natural" get a mothership in hots, to achieve what browder says, blizz need to nerf ms to the ground ç_ç
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On November 20 2012 17:24 gengka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 17:16 whatevername wrote: I'm quite optimistic. This community really annoys me, more and more. Infestors are imba, nerf nerf nerf! OMG your considering nerfing them? I'm terrified, all is lost! Seriously one guy suggested we cant beat immortal sentry all ins if we dont fungal-- infestors are not a standard counter against immortal sentry all in...at all...
HOTS will probably be really imba at first, and a lot of these changes to WoL units I expect to "blow up in their face" to be melodramatic, but the fact that there looking at it from a design stand point makes me optimistic. I'm perfectly fine playing 6 months of shifting balance if theres light at the end of the tunnel, and I think with a lot of these ideas and new units there probably is. i had played WOL for 2 years and i didn't see any light in the tunnel end... It's been 2 years and the game is still not balanced and it's going to phase out in a few months time... I'm not hoping, expect, or want perfect balance. Heaven will not be in this life. What I want is a higher skill cap, and with that, a higher degree of strategical variance and meta game shifts, which through maps or otherwise, we the community can bridge the gap for balance for the most part. Thats all broodwar had. SC2 successfully had this variance for quite a while, its only been recently the game has become stultified and boring. If your so filled with despair, well, I dont really care. You wont be here in a month if thats the case and I'm not really going to plead with strangers to like a game they dont.
lol@ at the other guy, how dare they criticize marine king? wtf else do you expect them to do. People criticize blizzard for looking at balance purely mathematically because it ignores context, blizzard says they look at context and try to theory craft out mistakes as much as they can and people whine about that too. So I guess blizzard is, what, suppose to sacrifice 30 virgins every time they want to discuss balance? If they cant look at numbers and they cant look at context and figure it out with their own heads, the only thing left is magic.
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Russian Federation501 Posts
On November 20 2012 17:00 Fluid wrote: Why is he always so hyper in interviews? I get tired just listening to him speak. just shows he is thinking about these topics non-stop, so if he ever gets a chance to speak his speech flows like a freaking riverfall..
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I wish he could have been more aggressive with changing how HoTS plays out.
Protoss needs some semiserious changes with regards to its general power throughout the game. They need to fix toss early game by giving stalkers a gentle change then tweak zerg accordingly so that we can go back to when there was a greedy zerg style. Then maps could have some variety without being so damn skewed. Bad maps have had too much of an influence on the design tweeks.
Listening to this interview there are some cool ideas and somethings sound like they've considered everything but their unorthodox changes sometimes feel like they are just ... too out there.
Everyone talking about infestor broodlord as an issue from 6 months ago... Terran whine at lower winrates than what they were at start finally hit a crescendo.
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On November 20 2012 17:21 pivor wrote: Like they cant fix Reapers, Thors and Ravens now instead of waiting for HotS to excuse fact that Terrans get only 1 new unit. Fix them now and it might buff them to the point where Terran becomes OP, possibly for the rest of the competitive life of WoL since HotS in only 4 months away, which is not enough time for any major imbalances to be fixed by patches or figured out by players.
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On November 20 2012 17:32 whatevername wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 17:24 gengka wrote:On November 20 2012 17:16 whatevername wrote: I'm quite optimistic. This community really annoys me, more and more. Infestors are imba, nerf nerf nerf! OMG your considering nerfing them? I'm terrified, all is lost! Seriously one guy suggested we cant beat immortal sentry all ins if we dont fungal-- infestors are not a standard counter against immortal sentry all in...at all...
HOTS will probably be really imba at first, and a lot of these changes to WoL units I expect to "blow up in their face" to be melodramatic, but the fact that there looking at it from a design stand point makes me optimistic. I'm perfectly fine playing 6 months of shifting balance if theres light at the end of the tunnel, and I think with a lot of these ideas and new units there probably is. i had played WOL for 2 years and i didn't see any light in the tunnel end... It's been 2 years and the game is still not balanced and it's going to phase out in a few months time... I'm not hoping, expect, or want perfect balance. Heaven will not be in this life. What I want is a higher skill cap, and with that, a higher degree of strategical variance and meta game shifts, which through maps or otherwise, we the community can bridge the gap for balance for the most part. Thats all broodwar had. SC2 successfully had this variance for quite a while, its only been recently the game has become stultified and boring. If your so filled with despair, well, I dont really care. You wont be here in a month if thats the case and I'm not really going to plead with strangers to like a game they dont. lol@ at the other guy, how dare they criticize marine king? wtf else do you expect them to do. People criticize blizzard for looking at balance purely mathematically because it ignores context, blizzard says they look at context and try to theory craft out mistakes as much as they can and people whine about that too. So I guess blizzard is, what, suppose to sacrifice 30 virgins every time they want to discuss balance? If they cant look at numbers and they cant look at context and figure it out with their own heads, the only thing left is magic.
Except Dustin and his balance team are all gold/plat except dakim who is diamond. When you are at that level you can't judge a pro's play correctly and point out "what he could have done better".
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Once again, I really think that Blizzard is hugely overreacting with their Infestor changes. It's been overbuffed and overnerfed more times than I can count - but quite honestly, I think making Psionic units immune is a terrible way to try and solve the issue. Specifically, I'm referring to Sentries and Warp Prisms, as I can't imagine defending some Protoss pushes without fungal. That said, I agree with the idea of making Fungal less ridiculous lategame - would a reasonable compromise be a slow on psionic units ? I know that still doesn't solve the underlying anti-micro issues with the spell, but it might go a good way towards balancing WoL as we move closer to HotS.
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Sentry/Warp Prism/Templars/Infestors immune to Fungal? Well... Why should they do it? PvZ sucks, but that's not a balance, but rather a design issue. Nerfing the infestor like that will just break the Match-up completely, all these timings the Protoss have right now are terribly strong and fucking hard to hold even with the infestor right now. I agree that the late game army of the Zerg are too strong, but PvZ can't be fixed with an infestor nerf, the two races need a redesign to fix this issue - nerfing will just result in a completely broken Match up. Right now, PvZ sucks, but both races have good chances to win the game - just not in the same stage of the game. Yeah, it sucks, but... Doesn't really seem to be imbalanced, in my opinion.
ZvZ gets worse with these changes as well, infestors just won't die anymore at all. Nothing else to add.
TvZ, where the Infestors are the biggest problem, is just absolutely NOt affected by these changes. I'd prefer some kind of buff to the ghost, ghosts should be the counter to infestors and well... atm that's not really the case.
Dunno, but I don't undestand the reason why they should change the infestor like that. :-/
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On November 20 2012 17:36 Velinath wrote: Once again, I really think that Blizzard is hugely overreacting with their Infestor changes. It's been overbuffed and overnerfed more times than I can count - but quite honestly, I think making Psionic units immune is a terrible way to try and solve the issue. Specifically, I'm referring to Sentries and Warp Prisms, as I can't imagine defending some Protoss pushes without fungal. That said, I agree with the idea of making Fungal less ridiculous lategame - would a reasonable compromise be a slow on psionic units ? I know that still doesn't solve the underlying anti-micro issues with the spell, but it might go a good way towards balancing WoL as we move closer to HotS. They could just remove the Psionic attribute from certain Protoss units like the Sentry or Warp Prism. This would be a simple change that would affect nothing else, especially since Snipe doesn't affect those two units anyways. Although, Archon pushes might still be kinda strong.
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