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On January 07 2013 20:34 thekaas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 20:28 Poopi wrote:On January 07 2013 20:27 thekaas wrote:On January 07 2013 19:48 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 07 2013 19:40 Ch3rry wrote: Well, Flash is definitelly Code-S level.
MC also has 3:2 in this group and goes directly to Code S
Flash has 3:2 record, and some people in here are saying nonsense like he is gonna to drop down from Code A! Are you frickin' serious?! Look at Flashes losses closer in the up/downs. The only map he dropped was Cloud Kingdom (both to JD and MC). Also, look at his history on Cloud Kingdom, it's terrible. I personally don't think he hasn't found a way to play the map yet. He won all of the big maps. Put any top tier code S player against Flash on a big map and I am sure he'd win. Put any top tier code S player on a small map and I am sure they'd have a high chance of winning. Flash just needs to figure out a way to play smaller maps and he'll be good to go. But, I am sure after this season all of the small maps will be removed and leave only the bigger ones. To add to that, Cloud Kingdom isn't part of the Proleague mappool, so he probably didn't prepare for it. So why do I see Fanta vs Dear and JangBi vs SoulKey on cloud kingdom? xd. It seems I have embarrassed myself. Disregard what I just said.
You have in no way embarrassed yourself, Flash didn't play Cloud Kingdom in his all-kill, obviously not needing to prepare to play it.
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On January 07 2013 21:10 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 21:07 Elroi wrote: I don't know how how good Life, Parting etc (the eSF (?)) players are. But I think Flash is the best proleague player. If you look at the way he played yesterday he clearly is better than Hero and Taeja. He literally was playing much better than them. He wasn't "clearly better" than them. He played Antiga perfectly but it was Antiga. There's a reason why protoss hate this map and considering how it went, HerO put up a great fight. You can't take one game on a terran favored map and call him better than HerO. Didn't see the game vs Taeja. LOL Hero could chose the map he was going to play on and he had a week to prepare for Flash on it since Flash was send out first and probably would beat Revival. And still he looked like an amateur playing against a pro.
On January 07 2013 21:12 AxionSteel wrote: Ah, Flash wins a Bo1 vs Taeja so he is clearly better. I see. Taeja roflstomped BaBy, who imo outclassed Flash in a Bo3, so yeh. Pretty pointless.
Thats why I said "if you look at the way he played yesterday".
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Austria24413 Posts
On January 07 2013 21:21 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 21:10 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 07 2013 21:07 Elroi wrote: I don't know how how good Life, Parting etc (the eSF (?)) players are. But I think Flash is the best proleague player. If you look at the way he played yesterday he clearly is better than Hero and Taeja. He literally was playing much better than them. He wasn't "clearly better" than them. He played Antiga perfectly but it was Antiga. There's a reason why protoss hate this map and considering how it went, HerO put up a great fight. You can't take one game on a terran favored map and call him better than HerO. Didn't see the game vs Taeja. LOL Hero could chose the map he was going to play on and he a week to prepare for Flash on it since Flash was send out first and probably would beat Revival. And still he looked like an amateur playing against a pro.
HerO has at every occasion said that he hates the map and the only reason he doesn't have it vetoed is because tournaments use it. I can assure you that he's not comfortable playing Antiga. Protoss in general is not and it was pretty obvious why. You get contained super easily on 2 bases without much you can do about it. Flash played the map perfectly, as I said. But it was one game on a terran favored map. That doesn't mean Flash > HerO.
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Austria24413 Posts
I would screenshot you the many times he's said on stream that he hates Antiga. If it was about him being comfortable on a map, he would've played on Cloud Kingdom or Entombed (which I think is new in the map pool?) Anyway. It was fairly obvious why protoss in general hate the map. Even if not, one game doesn't mean Flash > HerO. Flash played it amazingly, not taking anything away from him. But it was one game on Antiga.
To the guy saying that HerO looked like an amateur vs a pro: watch Flash vs MC from Up/Downs.
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On January 07 2013 21:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:I would screenshot you the many times he's said on stream that he hates Antiga. If it was about him being comfortable on a map, he would've played on Cloud Kingdom or Entombed (which I think is new in the map pool?) Anyway. It was fairly obvious why protoss in general hate the map. Even if not, one game doesn't mean Flash > HerO. Flash played it amazingly, not taking anything away from him. But it was one game on Antiga. To the guy saying that HerO looked like an amateur vs a pro: watch Flash vs MC from Up/Downs. Still, why did he play that map if he hates it?
Yeah, I watched Flash vs MC. Whats your point?
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On January 07 2013 19:34 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 18:52 mongmong wrote:On January 07 2013 17:03 GolemMadness wrote:On January 07 2013 16:46 mongmong wrote: If he is truly code S level then he shouldve gone 5-0 to all his opponents like LiquidHero did last season. Even so, Hero's run ended in ro32 by soulkey and curious.A true Code S level player doesnt fail twice in up and downs. Call me a sadist, but im extremely gladthat he didnt make it and dont have to see any more blind Flash fanboys going "oh my GOD he is making everyone look like a noob"
So if you don't 5-0 your U&D group you're not truly code S level? Really? Not really implying he isnt Code S, but he's blown his opportunity TWICE. If Flash really wanted to prove that he is code S level player he should have, but couldnt. Why lose to MC by being ridiculously greedy when he already knows that MC is super aggressive? Flash fanboys need to wait until HOTS comes out because this season's GSL is the last they play on WOL. What do you mean you aren't implying it? You literally just said that if he were truly code S level he would have gone 5-0. That's not implying he isn't; it's just saying he isn't. Making one oversight in one game which prevents you from getting into code S doesn't mean that you aren't at that level. That's just silly.
If this was his first try I would agree but you dont seem to know where he was at last time?
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Code A since he obviously can't get into Code S after two seasons, although he might be low Code S level I suppose.
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Austria24413 Posts
On January 07 2013 21:45 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 21:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:I would screenshot you the many times he's said on stream that he hates Antiga. If it was about him being comfortable on a map, he would've played on Cloud Kingdom or Entombed (which I think is new in the map pool?) Anyway. It was fairly obvious why protoss in general hate the map. Even if not, one game doesn't mean Flash > HerO. Flash played it amazingly, not taking anything away from him. But it was one game on Antiga. To the guy saying that HerO looked like an amateur vs a pro: watch Flash vs MC from Up/Downs. Still, why did he play that map if he hates it? Yeah, I watched Flash vs MC. Whats your point?
Maybe because the coach was confident that he'd win regardless. Maybe he thought HerO was the best option to play, even if he hates the map. The same guy also played JYP vs Flash later. I don't know why but I'm pretty sure it wasn't HerO saying "Hey, I wanna play this map!"
Flash's opening looked like something I could do better. But it was just one game so it doesn't really mean MC > Flash. Right?
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Zomg I didn't realise this was the last GSL on WoL O_O I wonder what they are gonna do for the release of HotS
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On January 07 2013 21:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:I would screenshot you the many times he's said on stream that he hates Antiga. If it was about him being comfortable on a map, he would've played on Cloud Kingdom or Entombed (which I think is new in the map pool?) Anyway. It was fairly obvious why protoss in general hate the map. Even if not, one game doesn't mean Flash > HerO. Flash played it amazingly, not taking anything away from him. But it was one game on Antiga. To the guy saying that HerO looked like an amateur vs a pro: watch Flash vs MC from Up/Downs.
Just because he hates it doesn't mean that he isn't good on it.
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On January 07 2013 21:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:I would screenshot you the many times he's said on stream that he hates Antiga. If it was about him being comfortable on a map, he would've played on Cloud Kingdom or Entombed (which I think is new in the map pool?) Anyway. It was fairly obvious why protoss in general hate the map. Even if not, one game doesn't mean Flash > HerO. Flash played it amazingly, not taking anything away from him. But it was one game on Antiga. To the guy saying that HerO looked like an amateur vs a pro: watch Flash vs MC from Up/Downs.
Flash plays better on bigger maps. Flash has a horrible record on Cloud Kingdom. Whereas in Flash vs Hero, Hero had a great record on Antiga vs Terran. So what's your point?
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Austria24413 Posts
On January 07 2013 21:52 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 21:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:I would screenshot you the many times he's said on stream that he hates Antiga. If it was about him being comfortable on a map, he would've played on Cloud Kingdom or Entombed (which I think is new in the map pool?) Anyway. It was fairly obvious why protoss in general hate the map. Even if not, one game doesn't mean Flash > HerO. Flash played it amazingly, not taking anything away from him. But it was one game on Antiga. To the guy saying that HerO looked like an amateur vs a pro: watch Flash vs MC from Up/Downs. Flash plays better on bigger maps. Flash isn't nearly as good on smaller maps. So what's your point?
Uh what Which basically means Flash is only a Code S level player on big maps? What kind of argument is that. Also, not building a bunker doesn't have shit to do with Cloud Kingdom, WTF. He just played a horrible opening. HerO didn't even make mistakes if you watch their game but neither did Flash. Antiga did the rest. That's why it was such a high level game.
Here's what happened in HerO vs Flash.
Standard openings from both. Flash moves out with medivacs, contains HerO because you can easily do that on Antiga. Flash sets up a third, continues to reinforce his army, keeps his contain up because Antiga lets you do that. His economy kicks in, he has even more reinforcements, his upgrades pull ahead. HerO has to move out and take a fight where he can't trade cost efficiently because he moves down into a concave. Armies trade kinda evenly but that means Flash comes out ahead. Flash builds army back up faster, attacks again, kills third. HerO loses. Flash played amazingly, I said that a thousand times. But so did HerO. It was one game on Antiga.
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On January 07 2013 21:46 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 19:34 GolemMadness wrote:On January 07 2013 18:52 mongmong wrote:On January 07 2013 17:03 GolemMadness wrote:On January 07 2013 16:46 mongmong wrote: If he is truly code S level then he shouldve gone 5-0 to all his opponents like LiquidHero did last season. Even so, Hero's run ended in ro32 by soulkey and curious.A true Code S level player doesnt fail twice in up and downs. Call me a sadist, but im extremely gladthat he didnt make it and dont have to see any more blind Flash fanboys going "oh my GOD he is making everyone look like a noob"
So if you don't 5-0 your U&D group you're not truly code S level? Really? Not really implying he isnt Code S, but he's blown his opportunity TWICE. If Flash really wanted to prove that he is code S level player he should have, but couldnt. Why lose to MC by being ridiculously greedy when he already knows that MC is super aggressive? Flash fanboys need to wait until HOTS comes out because this season's GSL is the last they play on WOL. What do you mean you aren't implying it? You literally just said that if he were truly code S level he would have gone 5-0. That's not implying he isn't; it's just saying he isn't. Making one oversight in one game which prevents you from getting into code S doesn't mean that you aren't at that level. That's just silly. If this was his first try I would agree but you dont seem to know where he was at last time?
Of course I do. However, that was two and a half months ago. He wasn't as good back then, and it really has no bearing on his current skill level. Incidentally, even at the time he still tied for second in the group. It's been since Proleague came back that he's really started to show faster and faster improvement.
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On January 07 2013 21:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 21:52 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 07 2013 21:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:I would screenshot you the many times he's said on stream that he hates Antiga. If it was about him being comfortable on a map, he would've played on Cloud Kingdom or Entombed (which I think is new in the map pool?) Anyway. It was fairly obvious why protoss in general hate the map. Even if not, one game doesn't mean Flash > HerO. Flash played it amazingly, not taking anything away from him. But it was one game on Antiga. To the guy saying that HerO looked like an amateur vs a pro: watch Flash vs MC from Up/Downs. Flash plays better on bigger maps. Flash isn't nearly as good on smaller maps. So what's your point? Uh what Which basically means Flash is only a Code S level player on big maps? What kind of argument is that. Also, not building a bunker doesn't have shit to do with Cloud Kingdom, WTF. He just played a horrible opening. HerO didn't even make mistakes if you watch their game but neither did Flash. Antiga did the rest. That's why it was such a high level game.
Yes It would hurt me to watch Hero vs Flash vod from yesterday but I already have watched it several times since it was such a high level play. I was amazed by both sides. Flash's monsterous fucking macro and Hero's insaaaane micro. A truely top notch TvP.
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Fantasy was the better player than Flash at the end of Brood War, I don't know why people say that "Fantasy might have the edge now, but Flash will beat him in the end." Fantasy even had to practice Brood War for longer.
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All this arguing is pretty pointless anyway, as we all know that when HoTS comes out and most game knowledge is reset, Flash will improve the fastest and become the best for all eternity. He is God after all...
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Do his parents even come to watch him play or do they know the outcome already :p? He is definately code s when its 20 min in and his resources are 0/0 and he is crunching nerds you know he is good .
Edit: Oh shiz , I forgot it was my bday till i saw my post ! Thanks TL!
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On January 07 2013 21:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 21:52 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 07 2013 21:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:I would screenshot you the many times he's said on stream that he hates Antiga. If it was about him being comfortable on a map, he would've played on Cloud Kingdom or Entombed (which I think is new in the map pool?) Anyway. It was fairly obvious why protoss in general hate the map. Even if not, one game doesn't mean Flash > HerO. Flash played it amazingly, not taking anything away from him. But it was one game on Antiga. To the guy saying that HerO looked like an amateur vs a pro: watch Flash vs MC from Up/Downs. Flash plays better on bigger maps. Flash isn't nearly as good on smaller maps. So what's your point? Uh what Which basically means Flash is only a Code S level player on big maps? What kind of argument is that. Also, not building a bunker doesn't have shit to do with Cloud Kingdom, WTF. He just played a horrible opening. HerO didn't even make mistakes if you watch their game but neither did Flash. Antiga did the rest. That's why it was such a high level game. Here's what happened in HerO vs Flash. Standard openings from both. Flash moves out with medivacs, contains HerO because you can easily do that on Antiga. Flash sets up a third, continues to reinforce his army, keeps his contain up because Antiga lets you do that. His economy kicks in, he has even more reinforcements, his upgrades pull ahead. HerO has to move out and take a fight where he can't trade cost efficiently because he moves down into a concave. Armies trade kinda evenly but that means Flash comes out ahead. Flash builds army back up faster, attacks again, kills third. HerO loses. Flash played amazingly, I said that a thousand times. But so did HerO. It was one game on Antiga.
I said flash is better on bigger maps. Also, look at Flashes record on cloud kingdom. There's a lot more then "just not building a bunker" going on there. Flash isn't as good on smaller maps because he's open to all kinds of all ins. Well, I personally never said that hero didn't play we'll. so, basically what you're saying is the only way that you'll be convinced that Flash is the better player is if he stomps hero on a map that favors Protoss, correct?
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On January 07 2013 22:03 Grumbels wrote: Fantasy was the better player than Flash at the end of Brood War, I don't know why people say that "Fantasy might have the edge now, but Flash will beat him in the end." Fantasy even had to practice Brood War for longer.
Better at head to head, maybe. I believe Flash's TvZ was still unrivalled to the end of BW. No doubt, no doubt, Fantasy was overall running deeper in the OSL...
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