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Austria24413 Posts
On January 07 2013 22:09 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 21:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 07 2013 21:52 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 07 2013 21:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:I would screenshot you the many times he's said on stream that he hates Antiga. If it was about him being comfortable on a map, he would've played on Cloud Kingdom or Entombed (which I think is new in the map pool?) Anyway. It was fairly obvious why protoss in general hate the map. Even if not, one game doesn't mean Flash > HerO. Flash played it amazingly, not taking anything away from him. But it was one game on Antiga. To the guy saying that HerO looked like an amateur vs a pro: watch Flash vs MC from Up/Downs. Flash plays better on bigger maps. Flash isn't nearly as good on smaller maps. So what's your point? Uh what Which basically means Flash is only a Code S level player on big maps? What kind of argument is that. Also, not building a bunker doesn't have shit to do with Cloud Kingdom, WTF. He just played a horrible opening. HerO didn't even make mistakes if you watch their game but neither did Flash. Antiga did the rest. That's why it was such a high level game. Here's what happened in HerO vs Flash. Standard openings from both. Flash moves out with medivacs, contains HerO because you can easily do that on Antiga. Flash sets up a third, continues to reinforce his army, keeps his contain up because Antiga lets you do that. His economy kicks in, he has even more reinforcements, his upgrades pull ahead. HerO has to move out and take a fight where he can't trade cost efficiently because he moves down into a concave. Armies trade kinda evenly but that means Flash comes out ahead. Flash builds army back up faster, attacks again, kills third. HerO loses. Flash played amazingly, I said that a thousand times. But so did HerO. It was one game on Antiga. I said flash is better on bigger maps. Also, look at Flashes record on cloud kingdom. There's a lot more then "just not building a bunker" going on there. Flash isn't as good on smaller maps because he's open to all kinds of all ins. Well, I personally never said that hero didn't play we'll. so, basically what you're saying is the only way that you'll be convinced that Flash is the better player is if he stomps hero on a map that favors Protoss, correct?
No, the only way I'll be convinced is if Flash starts posting results over a long period of time and establishes himself as a top SC2 player. Single matches don't really say too much in my opinion. I'm not saying that Flash isn't the better player. All I'm saying is that this was one game on a debatable map. So people should be a little more careful proclaiming him the "cleary better" player.
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Doesn't matter how good he is at the moment, we must ask ourselves how brilliant can he get with the impossibly fast improvement rate he has been showing since the switch to SC2.
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I think Flash belongs in the top 32 of koreans, probably around rank 30-25 or so.
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I would say Flash is my favorite Terran and favorite player. He got what it takes to take the top spot.
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On January 07 2013 09:32 Anonymous_Coward wrote:If he surpasses 4 Code S championships, when right now he can't even qualify, we'll talk. While I don't believe that he is the to terran or nowhere near the top at the moment, you don't need to have more championships than MVP to be the top terran atm.
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If the system for GSL Code A/S/UpDown matches wasn't so odd, the true players that deserve it would make it more often. Prepping a few solid builds specifically for Flash on certain maps is a far cry from a true, and longer series against some of the players he has had to face.
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I'd probably put him top 30ish.
Out of the terrans i'd put him around 6-8 probably with his TvT and TvZ needing some improvement to really get there.
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On January 08 2013 00:28 antilyon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 09:32 Anonymous_Coward wrote:On January 07 2013 09:28 dbg wrote: hes the best terran player in the world If he surpasses 4 Code S championships, when right now he can't even qualify, we'll talk. While I don't believe that he is the to terran or nowhere near the top at the moment, you don't need to have more championships than MVP to be the top terran atm.
That is until Mvp decides to get that G5L trophy!
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On January 08 2013 00:28 antilyon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 09:32 Anonymous_Coward wrote:On January 07 2013 09:28 dbg wrote: hes the best terran player in the world If he surpasses 4 Code S championships, when right now he can't even qualify, we'll talk. While I don't believe that he is the to terran or nowhere near the top at the moment, you don't need to have more championships than MVP to be the top terran atm. He also didn't say top terran but best terran player in the world and that title still goes to Mvp.
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I don't understand the question- He's Flash.
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On January 08 2013 00:31 divito wrote: If the system for GSL Code A/S/UpDown matches wasn't so odd, the true players that deserve it would make it more often. Prepping a few solid builds specifically for Flash on certain maps is a far cry from a true, and longer series against some of the players he has had to face. How is the system for Code A odd? If he would have won his last BO3, he would be in Code S. He lost, so he goes to Up-and-Downs. The u-d are very unforgiving, if you want to go to Code S then you have to win all of your games, otherwise you rely on luck. Look at Squirtle and Taeja, both of those guys are clearly Code S talent, so what did they do? They destroyed everyone in their u-d group and are going to Code S. That is what Code S caliber players do: they destroy non-Code S level players to get into Code S. Flash has had a few chances to do that (last season Code A matches, this season Code A matches, and the two u-d chances), which he hasn't done. He might be fringe Code S level, but he is not a top tier Code S player, or he would have dominated his group.
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Top 25 Koreans, top 5-10 Terrans? I don't really have a solid peg on Flash in all matchups; same with Fantasy and a few others. His TvT and TvZ seem like they could use improvement. I don't think he's top 3 quite yet, although based on his rate of improvement, I could see him getting there relatively quickly.
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On January 07 2013 21:10 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 21:07 Elroi wrote: I don't know how how good Life, Parting etc (the eSF (?)) players are. But I think Flash is the best proleague player. If you look at the way he played yesterday he clearly is better than Hero and Taeja. He literally was playing much better than them. He wasn't "clearly better" than them. He played Antiga perfectly but it was Antiga. There's a reason why protoss hate this map and considering how it went, HerO put up a great fight. You can't take one game on a terran favored map and call him better than HerO. Didn't see the game vs Taeja.
Ah, the good ol' "Antiga" argument.
It's funny that it's claimed as such a 'great' Terran map, yet Terran had sub 50% winrates on it in both TvZ and TvP in 2012.
TvP: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=500&part=games&matchup=TvP&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2013&to_month=1&to_day=7&action=Update
But, I guess you and all the other people that blindly spew shit you heard Idra say don't care about statistics.
So, yea I agree with you. Protoss can't beat Terran on Antiga.
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Austria24413 Posts
On January 08 2013 02:19 decado90 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 21:10 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 07 2013 21:07 Elroi wrote: I don't know how how good Life, Parting etc (the eSF (?)) players are. But I think Flash is the best proleague player. If you look at the way he played yesterday he clearly is better than Hero and Taeja. He literally was playing much better than them. He wasn't "clearly better" than them. He played Antiga perfectly but it was Antiga. There's a reason why protoss hate this map and considering how it went, HerO put up a great fight. You can't take one game on a terran favored map and call him better than HerO. Didn't see the game vs Taeja. Ah, the good ol' "Antiga" argument. It's funny that it's claimed as such a 'great' Terran map, yet Terran had sub 50% winrates on it in both TvZ and TvP in 2012. TvP: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=500&part=games&matchup=TvP&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2013&to_month=1&to_day=7&action=UpdateBut, I guess you and all the other people that blindly spew shit you heard Idra say don't care about statistics. So, yea I agree with you. Protoss can't beat Terran on Antiga.
a) Your arguments are horrible, b) I've never watched Idra stream even once and c) I also wrote a quick summary of what happened earlier. Maybe you noticed that I said "Flash played the map perfectly". Maybe not every terran does that. Should I explain to you why protoss hate the map or are you intelligent enough to figure it out yourself?
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Riddle me this: If Flash is Code S level, why is he even playing in the Up and Downs? Shouldn't he be able to roll through Code A and hop directly to Code S? Bottom line, Flash is a Code A level player(albeit: a topping Code A player, and being "code a" isn't exactly an insult). He's had FLASHES(get it?) of brilliance, but there are still obvious holes in his play.
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Code A level at present, which is no bad thing as any top tier Code A Player can beat anyone on their day. The only Kespa player i have seen so far i consider to Code S is Rain.
As to the future who knows. HOTS is gonna fuck it all up for at least 6 months to year, where any one could win the GSL
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On January 08 2013 02:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 02:19 decado90 wrote:On January 07 2013 21:10 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 07 2013 21:07 Elroi wrote: I don't know how how good Life, Parting etc (the eSF (?)) players are. But I think Flash is the best proleague player. If you look at the way he played yesterday he clearly is better than Hero and Taeja. He literally was playing much better than them. He wasn't "clearly better" than them. He played Antiga perfectly but it was Antiga. There's a reason why protoss hate this map and considering how it went, HerO put up a great fight. You can't take one game on a terran favored map and call him better than HerO. Didn't see the game vs Taeja. Ah, the good ol' "Antiga" argument. It's funny that it's claimed as such a 'great' Terran map, yet Terran had sub 50% winrates on it in both TvZ and TvP in 2012. TvP: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=500&part=games&matchup=TvP&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2013&to_month=1&to_day=7&action=UpdateBut, I guess you and all the other people that blindly spew shit you heard Idra say don't care about statistics. So, yea I agree with you. Protoss can't beat Terran on Antiga. a) Your arguments are horrible, b) I've never watched Idra stream even once and c) I also wrote a quick summary of what happened earlier. Maybe you noticed that I said "Flash played the map perfectly". Maybe not every terran does that. Should I explain to you why protoss hate the map or are you intelligent enough to figure it out yourself?
"You can't take one game on a terran favored map and call him better than HerO."
- DarkLordOlli
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He's getting to Code S regular level but not just there yet. I don't project him to pass MVP anytime soon yet. His mechanics are unbelievable but MVP's game sense is just crazy and his ability to adapt to the changing meta. I think he'll nevertheless become a very a top tier player and I can't wait to see it.
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Austria24413 Posts
On January 08 2013 02:37 decado90 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 02:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 08 2013 02:19 decado90 wrote:On January 07 2013 21:10 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 07 2013 21:07 Elroi wrote: I don't know how how good Life, Parting etc (the eSF (?)) players are. But I think Flash is the best proleague player. If you look at the way he played yesterday he clearly is better than Hero and Taeja. He literally was playing much better than them. He wasn't "clearly better" than them. He played Antiga perfectly but it was Antiga. There's a reason why protoss hate this map and considering how it went, HerO put up a great fight. You can't take one game on a terran favored map and call him better than HerO. Didn't see the game vs Taeja. Ah, the good ol' "Antiga" argument. It's funny that it's claimed as such a 'great' Terran map, yet Terran had sub 50% winrates on it in both TvZ and TvP in 2012. TvP: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=500&part=games&matchup=TvP&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2013&to_month=1&to_day=7&action=UpdateBut, I guess you and all the other people that blindly spew shit you heard Idra say don't care about statistics. So, yea I agree with you. Protoss can't beat Terran on Antiga. a) Your arguments are horrible, b) I've never watched Idra stream even once and c) I also wrote a quick summary of what happened earlier. Maybe you noticed that I said "Flash played the map perfectly". Maybe not every terran does that. Should I explain to you why protoss hate the map or are you intelligent enough to figure it out yourself? "You can't take one game on a terran favored map and call him better than HerO." - DarkLordOlli
Wow, that was the most incredible argument I've ever seen. Thank you very much. Let me rephrase that. "A map that favors intelligent terrans". Happy now? My point still stands, it's one game on Antiga Shipyard, a map every protoss absolutely despises unless it's PvP or they want something to blink all in on. Now can you please not be stupid and make real arguments instead?
But before that inevitably doesn't happen, why don't you tell me how to take a third base on Antiga as protoss against what Flash did. I'm sure you know better than every protoss out there and HerO too. But maybe don't do it in here because this is going far off topic.
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I think he's one of the players who could be in code s, dependent on u&d group or code a bracket. Too few results to say anything else, really. Sometimes he's plays really well, sometimes he seems to make weird decisions, which may cost him the game. That's good enough to get into code s, to be a regular is something else. You almost have to be top tier to place for code s consistently.
@ antiga discussion: Lol, even if the map was protoss favored, 1 game doesn't say anything. Bomber proves time and time again that consistency is a very useful skill toi have.
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