This summer Discovery Channel Canada traveled to Korea to film segments for this season of Daily Planet. Dario happened to be in country and the time so it lined up perfectly for a segment we had been planning with them!
(you'll have to excuse the few hero/puma clips while he's playing. Hollywood (Toronto) editing blah blah)
Turn off adblock of it wont work
edit: seems it is region locked in Europe. Hopefully someone is nice and gets an alternate source...
I believe Discovery videos are region locked so that people outside NA cannot view them. I learned this a long time ago when trying to view Mythbusters clips. Probably not a very good decision by them.
That's hilarious, the researchers originally could not even fathom someone playing as badly as the reporter! I wonder what player pool they're drawing from.
Exaggeration at its finest... I laughed when the reporter broke the script. It's your first time playing SC2. What'd you expect? The scientist made it sound like the reporter is handicapped. Bad video. Good for SC2 and TLO.
On December 05 2012 02:20 twoxmachine wrote: That's hilarious, the researchers originally could not even fathom someone playing as badly as the reporter! I wonder what player pool they're drawing from.
If they're the same researchers I'm thinking of there's actually a thread here somewhere.
That was neat though. It reminds me of when my brother first played.
Haha that was pretty funny, It seemed like the results for learning cognitive expertise were pretty lame and extremely obvious but I can't complain that I get to see TLO and SC2 on Discovery
I was wondering why they put shots of HerO vs Puma and even Zenio, when i'm sure Dario has lots of exciting replays he could have pulled up for the cameras... Oh well
Sorry, there was an error We are experiencing temporary difficulties downloading your lineup. Please wait another few seconds and try again if you're still having problems.
Thanks for your patience.
I have gotten this error multiple times now after I got the ads. Is there another place us Euro's can watch this?
On December 05 2012 02:18 Kilby wrote: I believe Discovery videos are region locked so that people outside NA cannot view them. I learned this a long time ago when trying to view Mythbusters clips. Probably not a very good decision by them.
Like I said, it is region locked. You cannot watch it unless you're in NA.
Wow 600 APM, must have really been improving a lot lately XD
Anyway it figures that some things would sound ridiculous / exaggerated to us, but it sounds like it would get the point across to non-gamers. It was a pretty cool feature, hopefully Starcraft gets more recognition like that int he future!
I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
On December 05 2012 03:06 Chronos. wrote: Wow 600 APM, must have really been improving a lot lately XD
Anyway it figures that some things would sound ridiculous / exaggerated to us, but it sounds like it would get the point across to non-gamers. It was a pretty cool feature, hopefully Starcraft gets more recognition like that int he future!
600 APM is in real-time, not Blizzard Time. When you check your APM in a replay that's not actually your APM in real time.
That was....Hilarious. That was actually some really good coverage; it wasn't about about e-sports but instead what benefits gaming (SC2) provide to people. Props to Daily planet on doing this and congrats to the superhuman TLO
Kind of reminds me of a Nat Geo documentary that followed, Xellos I think it was. Giving him and and an amateur a Ct scan before and after a game of BW to see which areas were active. I love little things like this.
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
- TLO is one of the world's top players and has 600 APM - The reporter never played SC before, he played as well as can be expected - Shots of the team itself are mostly from MLGs, ingame shots are mostly from DH - Mark Blair of Simon Fraser Uni takes an interest in SC2 and learning, apparently has his students play sc2 - Reporter broke the analysis script the prof and his team came up with because he wasn't good enough - Makes a classic noob mistake and almost destroys his own rax
And I guess it is a good thing to keep in mind that whenever we are talking about progamers, no matter if they are close to the absolute global top or just national top or just somewhere around there, they are still within the same 1% or even less when compared to the rest of the population on this planet. So for this thing, you could pretty much choose any pro player that speaks english well and it would work. Not necessarily as well as it did with TLO, but it would still work.
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
On December 05 2012 04:22 Thienan567 wrote: For those of you who are missing out,
- TLO is one of the world's top players and has 600 APM - The reporter never played SC before, he played as well as can be expected - Shots of the team itself are mostly from MLGs, ingame shots are mostly from DH - Mark Blair of Simon Fraser Uni takes an interest in SC2 and learning, apparently has his students play sc2 - Reporter broke the analysis script the prof and his team came up with because he wasn't good enough - Makes a classic noob mistake and almost destroys his own rax
Also lol at 5:50
Just in case you were trying to be sarcastic about it, yes, TLO is actually one of the world's top players at SC2. The APM thing though is a bit silly and I would have hoped that TLO had said that APM is really not that important to be good at SC2. But I guess since generally it doesn't hurt either he didn't say that.
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
On December 05 2012 04:22 Thienan567 wrote: For those of you who are missing out,
- TLO is one of the world's top players and has 600 APM - The reporter never played SC before, he played as well as can be expected - Shots of the team itself are mostly from MLGs, ingame shots are mostly from DH - Mark Blair of Simon Fraser Uni takes an interest in SC2 and learning, apparently has his students play sc2 - Reporter broke the analysis script the prof and his team came up with because he wasn't good enough - Makes a classic noob mistake and almost destroys his own rax
Also lol at 5:50
Just in case you were trying to be sarcastic about it, yes, TLO is actually one of the world's top players at SC2. The APM thing though is a bit silly and I would have hoped that TLO had said that APM is really not that important to be good at SC2. But I guess since generally it doesn't hurt either he didn't say that.
Wasn't really, just pointing out what the video said. I don't know about 600 apm but I'd say TLO is a top player. Some people would say that top players are only people who have won code S or something but I'm not one of them. :D
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
OK, you did name five people. That is well done and I honestly give you points for that.
But then, considering that your analysis are based on the fact that TLO was 9th in a single national tournament that means that you are basing your whole analysis on a single tournament. Yes, it is still a valid point that TLO is probably not the best german out there but so far the rest of the players you mention have not had good results in several tournaments which leads me to believe that they are not at that top level yet. Since TLO, Socke, Hasuobs and Darkforce are such a powerful and well named quartet that means that any newcomer would have to get some pretty good results to overthrow any of them. But to be honest, the fame of that quartet doesn't really remove the fact that someone who is coming from behind might actually be better as a player. So you have a good point. I guess germany is such a big country that it is actually too easy to forget how many good german players there actually are.
But I still would put him ahead of Darkforce or Hasuobs at the moment.
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill.
On December 05 2012 04:22 Thienan567 wrote: For those of you who are missing out,
- TLO is one of the world's top players and has 600 APM - The reporter never played SC before, he played as well as can be expected - Shots of the team itself are mostly from MLGs, ingame shots are mostly from DH - Mark Blair of Simon Fraser Uni takes an interest in SC2 and learning, apparently has his students play sc2 - Reporter broke the analysis script the prof and his team came up with because he wasn't good enough - Makes a classic noob mistake and almost destroys his own rax
Also lol at 5:50
More than that, It displays that TLO has communication skills and would be a great resource to tap for TL if and when he retires. The guy is likeable and has screen presence.
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill.
TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players.
Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German.
It's like "E.T." but with Arnold Schwarzenegger playing the noob and TLO playing the alien who is being chased by NASA scientists who want to experiment on him!
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill.
TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players.
Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German.
Actually, they are becoming really really good now. I remember Hasu losing to Krass several times lately.
How cool would it be to be part of that study?! I wonder if the participants are being paid to play O_o! Anyways, awesome segment. Congrats TLO! Represent.
On December 05 2012 07:02 Clout308 wrote: How cool would it be to be part of that study?!
You CAN be part of the study. SkillCraft is an ongoing research program investigating cognitive motor expertise through the analysis of game data. Our scientific paper is now out for review, and we're working on more projects (and awaiting results from grant applications).
Our next project is a longitudinal study were players who have saved a large percentage of their replays can submit all their games to us for analysis. We're planning to be ready to collect data in February, before the HoTS release, so save your replays!
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill.
TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players.
Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German.
Actually, they are becoming really really good now. I remember Hasu losing to Krass several times lately.
I'm sure they could be improving, but still, the point was that TLO is a pretty high-tier foreigner. WCS Germany isn't the only viewpoint, and while DH Winter isn't too, you have to admit he's been doing a lot better recently; while KraSs may be getting better, I doubt he'll be able to compete on an international level like TLO does until atleast 2013.
That was a pretty cool segment. I like that the focus on it was mostly the cognitive science research and what it means to be studying these top gamers.
It's also amusing to me how on the same episode (in part I) is a segment on the sodium ball experiment here at my university. I would have never have found out about it if it were not for the TLO segment.
I pitched this to Daily Planet when I was there as an intern in May. I worked hard with another researcher to set everything up, but left before I knew if it went through. I'm so happy to see it out there. Thanks Dario and everyone at TL.
A note, daily planet is region blocked to Europe and parts of Asia. Kennigit, if you try to contact the producer who worked with you or perhaps I could try, we might be able to get a permanent link made that isn't blocked.
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill.
TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players.
Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German.
Actually, they are becoming really really good now. I remember Hasu losing to Krass several times lately.
I'm sure they could be improving, but still, the point was that TLO is a pretty high-tier foreigner. WCS Germany isn't the only viewpoint, and while DH Winter isn't too, you have to admit he's been doing a lot better recently; while KraSs may be getting better, I doubt he'll be able to compete on an international level like TLO does until atleast 2013.
Hahaha, a prof from SFU! I would've been in his class next semester if it wasn't full baaw.
Great feature. I'm glad it was so in-depth and didn't make it seem kind of silly (like XellOs' documentary in '05 for NatGeo.. some parts were fine but the 'GAZILLION FIGHTER JETS' killed me... but then again that was a full-length documentary seven years ago and whatnot).
Yeah! That's great exposure, and TLO looks as good as always! I hope it brings more people to sc2. On a side note, I always wondered when cognitive scientist were going to take a peek in the progamer fields, glad they finally began to do so!
I wanted to make sure that it was treated with respect when I pitched it. Also for anyone interested here are some stills from the shoot Alan put up on his facebook page
This one works Direct link to their stream of it, just some ads first.
Thanks a lot, I was pissing myself laughing at the whole "broke their script" and "we discovered there's players worse than the worst people we have" parts.
It really seemed like a very positive and pleasant news piece. It certainly wasn't focused on promoting SC2, but it definitely presented it in a positive light.
Loved it, what did he mean exactly by things are important at low levels that aren't at higher levels? I agree that you shouldn't focus/practice what the pros practice and focus on because there are far more important things for low level players.. but everything a low level player SHOULD be trying to develop is something a pro should be keeping finely tuned. (pylons/probes etc)
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill.
TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players.
Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German.
after watching his code A qualification games, I just can't say he is a good player at all. He tried to do cool strategies like nydus and roach drop against a mass thor terran and lost completely. he won a few games because of his scouting (clever scouting for proxy) and base trades. I don't remember he won any by standard games at all
Nice view on Starcraft, a bit naive and sketchy tho, as with the supraconductor stuff that followed. Nonetheless good publicity for our favorite game and TLO.
On December 05 2012 07:02 Clout308 wrote: How cool would it be to be part of that study?!
You CAN be part of the study. SkillCraft is an ongoing research program investigating cognitive motor expertise through the analysis of game data. Our scientific paper is now out for review, and we're working on more projects (and awaiting results from grant applications).
Our next project is a longitudinal study were players who have saved a large percentage of their replays can submit all their games to us for analysis. We're planning to be ready to collect data in February, before the HoTS release, so save your replays!
I have like 400 replays of myself saved from my progression from gold to diamond (more to come I hope maybe that could be useful. Can't wait to see the future studies :D
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill.
TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players.
Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German.
Actually, they are becoming really really good now. I remember Hasu losing to Krass several times lately.
I'm sure they could be improving, but still, the point was that TLO is a pretty high-tier foreigner. WCS Germany isn't the only viewpoint, and while DH Winter isn't too, you have to admit he's been doing a lot better recently; while KraSs may be getting better, I doubt he'll be able to compete on an international level like TLO does until atleast 2013.
I stand corrected, but honestly, Multiplay UK isn't a "huge international tournament"; it's minor at best. That doesn't change anything about competing on an international level.
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill.
TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players.
Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German.
after watching his code A qualification games, I just can't say he is a good player at all. He tried to do cool strategies like nydus and roach drop against a mass thor terran and lost completely. he won a few games because of his scouting (clever scouting for proxy) and base trades. I don't remember he won any by standard games at all
Code A? The only time a foreigner wins in code A is if it's a fluke or occasionally NaNiwa; by your logic, people like ThorZaIN aren't good either.
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill.
TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players.
Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German.
Actually, they are becoming really really good now. I remember Hasu losing to Krass several times lately.
I'm sure they could be improving, but still, the point was that TLO is a pretty high-tier foreigner. WCS Germany isn't the only viewpoint, and while DH Winter isn't too, you have to admit he's been doing a lot better recently; while KraSs may be getting better, I doubt he'll be able to compete on an international level like TLO does until atleast 2013.
I stand corrected, but honestly, Multiplay UK isn't a "huge international tournament"; it's minor at best. That doesn't change anything about competing on an international level.
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill.
TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players.
Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German.
after watching his code A qualification games, I just can't say he is a good player at all. He tried to do cool strategies like nydus and roach drop against a mass thor terran and lost completely. he won a few games because of his scouting (clever scouting for proxy) and base trades. I don't remember he won any by standard games at all
Code A? The only time a foreigner wins in code A is if it's a fluke or occasionally NaNiwa; by your logic, people like ThorZaIN aren't good either.
I think it's regional, people outside NA can't see it I think.. All people that I can see comment it does not work, are EU people. it does not work for me either.
Just because youre competing internationally doesnt mean that you're better skillwise. TLO can compete there because he has a funny personality and therefore a huge fanbase that wants to see his fancy strats, gets direct invites or is able to travel to the open bracket because he has a team that pays for his travel expenses and he has commited himself to be a fulltime pro gamer.
That has nothing to do with skill and its incredibly hard for unknown players to make it to international tournaments. You need to qualify for the event which isnt that easy compared to direct invites or open brackets (tlo failed yesterday in IEM Katowice qualification stage 1 against fuzer), you need a good team that is willing to pay for your travelling (really hard to find), you need a fanbase so you're more appealing for sponsors and you have to make the commitment to be a fulltime pro because if you still go to school or work you cant just travel around the world all the time.
That are just way harder obstacles than just being better skillwise. The only reason why you would consider him better is because hes competing internationally and you hear from him all the time. If you just compare results where you can draw a direct comparison (WCS, I47) theres no indication that tlo is actually better. But well as i said, im looking forward for him to compete in EPS because then you can see how good he actually is in direct comparison to other German players. I dont try to be mean or anything, i just think its unfair to player who struggle to get as much exposure to think that they must be worse skillwise, just because you dont hear as much from them.
On December 05 2012 02:35 TheFlock wrote: Haha that was pretty funny, It seemed like the results for learning cognitive expertise were pretty lame and extremely obvious but I can't complain that I get to see TLO and SC2 on Discovery
I was wondering why they put shots of HerO vs Puma and even Zenio, when i'm sure Dario has lots of exciting replays he could have pulled up for the cameras... Oh well
GG WP Dario! Great TV spot
They're only obvious because you were already aware of them due to your expertise at the game! They are not obvious to the uninformed. Most games take a few hours to learn basic rules, and a maybe 20 hours to become proficient . Sc2 is a game with complex rules, implied rules, rules that are based on metagame, you can't learn the rules from the ground up even in a week. I've been playing religiously since release and I'm only high diamond. I do, however, think the scientist leading the study didn't emphasize the role of tier-by-tier skill set building enough.
On December 05 2012 22:57 SpikeStarcraft wrote: Just because youre competing internationally doesnt mean that you're better skillwise.
TLO currently is the best german player and one of the stronger foreigners. Look at the results Socke or HasuObs had in the last big tournaments: They got crushed in group stages sometimes not winning a single series. Only Darforce may be strong too, but wasnt at a major tournament lately.
TLO instead showed pretty strong games and good results lately. Sometimes it hurts a bit to watch him play too gimmicky and loose games he should won for sure. But right now he shows the strongest potential of all remaining Liquid Foreigners. He may not be toptop korean level, but hes definatly one of the best foreigners..
On December 05 2012 22:57 SpikeStarcraft wrote: Just because youre competing internationally doesnt mean that you're better skillwise. TLO can compete there because he has a funny personality and therefore a huge fanbase that wants to see his fancy strats, gets direct invites or is able to travel to the open bracket because he has a team that pays for his travel expenses and he has commited himself to be a fulltime pro gamer.
That has nothing to do with skill and its incredibly hard for unknown players to make it to international tournaments. You need to qualify for the event which isnt that easy compared to direct invites or open brackets (tlo failed yesterday in IEM Katowice qualification stage 1 against fuzer), you need a good team that is willing to pay for your travelling (really hard to find), you need a fanbase so you're more appealing for sponsors and you have to make the commitment to be a fulltime pro because if you still go to school or work you cant just travel around the world all the time.
That are just way harder obstacles than just being better skillwise. The only reason why you would consider him better is because hes competing internationally and you hear from him all the time. If you just compare results where you can draw a direct comparison (WCS, I47) theres no indication that tlo is actually better. But well as i said, im looking forward for him to compete in EPS because then you can see how good he actually is in direct comparison to other German players. I dont try to be mean or anything, i just think its unfair to player who struggle to get as much exposure to think that they must be worse skillwise, just because you dont hear as much from them.
I think direct invites are the main reason, why fans of popular foreign players think that they can compete with the best. (just to get slaughtered when there is money on the line, IPL5 recent example).GSL has it right, no easy way to get in the Code S Ro16 groups.
OT: Would never turn my adblock off, even if the video wasnt blocked :D.
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill.
TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players.
Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German.
Actually, they are becoming really really good now. I remember Hasu losing to Krass several times lately.
I'm sure they could be improving, but still, the point was that TLO is a pretty high-tier foreigner. WCS Germany isn't the only viewpoint, and while DH Winter isn't too, you have to admit he's been doing a lot better recently; while KraSs may be getting better, I doubt he'll be able to compete on an international level like TLO does until atleast 2013.
I stand corrected, but honestly, Multiplay UK isn't a "huge international tournament"; it's minor at best. That doesn't change anything about competing on an international level.
On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine
was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners,
Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO.
In WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO.
But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise.
These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players.
Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill.
TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players.
Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German.
after watching his code A qualification games, I just can't say he is a good player at all. He tried to do cool strategies like nydus and roach drop against a mass thor terran and lost completely. he won a few games because of his scouting (clever scouting for proxy) and base trades. I don't remember he won any by standard games at all
Code A? The only time a foreigner wins in code A is if it's a fluke or occasionally NaNiwa; by your logic, people like ThorZaIN aren't good either.
I am not saying he is not good because he didn't get out from code A. But it is his game play from Code A qualifier games that just shows how lack of skill he is and had to win by scrappy games and base trading.
was cool video, they didn't say anything I didn't know but kinda cool how many people could potential see that and be like "hey my kid plays that game"