Recently I visited one of the Polish leading community forum and stumbled upon new information's about Ministry of Win.
Its seems that they refuse to pay their ex-eployees. One example is their Ex-Player Maneager Kevin 'illu' Vandini who posted on his Facebook: "It's been now 3 months I've left MoW and they still owe me money. keep ignoring me and dodging like bosses. Definitely a project run by an irresponsible and incompetent guy" (original link: https://www.facebook.com/illuSC2)
Second case is of their ex cook and an "all-around guy" that were working there. It seems that they didn't received their money as well.
3rd case is of their ex-partner, guy called Yeti from outPlayed. It seems that he was the sponsor of the prize pool for their tournament, Battle at Ministry of Win. He says that they didn't fulfill their contract and now outPlayed is going to file a case against them in court. From what I see its about a 5 digit re-compensation. A translation of what Yeti said is: "-They didn't fulfill their duties -I didn't recive my part of income -Working with them is a joke in general." He said that it all happened even tho they have a contract that states all the duties, responsibilities and punishments. If that true then the Guy running MoW must be really, really... bad.
It seems that MoW is proving what a joke they are for the 3rd time. Anyone intrested in original thread can go here: http://netwars.pl/temat/153871 - it's all in Polish :/
Ps. sorry for spelling mistakes in title ;(, employees...
What's with this Ministry of win situation. Seems like its been so much trouble over nothing. And now they are not paying their staff? Well there is always 2 sides of the story so people shouldn't hop on the bandwagon before they heard from both.
On December 24 2012 00:44 PiQLiQ wrote: What's with this Ministry of win situation. Seems like its been so much trouble over nothing. And now they are not paying their staff? Well there is always 2 sides of the story so people shouldn't hop on the bandwagon before they heard from both.
MoW already has a bad history. (Food problem and player lodging/transfer problem)
So yeah people jumping the bandwagon isn't surprising.
On December 24 2012 00:44 PiQLiQ wrote: What's with this Ministry of win situation. Seems like its been so much trouble over nothing. And now they are not paying their staff? Well there is always 2 sides of the story so people shouldn't hop on the bandwagon before they heard from both.
Something this community is so incredibly good at, nothing to worry about here at all.
I'm giving you the information's from 3 different people that are saying MoW owns them money. I'm quite interested in what will they say... if they will. After Fuzer's drama it might be hard to hear something from them.
On December 24 2012 00:44 PiQLiQ wrote: What's with this Ministry of win situation. Seems like its been so much trouble over nothing. And now they are not paying their staff? Well there is always 2 sides of the story so people shouldn't hop on the bandwagon before they heard from both.
Something this community is so incredibly good at, nothing to worry about here at all.
MoW drama are not new , must be something normal for them.
There's just organizations or people like Eclypsia, MoW, Gus and others who will abuse every attention, support and money they receive to make themselves profit, without caring about others or consequences of their behaviour for general E-Sports. Everyone supporting them should be aware of that.
Oh how surprising someone in financial problem can't pay I would have never imagined. And yeah ... being annoyed by not being payed is something new for me as well. Anyway thanks for this info you increased the chances of these people never getting payed by 5% or so.
While I too would love to jump on the "I hate MoW" one-liner bandwagon (probably because it's been rolling around for so long and they've messed up so many times already), I'd still like to hear all sides of all stories before jumping to conclusions about the more recent accusations (which are probably true, given MoW's history, but still).
Obviously, it'd be a pity if people aren't receiving the money and recognition that they deserve.
This house is a fucking joke, honestly every teams should manage teamhouses and not some idiots who don´t know anything about their job.
Look at the ALien INvasion house in Duisburgs, it works, no drama about it, because a serious team runs it and not someone who doesn´t knwo anything about his job...
On December 24 2012 00:44 PiQLiQ wrote: What's with this Ministry of win situation. Seems like its been so much trouble over nothing. And now they are not paying their staff? Well there is always 2 sides of the story so people shouldn't hop on the bandwagon before they heard from both.
MoW already has a bad history. (Food problem and player lodging/transfer problem)
So yeah people jumping the bandwagon isn't surprising.
But people should learn not to do that. What if its a misunderstanding? And everyone blame MoW directly for it before getting the facts ? I think we shall wait for MoW's response to this. Even tho they did wrong in the past they should not be seen as guilty until proven guilty.
This is Ministry of shame. Owners of MoW just came, made shit on Polish e-sport scene, and then they're like "nothing happened". And as usual Kropekkk try to make himself clear and fail pretty miserably. I think whole situation will end up in court.
On December 24 2012 00:44 PiQLiQ wrote: What's with this Ministry of win situation. Seems like its been so much trouble over nothing. And now they are not paying their staff? Well there is always 2 sides of the story so people shouldn't hop on the bandwagon before they heard from both.
MoW already has a bad history. (Food problem and player lodging/transfer problem)
So yeah people jumping the bandwagon isn't surprising.
But people should learn not to do that. What if its a misunderstanding? And everyone blame MoW directly for it before getting the facts ? I think we shall wait for MoW's response to this. Even tho they did wrong in the past they should not be seen as guilty until proven guilty.
You cannot blame people for jumping mow like this. They have fucked up so many times thus there's probably a high chance they have fucked up again.
I wouldn't be surprised if the these ex employees were just as bad as MOW. After all the crap that's happened why would anyone even consider doing any sort of legal business with them? It should be painfully obvious by now that MOW just doesn't know how to conduct business.
On December 24 2012 00:44 PiQLiQ wrote: What's with this Ministry of win situation. Seems like its been so much trouble over nothing. And now they are not paying their staff? Well there is always 2 sides of the story so people shouldn't hop on the bandwagon before they heard from both.
MoW already has a bad history. (Food problem and player lodging/transfer problem)
So yeah people jumping the bandwagon isn't surprising.
But people should learn not to do that. What if its a misunderstanding? And everyone blame MoW directly for it before getting the facts ? I think we shall wait for MoW's response to this. Even tho they did wrong in the past they should not be seen as guilty until proven guilty.
You cannot blame people for jumping mow like this. They have fucked up so many times thus there's probably a high chance they did it again.
I do blame the people for saying bad stuffs without any evidence. If i said something like "OH the guy that runs MOW just screw me on money and just posted it on forums.." would you believe that without any evidence?
You even realized that the link in the OP that directs to a facebook page is gone? That you can't even find it anymore? Why is that?
People can be skeptic because of their past i can agree on that. But without evidence i don't think people should create unnecessary drama all the time.
This is great, lets focus on the negative, and not the positive, where a foreigner who stayed at the ministry of win just 4-0'd one of the best zergs on the planet.
Why do we even need to know this stuff? As far as I'm concerned the place works for what we should care it works for, and anyone who's not in esports who is not being paid should have legal recourse. If not then it seems to me that they shouldn't take a job they couldn't fight for the salary for if it wasn't paid.
Whatever, I'm done with the drama threads. so much negative given the spotlight when so much positive is just absolutely disregarded.
The problem with past drama hasn't been so much the act itself as the bad response.
MoW should see this within 12 hours of posting. If they don't that's their first problem. Then they need a full statement explaining exactly what did and didn't happen, and what they plan to do about it, both on their website and on the TL/Reddit threads. With no added drama or blaming people, just the facts. You could say it's unfair but their past actions necessitate a defensive stance because it is damaging to let this roll on any longer.
On December 24 2012 00:44 PiQLiQ wrote: What's with this Ministry of win situation. Seems like its been so much trouble over nothing. And now they are not paying their staff? Well there is always 2 sides of the story so people shouldn't hop on the bandwagon before they heard from both.
MoW already has a bad history. (Food problem and player lodging/transfer problem)
So yeah people jumping the bandwagon isn't surprising.
But people should learn not to do that. What if its a misunderstanding? And everyone blame MoW directly for it before getting the facts ? I think we shall wait for MoW's response to this. Even tho they did wrong in the past they should not be seen as guilty until proven guilty.
You cannot blame people for jumping mow like this. They have fucked up so many times thus there's probably a high chance they did it again.
You even realized that the link in the OP that directs to a facebook page is gone? That you can't even find it anymore? Why is that?
Delete the parenthesis at the end
Personally, I just hope we get some baby pandas this time. Kittens won't cut it this time, MoW
Maybe i'm just so credulous i don't know but i still think everyone deserves a chance to explain themselves I do understand why people are being skeptic when it comes to MoW and how they handle their business. But now we have heard this players small story lets just wait for the other one.
The way I see it is this... everyone involved is in over their head. The players are young gamers who can't possibly be wise enough to handle this type of thing, and the employers are inexperienced businessmen in a very new business of e-sports. That audio clip between desrow and management led me to this conclusion, btw.
I am not living there, and nobody is forcing anyone to live there. And those who didn't get paid, have the legal options to sue them. If you are unhappy there leave the house, if you got scammed, sue them (except if you were a stupid enough to work with no contract for a sc2 training house, because that's asking for trouble when they aren't financially speaking great).
On December 24 2012 01:46 lessQQmorePEWPEW wrote: starcraft and its damned drama. like a soap opera
I wait with bated breath for the mobster, bomb, and damsel tied to a chair scene to come up. Regardless though, I'll wait and hear MoW's position on the matter.
On December 24 2012 00:44 PiQLiQ wrote: What's with this Ministry of win situation. Seems like its been so much trouble over nothing. And now they are not paying their staff? Well there is always 2 sides of the story so people shouldn't hop on the bandwagon before they heard from both.
MoW already has a bad history. (Food problem and player lodging/transfer problem)
So yeah people jumping the bandwagon isn't surprising.
But people should learn not to do that. What if its a misunderstanding? And everyone blame MoW directly for it before getting the facts ? I think we shall wait for MoW's response to this. Even tho they did wrong in the past they should not be seen as guilty until proven guilty.
You cannot blame people for jumping mow like this. They have fucked up so many times thus there's probably a high chance they did it again.
I do blame the people for saying bad stuffs without any evidence. If i said something like "OH the guy that runs MOW just screw me on money and just posted it on forums.." would you believe that without any evidence?
You even realized that the link in the OP that directs to a facebook page is gone? That you can't even find it anymore? Why is that?
People can be skeptic because of their past i can agree on that. But without evidence i don't think people should create unnecessary drama all the time.
Theyve already messed up more than once in the past. If it was up to me I would have shut down that house months ago before this drama/problem ever even got a chance to surface. Doesnt really matter though, MoW and the players there are all irrelevant.
On December 24 2012 02:05 Godwrath wrote: I am not living there, and nobody is forcing anyone to live there. And those who didn't get paid, have the legal options to sue them. If you are unhappy there leave the house, if you got scammed, sue them (except if you were a stupid enough to work with no contract for a sc2 training house, because that's asking for trouble when they aren't financially speaking great).
I have to say, this pretty well sums up what I was thinking. On both points.
There's legal ways for the employees and anyone they've contracted with to seek redress. As for contracting, I thought MoW was less a team-style training house, and more along the lines of a hostel which seeks to minimize distractions so that people can focus on improvement. (Paying the MoW for the ability to stay there, etc.)
Could be interesting to hear what response there is, but the court of public opinion really isn't the best place for these concerns.
I hope this thread won't go into direction about how Polish people are thieves and assholes or some kind of anti semitic comments like Desrows "jews". People responsible of Mow have bad reputation in Starcraft Polish community(netwars.pl). This project was very promising but its failure. They are just amateurs and I suggest you to stay away from it.
At first I thought this was a thread that got necro'd, but then I realized that MoW is run by a bunch of crooks. Seriously, how are these people still in business?
On December 24 2012 02:30 AzoriuS wrote: I hope this thread won't go into direction about how Polish people are thieves and assholes or some kind of anti semitic comments like Desrows "jews". People responsible of Mow have bad reputation in Starcraft Polish community(netwars.pl). This project was very promising but its failure. They are just amateurs and I suggest you to stay away from it.
^this
We (Polish people) hate people those guys who made this MoW. Just don't judge whole coutry becouse of them
On December 24 2012 02:30 AzoriuS wrote: I hope this thread won't go into direction about how Polish people are thieves and assholes or some kind of anti semitic comments like Desrows "jews". People responsible of Mow have bad reputation in Starcraft Polish community(netwars.pl). This project was very promising but its failure. They are just amateurs and I suggest you to stay away from it.
^this
We (Polish people) hate people those guys who made this MoW. Just don't judge whole coutry becouse of them
Of course people doesn't judge a whole country for a few peoples faults.
We better get angry about it on the forums. Because, you know, we can make a difference. And besides, people who run bad businesses just deserve to get insulted publicly.
On December 24 2012 02:30 AzoriuS wrote: I hope this thread won't go into direction about how Polish people are thieves and assholes or some kind of anti semitic comments like Desrows "jews". People responsible of Mow have bad reputation in Starcraft Polish community(netwars.pl). This project was very promising but its failure. They are just amateurs and I suggest you to stay away from it.
I didn't think of that until you said it, oh the irony if you send the thread in that direction! :D
On December 24 2012 02:02 Stanlot wrote: I don't even know how MoW works as a business. It seemed a bit shady and unprofessional to begin with.
If I understood its announcement correctly, those who own the house accept applications from high(er/ish in some cases) and decide which players would be allowed to live in the house.
The players pay some amount of rent for the practice environment, board is also included. Those gamers are supposed to stream x hours per day, for the game they were brought into the house to practice. The over under seemed flimsy at best in terms of profitability
On December 24 2012 01:51 Integra wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if the these ex employees were just as bad as MOW. After all the crap that's happened why would anyone even consider doing any sort of legal business with them? It should be painfully obvious by now that MOW just doesn't know how to conduct business.
Illu, at least, was a responsible and legit guy in Wc3.
MoW having problems is nothing new. I kind of hope it's dissolved in short so no one else has to deal with their bullshit. It was a cute idea but if it's going to be such a shit show, I don't think it's worth it.
the most funny thing about all MoW Threads...OP is mostly unknown or a player that is known for bad manner/team hopping etc. From my point of view MoW is doing great...Morrow and Ret seem satisfied...maybe i am wrong...
On December 24 2012 03:26 Arcanne wrote: Who cares st this point
Well people should care at this point since it concerns a lot of future players out there trying to get some help via team houses or gaming houses. It's good information and if they are as bad as people say they are they need to either start focusing on the things they are bad at and fix it. Otherwise they need to close the gaming house. This is very important information IF it's the truth.
On December 24 2012 04:31 cutler wrote: the most funny thing about all MoW Threads...OP is mostly unknown or a player that is known for bad manner/team hopping etc. From my point of view MoW is doing great...Morrow and Ret seem satisfied...maybe i am wrong...
Fuzer's incidence is not this. The whole deal of trying to force the player to sign a contract they're not sure of seems really bad from my point of view at least.
On December 24 2012 02:30 AzoriuS wrote: I hope this thread won't go into direction about how Polish people are thieves and assholes or some kind of anti semitic comments like Desrows "jews". People responsible of Mow have bad reputation in Starcraft Polish community(netwars.pl). This project was very promising but its failure. They are just amateurs and I suggest you to stay away from it.
I didn't think of that until you said it, oh the irony if you send the thread in that direction! :D
In previous thread about Desrow problem with food, some people put comments about Poland not MoW and I felt little bit offended
I think TL should boycot MoW. They have no morals and they're in it for one thing, money, even if it means blatantly ripping people off, lying, scamming.
I'm waiting for the next thread about MoW's dispicable behavior, only to wait for the one after that.
On December 24 2012 07:05 JazzNL wrote: I think TL should boycot MoW. They have no morals and they're in it for one thing, money, even if it means blatantly ripping people off, lying, scamming.
I'm waiting for the next thread about MoW's dispicable behavior, only to wait for the one after that.
Gotta love it. As soon as someone joins an online site they think they're part of something and already calling for boycots! I think you should do what you want to do, and not try to influence anyone else, let alone an entire website.
On December 24 2012 06:38 oGsCool wrote: I am surprised people are still living there, I would expect at some point the house would just shut down.
If it would be really that bad, i wouldn't live in MoW for half a year already I like it here and despite some bumps in the past it runs very smoothly now It just makes me sad that the community is desperately searching for drama and villians and tries to blindly destroy this project that helped quite a lot of people in their eSports career And i'm tired trying to explain the situation to the community. I'm a player who lived here for a very long time and im able to give an objective persepective about the situation, but last time my statements along with some other players statement who were living here just got ignored because it didn't fit in the community's black & white scheme and the community just continued to go on their hate-filled furious rampage to destroy this project (sponsor-mailing, hatemailing and even life-threatening mail) There are always two sides of the medal, there were quite many problems with the people who worked for MoW, which you have to expect in this country. Don't take this offensively, i like this country and their people a lot, otherwise i would not live here for such long time, but anyone who worked with polish companies or used services in poland before knows what i'm talking about. There are always two sides in an agreement and both parties have to fullfil their duties, i don't know exact details, but people who worked here failed to fulfill them. Cooks who were actually ordering food and faking bills and after some time refused to make proper meals (which is actually the reason for the terrible food situation that some of you guys might still remember, gladly we have a new cook and proper food now) Tournament organizers who failed organizing the tournament. The first couple online qualifiers their website was either completely down, crashing or having severe issues, resulting in many pro players not wanting to participate anymore. Their organization was a disaster and they did a very poor job promoting the tournament to the point when MoW itself had to organize and promote it even tho they hired the tournament organizer for that cause
The community has the power to create eSports, but also the power to destroy it I just wish they would be more objective and would take both sides and statements into consideration before they start acting
On December 24 2012 08:01 Wilko wrote: Tournament organizers who failed organizing the tournament. The first couple online qualifiers their website was either completely down, crashing or having severe issues, resulting in many pro players not wanting to participate anymore. Their organization was a disaster and they did a very poor job promoting the tournament to the point when MoW itself had to organize and promote it even tho they hired the tournament organizer for that cause
That shows perfectly how little you know. I have to agree that there were problems with server but only in the first qualifier since we had some people simply spamming the server and we weren't prepared for it - I take the responsibility for it. Other tournaments went smooth and I always was there to help everyone who had problems. Even as far as switching players if both sides agreed. And I'm 100% sure I did that for you too. Switched you in place of an offline player since you forgot to sign up to one of qualifiers. And as far as the other side agreed I did it a lot. So that's simply a lie. Secondly I wasn't "hired". I was the co-organizer and paid for the whole prize pool. It was ass much my responsibility as their to promote the event. Again, you don't know what you are talking about. Promotion by MoW was funny as sh*t since they always "forgot" the other part of the name so for them it was "Battle at Ministry of Win". And they did NOTHING more then put a link on their Facebook where I made TL and Reddit thread every time. So they still look plain in that case tho we both could do better.
You see you are right. In each case the medal have to sides. You said something about you had no idea (that "hired" part is the best) and I'm here to prove you wrong. With MoW it looks like they don't even go as far as explaining themselves so we don't know "the other side".
As far as it goes for me, a person who have a signed contract with MoW I can say that working with them was a nightmare, if not all those great people I meet during the tournament it would be a total loss of money.
And please Wilko, don't talk about something you don't know about anymore.
Yeah it's to bad the project was put into the hands of the wrong person. From my understanding Oliver left because he couldn't stand boss (I forget his name, It's like Majeic or something). Oliver was a stand up, Nice guy. I really liked him, and Boss was a total dick that no one really liked.
On December 24 2012 08:39 outplayed.yeti wrote: That shows perfectly how little you know. I have to agree that there were problems with server but only in the first qualifier since we had some people simply spamming the server and we weren't prepared for it - I take the responsibility for it. Other tournaments went smooth and I always was there to help everyone who had problems. Even as far as switching players if both sides agreed. And I'm 100% sure I did that for you too. Switched you in place of an offline player since you forgot to sign up to one of qualifiers. And as far as the other side agreed I did it a lot.
They didn't went smooth at all. You switched me in along with some other players because it was not possible for them or me to sign up for the tournament, because of the buggy site that didn't show the current tournaments unless you changed something in the URL. I personally know of good players who didn't participate because of exactly this problem. And i think that you forget that i was there the entire tournament and i saw what mistakes were made etc.. As i stated before i don't know exact details, but i saw that the tournament lacked structure and organization, but luckily everyone worked together and quite some people volunteered with organizing and casting, so the tournament ran smooth at the end.
On December 24 2012 08:57 FXOkaRmy wrote: Yeah it's to bad the project was put into the hands of the wrong person. From my understanding Oliver left because he couldn't stand boss (I forget his name, It's like Majeic or something). Oliver was a stand up, Nice guy. I really liked him, and Boss was a total dick that no one really liked.
Oliver left because the whole project was too much for him and he wanted to have some time to spend with his family etc. So Maciej ended up working on his own, but back then he did the majority of the work himself too. Oliver did a way better job interacting with people, so i can understand that it looked like this to you, but it was actually different. They are actually good friends and the boss gave him a place to stay until he found a new appartement. You probably still have his skype, so you can actually ask him yourself
On December 24 2012 09:22 Savagewood wrote: Sad to see this, I hope they pay their guys soon. The entirety of Destiny's fan base seems like a bad group of people to piss off.
I don't understand why they would be pissed off tho. Destiny never was negative about MoW and he had no complaints, so i don't see a reason for that
On December 24 2012 09:36 Wilko wrote: They didn't went smooth at all. You switched me in along with some other players because it was not possible for them or me to sign up for the tournament, because of the buggy site that didn't show the current tournaments unless you changed something in the URL. I personally know of good players who didn't participate because of exactly this problem. And i think that you forget that i was there the entire tournament and i saw what mistakes were made etc.. As i stated before i don't know exact details, but i saw that the tournament lacked structure and organization, but luckily everyone worked together and quite some people volunteered with organizing and casting, so the tournament ran smooth at the end.
As far as I know you were the only one with logging problem that came to me. I had a lot of work during all the qualifiers and as I said, 1st were a fail. Other run smooth from my perspective - everything worked fine during tests since 2nd qualifiers and we had no major problems reported. And I don't know anything about those "url changes" you are talking about. No one came with that, seriously... I will go as far as saying that you might have been the one with some problems at your end. If more people will confirm your story than I'm more than interested in it. Tho after 1st qualifier we did changed the server and our domain wasn't running on DNS but on Forwarding. But there was an information about it (TL and Tournament Info) and it's not my fault you didn't realized it... and didn't read the tournament info - if that was the case obv.
About the main event.... During first two there were so many problems it wasn't even funny. A lot of stuff was kept under the rug so just drop that part.
I agree with Wilko tbh. The MoW has a negative reputation with the community, but we should atleaast get a statement from them before assuming too much. Like remember the whole rekrul-coach lee drama? Everyone was like scumbag lee until ogs's own coach had to refute rekrul's claims
On December 24 2012 06:38 oGsCool wrote: I am surprised people are still living there, I would expect at some point the house would just shut down.
If it would be really that bad, i wouldn't live in MoW for half a year already I like it here and despite some bumps in the past it runs very smoothly now It just makes me sad that the community is desperately searching for drama and villians and tries to blindly destroy this project that helped quite a lot of people in their eSports career And i'm tired trying to explain the situation to the community. I'm a player who lived here for a very long time and im able to give an objective persepective about the situation, but last time my statements along with some other players statement who were living here just got ignored because it didn't fit in the community's black & white scheme and the community just continued to go on their hate-filled furious rampage to destroy this project (sponsor-mailing, hatemailing and even life-threatening mail) There are always two sides of the medal, there were quite many problems with the people who worked for MoW, which you have to expect in this country. Don't take this offensively, i like this country and their people a lot, otherwise i would not live here for such long time, but anyone who worked with polish companies or used services in poland before knows what i'm talking about. There are always two sides in an agreement and both parties have to fullfil their duties, i don't know exact details, but people who worked here failed to fulfill them. Cooks who were actually ordering food and faking bills and after some time refused to make proper meals (which is actually the reason for the terrible food situation that some of you guys might still remember, gladly we have a new cook and proper food now) Tournament organizers who failed organizing the tournament. The first couple online qualifiers their website was either completely down, crashing or having severe issues, resulting in many pro players not wanting to participate anymore. Their organization was a disaster and they did a very poor job promoting the tournament to the point when MoW itself had to organize and promote it even tho they hired the tournament organizer for that cause
The community has the power to create eSports, but also the power to destroy it I just wish they would be more objective and would take both sides and statements into consideration before they start acting
If a company has so much problem, a large responsibility must be taken on its side, even if the problems aren't on MoW side. You can blame on cooks, tournament sponsor and even your opinion on Poland, but it won't change the fact that MoW never got them right.
MoW still getting it wrong and it has long passed that 'inexperienced' stage already.
On December 24 2012 23:27 E.L.V.I.S wrote: This place is supposed to be a training center for players, right ? Please Wilko, tell us about this side of the house.
I'd ask Snute if MoW training had anything to do with his recent rise to success.
Every day there's a new story. Its a real shame that the only attempt at a proper gaming house in Europe not owned by a specific team, fails this badly due to unprofessional management.
On December 24 2012 07:05 JazzNL wrote: I think TL should boycot MoW. They have no morals and they're in it for one thing, money, even if it means blatantly ripping people off, lying, scamming.
I'm waiting for the next thread about MoW's dispicable behavior, only to wait for the one after that.
Gotta love it. As soon as someone joins an online site they think they're part of something and already calling for boycots! I think you should do what you want to do, and not try to influence anyone else, let alone an entire website.
I am part of something, it's called a community.
Also, you're trying to influence me, try living by your own rules.
On December 24 2012 06:38 oGsCool wrote: I am surprised people are still living there, I would expect at some point the house would just shut down.
If it would be really that bad, i wouldn't live in MoW for half a year already I like it here and despite some bumps in the past it runs very smoothly now It just makes me sad that the community is desperately searching for drama and villians and tries to blindly destroy this project that helped quite a lot of people in their eSports career And i'm tired trying to explain the situation to the community. I'm a player who lived here for a very long time and im able to give an objective persepective about the situation, but last time my statements along with some other players statement who were living here just got ignored because it didn't fit in the community's black & white scheme and the community just continued to go on their hate-filled furious rampage to destroy this project (sponsor-mailing, hatemailing and even life-threatening mail) There are always two sides of the medal, there were quite many problems with the people who worked for MoW, which you have to expect in this country. Don't take this offensively, i like this country and their people a lot, otherwise i would not live here for such long time, but anyone who worked with polish companies or used services in poland before knows what i'm talking about. There are always two sides in an agreement and both parties have to fullfil their duties, i don't know exact details, but people who worked here failed to fulfill them. Cooks who were actually ordering food and faking bills and after some time refused to make proper meals (which is actually the reason for the terrible food situation that some of you guys might still remember, gladly we have a new cook and proper food now) Tournament organizers who failed organizing the tournament. The first couple online qualifiers their website was either completely down, crashing or having severe issues, resulting in many pro players not wanting to participate anymore. Their organization was a disaster and they did a very poor job promoting the tournament to the point when MoW itself had to organize and promote it even tho they hired the tournament organizer for that cause
The community has the power to create eSports, but also the power to destroy it I just wish they would be more objective and would take both sides and statements into consideration before they start acting
I'm not trying to dispute the things you said but how can you give an objective perspective about something if you've lived / live there?
On December 24 2012 07:05 JazzNL wrote: I think TL should boycot MoW. They have no morals and they're in it for one thing, money, even if it means blatantly ripping people off, lying, scamming.
I'm waiting for the next thread about MoW's dispicable behavior, only to wait for the one after that.
Gotta love it. As soon as someone joins an online site they think they're part of something and already calling for boycots! I think you should do what you want to do, and not try to influence anyone else, let alone an entire website.
I am part of something, it's called a community.
Also, you're trying to influence me, try living by your own rules.
Lol this kid have been drinking the kool aid so hard. This all "community" thing people feel part of hurts the scene as much as it helps it. You're probably the kind of people that feel the need of action and go emailing sponsors and stuff. People should just sit back and not get involved in these things. Maybe do some other things... like getting better at the game?
Well, the house and all its functionality is still there. It seems to me that these kinds of problems aren't putting an end to the idea itself and can be resolved much easier than building a similar project from scratch. GL to MoW, hope they find a way to fix their issues, including with their management etc.
On December 24 2012 06:38 oGsCool wrote: I am surprised people are still living there, I would expect at some point the house would just shut down.
If it would be really that bad, i wouldn't live in MoW for half a year already I like it here and despite some bumps in the past it runs very smoothly now It just makes me sad that the community is desperately searching for drama and villians and tries to blindly destroy this project that helped quite a lot of people in their eSports career And i'm tired trying to explain the situation to the community. I'm a player who lived here for a very long time and im able to give an objective persepective about the situation, but last time my statements along with some other players statement who were living here just got ignored because it didn't fit in the community's black & white scheme and the community just continued to go on their hate-filled furious rampage to destroy this project (sponsor-mailing, hatemailing and even life-threatening mail) There are always two sides of the medal, there were quite many problems with the people who worked for MoW, which you have to expect in this country. Don't take this offensively, i like this country and their people a lot, otherwise i would not live here for such long time, but anyone who worked with polish companies or used services in poland before knows what i'm talking about. There are always two sides in an agreement and both parties have to fullfil their duties, i don't know exact details, but people who worked here failed to fulfill them. Cooks who were actually ordering food and faking bills and after some time refused to make proper meals (which is actually the reason for the terrible food situation that some of you guys might still remember, gladly we have a new cook and proper food now) Tournament organizers who failed organizing the tournament. The first couple online qualifiers their website was either completely down, crashing or having severe issues, resulting in many pro players not wanting to participate anymore. Their organization was a disaster and they did a very poor job promoting the tournament to the point when MoW itself had to organize and promote it even tho they hired the tournament organizer for that cause
The community has the power to create eSports, but also the power to destroy it I just wish they would be more objective and would take both sides and statements into consideration before they start acting
I'm not trying to dispute the things you said but how can you give an objective perspective about something if you've lived / live there?
It's called firsthand testimony! EDIT: Maybe that doesn't mean he's 100% objective, but he has a better view on things that ALLOWS for a much more objective opinion.
On December 24 2012 06:38 oGsCool wrote: I am surprised people are still living there, I would expect at some point the house would just shut down.
If it would be really that bad, i wouldn't live in MoW for half a year already I like it here and despite some bumps in the past it runs very smoothly now It just makes me sad that the community is desperately searching for drama and villians and tries to blindly destroy this project that helped quite a lot of people in their eSports career And i'm tired trying to explain the situation to the community. I'm a player who lived here for a very long time and im able to give an objective persepective about the situation, but last time my statements along with some other players statement who were living here just got ignored because it didn't fit in the community's black & white scheme and the community just continued to go on their hate-filled furious rampage to destroy this project (sponsor-mailing, hatemailing and even life-threatening mail) There are always two sides of the medal, there were quite many problems with the people who worked for MoW, which you have to expect in this country. Don't take this offensively, i like this country and their people a lot, otherwise i would not live here for such long time, but anyone who worked with polish companies or used services in poland before knows what i'm talking about. There are always two sides in an agreement and both parties have to fullfil their duties, i don't know exact details, but people who worked here failed to fulfill them. Cooks who were actually ordering food and faking bills and after some time refused to make proper meals (which is actually the reason for the terrible food situation that some of you guys might still remember, gladly we have a new cook and proper food now) Tournament organizers who failed organizing the tournament. The first couple online qualifiers their website was either completely down, crashing or having severe issues, resulting in many pro players not wanting to participate anymore. Their organization was a disaster and they did a very poor job promoting the tournament to the point when MoW itself had to organize and promote it even tho they hired the tournament organizer for that cause
The community has the power to create eSports, but also the power to destroy it I just wish they would be more objective and would take both sides and statements into consideration before they start acting
It's easy to point the finger at someone else. Oh, it was the cook fault... oh it was the tournament organizer's fault. When is MoW going to hire competent workers because what the community see is MoW ruining their reputation time and time again. Ultimately MoW is hiring the wrong people and that's no one fault but the person in charge with those decisions.
I'm not sure who's fault it is in this case and without having both sides of the story, it's hard to know who's fault it is however MoW has had a bad reputation in the community and time and time again, there are complaints made against them and their response wasn't on par with a professional organization. As it stands, more time and presentation from both sides is needed before fault can be laid although it doesn't look good for MoW.
On December 24 2012 23:27 E.L.V.I.S wrote: This place is supposed to be a training center for players, right ? Please Wilko, tell us about this side of the house.
I'd ask Snute if MoW training had anything to do with his recent rise to success.
The training side is still very good. I feel i improved a lot here even tho i know i don't have talent for rts and so did many other players. You can focus 100% on training. When Snute was here he improved a ton and so he was able to qualify for MLG and IPL while he was living here. As he says himself and states in interviews, he was in the best shape during the time when he was in MoW. He was eating healthy, at proper times, had a fixed schedule and was working out in our gym. So he was in the best shape to be actually able to train for 12+ hours a day without getting exhausted or having to care about cooking, doing laundry, cleaning, etc.
On December 25 2012 01:30 Forgottenfrog wrote: It's easy to point the finger at someone else. Oh, it was the cook fault... oh it was the tournament organizer's fault. When is MoW going to hire competent workers because what the community see is MoW ruining their reputation time and time again. Ultimately MoW is hiring the wrong people and that's no one fault but the person in charge with those decisions.
Yes, you are right about that. It was MoWs fault to have not the right people. Some of that was just bad luck, but it was also not proper management, but those problems got solved by now even though it took more time than it was supposed to take.
On December 24 2012 07:05 JazzNL wrote: I think TL should boycot MoW. They have no morals and they're in it for one thing, money, even if it means blatantly ripping people off, lying, scamming.
I'm waiting for the next thread about MoW's dispicable behavior, only to wait for the one after that.
Gotta love it. As soon as someone joins an online site they think they're part of something and already calling for boycots! I think you should do what you want to do, and not try to influence anyone else, let alone an entire website.
I am part of something, it's called a community.
Also, you're trying to influence me, try living by your own rules.
Lol this kid have been drinking the kool aid so hard. This all "community" thing people feel part of hurts the scene as much as it helps it. You're probably the kind of people that feel the need of action and go emailing sponsors and stuff. People should just sit back and not get involved in these things. Maybe do some other things... like getting better at the game?
I've never had someone trying to insult me and say stuff that's so unrelated to me lol, you're a funny kid way to keep it on-topic btw!
Sad to see stuff like this happening around Christmas.. The man in charge of MoW is in for a real shit storm....I hope he pays for his negative actions in court. GL to all players and employees that were jipped.
Expected from MoW. Unprofessional organizations like MoW and Eclypsia where eSports employees can't even rely to get their salary is what's killing this industry.
Looking through this thread, especially at Wilko's posts, makes me question its validity.. it'd be nice to have a full perspective from the people accusing MoW, as well.
Also, the OP has only ever posted about MoW drama and portrayed MoW in a negative light (potentially justifiably, but that's not my point). Little odd. I'm considering the source...
I just love this house. It should become a reality show, something like a Big Brother show or something.
Seriously, the MoW should shape up or just shut down. It isn't really doing anything long run for e-sports.
EDIT: Okay! Just read through the entire thread. Seems like MoW has gotten more professional over the past months. I hope it deals with all the bad press properly though. GL to MoW. Still don't know what to believe though.
People jumping to conclusions before hearing the other side of the story is the story of SC2 drama lol. You would think people would be intelligent enough to learn from past experience and not do that. It literally is a matter of intelligence, plain and simple.
On December 25 2012 17:21 Doodsmack wrote: People jumping to conclusions before hearing the other side of the story is the story of SC2 drama lol. You would think people would be intelligent enough to learn from past experience and not do that. It literally is a matter of intelligence, plain and simple.
Overestimating the significance of the "other side of the story" is the story of SC2 drama.
Most of the time, the other side of the story ends up being damage control PR. Even if not, both sides are inherently biased, so as long as there is no neutral side to story, the only thing that matters is whom you trust more to begin with.
Interesting fact is that recently MoW got a huge grant from some fund for creative business idea - apparently some gamers TV project as i recall correctly (about 4 million pln, about 1 million euro).
Wonder how they are going to push with this with their reputation being not that great. Anyone know something more on this?
EDIT: on topi: sadly not paying on time or ever is common practice in poland, specially when companies are run by foreigners.
On December 25 2012 20:28 TmzZ666 wrote: Interesting fact is that recently MoW got a huge grant from some fund for creative business idea - apparently some gamers TV project as i recall correctly (about 4 million pln, about 1 million euro).
Wonder how they are going to push with this with their reputation being not that great. Anyone know something more on this?
EDIT: on topi: sadly not paying on time or ever is common practice in poland, specially when companies are run by foreigners.
They got 1 million euro?
If thats true then they dont need to push anything anymore. The owner of MoW is set for life.
On December 25 2012 20:28 TmzZ666 wrote: Interesting fact is that recently MoW got a huge grant from some fund for creative business idea - apparently some gamers TV project as i recall correctly (about 4 million pln, about 1 million euro).
Wonder how they are going to push with this with their reputation being not that great. Anyone know something more on this?
EDIT: on topi: sadly not paying on time or ever is common practice in poland, specially when companies are run by foreigners.
They got 1 million euro?
If thats true then they dont need to push anything anymore. The owner of MoW is set for life.
On December 24 2012 00:44 PiQLiQ wrote: What's with this Ministry of win situation. Seems like its been so much trouble over nothing. And now they are not paying their staff? Well there is always 2 sides of the story so people shouldn't hop on the bandwagon before they heard from both.
MoW already has a bad history. (Food problem and player lodging/transfer problem)
So yeah people jumping the bandwagon isn't surprising.
What could the other side of the story possibly be? Multiple staffs are getting scammed, there is no excuse. Even if they come with some "We can't afford to pay them, although here is pictures of kitten to make up for our scam", they still deserve all shit comming their way.
On December 24 2012 00:40 Imzoo wrote: Some peaple are ruinning E-sport. You MoW have no ethic, you lost faith in your original goal.
You have a lot of luck that E-sport still new in regard of law respect because peaple would sue you to Hell.
How do you know what their original goal was?
No idea how it is in poland to start a business, but here in ger you have to have a business plan and define your goal there =D
Regarding that poor choice of tournament organizers, or cooks. That is a big problem any company/management has, the choice of good people (agents) for a task. Anyone of you will have the same problem at one point in your life, to chose the right agent for a task. So dont talk as if it is an easy thing to do
On December 25 2012 17:21 Doodsmack wrote: People jumping to conclusions before hearing the other side of the story is the story of SC2 drama lol. You would think people would be intelligent enough to learn from past experience and not do that. It literally is a matter of intelligence, plain and simple.
Overestimating the significance of the "other side of the story" is the story of SC2 drama.
Most of the time, the other side of the story ends up being damage control PR. Even if not, both sides are inherently biased, so as long as there is no neutral side to story, the only thing that matters is whom you trust more to begin with.
Um, very few people overestimate the significance of the other side lol. On the other hand, people are VERY quick to believe an OP and condemn whoever is being accused. That's not hard to observe. Just look at how many people took this OP at face value without asking a single question. Remember when Eclypsia was accused of deceiving its partners with its advertising method? That turned out not to be the case at all, so the drama queens had to fall back on the argument "well I don't like their advertising method". Remember when the TSL coach accused EG of poaching PuMa?
On principle, waiting to hear the other side of the story is the right thing to do. Your logic of believing an accuser if you feel him to be more trustworthy than the accused is patently absurd.
On December 25 2012 17:21 Doodsmack wrote: People jumping to conclusions before hearing the other side of the story is the story of SC2 drama lol. You would think people would be intelligent enough to learn from past experience and not do that. It literally is a matter of intelligence, plain and simple.
Overestimating the significance of the "other side of the story" is the story of SC2 drama.
Most of the time, the other side of the story ends up being damage control PR. Even if not, both sides are inherently biased, so as long as there is no neutral side to story, the only thing that matters is whom you trust more to begin with.
Um, very few people overestimate the significance of the other side lol. On the other hand, people are VERY quick to believe an OP and condemn whoever is being accused. That's not hard to observe. Just look at how many people took this OP at face value without asking a single question. Remember when Eclypsia was accused of deceiving its partners with its advertising method? That turned out not to be the case at all, so the drama queens had to fall back on the argument "well I don't like their advertising method". Remember when the TSL coach accused EG of poaching PuMa?
On principle, waiting to hear the other side of the story is the right thing to do. Your logic of believing an accuser if you feel him to be more trustworthy than the accused is patently absurd.
So yeah...learn from past experience please.
Poaching of Puma was only an issue because there is a portion of the community who think progamers who make a living are killing esports.
Well we haven't heard anything from them yet. When this thread started they could of posted something like " we will be announcing our side of the story very shortly etc" Seems weird they haven't dealt with this yet.
On December 25 2012 17:21 Doodsmack wrote: People jumping to conclusions before hearing the other side of the story is the story of SC2 drama lol. You would think people would be intelligent enough to learn from past experience and not do that. It literally is a matter of intelligence, plain and simple.
Overestimating the significance of the "other side of the story" is the story of SC2 drama.
Most of the time, the other side of the story ends up being damage control PR. Even if not, both sides are inherently biased, so as long as there is no neutral side to story, the only thing that matters is whom you trust more to begin with.
Um, very few people overestimate the significance of the other side lol. On the other hand, people are VERY quick to believe an OP and condemn whoever is being accused. That's not hard to observe. Just look at how many people took this OP at face value without asking a single question. Remember when Eclypsia was accused of deceiving its partners with its advertising method? That turned out not to be the case at all, so the drama queens had to fall back on the argument "well I don't like their advertising method". Remember when the TSL coach accused EG of poaching PuMa?
On principle, waiting to hear the other side of the story is the right thing to do. Your logic of believing an accuser if you feel him to be more trustworthy than the accused is patently absurd.
So yeah...learn from past experience please.
Remember when you tried to shit on a pro's career and accused him of maphacking? lol People are learning from past experience. Last time MoW tried to share their side of a conflict they posted a bunch of kitten pictures instead. Myself and many others don't care enough to wait for them to concoct another pathetic response. It's not like MoW is worth that much of our time anyways, guilty or innocent.
On December 24 2012 07:05 JazzNL wrote: I think TL should boycot MoW. They have no morals and they're in it for one thing, money, even if it means blatantly ripping people off, lying, scamming.
I'm waiting for the next thread about MoW's dispicable behavior, only to wait for the one after that.
Gotta love it. As soon as someone joins an online site they think they're part of something and already calling for boycots! I think you should do what you want to do, and not try to influence anyone else, let alone an entire website.
I am part of something, it's called a community.
Also, you're trying to influence me, try living by your own rules.
I'm not trying to be mean or funny here -- you need to shut up and think about what you're actually saying and doing.
Don't act all proud because you're somehow a part of this community, because by your posts in this thread you seem to be representing the part that emails sponsors and boycots stuff because they hear half the story and flip out. People like you are the people that get players removed from teams out of spite and email sponsors just to fuck people they don't like.
I wanna elaborate what Gentso said -- just because you are signed up for a site and are a "part of a community" doesn't mean you can act like you represent it or like you're a valued member even though you've contributed nothing.
On December 25 2012 20:28 TmzZ666 wrote: Interesting fact is that recently MoW got a huge grant from some fund for creative business idea - apparently some gamers TV project as i recall correctly (about 4 million pln, about 1 million euro).
Wonder how they are going to push with this with their reputation being not that great. Anyone know something more on this?
EDIT: on topi: sadly not paying on time or ever is common practice in poland, specially when companies are run by foreigners.
They got 1 million euro?
If thats true then they dont need to push anything anymore. The owner of MoW is set for life.
really? It's a pretty common scam, same as what was going on in russia for the Sochi olympics. set up a shit operation for the show, bribe an official to sign off, bill the government for gazillions.
if that's not inb4 polish wise guys explaining to mow management that sharing is caring.
Pretty huge bummer to know that they still haven't got their shit straight. There have been so many issues reported against MoW, you'd think they'd realized that something had to change.
It seems that many of these types of things are mis-managed. But let's not forget those entities like Quantic that treated their players fairly and generously.
I had the chance to speak with the founder when the house were in it´s early stages. The way it has all turned out is really sad. This project could have been so good but it seams like there arnt a lot positve said regarding the house.
They can still shape up but they will really have to struggle hard to get the trust of the scene back.
On December 25 2012 17:21 Doodsmack wrote: People jumping to conclusions before hearing the other side of the story is the story of SC2 drama lol. You would think people would be intelligent enough to learn from past experience and not do that. It literally is a matter of intelligence, plain and simple.
Overestimating the significance of the "other side of the story" is the story of SC2 drama.
Most of the time, the other side of the story ends up being damage control PR. Even if not, both sides are inherently biased, so as long as there is no neutral side to story, the only thing that matters is whom you trust more to begin with.
Um, very few people overestimate the significance of the other side lol. On the other hand, people are VERY quick to believe an OP and condemn whoever is being accused. That's not hard to observe. Just look at how many people took this OP at face value without asking a single question. Remember when Eclypsia was accused of deceiving its partners with its advertising method? That turned out not to be the case at all, so the drama queens had to fall back on the argument "well I don't like their advertising method". Remember when the TSL coach accused EG of poaching PuMa?
On principle, waiting to hear the other side of the story is the right thing to do. Your logic of believing an accuser if you feel him to be more trustworthy than the accused is patently absurd.
So yeah...learn from past experience please.
Your recollection of most of those situations is incomplete to say the least. In pretty much all the cases, people made up their mind based on the initial information (not necessarily in favor of the accuser - rather in favor of whoever they like/trust more). Most people stuck to their chosen side when story from the other side came out as well. In the end, the only thing that really matters is whether people like or dislike what somebody or some organization is doing.
I can't remember a single case of drama being caused by sheer confusion or misunderstanding. Most of the time, the sides involved did things that caused the conflict to escalate. People merely pass judgement based on their personal preferences and principles applied to the situation.
More fuel to the fire by a person that has lived in the MoW... read for yourself.
Yeah, this is a very good point, when you're there he treats you kinda like an employee with some of the things he does, it's extremely annoying, one example is he made it mandatory to be awake for breakfast, which is fair enough however some players prefer playing later than others or had to stay awake late to play qualifiers and tournaments and such, after a few people woke up late and skipped breakfast (It was horrible anyway) he tried to start a new rule that he's locking the gaming room at 11pm or something like that so we were forced to go to sleep, he did this by putting up signs on the doors rather than just telling us. OH! also he sometimes would make you miss the only hot meal of the day if you woke up late as punishment, these are just a few examples of the type of person the "boss" is.
More fuel to the fire by a person that has lived in the MoW... read for yourself.
Yeah, this is a very good point, when you're there he treats you kinda like an employee with some of the things he does, it's extremely annoying, one example is he made it mandatory to be awake for breakfast, which is fair enough however some players prefer playing later than others or had to stay awake late to play qualifiers and tournaments and such, after a few people woke up late and skipped breakfast (It was horrible anyway) he tried to start a new rule that he's locking the gaming room at 11pm or something like that so we were forced to go to sleep, he did this by putting up signs on the doors rather than just telling us. OH! also he sometimes would make you miss the only hot meal of the day if you woke up late as punishment, these are just a few examples of the type of person the "boss" is.
Some of the things sounds strange and out right wrong But proper sleep and having a good sleep schedule is very important. Maybe the one who posted that did not fully understand the argument behind being awake at a certain time and being to bed at a certain time. sun exposure is also a good thing. Sitting behind a PC all day gets you in a slump and in the long in the end is counter productive.
But yes. I think it's good that MoW is finally out of the picture. To bad people wasted theri time on it
On December 29 2012 21:25 Kloster wrote: Some of the things sounds strange and out right wrong But proper sleep and having a good sleep schedule is very important. Maybe the one who posted that did not fully understand the argument behind being awake at a certain time and being to bed at a certain time.
The concept sounds so strange to me, is that a prison ? Who are they to tell people when they should go to sleep or wake up ? Especially if they're paying, why would their freedom be disrespected.. ?
Yeah, this is a very good point, when you're there he treats you kinda like an employee with some of the things he does, it's extremely annoying, one example is he made it mandatory to be awake for breakfast, which is fair enough however some players prefer playing later than others or had to stay awake late to play qualifiers and tournaments and such, after a few people woke up late and skipped breakfast (It was horrible anyway) he tried to start a new rule that he's locking the gaming room at 11pm or something like that so we were forced to go to sleep, he did this by putting up signs on the doors rather than just telling us. OH! also he sometimes would make you miss the only hot meal of the day if you woke up late as punishment, these are just a few examples of the type of person the "boss" is.
Sounds more like army than a gaming house except the punishment with meals, lol.
Not just the best and the brightest surface for exciting eSports initiatives. This is proof of that and all the more reason to be excited for the new ventures but verify that they are indeed all they're cracked up to be.
Yeah, this is a very good point, when you're there he treats you kinda like an employee with some of the things he does, it's extremely annoying, one example is he made it mandatory to be awake for breakfast, which is fair enough however some players prefer playing later than others or had to stay awake late to play qualifiers and tournaments and such, after a few people woke up late and skipped breakfast (It was horrible anyway) he tried to start a new rule that he's locking the gaming room at 11pm or something like that so we were forced to go to sleep, he did this by putting up signs on the doors rather than just telling us. OH! also he sometimes would make you miss the only hot meal of the day if you woke up late as punishment, these are just a few examples of the type of person the "boss" is.
I don't understand how he can put in rules like that. The players there aren't like employees. To my understanding isn't it more like they are clients? He's providing a service (gaming house), but players are paying him rent/costs etc right?
On December 29 2012 21:25 Kloster wrote: Some of the things sounds strange and out right wrong But proper sleep and having a good sleep schedule is very important. Maybe the one who posted that did not fully understand the argument behind being awake at a certain time and being to bed at a certain time.
The concept sounds so strange to me, is that a prison ? Who are they to tell people when they should go to sleep or wake up ? Especially if they're paying, why would their freedom be disrespected.. ?
Have you ever been to a boarding school? People pay for the privilege to have a strict educational / training environment with schedules. I know it's easy to hate on MoW but this is just ridiculous.
On December 29 2012 21:25 Kloster wrote: Some of the things sounds strange and out right wrong But proper sleep and having a good sleep schedule is very important. Maybe the one who posted that did not fully understand the argument behind being awake at a certain time and being to bed at a certain time.
The concept sounds so strange to me, is that a prison ? Who are they to tell people when they should go to sleep or wake up ? Especially if they're paying, why would their freedom be disrespected.. ?
Have you ever been to a boarding school? People pay for the privilege to have a strict educational / training environment with schedules. I know it's easy to hate on MoW but this is just ridiculous.
On December 29 2012 21:25 Kloster wrote: Some of the things sounds strange and out right wrong But proper sleep and having a good sleep schedule is very important. Maybe the one who posted that did not fully understand the argument behind being awake at a certain time and being to bed at a certain time.
The concept sounds so strange to me, is that a prison ? Who are they to tell people when they should go to sleep or wake up ? Especially if they're paying, why would their freedom be disrespected.. ?
Have you ever been to a boarding school? People pay for the privilege to have a strict educational / training environment with schedules. I know it's easy to hate on MoW but this is just ridiculous.
It's silly. Players need to stay awake until late to play most of the qualifiers/weekly cup. Are they supposed to just be up from 7am to 11pm and play ladder game, skip every qualifier/cup?
We are not talking about asking the players to get at least 8 hours of sleep to be at their mental peak, wich would be fair/smart, we are talking about locking the gaming room during a time that is crucial for every amateur players. It's not "strict", it's stupid.
On December 29 2012 21:25 Kloster wrote: Some of the things sounds strange and out right wrong But proper sleep and having a good sleep schedule is very important. Maybe the one who posted that did not fully understand the argument behind being awake at a certain time and being to bed at a certain time.
The concept sounds so strange to me, is that a prison ? Who are they to tell people when they should go to sleep or wake up ? Especially if they're paying, why would their freedom be disrespected.. ?
Have you ever been to a boarding school? People pay for the privilege to have a strict educational / training environment with schedules. I know it's easy to hate on MoW but this is just ridiculous.
You have gotta be kidding me :D
He's right! Prep schools for elite athletes are common in North America
On December 29 2012 21:25 Kloster wrote: Some of the things sounds strange and out right wrong But proper sleep and having a good sleep schedule is very important. Maybe the one who posted that did not fully understand the argument behind being awake at a certain time and being to bed at a certain time.
The concept sounds so strange to me, is that a prison ? Who are they to tell people when they should go to sleep or wake up ? Especially if they're paying, why would their freedom be disrespected.. ?
Have you ever been to a boarding school? People pay for the privilege to have a strict educational / training environment with schedules. I know it's easy to hate on MoW but this is just ridiculous.
You have gotta be kidding me :D
He's right! Prep schools for elite athletes are common in North America
Not just elite athletes, private schools for secondary and and even primary education usually have sleep schedules and set times for breakfast, some times even with attendance. Not to mention if you take this to Asia it's even more strict, so I don't know why this is a big fuss especially when you consider the south korean training regiments.
On December 29 2012 21:25 Kloster wrote: Some of the things sounds strange and out right wrong But proper sleep and having a good sleep schedule is very important. Maybe the one who posted that did not fully understand the argument behind being awake at a certain time and being to bed at a certain time.
The concept sounds so strange to me, is that a prison ? Who are they to tell people when they should go to sleep or wake up ? Especially if they're paying, why would their freedom be disrespected.. ?
Have you ever been to a boarding school? People pay for the privilege to have a strict educational / training environment with schedules. I know it's easy to hate on MoW but this is just ridiculous.
You have gotta be kidding me :D
He's right! Prep schools for elite athletes are common in North America
Not just elite athletes, private schools for secondary and and even primary education usually have sleep schedules and set times for breakfast, some times even with attendance. Not to mention if you take this to Asia it's even more strict, so I don't know why this is a big fuss especially when you consider the south korean training regiments.
You're talking about minors who were sent off to school by their parents/guardians. I think if you're over 18 you should be able to make your own schedule (unless you're in the military)
On December 29 2012 21:25 Kloster wrote: Some of the things sounds strange and out right wrong But proper sleep and having a good sleep schedule is very important. Maybe the one who posted that did not fully understand the argument behind being awake at a certain time and being to bed at a certain time.
The concept sounds so strange to me, is that a prison ? Who are they to tell people when they should go to sleep or wake up ? Especially if they're paying, why would their freedom be disrespected.. ?
Have you ever been to a boarding school? People pay for the privilege to have a strict educational / training environment with schedules. I know it's easy to hate on MoW but this is just ridiculous.
That's different. They are paying for a higher education there with proven teachers, better than public curriculum, 3 square meals a day, elite coaches, and other "elite" children while also instilling discipline on the children. These are grown men paying to go to a house with no elite coaches, terrible meals, average players, in an unproven environment to be ultimately treated like shit.
On December 29 2012 21:25 Kloster wrote: Some of the things sounds strange and out right wrong But proper sleep and having a good sleep schedule is very important. Maybe the one who posted that did not fully understand the argument behind being awake at a certain time and being to bed at a certain time.
The concept sounds so strange to me, is that a prison ? Who are they to tell people when they should go to sleep or wake up ? Especially if they're paying, why would their freedom be disrespected.. ?
Have you ever been to a boarding school? People pay for the privilege to have a strict educational / training environment with schedules. I know it's easy to hate on MoW but this is just ridiculous.
That's different. They are paying for a higher education there with proven teachers, better than public curriculum, 3 square meals a day, elite coaches, and other "elite" children while also instilling discipline on the children. These are grown men paying to go to a house with no elite coaches, terrible meals, average players, in an unproven environment to be ultimately treated like shit.
The theory is still the same. You saying the execution is lacking is just an opinion (although I do agree).
On December 29 2012 21:25 Kloster wrote: Some of the things sounds strange and out right wrong But proper sleep and having a good sleep schedule is very important. Maybe the one who posted that did not fully understand the argument behind being awake at a certain time and being to bed at a certain time.
The concept sounds so strange to me, is that a prison ? Who are they to tell people when they should go to sleep or wake up ? Especially if they're paying, why would their freedom be disrespected.. ?
Have you ever been to a boarding school? People pay for the privilege to have a strict educational / training environment with schedules. I know it's easy to hate on MoW but this is just ridiculous.
I'm not hating on MoW, I just don't understand how anybody could pay for their "services".
To me it looks like they've reverted the concept of a pro team. In those, the team pays the pro gamer a salary, trains him, feeds him, the player is asked to stream, participate in tournaments, etc.. rings a bell ? Isn't it very similar to what MoW "offers" ?
So why are the players paying MoW ? Shouldn't it be the opposite ?
I'm not hating on MoW, I just don't understand how anybody could pay for their "services".
To me it looks like they've reverted the concept of a pro team. In those, the team pays the pro gamer a salary, trains him, feeds him, the player is asked to stream, participate in tournaments, etc.. rings a bell ? Isn't it very similar to what MoW "offers" ?
So why are the players paying MoW ? Shouldn't it be the opposite ?
They pay them for being able to play without any distraction. And you really shouldnt argue about things that you dont even know a bit.
My polish friend Indy (you might know him as a player) was set to go to MoW, when I heard about how they were asked to pay 500 euro or whatever it was to stay there I talked him out of it. Instead I suggested that he rented an apartment in the city and lived by himself for that kind of money (it's possible in poland), which he did. He doesn't regret it one bit and he streamed from there aswell. So my question is, why do people pay MoW so much money just to "play without distraction", when you infact can live, have good internet, and eat off of that money in Poland?
On January 04 2013 21:00 MyXoMoPBL wrote: My polish friend Indy (you might know him as a player) was set to go to MoW, when I heard about how they were asked to pay 500 euro or whatever it was to stay there I talked him out of it. Instead I suggested that he rented an apartment in the city and lived by himself for that kind of money (it's possible in poland), which he did. He doesn't regret it one bit and he streamed from there aswell. So my question is, why do people pay MoW so much money just to "play without distraction", when you infact can live, have good internet, and eat off of that money in Poland?
Because you have to cook, make laundry, dishes,.....
On January 04 2013 21:00 MyXoMoPBL wrote: My polish friend Indy (you might know him as a player) was set to go to MoW, when I heard about how they were asked to pay 500 euro or whatever it was to stay there I talked him out of it. Instead I suggested that he rented an apartment in the city and lived by himself for that kind of money (it's possible in poland), which he did. He doesn't regret it one bit and he streamed from there aswell. So my question is, why do people pay MoW so much money just to "play without distraction", when you infact can live, have good internet, and eat off of that money in Poland?
Well i will disagree here, 500 euro is a little more than 2000 pln. Lets calculate a bit. Rent a flat in Warsaw, hmm thats it for a calculation.
But seriosly, its very hard to live for 500 euro monthly in warsaw, i dont know other parts of Poland.
The rule of a thumb is you have to be skeptic in proportion to how awesome the project is when it comes from relatively uncorfirmed people.
If the contracts were proper this will be shortlived drama.
And about the second topic that is being discussed, no the general idea of MoW wes correct its the execution that was wrong. It is nothing wrong to buy a training, you will never get an equivalent environment to a room full of pros and the mental mindset of "being in teamhouse".
On January 04 2013 21:00 MyXoMoPBL wrote: My polish friend Indy (you might know him as a player) was set to go to MoW, when I heard about how they were asked to pay 500 euro or whatever it was to stay there I talked him out of it. Instead I suggested that he rented an apartment in the city and lived by himself for that kind of money (it's possible in poland), which he did. He doesn't regret it one bit and he streamed from there aswell. So my question is, why do people pay MoW so much money just to "play without distraction", when you infact can live, have good internet, and eat off of that money in Poland?
Well i will disagree here, 500 euro is a little more than 2000 pln. Lets calculate a bit. Rent a flat in Warsaw, hmm thats it for a calculation.
But seriosly, its very hard to live for 500 euro monthly in warsaw, i dont know other parts of Poland.
He pulled it off, and I know that for a fact. Not saying I know which city it was, because I don't - but I know that he pulled it off. He only had a salary from eclypsia that didn't cover the living expenses, so he had to play cups to make up for the rest. He told me 350 euro was what he needed each month to be able to live, and he made it. So 500 euro should be plenty.
On January 04 2013 21:00 MyXoMoPBL wrote: My polish friend Indy (you might know him as a player) was set to go to MoW, when I heard about how they were asked to pay 500 euro or whatever it was to stay there I talked him out of it. Instead I suggested that he rented an apartment in the city and lived by himself for that kind of money (it's possible in poland), which he did. He doesn't regret it one bit and he streamed from there aswell. So my question is, why do people pay MoW so much money just to "play without distraction", when you infact can live, have good internet, and eat off of that money in Poland?
Well i will disagree here, 500 euro is a little more than 2000 pln. Lets calculate a bit. Rent a flat in Warsaw, hmm thats it for a calculation.
But seriosly, its very hard to live for 500 euro monthly in warsaw, i dont know other parts of Poland.
He pulled it off, and I know that for a fact. Not saying I know which city it was, because I don't - but I know that he pulled it off. He only had a salary from eclypsia that didn't cover the living expenses, so he had to play cups to make up for the rest. He told me 350 euro was what he needed each month to be able to live, and he made it. So 500 euro should be plenty.
350? How do you survive on that? that is a bit more then 10 euro/day. Not even accounting stuff like rent/transport.
On January 04 2013 21:00 MyXoMoPBL wrote: My polish friend Indy (you might know him as a player) was set to go to MoW, when I heard about how they were asked to pay 500 euro or whatever it was to stay there I talked him out of it. Instead I suggested that he rented an apartment in the city and lived by himself for that kind of money (it's possible in poland), which he did. He doesn't regret it one bit and he streamed from there aswell. So my question is, why do people pay MoW so much money just to "play without distraction", when you infact can live, have good internet, and eat off of that money in Poland?
Well i will disagree here, 500 euro is a little more than 2000 pln. Lets calculate a bit. Rent a flat in Warsaw, hmm thats it for a calculation.
But seriosly, its very hard to live for 500 euro monthly in warsaw, i dont know other parts of Poland.
He pulled it off, and I know that for a fact. Not saying I know which city it was, because I don't - but I know that he pulled it off. He only had a salary from eclypsia that didn't cover the living expenses, so he had to play cups to make up for the rest. He told me 350 euro was what he needed each month to be able to live, and he made it. So 500 euro should be plenty.
I didnt said that it was imposibble, im only saying its not the way to live in long terms. Human being can survive without food for 30 days.
On January 04 2013 21:00 MyXoMoPBL wrote: My polish friend Indy (you might know him as a player) was set to go to MoW, when I heard about how they were asked to pay 500 euro or whatever it was to stay there I talked him out of it. Instead I suggested that he rented an apartment in the city and lived by himself for that kind of money (it's possible in poland), which he did. He doesn't regret it one bit and he streamed from there aswell. So my question is, why do people pay MoW so much money just to "play without distraction", when you infact can live, have good internet, and eat off of that money in Poland?
Well i will disagree here, 500 euro is a little more than 2000 pln. Lets calculate a bit. Rent a flat in Warsaw, hmm thats it for a calculation.
But seriosly, its very hard to live for 500 euro monthly in warsaw, i dont know other parts of Poland.
He pulled it off, and I know that for a fact. Not saying I know which city it was, because I don't - but I know that he pulled it off. He only had a salary from eclypsia that didn't cover the living expenses, so he had to play cups to make up for the rest. He told me 350 euro was what he needed each month to be able to live, and he made it. So 500 euro should be plenty.
I don't know what were his living conditions, but 350 euro is very, very little. It won't get you an apartment in any major city, it might get you a small, single room (akin to a cell) in somebody's apartment and I bet it wouldn't cost less than 200 euro a month.
Like the person above me said - it is most definitely possible to pull off, but it's nowhere near the standard of living in MoW (even if all you get to eat are fries, and I heard that changed for the better already). Right now, I'm living on what I deem a very limited budget and that means I can't spend more than a thousand euro a month. I live in a 66m2 flat and rent alone is 200 euro and that's considered quite cheap. And then there are other bills - electric, internet, gas, food, transportation. You need to take care of your household, as well. Sometimes you'll fall ill - this costs money, too. I can believe he survived for 350 euro / month, but I'd rather not live like a cockroach.
On January 04 2013 21:00 MyXoMoPBL wrote: My polish friend Indy (you might know him as a player) was set to go to MoW, when I heard about how they were asked to pay 500 euro or whatever it was to stay there I talked him out of it. Instead I suggested that he rented an apartment in the city and lived by himself for that kind of money (it's possible in poland), which he did. He doesn't regret it one bit and he streamed from there aswell. So my question is, why do people pay MoW so much money just to "play without distraction", when you infact can live, have good internet, and eat off of that money in Poland?
Well i will disagree here, 500 euro is a little more than 2000 pln. Lets calculate a bit. Rent a flat in Warsaw, hmm thats it for a calculation.
But seriosly, its very hard to live for 500 euro monthly in warsaw, i dont know other parts of Poland.
He pulled it off, and I know that for a fact. Not saying I know which city it was, because I don't - but I know that he pulled it off. He only had a salary from eclypsia that didn't cover the living expenses, so he had to play cups to make up for the rest. He told me 350 euro was what he needed each month to be able to live, and he made it. So 500 euro should be plenty.
350? How do you survive on that? that is a bit more then 10 euro/day. Not even accounting stuff like rent/transport.
By eating maybe 1 meal a day+a snack to tide you over till the next day at some time, its possible for 1 person especially if they don't eat a lot and don't do...anything except getting supplies and paying bills. I should know =D, Im pretty much the same way in America. I don't really go out at all(i did make a minor exception and went out with a friend and his dad on new years for a really fancy dinner but thats because it was on my friends company.) but other then that, I only venture out roughly once a week for food/laundry stuff/hygiene stuff and just stay at home with my bad ass computer and TV playing games and watching netflix/hulu(best part man, internet+netflix/hulu/crunchyroll is still!!! cheaper then ANY cable package I can get, and i still get all the shows I want to stay current on through Hulu+Antenna for major networks if Im feeling like watching "real TV"). Its all about "sacrifice" and being smart with your money.
But on the flip side I know lots of people who can't do this because they hate being at home with "nothing" to do.
On January 04 2013 21:00 MyXoMoPBL wrote: My polish friend Indy (you might know him as a player) was set to go to MoW, when I heard about how they were asked to pay 500 euro or whatever it was to stay there I talked him out of it. Instead I suggested that he rented an apartment in the city and lived by himself for that kind of money (it's possible in poland), which he did. He doesn't regret it one bit and he streamed from there aswell. So my question is, why do people pay MoW so much money just to "play without distraction", when you infact can live, have good internet, and eat off of that money in Poland?
Well i will disagree here, 500 euro is a little more than 2000 pln. Lets calculate a bit. Rent a flat in Warsaw, hmm thats it for a calculation.
But seriosly, its very hard to live for 500 euro monthly in warsaw, i dont know other parts of Poland.
He pulled it off, and I know that for a fact. Not saying I know which city it was, because I don't - but I know that he pulled it off. He only had a salary from eclypsia that didn't cover the living expenses, so he had to play cups to make up for the rest. He told me 350 euro was what he needed each month to be able to live, and he made it. So 500 euro should be plenty.
350? How do you survive on that? that is a bit more then 10 euro/day. Not even accounting stuff like rent/transport.
It's not like he has a bachelor pad or something... he wants a place to practice and stuff, not to party. If you pay MoW 500euro/month, you still need money to do other stuff anyway. It's basically the same.
On January 04 2013 21:00 MyXoMoPBL wrote: My polish friend Indy (you might know him as a player) was set to go to MoW, when I heard about how they were asked to pay 500 euro or whatever it was to stay there I talked him out of it. Instead I suggested that he rented an apartment in the city and lived by himself for that kind of money (it's possible in poland), which he did. He doesn't regret it one bit and he streamed from there aswell. So my question is, why do people pay MoW so much money just to "play without distraction", when you infact can live, have good internet, and eat off of that money in Poland?
Well i will disagree here, 500 euro is a little more than 2000 pln. Lets calculate a bit. Rent a flat in Warsaw, hmm thats it for a calculation.
But seriosly, its very hard to live for 500 euro monthly in warsaw, i dont know other parts of Poland.
He pulled it off, and I know that for a fact. Not saying I know which city it was, because I don't - but I know that he pulled it off. He only had a salary from eclypsia that didn't cover the living expenses, so he had to play cups to make up for the rest. He told me 350 euro was what he needed each month to be able to live, and he made it. So 500 euro should be plenty.
I don't know what were his living conditions, but 350 euro is very, very little. It won't get you an apartment in any major city, it might get you a small, single room (akin to a cell) in somebody's apartment and I bet it wouldn't cost less than 200 euro a month.
Like the person above me said - it is most definitely possible to pull off, but it's nowhere near the standard of living in MoW (even if all you get to eat are fries, and I heard that changed for the better already). Right now, I'm living on what I deem a very limited budget and that means I can't spend more than a thousand euro a month. I live in a 66m2 flat and rent alone is 200 euro and that's considered quite cheap. And then there are other bills - electric, internet, gas, food, transportation. You need to take care of your household, as well. Sometimes you'll fall ill - this costs money, too. I can believe he survived for 350 euro / month, but I'd rather not live like a cockroach.
18:06 - 小鳥遊十花: hey 18:06 - 小鳥遊十花: how much cash did you need to survive a month when u lived by yourself? 18:07 - Indy: i think about 300 eur 18:07 - Indy: but its like 18:07 - 小鳥遊十花: and was it hard to live on it? 18:07 - Indy: poor life 18:07 - 小鳥遊十花: did u get to eat? 18:07 - Indy: 400 eur is "fine" 18:08 - 小鳥遊十花: your apartment was just a single room, kitchen and toilet right? 18:08 - Indy: 2 rooms 18:08 - Indy: kitchen and toliet 18:08 - 小鳥遊十花: how many meals/day could you afford? 18:08 - Indy: well 3 18:08 - Indy: xd 18:08 - 小鳥遊十花: which city did you live in? 18:08 - Indy: Ciechanów 18:08 - Indy: why?
300 to survive with 3 meals a day, 400 to have a "normal" life. and 500? you do the math.
edit; 18:12 - Indy: i think 500 eur 18:12 - Indy: is verrrrrrryyyyyy 18:12 - Indy: easy 18:12 - Indy: to live
and you can't even say anything to counter my statement, since he has actually done it.
On January 04 2013 21:00 MyXoMoPBL wrote: My polish friend Indy (you might know him as a player) was set to go to MoW, when I heard about how they were asked to pay 500 euro or whatever it was to stay there I talked him out of it. Instead I suggested that he rented an apartment in the city and lived by himself for that kind of money (it's possible in poland), which he did. He doesn't regret it one bit and he streamed from there aswell. So my question is, why do people pay MoW so much money just to "play without distraction", when you infact can live, have good internet, and eat off of that money in Poland?
Well i will disagree here, 500 euro is a little more than 2000 pln. Lets calculate a bit. Rent a flat in Warsaw, hmm thats it for a calculation.
But seriosly, its very hard to live for 500 euro monthly in warsaw, i dont know other parts of Poland.
He pulled it off, and I know that for a fact. Not saying I know which city it was, because I don't - but I know that he pulled it off. He only had a salary from eclypsia that didn't cover the living expenses, so he had to play cups to make up for the rest. He told me 350 euro was what he needed each month to be able to live, and he made it. So 500 euro should be plenty.
I don't know what were his living conditions, but 350 euro is very, very little. It won't get you an apartment in any major city, it might get you a small, single room (akin to a cell) in somebody's apartment and I bet it wouldn't cost less than 200 euro a month.
Like the person above me said - it is most definitely possible to pull off, but it's nowhere near the standard of living in MoW (even if all you get to eat are fries, and I heard that changed for the better already). Right now, I'm living on what I deem a very limited budget and that means I can't spend more than a thousand euro a month. I live in a 66m2 flat and rent alone is 200 euro and that's considered quite cheap. And then there are other bills - electric, internet, gas, food, transportation. You need to take care of your household, as well. Sometimes you'll fall ill - this costs money, too. I can believe he survived for 350 euro / month, but I'd rather not live like a cockroach.
must be quite expensive in your area, for my family of 3 we don't even spend that a month.
On a serious note, they'll end up launching their new place sooner or later and anyone who goes if drama comes out of it....can't say I'd feel all that sorry for them.
I'm sure in a week they'll release another of a long line of statements that doesn't really specifically answer anything and the community will drum up the pitch forks again.
MyXoMoPBL i see You have to be on top. Well ok, im just saying that 500 is really small amount of money for a monthly living cost in Poland, Warsaw. But its individual case i guess, one can live for 400 and say its fine, and for the othet 1000 is not enough. It all depends on what standards are you used to.
My main point was to show you guys that living in Poland, Warsaw is not that cheap as it sounded from Your statement. MoW is located in warsaw, am i corect?
On January 05 2013 04:58 TmzZ666 wrote: MyXoMoPBL i see You have to be on top. Well ok, im just saying that 500 is really small amount of money for a monthly living cost in Poland, Warsaw. But its individual case i guess, one can live for 400 and say its fine, and for the othet 1000 is not enough. It all depends on what standards are you used to.
My main point was to show you guys that living in Poland, Warsaw is not that cheap as it sounded from Your statement. MoW is located in warsaw, am i corect?
Well, I'm actually able to live in Warsaw for less than 500 euro in an okay standard. Flat is 200, and you've got 300 for food and entertainment. It's absolutely possible to pull off, provided u don't eat sushi 3 times a day. If I refrained from occasional partying, I would easily make it with ~400.
On January 05 2013 04:58 TmzZ666 wrote: MyXoMoPBL i see You have to be on top. Well ok, im just saying that 500 is really small amount of money for a monthly living cost in Poland, Warsaw. But its individual case i guess, one can live for 400 and say its fine, and for the othet 1000 is not enough. It all depends on what standards are you used to.
My main point was to show you guys that living in Poland, Warsaw is not that cheap as it sounded from Your statement. MoW is located in warsaw, am i corect?
You missed the whole point of me writing the initial post, it wasn't to badmouth poland or anything - I was asking why one would choose to pay to stay at MoW rather than do something on their own for that kind of money.
I'm not hating on MoW, I just don't understand how anybody could pay for their "services".
To me it looks like they've reverted the concept of a pro team. In those, the team pays the pro gamer a salary, trains him, feeds him, the player is asked to stream, participate in tournaments, etc.. rings a bell ? Isn't it very similar to what MoW "offers" ?
So why are the players paying MoW ? Shouldn't it be the opposite ?
They pay them for being able to play without any distraction. And you really shouldnt argue about things that you dont even know a bit.
Argue ? Where am I arguing ? I'm genuinely asking what I think is a legitimate question.
I don't get how "playing without distraction" amounts for the difference between getting paid a salary as a pro player in a pro team, and having to pay to live at MoW.
Take a very practical example: the EG house vs MoW.
In both cases, the players get a room and a place to live in, right ? In both cases, the players can train and get coaching, right ? In both cases, the players are expected to stream, and can go to participate in tournaments, right ? In both cases, the housing tasks, cleaning, food, is given by the organization, right ?
Yet at EG players receive a salary, at MoW they have to pay. Please let me understand.
I'm not hating on MoW, I just don't understand how anybody could pay for their "services".
To me it looks like they've reverted the concept of a pro team. In those, the team pays the pro gamer a salary, trains him, feeds him, the player is asked to stream, participate in tournaments, etc.. rings a bell ? Isn't it very similar to what MoW "offers" ?
So why are the players paying MoW ? Shouldn't it be the opposite ?
They pay them for being able to play without any distraction. And you really shouldnt argue about things that you dont even know a bit.
Argue ? Where am I arguing ? I'm genuinely asking what I think is a legitimate question.
I don't get how "playing without distraction" amounts for the difference between getting paid a salary as a pro player in a pro team, and having to pay to live at MoW.
Take a very practical example: the EG house vs MoW.
In both cases, the players get a room and a place to live in, right ? In both cases, the players can train and get coaching, right ? In both cases, the players are expected to stream, and can go to participate in tournaments, right ? In both cases, the housing tasks, cleaning, food, is given by the organization, right ?
Yet at EG players receive a salary, at MoW they have to pay. Please let me understand.
one is a team house for team members and one is an independent organization.