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As I'm sure plenty of you have noticed, Playhem has pretty much gone completely dark over the last couple of weeks, with only points tournaments (in considerably smaller numbers) and no more Dailies or Turbos as before. Coupled with the complete black-out on their Twitter (http://twitter.com/Playhem) and their Facebook page playing host to nothing but a Steam Greenlight advert since the end of the Dailies/Turbos, this is worrying to say the least. Probably the worst part of this whole thing, and what should be setting alarm bells off for anyone, is that you can no longer withdraw money from your winnings to your Paypal - luckily I only had the dregs from a previous withdrawal left in my account, but still I end up with this on attempting to get those small few dollars out:
With everyone on the site wondering what has happened to the cash tournaments (and the cash behind them) and no real news available, the question is... what's happened to Playhem and the people/money behind it? Where has it gone?
Update
MrBitter apparently spoke to the Playhem guys at IPL5:
On December 06 2012 02:47 MrBitter wrote: I talked to a few of the Playhem guys in Vegas, and they all had very forward-looking plans. Don't freak out yet, guys.
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I wonder the same thing. But I also always wondered how they were financing this for so long?
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I kind of expected this to be honest. Was only a matter of time. Playhems $75 dailies always seemed a bit "too good to be true".
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On December 01 2012 06:17 roym899 wrote: I wonder the same thing. But I also always wondered how they were financing this for so long?
That's what I always wondered. Not to surprised they are probably gone now.
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when I asked in the playhem channel a few days ago, they said the site was under construction or something /shrug
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I hope its not staying problem, I still have a lot of money there :<
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Playhem sponsors White-Ra... other than a boring white t-shirt with their logo, what does he get from them?
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I always wondered how they make money...
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On December 01 2012 06:34 DoNotDisturb wrote: Playhem sponsors White-Ra... other than a boring white t-shirt with their logo, what does he get from them? Money?
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This is exactly the problem that the starcraft 2 scene has. We had a shit load of 25/50$ tournament, one each day. Than the "investors" from playhem come along and put 100$ fucking dollars on the line. First craft cup is gone than some ESL cups are gone. And guess what ? They can't afford the fucking 100$.
I always thought that the problem sc2 scene had was guy like these ( IPL, NASAL included ) coming into the scene with investments, realizing after 1 year or so that they can't keep up the prize pool and they are losing money and in the process "bankrupting" reasonable guys like ESL or CraftCup that could have literally grown the scene for years, steadily and with brain not with investors.
Yet people talk about that "better prize, better quality, go watch them... it's called fucking competition"... well, guess what, it's actually called stupid investors.
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I'm really just hoping that this thread will hit a critical mass and we'll get some answers sooner or later. I haven't seen White-Ra at any LANs recently (not that he hasn't been attending, I'm sure, just haven't spotted him) and it would be interesting to know if he still has the playhem patch on his jacket/a t-shirt from them and if they're still sponsoring him. The fact that pro players as well as those of us from the lower leagues have money stuck with them should hopefully see this resolved quicker.
On December 01 2012 06:52 Aterons_toss wrote: This is exactly the problem that the starcraft 2 scene has. We had a shit load of 25/50$ tournament, one each day. Than the "investors" from playhem come along and put 100$ fucking dollars on the line. First craft cup is gone than some ESL cups are gone. And guess what ? They can't afford the fucking 100$.
I always thought that the problem sc2 scene had was guy like these ( IPL, NASAL included ) coming into the scene with investments, realizing after 1 year or so that they can't keep up the prize pool and they are losing money and in the process "bankrupting" reasonable guys like ESL or CraftCup that could have literally grown the scene for years, steadily and with brain not with investors.
Yet people talk about that "better prize, better quality, go watch them... it's called fucking competition"... well, guess what, it's actually called stupid investors.
This probably also comes from the fact that they weren't just holding $75/100(on weekends) tournaments daily, but the fact they held smaller ones for every other league from bronze up to plat - a single daily is hard enough to maintain without 3 of them (IIRC)
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This has already been discussed and pros have said they can't withdraw money either. I believe the end conclusion was that they have halted their money tournaments temporarily to help pay for the recent website redesign.
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On December 01 2012 06:52 Aterons_toss wrote: This is exactly the problem that the starcraft 2 scene has. We had a shit load of 25/50$ tournament, one each day. Than the "investors" from playhem come along and put 100$ fucking dollars on the line. First craft cup is gone than some ESL cups are gone. And guess what ? They can't afford the fucking 100$.
I always thought that the problem sc2 scene had was guy like these ( IPL, NASAL included ) coming into the scene with investments, realizing after 1 year or so that they can't keep up the prize pool and they are losing money and in the process "bankrupting" reasonable guys like ESL or CraftCup that could have literally grown the scene for years, steadily and with brain not with investors.
Yet people talk about that "better prize, better quality, go watch them... it's called fucking competition"... well, guess what, it's actually called stupid investors.
Why IPL and NASL included? They haven't dropped out yet. They're still sticking with their prize packages. I understand you're worry, but isn't it a little too early to be criticizing them if they haven't dropped out yet?
On December 01 2012 06:55 oGsTrueSmug wrote: I'm really just hoping that this thread will hit a critical mass and we'll get some answers sooner or later. I haven't seen White-Ra at any LANs recently (not that he hasn't been attending, I'm sure, just haven't spotted him) and it would be interesting to know if he still has the playhem patch on his jacket/a t-shirt from them and if they're still sponsoring him. The fact that pro players as well as those of us from the lower leagues have money stuck with them should hopefully see this resolved quicker.
Well I know they sponsored IPL 4, and I don't see them on the sponsor list for IPL 5. This doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't sponsoring because their broke, but it sure doesn't help the case.
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On December 01 2012 06:57 MrCash wrote: This has already been discussed and pros have said they can't withdraw money either. I believe the end conclusion was that they have halted their money tournaments temporarily to help pay for the recent website redesign. That would explain the complete lack of any official statement with regards to this on their Twitter or Facebook, right?
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On December 01 2012 06:58 Acronysis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 06:52 Aterons_toss wrote: This is exactly the problem that the starcraft 2 scene has. We had a shit load of 25/50$ tournament, one each day. Than the "investors" from playhem come along and put 100$ fucking dollars on the line. First craft cup is gone than some ESL cups are gone. And guess what ? They can't afford the fucking 100$.
I always thought that the problem sc2 scene had was guy like these ( IPL, NASAL included ) coming into the scene with investments, realizing after 1 year or so that they can't keep up the prize pool and they are losing money and in the process "bankrupting" reasonable guys like ESL or CraftCup that could have literally grown the scene for years, steadily and with brain not with investors.
Yet people talk about that "better prize, better quality, go watch them... it's called fucking competition"... well, guess what, it's actually called stupid investors. Why IPL and NASL included? They haven't dropped out yet. They're still sticking with their prize packages. I understand you're worry, but isn't it a little too early to be criticizing them if they haven't dropped out yet?
You fell like their viewer are going up ? Generally when viewer count drops every other tournament or every 2-3 tournaments that's not a good sign.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
Investors realize there's a bubble -> stops investing -> bubble bursts.
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Wouldn't suprise me if they took a unannounced off-season or something, those dudes work so hard and do a great job.
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Just think about it, Playhem was secretly IPL the whole time, cause the caster lineup for IPL includes Kibbelz, SchAmToo, Robin, Frodan, and Jorosar. Also, TSL players are doing really well in IPL, IGN was behind Playhem the whole time! They just had to pull out and prepare for IPL5!
+ Show Spoiler +I'm kidding of course, hopefully they come out with an announcement soon
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On December 01 2012 06:57 MrCash wrote: This has already been discussed and pros have said they can't withdraw money either. I believe the end conclusion was that they have halted their money tournaments temporarily to help pay for the recent website redesign.
thats what i believe too. Since SC2 are their biggest tourneys and they redesign the website.. i guess they make some changes to the way tourneys work on their page which could take some time. It wouldnt make sense that this is the end when they are improving the website. Atleast i hope there will be a comeback.
I got a lot of withdraw errors too when the tourneys were still running. Took me like 2 weeks to get my money. I was a bit suspicious back then.
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Oh, no... Playhem, dead? Feels like they should have tried something like Netflix did, appealing more to the console market, by implementing a Playhem app. tied into XBox live's dashboard, PSN's OS, etc. Their marketing, AFAIK, has been geared mainly toward PC eSports. Hopefully they haven't failed completely. That would be sad.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Norway839 Posts
I wish. Personally still have 550$ left stuck in the site.
Don't forget the many 20$ turbo dailies before the break, conflicts with the 'halting tournaments to pay for website redesign' thing. Doesn't make sense to bring extra attention if something shady was about to happen.
Although, they did recently change their Facebook page not to show posts by others. Clearly, something is going on. And they don't want to look bad because of it - whatever they are taking their time to do.
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Really hope this doesn't turn into a big clusterfuck and players actually get paid.
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On December 06 2012 02:39 Snute wrote: I wish. Personally still have 550$ left stuck in the site.
Don't forget the many 20$ turbo dailies before the break, conflicts with the 'halting tournaments to pay for website redesign' thing. Doesn't make sense to bring extra attention if something shady was about to happen.
Although, they did recently change their Facebook page not to show posts by others. Clearly, something is going on. And they don't want to look bad because of it - whatever they are taking their time to do.
Eek =/ No small amount to be lost. Hopefully they issue something. That's quite a few dailes you had to play to get all that, would be a shame if that time was wasted.
Sadly though, all signs point to them going under. It's one thing if they go away for a few weeks, but without any notice or word or anything? It just doesn't look good.
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I talked to a few of the Playhem guys in Vegas, and they all had very forward-looking plans. Don't freak out yet, guys.
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Norway839 Posts
On December 06 2012 02:47 MrBitter wrote: I talked to a few of the Playhem guys in Vegas, and they all had very forward-looking plans. Don't freak out yet, guys. Good to hear! Thank you Bitter
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On December 06 2012 02:47 MrBitter wrote: I talked to a few of the Playhem guys in Vegas, and they all had very forward-looking plans. Don't freak out yet, guys.
Well that's a good sign at least! Thanks for the update bitter. Still don't know why they haven't updated us at all. . . but if they're good and coming back, that's more important.
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I hope the dailies come back soon enough, they were great for semi-pro players that just wanted to gain a little money ^.^
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All the hype about Playhem, and then...One day...It is gone. Into the Abyss. Just like any other typical no name tournaments.
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On December 06 2012 02:47 MrBitter wrote: I talked to a few of the Playhem guys in Vegas, and they all had very forward-looking plans. Don't freak out yet, guys.
then I think everything is fine.
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I knew I should have withdrawn my staggering $2.03 of prize money while I still had the chance.
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On December 06 2012 02:49 Snute wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 02:47 MrBitter wrote: I talked to a few of the Playhem guys in Vegas, and they all had very forward-looking plans. Don't freak out yet, guys. Good to hear! Thank you Bitter
Sounds like they gambled all of the players money away in Vegas hahah.
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On December 06 2012 02:47 MrBitter wrote: I talked to a few of the Playhem guys in Vegas, and they all had very forward-looking plans. Don't freak out yet, guys. Thanks for the info! Maybe things like this should be in the op?:$
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On December 06 2012 02:47 MrBitter wrote: I talked to a few of the Playhem guys in Vegas, and they all had very forward-looking plans. Don't freak out yet, guys.
If I owed a shitload of people a shitload of money that I don't have, I don't think I'd tell them, either.
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On December 06 2012 03:24 DJFaqU wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 02:47 MrBitter wrote: I talked to a few of the Playhem guys in Vegas, and they all had very forward-looking plans. Don't freak out yet, guys. If I owed a shitload of people a shitload of money that I don't have, I don't think I'd tell them, either. don't need to make comment like this, we don't know what is going on and you are accusing they don't have the money/means to find the money needed
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On December 06 2012 03:28 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 03:24 DJFaqU wrote:On December 06 2012 02:47 MrBitter wrote: I talked to a few of the Playhem guys in Vegas, and they all had very forward-looking plans. Don't freak out yet, guys. If I owed a shitload of people a shitload of money that I don't have, I don't think I'd tell them, either. don't need to make comment like this, we don't know what is going on and you are accusing they don't have the money/means to find the money needed
Maybe so, but you cant possibly deny that freezing payouts and putting the dailies on hold without any notice is very suspicious. If theres any behaviour that would warrant such comments, this would be it.
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On December 06 2012 02:58 MicroTastiC wrote: All the hype about Playhem, and then...One day...It is gone. Into the Abyss. Just like any other typical no name tournaments. Playhem isn't no name. They do a great job at what they do, if you are watching for it they are always doing something. Not to mention given the spotlight to a lot of casters that are advancing in the scene because of them.
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On December 06 2012 03:38 ThomasjServo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 02:58 MicroTastiC wrote: All the hype about Playhem, and then...One day...It is gone. Into the Abyss. Just like any other typical no name tournaments. Playhem isn't no name. They do a great job at what they do, if you are watching for it they are always doing something. Not to mention given the spotlight to a lot of casters that are advancing in the scene because of them.
The CPL(Cyber Professional League) wasn't no name either. It was sponsored by large organizations such as SteelSeries, Intel, Nvidia, and one day, it was gone. All the earnings that was promised to the winning teams over a course of a few years was never paid. And the sums were huge, amounting to hundred of thousands of dollars. I believe many people from coL and 3D wasn't paid either.
And you know Madoff's company wasn't no name either. A lot of big time investors, including politicians, celebrities, and prominent figureheads had invested in the company. And it was nothing more than a bankrupt business.
Just because some organization has a huge name and people backing it up certainly does not mean they have the funds to support what they do. And ultimately, you can see the USA, although BIG in everything is falling into a shit hole with piles of debt.
And what if a bank suddenly deny the deposits you have EARNED. wouldn't you be suspicious? Something as big as CITIBANK or HSBC certainly will not. Oh no, you certainly are wrong. If they do not have money, they can't. Not even if you sue their ass into submission back to the bronze age.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51330 Posts
You sure that "withdrawal" hasn't failed due to being to low of an amount? Most sites (poker ones come to mind) have minimal withdrawal fee's for a reason. As they get charged x amount on it.
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On December 06 2012 03:42 Pandemona wrote: You sure that "withdrawal" hasn't failed due to being to low of an amount? Most sites (poker ones come to mind) have minimal withdrawal fee's for a reason. As they get charged x amount on it.
Snute said he has over $500 which he can't withdraw on this same page.
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On December 06 2012 03:45 Greendotz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 03:42 Pandemona wrote: You sure that "withdrawal" hasn't failed due to being to low of an amount? Most sites (poker ones come to mind) have minimal withdrawal fee's for a reason. As they get charged x amount on it. Snute said he has over $500 which he can't withdraw on this same page. You sure that "withdrawal" hasn´t failed due to being to high of an amount?
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It would most definately suck if Playhem was to dissapear. It's such a good way for semi-pros to get money.
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Even if the guys told Bitter that everything is fine, it's undeniably suspicious that 1) withdrawals are frozen, 2) there was no warning that things would go on hold, and there has been no word since, and 3) comments are disabled on their Facebook page. I can't think of any good reason to do those 3 things.
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On December 06 2012 03:55 Doodsmack wrote: Even if the guys told Bitter that everything is fine, it's undeniably suspicious that 1) withdrawals are frozen, 2) there was no warning that things would go on hold, and there has been no word since, and 3) comments are disabled on their Facebook page. I can't think of any good reason to do those 3 things.
It's also not like they could avoid telling him anything if he asked in person, of course they aren't going to say " well we can't pay anything out because we went bankrupt " because they would want to avoid conflict.
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QQ I want my $50 Must suck to be a tsl Zerg right now though
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Wonder if Homeland Security thinks Playhem is under the same category as online poker and is threatening action or something.
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If they are just fixing the website then I'm really happy it was really terrible. Took ages to reload and we had to manually clear the cache. But it has been a few weeks of worry. Actually started playing in go4sc2 and some smaller random tournaments. So maybe good for the smaller ones?
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Was a matter of time lol, there was no way they broke even, or got even a quarter of what they put in for all the sc2 tournies they did..
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pretty much figured this would happen sooner or later made sure to take my money out everytime I won any amount of money when you see a business running like this and it doesn't make sense how they are turning a profit you should always be careful
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On December 06 2012 04:14 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Wonder if Homeland Security thinks Playhem is under the same category as online poker and is threatening action or something.
This would actually explain a complete blackout in all communications, and them honestly thinking everythign was running fine.
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It all fell apart when they inexplicably pushed out Katu. Suddenly less than half of the tournements were cast (eventually none were). Just a terrible, near-sighted decision by Playhem.
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It seems sad though. I hadn't played in tourneys for a while and then one day when I went to join up, they weren't there. I really liked the bronze gold tourneys because they made me feel like I was playing for something (and a won 2 bucks once)
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I think one of the reasons this has happened is that a ton of people would sign up for the tournament but when they casted them you wouldn't get that many viewers. This is very unfortunate because sometimes some well known players would sign up for these tournaments so you would think they could get a decent amount of viewers. I remember I watched them cast a playhem EU daily that was barely breaking 150 viewers.
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All these speculations and no official word from them lol.
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Didn't they make playhem poker? Maybe it caused problems.
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Can someone answer me why anyone would have even kept any money they had on there for more then a day? Wouldn't you just transfer your money on playhem straight to your paypal account once received ?
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I don't know how much this counts but I asked Steisjo (a playhem admin) in the Dreamhack twitch chat and he said that palyhem dailies would eventually come back. Also playhem ALWAYS had withdraw problems, even when everything was fine withdraw never worked on the first try.
Poker tournament are back on (to one per day at midnight), it should be a good sign.
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An alternative idea to them going under is maybe they are working on something big. Hopefully they are working on a new website release because the current website always gives me problems.
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Sure hope this isn't the worst case scenario that I think it is :/
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To be honest, I don't even care about the money I lost on this. I just like playhem because it was the 1 reliable time each day where us unfeatured streamers could have a couple of hours on the front page and gain some viewers.
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On December 06 2012 07:48 LimeNade wrote: Can someone answer me why anyone would have even kept any money they had on there for more then a day? Wouldn't you just transfer your money on playhem straight to your paypal account once received ?
At points there was a small fee for withdrawing you had to pay to paypal, plus there was something about amounts. It was also confusing to do, I ended up with a single dollar left over because it didn't withdraw the way I asked it to. At first I think a lot of people did just withdraw the day they won to get the money, but after it was seen you actually got the money, it wasn't that big of a concern anymore.
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On December 06 2012 04:43 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 04:14 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Wonder if Homeland Security thinks Playhem is under the same category as online poker and is threatening action or something. This would actually explain a complete blackout in all communications, and them honestly thinking everythign was running fine.
No, it wouldn't. Playhem would know immediately if the feds were interfering in payouts. One of two things would happen: a)the feds would inform Playhem of the disruption or b)Playhem's offices would be raided for documents, etc.
None of that, of course, is happening.
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Steisjo said that dailies will probably never come back : (
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if Dailies don't come back there will be only 1 NA tournament only once a week and thats funded by EU Zotac money. what a shame.
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On December 19 2012 07:45 VTPerfect wrote: if Dailies don't come back there will be only 1 NA tournament only once a week and thats funded by EU Zotac money. what a shame.
Yeah i agree with that.
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On December 19 2012 07:45 VTPerfect wrote: if Dailies don't come back there will be only 1 NA tournament only once a week and thats funded by EU Zotac money. what a shame. To be completely fair, it's mostly the Playhem Daily's fault that the rest of the NA Tourneys got strangled out.
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On December 19 2012 07:45 VTPerfect wrote: if Dailies don't come back there will be only 1 NA tournament only once a week and thats funded by EU Zotac money. what a shame. which is.. o.o
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On December 19 2012 07:54 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:45 VTPerfect wrote: if Dailies don't come back there will be only 1 NA tournament only once a week and thats funded by EU Zotac money. what a shame. which is.. o.o
Zotac obviously ^^ a German org that used to run 100 Euro Wc3 cups every sunday for top tier progamers but branched out into Sc2 and runs an EU cup and an NA cup. Virtually all the winners happen to be Korean though and it is winner takes all. Also i don't believe Playhem was responsible for destroying NA cups because why didnt they destroy EU cups? I think NA is responsible for destroying their own cups
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On December 19 2012 07:59 VTPerfect wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:54 zhurai wrote:On December 19 2012 07:45 VTPerfect wrote: if Dailies don't come back there will be only 1 NA tournament only once a week and thats funded by EU Zotac money. what a shame. which is.. o.o Zotac obviously ^^ a German org that used to run 100 Euro Wc3 cups every sunday for top tier progamers but branched out into Sc2 and runs an EU cup and an NA cup. Virtually all the winners happen to be Korean though and it is winner takes all. Also i don't believe Playhem was responsible for destroying NA cups because why didnt they destroy EU cups? I think NA is responsible for destroying their own cups
Well put. It's that or the organizations responsible.
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On December 19 2012 07:59 VTPerfect wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:54 zhurai wrote:On December 19 2012 07:45 VTPerfect wrote: if Dailies don't come back there will be only 1 NA tournament only once a week and thats funded by EU Zotac money. what a shame. which is.. o.o Zotac obviously ^^ a German org that used to run 100 Euro Wc3 cups every sunday for top tier progamers but branched out into Sc2 and runs an EU cup and an NA cup. Virtually all the winners happen to be Korean though and it is winner takes all. Also i don't believe Playhem was responsible for destroying NA cups because why didnt they destroy EU cups? I think NA is responsible for destroying their own cups They only started EU cups recently, that's why. Clearly they couldn't fund it and that may be part of the reason that they are dark right now.
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On December 19 2012 07:59 VTPerfect wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:54 zhurai wrote:On December 19 2012 07:45 VTPerfect wrote: if Dailies don't come back there will be only 1 NA tournament only once a week and thats funded by EU Zotac money. what a shame. which is.. o.o Zotac obviously ^^ a German org that used to run 100 Euro Wc3 cups every sunday for top tier progamers but branched out into Sc2 and runs an EU cup and an NA cup. Virtually all the winners happen to be Korean though and it is winner takes all. Also i don't believe Playhem was responsible for destroying NA cups because why didnt they destroy EU cups? I think NA is responsible for destroying their own cups
The only stuff running in EU is Zotac and ESL and we have a healthier competitive scene so we can sustain more online cups, but not many. Craft cup died not long after playhem arrived on the scene.
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Crazy, I logged in just to see what changes have actually been made to the website. Nobody's profile pics work and my cash balance is gone, leaving only my points. What the hell? I've never withdrawn my money from Playhem, lol.
EDIT: Ahh, nvm, I have to try and then fail to withdraw in order to see my balance.
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It's the circle of life, a weekly tour/daily cup dies, another one will rise ^^
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It was probably hard to break even considering the tournament only had on average 50-200 people watching the stream. I only remember it spiking to 2k viewers a few times and that was when Dragon or some other high player was playing in it.
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On December 19 2012 19:09 Nicknav wrote: It was probably hard to break even considering the tournament only had on average 50-200 people watching the stream. I only remember it spiking to 2k viewers a few times and that was when Dragon or some other high player was playing in it.
If i remember right all of the money generated by the stream goes to casters.
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On December 06 2012 03:42 MicroTastiC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 03:38 ThomasjServo wrote:On December 06 2012 02:58 MicroTastiC wrote: All the hype about Playhem, and then...One day...It is gone. Into the Abyss. Just like any other typical no name tournaments. Playhem isn't no name. They do a great job at what they do, if you are watching for it they are always doing something. Not to mention given the spotlight to a lot of casters that are advancing in the scene because of them. The CPL(Cyber Professional League) wasn't no name either. It was sponsored by large organizations such as SteelSeries, Intel, Nvidia, and one day, it was gone. All the earnings that was promised to the winning teams over a course of a few years was never paid. And the sums were huge, amounting to hundred of thousands of dollars. I believe many people from coL and 3D wasn't paid either.
CPL was only there one day and gone the next if you didn't pay attention. I posted on the CAL page and mass messaged to half a million people it would be shutting down in 3 months and that was hardly even the first sign. At least let me play the "I told you so" card on this one.
Furthermore, not to defend the bastards. But most prizes for main tournaments were paid eventually, in the same kind of period it took other big tournaments to pay in those days. It was the tournaments that bought a CPL license and then didn't get any money from their sponsors that massively robbed players. The debauchery going on at the main CPL events was way worse than people not getting paid.
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well good news, managed to get money out of the site, so if your attempting to withdraw try immediately.
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On December 19 2012 08:12 desRow wrote: It's the circle of life, a weekly tour/daily cup dies, another one will rise ^^
yeah don't you remember Wc3 NA? died 2006, Dota the game u switched 2 after Wc3 died, died too. Just looks like Sc2 is going to last even shorter time lol. but yeah i can confirm u can now withdraw which means they are getting money in again which means they might not be dead after all.
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On December 21 2012 01:32 KiF1rE wrote: well good news, managed to get money out of the site, so if your attempting to withdraw try immediately.
thanks ~^^
I just tried and I was able to withdraw my money (20$), so go ahead while you can guys!
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Yeah transaction works now, managed to get my money out^^
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On December 19 2012 08:03 NOOBALOPSE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 07:59 VTPerfect wrote:On December 19 2012 07:54 zhurai wrote:On December 19 2012 07:45 VTPerfect wrote: if Dailies don't come back there will be only 1 NA tournament only once a week and thats funded by EU Zotac money. what a shame. which is.. o.o Zotac obviously ^^ a German org that used to run 100 Euro Wc3 cups every sunday for top tier progamers but branched out into Sc2 and runs an EU cup and an NA cup. Virtually all the winners happen to be Korean though and it is winner takes all. Also i don't believe Playhem was responsible for destroying NA cups because why didnt they destroy EU cups? I think NA is responsible for destroying their own cups They only started EU cups recently, that's why. Clearly they couldn't fund it and that may be part of the reason that they are dark right now. No, they had been doing EU tournaments for over a year. I thougt they started Playhem EU and NA tournaments simultaniously.
And also, americans can play on EU tournaments aswell so I don't really see what the problem is here? o_O
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Craft cup is dead? I hadnt played it in a while but dam it was a nice cup
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On December 23 2012 05:08 VTPerfect wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 08:12 desRow wrote: It's the circle of life, a weekly tour/daily cup dies, another one will rise ^^ yeah don't you remember Wc3 NA? died 2006, Dota the game u switched 2 after Wc3 died, died too. Just looks like Sc2 is going to last even shorter time lol. but yeah i can confirm u can now withdraw which means they are getting money in again which means they might not be dead after all. Before you start spelling out doom and sadness, lets realize that the SC2 scene is enormous compared to all the scenes you mentioned.
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On December 23 2012 05:08 VTPerfect wrote: Dota the game u switched 2 after Wc3 died, died too.
Well no, not really..
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On December 23 2012 06:15 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 05:08 VTPerfect wrote:On December 19 2012 08:12 desRow wrote: It's the circle of life, a weekly tour/daily cup dies, another one will rise ^^ yeah don't you remember Wc3 NA? died 2006, Dota the game u switched 2 after Wc3 died, died too. Just looks like Sc2 is going to last even shorter time lol. but yeah i can confirm u can now withdraw which means they are getting money in again which means they might not be dead after all. Before you start spelling out doom and sadness, lets realize that the SC2 scene is enormous compared to all the scenes you mentioned.
DotA is dead... what?
@docvoc
i wouldn't be so sure about that, DotA is played by so many in china, and china has a huge population
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well, site is not working now ^^ tried to log in but i can't
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Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out
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On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out
Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone.
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On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone.
Blizzard did not kill BW. Korean viewership was not enough to sustain the sponsorship or operation of MBCGame, Wemade or Hwaseung.
Contradiction: You say lack of Blizz involvement killed War3/BW, but Blizz involvement has killed SC2. Which is it?
Finally, are LoL viewers really as valuable to sponsors as SC2? Does the existence of LoL somehow hurt SC2? Do LoL events not allow MLG, OGN and IPL to continue holding big SC2 events?
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On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone.
This is a perfect example of being wrong, at everything.
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On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Sc2 is fine. It's at a stable point. Just because it's not the most popular doesn't mean it's anywhere near dead. Kind of like saying Pepsi is dead because Coca-cola is more popular.
Also you're comparing Blizzard games, which have had games out and played competitively and still are, before Riot was even a fucking company lol.
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On December 27 2012 02:21 Solarsail wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Blizzard did not kill BW. Korean viewership was not enough to sustain the sponsorship or operation of MBCGame, Wemade or Hwaseung. Contradiction: You say lack of Blizz involvement killed War3/BW, but Blizz involvement has killed SC2. Which is it? Finally, are LoL viewers really as valuable to sponsors as SC2? Does the existence of LoL somehow hurt SC2? Do LoL events not allow MLG, OGN and IPL to continue holding big SC2 events?
The pro scene was still functioning for war3 and BW before WoL launched. Shortly after we see all the big name BW and war3 pros being forced to switch to sc2 because they had no other choice.
I don't know if LoL viewers are more valuable to sponsors but I do know that that game is growing whereas sc2 is shrinking. Take that for what you will.
You can make any argument you want about who is really to blame for SC2 shedding players/viewers like crazy, but I would point my finger at David Kim and his constant "balance" patches. The game is supposed to get better over time, not worse
On December 27 2012 02:27 haffy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Sc2 is fine. It's at a stable point. Just because it's not the most popular doesn't mean it's anywhere near dead. Kind of like saying Pepsi is dead because Coca-cola is more popular. Also you're comparing Blizzard games, which have had games out and played competitively and still are, before Riot was even a fucking company lol.
I don't see how it's stable. It's at an all time low with teams closing left and right. Your definition of stable must be pretty interesting..
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On December 27 2012 02:32 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 02:21 Solarsail wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Blizzard did not kill BW. Korean viewership was not enough to sustain the sponsorship or operation of MBCGame, Wemade or Hwaseung. Contradiction: You say lack of Blizz involvement killed War3/BW, but Blizz involvement has killed SC2. Which is it? Finally, are LoL viewers really as valuable to sponsors as SC2? Does the existence of LoL somehow hurt SC2? Do LoL events not allow MLG, OGN and IPL to continue holding big SC2 events? The pro scene was still functioning for war3 and BW before WoL launched. Shortly after we see all the big name BW and war3 pros being forced to switch to sc2 because they had no other choice. I don't know if LoL viewers are more valuable to sponsors but I do know that that game is growing whereas sc2 is shrinking. Take that for what you will. You can make any argument you want about who is really to blame for SC2 shedding players/viewers like crazy, but I would point my finger at David Kim and his constant "balance" patches. The game is supposed to get better over time, not worse Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 02:27 haffy wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Sc2 is fine. It's at a stable point. Just because it's not the most popular doesn't mean it's anywhere near dead. Kind of like saying Pepsi is dead because Coca-cola is more popular. Also you're comparing Blizzard games, which have had games out and played competitively and still are, before Riot was even a fucking company lol. I don't see how it's stable. It's at an all time low with teams closing left and right. Your definition of stable must be pretty interesting..
Company's die in stable climates all the time. If they aren't run well it doesn't matter how much potential money there is. Also it's at an all time low, which is predictable to anyone with an oz of business knowledge. It isn't as if it's anything anyone running tournaments and teams are shocked about.
I don't really understand why you're even talking about any of this lol. You've clearly shown your lack of understanding in these areas, yet you go around speaking as if you were an expert lol.
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On December 27 2012 02:42 haffy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 02:32 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 27 2012 02:21 Solarsail wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Blizzard did not kill BW. Korean viewership was not enough to sustain the sponsorship or operation of MBCGame, Wemade or Hwaseung. Contradiction: You say lack of Blizz involvement killed War3/BW, but Blizz involvement has killed SC2. Which is it? Finally, are LoL viewers really as valuable to sponsors as SC2? Does the existence of LoL somehow hurt SC2? Do LoL events not allow MLG, OGN and IPL to continue holding big SC2 events? The pro scene was still functioning for war3 and BW before WoL launched. Shortly after we see all the big name BW and war3 pros being forced to switch to sc2 because they had no other choice. I don't know if LoL viewers are more valuable to sponsors but I do know that that game is growing whereas sc2 is shrinking. Take that for what you will. You can make any argument you want about who is really to blame for SC2 shedding players/viewers like crazy, but I would point my finger at David Kim and his constant "balance" patches. The game is supposed to get better over time, not worse On December 27 2012 02:27 haffy wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Sc2 is fine. It's at a stable point. Just because it's not the most popular doesn't mean it's anywhere near dead. Kind of like saying Pepsi is dead because Coca-cola is more popular. Also you're comparing Blizzard games, which have had games out and played competitively and still are, before Riot was even a fucking company lol. I don't see how it's stable. It's at an all time low with teams closing left and right. Your definition of stable must be pretty interesting.. Company's die in stable climates all the time. If they aren't run well it doesn't matter how much potential money there is. Also it's at an all time low, which is predictable to anyone with an oz of business knowledge. It isn't as if it's anything anyone running tournaments and teams are shocked about. I don't really understand why you're even talking about any of this lol. You've clearly shown your lack of understanding in these areas, yet you go around speaking as if you were an expert lol.
You just said sc2 is fine and that it's in a stable spot, now you bring up "companies die in stable climates all the time". Then you tell me I don't know what im talking about and then don't explain anything at all.
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On December 27 2012 02:49 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 02:42 haffy wrote:On December 27 2012 02:32 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 27 2012 02:21 Solarsail wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Blizzard did not kill BW. Korean viewership was not enough to sustain the sponsorship or operation of MBCGame, Wemade or Hwaseung. Contradiction: You say lack of Blizz involvement killed War3/BW, but Blizz involvement has killed SC2. Which is it? Finally, are LoL viewers really as valuable to sponsors as SC2? Does the existence of LoL somehow hurt SC2? Do LoL events not allow MLG, OGN and IPL to continue holding big SC2 events? The pro scene was still functioning for war3 and BW before WoL launched. Shortly after we see all the big name BW and war3 pros being forced to switch to sc2 because they had no other choice. I don't know if LoL viewers are more valuable to sponsors but I do know that that game is growing whereas sc2 is shrinking. Take that for what you will. You can make any argument you want about who is really to blame for SC2 shedding players/viewers like crazy, but I would point my finger at David Kim and his constant "balance" patches. The game is supposed to get better over time, not worse On December 27 2012 02:27 haffy wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Sc2 is fine. It's at a stable point. Just because it's not the most popular doesn't mean it's anywhere near dead. Kind of like saying Pepsi is dead because Coca-cola is more popular. Also you're comparing Blizzard games, which have had games out and played competitively and still are, before Riot was even a fucking company lol. I don't see how it's stable. It's at an all time low with teams closing left and right. Your definition of stable must be pretty interesting.. Company's die in stable climates all the time. If they aren't run well it doesn't matter how much potential money there is. Also it's at an all time low, which is predictable to anyone with an oz of business knowledge. It isn't as if it's anything anyone running tournaments and teams are shocked about. I don't really understand why you're even talking about any of this lol. You've clearly shown your lack of understanding in these areas, yet you go around speaking as if you were an expert lol. You just said sc2 is fine and that it's in a stable spot, now you bring up "companies die in stable climates all the time". Then you tell me I don't know what im talking about and then don't explain anything at all.
Can't teach a blind man to see.
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On December 27 2012 02:51 haffy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 02:49 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 27 2012 02:42 haffy wrote:On December 27 2012 02:32 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 27 2012 02:21 Solarsail wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Blizzard did not kill BW. Korean viewership was not enough to sustain the sponsorship or operation of MBCGame, Wemade or Hwaseung. Contradiction: You say lack of Blizz involvement killed War3/BW, but Blizz involvement has killed SC2. Which is it? Finally, are LoL viewers really as valuable to sponsors as SC2? Does the existence of LoL somehow hurt SC2? Do LoL events not allow MLG, OGN and IPL to continue holding big SC2 events? The pro scene was still functioning for war3 and BW before WoL launched. Shortly after we see all the big name BW and war3 pros being forced to switch to sc2 because they had no other choice. I don't know if LoL viewers are more valuable to sponsors but I do know that that game is growing whereas sc2 is shrinking. Take that for what you will. You can make any argument you want about who is really to blame for SC2 shedding players/viewers like crazy, but I would point my finger at David Kim and his constant "balance" patches. The game is supposed to get better over time, not worse On December 27 2012 02:27 haffy wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Sc2 is fine. It's at a stable point. Just because it's not the most popular doesn't mean it's anywhere near dead. Kind of like saying Pepsi is dead because Coca-cola is more popular. Also you're comparing Blizzard games, which have had games out and played competitively and still are, before Riot was even a fucking company lol. I don't see how it's stable. It's at an all time low with teams closing left and right. Your definition of stable must be pretty interesting.. Company's die in stable climates all the time. If they aren't run well it doesn't matter how much potential money there is. Also it's at an all time low, which is predictable to anyone with an oz of business knowledge. It isn't as if it's anything anyone running tournaments and teams are shocked about. I don't really understand why you're even talking about any of this lol. You've clearly shown your lack of understanding in these areas, yet you go around speaking as if you were an expert lol. You just said sc2 is fine and that it's in a stable spot, now you bring up "companies die in stable climates all the time". Then you tell me I don't know what im talking about and then don't explain anything at all. Can't teach a blind man to see.
There is nothing for you to teach, you're just some random troll that tried to sound smart and ended up completely contradicting himself. If you don't actually explain your points then how can anyone take your opinion seriously.
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On December 27 2012 02:53 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 02:51 haffy wrote:On December 27 2012 02:49 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 27 2012 02:42 haffy wrote:On December 27 2012 02:32 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 27 2012 02:21 Solarsail wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Blizzard did not kill BW. Korean viewership was not enough to sustain the sponsorship or operation of MBCGame, Wemade or Hwaseung. Contradiction: You say lack of Blizz involvement killed War3/BW, but Blizz involvement has killed SC2. Which is it? Finally, are LoL viewers really as valuable to sponsors as SC2? Does the existence of LoL somehow hurt SC2? Do LoL events not allow MLG, OGN and IPL to continue holding big SC2 events? The pro scene was still functioning for war3 and BW before WoL launched. Shortly after we see all the big name BW and war3 pros being forced to switch to sc2 because they had no other choice. I don't know if LoL viewers are more valuable to sponsors but I do know that that game is growing whereas sc2 is shrinking. Take that for what you will. You can make any argument you want about who is really to blame for SC2 shedding players/viewers like crazy, but I would point my finger at David Kim and his constant "balance" patches. The game is supposed to get better over time, not worse On December 27 2012 02:27 haffy wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Sc2 is fine. It's at a stable point. Just because it's not the most popular doesn't mean it's anywhere near dead. Kind of like saying Pepsi is dead because Coca-cola is more popular. Also you're comparing Blizzard games, which have had games out and played competitively and still are, before Riot was even a fucking company lol. I don't see how it's stable. It's at an all time low with teams closing left and right. Your definition of stable must be pretty interesting.. Company's die in stable climates all the time. If they aren't run well it doesn't matter how much potential money there is. Also it's at an all time low, which is predictable to anyone with an oz of business knowledge. It isn't as if it's anything anyone running tournaments and teams are shocked about. I don't really understand why you're even talking about any of this lol. You've clearly shown your lack of understanding in these areas, yet you go around speaking as if you were an expert lol. You just said sc2 is fine and that it's in a stable spot, now you bring up "companies die in stable climates all the time". Then you tell me I don't know what im talking about and then don't explain anything at all. Can't teach a blind man to see. There is nothing for you to teach, you're just some random troll that tried to sound smart and ended up completely contradicting himself.
You weren't even aware you raised the point about company's, not me lol.
Anyway I'm done arguing with you.
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On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone.
Yeah, I don't think SC2 will ever get the 2011 stream numbers again, but I can at least hope hots will fix SC2
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On December 23 2012 06:07 TheMooseHeed wrote: Craft cup is dead? I hadnt played it in a while but dam it was a nice cup It has been dead for the longest time ever.
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Norway25710 Posts
On December 27 2012 03:12 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Yeah, I don't think SC2 will ever get the 2011 stream numbers again, but I can at least hope hots will fix SC2 You are aware that events like IPL5 broke records once again, with both SC2 and LoL streams? THe reason numbers are lower is that there are so many tournaments. Back in '11 there were fewer, so everyone tuned in when it was live. Now, people wont watch all events, but the viewer count is still really really high, just more spread out.
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On December 27 2012 03:31 KristofferAG wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 03:12 nomyx wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Yeah, I don't think SC2 will ever get the 2011 stream numbers again, but I can at least hope hots will fix SC2 You are aware that events like IPL5 broke records once again, with both SC2 and LoL streams? THe reason numbers are lower is that there are so many tournaments. Back in '11 there were fewer, so everyone tuned in when it was live. Now, people wont watch all events, but the viewer count is still really really high, just more spread out. That's been confirmed by a lot of people who are involved in the tournaments as well. It's really annoying when people are saying 'Guys, Dreamhack only had 60k viewers in the finals...SC2 IS DEAD!' When in fact there is another tournament going on at the same time, and another 3 enormous tournaments in the next few weeks. In comparison, how many tournaments does LoL have every year?
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On December 27 2012 03:31 KristofferAG wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 03:12 nomyx wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Yeah, I don't think SC2 will ever get the 2011 stream numbers again, but I can at least hope hots will fix SC2 You are aware that events like IPL5 broke records once again, with both SC2 and LoL streams? THe reason numbers are lower is that there are so many tournaments. Back in '11 there were fewer, so everyone tuned in when it was live. Now, people wont watch all events, but the viewer count is still really really high, just more spread out.
Indeed, SC2 is doing terrific right now. That is why GSL gave out $1,320,008 to prize winners in 2011 and only $842,412 in 2012.
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On December 27 2012 03:56 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 03:31 KristofferAG wrote:On December 27 2012 03:12 nomyx wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Yeah, I don't think SC2 will ever get the 2011 stream numbers again, but I can at least hope hots will fix SC2 You are aware that events like IPL5 broke records once again, with both SC2 and LoL streams? THe reason numbers are lower is that there are so many tournaments. Back in '11 there were fewer, so everyone tuned in when it was live. Now, people wont watch all events, but the viewer count is still really really high, just more spread out. Indeed, SC2 is doing terrific right now. That is why GSL gave out $1,320,008 to prize winners in 2011 and only $842,412 in 2012. That's also why Blizzard have started hosting tournaments with $100k first place prizes + what it pays out to people who win the continental and national tournaments. SC2 is dead guys.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 27 2012 03:56 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 03:31 KristofferAG wrote:On December 27 2012 03:12 nomyx wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Yeah, I don't think SC2 will ever get the 2011 stream numbers again, but I can at least hope hots will fix SC2 You are aware that events like IPL5 broke records once again, with both SC2 and LoL streams? THe reason numbers are lower is that there are so many tournaments. Back in '11 there were fewer, so everyone tuned in when it was live. Now, people wont watch all events, but the viewer count is still really really high, just more spread out. Indeed, SC2 is doing terrific right now. That is why GSL gave out $1,320,008 to prize winners in 2011 and only $842,412 in 2012.
In that case, WCS would like a word with you. Funny how a game that is dying has a tournament series worth several hundred thousand dollars this year, compared to Blizzcon's $85.000 last year.
Indeed, SC2 is doing terrific right now. Might be the reason why MLG, this year, handed out give-or-take $400.000 in prize money as opposed to $190.000 in 2011. Am I doing this right?
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On December 27 2012 04:19 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 03:56 nomyx wrote:On December 27 2012 03:31 KristofferAG wrote:On December 27 2012 03:12 nomyx wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Yeah, I don't think SC2 will ever get the 2011 stream numbers again, but I can at least hope hots will fix SC2 You are aware that events like IPL5 broke records once again, with both SC2 and LoL streams? THe reason numbers are lower is that there are so many tournaments. Back in '11 there were fewer, so everyone tuned in when it was live. Now, people wont watch all events, but the viewer count is still really really high, just more spread out. Indeed, SC2 is doing terrific right now. That is why GSL gave out $1,320,008 to prize winners in 2011 and only $842,412 in 2012. In that case, WCS would like a word with you. Funny how a game that is dying has a tournament series worth several hundred thousand dollars this year, compared to Blizzcon's $85.000 last year. Indeed, SC2 is doing terrific right now. Might be the reason why MLG, this year, handed out give-or-take $400.000 in prize money as opposed to $190.000 in 2011. Am I doing this right?
Unfortunately the stream numbers are down.
On December 27 2012 03:58 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 03:56 nomyx wrote:On December 27 2012 03:31 KristofferAG wrote:On December 27 2012 03:12 nomyx wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Yeah, I don't think SC2 will ever get the 2011 stream numbers again, but I can at least hope hots will fix SC2 You are aware that events like IPL5 broke records once again, with both SC2 and LoL streams? THe reason numbers are lower is that there are so many tournaments. Back in '11 there were fewer, so everyone tuned in when it was live. Now, people wont watch all events, but the viewer count is still really really high, just more spread out. Indeed, SC2 is doing terrific right now. That is why GSL gave out $1,320,008 to prize winners in 2011 and only $842,412 in 2012. That's also why Blizzard have started hosting tournaments with $100k first place prizes + what it pays out to people who win the continental and national tournaments. SC2 is dead guys.
Blizzard needs to advertise their games. It shows people that they are interested in their game. They did the same for WoW as an esport.
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No...the stream numbers aren't down. We have a massive, enormous oversaturation of tournaments at the moment. If you add up all the stream numbers for every tournament for 2011, and do the same for 2012, you get higher for 2012. That's plainly the truth. And your point about Blizzard needing to advertise their game, while being a valid one, is in no way relevant to what I said.
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On December 27 2012 03:56 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 03:31 KristofferAG wrote:On December 27 2012 03:12 nomyx wrote:On December 27 2012 02:17 AnomalySC2 wrote:On December 26 2012 23:36 nomyx wrote: Not surprised tbh. Wings of Liberty is at it's lowest point right now in terms of playership and viewership. Hots will surely change it, but for a company like playham it's not worth it to stick around these next few months. Not until hots comes out Eh, I wouldn't count on it. Not with David Kim at the helm. I think the only current flourishing esport is LoL. Its popularity is massive in and outside of korea, and it dominates the viewership numbers on streams. Even just one TSM player gathers over 20k viewers which rivals even full blown major sc2 tournaments. Blizzard not only killed sc2, but they killed BW and War3 as well which they should feel ashamed of. They weren't involved barely at all with the esports community of war3 or BW, and then they come along with SC2 and try to control everything so that they can make a long term profit off it and in the process they ruin it for everyone. Yeah, I don't think SC2 will ever get the 2011 stream numbers again, but I can at least hope hots will fix SC2 You are aware that events like IPL5 broke records once again, with both SC2 and LoL streams? THe reason numbers are lower is that there are so many tournaments. Back in '11 there were fewer, so everyone tuned in when it was live. Now, people wont watch all events, but the viewer count is still really really high, just more spread out. Indeed, SC2 is doing terrific right now. That is why GSL gave out $1,320,008 to prize winners in 2011 and only $842,412 in 2012.
In terms of main tournament, there were 5 seasons in 2012 and 7 (?) in 2011. This comes out to roughly the same amount per tournament, although I dunno what the effect of the special events would be on these numbers.
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e.e the conversation has pretty much nothing to do with the OP.
Back on subject now, is playhem planning on hosting daily tournaments ever again? I know it's been said by Mr.Bitter that they have plans in the future, but it hasn't been clear on whether or not there will be small tournaments, as I think it was really good for lesser known players that wanted to make a name for themselves
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On December 27 2012 06:15 kollin wrote: No...the stream numbers aren't down. We have a massive, enormous oversaturation of tournaments at the moment. If you add up all the stream numbers for every tournament for 2011, and do the same for 2012, you get higher for 2012. That's plainly the truth. And your point about Blizzard needing to advertise their game, while being a valid one, is in no way relevant to what I said.
I'd like to see the numbers please.
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and id like to see the thread going the way it should: playhem related
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The only way to make this thread any worst would be to start some balance whine, anyone?
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On December 27 2012 06:36 crbox wrote: The only way to make this thread any worst would be to start some balance whine, anyone? Uh no thanks. Great post though, thank you for your contribution.
Personally I hope Playhem comes back stronger than ever. I really enjoyed jumping in a random daily or weekly tourney just for fun on a night that I wasn't doing anything else. I'm a lowly diamond so never WON, but if I could make it past a master player it was very rewarding for me personal even though no monetary reward.
While I'd love to see blizz run ladder tourneys or what-have-you. I'd really like to see a strong showing from some of these 3rd parties.
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On December 27 Blizzard needs to advertise their games. It shows people that they are interested in their game. They did the same for WoW as an esport.
WoW is a mainstream game. Starcraft is not. It is a waste of time to do any time of mainstream advertising for SC2 in North America. MAYBE Sweden, Germany, and China. DEFINITELY South Korea.
I'd rather have Blizzard spends their enormous resources on GomTV.Net and other niche market forms of advertising.
i hope Playhem returns!
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Surprised (and a bit worried) there is still no official response or update from Playhem on this. Mr. Bitter's comment/update is pretty much meaningless at this point ("forward-thinking plans" - lol?). These guys owe people MONEY. Talk is extremely cheap at this point. The people they owe money to are all waiting to hear when they are getting paid. If that money no longer exists, they need to make a statement about it, not go into hiding and hope that everyone just forgets.
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On December 27 2012 07:12 rhs408 wrote: Surprised (and a bit worried) there is still no official response or update from Playhem on this. Mr. Bitter's comment/update is pretty much meaningless at this point ("forward-thinking plans" - lol?). These guys owe people MONEY. Talk is extremely cheap at this point. The people they owe money to are all waiting to hear when they are getting paid. If that money no longer exists, they need to make a statement about it, not go into hiding and hope that everyone just forgets.
they have been paying out over the past few days, Though still no update or anything.
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Hmm, stuff at an online job gets neglected over the holidays, and there is a rush to make a thread. Use common sense until you actually know whats happening.
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I got my 55 dollars aswell
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I'm really curious what Playhem is up to. I hope cool things are coming!
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On December 27 2012 06:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 Blizzard needs to advertise their games. It shows people that they are interested in their game. They did the same for WoW as an esport. WoW is a mainstream game. Starcraft is not. It is a waste of time to do any time of mainstream advertising for SC2 in North America. MAYBE Sweden, Germany, and China. DEFINITELY South Korea.I'd rather have Blizzard spends their enormous resources on GomTV.Net and other niche market forms of advertising. i hope Playhem returns! For what? Pretty sure most of them know about sc2 already, but it isn't as good and exciting as BW so most are not interested because there is still BW to play and watch and they have LoL now that have taken over completely.
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Norway839 Posts
I still can't withdraw anything. Seems to be down again.
Appreciated if anyone could PM me as soon as we have another confirmed completed transaction
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On December 27 2012 07:38 Risljaninasim wrote: I'm really curious what Playhem is up to. I hope cool things are coming! I give it till the new year, makes sense to start 2013 off big
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The only way to make this thread any worst would be to start some balance whine, anyone?
Uh no thanks. Great post though, thank you for your contribution.[/quote]
Huh if you're able to scroll up three posts above the one you made, I actually made my statement.
Congrats on being unable to read though.
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On December 27 2012 07:29 NoobSkills wrote: Hmm, stuff at an online job gets neglected over the holidays, and there is a rush to make a thread. Use common sense until you actually know whats happening. The thread was made at the start of December, and the Dailies and other money tournaments had been out of action for a few weeks beforehand. Feel free to continue accusing people of stuff with no basis whatsoever though.
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On December 27 2012 08:32 oGsTrueSmug wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 07:29 NoobSkills wrote: Hmm, stuff at an online job gets neglected over the holidays, and there is a rush to make a thread. Use common sense until you actually know whats happening. The thread was made at the start of December, and the Dailies and other money tournaments had been out of action for a few weeks beforehand. Feel free to continue accusing people of stuff with no basis whatsoever though.
would just like to add as well, the whole concern over this is that playhem has always been incredibly vocal and active prior to what is going on over the past month or so. Things that stand out as weird, is the silence about everything, the fact that payments wouldnt work, coinciding with the community manager at playhem resigning due to the lack of communication and everything stopping(from what I know) such as dailies and all community interaction.
The weird part is that usually when tournament sites go under, they usually just "POOF" vanish into thin air, And as I posted a few days ago to bump this thread about payments being paid out again was also weird. as they seem to be honoring everything earned, However the silence about the site continues and various things have been added or improved on the UI of the site. The lack of an official statement, We only have roughly a month old statement from a caster that talked to probably the people that have resigned over the past month. And we know nothing more, No rumors, absolutely nothing is known as to what is happening.
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On December 27 2012 07:44 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 06:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On December 27 Blizzard needs to advertise their games. It shows people that they are interested in their game. They did the same for WoW as an esport. WoW is a mainstream game. Starcraft is not. It is a waste of time to do any time of mainstream advertising for SC2 in North America. MAYBE Sweden, Germany, and China. DEFINITELY South Korea.I'd rather have Blizzard spends their enormous resources on GomTV.Net and other niche market forms of advertising. i hope Playhem returns! For what? Pretty sure most of them know about sc2 already, but it isn't as good and exciting as BW so most are not interested because there is still BW to play and watch and they have LoL now that have taken over completely.
Do you understand how advertising works?
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Update has been posted, please read this thread before making any more comments here
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