The (Smaller) Elephant in the Room - Stephano set to enter SPL, GSL
Ilyes “Stephano” Satouri, a 19 year-old Zerg player, would be in the first handful of players to ever be elected into a Starcraft 2 Hall of Fame, if one should ever exist. He has dominated the foreigner scene and won over nearly every one of our hearts since the day he stepped into the spotlight. We love his demeanor, his personality, his antics, and his fond connection to afterparties. Now Stephano is set to enter the Pro League with EG-TL, and is interested in competing in the GSL, as he is able to stay in Korea for a longer period of time. This has understandably created much discussion in the community - can Stephano compete at what we hold to be the highest level of competition? Can he compete against Kespa players? Can he compete with the most dedicated Korean players, in a way most other foreigners have not? To answer this, we need look no further than this track record as it can sometimes be difficult to put one player’s success into perspective. My answer is this: Stephano has competed against the greatest, and more than that, he has beaten all that have come his way.
Stephano was never one to start small - there was no time in which he struggled as a “mid level pro,” handily beating whatever huge names were thrown his way as soon as he reached tournament play. In his first major appearance, the IGN ProLeague season 3 qualifier, Stephano vaulted himself all the way to first place after defeating Socke, Revival, Puzzle, Kiwikaki, and MMA, at a time where maps like Xel’Naga Caverns, dreaded by zergs, were still in the map pool.
Stephano didn’t stop there. He rode his first place finish in the qualifier straight to the IPL3 victory lane, seemingly laughing at any who got in his way - he defeated Huk, Boxer, Violet, Inori, TheSTC, and Lucky to take home the gold. It wasn't easy - just kidding, it was. Stephano was so dominate that it was hard to predict anyone could beat him after this run.
On Stephano’s next stop on his way to the bank, he passed a European tournament, the 2011 Electronic Sports Word Cup, and promptly demolished the competition. One by one, greats fell to the zerglings of Stephano - first Slivko, then Grubby, Nightend, Axslav, and Cloud, followed by MarineKing, and in the championship matches, Mana (who was so hot at the time he had just won 2-0 over Socke, MC, and Grubby).
In the next major tournament, the 2011 Gsl Blizzard Cup, Stephano performed *slightly* worse - losing to the 3rd and 4th place finishers MC and MVP, but not before defeating DongRaeGu and Hero, whose PvZ was believed to be the best in the world at the time.
In the flash of an eye, Stephano stormed through the SHOUTcraft Invitational #4, handily dismantling Darkforce, Nightend, Grubby, and Thorzain, grabbing his check, and headed right to the bank.
Next stop? ASUS ROG Winter 2012. Stephano took a strong start right to the semifinals - defeating Real, Elfi, going 3-0 against Puma, and losing to Polt in the finals. As a testament to Puma’s TvZ at the time, he would go on to beat Lucky 3-0 in the 3rd place match after going 0-3 against Stephano.
Stephano then took a trip to the Lone Star State, defeating White-Ra 5-1 in a $5,000 showmatch, and then entered the Lone Star Clash where his latest nemesis, Polt, was also a competitor. Here Stephano bested Hawk, Grubby, White-Ra, and even defeated Polt 2-1 in the quarter finals to face Polt again in the finals. Polt had beaten him before, had seen his strategies just moments before in their previous match in the tournament - surely Polt, a seasoned TSL veteran, could manage to take the series or keep it close. The result? Stephano won again 3-1, taking home the trophy. He was just too strong, and definitively took the edge in his rivalry with Polt for good.
In IPL4, Stephano showed some mixed results, if one could even call it that. He beat White-Ra and Curious, but fell 1-2 to MarineKing and 1-2 to Nestea.
After IPL4 it Stephano seemed to be on the prowl for some “easy” competition. The TakeTV Reloaded Invitational was Stephano’s next play thing, where Stephano defeated Illusion, Mana, Monchi, Socke, and followed that by besting Grubby 3-0 and Kas, arguably the best European on European turf, 4-0. Stephano was untouchable.
Stephano faced another large challenge in the 2012 MLG Spring Arena with a tough road to the finals against Ryung, Ret, MC, and Heart. But don’t worry, he beat all of them. He finally succumbed to greats Violet and Symbol in the final rounds.
The Red Bull Battlegrounds was, with the energy drinks, heated competition, and awful, awful shirts, Stephano’s next destination. His first victim was Violet, this time defeating him easily. Next was Illusion, who quickly fell, then in similar fashion Ganzi, and followed by that, Stephano took down the unbeatable Parting. Stephano lost an incredibly close series to MC 2-3, but then took down Squirtle 3-1 in the 3rd place match. Stephano had just gone 7-4 against three of the world’s best protoss players. Who else could achieve anything close to that feat?
I'm not sure who designed these shirts, but...
Stephano took his group at the next tournament, the 2012 MLG Pro Circuit Spring Championship, beating Polt, Alicia, Ganzi, Rain, and JYP - all previous GSL contenders. He could not follow up his group success in the playoff rounds, however, but his group record is nothing to dismiss.
NASL3 was Stephano’s next time to shine - he defeated Beastyqt, Hero, MC, and then 4-0’d Alicia to take his rightful spot as the champion. It almost seemed too easy for him; he seems like he could play blindfolded and still be a force to be reckoned with.
The next major tournament Stephano showed impressive results in was the 2012 MLG Summer Championship, where despite an early trip to the loser’s bracket due to his zerg rival Violet, he managed to defeat Heart twice, Rain, and TheSTC.
There is a new elephant in the room, and its going to get pointed out pretty quickly - Stephano, perhaps the greatest foreigner hope we ever may see in Wings of Liberty, is coming to GSL and SPL. Will he stand tall like he has in the past?
I have this feeling that stephano will face some zvz god in code S and then get unlucky and have to play another zvz. But if that doesn't happen then I think he can probably float a few seasons if he stays in korea
He'll be knocked out of Code S pretty quickly. Every Z in Code S is better than him at ZvZ and GSL is a way different monster than the foreign tournies he's been dicking around in. His a move roach hydra won't work vs a week + of preparation.
He'll be in the bottom quarter of GSL players skill wise, and while it's possible he can get lucky groups like Naniwa, this is the most stacked Code S season in the history of SC2-- there is no room for foreigners.
uh oh, Stephano fanboys vs Stephano haters round 2 *ding*
Personally, I think he'll probably end up like third in his ro16 group. Then possibly come back to code S in the chaos that HotS is sure to bring when the scene stays unstable for a little while (assuming everyone's code placement is left intact during the switch).
Understandably, Stephano is the greatest foreigner player around currently, and his results are a testament to that, but I still don't believe he will do that well in Korea. He even considers himself "lazy", and doesn't prepare as well as he could, compared to the Koreans who prepare extensively and study their players in all aspects (e.g strategies, maps, etc). Maybe ProLeague because KeSPA isn't really up there with the best beyond a few, but GSL will probably end pretty badly for Stephano. Any Zerg is likely to eliminate him, as any strong Terran or even a Protoss. Maybe he will succeed, but I really doubt it because he hasn't been performing as well as he could lately.
Not to feed the fire, but hasnt Stephano been studying/in school the past two years?? Thats why he couldn't commit to Korea before, but now im assuming hes done and is finally going to Korea?
I've played the guy many times in WC3, thankfully not as crazy as now but its no surprise to see him at the top of the foreigner scene. Anyone who's known about him for years know what he's capable of
If he has a good coach he'll do great, and he has I believe. Just pray the coaches puts enough time in him & that Stephano accepts all the help he can get. Don't think he'll make it past the ro16 otherwise
The last major tournament Stephano attended was the 2012 MLG Summer Championship,
How did you forget about:
WCS Europe Dreamhack Valencia ESWC BWC Dreamhack Winter IPL 5 Home Story Cup VI Lone Star Clash 2
Sure his results were mediocre in most of these tournaments, but I think WCS Europe should have been worth a paragraph.
I'll be honest, I skipped the unimpressive results. I suppose I should say "the last major tournament he performed well in." I did look at WCS (although I feel kinda silly for not inculding it now that I look at the prize pool), but I thought that saying he beat the likes of HasuObs, Dayshi, LoWeLy, and LucifroN was quiet to my point... no offense to them.
Just imagine if you combine Jaedong apm and Stephano macro, then you have probably created one of the best zergs in the world hopefully he can practice a lot with Jaedong!
On January 01 2013 07:22 decado90 wrote: ...His a move roach hydra won't work vs a week + of preparation...
Would it be fair to call Leenock a bad player because he typically masses roaches, goes nydus (as literally his game plan, if it fails he loses), and masses infestors (30+)? He doesn't have much depth in his play, but the guy knows how to win. Stephano isn't much different, besides the fact he doesn't make many infestors.
I want Stephano to succeed but my senses tell me his GSL stay will be short lived. Stephano is a bit of an enigma in regards to his practice habits and schedule and I think it all fall on that. If he really commits, trains with the other EG/TL players and doesn't party I think he may win some games. If he chooses to go out and not practice for long hours as he's hinted at I think he will be eaten alive like every other foreigner that's tried. GSL is simply too stacked to breeze through for anyone. A year ago I think Stephano could have stayed in GSL with his half assed attitude, now there's no way.
On January 01 2013 07:22 decado90 wrote: ...His a move roach hydra won't work vs a week + of preparation...
Would it be fair to call Leenock a bad player because he typically masses roaches, goes nydus (as literally his game plan, if it fails he loses), and masses infestors (30+)? He doesn't have much depth in his play, but the guy knows how to win. Stephano isn't much different, besides the fact he doesn't make many infestors.
You need to watch a few more Leenock games because he has more depth than any zerg competing right now.
On January 01 2013 07:21 iMrising wrote: I have this feeling that stephano will face some zvz god in code S and then get unlucky and have to play another zvz. But if that doesn't happen then I think he can probably float a few seasons if he stays in korea
If he stays in Korea I think is the big issue. I honestly don't see him staying there all that long, as I don't know why he would - all of the money seems to be in NA/EU events. In Korea its either win big in GSL or don't win at all :/
On January 01 2013 07:50 Grobyc wrote: Nice writeup, but I don't see how the elephant in the room in a fitting metaphor.
I write it partially in jest, and partially because Stephano has perhaps the best SC2 track record for a foreigner, the likes of which has never been seen in GSL or PL. Naniwa's records in comparison, as someone who people like to argue is one of the best foreigners, don't even come close.
On January 01 2013 07:14 SpacemanG wrote: The (Smaller) Elephant in the Room - Stephano set to enter SPL, GSL
Llyes “Stephano” Satouri, a 19 year-old Zerg player, would be in the first handful of players to ever be elected into a Starcraft 2 Hall of Fame, if one should ever exist. He has dominated the foreigner scene and won over nearly every one of our hearts since the day he stepped into the spotlight. We love his demeanor, his personality, his antics, and his fond connection to afterparties. Now Stephano is set to enter the Pro League with EG-TL, and is interested in competing in the GSL, as he is able to stay in Korea for a longer period of time. This has understandably created much discussion in the community - can Stephano compete at what we hold to be the highest level of competition? Can he compete against Kespa players? Can he compete with the most dedicated Korean players, in a way most other foreigners have not? To answer this, we need look no further than this track record as it can sometimes be difficult to put one player’s success into perspective. My answer is this: Stephano has competed against the greatest, and more than that, he has beaten all that have come his way.
Stephano was never one to start small - there was no time in which he struggled as a “mid level pro,” handily beating whatever huge names were thrown his way as soon as he reached tournament play. In his first major appearance, the IGN ProLeague season 3 qualifier, Stephano vaulted himself all the way to first place after defeating Socke, Revival, Puzzle, Kiwikaki, and MMA, at a time where maps like Xel’Naga Caverns, dreaded by zergs, were still in the map pool.
Stephano didn’t stop there. He rode his first place finish in the qualifier straight to the IPL3 victory lane, seemingly laughing at any who got in his way - he defeated Huk, Boxer, Violet, Inori, TheSTC, and Lucky to take home the gold. It wasn't easy - just kidding, it was. Stephano was so dominate that it was hard to predict anyone could beat him after this run.
On Stephano’s next stop on his way to the bank, he passed a European tournament, the 2011 Electronic Sports Word Cup, and promptly demolished the competition. One by one, greats fell to the zerglings of Stephano - first Slivko, then Grubby, Nightend, Axslav, and Cloud, followed by MarineKing, and in the championship matches, Mana (who was so hot at the time he had just won 2-0 over Socke, MC, and Grubby).
In the next major tournament, the 2011 Gsl Blizzard Cup, Stephano performed *slightly* worse - losing to the 3rd and 4th place finishers MC and MVP, but not before defeating DongRaeGu and Hero, whose PvZ was believed to be the best in the world at the time.
In the flash of an eye, Stephano stormed through the SHOUTcraft Invitational #4, handily dismantling Darkforce, Nightend, Grubby, and Thorzain, grabbing his check, and headed right to the bank.
Next stop? ASUS ROG Winter 2012. Stephano took a strong start right to the semifinals - defeating Real, Elfi, going 3-0 against Puma, and losing to Polt in the finals. As a testament to Puma’s TvZ at the time, he would go on to beat Lucky 3-0 in the 3rd place match after going 0-3 against Stephano.
Stephano then took a trip to the Lone Star State, defeating White-Ra 5-1 in a $5,000 showmatch, and then entered the Lone Star Clash where his latest nemesis, Polt, was also a competitor. Here Stephano bested Hawk, Grubby, White-Ra, and even defeated Polt 2-1 in the quarter finals to face Polt again in the finals. Polt had beaten him before, had seen his strategies just moments before in their previous match in the tournament - surely Polt, a seasoned TSL veteran, could manage to take the series or keep it close. The result? Stephano won again 3-1, taking home the trophy. He was just too strong, and definitively took the edge in his rivalry with Polt for good.
In IPL4, Stephano showed some mixed results, if one could even call it that. He beat White-Ra and Curious, but fell 1-2 to MarineKing and 1-2 to Nestea.
After IPL4 it Stephano seemed to be on the prowl for some “easy” competition. The TakeTV Reloaded Invitational was Stephano’s next play thing, where Stephano defeated Illusion, Mana, Monchi, Socke, and followed that by besting Grubby 3-0 and Kas, arguably the best European on European turf, 4-0. Stephano was untouchable.
Stephano faced another large challenge in the 2012 MLG Spring Arena with a tough road to the finals against Ryung, Ret, MC, and Heart. But don’t worry, he beat all of them. He finally succumbed to greats Violet and Symbol in the final rounds.
The Red Bull Battlegrounds was, with the energy drinks, heated competition, and awful, awful shirts, Stephano’s next destination. His first victim was Violet, this time defeating him easily. Next was Illusion, who quickly fell, then in similar fashion Ganzi, and followed by that, Stephano took down the unbeatable Parting. Stephano lost an incredibly close series to MC 2-3, but then took down Squirtle 3-1 in the 3rd place match. Stephano had just gone 7-4 against three of the world’s best protoss players. Who else could achieve anything close to that feat?
I'm not sure who designed these shirts, but...
Stephano took his group at the next tournament, the 2012 MLG Pro Circuit Spring Championship, beating Polt, Alicia, Ganzi, Rain, and JYP - all previous GSL contenders. He could not follow up his group success in the playoff rounds, however, but his group record is nothing to dismiss.
NASL3 was Stephano’s next time to shine - he defeated Beastyqt, Hero, MC, and then 4-0’d Alicia to take his rightful spot as the champion. It almost seemed too easy for him; he seems like he could play blindfolded and still be a force to be reckoned with.
The last major tournament Stephano attended was the 2012 MLG Summer Championship, where despite an early trip to the loser’s bracket due to his zerg rival Violet, he managed to defeat Heart twice, Rain, and TheSTC. This would be Stephano’s last great run before his suspension, and since then we have not had a chance to see Stephano in action.
There is a new elephant in the room, and its going to get pointed out pretty quickly - Stephano, perhaps the greatest foreigner hope we ever may see in Wings of Liberty, is coming to GSL and SPL. Will he stand tall like he has in the past?
I feel he will stay in code S for one season, then get knocked out in either the next one or the following season. Then he will get knocked out of code A, and probably fly back to europe or NA to focus on the big tournaments here. I mean he has shown success in the past, but it seems the last half-dozen tournaments or so he's pretty shakey. He really isn't that amazing, and with *SO MUCH* talent coming in from the brood war scene...I really can't imagine him being the foreigner hero. Its going to take a lot of luck for him to win
On January 01 2013 07:40 Walnuts wrote: Saying that all people love Stephano and that he should be elected to a SC2 hall of fame is not the truth, its the writers opinion.
I think most people like him no?
I think not...lots of people hate him for his elitism and either arrogant or childish remarks. Maybe others don't interpret it that way, but I don't think they're joking when they call him "pedophano" in chat
On January 01 2013 07:46 SupLilSon wrote: I want Stephano to succeed but my senses tell me his GSL stay will be short lived. Stephano is a bit of an enigma in regards to his practice habits and schedule and I think it all fall on that. If he really commits, trains with the other EG/TL players and doesn't party I think he may win some games. If he chooses to go out and not practice for long hours as he's hinted at I think he will be eaten alive like every other foreigner that's tried. GSL is simply too stacked to breeze through for anyone. A year ago I think Stephano could have stayed in GSL with his half assed attitude, now there's no way.
On January 01 2013 07:22 decado90 wrote: ...His a move roach hydra won't work vs a week + of preparation...
Would it be fair to call Leenock a bad player because he typically masses roaches, goes nydus (as literally his game plan, if it fails he loses), and masses infestors (30+)? He doesn't have much depth in his play, but the guy knows how to win. Stephano isn't much different, besides the fact he doesn't make many infestors.
You need to watch a few more Leenock games because he has more depth than any zerg competing right now.
On January 01 2013 07:44 ChoDing wrote: he will definitely be OKAY for Winner's League.
He will be terrible for preparation fights.
I agree with this. I don't think there are any foreigners that have what it takes to do well in a tournament with considerable preparation time.
I just don't agree with this logic. If you look at Stephano's play, he isn't a one trick pony, he doesn't try and surprise his opponents, and he doesn't rely on gimmicks or anything like that. If you give Stephano one map and one matchup to practice for days, what's the difference between him and the Korean pros? He's obviously a very solid player, and given an equal amount of time to prepare, its not like he's going to miss something massive or anything like that.
On January 01 2013 07:22 decado90 wrote: ...His a move roach hydra won't work vs a week + of preparation...
Would it be fair to call Leenock a bad player because he typically masses roaches, goes nydus (as literally his game plan, if it fails he loses), and masses infestors (30+)? He doesn't have much depth in his play, but the guy knows how to win. Stephano isn't much different, besides the fact he doesn't make many infestors.
You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Leenock is the most versatile SC2 player in the world. He can literally do anything. He does all sorts of cheesy aggressive builds as well as safe and greedy macro builds. He uses all unit compositions and extracts every diverse method or zerg attacks (baneling mines, nydus, it harass, drops). No one even comes close to him in terms of variety.
Well there is Suhoshin (Line) >_>
He's Leenock but minus the quality substance underneath.
On January 01 2013 07:31 Kaden wrote: Not to feed the fire, but hasnt Stephano been studying/in school the past two years?? Thats why he couldn't commit to Korea before, but now im assuming hes done and is finally going to Korea?
Not sure where you heard that from, but stephano hasn't been in school since he turned pro. Guess it's from the same rumour mill that people still thought polt went to school, when he took a break from that a long time ago as well.
The only reason stephano hasn't done GSL yet is because it's not as cost effective when it comes to making money. It's a long tournament and it's harder to make money there, than it is at foreign tournaments. He does what makes him the most money and not what gives him the best competition. He's not necessarily wrong in that because you do need to make as much money as you can being a pro gamer since it has a limited career shelf life.
The only reason he's going to play in GSL now is because there are no foreign tournaments to play in until they start back up again in march, etc. Even if he makes it far or keeps his code S, he will just forfeit the next GSL so he can go to all the foreign tournaments again. This GSL is a one shot deal for stephano and no matter how well he does, I don't see him playing in another GSL this year.
Stephano is a smart guy. he knows zvz is his Achilles heel and he will practice and improve it a lot (thats what i hope at least). to OP: good read, thank you
Something tells me a Zerg will end up picking Stephano (Sniper and HyuN), exploiting his weak ZvZ, or will end up in a difficult group that will challenge him intensely. Stephano has been so up and down recently, and hasn't really been showing consistent Code S level play I feel.
On January 01 2013 08:41 PhoenixVoid wrote: Something tells me a Zerg will end up picking Stephano (Sniper and HyuN), exploiting his weak ZvZ, or will end up in a difficult group that will challenge him intensely. Stephano has been so up and down recently, and hasn't really been showing consistent Code S level play I feel.
Even if Stephano's ZvZ is subpar, Zerg players such as sniper/hyun would never take the chance of picking another Zerg in their group if they could pick a terran/protoss instead.
On January 01 2013 08:41 PhoenixVoid wrote: Something tells me a Zerg will end up picking Stephano (Sniper and HyuN), exploiting his weak ZvZ, or will end up in a difficult group that will challenge him intensely. Stephano has been so up and down recently, and hasn't really been showing consistent Code S level play I feel.
Even if Stephano's ZvZ is subpar, Zerg players such as sniper/hyun would never take the chance of picking another Zerg in their group if they could pick a terran/protoss instead.
Really? Sniper's ZvT isn't as great as his ZvZ and ZvP, and HyuN is pretty comfortable in ZvZ (defeated Stephano 3-1 and Scarlett 3-0 in MSI Pro Cup Worldwide, though it was an online tournament). Why not pick on a rather weak ZvZ'er, who is known as a weak preparer?
On January 01 2013 08:41 PhoenixVoid wrote: Something tells me a Zerg will end up picking Stephano (Sniper and HyuN), exploiting his weak ZvZ, or will end up in a difficult group that will challenge him intensely. Stephano has been so up and down recently, and hasn't really been showing consistent Code S level play I feel.
Even if Stephano's ZvZ is subpar, Zerg players such as sniper/hyun would never take the chance of picking another Zerg in their group if they could pick a terran/protoss instead.
Really? Sniper's ZvT isn't as great as his ZvZ and ZvP, and HyuN is pretty comfortable in ZvZ (defeated Stephano 3-1 in MSI Pro Cup Worldwide, though it was an online tournament). Why not pick on a rather weak ZvZ'er, who is known as a weak preparer?
Because Stephano outplayed Life recently in a convincing fashion.
On January 01 2013 07:22 decado90 wrote: ...His a move roach hydra won't work vs a week + of preparation...
Would it be fair to call Leenock a bad player because he typically masses roaches, goes nydus (as literally his game plan, if it fails he loses), and masses infestors (30+)? He doesn't have much depth in his play, but the guy knows how to win. Stephano isn't much different, besides the fact he doesn't make many infestors.
You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Leenock is the most versatile SC2 player in the world. He can literally do anything. He does all sorts of cheesy aggressive builds as well as safe and greedy macro builds. He uses all unit compositions and extracts every diverse method or zerg attacks (baneling mines, nydus, it harass, drops). No one even comes close to him in terms of variety.
Well there is Suhoshin (Line) >_>
He's Leenock but minus the quality substance underneath.
Blind mass roach into drop vs bio. GSL Code S Season 3 2012 - never forget.
On January 01 2013 08:41 PhoenixVoid wrote: Something tells me a Zerg will end up picking Stephano (Sniper and HyuN), exploiting his weak ZvZ, or will end up in a difficult group that will challenge him intensely. Stephano has been so up and down recently, and hasn't really been showing consistent Code S level play I feel.
Even if Stephano's ZvZ is subpar, Zerg players such as sniper/hyun would never take the chance of picking another Zerg in their group if they could pick a terran/protoss instead.
Really? Sniper's ZvT isn't as great as his ZvZ and ZvP, and HyuN is pretty comfortable in ZvZ (defeated Stephano 3-1 and Scarlett 3-0 in MSI Pro Cup Worldwide, though it was an online tournament). Why not pick on a rather weak ZvZ'er, who is known as a weak preparer?
ZvT the Terran is completely fucked. In ZvZ, even if you are better than your opponent, you can have BO losses or ugly late game situations that come down to who has more infestor energy.
On January 01 2013 07:14 SpacemanG wrote: The (Smaller) Elephant in the Room - Stephano set to enter SPL, GSL
Llyes “Stephano” Satouri, a 19 year-old Zerg player, would be in the first handful of players to ever be elected into a Starcraft 2 Hall of Fame, if one should ever exist. He has dominated the foreigner scene and won over nearly every one of our hearts since the day he stepped into the spotlight. We love his demeanor, his personality, his antics, and his fond connection to afterparties. Now Stephano is set to enter the Pro League with EG-TL, and is interested in competing in the GSL, as he is able to stay in Korea for a longer period of time. This has understandably created much discussion in the community - can Stephano compete at what we hold to be the highest level of competition? Can he compete against Kespa players? Can he compete with the most dedicated Korean players, in a way most other foreigners have not? To answer this, we need look no further than this track record as it can sometimes be difficult to put one player’s success into perspective. My answer is this: Stephano has competed against the greatest, and more than that, he has beaten all that have come his way.
Stephano was never one to start small - there was no time in which he struggled as a “mid level pro,” handily beating whatever huge names were thrown his way as soon as he reached tournament play. In his first major appearance, the IGN ProLeague season 3 qualifier, Stephano vaulted himself all the way to first place after defeating Socke, Revival, Puzzle, Kiwikaki, and MMA, at a time where maps like Xel’Naga Caverns, dreaded by zergs, were still in the map pool.
Stephano didn’t stop there. He rode his first place finish in the qualifier straight to the IPL3 victory lane, seemingly laughing at any who got in his way - he defeated Huk, Boxer, Violet, Inori, TheSTC, and Lucky to take home the gold. It wasn't easy - just kidding, it was. Stephano was so dominate that it was hard to predict anyone could beat him after this run.
On Stephano’s next stop on his way to the bank, he passed a European tournament, the 2011 Electronic Sports Word Cup, and promptly demolished the competition. One by one, greats fell to the zerglings of Stephano - first Slivko, then Grubby, Nightend, Axslav, and Cloud, followed by MarineKing, and in the championship matches, Mana (who was so hot at the time he had just won 2-0 over Socke, MC, and Grubby).
In the next major tournament, the 2011 Gsl Blizzard Cup, Stephano performed *slightly* worse - losing to the 3rd and 4th place finishers MC and MVP, but not before defeating DongRaeGu and Hero, whose PvZ was believed to be the best in the world at the time.
In the flash of an eye, Stephano stormed through the SHOUTcraft Invitational #4, handily dismantling Darkforce, Nightend, Grubby, and Thorzain, grabbing his check, and headed right to the bank.
Next stop? ASUS ROG Winter 2012. Stephano took a strong start right to the semifinals - defeating Real, Elfi, going 3-0 against Puma, and losing to Polt in the finals. As a testament to Puma’s TvZ at the time, he would go on to beat Lucky 3-0 in the 3rd place match after going 0-3 against Stephano.
Stephano then took a trip to the Lone Star State, defeating White-Ra 5-1 in a $5,000 showmatch, and then entered the Lone Star Clash where his latest nemesis, Polt, was also a competitor. Here Stephano bested Hawk, Grubby, White-Ra, and even defeated Polt 2-1 in the quarter finals to face Polt again in the finals. Polt had beaten him before, had seen his strategies just moments before in their previous match in the tournament - surely Polt, a seasoned TSL veteran, could manage to take the series or keep it close. The result? Stephano won again 3-1, taking home the trophy. He was just too strong, and definitively took the edge in his rivalry with Polt for good.
In IPL4, Stephano showed some mixed results, if one could even call it that. He beat White-Ra and Curious, but fell 1-2 to MarineKing and 1-2 to Nestea.
After IPL4 it Stephano seemed to be on the prowl for some “easy” competition. The TakeTV Reloaded Invitational was Stephano’s next play thing, where Stephano defeated Illusion, Mana, Monchi, Socke, and followed that by besting Grubby 3-0 and Kas, arguably the best European on European turf, 4-0. Stephano was untouchable.
Stephano faced another large challenge in the 2012 MLG Spring Arena with a tough road to the finals against Ryung, Ret, MC, and Heart. But don’t worry, he beat all of them. He finally succumbed to greats Violet and Symbol in the final rounds.
The Red Bull Battlegrounds was, with the energy drinks, heated competition, and awful, awful shirts, Stephano’s next destination. His first victim was Violet, this time defeating him easily. Next was Illusion, who quickly fell, then in similar fashion Ganzi, and followed by that, Stephano took down the unbeatable Parting. Stephano lost an incredibly close series to MC 2-3, but then took down Squirtle 3-1 in the 3rd place match. Stephano had just gone 7-4 against three of the world’s best protoss players. Who else could achieve anything close to that feat?
I'm not sure who designed these shirts, but...
Stephano took his group at the next tournament, the 2012 MLG Pro Circuit Spring Championship, beating Polt, Alicia, Ganzi, Rain, and JYP - all previous GSL contenders. He could not follow up his group success in the playoff rounds, however, but his group record is nothing to dismiss.
NASL3 was Stephano’s next time to shine - he defeated Beastyqt, Hero, MC, and then 4-0’d Alicia to take his rightful spot as the champion. It almost seemed too easy for him; he seems like he could play blindfolded and still be a force to be reckoned with.
The last major tournament Stephano attended was the 2012 MLG Summer Championship, where despite an early trip to the loser’s bracket due to his zerg rival Violet, he managed to defeat Heart twice, Rain, and TheSTC. This would be Stephano’s last great run before his suspension, and since then we have not had a chance to see Stephano in action.
There is a new elephant in the room, and its going to get pointed out pretty quickly - Stephano, perhaps the greatest foreigner hope we ever may see in Wings of Liberty, is coming to GSL and SPL. Will he stand tall like he has in the past?
GSL is a different beast from every tournament Stephano has ever competed in. The top 16 players in code S are all capable of winning the tournament. The bottom 16 are all capable of knocking the top 16 out as well. There's so much skill in GSL and that's what makes it so volatile. Stephano has never been in a tournament with this much skill. He better practice if he wants to even stay in code S.
I dunno, have mixed feelings on this. On one end, he has done really well in the past and he's not a bad player, definitely best foreigner but he is lazy, doesn't like to prepare and there is a ton of new talent from BW. Rain, Flash, Fantasy, Jaedong, HerO etc... are just a small group of players that I can see that could take games or even series off of him if they played as they did in PL.
I dont believe he'll do well in proleague. Especially in the all-kill format, there will always be snipers prepared to take Stephano in which he'll not be too accustomed to; especially at the calibre of Kespa players who devote their entire week just preparing devising and practicing like madmen to take a single player down. in the GSL is also a question mark; this isnt the MLG, Dreamhack, IPL where the tournaments are marathon based; this is where players are given ample opportunity to study and prepare starting from ro8 which may give Stephano a lot o trouble.
Stephano is going to be mad and finish the all-kill he started in the GSL vs World 2012 edition. He's then going to be the first foreigner royal roader in the GSL. 2ez.
On January 01 2013 08:41 PhoenixVoid wrote: Something tells me a Zerg will end up picking Stephano (Sniper and HyuN), exploiting his weak ZvZ, or will end up in a difficult group that will challenge him intensely. Stephano has been so up and down recently, and hasn't really been showing consistent Code S level play I feel.
Even if Stephano's ZvZ is subpar, Zerg players such as sniper/hyun would never take the chance of picking another Zerg in their group if they could pick a terran/protoss instead.
Really? Sniper's ZvT isn't as great as his ZvZ and ZvP, and HyuN is pretty comfortable in ZvZ (defeated Stephano 3-1 in MSI Pro Cup Worldwide, though it was an online tournament). Why not pick on a rather weak ZvZ'er, who is known as a weak preparer?
Because Stephano outplayed Life recently in a convincing fashion.
On January 01 2013 07:44 ChoDing wrote: he will definitely be OKAY for Winner's League.
He will be terrible for preparation fights.
I agree with this. I don't think there are any foreigners that have what it takes to do well in a tournament with considerable preparation time.
I just don't agree with this logic. If you look at Stephano's play, he isn't a one trick pony, he doesn't try and surprise his opponents, and he doesn't rely on gimmicks or anything like that. If you give Stephano one map and one matchup to practice for days, what's the difference between him and the Korean pros? He's obviously a very solid player, and given an equal amount of time to prepare, its not like he's going to miss something massive or anything like that.
The biggest thing is that Stephano is known to be, and has said himself, that he is fairly lazy. While he has had a great deal of success it mostly comes from short 2-3 day tournaments where the only prep you can do is getting ready to play a lot in one sitting. The thing that really sets GSL apart from almost all other tournaments is that you have lots of time to prepare and the Koreans have really gotten that down to an art. Not only is this a style of competition that he is not used to it does not play to his strengths. No, he isn't a one trick pony but he doesn't have that versatility that you tend to find in the really successful GSL players. And so when his opponents have the time to really figure out his playstyle and he is sitting around goofing off, as he admits that he does, it will make a noticeable difference.
On January 01 2013 08:41 PhoenixVoid wrote: Something tells me a Zerg will end up picking Stephano (Sniper and HyuN), exploiting his weak ZvZ, or will end up in a difficult group that will challenge him intensely. Stephano has been so up and down recently, and hasn't really been showing consistent Code S level play I feel.
Even if Stephano's ZvZ is subpar, Zerg players such as sniper/hyun would never take the chance of picking another Zerg in their group if they could pick a terran/protoss instead.
Really? Sniper's ZvT isn't as great as his ZvZ and ZvP, and HyuN is pretty comfortable in ZvZ (defeated Stephano 3-1 in MSI Pro Cup Worldwide, though it was an online tournament). Why not pick on a rather weak ZvZ'er, who is known as a weak preparer?
Because Stephano outplayed Life recently in a convincing fashion.
What are you referring to?
The World v Korea GSL World Championship round 2 match. Life 4-killed but was beaten by Stephano, who 4-killed in turn, beating MC, DRG and Seed as well.
On January 01 2013 08:41 PhoenixVoid wrote: Something tells me a Zerg will end up picking Stephano (Sniper and HyuN), exploiting his weak ZvZ, or will end up in a difficult group that will challenge him intensely. Stephano has been so up and down recently, and hasn't really been showing consistent Code S level play I feel.
Even if Stephano's ZvZ is subpar, Zerg players such as sniper/hyun would never take the chance of picking another Zerg in their group if they could pick a terran/protoss instead.
Really? Sniper's ZvT isn't as great as his ZvZ and ZvP, and HyuN is pretty comfortable in ZvZ (defeated Stephano 3-1 in MSI Pro Cup Worldwide, though it was an online tournament). Why not pick on a rather weak ZvZ'er, who is known as a weak preparer?
Because Stephano outplayed Life recently in a convincing fashion.
What are you referring to?
GSL World Championship. Stephano vs Life's game was just the sickest ZvZ I've ever seen and one of the best of the last 6 months. And hell I dislike ZvZ.
I think he will do well, but will not enter RO4 by any means. Code S is a pretty high honor for any foreigner. I think he would need to dedicate himself more fully to the game, which is crazy given how demanding he already is of himself. Any way you hack it, I would like to see him perform well, if only for the interesting matchups he will provide.
On January 01 2013 08:41 PhoenixVoid wrote: Something tells me a Zerg will end up picking Stephano (Sniper and HyuN), exploiting his weak ZvZ, or will end up in a difficult group that will challenge him intensely. Stephano has been so up and down recently, and hasn't really been showing consistent Code S level play I feel.
Even if Stephano's ZvZ is subpar, Zerg players such as sniper/hyun would never take the chance of picking another Zerg in their group if they could pick a terran/protoss instead.
Really? Sniper's ZvT isn't as great as his ZvZ and ZvP, and HyuN is pretty comfortable in ZvZ (defeated Stephano 3-1 in MSI Pro Cup Worldwide, though it was an online tournament). Why not pick on a rather weak ZvZ'er, who is known as a weak preparer?
Because Stephano outplayed Life recently in a convincing fashion.
What are you referring to?
GSL World Championship. Stephano vs Life's game was just the sickest ZvZ I've ever seen and one of the best of the last 6 months. And hell I dislike ZvZ.
Life did a failed all-in, and it was still close. I would not call it "convincing".
Dont think he'll do well in proleague or even gsl, never seen stephano actually prepare for things like gsl where you have weeks to prepare for your next opponent and of course there will be plenty of snipers in proleague who could take him out.
If he starts to change up his playstyle and use more build then perhaps he can do better but right now there is so many vods on all his mu's on every map outside the kespa maps.
There are a lot of missing stuff but that's a nice read anyway. Yesterday I was just watching his 2012 results and, even I know about everything about Stephano, I was amazed by his results in the minor events in 2012 (according to the Liquipedia hierarchy). Not only he's the most consistent foreigner in huge events but who else can claim to win as many tournaments ? Of course there's Nerchio who plays like everything (ZOTAC, Go4, Playhem) but Stephano was invited to about twenty tournaments and almost won every single one.
Even if he is lazy (which i dont believe so much, but thats a separate issue), I am sure that being in Korea with EGs infrastructurre will help. He's a great player, and if his coaches help him I believe he can do great. No other foreigner boasts such a record against koreans, so if you wont rally behind him then who.
Stephano will be fine. I watched him since he lost every ZVZ there was in the weekly cups. But I could soon see he was very fast and very special. And one thing for sure he always surprise everyone. I'm actually looking forward to what the team house and his coach can do with him. I expect a much better mechanical Stephano
On January 01 2013 10:22 Nuzoybot wrote: Even if he is lazy (which i dont believe so much, but thats a separate issue), I am sure that being in Korea with EGs infrastructurre will help. He's a great player, and if his coaches help him I believe he can do great. No other foreigner boasts such a record against koreans, so if you wont rally behind him then who.
That's the point. There are probably 30 or more Koreans better than Stephano. Hell, over 20 Koreans are higher than him in foreign TLPD, Getting "behind" a foreigner is simply blind cheering for an inferior player simply because of his ethnicity. Never understood it myself, but I'll be glad when he's knocked to Code B and this whole farce is over with.
On January 01 2013 10:28 MateShade wrote: He draws leenock life drg or sniper and he's toast
To be fair, you could say the same thing about anyone really. Those are 4 of the scariest players in the world (arguably THE 4 scariest), no matter who you are.
The one thing that's really going to suck is that nothing short of a GSL title will shut up all the random haters. He bombs out in Ro32 (no matter what his group is)? "LOL HE SO BAD". He makes the finals and loses? "LOL DIDN"T WIN". No matter what happens, we're in for a round of retarded posts.
On January 01 2013 10:28 MateShade wrote: He draws leenock life drg or sniper and he's toast
To be fair, you could say the same thing about anyone really. Those are 4 of the scariest players in the world (arguably THE 4 scariest), no matter who you are.
The one thing that's really going to suck is that nothing short of a GSL title will shut up all the random haters. He bombs out in Ro32 (no matter what his group is)? "LOL HE SO BAD". He makes the finals and loses? "LOL DIDN"T WIN". No matter what happens, we're in for a round of retarded posts.
I hope they make him practice more than he does, because he makes it seem like he casually practices at the moment. His zvz is terrible, but he'll also be living with Jaedong, who has godly zvz. Hopefully Jaedong can teach him. I'm gonna predict at least Ro16.
On January 01 2013 10:28 MateShade wrote: He draws leenock life drg or sniper and he's toast
He recently beat two of those.
I don't think anyone (or I'm certain someone is, but most people don't) is questioning that Stephano can beat top-notch Koreans. What I, personally, am questioning is how consistently he can do it. I don't think, for example, that Stephano would stand a chance against Life or Leenock in a Bo5 or Bo7. A Bo1, absolutely - maybe even a Bo3, but to perform in GSL he'll have to play at his absolute best with a lot of consistency. I'm doubting he can do that for extended periods of time.
Not to be too negative or anything but the discussion in this thread is just going to be identical to that in the other one lol. If this one gets closed I would recommend the OP to post in the other thread listing which Koreans Stephano has beaten in which event. That's really the only substance of this thread.
Stephano won't win Code S and he won't shake up the ProLeague world. But he is a top tier player and he deserves his shot. However, I'll only accept him as Code S level after he beats Curious in the ro32.
On January 01 2013 10:28 MateShade wrote: He draws leenock life drg or sniper and he's toast
To be fair, you could say the same thing about anyone really. Those are 4 of the scariest players in the world (arguably THE 4 scariest), no matter who you are.
The one thing that's really going to suck is that nothing short of a GSL title will shut up all the random haters. He bombs out in Ro32 (no matter what his group is)? "LOL HE SO BAD". He makes the finals and loses? "LOL DIDN"T WIN". No matter what happens, we're in for a round of retarded posts.
Even if he wins: "LAWL LUCKY RUN! In a few seasons he'll be having a tea party with Jjakji and Seed derf! *bash head on keyboard*"
On January 01 2013 10:28 MateShade wrote: He draws leenock life drg or sniper and he's toast
He recently beat two of those.
I don't think anyone (or I'm certain someone is, but most people don't) is questioning that Stephano can beat top-notch Koreans. What I, personally, am questioning is how consistently he can do it. I don't think, for example, that Stephano would stand a chance against Life or Leenock in a Bo5 or Bo7. A Bo1, absolutely - maybe even a Bo3, but to perform in GSL he'll have to play at his absolute best with a lot of consistency. I'm doubting he can do that for extended periods of time.
I'm not making any judgements about how he'll do. I'm just saying that, the last time they played, Stephano beat two of the players he's supposed to have no chance against. Yeah, Bo1, small sample size... but, you know, he did win.
On January 01 2013 10:22 Nuzoybot wrote: Even if he is lazy (which i dont believe so much, but thats a separate issue), I am sure that being in Korea with EGs infrastructurre will help. He's a great player, and if his coaches help him I believe he can do great. No other foreigner boasts such a record against koreans, so if you wont rally behind him then who.
That's the point. There are probably 30 or more Koreans better than Stephano. Hell, over 20 Koreans are higher than him in foreign TLPD, Getting "behind" a foreigner is simply blind cheering for an inferior player simply because of his ethnicity. Never understood it myself, but I'll be glad when he's knocked to Code B and this whole farce is over with.
This is the one guy that was actually giving good games and getting W's vs top players before zerg got broken. Now, with the current state of the game I don't see any reason why anyone would think he will not do very well here.
The one thing that's really going to suck is that nothing short of a GSL title will shut up all the random haters. He bombs out in Ro32 (no matter what his group is)? "LOL HE SO BAD". He makes the finals and loses? "LOL DIDN"T WIN". No matter what happens, we're in for a round of retarded posts.
stephano has been really hyped. Yes he has won tourneys, and yes he has good results, but only when he is playing on his European home turf, and sometimes in the U.S., but in most cases he doesn't have to deal with new environments and time gaps as much as the Koreans. I think that he will drop like a rock to Code A and then maybe to Code B before he picks it up with the mindgames and such. The GSL and SPL are much different than any other tourney, they are much different. GL to him, and I hope i'm wrong about this.
On January 01 2013 10:28 MateShade wrote: He draws leenock life drg or sniper and he's toast
To be fair, you could say the same thing about anyone really. Those are 4 of the scariest players in the world (arguably THE 4 scariest), no matter who you are.
The one thing that's really going to suck is that nothing short of a GSL title will shut up all the random haters. He bombs out in Ro32 (no matter what his group is)? "LOL HE SO BAD". He makes the finals and loses? "LOL DIDN"T WIN". No matter what happens, we're in for a round of retarded posts.
Even if he wins: "LAWL LUCKY RUN! In a few seasons he'll be having a tea party with Jjakji and Seed derf! *bash head on keyboard*"
And if he loses: he is just not used to it! give him a couple seasons.
Well IMO, stephano-domo will have to hone his skills in zvz and figure out his style in it. Of all the matchups, he seems te least natural/comfortable in. I predict he will rise to the demands of his new matches in the future. While hes a player who's motivation an work ethic have been called into question, I think he is a player that is motivated by challenges so hopefully he will just fucking channel that and go ham. I'm hoping for he best for my USA champion
Stephano is good, no doubt about it. He is definitely able to compete with the worlds best. But I think we all knew that. Still, I don't expect too much of tidal waves when he hits Korea. GSL is tricky, and even players like MKP, Taeja, and Leenock have yet to win a single title, even when they seemed most dominant.
On January 01 2013 13:17 Bagration wrote: Stephano is good, no doubt about it. He is definitely able to compete with the worlds best. But I think we all knew that. Still, I don't expect too much of tidal waves when he hits Korea. GSL is tricky, and even players like MKP, Taeja, and Leenock have yet to win a single title, even when they seemed most dominant.
I'm pretty realistic about his chances in GSL, but he should be dominant in Proleague. Kespa Zergs are pretty much all weak in ZvZ and I don't see any T or P players he couldn't beat in a BO1.
On January 01 2013 13:17 Bagration wrote: Stephano is good, no doubt about it. He is definitely able to compete with the worlds best. But I think we all knew that. Still, I don't expect too much of tidal waves when he hits Korea. GSL is tricky, and even players like MKP, Taeja, and Leenock have yet to win a single title, even when they seemed most dominant.
I'm pretty realistic about his chances in GSL, but he should be dominant in Proleague. Kespa Zergs are pretty much all weak in ZvZ and I don't see any T or P players he couldn't beat in a BO1.
He will definitely be a big player in the all kill format, but I hesitate to underestimate a Kespa sniper.
On January 01 2013 13:17 Bagration wrote: Stephano is good, no doubt about it. He is definitely able to compete with the worlds best. But I think we all knew that. Still, I don't expect too much of tidal waves when he hits Korea. GSL is tricky, and even players like MKP, Taeja, and Leenock have yet to win a single title, even when they seemed most dominant.
I'm pretty realistic about his chances in GSL, but he should be dominant in Proleague. Kespa Zergs are pretty much all weak in ZvZ and I don't see any T or P players he couldn't beat in a BO1.
He will definitely be a big player in the all kill format, but I hesitate to underestimate a Kespa sniper.
It's just scary to me that it could be some kid's full time job to train for hours every day to just take down one player.
Not sure, He has done well in the past, but mostly in his home turf, or in the Fame of usa where he has the most support.
South Korea is 100% cut throat I'm kill you no mercy, and hardcore practice the kespa players put themself in.
Stephano does slump from time to time and it has shown since he has joined EG, He has had less results since he joined EG compared to when he was on Mili and training in Euro with a Euro team.
Hope he does well, but EG is a pretty relaxed setting, they tend to goof off or be more entertainment then have hardcore training sessions like other teams do.
And in South Korea with the power of Kespa teams in the mix of sc2, Hardcore training is a must to be successful in South Korea scene GSL
Depends on his code S group. That literally will determine his ENTIRE stay in Korea. If his code S group is super hard and he drops, he'll get dejected and go suck. Transfer to EG doesn't mean players suck, it means they feel they have higher stakes, because they're being paid so much. Nerves are SO much bigger on a big team. But If he goes up, then I think he has a great chance of kicking ass for EGTL all year round
For the past two years he's put off competing in the GSL, opting for foreign gutter. Went to ESWC instead of MLG to preserve his image against fail competition-- loses to a foreigner. Loses the series to Bomber, yet wins LSC2. Humiliated by idra and Xlord-- two foreigners that don't even register in the upper echelon of foreigners. Beats MKP and MMA, mkp who is in a straight up TvZ free fall and MMA who's already hit the ground, and he's proclaimed Code S.
Stephano is not Code S. In fact, I'll laugh when he's knocked into Code B. I'm sure the fanboys will make up some excuse, probably similar to the excuses they gave when he was spanked the last time he was in Korea, and I'll just laugh even more.
Stephano is nothing remotely special and would struggle to be even considered in the top 50 among Koreans. Simply the best foreigner--the same difference in appeal as the piece of bread that's been pissed on instead of shit on.
On January 01 2013 07:15 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I predict in SPL All Kill format he will do decently and pick up some wins. but in the GSL he will drop straight to Code B. Quote me on it bitches
I think the same, but I don't know. Code S and Code A are practically equal in terms of skill now, it's just a matter of who's playing better on the day. He's not that far behind the top Koreans, and living there should benefit him.
The results will be very dependant on how hard he trains in korea. He is prolly with Naniwa, the only foreigner with Sc2 korean level, so with good preparation he can do well in Code S.
In any case, the korean field is hard. Stephano may be the best foreigner but he is not better than any top 25 korean in the GSL. Also, he got his pride during the "patchz" season, so I will love to see how he performs in korean territory. Consistant with that, his ZvZ is his worse match up.
And also Z beasts like DongRaeGu, Life or Leenock have lost their first group. So if you ask me, Stephano have the same chances that any othe korean. He can have a good run a la Naniwa, or go to code A like any good korean player.
On January 01 2013 16:18 decado90 wrote: Stephano is in for a very rude awakening.
For the past two years he's put off competing in the GSL, opting for foreign gutter. Went to ESWC instead of MLG to preserve his image against fail competition-- loses to a foreigner. Loses the series to Bomber, yet wins LSC2. Humiliated by idra and Xlord-- two foreigners that don't even register in the upper echelon of foreigners. Beats MKP and MMA, mkp who is in a straight up TvZ free fall and MMA who's already hit the ground, and he's proclaimed Code S.
Stephano is not Code S. In fact, I'll laugh when he's knocked into Code B. I'm sure the fanboys will make up some excuse, probably similar to the excuses they gave when he was spanked the last time he was in Korea, and I'll just laugh even more.
Stephano is nothing remotely special and would struggle to be even considered in the top 50 among Koreans. Simply the best foreigner--the same difference in appeal as the piece of bread that's been pissed on instead of shit on.
This is exactly the kind of thought that I try and challenge by writing this - by looking at his results, Stephano has at one point beaten every single big Korean name, even the highest tier Korean pros - he's probably taken down every Code S champion that's still playing at least once. I believe for a lot of people, this won't matter, and the mindset of Koreans > Foreigners will still remain strong. But here is a foreigner that has beaten everyone, but for some reason that means he still isn't as good as the best. Is beating MC, MKP, MMA, Polt, DongRaeGu, Boxer, TheSTC, Hero, Thorzain, Puma, Real, JYP, Ganzi, Parting, Squirtle, Heart and Rain not enough to say 'perhaps Stephano is on the level of Koreans?' Or would one be so bold as to argue that these results against these Koreans shouldn't count?
On January 01 2013 16:18 decado90 wrote: Stephano is in for a very rude awakening.
For the past two years he's put off competing in the GSL, opting for foreign gutter. Went to ESWC instead of MLG to preserve his image against fail competition-- loses to a foreigner. Loses the series to Bomber, yet wins LSC2. Humiliated by idra and Xlord-- two foreigners that don't even register in the upper echelon of foreigners. Beats MKP and MMA, mkp who is in a straight up TvZ free fall and MMA who's already hit the ground, and he's proclaimed Code S.
Stephano is not Code S. In fact, I'll laugh when he's knocked into Code B. I'm sure the fanboys will make up some excuse, probably similar to the excuses they gave when he was spanked the last time he was in Korea, and I'll just laugh even more.
Stephano is nothing remotely special and would struggle to be even considered in the top 50 among Koreans. Simply the best foreigner--the same difference in appeal as the piece of bread that's been pissed on instead of shit on.
We understood that you are a Stephano's hater. Please shut your mouth up now, you're becoming boring by bashing him everywhere.
It's fascinating how people talk about players like they have some special knowledge the players don't. Things along these lines: "He doesn't know what he's in for in Korea." In addition to their prima facie absurdity, they're outrageously arrogant. Anyway, hope Stephano does well; been looking forward to seeing him do this for a long time.
On January 01 2013 16:18 decado90 wrote: Stephano is in for a very rude awakening.
For the past two years he's put off competing in the GSL, opting for foreign gutter. Went to ESWC instead of MLG to preserve his image against fail competition-- loses to a foreigner. Loses the series to Bomber, yet wins LSC2. Humiliated by idra and Xlord-- two foreigners that don't even register in the upper echelon of foreigners. Beats MKP and MMA, mkp who is in a straight up TvZ free fall and MMA who's already hit the ground, and he's proclaimed Code S.
Stephano is not Code S. In fact, I'll laugh when he's knocked into Code B. I'm sure the fanboys will make up some excuse, probably similar to the excuses they gave when he was spanked the last time he was in Korea, and I'll just laugh even more.
Stephano is nothing remotely special and would struggle to be even considered in the top 50 among Koreans. Simply the best foreigner--the same difference in appeal as the piece of bread that's been pissed on instead of shit on.
This is exactly the kind of thought that I try and challenge by writing this - by looking at his results, Stephano has at one point beaten every single big Korean name, even the highest tier Korean pros - he's probably taken down every Code S champion that's still playing at least once. I believe for a lot of people, this won't matter, and the mindset of Koreans > Foreigners will still remain strong. But here is a foreigner that has beaten everyone, but for some reason that means he still isn't as good as the best. Is beating MC, MKP, MMA, Polt, DongRaeGu, Boxer, TheSTC, Hero, Thorzain, Puma, Real, JYP, Ganzi, Parting, Squirtle, Heart and Rain not enough to say 'perhaps Stephano is on the level of Koreans?' Or would one be so bold as to argue that these results against these Koreans shouldn't count?
To be fair stephano has only won vs these top Koreans on his home turf or the USA tourneys.
It is much harder on the Koreans who travel to Euro and USA, Stephano feels much better @ USA/Euro so those wins mean very little in Korea.
South Korea is the real deal, different environment, Koreans home turf, they have the power, skill and practice routine to make people who travel to South Korea to look like nothing. Kespa has taken out their own in Korea making it a new world with higher skill curve that EG does not provide, Yes EG is a great team, yes they are rich and can pay players big. But do they have high skill practice?? no they dont. Do 95% of their teams provide more personality and entertainment then gaming skill? Yes.
I mean you can't compare the work Koreans put in, compared to how laid back EG players are. They don't get half the practice other teams get.
On January 01 2013 16:18 decado90 wrote: Stephano is in for a very rude awakening.
For the past two years he's put off competing in the GSL, opting for foreign gutter. Went to ESWC instead of MLG to preserve his image against fail competition-- loses to a foreigner. Loses the series to Bomber, yet wins LSC2. Humiliated by idra and Xlord-- two foreigners that don't even register in the upper echelon of foreigners. Beats MKP and MMA, mkp who is in a straight up TvZ free fall and MMA who's already hit the ground, and he's proclaimed Code S.
Stephano is not Code S. In fact, I'll laugh when he's knocked into Code B. I'm sure the fanboys will make up some excuse, probably similar to the excuses they gave when he was spanked the last time he was in Korea, and I'll just laugh even more.
Stephano is nothing remotely special and would struggle to be even considered in the top 50 among Koreans. Simply the best foreigner--the same difference in appeal as the piece of bread that's been pissed on instead of shit on.
This is exactly the kind of thought that I try and challenge by writing this - by looking at his results, Stephano has at one point beaten every single big Korean name, even the highest tier Korean pros - he's probably taken down every Code S champion that's still playing at least once. I believe for a lot of people, this won't matter, and the mindset of Koreans > Foreigners will still remain strong. But here is a foreigner that has beaten everyone, but for some reason that means he still isn't as good as the best. Is beating MC, MKP, MMA, Polt, DongRaeGu, Boxer, TheSTC, Hero, Thorzain, Puma, Real, JYP, Ganzi, Parting, Squirtle, Heart and Rain not enough to say 'perhaps Stephano is on the level of Koreans?' Or would one be so bold as to argue that these results against these Koreans shouldn't count?
To be fair stephano has only won vs these top Koreans on his home turf or the USA tourneys.
It is much harder on the Koreans who travel to Euro and USA, Stephano feels much better @ USA/Euro so those wins mean very little in Korea.
South Korea is the real deal, different environment, Koreans home turf, they have the power, skill and practice routine to make people who travel to South Korea to look like nothing. Kespa has taken out their own in Korea making it a new world with higher skill curve that EG does not provide, Yes EG is a great team, yes they are rich and can pay players big. But do they have high skill practice?? no they dont. Do 95% of their teams provide more personality and entertainment then gaming skill? Yes.
I mean you can't compare the work Koreans put in, compared to how laid back EG players are. They don't get half the practice other teams get.
I think you're right in that its difficult to estimate the strengths of 'home field advantage,' so to speak. I would imagine it would decline the longer one stays in a foreign country, with the biggest home field advantage occurring in weekend tournaments like MLG.
To your point about practice differences, and this has been said time and time again, but ever since the EG players went back to Korea (Idra, Huk, Thorzain, JYP, Puma), we haven't heard a single peep from them - no streaming, no tweeting about practice, nothing. We have absolutely no idea what their practice is like. We as a community only see them in public during more relaxed events - shows, streaming ladder, etc. We don't see the whole picture and are going to be biased because of that. For example, Idra routinely ranks at the very top of stream viewers/revenue on twitch, and yet he barely ever streams, and really only when he is in NA for a short time. Why would he turn down that income/publicity if he wasn't doing something more important to him?
On January 01 2013 17:03 mambar wrote: It's fascinating how people talk about players like they have some special knowledge the players don't. Things along these lines: "He doesn't know what he's in for in Korea." In addition to their prima facie absurdity, they're outrageously arrogant. Anyway, hope Stephano does well; been looking forward to seeing him do this for a long time.
I echo your sentiments completely. Here's to hoping he brings EG-TL some extra wins!
People somehow think koreans don't do well in foreign tournaments. Go back to early 2011 era where foreigns tournaments were filled with koreans and people were complaining if that was fair and even said that is what turned them away from the tournaments.
Stephano was one of the few who consistently beat koreans, even the korean terrans
On January 01 2013 17:03 mambar wrote: It's fascinating how people talk about players like they have some special knowledge the players don't. Things along these lines: "He doesn't know what he's in for in Korea." In addition to their prima facie absurdity, they're outrageously arrogant. Anyway, hope Stephano does well; been looking forward to seeing him do this for a long time.
Yes that's true, but at the same time, the players themselves don't have the best perspective on their relative skill. To compete at that level, you have to believe you're capable of being the best. Fans are somewhat more objective/realistic. I have no doubt that Stephano is the type to go in believing he could win Code S even if it weren't remotely true.
The expression is funny if you consider Stephano has Tunisian origins, and Hannibal is said to have used elephants when battling against Scipio on that very land.
On January 01 2013 17:03 mambar wrote: It's fascinating how people talk about players like they have some special knowledge the players don't. Things along these lines: "He doesn't know what he's in for in Korea." In addition to their prima facie absurdity, they're outrageously arrogant. Anyway, hope Stephano does well; been looking forward to seeing him do this for a long time.
You clearly aren't GM, unlike everyone. Obviously.
On January 01 2013 20:01 Cereb wrote: He's definitely Code S material and even with a small chance to win.
But Code S is so insane that he might also go out as last in his group - that's just the level of competition there.
Regardless, it's gonna be entertaining and let's hope for the best
Well, a few months ago I would have agreed. Right now... Hm, probably he is probably "just" at that level were you can't expect too much of him, when playing in Code S. Hopefully he proves me wrong!
On January 01 2013 20:01 Cereb wrote: He's definitely Code S material and even with a small chance to win.
But Code S is so insane that he might also go out as last in his group - that's just the level of competition there.
Regardless, it's gonna be entertaining and let's hope for the best
Well, a few months ago I would have agreed. Right now... Hm, probably he is probably "just" at that level were you can't expect too much of him, when playing in Code S. Hopefully he proves me wrong!
Have to agree with you. I definitely feel like he'll fit in in Code S, and definitely do fairly well. I don't think he'll win it though, it's just so stacked these days. Hell, Code A and UnD's are stacked. Definitely looking forward to how he performs, and how well he does in PL.
To everyone saying that Stephano's style will be dissected by code S players. I feel that might be true, but that argument also doesn't account for the fact that we've never seen Stephano's ability to gameplan against specific players. If he turns up with prepared builds, I'm pretty sure that his opponents will not be prepared because all the world has ever seen of Stephano are a few trademark styles. Could be a gift or a curse, and I'm definitely very interested to find out.
Why is everywhere a discussion which player is in top10? "X is in top 10" "No, is isnt anymore in top 10, because he lost yesterday against Y who is maybe top25" "What a terrible player, he didnt go to mlg, he went to eswc, this means everything that isnt a top player" bla bla bla.
NOBODY need such silly discussion. Only the community talk/care about such topic "X is in top10" or " Y is the best player in the world right now". I am sure, no one single progamer talk about such topics/discussions (with other progamers).
On January 01 2013 22:39 Dingodile wrote: Why is everywhere a discussion which player is in top10? "X is in top 10" "No, is isnt anymore in top 10, because he lost yesterday against Y who is maybe top25" "What a terrible player, he didnt go to mlg, he went to eswc, this means everything that isnt a top player" bla bla bla.
NOBODY need such silly discussion. Only the community talk/care about such topic "X is in top10" or " Y is the best player in the world right now". I am sure, no one single progamer talk about such topics/discussions (with other progamers).
I don't even think there is a top 10. There's a top 3 or 4, the players who have been winning tournaments recently, and then there are 50 players behind them who could easily beat them if they're playing well that day. The difference between the best player and the 30th best player is pretty much nothing at this point, because SC2 is so volatile. I think Stephano is among the top group, but he may have too much trouble with consistency to win a long tournament format.
I'm predicting Stephano to at least come in 3rd in his Ro32 group, but if he plays like he did over the summer he could even make it to top 8. NaNiwa was able to make it that far with some group stage luck, it's not unreasonable for Stephano to pull it off too. Also good job making this, I'm impressed by the effort put into it
It's all about luck. His ZvZ is currently too weak to win GSL overall IMO, and it depends on how many zergs end up in Code S, and how many end up in his group.
If this is the pinnacle of his career, and he goes to study medicine afterwards or decide to give his life another direction, will we in 2020 look back and remember him like GGSlayers, GRRRRR or Elky?
Ugh...so glad that Stephano doesn't do the hair wraps anymore.
Honestly, though, I think Stephano will be pretty goddamn mediocre in Korea. I can't see him doing well in the GSL, but non-GSTL team league performance will probably be pretty good.
I don't expect him to succeed in GSL simply because he's never participated in a tournament with that much preparation involved. It's a totally different animal from anything else he's done. While I think Proleague is somewhat similar in that adequate preparation is a large part of games, I expect him to be solid there and probably pick up some good wins for EGTL.
Stephano won't prepare for GSL matches like others, but thats ok for a zerg player. Zerg is still the reactive race.
The saddest thing is that Stephanos GSL matches will be immensily overjudged. Its just a few games which mean very little. We saw the best players drop out in Ro32, and we saw some lucky runs by others.
I kid, I believe Stephano will do decently in Korea. I don't see him performing amazingly though, it's a completely different tournament from what he's played in before. Besides, he is going to be playing some of the biggest names in the game.
I still look forward to seeing him play, at least in the GSL. SPL Should be good too.
A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
yeah fanboyism about an player who doesnt care at all...SC2 Threads like these seem to be the reason why TL trying to reanimate SCBW with an Tournament...Come on people...
Stephano has so much talent. He doesn't really practice a lot but is still one of the best foreigners, if not still the best. I hope he at least tries his best in GSL to maybe crush some koreans.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
As was already mentioned, no matter what happens with stephano in code s it will be overjudged in both directions. 1 season of gsl will show pretty much nothing.
To make it really significant he would have to stay for at least 2-3 gsl seasons, and i dont know if this is going to happen.
I really hope that he will be doing well, but i doubt it. I think its much easier for him to practice the way he likes it and farm foreigner tournaments for price money.
On the other hand i cant really judge any foreigner skill level anymore. I stopped watching foreign sc2 completly a long time ago. But what i can say is that the current skillset needed to be in gsl not even in code s is ridiculously high compared to what it was like 12 months ago.
And i cannnot see any person, no matter which race color or whatever being able to compete in the gsl without being as professional as the koreans are. Which means 100% dedication to sc2 in a professional team. It is a job you know.
On January 02 2013 04:22 norterrible wrote: I hope he fails. Having a player that is so passionless win is very poisonous for the community. Sort of like another Idra but in a different way.
I don't know how you came to this conclusion. IdrA definitely has passion first of all, second of all not only did you not back up your claims, you deliberately made a baseless statement. Stephano has passion, he is just chiller about it.
This will be his last hurray before HOTS, maybe he will end in style and nothing more in Hots. What I do know is that Stephano actually practices for games, SPL with all-kill format might be a challenge for him but GSL?.. Never, he is the foreigner to make it to the finals. (I don't see a Terran or Zerg taking him out at least)
On January 02 2013 04:22 norterrible wrote: I hope he fails. Having a player that is so passionless win is very poisonous for the community. Sort of like another Idra but in a different way.
I don't know how you came to this conclusion. IdrA definitely has passion first of all, second of all not only did you not back up your claims, you deliberately made a baseless statement. Stephano has passion, he is just chiller about it.
Yeah, that's why he hardly ever plays! And talks about how he's only in it for the money, and wants to quit to go back to school asap!
Passion!
He's going to get wrecked in Korea. He's going to be on THEIR home turf, in the style of tournament the best players specialize in.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
On January 02 2013 04:22 norterrible wrote: I hope he fails. Having a player that is so passionless win is very poisonous for the community. Sort of like another Idra but in a different way.
I don't know how you came to this conclusion. IdrA definitely has passion first of all, second of all not only did you not back up your claims, you deliberately made a baseless statement. Stephano has passion, he is just chiller about it.
Yeah, that's why he hardly ever plays! And talks about how he's only in it for the money, and wants to quit to go back to school asap!
Passion!
He's going to get wrecked in Korea. He's going to be on THEIR home turf, in the style of tournament the best players specialize in.
I'm sorry that being realistic about the world, understanding how professions work, and having a practice schedule that works for him denote no passion. Great logic.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
On January 02 2013 04:22 norterrible wrote: I hope he fails. Having a player that is so passionless win is very poisonous for the community. Sort of like another Idra but in a different way.
I don't know how you came to this conclusion. IdrA definitely has passion first of all, second of all not only did you not back up your claims, you deliberately made a baseless statement. Stephano has passion, he is just chiller about it.
Yeah, that's why he hardly ever plays! And talks about how he's only in it for the money, and wants to quit to go back to school asap!
Passion!
He's going to get wrecked in Korea. He's going to be on THEIR home turf, in the style of tournament the best players specialize in.
I'm sorry that being realistic about the world, understanding how professions work, and having a practice schedule that works for him denote no passion. Great logic.
lol
All the things Lunareste said DO indicate a lack of passion/dedication, and all you did was phrase them in less negative ways.
On January 01 2013 07:40 Walnuts wrote: Saying that all people love Stephano and that he should be elected to a SC2 hall of fame is not the truth, its the writers opinion.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
He will lose. He plays 2-3 day tournaments and has never learned how to study a player and prepare, he plays a very solid safe style that doesnt change much from player to player. Koreans will recognize this and adapt, as they have very much experience studying players for a week and crafting builds to dispose of them.
Well, this thread has very quickly derailed into SC2/Stephano bashing. I simply hope there's a foreigner that can compete at the highest of levels, it certainly makes everything more interesting and is definitely better for the esports scene as a whole. There's no way to tell how well any player will do, and I for one wouldn't wish for a certain player to do poorly for any reason. That just makes no sense.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
Don't bother. He has a very weird conception of skill levels.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
Don't bother. He has a very weird conception of skill levels.
A team that goes to 7 games against every other team in the league sounds like the exact definition of mid-tier to me.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
Don't bother. He has a very weird conception of skill levels.
A team that goes to 7 games against every other team in the league sounds like the exact definition of mid-tier to me.
In this case yes. Although I think a full strength EGTL with Taeja/HerO/Stephano/JYP/Jaedong is above mid-tier in PL. I was more referring to him in general, he made some very debatable arguments in the foreigner ranking thread for example.
Also, he makes disgusting posts on reddit if he didn't decide to take the username of a terrible poster on reddit and use it on TL himself.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
On January 01 2013 07:16 Waxangel wrote: he'll be fine
Couldn't have said it better myself. Welcome to the TaeJa, JYP, JD and HerO line Stephano. Going fifty percent in pro league isn't a bad thing boys. It means you belong.
On January 02 2013 03:57 cutler wrote: yeah fanboyism about an player who doesnt care at all...SC2 Threads like these seem to be the reason why TL trying to reanimate SCBW with an Tournament...Come on people...
you can reanimate only what is dead. Foreign bw is stilla live though, thank you
On January 02 2013 03:57 cutler wrote: yeah fanboyism about an player who doesnt care at all...SC2 Threads like these seem to be the reason why TL trying to reanimate SCBW with an Tournament...Come on people...
you can reanimate only what is dead. Foreign bw is stilla live though, thank you
Sonic and the Fish server is doing fine as well man.
His mechanics are almost flawless. micro amazing one one the best micro zerg. decision making is great. what he alck is practice and i bet hes gonna have to practice alot in korea. i hope best for him. he be an asset in SPL i feel it.
On January 02 2013 10:19 SpacemanG wrote: Well, this thread has very quickly derailed into SC2/Stephano bashing. I simply hope there's a foreigner that can compete at the highest of levels, it certainly makes everything more interesting and is definitely better for the esports scene as a whole. There's no way to tell how well any player will do, and I for one wouldn't wish for a certain player to do poorly for any reason. That just makes no sense.
Then you should have made your thread about it. The title would have made a LOT more sense if it was regarding all foreigners vs the koreans.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
As always, Stephano is by far the best foreigner out there, and can give many Koreans a run for their money, but he's still overrated, purely because he's a foreigner, automatically getting him obnoxious amounts of hype. He'll definitely get better in Korea if he dedicates himself, but it's not like he's instantly going to win a GSL.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
On January 02 2013 03:46 Mohdoo wrote: A lot of people in this thread are forgetting that Stephano has a coach now. And Stephano is pretty much the front-lines of hype for EG, especially pertaining to proleague/GSL. The coach will likely be spending most of his time preparing Stephano for his matches.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
Taeja and Hero are both better than Stephano, but they aren't nearly the best players in Proleague. Taeja has done well, but Hero isn't even the best Hero.
People tend to think he'll do well in the all kill rounds, but I disagree. His ZvZ is not up to par, he's unfamiliar with the maps, and the shear amount of talent he'll be going up against is unlike anything he's seen.
Despite Fionn's "questionable" power ranking that listed EG-TL as the #1 team in PL, I think most rational people placed EG-TL in their proper place-- a mid tier team carried by a couple players.
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on STX/CJ/8th/Khan then
OK, as you wish. STX, CJ, 8th team are better than EG-TL, Khan is not atm.
How did you come to that conclusion?
You need to learn yourself, can't teach you everything.
So you don't actually have a reason. I agree, the teams doing worse in every way are better.
Reasons are just the same excuses that you claim EG-TL are top tier, same logic works here too. If you accept positive spin for EG-TL, then you should accept positive spin for those teams too.
On January 02 2013 06:37 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: [quote]
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on STX/CJ/8th/Khan then
OK, as you wish. STX, CJ, 8th team are better than EG-TL, Khan is not atm.
How did you come to that conclusion?
You need to learn yourself, can't teach you everything.
So you don't actually have a reason. I agree, the teams doing worse in every way are better.
It's called rational thinking. They have the superior players and are much deeper teams.
Except that they don't have superior players at the moment. If egtl is going to be judged as mediocre for losing 3 times in the ace match, which would put them 1st/2nd, then cj, khan, stx and 8th should objectively be judged worse then them for not even getting to that stage.
On January 02 2013 06:37 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: [quote]
- Taeja is easily one of the best in the league. He's won every game he's played except his most recent against Rain.
- Stephano has been going up against equal or better Koreans throughout his career and half the maps are familiar.
- EG-TL might not deserve the #1 spot, but they're a bit better than mid-tier.
- Nope, lost to Cj Hero.
- No, he hasn't.
- EG-TL is 3-4. What tier is that exactly?
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on STX/CJ/8th/Khan then
OK, as you wish. STX, CJ, 8th team are better than EG-TL, Khan is not atm.
How did you come to that conclusion?
You need to learn yourself, can't teach you everything.
So you don't actually have a reason. I agree, the teams doing worse in every way are better.
Reasons are just the same excuses that you claim EG-TL are top tier, same logic works here too. If you accept positive spin for EG-TL, then you should accept positive spin for those teams too.
I don't accept positive spin, I think they're mediocre, I just think they're better then the teams you think are better.
But 3-4 doesn't tell the whole story. Every match they lost sans the opening match was in the ace match. They just as easily could have gone 6-1 as they did 3-4 or any combination of them. I definitely don't think its fair to call EG-TL mid tier.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on STX/CJ/8th/Khan then
OK, as you wish. STX, CJ, 8th team are better than EG-TL, Khan is not atm.
How did you come to that conclusion?
You need to learn yourself, can't teach you everything.
So you don't actually have a reason. I agree, the teams doing worse in every way are better.
Reasons are just the same excuses that you claim EG-TL are top tier, same logic works here too. If you accept positive spin for EG-TL, then you should accept positive spin for those teams too.
I don't accept positive spin, I think they're mediocre, I just think they're better then the teams you think are better.
Sry thought you were chipmonk, was arguing with him for claiming EG-TL top tier.
On January 01 2013 08:21 ROOTheognis wrote: Stephano is a genius! He'll be great in Korea
I second this post. Stephano's the guy who doesn't go to class all year, skims someone else's notes a day before the exam and ends up getting the best grade in the class (as long as the exam doesn't involve zvz)
On January 01 2013 10:22 Nuzoybot wrote: Even if he is lazy (which i dont believe so much, but thats a separate issue), I am sure that being in Korea with EGs infrastructurre will help. He's a great player, and if his coaches help him I believe he can do great. No other foreigner boasts such a record against koreans, so if you wont rally behind him then who.
That's the point. There are probably 30 or more Koreans better than Stephano. Hell, over 20 Koreans are higher than him in foreign TLPD, Getting "behind" a foreigner is simply blind cheering for an inferior player simply because of his ethnicity. Never understood it myself, but I'll be glad when he's knocked to Code B and this whole farce is over with.
I'm taking the bait. You do realize that Stephano was #1 overall in international Elo (among all players) for a good portion of 2012 and that before he more or less completely stopped practicing for about 2 months was #1 overall (of all races) in vP and vT matchups, yes? Even in his present diminished state, there is no way that there are 30 Koreans better than Stephano. He just stomped MVP and MKP (and MMA, although he's not so special anymore) using roach-hydra. This man is a genius (who needs to practice a bit more than he currently does).
On January 01 2013 08:21 ROOTheognis wrote: Stephano is a genius! He'll be great in Korea
I second this post. Stephano's the guy who doesn't go to class all year, skims someone else's notes a day before the exam and ends up getting the best grade in the class (as long as the exam doesn't involve zvz)
On January 01 2013 16:18 decado90 wrote: Stephano is in for a very rude awakening.
For the past two years he's put off competing in the GSL, opting for foreign gutter. Went to ESWC instead of MLG to preserve his image against fail competition-- loses to a foreigner. Loses the series to Bomber, yet wins LSC2. Humiliated by idra and Xlord-- two foreigners that don't even register in the upper echelon of foreigners. Beats MKP and MMA, mkp who is in a straight up TvZ free fall and MMA who's already hit the ground, and he's proclaimed Code S.
Stephano is not Code S. In fact, I'll laugh when he's knocked into Code B. I'm sure the fanboys will make up some excuse, probably similar to the excuses they gave when he was spanked the last time he was in Korea, and I'll just laugh even more.
Stephano is nothing remotely special and would struggle to be even considered in the top 50 among Koreans. Simply the best foreigner--the same difference in appeal as the piece of bread that's been pissed on instead of shit on.
This is exactly the kind of thought that I try and challenge by writing this - by looking at his results, Stephano has at one point beaten every single big Korean name, even the highest tier Korean pros - he's probably taken down every Code S champion that's still playing at least once. I believe for a lot of people, this won't matter, and the mindset of Koreans > Foreigners will still remain strong. But here is a foreigner that has beaten everyone, but for some reason that means he still isn't as good as the best. Is beating MC, MKP, MMA, Polt, DongRaeGu, Boxer, TheSTC, Hero, Thorzain, Puma, Real, JYP, Ganzi, Parting, Squirtle, Heart and Rain not enough to say 'perhaps Stephano is on the level of Koreans?' Or would one be so bold as to argue that these results against these Koreans shouldn't count?
To be fair stephano has only won vs these top Koreans on his home turf or the USA tourneys.
It is much harder on the Koreans who travel to Euro and USA, Stephano feels much better @ USA/Euro so those wins mean very little in Korea.
South Korea is the real deal, different environment, Koreans home turf, they have the power, skill and practice routine to make people who travel to South Korea to look like nothing. Kespa has taken out their own in Korea making it a new world with higher skill curve that EG does not provide, Yes EG is a great team, yes they are rich and can pay players big. But do they have high skill practice?? no they dont. Do 95% of their teams provide more personality and entertainment then gaming skill? Yes.
I mean you can't compare the work Koreans put in, compared to how laid back EG players are. They don't get half the practice other teams get.
Please stop posting. Stephano's home turf is France, not the US. He did fine in the Blizzard cup in Korea. He's played everywhere and done well everywhere. Please. Stop. Posting.
It is much harder on the Koreans who travel to Euro and USA, Stephano feels much better @ USA/Euro so those wins mean very little in Korea.
This might be news to you, but Europe and the US are on opposite ends of the world. They're not alike at all. He suffers from jetlag just as much as Koreans when they travel.
On January 01 2013 16:18 decado90 wrote: Stephano is in for a very rude awakening.
For the past two years he's put off competing in the GSL, opting for foreign gutter. Went to ESWC instead of MLG to preserve his image against fail competition-- loses to a foreigner. Loses the series to Bomber, yet wins LSC2. Humiliated by idra and Xlord-- two foreigners that don't even register in the upper echelon of foreigners. Beats MKP and MMA, mkp who is in a straight up TvZ free fall and MMA who's already hit the ground, and he's proclaimed Code S.
Stephano is not Code S. In fact, I'll laugh when he's knocked into Code B. I'm sure the fanboys will make up some excuse, probably similar to the excuses they gave when he was spanked the last time he was in Korea, and I'll just laugh even more.
Stephano is nothing remotely special and would struggle to be even considered in the top 50 among Koreans. Simply the best foreigner--the same difference in appeal as the piece of bread that's been pissed on instead of shit on.
This is exactly the kind of thought that I try and challenge by writing this - by looking at his results, Stephano has at one point beaten every single big Korean name, even the highest tier Korean pros - he's probably taken down every Code S champion that's still playing at least once. I believe for a lot of people, this won't matter, and the mindset of Koreans > Foreigners will still remain strong. But here is a foreigner that has beaten everyone, but for some reason that means he still isn't as good as the best. Is beating MC, MKP, MMA, Polt, DongRaeGu, Boxer, TheSTC, Hero, Thorzain, Puma, Real, JYP, Ganzi, Parting, Squirtle, Heart and Rain not enough to say 'perhaps Stephano is on the level of Koreans?' Or would one be so bold as to argue that these results against these Koreans shouldn't count?
To be fair stephano has only won vs these top Koreans on his home turf or the USA tourneys.
It is much harder on the Koreans who travel to Euro and USA, Stephano feels much better @ USA/Euro so those wins mean very little in Korea.
South Korea is the real deal, different environment, Koreans home turf, they have the power, skill and practice routine to make people who travel to South Korea to look like nothing. Kespa has taken out their own in Korea making it a new world with higher skill curve that EG does not provide, Yes EG is a great team, yes they are rich and can pay players big. But do they have high skill practice?? no they dont. Do 95% of their teams provide more personality and entertainment then gaming skill? Yes.
I mean you can't compare the work Koreans put in, compared to how laid back EG players are. They don't get half the practice other teams get.
Please stop posting. Stephano's home turf is France, not the US. He did fine in the Blizzard cup in Korea. He's played everywhere and done well everywhere. Please. Stop. Posting.
Yea, getting smacked out of the first round is "fine" indeed. Why are so many people hellbent on justifying failure?
Losing to idra and xlord, boy that sure is Code S level huh? I'm sure when he gets knocked out of the first round of Code S he'll do just "fine" as well.
On January 01 2013 16:18 decado90 wrote: Stephano is in for a very rude awakening.
For the past two years he's put off competing in the GSL, opting for foreign gutter. Went to ESWC instead of MLG to preserve his image against fail competition-- loses to a foreigner. Loses the series to Bomber, yet wins LSC2. Humiliated by idra and Xlord-- two foreigners that don't even register in the upper echelon of foreigners. Beats MKP and MMA, mkp who is in a straight up TvZ free fall and MMA who's already hit the ground, and he's proclaimed Code S.
Stephano is not Code S. In fact, I'll laugh when he's knocked into Code B. I'm sure the fanboys will make up some excuse, probably similar to the excuses they gave when he was spanked the last time he was in Korea, and I'll just laugh even more.
Stephano is nothing remotely special and would struggle to be even considered in the top 50 among Koreans. Simply the best foreigner--the same difference in appeal as the piece of bread that's been pissed on instead of shit on.
This is exactly the kind of thought that I try and challenge by writing this - by looking at his results, Stephano has at one point beaten every single big Korean name, even the highest tier Korean pros - he's probably taken down every Code S champion that's still playing at least once. I believe for a lot of people, this won't matter, and the mindset of Koreans > Foreigners will still remain strong. But here is a foreigner that has beaten everyone, but for some reason that means he still isn't as good as the best. Is beating MC, MKP, MMA, Polt, DongRaeGu, Boxer, TheSTC, Hero, Thorzain, Puma, Real, JYP, Ganzi, Parting, Squirtle, Heart and Rain not enough to say 'perhaps Stephano is on the level of Koreans?' Or would one be so bold as to argue that these results against these Koreans shouldn't count?
To be fair stephano has only won vs these top Koreans on his home turf or the USA tourneys.
It is much harder on the Koreans who travel to Euro and USA, Stephano feels much better @ USA/Euro so those wins mean very little in Korea.
South Korea is the real deal, different environment, Koreans home turf, they have the power, skill and practice routine to make people who travel to South Korea to look like nothing. Kespa has taken out their own in Korea making it a new world with higher skill curve that EG does not provide, Yes EG is a great team, yes they are rich and can pay players big. But do they have high skill practice?? no they dont. Do 95% of their teams provide more personality and entertainment then gaming skill? Yes.
I mean you can't compare the work Koreans put in, compared to how laid back EG players are. They don't get half the practice other teams get.
Please stop posting. Stephano's home turf is France, not the US. He did fine in the Blizzard cup in Korea. He's played everywhere and done well everywhere. Please. Stop. Posting.
Yea, getting smacked out of the first round is "fine" indeed. Why are so many people hellbent on justifying failure?
Losing to idra and xlord, boy that sure is Code S level huh? I'm sure when he gets knocked out of the first round of Code S he'll do just "fine" as well.
Your logic is flawed. MKP lost to Stephano and he is code S. So with your logic, MKP doesn't deserve to be in code S Ro16 for the last 5 GSL ? Right ? He's not the code S Caliber the most consistant right ?
On January 01 2013 16:18 decado90 wrote: Stephano is in for a very rude awakening.
For the past two years he's put off competing in the GSL, opting for foreign gutter. Went to ESWC instead of MLG to preserve his image against fail competition-- loses to a foreigner. Loses the series to Bomber, yet wins LSC2. Humiliated by idra and Xlord-- two foreigners that don't even register in the upper echelon of foreigners. Beats MKP and MMA, mkp who is in a straight up TvZ free fall and MMA who's already hit the ground, and he's proclaimed Code S.
Stephano is not Code S. In fact, I'll laugh when he's knocked into Code B. I'm sure the fanboys will make up some excuse, probably similar to the excuses they gave when he was spanked the last time he was in Korea, and I'll just laugh even more.
Stephano is nothing remotely special and would struggle to be even considered in the top 50 among Koreans. Simply the best foreigner--the same difference in appeal as the piece of bread that's been pissed on instead of shit on.
This is exactly the kind of thought that I try and challenge by writing this - by looking at his results, Stephano has at one point beaten every single big Korean name, even the highest tier Korean pros - he's probably taken down every Code S champion that's still playing at least once. I believe for a lot of people, this won't matter, and the mindset of Koreans > Foreigners will still remain strong. But here is a foreigner that has beaten everyone, but for some reason that means he still isn't as good as the best. Is beating MC, MKP, MMA, Polt, DongRaeGu, Boxer, TheSTC, Hero, Thorzain, Puma, Real, JYP, Ganzi, Parting, Squirtle, Heart and Rain not enough to say 'perhaps Stephano is on the level of Koreans?' Or would one be so bold as to argue that these results against these Koreans shouldn't count?
To be fair stephano has only won vs these top Koreans on his home turf or the USA tourneys.
It is much harder on the Koreans who travel to Euro and USA, Stephano feels much better @ USA/Euro so those wins mean very little in Korea.
South Korea is the real deal, different environment, Koreans home turf, they have the power, skill and practice routine to make people who travel to South Korea to look like nothing. Kespa has taken out their own in Korea making it a new world with higher skill curve that EG does not provide, Yes EG is a great team, yes they are rich and can pay players big. But do they have high skill practice?? no they dont. Do 95% of their teams provide more personality and entertainment then gaming skill? Yes.
I mean you can't compare the work Koreans put in, compared to how laid back EG players are. They don't get half the practice other teams get.
Please stop posting. Stephano's home turf is France, not the US. He did fine in the Blizzard cup in Korea. He's played everywhere and done well everywhere. Please. Stop. Posting.
Yea, getting smacked out of the first round is "fine" indeed. Why are so many people hellbent on justifying failure?
Losing to idra and xlord, boy that sure is Code S level huh? I'm sure when he gets knocked out of the first round of Code S he'll do just "fine" as well.
Your logic is flawed. MKP lost to Stephano and he is code S. So with your logic, MKP doesn't deserve to be in code S Ro16 for the last 5 GSL ? Right ? He's not the code S Caliber the most consistant right ?
At IPL 4, pre patch, Stephano was rolled by both MMA and MKP. MKP trolled with nukes and mules as well.
On January 01 2013 16:18 decado90 wrote: Stephano is in for a very rude awakening.
For the past two years he's put off competing in the GSL, opting for foreign gutter. Went to ESWC instead of MLG to preserve his image against fail competition-- loses to a foreigner. Loses the series to Bomber, yet wins LSC2. Humiliated by idra and Xlord-- two foreigners that don't even register in the upper echelon of foreigners. Beats MKP and MMA, mkp who is in a straight up TvZ free fall and MMA who's already hit the ground, and he's proclaimed Code S.
Stephano is not Code S. In fact, I'll laugh when he's knocked into Code B. I'm sure the fanboys will make up some excuse, probably similar to the excuses they gave when he was spanked the last time he was in Korea, and I'll just laugh even more.
Stephano is nothing remotely special and would struggle to be even considered in the top 50 among Koreans. Simply the best foreigner--the same difference in appeal as the piece of bread that's been pissed on instead of shit on.
This is exactly the kind of thought that I try and challenge by writing this - by looking at his results, Stephano has at one point beaten every single big Korean name, even the highest tier Korean pros - he's probably taken down every Code S champion that's still playing at least once. I believe for a lot of people, this won't matter, and the mindset of Koreans > Foreigners will still remain strong. But here is a foreigner that has beaten everyone, but for some reason that means he still isn't as good as the best. Is beating MC, MKP, MMA, Polt, DongRaeGu, Boxer, TheSTC, Hero, Thorzain, Puma, Real, JYP, Ganzi, Parting, Squirtle, Heart and Rain not enough to say 'perhaps Stephano is on the level of Koreans?' Or would one be so bold as to argue that these results against these Koreans shouldn't count?
To be fair stephano has only won vs these top Koreans on his home turf or the USA tourneys.
It is much harder on the Koreans who travel to Euro and USA, Stephano feels much better @ USA/Euro so those wins mean very little in Korea.
South Korea is the real deal, different environment, Koreans home turf, they have the power, skill and practice routine to make people who travel to South Korea to look like nothing. Kespa has taken out their own in Korea making it a new world with higher skill curve that EG does not provide, Yes EG is a great team, yes they are rich and can pay players big. But do they have high skill practice?? no they dont. Do 95% of their teams provide more personality and entertainment then gaming skill? Yes.
I mean you can't compare the work Koreans put in, compared to how laid back EG players are. They don't get half the practice other teams get.
Please stop posting. Stephano's home turf is France, not the US. He did fine in the Blizzard cup in Korea. He's played everywhere and done well everywhere. Please. Stop. Posting.
Yea, getting smacked out of the first round is "fine" indeed. Why are so many people hellbent on justifying failure?
Losing to idra and xlord, boy that sure is Code S level huh? I'm sure when he gets knocked out of the first round of Code S he'll do just "fine" as well.
You're getting boring. Mvp lost to Naama and monchi and he's the epitome of Code S level.
On January 01 2013 10:22 Nuzoybot wrote: Even if he is lazy (which i dont believe so much, but thats a separate issue), I am sure that being in Korea with EGs infrastructurre will help. He's a great player, and if his coaches help him I believe he can do great. No other foreigner boasts such a record against koreans, so if you wont rally behind him then who.
That's the point. There are probably 30 or more Koreans better than Stephano. Hell, over 20 Koreans are higher than him in foreign TLPD, Getting "behind" a foreigner is simply blind cheering for an inferior player simply because of his ethnicity. Never understood it myself, but I'll be glad when he's knocked to Code B and this whole farce is over with.
I'm taking the bait. You do realize that Stephano was #1 overall in international Elo (among all players) for a good portion of 2012 and that before he more or less completely stopped practicing for about 2 months was #1 overall (of all races) in vP and vT matchups, yes? Even in his present diminished state, there is no way that there are 30 Koreans better than Stephano. He just stomped MVP and MKP (and MMA, although he's not so special anymore) using roach-hydra. This man is a genius (who needs to practice a bit more than he currently does).
Eh, it actually isn't really anything special. It's a timing attacking designed to hit before siege mode is done when a Terran goes triple orbital. If a Code S Terran like MVP or MKP studied the build for a couple of hours, they would design a counter build.
On January 01 2013 16:18 decado90 wrote: Stephano is in for a very rude awakening.
For the past two years he's put off competing in the GSL, opting for foreign gutter. Went to ESWC instead of MLG to preserve his image against fail competition-- loses to a foreigner. Loses the series to Bomber, yet wins LSC2. Humiliated by idra and Xlord-- two foreigners that don't even register in the upper echelon of foreigners. Beats MKP and MMA, mkp who is in a straight up TvZ free fall and MMA who's already hit the ground, and he's proclaimed Code S.
Stephano is not Code S. In fact, I'll laugh when he's knocked into Code B. I'm sure the fanboys will make up some excuse, probably similar to the excuses they gave when he was spanked the last time he was in Korea, and I'll just laugh even more.
Stephano is nothing remotely special and would struggle to be even considered in the top 50 among Koreans. Simply the best foreigner--the same difference in appeal as the piece of bread that's been pissed on instead of shit on.
This is exactly the kind of thought that I try and challenge by writing this - by looking at his results, Stephano has at one point beaten every single big Korean name, even the highest tier Korean pros - he's probably taken down every Code S champion that's still playing at least once. I believe for a lot of people, this won't matter, and the mindset of Koreans > Foreigners will still remain strong. But here is a foreigner that has beaten everyone, but for some reason that means he still isn't as good as the best. Is beating MC, MKP, MMA, Polt, DongRaeGu, Boxer, TheSTC, Hero, Thorzain, Puma, Real, JYP, Ganzi, Parting, Squirtle, Heart and Rain not enough to say 'perhaps Stephano is on the level of Koreans?' Or would one be so bold as to argue that these results against these Koreans shouldn't count?
To be fair stephano has only won vs these top Koreans on his home turf or the USA tourneys.
It is much harder on the Koreans who travel to Euro and USA, Stephano feels much better @ USA/Euro so those wins mean very little in Korea.
South Korea is the real deal, different environment, Koreans home turf, they have the power, skill and practice routine to make people who travel to South Korea to look like nothing. Kespa has taken out their own in Korea making it a new world with higher skill curve that EG does not provide, Yes EG is a great team, yes they are rich and can pay players big. But do they have high skill practice?? no they dont. Do 95% of their teams provide more personality and entertainment then gaming skill? Yes.
I mean you can't compare the work Koreans put in, compared to how laid back EG players are. They don't get half the practice other teams get.
Please stop posting. Stephano's home turf is France, not the US. He did fine in the Blizzard cup in Korea. He's played everywhere and done well everywhere. Please. Stop. Posting.
Yea, getting smacked out of the first round is "fine" indeed. Why are so many people hellbent on justifying failure?
Losing to idra and xlord, boy that sure is Code S level huh? I'm sure when he gets knocked out of the first round of Code S he'll do just "fine" as well.
Your logic is flawed. MKP lost to Stephano and he is code S. So with your logic, MKP doesn't deserve to be in code S Ro16 for the last 5 GSL ? Right ? He's not the code S Caliber the most consistant right ?
At IPL 4, pre patch, Stephano was rolled by both MMA and MKP. MKP trolled with nukes and mules as well.
It was MMA for the nuke.
And what ? 2011 ESCW, Stephano 2-0 MKP in a convincing fashion. Your argument is invalid and you are just a hater.
On January 01 2013 16:18 decado90 wrote: Stephano is in for a very rude awakening.
For the past two years he's put off competing in the GSL, opting for foreign gutter. Went to ESWC instead of MLG to preserve his image against fail competition-- loses to a foreigner. Loses the series to Bomber, yet wins LSC2. Humiliated by idra and Xlord-- two foreigners that don't even register in the upper echelon of foreigners. Beats MKP and MMA, mkp who is in a straight up TvZ free fall and MMA who's already hit the ground, and he's proclaimed Code S.
Stephano is not Code S. In fact, I'll laugh when he's knocked into Code B. I'm sure the fanboys will make up some excuse, probably similar to the excuses they gave when he was spanked the last time he was in Korea, and I'll just laugh even more.
Stephano is nothing remotely special and would struggle to be even considered in the top 50 among Koreans. Simply the best foreigner--the same difference in appeal as the piece of bread that's been pissed on instead of shit on.
This is exactly the kind of thought that I try and challenge by writing this - by looking at his results, Stephano has at one point beaten every single big Korean name, even the highest tier Korean pros - he's probably taken down every Code S champion that's still playing at least once. I believe for a lot of people, this won't matter, and the mindset of Koreans > Foreigners will still remain strong. But here is a foreigner that has beaten everyone, but for some reason that means he still isn't as good as the best. Is beating MC, MKP, MMA, Polt, DongRaeGu, Boxer, TheSTC, Hero, Thorzain, Puma, Real, JYP, Ganzi, Parting, Squirtle, Heart and Rain not enough to say 'perhaps Stephano is on the level of Koreans?' Or would one be so bold as to argue that these results against these Koreans shouldn't count?
To be fair stephano has only won vs these top Koreans on his home turf or the USA tourneys.
It is much harder on the Koreans who travel to Euro and USA, Stephano feels much better @ USA/Euro so those wins mean very little in Korea.
South Korea is the real deal, different environment, Koreans home turf, they have the power, skill and practice routine to make people who travel to South Korea to look like nothing. Kespa has taken out their own in Korea making it a new world with higher skill curve that EG does not provide, Yes EG is a great team, yes they are rich and can pay players big. But do they have high skill practice?? no they dont. Do 95% of their teams provide more personality and entertainment then gaming skill? Yes.
I mean you can't compare the work Koreans put in, compared to how laid back EG players are. They don't get half the practice other teams get.
Please stop posting. Stephano's home turf is France, not the US. He did fine in the Blizzard cup in Korea. He's played everywhere and done well everywhere. Please. Stop. Posting.
Yea, getting smacked out of the first round is "fine" indeed. Why are so many people hellbent on justifying failure?
Losing to idra and xlord, boy that sure is Code S level huh? I'm sure when he gets knocked out of the first round of Code S he'll do just "fine" as well.
Your logic is flawed. MKP lost to Stephano and he is code S. So with your logic, MKP doesn't deserve to be in code S Ro16 for the last 5 GSL ? Right ? He's not the code S Caliber the most consistant right ?
At IPL 4, pre patch, Stephano was rolled by both MMA and MKP. MKP trolled with nukes and mules as well.
the Stephano MKP game was 2-1 so hardly rolled - though i don't remember the exact games.
the MMA game was indeed a 2-0 sweep - and it was MMA who did the nukes etc. however lets not forget that MMA was at the time still really fucking sick, and had some of if not the best TvZ in the world.
At the same tournament stephano also 2-0'd bomber who had just topped his own group - and played an intense series with Nestea - including a game on antigua shipyard where Stephano completely outplayed him.
Sure Stephano didnt win IPL4 - but he did finish top 6 - in what was probably the most stacked weelend-tournament to date at the time.
if you want to use IPL4 to discredit Stephano - why not do the same for MKP who got schooled by Alive and Squirtle just as much as Stephano did by MKP and MMA.