Blizzard is going to be patching StarCraft II soon, and the changes in patch 2.0.10 are significant enough that replays from previous versions are incompatible with StarCraft II 2.0.10 and must be loaded in earlier versions of the game. But this doesn't mean you can't watch your old replays!
Right now, there is only some info about new replay feature - possibility to jump to any part of replay.
This thread will be main hub around new SC2 patch 2.0.10.
This ruins completely my game experience, Blizz should fire their replay designers. ... It's awesome, no more fast forwarding. It felt like watching a VCR.
I wonder if they have any plans to allow users to create game names for arcade games. Any game that has multiple setups or settings is impossible because you can not create game names...
How is this possible ? Technically speaking I mean. Right now, a replay is a log with all the commands done by each player, the replay re-simulate the entiere game until a certain point.
How will the game skip an entiere duration and know where will be the units etc etc ?
I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: How is this possible ? Technically speaking I mean. Right now, a replay is a log with all the commands done by each player, the replay re-simulate the entiere game until a certain point.
How will the game skip an entiere duration and know where will be the units etc etc ?
I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
Most likely just does it at the fastest speed (without gfx visuals) it can from the beggining point or the point you are currently at that is before the new desired point. If the game can keep up visuals at 8x or 16x then doing it without them should be a snap as long as the replay isn't incredibly long.
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: How is this possible ? Technically speaking I mean. Right now, a replay is a log with all the commands done by each player, the replay re-simulate the entiere game until a certain point.
How will the game skip an entiere duration and know where will be the units etc etc ?
I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
Maybe they will include periodic full state saves, e.g. every X minutes. And then commands from that point can be replayed. The indication is that there is still some time delay, but much less. Either it parses things much faster, and doesn't render, and that's how they get the speed, or there are shortcuts such as having a full state save or something.
Sounds like they must almost certainly be adding something to the replay that means not everything needs to be parsed through.
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: How is this possible ? Technically speaking I mean. Right now, a replay is a log with all the commands done by each player, the replay re-simulate the entiere game until a certain point.
How will the game skip an entiere duration and know where will be the units etc etc ?
I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
From the post:
Now you can jump ahead, and the replay will seek ahead as fast as it can and automatically resume playing when it reaches that time.
So it just sounds like it doesn't actually skip anything it's just able to run it faster than 8x. It can probably do that if it doesn't have to worry about making any updates to the game until it gets to the time you wanted.
On July 25 2013 02:47 garbanzo wrote: Cool news, however, why link that site as a source when you can link the original Blizzard newspost?
Because that site checks all the Blizzard posts, even if these posts aren't published in the news on main page
Thanks for the adding the Blizzard post. I just think it's important to make sure that information come from a firsthand source, especially when it comes to patches.
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: How is this possible ? Technically speaking I mean. Right now, a replay is a log with all the commands done by each player, the replay re-simulate the entiere game until a certain point.
How will the game skip an entiere duration and know where will be the units etc etc ?
I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
I tried to reply to you on B.net but it gave me an internal server error >.<
My guess would be that it simulates all the commands, actions, etc. but does not actually display them. Kind of does internal calculations. It is a very impressive addition to the replay feature and i'm looking forward to using it.
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: How is this possible ? Technically speaking I mean. Right now, a replay is a log with all the commands done by each player, the replay re-simulate the entiere game until a certain point.
How will the game skip an entiere duration and know where will be the units etc etc ?
I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
I tried to reply to you on B.net but it gave me an internal server error >.<
My guess would be that it simulates all the commands, actions, etc. but does not actually display them. Kind of does internal calculations. It is a very impressive addition to the replay feature and i'm looking forward to using it.
My shot in the dark is that they save game-state occasionally, then when you skip ahead, it goes to a game-state, then simulates from there to your point.
On July 25 2013 03:14 BisuDagger wrote: This jump feature will be great. So many times I screw up a battle and want to just quit and resume replay like a minute before. Can't wait!
On July 25 2013 03:14 BisuDagger wrote: This jump feature will be great. So many times I screw up a battle and want to just quit and resume replay like a minute before. Can't wait!
Let's be honest here, this patch will be like patch 1.5. Nothing will change (except stuff gets moved around), arcade will still be shit, and making a custom game will still require GM level knowledge.
On July 25 2013 03:18 phodacbiet wrote: Let's be honest here, this patch will be like patch 1.5. Nothing will change (except stuff gets moved around), arcade will still be shit, and making a custom game will still require GM level knowledge.
Well, you can check all patches here, including client-patches
As a caster, I'm fucking estatic about this. Such a pain when you accidently hit restart, or just want to load up the replay to show a certain point in the game (kind of like how SPL does).
Ty based Blizzard, I hope more fixes and additions come in this patch.
On July 25 2013 03:37 Master of DalK wrote: As a caster, I'm fucking estatic about this. Such a pain when you accidently hit restart, or just want to load up the replay to show a certain point in the game (kind of like how SPL does).
Ty based Blizzard, I hope more fixes and additions come in this patch.
I imagine Patch 2.0.10 will also coincide with the 4v4 bugfix patch.
On July 25 2013 03:37 Master of DalK wrote: As a caster, I'm fucking estatic about this. Such a pain when you accidently hit restart, or just want to load up the replay to show a certain point in the game (kind of like how SPL does).
Ty based Blizzard, I hope more fixes and additions come in this patch.
Well if you hit restart you can always go back to the point where you were.
I dont know why we cant go from a fnished game to the replay directly yet. Everything is loaded, every unit is there...Instead of leaveing the game I just want to watch the replay from there on and I have to load it all over again
Sounds like they must almost certainly be adding something to the replay that means not everything needs to be parsed through.
I got the impression that they would just parse the replay as fast as possible. For my friends system that lagscreens constantly at high speeds in shared replays (x8 or even x4 whenever a battle hits, so it takes 2-3x longer to reach the 1 hour mark than me) it wouldn't help much, for me for example with fast CPU singlethread, ram and ssd, it could probably run x20 or even more perhaps
On July 25 2013 03:54 ReignSupreme. wrote: Wow finally, another thing that should have been in the client from the start. Not even mad, just disappointed
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
Dota 2 has had this feature for a long time.
Dota 2's replays are handled vastly differently. The structure behind the SC2 replays makes stuff like this super difficult but it allows programs like SC2Gears to exist, where you can't have any of that awesome functionality for Dota.
Holy shit this is truly innovating. Other games and indeed probably movies, DVDs and TV will follow suit for years to come. Blizzard to change the world, you heard it here first.
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
Dota 2 has had this feature for a long time.
Dota 2's replays are handled vastly differently. The structure behind the SC2 replays makes stuff like this super difficult but it allows programs like SC2Gears to exist, where you can't have any of that awesome functionality for Dota.
Also they are kind of different games in terms of functionality a replay would have to support. Last I looked, SC2 replays were state based which makes sense given the game and why this took longer to come.
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
Dota 2 has had this feature for a long time.
well u need to wait like 15 min after a match to be able to view it(i guess cauz its uploading to the server?), which i rlly hated, while in sc2 u can watch it instantly after a game
On July 25 2013 03:54 ReignSupreme. wrote: Wow finally, another thing that should have been in the client from the start. Not even mad, just disappointed
Yeah, I hate when they don't include something that in-theory-shoul-be-impossible-to-make-but-somehow-they-defied-that-and made-it-possible straight away into the game...
Don't you feel this is just a slightly entitled point of view? :|
I really want to know how they are making this actually. So far no other game has ever been able to do this as far as I know - very impressive!
Also, is Day9 getting a nerf in response to this cause otherwise I don't see this being balanced at all.
I've always wondered why I couldn't forward in replays. Seems like it would be easy to implement but maybe it wasn't their priority. Good news regardless.
On July 25 2013 03:54 ReignSupreme. wrote: Wow finally, another thing that should have been in the client from the start. Not even mad, just disappointed
Yeah, I hate when they don't include something that in-theory-shoul-be-impossible-to-make-but-somehow-they-defied-that-and made-it-possible straight away into the game...
Why should it be impossible in theory? If it just loaded the whole file into a buffer like any video you watch locally, or really any non-live streamed video you would be able to jump around, right?
On July 25 2013 03:54 ReignSupreme. wrote: Wow finally, another thing that should have been in the client from the start. Not even mad, just disappointed
Yeah, I hate when they don't include something that in-theory-shoul-be-impossible-to-make-but-somehow-they-defied-that-and made-it-possible straight away into the game...
Why should it be impossible in theory? If it just loaded the whole file into a buffer like any video you watch locally, or really any non-live streamed video you would be able to jump around, right?
I think DOTA2 has the ability to do this already, but it's some weird server thing
Starcraft2 replays record only player actions to make the files smaller ( 20-100kb or so ) Dota2 replays probably saves where everything is per every frame making the replay files about 20-30mb.
There likely is a sweet spot between those two extremes that allows replay seeking without gigantic replay files of dota2.
On July 25 2013 03:54 ReignSupreme. wrote: Wow finally, another thing that should have been in the client from the start. Not even mad, just disappointed
Yeah, I hate when they don't include something that in-theory-shoul-be-impossible-to-make-but-somehow-they-defied-that-and made-it-possible straight away into the game...
Why should it be impossible in theory? If it just loaded the whole file into a buffer like any video you watch locally, or really any non-live streamed video you would be able to jump around, right?
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: How is this possible ? Technically speaking I mean. Right now, a replay is a log with all the commands done by each player, the replay re-simulate the entiere game until a certain point.
How will the game skip an entiere duration and know where will be the units etc etc ?
I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
I'd imagine the new system will take up more memory and space in the sense that either the replays will be partially "pre-buffered" or individual units will have more properties (position, action, current command, etc.).
I wouldn't say it's much of a technical achievement; I'm sure Blizzard was able to do this long time ago, only limited by the amount of memory and space typical PC users had in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if other RTS games had this feature long before SC2.
YES! Blizzard should focus on stuff like this instead of sitting on their asses and waiting for a blatant imbalance. What about a colorblind mode, I sure need that. What about making 1v1 ftp and making promo cards like lol so you can play as your favorite color. Make skins for every unit. I love the Buffed Day[9] joke
Anyone else think that Valve programmers are acid heads that cause the most random bugs for no apparent reason and Blizzard programmers are heroin junkies who just take forever to do anything? There really is no other explanation.
On July 25 2013 11:14 reps)squishy wrote: YES! Blizzard should focus on stuff like this instead of sitting on their asses and waiting for a blatant imbalance. What about a colorblind mode, I sure need that.
On July 25 2013 07:04 NeThZOR wrote: Great news. I always wondered why they left out this feature.
Because the replay was just a log of the commands issued, thats why replays could actually look a bit different each time. Was funny when that happened in BW replays big times and then game went complete insane. At the end you didn't have many features due to this, but it was fast and small, which is always preferable over load times.
They probably log a bit more now, which is the reason why replays will become incompatible. Hope it doesn't affect load times to much but I am rather curious how they made it work.
And resume from replay is probably the main reason why this gets implemented.
On July 25 2013 11:14 reps)squishy wrote: YES! Blizzard should focus on stuff like this instead of sitting on their asses and waiting for a blatant imbalance. What about a colorblind mode, I sure need that.
(July 12th) We've actually been working on colorblind support and I think you will see something very shortly on it.
Cool, thanks for bringing this up. I'm hoping this means they'll finally, and I mean almost after 2 years, be looking at re-adding something like Stronger Team Colors. I mean... It was already created, and still works in GameHeart, has no direct affect on the game, and only helps people with vision issues. I don't even have vision issues and I preferred it simply because it looked way better.
I just figured replays would take up too much space, with such a feature. If not I wonder why it was implemented so late, possibly since the main objective was to improve the resume from replay function.
Not sure if this is relevant, but sometimes when I'm playing, random units will keep spamming their "selection acknowledgement sound" even when I'm not hotkey cycling so much, or anything. The only way to get my units to shut up is to alt tab the game lol. Is this an old bug, or is it just me? OR is it gonna get fixed?
On July 25 2013 02:50 Zelniq wrote: i bet they still don't fix the zerg bugged egg hatching sound that happens every egg that hatches -_-
this was literally the needle on the haystack that resulted in me taking a break from SC2 lol
Is that the one that made the egg hatching sound like a cancelled egg?
I thought they fixed that. Maybe I just tuned it out.
it's the same sound as a zergling dying. it's a little explosion, it's annoying
Dug up that.. I'm going to pay attention to that today haha, would be awesome. SPLAT SPLAT -> Hey there roaches!
Sorry I play Zerg as well and it's the most insane thing to happen. For me it sounds a little bit like units popping out from eggs. Basically what happens is that the weird sound keeps repeating itself for like 3 minutes. Always happens when I'm streaming. Can't seem to find specific cause or solution to it. Blizzard tried to fix it couple patches ago, but it seems that they could not do it...
Confused why this wasn't implemented in the first place. Did they think that in the course of a 50 minute game where you only want to see the last engagement that you'd really want to watch the first 48 minutes of gameplay at x8 speed?
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: How is this possible ? Technically speaking I mean. Right now, a replay is a log with all the commands done by each player, the replay re-simulate the entiere game until a certain point.
How will the game skip an entiere duration and know where will be the units etc etc ?
I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
Simply process the actions in the background (there's likely other ways to do it but that seems by far the easiest)? TBH I'm not sure why this hasn't been in from the start.
On July 25 2013 21:45 doktorLucifer wrote: Not sure if this is relevant, but sometimes when I'm playing, random units will keep spamming their "selection acknowledgement sound" even when I'm not hotkey cycling so much, or anything. The only way to get my units to shut up is to alt tab the game lol. Is this an old bug, or is it just me? OR is it gonna get fixed?
press control+s wait 2 seconds press control+s again. As long as you mute the sound long enough for an entire "cycle" to go through the sound will disappear.
On July 25 2013 21:45 doktorLucifer wrote: Not sure if this is relevant, but sometimes when I'm playing, random units will keep spamming their "selection acknowledgement sound" even when I'm not hotkey cycling so much, or anything. The only way to get my units to shut up is to alt tab the game lol. Is this an old bug, or is it just me? OR is it gonna get fixed?
yah this a known bug, it seemed a lot worse during beta, would happen to me every game, now only occasionally pausing/unpausing also makes those units shut up
On July 25 2013 21:45 doktorLucifer wrote: Not sure if this is relevant, but sometimes when I'm playing, random units will keep spamming their "selection acknowledgement sound" even when I'm not hotkey cycling so much, or anything. The only way to get my units to shut up is to alt tab the game lol. Is this an old bug, or is it just me? OR is it gonna get fixed?
yah this a known bug, it seemed a lot worse during beta, would happen to me every game, now only occasionally pausing/unpausing also makes those units shut up
for me, pressing strg + s (disabling sound), waiting for a second, pressing strg + s (enabling sound) again makes the probe shut the fudge up!
I'm hoping Blizz took down notes from LoL/DotA2 clients to actually make improvements to the current client. But yeah, replay function improvement is a good start. One step at a time I guess
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: How is this possible ? Technically speaking I mean. Right now, a replay is a log with all the commands done by each player, the replay re-simulate the entiere game until a certain point.
How will the game skip an entiere duration and know where will be the units etc etc ?
I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
I've seen a lot of people say this. Does no one actually fully read the patch notes? They specifically say, "Now you can jump ahead, and the replay will seek ahead as fast as it can and automatically resume playing when it reaches that time." The game will still process all of the commands it is given. It just doesn't make you watch it process everything. It isn't going to be an instant jump. Probably the quality of your computer will decide how fast you can actually skip ahead.
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: How is this possible ? Technically speaking I mean. Right now, a replay is a log with all the commands done by each player, the replay re-simulate the entiere game until a certain point.
How will the game skip an entiere duration and know where will be the units etc etc ?
I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
I've seen a lot of people say this. Does no one actually fully read the patch notes? They specifically say, "Now you can jump ahead, and the replay will seek ahead as fast as it can and automatically resume playing when it reaches that time." The game will still process all of the commands it is given. It just doesn't make you watch it process everything. It isn't going to be an instant jump. Probably the quality of your computer will decide how fast you can actually skip ahead.
I like it, sure it's within Blizzards time-frame of updating things, so It's fairly late to some degree, but I really enjoy it! It's subtle but such a nice things. Hopefully we can get some hot fixes in as well!
On July 26 2013 00:28 Shinespark wrote: I hope they patch the mothership core so its attack isn't so damn loud. I mean it's about as loud as a tank shot and it does like 5 damage.
I know... every time I hear it, I think it's doing a lot of damage when in fact it is just tickling them
LOL? After..what?...3 or 4 years NOW they implement this? Blizzard is failing all the way damn it and I thought Valve is fail with their decisions about everything but this O_O
I hope the patch includes a fix to the bug where certain sound effects keep looping indefinately, i saw it was fixed in a previous patch, but i still get it from time to time, talk about something annoying am i right?
On July 25 2013 02:56 Shade_FR wrote: How is this possible ? Technically speaking I mean. Right now, a replay is a log with all the commands done by each player, the replay re-simulate the entiere game until a certain point.
How will the game skip an entiere duration and know where will be the units etc etc ?
I guess it's a technical achievement from Blizzard. Congrats to the devs.
I suspect they will add a gamestate in the replay "log" such that he game client can recreate what the game looks like at that point. The replay will get longer as it needs to hold more information to allow scrubbing forwards and backwards. Pretty cool Bliz, it's about time.
honestly can all those negatives idiots just shut up "its about time" hell be happy that they actually implemented it. they waited 3 years they could have easily waited 3 more. its not like this is going to change the meta.
On July 26 2013 01:15 GoodSirTets wrote: It takes three years to patch so we can jump to any part of replays?
You think its that easy from technical side of view? :>
As a CS-student i wouldnt say its terrible terrible hard, the thing is, its far down the priority list of the dev-staff, since replays worked pretty well without this feature.
On July 26 2013 00:47 FFW_Rude wrote: I see a lot of people that say : "what, it's about time" etc...
Is this the good way to say you are happy that they implemented it ? Why all people are negative i don't get it.
They think it makes them look cool.
Complaining on the internet about stuff we don't understand or have limited experience doing is the best way to look hip and awesome. I am waiting for the next level:
Post: My wife was in labor for 36 hour with our son, he is beautiful healthy and strong.
Internet response: Took her long enough, geez. She had 9 months to plan for that and it still look 36 hours. You should consider getting a better wife. I am writting an email to your healthcare provider to tell them to drop you for your wife's lack luster effort.
On July 26 2013 01:38 Riner1212 wrote: will they be working on something to prevent hackers from playing the game?
Dont you know? Blizzard is already working on that. Dude have you been living under a rock?
They even have a "report hacker" system ingame.
Nice touch, not that its very needed
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
Blizzard company is giant, they have tons of resources, but they're implementing such small features (replay resume, replay scroll, replay control) every year?
I think, they can more, I believe. Yeah, Blizzard can do more, but they don't want, if anyone already loves them. Especially when there is no competition. If there is no competition, then it becomes stale. Only when Blizzards will have "enemy" which can do something better at RTS making, only then Blizzard will do more. Right now there is no reason to do more.
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
Blizzard company is giant, they have tons of resources, but they're implementing such small features (replay resume, replay scroll, replay control) every year?
I think, they can more, I believe. Yeah, Blizzard can do more, but they don't want, if anyone already loves them. Especially when there is no competition. If there is no competition, then it becomes stale. Only when Blizzards will have "enemy" which can do something better at RTS making, only then Blizzard will do more. Right now there is no reason to do more.
I think their WoW revenue is 80+% of their income? (iirc)
Which means that SC2, D3, Titan, +other R&D projects fight over most likely only 20% of their attention.
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
Blizzard company is giant, they have tons of resources, but they're implementing such small features (replay resume, replay scroll, replay control) every year?
I think, they can more, I believe. Yeah, Blizzard can do more, but they don't want, if anyone already loves them. Especially when there is no competition. If there is no competition, then it becomes stale. Only when Blizzards will have "enemy" which can do something better at RTS making, only then Blizzard will do more. Right now there is no reason to do more.
You do realise that Dota 2 replays kinda suck and there are no LoL replays. Thats right, no LoL replays. They have the best replay system out there, better than any other game. Yet for some reason people think Blizzard is slacking.
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
Blizzard company is giant, they have tons of resources, but they're implementing such small features (replay resume, replay scroll, replay control) every year?
I think, they can more, I believe. Yeah, Blizzard can do more, but they don't want, if anyone already loves them. Especially when there is no competition. If there is no competition, then it becomes stale. Only when Blizzards will have "enemy" which can do something better at RTS making, only then Blizzard will do more. Right now there is no reason to do more.
You do realise that Dota 2 replays kinda suck and there are no LoL replays. Thats right, no LoL replays. They have the best replay system out there, better than any other game. Yet for some reason people think Blizzard is slacking.
The Dota 2 replay system seems good to me. It might be lacking some features like APM tracking but overall it seems decent, I don't really have any problems with it.
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
Blizzard company is giant, they have tons of resources, but they're implementing such small features (replay resume, replay scroll, replay control) every year?
I think, they can more, I believe. Yeah, Blizzard can do more, but they don't want, if anyone already loves them. Especially when there is no competition. If there is no competition, then it becomes stale. Only when Blizzards will have "enemy" which can do something better at RTS making, only then Blizzard will do more. Right now there is no reason to do more.
You might want to read this before stating Blizzard are a giant. Their parent company is 17 Billion dollars in debt and may be sucking Activision\ Blizzard dry in order to pay the bills. Its interesting stuff
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
Blizzard company is giant, they have tons of resources, but they're implementing such small features (replay resume, replay scroll, replay control) every year?
I think, they can more, I believe. Yeah, Blizzard can do more, but they don't want, if anyone already loves them. Especially when there is no competition. If there is no competition, then it becomes stale. Only when Blizzards will have "enemy" which can do something better at RTS making, only then Blizzard will do more. Right now there is no reason to do more.
You do realise that Dota 2 replays kinda suck and there are no LoL replays. Thats right, no LoL replays. They have the best replay system out there, better than any other game. Yet for some reason people think Blizzard is slacking.
The Dota 2 replay system seems good to me. It might be lacking some features like APM tracking but overall it seems decent, I don't really have any problems with it.
so u dont have the problem that u cant view the replaye immediatley after a match? when i want to know what excatly happened last game i have to wait like 10 -15 min before i can watch it, after that time i have already lost interest in watching the replay
i wonder if blizz just keeps like these little things that could've/should've been implemented years ago in their back pocket so whenever they are looked down upon they just pull one of them out so the community can love them
just wondering...but nonetheless about damn time...good patch
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
Blizzard company is giant, they have tons of resources, but they're implementing such small features (replay resume, replay scroll, replay control) every year?
I think, they can more, I believe. Yeah, Blizzard can do more, but they don't want, if anyone already loves them. Especially when there is no competition. If there is no competition, then it becomes stale. Only when Blizzards will have "enemy" which can do something better at RTS making, only then Blizzard will do more. Right now there is no reason to do more.
You do realise that Dota 2 replays kinda suck and there are no LoL replays. Thats right, no LoL replays. They have the best replay system out there, better than any other game. Yet for some reason people think Blizzard is slacking.
The Dota 2 replay system seems good to me. It might be lacking some features like APM tracking but overall it seems decent, I don't really have any problems with it.
so u dont have the problem that u cant view the replaye immediatley after a match? when i want to know what excatly happened last game i have to wait like 10 -15 min before i can watch it, after that time i have already lost interest in watching the replay
And what you get in return is being able to download replays from friends games, random matchmaking games replays and watch them or even watch a live game during the time you queue. Those bastards. And to top it off, good first person perspective of the player you want to watch, hot damn
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
Blizzard company is giant, they have tons of resources, but they're implementing such small features (replay resume, replay scroll, replay control) every year?
I think, they can more, I believe. Yeah, Blizzard can do more, but they don't want, if anyone already loves them. Especially when there is no competition. If there is no competition, then it becomes stale. Only when Blizzards will have "enemy" which can do something better at RTS making, only then Blizzard will do more. Right now there is no reason to do more.
You do realise that Dota 2 replays kinda suck and there are no LoL replays. Thats right, no LoL replays. They have the best replay system out there, better than any other game. Yet for some reason people think Blizzard is slacking.
The Dota 2 replay system seems good to me. It might be lacking some features like APM tracking but overall it seems decent, I don't really have any problems with it.
so u dont have the problem that u cant view the replaye immediatley after a match? when i want to know what excatly happened last game i have to wait like 10 -15 min before i can watch it, after that time i have already lost interest in watching the replay
And what you get in return is being able to download replays from friends games, random matchmaking games replays and watch them or even watch a live game during the time you queue. Those bastards. And to top it off, good first person perspective of the player you want to watch, hot damn
If you have to wait 15 minutes to watch a replay you're already playing the next game having learned nothing from the last game... If I wanted to watch replays for entertainment I'd download a pro-replay. Watching my own replays is for learning, waiting 15 minutes stops that.
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
Blizzard company is giant, they have tons of resources, but they're implementing such small features (replay resume, replay scroll, replay control) every year?
I think, they can more, I believe. Yeah, Blizzard can do more, but they don't want, if anyone already loves them. Especially when there is no competition. If there is no competition, then it becomes stale. Only when Blizzards will have "enemy" which can do something better at RTS making, only then Blizzard will do more. Right now there is no reason to do more.
You do realise that Dota 2 replays kinda suck and there are no LoL replays. Thats right, no LoL replays. They have the best replay system out there, better than any other game. Yet for some reason people think Blizzard is slacking.
The Dota 2 replay system seems good to me. It might be lacking some features like APM tracking but overall it seems decent, I don't really have any problems with it.
so u dont have the problem that u cant view the replaye immediatley after a match? when i want to know what excatly happened last game i have to wait like 10 -15 min before i can watch it, after that time i have already lost interest in watching the replay
And what you get in return is being able to download replays from friends games, random matchmaking games replays and watch them or even watch a live game during the time you queue. Those bastards. And to top it off, good first person perspective of the player you want to watch, hot damn
If you have to wait 15 minutes to watch a replay you're already playing the next game having learned nothing from the last game... If I wanted to watch replays for entertainment I'd download a pro-replay. Watching my own replays is for learning, waiting 15 minutes stops that.
Well I can't think of many instances when you actually need to review you play directly after a game in Dota. Usually the errors are pretty easy to find during the game.
On July 25 2013 02:50 Zelniq wrote: i bet they still don't fix the zerg bugged egg hatching sound that happens every egg that hatches -_-
this was literally the needle on the haystack that resulted in me taking a break from SC2 lol
I really hope the fix the sound that bugs out and starts playing over... and over... and over... and over... and over.. for like a minute of game time... bug.
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
Blizzard company is giant, they have tons of resources, but they're implementing such small features (replay resume, replay scroll, replay control) every year?
I think, they can more, I believe. Yeah, Blizzard can do more, but they don't want, if anyone already loves them. Especially when there is no competition. If there is no competition, then it becomes stale. Only when Blizzards will have "enemy" which can do something better at RTS making, only then Blizzard will do more. Right now there is no reason to do more.
You do realise that Dota 2 replays kinda suck and there are no LoL replays. Thats right, no LoL replays. They have the best replay system out there, better than any other game. Yet for some reason people think Blizzard is slacking.
The Dota 2 replay system seems good to me. It might be lacking some features like APM tracking but overall it seems decent, I don't really have any problems with it.
so u dont have the problem that u cant view the replaye immediatley after a match? when i want to know what excatly happened last game i have to wait like 10 -15 min before i can watch it, after that time i have already lost interest in watching the replay
And what you get in return is being able to download replays from friends games, random matchmaking games replays and watch them or even watch a live game durin g the time you queue. Those bastards. And to top it off, good first person perspective of the player you want to watch, hot damn
2 different games and methods u cant compare both games 1:1 , both system have adv and disadv, sc2 got this feature but dota got this feature etc., but i like the sc2 replay system more cauz its small and fast
btw i havnt searched for it, but it is possible to watch in d2 replays with friends together ingame?
@bo1b couple of minutes like 10-15 min?? before the rep is ready the next match already started and u already forgot about the past game and dont care about the replay anymore
I'm surprised it took them this long to add such a simple, helpful feature that everyone always wanted for replays. I guess there were more important things to do?
On July 26 2013 10:59 radscorpion9 wrote: I'm surprised it took them this long to add such a simple, helpful feature that everyone always wanted for replays. I guess there were more important things to do?
Replay with friends. Resume/recover from replay. More replay info for stuff like sc2gears. Customisable UI. More info tabs, click on icon in tab to jump to unit/building/upgrade
Making sure the above is bug-free and doesn't break the replay. Not to mention whatever other parts of the game that the personnel needed to address.
I can see it just fastforwarding WITHOUT rendering it. My guess is that the rendering aspect of fastforward was always the most demanding part; not having to render it could speed it incredibly.
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
Blizzard company is giant, they have tons of resources, but they're implementing such small features (replay resume, replay scroll, replay control) every year?
I think, they can more, I believe. Yeah, Blizzard can do more, but they don't want, if anyone already loves them. Especially when there is no competition. If there is no competition, then it becomes stale. Only when Blizzards will have "enemy" which can do something better at RTS making, only then Blizzard will do more. Right now there is no reason to do more.
A project complex like Starcraft 2 is not easy to handle. Any new feature interacts with a lot of things.
If you have a lot of manpower, many persons need to talk frequently to be updated on anything which they need to know. To add a feature which was not planned at the time of the development, can be a horrendous complex task even if the feature itself seems small from the user's standpoint.
It looks like with fast forwarding, the game gets to the point in the game while not rendering the content. That might seems easy "just disable the rendering". But any relevant object still needs to be updated according to the replay. So you have:
▸ the UI team, enabling fast forward into the region where no game data yet exists ▸ the rendering engine guys to ensure that the 3d graphics will resume without glitches ▸ the game engine group to make sure that still any object is updated even though it was not rendered
While we would like to have this feature right from the start, we still could be thankful that we get new features without having to play for DLC or an expansion.
Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though.
On July 26 2013 17:34 TranceKuja wrote: Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though.
That's kind of this for the most part I'm a programer but i know nothing about building a game that huge and i'm sure a LOT of people there don't know too
Really, this is something SC2 needed three years ago. LoL replays (from the 3rd party program) allow you to skip forward... Dota 2 replays allow you to skip forward. SC2 ones have to be played from the start and can only be fastforwarded to 8x speed.
Hell... Age of Empires II replays, which came in The Conquerors expansion pack which came out about 13 years ago had this support...
The fact this basic functionality took so long to implement makes me worry about Blizzard and the future of SC2.
On July 26 2013 17:34 TranceKuja wrote: Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though.
That's kind of this for the most part I'm a programer but i know nothing about building a game that huge and i'm sure a LOT of people there don't know too
You dont have to know how to program if you want to compare games. I have no clues about building cars and I can still talk about what I like and dont like and what a car should have today. If we were talking about completely new features that nobody would know how to implement, this would be a fair point. But this is about features that already exist. Moreover, Bnet 2.0 didnt have all functions bnet 1 had, and seeing a company that large taking a step back is really sad for the game.
In german we call something like this "bananenprinzip" it means the product is not finished completely when the customer gets it...
On July 26 2013 17:34 TranceKuja wrote: Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though.
That's kind of this for the most part I'm a programer but i know nothing about building a game that huge and i'm sure a LOT of people there don't know too
You dont have to know how to program if you want to compare games. I have no clues about building cars and I can still talk about what I like and dont like and what a car should have today. If we were talking about completely new features that nobody would know how to implement, this would be a fair point. But this is about features that already exist. Moreover, Bnet 2.0 didnt have all functions bnet 1 had, and seeing a company that large taking a step back is really sad for the game.
In german we call something like this "bananenprinzip" it means the product is not finished completely when the customer gets it...
Well... It's not the same platform, engine, so there is limitations maybe. Replays where not retrocompatible in BW so there is your step forward, also BW replays didn't have all the features that came in in SC2. Sure some stuff lacked in Bnet2.0 But comparing that another game has this fonctionality over this game is like saying
"I don't understand why there is no 12cylinder motor in my cars ! Ferrari have it ! It's easy to implement". (ok i'm bad at metaphore) but i just say that touching a BIG program can cause a lot of trouble, time, money etc...
Do you want to see HotS or do you want to fast forward replay. I'm gonna take an old work example for a small thing that took days of work.
Ok so we had a program that you could create "person/customer sheets". You could chose : "Mister or Madam". So the program was done with a boolean inbase (0 or 1). And years later, i had my boss saying : "Now people complain about it and they want : Mister, Madam and miss)...
This modification required to : "Modify the customer database", "Modify each "printscreen" of this, all the pages where you could specify gender" etc.. Took me a week to do it. (big program + i didn't know it really well, in a langage that i barely knew) but still. It would have been DAYS of work
Is it understandable ? Explaining this in english is quite difficult for me
On July 26 2013 17:34 TranceKuja wrote: Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though.
That's kind of this for the most part I'm a programer but i know nothing about building a game that huge and i'm sure a LOT of people there don't know too
You dont have to know how to program if you want to compare games. I have no clues about building cars and I can still talk about what I like and dont like and what a car should have today. If we were talking about completely new features that nobody would know how to implement, this would be a fair point. But this is about features that already exist. Moreover, Bnet 2.0 didnt have all functions bnet 1 had, and seeing a company that large taking a step back is really sad for the game.
In german we call something like this "bananenprinzip" it means the product is not finished completely when the customer gets it...
Well... It's not the same platform, engine, so there is limitations maybe. Replays where not retrocompatible in BW so there is your step forward, also BW replays didn't have all the features that came in in SC2. Sure some stuff lacked in Bnet2.0 But comparing that another game has this fonctionality over this game is like saying
"I don't understand why there is no 12cylinder motor in my cars ! Ferrari have it ! It's easy to implement". (ok i'm bad at metaphore) but i just say that touching a BIG program can cause a lot of trouble, time, money etc...
Do you want to see HotS or do you want to fast forward replay. I'm gonna take an old work example for a small thing that took days of work.
Ok so we had a program that you could create "person/customer sheets". You could chose : "Mister or Madam". So the program was done with a boolean inbase (0 or 1). And years later, i had my boss saying : "Now people complain about it and they want : Mister, Madam and miss)...
This modification required to : "Modify the customer database", "Modify each "printscreen" of this, all the pages where you could specify gender" etc.. Took me a week to do it. (big program + i didn't know it really well, in a langage that i barely knew) but still. It would have been DAYS of work
Is it understandable ? Explaining this in english is quite difficult for me
What you say is true in general, but the case here is they built a game from scratch knowing what features had to be in there from the start. Your miss example is a case of an added feature
On July 26 2013 17:34 TranceKuja wrote: Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though.
That's kind of this for the most part I'm a programer but i know nothing about building a game that huge and i'm sure a LOT of people there don't know too
You dont have to know how to program if you want to compare games. I have no clues about building cars and I can still talk about what I like and dont like and what a car should have today. If we were talking about completely new features that nobody would know how to implement, this would be a fair point. But this is about features that already exist. Moreover, Bnet 2.0 didnt have all functions bnet 1 had, and seeing a company that large taking a step back is really sad for the game.
In german we call something like this "bananenprinzip" it means the product is not finished completely when the customer gets it...
Well... It's not the same platform, engine, so there is limitations maybe. Replays where not retrocompatible in BW so there is your step forward, also BW replays didn't have all the features that came in in SC2. Sure some stuff lacked in Bnet2.0 But comparing that another game has this fonctionality over this game is like saying
"I don't understand why there is no 12cylinder motor in my cars ! Ferrari have it ! It's easy to implement". (ok i'm bad at metaphore) but i just say that touching a BIG program can cause a lot of trouble, time, money etc...
Do you want to see HotS or do you want to fast forward replay. I'm gonna take an old work example for a small thing that took days of work.
Ok so we had a program that you could create "person/customer sheets". You could chose : "Mister or Madam". So the program was done with a boolean inbase (0 or 1). And years later, i had my boss saying : "Now people complain about it and they want : Mister, Madam and miss)...
This modification required to : "Modify the customer database", "Modify each "printscreen" of this, all the pages where you could specify gender" etc.. Took me a week to do it. (big program + i didn't know it really well, in a langage that i barely knew) but still. It would have been DAYS of work
Is it understandable ? Explaining this in english is quite difficult for me
What you say is true in general, but the case here is they built a game from scratch knowing what features had to be in there from the start. Your miss example is a case of an added feature
I see what you mean. But i don't think you could fast forward replay in bw. Could you ? I don't remember.
I've written some scripts that analyze replay files, and they have some weird quirks right now; hopefully the update will fix some of them.
Lots of people have mentioned Dota2 replays, and I agree they are a lot better than SC2 replay files. Starcraft replays mostly track the clicks and commands the player makes. Since the game has no randomness, the commands can be used to perfectly recreate the match. Even with random elements, replays can still work this way though. Warcraft 3 used the same replay format, but you can write RNG algorithms that will always generate the same results.
The downside is that the replay file can't hold much information about the actual game state. For example, GGTracker can't tell you your exact army composition, it can only guess by looking at your unit selection commands. It doesn't know for sure if a unit dies, it just guesses that since you have one less marine in your control group, then a marine probably died. Another example is the screwed up build orders that SC2gears gives you. It knows you pressed the "make SCV" button, but it doesn't know if you are supply blocked or if you can actually afford the unit. So if you mash buttons it will think that you started producing 10 SCVs at once. The 2.0.8 patch added some new info to replay files that fixes some of this though.
Dota2 replays track user input, but also take occasional snapshots of the exact game state. When you fast-forward, it looks for the closest snapshot and loads it up. The downside is that these snapshots need to contain a lot of information. Dota2 replay files are much larger than SC2 replays because of that.
As far as people complaining about lazy/incompetent Blizzard programmers, even minor changes can have unforeseen consequences. They're more concerned with not breaking the game then they are with getting small improvements out as fast as possible.
On July 27 2013 01:01 BroMalone wrote: The downside is that the replay file can't hold much information about the actual game state. For example, GGTracker can't tell you your exact army composition, it can only guess by looking at your unit selection commands. It doesn't know for sure if a unit dies, it just guesses that since you have one less marine in your control group, then a marine probably died. Another example is the screwed up build orders that SC2gears gives you. It knows you pressed the "make SCV" button, but it doesn't know if you are supply blocked or if you can actually afford the unit. So if you mash buttons it will think that you started producing 10 SCVs at once. The 2.0.8 patch added some new info to replay files that fixes some of this though.
I'm the creator of Sc2ReplayStats.com and i can tell you that this "was" the case with the old replay format but with their last change in version 2.0.8 they added tracker events which include things of units being born, and killed, along with structures produced and killed. So sites like Sc2ReplayStats.com and GGtracker no longer have to guess based on selection, its a known.
For me i'm super excited to see what they added to the replay files.
On July 27 2013 01:01 BroMalone wrote: The downside is that the replay file can't hold much information about the actual game state. For example, GGTracker can't tell you your exact army composition, it can only guess by looking at your unit selection commands. It doesn't know for sure if a unit dies, it just guesses that since you have one less marine in your control group, then a marine probably died. Another example is the screwed up build orders that SC2gears gives you. It knows you pressed the "make SCV" button, but it doesn't know if you are supply blocked or if you can actually afford the unit. So if you mash buttons it will think that you started producing 10 SCVs at once. The 2.0.8 patch added some new info to replay files that fixes some of this though.
I'm the creator of Sc2ReplayStats.com and i can tell you that this "was" the case with the old replay format but with their last change in version 2.0.8 they added tracker events which include things of units being born, and killed, along with structures produced and killed. So sites like Sc2ReplayStats.com and GGtracker no longer have to guess based on selection, its a known.
For me i'm super excited to see what they added to the replay files.
Yea I mentioned the 2.0.8 change. Have you updated your site to use the new info? I'm not sure if GGtracker has.
Hopefully 2.0.10 makes that stuff easier though. 2.0.8 was a good addition, but it's still a pain to keep track of some things. Better tracking for larva hatching, warp ins, and chronoboosts would be nice.
Yea I mentioned the 2.0.8 change. Have you updated your site to use the new info? I'm not sure if GGtracker has.
Hopefully 2.0.10 makes that stuff easier though. 2.0.8 was a good addition, but it's still a pain to keep track of some things. Better tracking for larva hatching, warp ins, and chronoboosts would be nice.
Yes i have implemented the 2.0.8 changes on sc2replaystats, and i'm about 99% sure ggtracker has to.
Any new things they add into the replay file would make me very happy
Yea I mentioned the 2.0.8 change. Have you updated your site to use the new info? I'm not sure if GGtracker has.
Hopefully 2.0.10 makes that stuff easier though. 2.0.8 was a good addition, but it's still a pain to keep track of some things. Better tracking for larva hatching, warp ins, and chronoboosts would be nice.
Yes i have implemented the 2.0.8 changes on sc2replaystats, and i'm about 99% sure ggtracker has to.
Any new things they add into the replay file would make me very happy
Breath is correct, indeed GGTracker implemented the 2.0.8 changes. In fact we worked with Blizzard on it, which was fun
My life is now complete, this huge patch will affect me in so many ways. There are no words to express the impact this will have on my life... From now on I will wake up every single day and remember that I have been blessed with this unique opportunity in my life. I can skip to any part of replay, all that in a single patch. The peace of mind I've been searching for through balanced diet and regular excercising was actually in vain. The real path was right in front of my nose, the game we all love an enjoy, StarCraft 2 blessed us with answers to the mysteries of life and life beyond death. It will be my duty as a human being, to celebrate Patch 2.0.10. by declaring it my personal New Year. From that day on, I shall count years. From 0 onwards. I never really thought I'd say "skip to any part of the replay" in a single sentence. But that only proves that we shouldn't discard events that are almost impossible with a lot of prejudice. Tears of joy have been shed upon my eyes. This is a glorious day for all of us.
On July 27 2013 12:40 blarkh wrote: It is amazing how many people you can make mad by adding a feature they want to have.
It's just people letting go of their frustration on the matter, after much voiced disapproval at the lack of such features existing from the beginning. People eventually fade out until it finally gets fixed and then when complaining, they are in a way intending to thank Blizzard for putting it in, but have a stronger desire to stick a flag in the developers' eyes, one that says "SO WHY NOT HAVE THIS FROM THE START?". It's justified.
"blizzard programmers are lazy" really? You gotta love all these selfproclaimed experts on everything that somehow always show up in TL-threads... disgusting....
Blizzard company is giant, they have tons of resources, but they're implementing such small features (replay resume, replay scroll, replay control) every year?
I think, they can more, I believe. Yeah, Blizzard can do more, but they don't want, if anyone already loves them. Especially when there is no competition. If there is no competition, then it becomes stale. Only when Blizzards will have "enemy" which can do something better at RTS making, only then Blizzard will do more. Right now there is no reason to do more.
You do realise that Dota 2 replays kinda suck and there are no LoL replays. Thats right, no LoL replays. They have the best replay system out there, better than any other game. Yet for some reason people think Blizzard is slacking.
The Dota 2 replay system seems good to me. It might be lacking some features like APM tracking but overall it seems decent, I don't really have any problems with it.
so u dont have the problem that u cant view the replaye immediatley after a match? when i want to know what excatly happened last game i have to wait like 10 -15 min before i can watch it, after that time i have already lost interest in watching the replay
Yeah good point, that's always annoying and I hope it gets fixed
I did kind of expect the seeking function to be a bit quicker. Maybe that was my mistake for not having the technical knowledge to see how that was possible - I don't mean to rain on their parade, either, but it really didn't look that much more effective than just x8ing to the end, grabbing a snack and then seeking at my leisure.
It's far more effective than just running through at 8x speed. The screen goes blank so all the processing power goes towards simulating the game as fast as possible instead of spending resources on graphics. So instead of running at 8x speed it will run at 1000x speed.
You'll still be able to jump forward in the replay and it will only take a few seconds. I don't get what people are so mad about.
On July 30 2013 11:05 BroMalone wrote: It's far more effective than just running through at 8x speed. The screen goes blank so all the processing power goes towards simulating the game as fast as possible instead of spending resources on graphics. So instead of running at 8x speed it will run at 1000x speed.
You'll still be able to jump forward in the replay and it will only take a few seconds. I don't get what people are so mad about.
And by "all the processing power", we mean "2 cores, max".
On July 30 2013 07:25 R1CH wrote: So replay seeking was a big hoax, it just fast forwards while the screen is blanked out .
Called it
Seriously though, this is the most elegant solution for how they store replays. They would have to store their replays in a different format to make something better.