We know that this is a loaded subject, but insults and ad hominem attacks are not welcome. If you have nothing to say about the topic, refrain from posting.
It is with a tear in our eye and a heavy heart that we must announce the end of the LYGF Team. Our CEO is currently dealing with a terminal heart illness and cannot continue to run the team. While we realize that not everything was perfect in the eyes on the community, we were committed to our players and strove to be the best we could we could be. We worked hard and were dedicated to bringing our players to the next level. We worked with rising talents like Lucoda, Believe, StuN, Trace, and others while supporting established players like Tassadar, Genius, Mamuri and Neige. We thank our fans for supporting us, through thick and thin, and hope that you all give your thoughts and prayers to Pascal Anton, CEO of LYGF.
Some other notes: I'm just the writer, but i was told that the players will be paid for this month and then their contract will run out. I asked Pascal if he had a bucket list or anything of the sort, and he told me "i just want to spend time with my fiancee." He really does love his girlfriend.
On March 17 2014 09:18 darthfoley wrote: I supported your overall message, if nothing else. Gotta Love your GF
haha, i don't care about all the other drama, but i am down with this post
other than that, personally i think the 1% or whatever chance he really has an illness is worth not going for a "hilarious" troll about a person dying, but i guess i understand the reaction from those who assume it's bullshit
As a player for the team, I want to give my opinion on every thing from my point of view. For the record, I am Peter Healy, or Lucoda. The time I spent on LYGF was definitely the most enjoyable since I started playing SC2. Pascal and James were amazing managers in every respect. They really cared about us individually and wanted the best for all of us. It was really unfortunate how everything panned out with the various dramas about us but, even without holding the LYGF name now, I still stand by fully behind Pascal in what happened.
All of the lads in the team are all real solid players and you will definitely be hearing their names in the future. I hope ye all think of Pascal in your prayers or anything during the next few nights, he is very ill right now and deserves the support he can get.
To the fans that we had, thank you for supporting us through thick and thin. I'm really sorry for all the bad things that have happened. It's your support that helped us all throughout it.
If anyone wants to ask some questions I will answer to the best of my ability.
On March 17 2014 09:14 myxoma_strain wrote: Could you not have held on for just a little longer? I was dying to see what the uniform would be
This is either an incredibly tactless statement or some rather sublime trolling considering the content of the op.
The latter, obviously. What kind of arsehole makes jokes about someones terminal illness?
It's entirely possible it's all bullshit, but I'd rather not assume too much if a man's life is truly at stake. If it is indeed just a hoax to create a convenient cover, it will undoubtedly leak before long and whoever this person is, he will know the unbridled fury of the internet.
Are we really supposed to believe this? I mean really? Usually I think the community acts like a bunch of spoiled children but since we were lied to like children in the first place here, I can understand it.
On March 17 2014 09:14 myxoma_strain wrote: Could you not have held on for just a little longer? I was dying to see what the uniform would be
This is either an incredibly tactless statement or some rather sublime trolling considering the content of the op.
The latter, obviously. What kind of arsehole makes jokes about someones terminal illness?
It's entirely possible it's all bullshit, but I'd rather not assume too much if a man's life is truly at stake. If it is indeed just a hoax to create a convenient cover, it will undoubtedly leak before long and whoever this person is, he will know the unbridled fury of the internet.
honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if it were true. If I were looking for an easy out, especially after how people have looked at this team, I wouldn't do something that draws comparisons to the quantic debacle. That said, I'm not sure why he couldn't hand the team to someone else unless he was paying everyone from his own money, suggesting the team wouldn't last long anyway
On March 17 2014 09:25 Rickyvalle21 wrote: Wouldn't someone be able to take over him as CEO and not just completely disband. Kind of like La Lakers and Jerry-Jim Buss scenario.
It seems all farfetched to continue to not pay the many players they had. If the terminal illness is true, my heart goes out to him.
Get well soon.
Again, i'm just a writer so i don't have all the info, but i do believe that Pascal was paying for most of the team himself. Also, if anyone wants to know, i asked Pascal if he had a "bucket list" or anything he wanted to do before the end. he told me all he wanted to do was be with his fiancee. He really does love his girlfriend.
People seem to be making sweeping statements that players haven't been paid (despite it not been mentioned by the OP). Is this just wild speculation/shit-spreading or have I missed some background drama from reddit or something?
In other news this is the third, (Or fourth if you count FXO and fOu as different teams) that has disbanded in the last 5 months with Tassadar on it. This man may be cursed.
I hate the fact that the owner of quantic have forever tainted the terminal illness card. However, its nothing to joke with and if its the case, I wish your CEO the best of health.
awww i was really hoping for this team to actually become one of the up and coming premier teams :\ really wanted to see Genius back in the pro-sc circuits! also wanted to see the uniform and if having a girlfriend was a requirement for the members on the team :D
You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
On March 17 2014 09:40 Greendotz wrote: People seem to be making sweeping statements that players haven't been paid (despite it not been mentioned by the OP). Is this just wild speculation/shit-spreading or have I missed some background drama from reddit or something?
Pretty sure Mario made posts about this very briefly in his retirement post or something. I have no idea what the internal part of the team was like. Idk how the other players, korean or not, were treated but Mario did have at least one missed payment from what I kno.
no idea what to think of the OP >.>.... This thread tho... man.. hahaha
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's been confirmed that LYGF will pay any contracted player to the end of the month when the contract will end!
Sad that the team disbanded. I recall when the team was first formed and then they ended up with quite the roster a while back. Best of luck to Pascal with his sickness and hope the players can find other teams.
On March 17 2014 10:15 brainox wrote: Did any player participate in any tournament under LYGF? I never saw any player with LYGF tag or did i just miss it?
Genius played WCS EU.
I am pretty certain I noticed some other player(s) under the LYGF tag, don't remember who/when though.
On March 17 2014 10:28 HTOMario wrote: Strange, I don't remember hearing anything remotely related to any sort of heart issue. Let alone anything fatal in general.
Medical issues are generally pretty private unless they take a turn for the worse. Pascal told me about the condition a few months ago and said it was uncureable and he had to deal with it. Unfortunately it got worse...
On March 17 2014 10:15 brainox wrote: Did any player participate in any tournament under LYGF? I never saw any player with LYGF tag or did i just miss it?
Best wishes to the CEO. Sadly people on the internet will question the validity. Either way, it's a volatile business for start-up teams, so hopefully the players knew that going in.
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's death. It's not just an illness, it's arguably the worst illness. It's not a good way to avoid paying anything. It's a terrible way. You die. Why don't all the CEO's of every company just commit suicide to avoid- OH RIGHT death. If that's truly what you feel is going on keep it to yourself.
On March 17 2014 10:15 brainox wrote: Did any player participate in any tournament under LYGF? I never saw any player with LYGF tag or did i just miss it?
On March 17 2014 10:15 brainox wrote: Did any player participate in any tournament under LYGF? I never saw any player with LYGF tag or did i just miss it?
Genius played WCS EU.
I am pretty certain I noticed some other player(s) under the LYGF tag, don't remember who/when though.
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's death. It's not just an illness, it's arguably the worst illness. It's not a good way to avoid paying anything. It's a terrible way. You die. Why don't all the CEO's of every company just commit suicide to avoid- OH RIGHT death. If that's truly what you feel is going on keep it to yourself.
You are confused. People have LIED about illnesses before, including terminal ones, to not pay their players. That is why people are so cynical about it. This is not the first time this has happened and a team shut down because someone got "sick".
On March 17 2014 09:25 Nirel wrote: If nothing else, best team name ever
Agreed. The people in this thread are so damn cold (even for internet standards) that I guess I'm a little skeptical myself. But I won't feel right without saying best wishes to Pascal and his family.
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's death. It's not just an illness, it's arguably the worst illness. It's not a good way to avoid paying anything. It's a terrible way. You die. Why don't all the CEO's of every company just commit suicide to avoid- OH RIGHT death. If that's truly what you feel is going on keep it to yourself.
You are confused. People have LIED about illnesses before, including terminal ones, to not pay their players. That is why people are so cynical about it. This is not the first time this has happened and a team shut down because someone got "sick".
Its why we take it all with a grain of salt.
we don't know if it's the case here or not so posts like yours don't really help. Being cautious is fine but your post automatically assumes that it's a lie. Also, you talk about it being used to avoid paying players. If we go by the LYGF poster here assuming he is a legit player, they are confirmed to be paid so there's nothing to worry about there:
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's been confirmed that LYGF will pay any contracted player to the end of the month when the contract will end!
If any of the players complain, then it's worth a second look. People can get sick and they do quite often so there's a chance that it's the truth.
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's death. It's not just an illness, it's arguably the worst illness. It's not a good way to avoid paying anything. It's a terrible way. You die. Why don't all the CEO's of every company just commit suicide to avoid- OH RIGHT death. If that's truly what you feel is going on keep it to yourself.
You are confused. People have LIED about illnesses before, including terminal ones, to not pay their players. That is why people are so cynical about it. This is not the first time this has happened and a team shut down because someone got "sick".
Its why we take it all with a grain of salt.
we don't know if it's the case here or not so posts like yours don't really help. Being cautious is fine but your post automatically assumes that it's a lie. Also, you talk about it being used to avoid paying players. If we go by the LYGF poster here assuming he is a legit player, they are confirmed to be paid so there's nothing to worry about there:
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's been confirmed that LYGF will pay any contracted player to the end of the month when the contract will end!
If any of the players complain, then it's worth a second look. People can get sick and they do quite often so there's a chance that it's the truth.
The contracts themselves should have some sort of clause that allows the employer to terminate the contract due to circumstances such as this. Plenty of catch-all language out there in the contract world. The statement could have easily read that the team was disbanding and GG, but obviously wanted to share some more intimate detail.
If someone doesn't get paid, then yea it's an issue. Past events with other teams add to the skepticism, but contractually speaking it's perfectly fine to shut down a business and end employment. Paying out the team(employee) until the end of the month, a severance package in other words, is typical in many professions out there today.
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's death. It's not just an illness, it's arguably the worst illness. It's not a good way to avoid paying anything. It's a terrible way. You die. Why don't all the CEO's of every company just commit suicide to avoid- OH RIGHT death. If that's truly what you feel is going on keep it to yourself.
You are confused. People have LIED about illnesses before, including terminal ones, to not pay their players. That is why people are so cynical about it. This is not the first time this has happened and a team shut down because someone got "sick".
Its why we take it all with a grain of salt.
we don't know if it's the case here or not so posts like yours don't really help. Being cautious is fine but your post automatically assumes that it's a lie. Also, you talk about it being used to avoid paying players. If we go by the LYGF poster here assuming he is a legit player, they are confirmed to be paid so there's nothing to worry about there:
On March 17 2014 10:06 LucoxP wrote:
On March 17 2014 10:03 Plansix wrote:
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's been confirmed that LYGF will pay any contracted player to the end of the month when the contract will end!
If any of the players complain, then it's worth a second look. People can get sick and they do quite often so there's a chance that it's the truth.
The contracts themselves should have some sort of clause that allows the employer to terminate the contract due to circumstances such as this. Plenty of catch-all language out there in the contract world. The statement could have easily read that the team was disbanding and GG, but obviously wanted to share some more intimate detail.
If someone doesn't get paid, then yea it's an issue. Past events with other teams add to the skepticism, but contractually speaking it's perfectly fine to shut down a business and end employment. Paying out the team(employee) until the end of the month, a severance package in other words, is typical in many professions out there today.
My main point to Plansix was that while a healthy dose of caution is needed, unless we know 100% that the medical incident is a lie, we shouldn't be laying accusations(or w/e you want to call it) because it takes away from the main point of the thread which is that the team is going to close down. If it's false, I'm sure we would eventually find out about it.
Some really tactless and honestly embaressing posts here... Unless you have evidence otherwise, assume it is true and wish him the best. Just because another guy was an asshole doesn't mean this guy is. If he really is faking to get out of paying people, then yes that is horrible. But assume the best in him.
Best wishes and thanks for what you gave to the community.
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's death. It's not just an illness, it's arguably the worst illness. It's not a good way to avoid paying anything. It's a terrible way. You die. Why don't all the CEO's of every company just commit suicide to avoid- OH RIGHT death. If that's truly what you feel is going on keep it to yourself.
He's saying he may be lying about the illness, durrrr
On March 17 2014 11:45 SpunXtain20 wrote: Some really tactless and honestly embaressing posts here... Unless you have evidence otherwise, assume it is true and wish him the best. Just because another guy was an asshole doesn't mean this guy is. If he really is faking to get out of paying people, then yes that is horrible. But assume the best in him.
Best wishes and thanks for what you gave to the community.
Actually you usually assume things are false unless evidence shows them to be true, unless you know the person well or whatever, like a friend or family member. Given the HTOMario issue I believe everyone's skepticism is warranted. "Best wishes" won't do his heart much good anyways.
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's death. It's not just an illness, it's arguably the worst illness. It's not a good way to avoid paying anything. It's a terrible way. You die. Why don't all the CEO's of every company just commit suicide to avoid- OH RIGHT death. If that's truly what you feel is going on keep it to yourself.
He's saying he may be lying about the illness, durrrr
why would anyone lie about a terminal illness? do you know what happens with terminal illnesses? YOU DIE. you can't really fake that. this thread is an embarrassment.
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's death. It's not just an illness, it's arguably the worst illness. It's not a good way to avoid paying anything. It's a terrible way. You die. Why don't all the CEO's of every company just commit suicide to avoid- OH RIGHT death. If that's truly what you feel is going on keep it to yourself.
He's saying he may be lying about the illness, durrrr
why would anyone lie about a terminal illness? do you know what happens with terminal illnesses? YOU DIE. you can't really fake that. this thread is an embarrassment.
You really have no idea what is going on here do you?
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's death. It's not just an illness, it's arguably the worst illness. It's not a good way to avoid paying anything. It's a terrible way. You die. Why don't all the CEO's of every company just commit suicide to avoid- OH RIGHT death. If that's truly what you feel is going on keep it to yourself.
He's saying he may be lying about the illness, durrrr
why would anyone lie about a terminal illness? do you know what happens with terminal illnesses? YOU DIE. you can't really fake that. this thread is an embarrassment.
Yes I am aware what terminal illness means, thank you. He may be lying to get out of harms way, hoping people would just forget once enough time passes. Of course there are far better lies to tell in this sort of situation but it doesn't rule out the possibility.
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's death. It's not just an illness, it's arguably the worst illness. It's not a good way to avoid paying anything. It's a terrible way. You die. Why don't all the CEO's of every company just commit suicide to avoid- OH RIGHT death. If that's truly what you feel is going on keep it to yourself.
He's saying he may be lying about the illness, durrrr
why would anyone lie about a terminal illness? do you know what happens with terminal illnesses? YOU DIE. you can't really fake that. this thread is an embarrassment.
To avoid foreclosure and debt. My law firm deals with people claiming that a debtor passed away all the time, which turn out to be lies. But it takes months to uncover that it that buys them more time to do whatever it is they are doing. I have had to appear as a witness in cases were people were charged with fraud for doing it. Or lying about their children serving over seas and being killed on active duty. The woman who did that is serving 10 years.
People do shady shit when they owe money. From all reports this guy is not one of them and good luck to him and his family, but people do it all the time.
On March 17 2014 09:59 Arghmyliver wrote: You guys are all bastards. Whether it's true or not there is absolutely no excusable reason to be a douche to someone with a terminal illness. I hope to christ he doesn't read these comments. Think before you post for pity's sake. Thought this was a really cool team name and at least one of the players has come forward with an incredibly positive post about his time on the team. If there is any humanity left in the world let it be sent to this man who was paying for an SC2 team out of pocket in his last time on earth. You all should be horribly ashamed.
To those who posted positive things, thank you for your shred of decency towards your fellow man in this bleak fucking fanbase.
Peace and Love to all. <3 Argh
Its also a really good way to avoid having to pay your players.
"What you want me to pay you? But I have family to worry about? Who would provide for them when I am gone? You wouldn't take money from a dying man's family?"
Its cynical, but it wouldn't be the first time that a CEO used illness as an excuse not to pay his players.
It's death. It's not just an illness, it's arguably the worst illness. It's not a good way to avoid paying anything. It's a terrible way. You die. Why don't all the CEO's of every company just commit suicide to avoid- OH RIGHT death. If that's truly what you feel is going on keep it to yourself.
You are confused. People have LIED about illnesses before, including terminal ones, to not pay their players. That is why people are so cynical about it. This is not the first time this has happened and a team shut down because someone got "sick".
Its why we take it all with a grain of salt.
Yes, we all should be a bit skeptical, but some people in this thread are literally laughing at someone dying. It makes me cringe reading some of these posts. What if he actually does have a termial illness? Wouldn't you people feel disgusted with yourselves for saying those things? Why don't we all just reserve judgment until we find out more?
But I wonder what was the goal of the team? They did not make much content, streaming and did not participate in teamleagues or sent players overseas. Maybe they just want to support some players
One guy just asked why everyone is being so skeptical of someone who says they are dying and I explained that this has happened before. Then the comment came out that all the players have been paid, so it looks like everything is on the up and up. I didn't say he did anything, but was only explaining why people take it all with a grain of salt.
And some people are heartless jerks, but this is the internet...
On March 17 2014 11:45 SpunXtain20 wrote: Some really tactless and honestly embaressing posts here... Unless you have evidence otherwise, assume it is true and wish him the best. Just because another guy was an asshole doesn't mean this guy is. If he really is faking to get out of paying people, then yes that is horrible. But assume the best in him.
Best wishes and thanks for what you gave to the community.
Actually you usually assume things are false unless evidence shows them to be true, unless you know the person well or whatever, like a friend or family member. Given the HTOMario issue I believe everyone's skepticism is warranted. "Best wishes" won't do his heart much good anyways.
Lol what? If we are going by the standard of law, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around. Obviously people are getting paid. We honestly don't even know the full story about the whole HTOMario thing anyways just some post on reddit, so taking that as 100% fact is ridiculous anyway. This guy was literally paying these players out of pocket, and now he's dying. Have some fucking decency for once.
This is awful and I hope Pascal can come to peace with whatever he has left to do in life. If there's a chance to recover I hope that happens, but just don't have any regrets man. <3
i think it's unnecessary to come out with accusations (since it's perfectly possible that the illness thing is true), but at the same time i understand the mindset of people who feel confident it's a lie and think they're doing justice by calling out a liar
at the same time, the OP/people defending him should realize that there is a valid precedent for being suspicious, whether that fact is indeed the owner's fault or not. it's an overreaction to just say "oh, people are being heartless dicks on the internet again"
can't both sides just be a little more chill and reasonable?
To all people whom doesn't care about his illness... Go f*cking burn in hell,
second... if the CEO is truly sick, everyone should be gather up and show some kindness towards him. Not only a ceo or a sc2 player. Nobody except al the haters deserves a disease.
Also we all don't know if this is true. If its true... the last thing on your mind is paying your employees or what so ever. Friends and family comes first you stupid dumbf*cks.
Lets say this is true.. all the players should consider reject their pay and give to the ceo try to recover from it. If its not true... all the players should turn this guy into the biggest black sheep and get a perma ban on all tournaments.
And guys the players see this as their job... otherwise they would do something else. So support the players and the people are paying them.
The mods should teach the dumbf*cks some manners, health and life is a billions times more important than a game. and yes even Idra or Naniwa doesn't deserve cancer.. even how much you hate them.
On March 17 2014 11:45 SpunXtain20 wrote: Some really tactless and honestly embaressing posts here... Unless you have evidence otherwise, assume it is true and wish him the best. Just because another guy was an asshole doesn't mean this guy is. If he really is faking to get out of paying people, then yes that is horrible. But assume the best in him.
Best wishes and thanks for what you gave to the community.
Actually you usually assume things are false unless evidence shows them to be true, unless you know the person well or whatever, like a friend or family member. Given the HTOMario issue I believe everyone's skepticism is warranted. "Best wishes" won't do his heart much good anyways.
Lol what? If we are going by the standard of law, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around. Obviously people are getting paid. We honestly don't even know the full story about the whole HTOMario thing anyways just some post on reddit, so taking that as 100% fact is ridiculous anyway. This guy was literally paying these players out of pocket, and now he's dying. Have some fucking decency for once.
This is awful and I hope Pascal can come to peace with whatever he has left to do in life. If there's a chance to recover I hope that happens, but just don't have any regrets man. <3
This isn't law, it's some guy on the internet telling us he's dying. Why should I or anyone just believe he is? I'm not saying he isn't, I'm not taking the HTOMario thing as fact, and who actually knows if he was paying the players out of his pocket? Does anyone? When I said false until proven true I was talking generally about someone making a claim, that they should provide evidence to support the claim, which should apply here if this claim is to be 100% believable. Of course he won't provide evidence, and neither would I, but I wouldn't expect everyone to believe it in this sort of situation. So believe what you like, but people who are skeptical aren't being heartless.
On March 17 2014 13:06 ILOVEWAR wrote: To all people whom doesn't care about his illness... Go f*cking burn in hell,
second... if the CEO is truly sick, everyone should be gather up and show some kindness towards him. Not only a ceo or a sc2 player. Nobody except al the haters deserves a disease.
Also we all don't know if this is true. If its true... the last thing on your mind is paying your employees or what so ever. Friends and family comes first you stupid dumbf*cks.
Lets say this is true.. all the players should consider reject their pay and give to the ceo try to recover from it. If its not true... all the players should turn this guy into the biggest black sheep and get a perma ban on all tournaments.
And guys the players see this as their job... otherwise they would do something else. So support the players and the people are paying them.
The mods should teach the dumbf*cks some manners, health and life is a billions times more important than a game. and yes even Idra or Naniwa doesn't deserve cancer.. even how much you hate them.
I gather hell is a nasty place, isn't telling someone to burn in hell being a "hater"? lol
On March 17 2014 11:45 SpunXtain20 wrote: Some really tactless and honestly embaressing posts here... Unless you have evidence otherwise, assume it is true and wish him the best. Just because another guy was an asshole doesn't mean this guy is. If he really is faking to get out of paying people, then yes that is horrible. But assume the best in him.
Best wishes and thanks for what you gave to the community.
Actually you usually assume things are false unless evidence shows them to be true, unless you know the person well or whatever, like a friend or family member. Given the HTOMario issue I believe everyone's skepticism is warranted. "Best wishes" won't do his heart much good anyways.
Lol what? If we are going by the standard of law, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around. Obviously people are getting paid. We honestly don't even know the full story about the whole HTOMario thing anyways just some post on reddit, so taking that as 100% fact is ridiculous anyway. This guy was literally paying these players out of pocket, and now he's dying. Have some fucking decency for once.
This is awful and I hope Pascal can come to peace with whatever he has left to do in life. If there's a chance to recover I hope that happens, but just don't have any regrets man. <3
In the standard of law, yes, innocent until proven guilty. But this isn't a court room, and I'm sure he wasn't referring to a lawsuit. His example was in the realm of Science/logic. A claim must be supported with evidence until it can be given any merit. As such, that means that claims without evidence might as well be taken as being false. A true scientist is a master of skepticism. On one hand, you have the evidence of one person's voice, and on the other, you have the "convenient" timing of the illness as well as past incidences of a similar series of events that turned out to be a sham. The given evidence is insufficient to form a conclusion at this point, so you can't say that this is a lie, but you also have a decently strong reason to not assume it to be true. One can only wait.
On March 17 2014 11:45 SpunXtain20 wrote: Some really tactless and honestly embaressing posts here... Unless you have evidence otherwise, assume it is true and wish him the best. Just because another guy was an asshole doesn't mean this guy is. If he really is faking to get out of paying people, then yes that is horrible. But assume the best in him.
Best wishes and thanks for what you gave to the community.
Actually you usually assume things are false unless evidence shows them to be true, unless you know the person well or whatever, like a friend or family member. Given the HTOMario issue I believe everyone's skepticism is warranted. "Best wishes" won't do his heart much good anyways.
Lol what? If we are going by the standard of law, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around. Obviously people are getting paid. We honestly don't even know the full story about the whole HTOMario thing anyways just some post on reddit, so taking that as 100% fact is ridiculous anyway. This guy was literally paying these players out of pocket, and now he's dying. Have some fucking decency for once.
This is awful and I hope Pascal can come to peace with whatever he has left to do in life. If there's a chance to recover I hope that happens, but just don't have any regrets man. <3
In the standard of law, yes, innocent until proven guilty. But this isn't a court room, and I'm sure he wasn't referring to a lawsuit. His example was in the realm of Science/logic. A claim must be supported with evidence until it can be given any merit. As such, that means that claims without evidence might as well be taken as being false. A true scientist is a master of skepticism. On one hand, you have the evidence of one person's voice, and on the other, you have the "convenient" timing of the illness as well as past incidences of a similar series of events that turned out to be a sham. The given evidence is insufficient to form a conclusion at this point, so you can't say that this is a lie, but you also have a decently strong reason to not assume it to be true. One can only wait.
The conclusion you've made isn't actually completely true. Generally a theory is devised and then practitioners go about proving or disproving the hypothesis. This actually means that it's possible for a theory to be accepted, used and developed before the actual proof is confirmed. If the conclusions from an experiment don't match expectations then it's at that point that the theory is either adjusted or disregarded. The Higgs Boson experiment is an example of this.
What actually leads people down one direction (either approving or disproving) is the amount of information/investment (financial/political/rational/emotional) that provides a context in which said theory can become viable.
All you can actually surmise is that people don't know enough about the man with the illness to have an informed opinion on the whole. At this point would you rather be negative or positive? Either are valid until or if we ever know anything more about him, LYGF and the players relationship with him and how they are feeling.
I wish him, his family and the players all the best.
On March 17 2014 11:45 SpunXtain20 wrote: Some really tactless and honestly embaressing posts here... Unless you have evidence otherwise, assume it is true and wish him the best. Just because another guy was an asshole doesn't mean this guy is. If he really is faking to get out of paying people, then yes that is horrible. But assume the best in him.
Best wishes and thanks for what you gave to the community.
Actually you usually assume things are false unless evidence shows them to be true, unless you know the person well or whatever, like a friend or family member. Given the HTOMario issue I believe everyone's skepticism is warranted. "Best wishes" won't do his heart much good anyways.
Lol what? If we are going by the standard of law, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around. Obviously people are getting paid. We honestly don't even know the full story about the whole HTOMario thing anyways just some post on reddit, so taking that as 100% fact is ridiculous anyway. This guy was literally paying these players out of pocket, and now he's dying. Have some fucking decency for once.
This is awful and I hope Pascal can come to peace with whatever he has left to do in life. If there's a chance to recover I hope that happens, but just don't have any regrets man. <3
In the standard of law, yes, innocent until proven guilty. But this isn't a court room, and I'm sure he wasn't referring to a lawsuit. His example was in the realm of Science/logic. A claim must be supported with evidence until it can be given any merit. As such, that means that claims without evidence might as well be taken as being false. A true scientist is a master of skepticism. On one hand, you have the evidence of one person's voice, and on the other, you have the "convenient" timing of the illness as well as past incidences of a similar series of events that turned out to be a sham. The given evidence is insufficient to form a conclusion at this point, so you can't say that this is a lie, but you also have a decently strong reason to not assume it to be true. One can only wait.
The conclusion you've made isn't actually completely true. Generally a theory is devised and then practitioners go about proving or disproving the hypothesis. This actually means that it's possible for a theory to be accepted, used and developed before the actual proof is confirmed. If the conclusions from an experiment don't match expectations then it's at that point that the theory is either adjusted or disregarded. The Higgs Boson experiment is an example of this.
What actually leads people down one direction (either approving or disproving) is the amount of information/investment (financial/political/rational/emotional) that provides a context in which said theory can become viable.
All you can actually surmise is that people don't know enough about the man with the illness to have an informed opinion on the whole. At this point would you rather be negative or positive? Either are valid until or if we ever know anything more about him, LYGF and the players relationship with him and how they are feeling.
I wish him, his family and the players all the best.
Not everything is black and white, many of us are simply waiting for more information, and remaining skeptical until that information is provided.
was always skeptical about this team since the beginning. i'll reserve judgement until reddit does their usual investigation, the internet is good at ferreting out what's really going on.
It's disgusting for people to shit all over someone even if there's a chance of having a terminal illness. Wait for concrete proof that you're being lied to; if it exists, the internet will find it. t.t
Well Genius was going to begin his military service until he got signed to this team, so I guess he'll fall back on that original plan. Kind of disappointed we didn't get to see him rise again.
On March 17 2014 11:45 SpunXtain20 wrote: Some really tactless and honestly embaressing posts here... Unless you have evidence otherwise, assume it is true and wish him the best. Just because another guy was an asshole doesn't mean this guy is. If he really is faking to get out of paying people, then yes that is horrible. But assume the best in him.
Best wishes and thanks for what you gave to the community.
Actually you usually assume things are false unless evidence shows them to be true, unless you know the person well or whatever, like a friend or family member. Given the HTOMario issue I believe everyone's skepticism is warranted. "Best wishes" won't do his heart much good anyways.
Lol what? If we are going by the standard of law, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around. Obviously people are getting paid. We honestly don't even know the full story about the whole HTOMario thing anyways just some post on reddit, so taking that as 100% fact is ridiculous anyway. This guy was literally paying these players out of pocket, and now he's dying. Have some fucking decency for once.
This is awful and I hope Pascal can come to peace with whatever he has left to do in life. If there's a chance to recover I hope that happens, but just don't have any regrets man. <3
In the standard of law, yes, innocent until proven guilty. But this isn't a court room, and I'm sure he wasn't referring to a lawsuit. His example was in the realm of Science/logic. A claim must be supported with evidence until it can be given any merit. As such, that means that claims without evidence might as well be taken as being false. A true scientist is a master of skepticism. On one hand, you have the evidence of one person's voice, and on the other, you have the "convenient" timing of the illness as well as past incidences of a similar series of events that turned out to be a sham. The given evidence is insufficient to form a conclusion at this point, so you can't say that this is a lie, but you also have a decently strong reason to not assume it to be true. One can only wait.
The conclusion you've made isn't actually completely true. Generally a theory is devised and then practitioners go about proving or disproving the hypothesis. This actually means that it's possible for a theory to be accepted, used and developed before the actual proof is confirmed. If the conclusions from an experiment don't match expectations then it's at that point that the theory is either adjusted or disregarded. The Higgs Boson experiment is an example of this.
What actually leads people down one direction (either approving or disproving) is the amount of information/investment (financial/political/rational/emotional) that provides a context in which said theory can become viable.
All you can actually surmise is that people don't know enough about the man with the illness to have an informed opinion on the whole. At this point would you rather be negative or positive? Either are valid until or if we ever know anything more about him, LYGF and the players relationship with him and how they are feeling.
I wish him, his family and the players all the best.
Reading comprehension fail or something? I concluded that their wasn't enough information to know either way.... the same conclusion you came to in your post.... how is that not completely true again? A scientific cannot be a theory without a substantial amount of evidence. Until then, it is simply a hypothesis. It is through experiments and data collection that sufficient evidence can be gathered to raise the status of a hypothesis to a theory. In the case of the Higgs boson, all existing evidence pointed to their being such a particle, but they were unable to carry out tests to confirm this until recently. If the results of the LHC experiments had revealed contrasting information, they would have had to rewrite modern physics. Such is the nature of science. What is believed must be backed up by evidence. When conflicting evidence emerges from experiments that are repeatable and legitimate, beliefs must be changed.
On March 17 2014 13:46 dAPhREAk wrote: such a toxic community, lol.
sad isn't it?
I'm sorry but there is nothing toxic or sad about remaining skeptical and wishing the guy for the best in the meantime. Nobody is going crazy in this thread except those making posts like yours.
Just going to put this out here. This is taken from the reddit thread, and is written by a player "on" (?) LYGF called Lucoda
As a player for the team, I want to give my opinion on every thing from my point of view. For the record, I am Peter Healy, or Lucoda. The time I spent on LYGF was definitely the most enjoyable since I started playing SC2. Pascal and James were amazing managers in every respect. They really cared about us individually and wanted the best for all of us. It was really unfortunate how everything panned out with the various dramas about us but, even without holding the LYGF name now, I still stand by fully behind Pascal in what happened. All of the lads in the team are all real solid players and you will definitely be hearing their names in the future. I hope ye all think of Pascal in your prayers or anything during the next few nights, he is very ill right now and deserves the support he can get. To the fans that we had, thank you for supporting us through thick and thin. I'm really sorry for all the bad things that have happened. It's your support that helped us all throughout it. If anyone wants to ask some questions I will answer to the best of my ability.
I'm sorry if this has already been posted, but it is worth noting.
On March 17 2014 11:45 SpunXtain20 wrote: Some really tactless and honestly embaressing posts here... Unless you have evidence otherwise, assume it is true and wish him the best. Just because another guy was an asshole doesn't mean this guy is. If he really is faking to get out of paying people, then yes that is horrible. But assume the best in him.
Best wishes and thanks for what you gave to the community.
Actually you usually assume things are false unless evidence shows them to be true, unless you know the person well or whatever, like a friend or family member. Given the HTOMario issue I believe everyone's skepticism is warranted. "Best wishes" won't do his heart much good anyways.
Lol what? If we are going by the standard of law, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around. Obviously people are getting paid. We honestly don't even know the full story about the whole HTOMario thing anyways just some post on reddit, so taking that as 100% fact is ridiculous anyway. This guy was literally paying these players out of pocket, and now he's dying. Have some fucking decency for once.
This is awful and I hope Pascal can come to peace with whatever he has left to do in life. If there's a chance to recover I hope that happens, but just don't have any regrets man. <3
In the standard of law, yes, innocent until proven guilty. But this isn't a court room, and I'm sure he wasn't referring to a lawsuit. His example was in the realm of Science/logic. A claim must be supported with evidence until it can be given any merit. As such, that means that claims without evidence might as well be taken as being false. A true scientist is a master of skepticism. On one hand, you have the evidence of one person's voice, and on the other, you have the "convenient" timing of the illness as well as past incidences of a similar series of events that turned out to be a sham. The given evidence is insufficient to form a conclusion at this point, so you can't say that this is a lie, but you also have a decently strong reason to not assume it to be true. One can only wait.
But it's not a defensio either. We have no possible way of scientifically assessing the truth of the information we have here. But it's not about people suspecting it might be a hoax. It's about people making jokes about someone who might be dying and justifying it by saying it might be wrong. Show me one sensible scientist that makes fun about a theory he can't disprove because 'it might not be true'.
I think I'm just going to assume that the entire thing (creation of the team, recruitment of random Koreans and practically everyone who was willing to join, promises of big sponsor announcements, not sending Korean players to any tournaments, random drama, spontaneous disbandment due to sudden unspecified serious illness) was planned all along as a parody of certain other team.
On March 17 2014 19:44 BarneyNapalm wrote: Just going to put this out here. This is taken from the reddit thread, and is written by a player "on" (?) LYGF called Lucoda
As a player for the team, I want to give my opinion on every thing from my point of view. For the record, I am Peter Healy, or Lucoda. The time I spent on LYGF was definitely the most enjoyable since I started playing SC2. Pascal and James were amazing managers in every respect. They really cared about us individually and wanted the best for all of us. It was really unfortunate how everything panned out with the various dramas about us but, even without holding the LYGF name now, I still stand by fully behind Pascal in what happened. All of the lads in the team are all real solid players and you will definitely be hearing their names in the future. I hope ye all think of Pascal in your prayers or anything during the next few nights, he is very ill right now and deserves the support he can get. To the fans that we had, thank you for supporting us through thick and thin. I'm really sorry for all the bad things that have happened. It's your support that helped us all throughout it. If anyone wants to ask some questions I will answer to the best of my ability.
I'm sorry if this has already been posted, but it is worth noting.
If what he says is true, then I feel really sorry for how this thread turned out. I blame Simon more than anyone when it comes to how cynical the community has become. Best of health to you, Pascal.
Seems like this team is getting a lot of shit for a team which hasn't done anything wrong yet. Innocent until proven guilty I say. I just hope the players saw this coming.
Not sure if my comment got buried, but I am willing to answer some questions on how everything turned out. I am Lucoda, a player for LYGF. Feel free to ask away!
I'm kind of disgusted at the number of "lol what a surprise" posts here. Until you're certain that the dude isn't really dying it's kind of disrespectful. More than disrespectful it's sad and pathetic.
On March 17 2014 22:11 LucoxP wrote: Not sure if my comment got buried, but I am willing to answer some questions on how everything turned out. I am Lucoda, a player for LYGF. Feel free to ask away!
@LucoxP: why was there so very little "marketing" done by the team. At the beginning there were a few articles on TL, some gossip about a secret Investor and plenty of Korean pickups but after that hardly anything was happening. It looked like there was no concrete plan about how the team is going to make it.
On March 17 2014 09:02 LYGF wrote: I asked Pascal if he had a bucket list or anything of the sort, and he told me "i just want to spend time with my fiancee." He really does love his girlfriend.
I wonder how someone can take this announcement seriously tbh. Is the guy dying or is he making jokes on his team name?
On March 17 2014 09:02 LYGF wrote: I asked Pascal if he had a bucket list or anything of the sort, and he told me "i just want to spend time with my fiancee." He really does love his girlfriend.
I wonder how someone can take this announcement seriously tbh. Is the guy dying or is he making jokes on his team name?
Saying you want to spend time with your fiancee seems like a fairly typical answer from someone in those circumstances, not entirely sure he is just making jokes on his team name...
I have worked with Pascal and James before both i found to be fair and up standing people. This is rather bad news for Pascal. Am sure he will do everything to take care of the people in LYGF. I hope he can settle everything in his life before his condition gets worst.
On March 17 2014 22:11 LucoxP wrote: Not sure if my comment got buried, but I am willing to answer some questions on how everything turned out. I am Lucoda, a player for LYGF. Feel free to ask away!
@LucoxP: why was there so very little "marketing" done by the team. At the beginning there were a few articles on TL, some gossip about a secret Investor and plenty of Korean pickups but after that hardly anything was happening. It looked like there was no concrete plan about how the team is going to make it.
It was one of the things I was always saying we should do more. Things like a short video of Genius saying he loves his Girlfriend or something similar would have been really nice. However, due to the circumstances that we were accused of, it was hard to do anything to get people on our side other than show solid results in tournaments etc. It's unfortunate that we had to go down this way.
The main plan was to get into pro team leagues. We wanted to show the community that we weren't fucking around. A team house in Cologne was in the works too which would have been really nice.
Is it really weird though for the community to not know how a specific team is going to make it? Take a look professional teams. They don't tell everyone when they start out exactly how they are going to "make it". They show it through solid tournament and clan war results. Unfortunately, we didn't have oppurtunities fast enough to show you guys what we were made of.
Ok honestly you guys are completely fucking disgusting. This man is dying and all you guys want to do is stir up a shit storm about it and make fun of their team name and talk about how nobody would have ever taken them seriously anyway and its not a surprise that the team is disbanding etc.
And then theres the assholes talking about how skeptical they are that the man is actually dying and how he's probably just trying to dodge paying his players.
And nobody is getting modded for it whatsoever.
So, I think I'm done here. That's enough TeamLiquid.net for me. You people are just bad people. There's no defending you. You're terrible awful people.
Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
I am also a former player for Love Your Girlfriend, I wish that this wasn't serious and this was another person just trolling but as of now this is literally deadly serious. I know Pascal will be fine, who else would play 2v2 with me and scream at me for doing stupid mistakes you know? :')
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
I'm curious. What does a CEO's illness have to do with the death of a company?
Can't they, you know... Continue with a new CEO like a regular company?
I don't see why one guy gets sick and an entire team is fucked. I suppose this is what happens when people run a company with passion instead of using their heads. No critical illness or life insurance for the CEO, no business succession plan in the event of a catastrophe. It's really sad, and people should take it as a lesson, either not to join a smaller team, or not to bother starting one up if your players are going to be hung out to dry the day you get too sick / old to continue.
I'm really sorry for all the players affected by this. It shouldn't happen, but these are the dangers of small foreign teams.
On March 17 2014 13:46 dAPhREAk wrote: such a toxic community, lol.
sad isn't it?
I'm sorry but there is nothing toxic or sad about remaining skeptical and wishing the guy for the best in the meantime. Nobody is going crazy in this thread except those making posts like yours.
On March 18 2014 01:56 dUTtrOACh wrote: I'm curious. What does a CEO's illness have to do with the death of a company?
Can't they, you know... Continue with a new CEO like a regular company?
I don't see why one guy gets sick and an entire team is fucked. I suppose this is what happens when people run a company with passion instead of using their heads. No critical illness or life insurance for the CEO, no business succession plan in the event of a catastrophe. It's really sad, and people should take it as a lesson, either not to join a smaller team, or not to bother starting one up if your players are going to be hung out to dry the day you get too sick / old to continue.
I'm really sorry for all the players affected by this. It shouldn't happen, but these are the dangers of small foreign teams.
Probably because the CEO was paying out of his own pocket.
On March 18 2014 01:56 dUTtrOACh wrote: I'm curious. What does a CEO's illness have to do with the death of a company?
Can't they, you know... Continue with a new CEO like a regular company?
I don't see why one guy gets sick and an entire team is fucked. I suppose this is what happens when people run a company with passion instead of using their heads. No critical illness or life insurance for the CEO, no business succession plan in the event of a catastrophe. It's really sad, and people should take it as a lesson, either not to join a smaller team, or not to bother starting one up if your players are going to be hung out to dry the day you get too sick / old to continue.
I'm really sorry for all the players affected by this. It shouldn't happen, but these are the dangers of small foreign teams.
Probably because the CEO was paying out of his own pocket.
Not much of a business plan. They were operational for a year; a year of out-of-pocket payroll is completely ludicrous for any company. They should have disbanded sooner.
On March 18 2014 00:45 MichaelDonovan wrote: Ok honestly you guys are completely fucking disgusting. This man is dying and all you guys want to do is stir up a shit storm about it and make fun of their team name and talk about how nobody would have ever taken them seriously anyway and its not a surprise that the team is disbanding etc.
And then theres the assholes talking about how skeptical they are that the man is actually dying and how he's probably just trying to dodge paying his players.
And nobody is getting modded for it whatsoever.
So, I think I'm done here. That's enough TeamLiquid.net for me. You people are just bad people. There's no defending you. You're terrible awful people.
Goodbye.
I don't think you can blame people for being skeptical. I'd like to see a doctor's note myself, but then again that could be faked too. No one is attacking him, if what he says is true. What if it turns out he's lying, then aren't you a terrible person for supporting a liar like that?
I don't think you can blame people for being skeptical. I'd like to see a doctor's note myself, but then again that could be faked too. No one is attacking him, if what he says is true. What if it turns out he's lying, then aren't you a terrible person for supporting a liar like that?
Wouldn't make you a terrible person unless you knew he was lying and you supported him anyways. Supporting him and not knowing he's lying if he was is at MOST naive and compassionate.
On March 17 2014 09:11 Boucot wrote: All my thoughts go to Pascal Boudreault
On March 17 2014 23:12 deth2munkies wrote: Ach, Hans, run! It's the LYGF.
These two are the best of the thread, hands down.
To all the people blasting the skeptics: people lie about terminal illness on the internet allll the timmmme. Sometimes its just because they want sympathy and attention, other times it's because they are scamming (donations for "treatment", help me fund my dream wedding before I die etc.). Plansix also mentioned the folks who do it just to buy a little time to skip town. But the reality is, this is hardly new ground. It should not shock anyone if he turns out to be a liar, and especially given the business with quantic, it should really not be all that surprising that so many folks are questioning this.
Its unfortunate that this is the age we live in, but there you go.
If dude really is terminally ill then I hope he is able to go out with as much relative comfort and dignity he can muster.
If dude is a liar, he can eat a bowl of unwashed dicks.
On March 17 2014 23:12 deth2munkies wrote: Ach, Hans, run! It's the LYGF.
These two are the best of the thread, hands down.
To all the people blasting the skeptics: people lie about terminal illness on the internet allll the timmmme. Sometimes its just because they want sympathy and attention, other times it's because they are scamming (donations for "treatment", help me fund my dream wedding before I die etc.). Plansix also mentioned the folks who do it just to buy a little time to skip town. But the reality is, this is hardly new ground. It should not shock anyone if he turns out to be a liar, and especially given the business with quantic, it should really not be all that surprising that so many folks are questioning this.
Its unfortunate that this is the age we live in, but there you go.
Questioning it is one thing though. Making fun of him is quite another, because in one case it doesn't gain you anything, really, and in the other you've just made fun of someone because he's going to die.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
On March 17 2014 09:06 EJK wrote: do you gaurantee that all of the former players of LYGF have been paid in full?
I'm just the writer, but i was told by the CEO that the players will be paid for this month, and then their contracts run out.
So they signed for a year(?) and are getting paid for a month?
If their contracts run out after that month, they can hardly have signed for any longer. Duh.
No, I think what the "writer" meant to say is they've been compensated up to this month, and their contracts are now expired by virtue of company closure.
On March 17 2014 13:46 dAPhREAk wrote: such a toxic community, lol.
sad isn't it?
I'm sorry but there is nothing toxic or sad about remaining skeptical and wishing the guy for the best in the meantime. Nobody is going crazy in this thread except those making posts like yours.
except most people arent doing that.
"Most" people are complaining about the very few people who were assholes about it. Like seriously maybe 2 or 3 people were rude with their "Saw it coming" posts but it's hardly "shitting all over the thread". These are the sort of people who don't bother to read why the team disbanded at all, and they're hardly worth getting upset over.
I get so frustrated with the internet. On one hand we're all about supporting AHQ Promise, on the other we have a guy who has no choice possibly dying and he and the team he tried to run are getting shit on when at worst I can see some management issues, and nothing really all that serious, that took place under his leadership.
On one hand we're all about paying all the medical bills for a guy who tried to kill himself. On the other we're all about taking a shit on the reputation of someone who tried to provide a living to gamers what we as a community have said to be fans of for years.
Where is the consistency? It's like team owners and managers aren't just as important as the players. Like the players can do no wrong (how the fuck many fans does Naniwa still have, cmon). But as soon as it's a person with passion who wants to do something and realizes they can't, they're all of a sudden satan.
I simply don't understand where we're coming from now. I don't get it.
On March 18 2014 00:45 MichaelDonovan wrote: Ok honestly you guys are completely fucking disgusting. This man is dying and all you guys want to do is stir up a shit storm about it and make fun of their team name and talk about how nobody would have ever taken them seriously anyway and its not a surprise that the team is disbanding etc.
And then theres the assholes talking about how skeptical they are that the man is actually dying and how he's probably just trying to dodge paying his players.
And nobody is getting modded for it whatsoever.
So, I think I'm done here. That's enough TeamLiquid.net for me. You people are just bad people. There's no defending you. You're terrible awful people.
Goodbye.
I don't think you can blame people for being skeptical. I'd like to see a doctor's note myself, but then again that could be faked too. No one is attacking him, if what he says is true. What if it turns out he's lying, then aren't you a terrible person for supporting a liar like that?
Assuming that somebody is a good person and assuming that they are telling the truth doesn't make me a bad person regardless of whether they are or not. You're a complete retard for suggesting that.
On March 18 2014 03:32 Noobity wrote: I get so frustrated with the internet. On one hand we're all about supporting AHQ Promise, on the other we have a guy who has no choice possibly dying and he and the team he tried to run are getting shit on when at worst I can see some management issues, and nothing really all that serious, that took place under his leadership.
On one hand we're all about paying all the medical bills for a guy who tried to kill himself. On the other we're all about taking a shit on the reputation of someone who tried to provide a living to gamers what we as a community have said to be fans of for years.
Where is the consistency? It's like team owners and managers aren't just as important as the players. Like the players can do no wrong (how the fuck many fans does Naniwa still have, cmon). But as soon as it's a person with passion who wants to do something and realizes they can't, they're all of a sudden satan.
I simply don't understand where we're coming from now. I don't get it.
I 100% agree with this. It's so shitty that constantly everyone just automatically assumes that the player must be in the wrong. No one actually gives a crap about the managers. If a player says something and doesn't show evidence, they will agree with him for some weird reason. That has to change. Sure in some cases the managers actually are fucking over the players, but that's not true for all of the cases.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
On March 18 2014 01:56 dUTtrOACh wrote: I'm curious. What does a CEO's illness have to do with the death of a company?
Can't they, you know... Continue with a new CEO like a regular company?
I don't see why one guy gets sick and an entire team is fucked. I suppose this is what happens when people run a company with passion instead of using their heads. No critical illness or life insurance for the CEO, no business succession plan in the event of a catastrophe. It's really sad, and people should take it as a lesson, either not to join a smaller team, or not to bother starting one up if your players are going to be hung out to dry the day you get too sick / old to continue.
I'm really sorry for all the players affected by this. It shouldn't happen, but these are the dangers of small foreign teams.
I disagree. These smaller teams provide opportunities for players who might otherwise retire or not make any money. The people that join them should know what they're getting into. The industry is too small for the kind of regulation you're looking for. A lot of teams start with out of pocket funding. I'd rather have those teams still exist.
On March 18 2014 00:45 MichaelDonovan wrote: Ok honestly you guys are completely fucking disgusting. This man is dying and all you guys want to do is stir up a shit storm about it and make fun of their team name and talk about how nobody would have ever taken them seriously anyway and its not a surprise that the team is disbanding etc.
And then theres the assholes talking about how skeptical they are that the man is actually dying and how he's probably just trying to dodge paying his players.
And nobody is getting modded for it whatsoever.
So, I think I'm done here. That's enough TeamLiquid.net for me. You people are just bad people. There's no defending you. You're terrible awful people.
Goodbye.
Lel it's the Internet, grow a pair. Do I think some people are being rude, yeah, but I'm not going to rage quit teamliquid/the Internet over it.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Can you quote me making fun of fatally ill people ? You can't, because I didn't do that. I said I was skeptical, which seems to be something you don't like, I'm okay with it. I've not made killer jokes, sadly, because I'm really not that funny. But you stating "killer jokes" and the OP writing about a "heavy heart" when speaking about LYGF's manager's heart condition have definitely been more humorous and playful.
People get sick and die. It sucks. I don't like it. I hope, if this is true, that the manager of LYGF gets better and heal. But until then you can't take my ability out to speak for myself and give my opinion. Don't like it ? Move on. No need to throw a fit at me.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
On March 18 2014 00:45 MichaelDonovan wrote: Ok honestly you guys are completely fucking disgusting. This man is dying and all you guys want to do is stir up a shit storm about it and make fun of their team name and talk about how nobody would have ever taken them seriously anyway and its not a surprise that the team is disbanding etc.
And then theres the assholes talking about how skeptical they are that the man is actually dying and how he's probably just trying to dodge paying his players.
And nobody is getting modded for it whatsoever.
So, I think I'm done here. That's enough TeamLiquid.net for me. You people are just bad people. There's no defending you. You're terrible awful people.
Goodbye.
Lel it's the Internet, grow a pair. Do I think some people are being rude, yeah, but I'm not going to rage quit teamliquid/the Internet over it.
What does it being the internet have anything to do with it? People don't stop being human beings when they are on the internet. "Grow a pair" is an expression which says that I lack courage or strength of will. So I don't think grow a pair actually means anything here.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
It's not a question of immediate belief. You assume the best in people. That's what good people do. If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you are a bad person. You don't have to be devoted to your belief, but you should give people the benefit of the doubt despite your disbelief. It's called being polite.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
It's called being polite.
Lol, this coming from you who hasn't been polite at all in this thread, throwing out the f bombs, calling people retards, morons, etc. You seem very angry. You should calm down. The way you treat people in this thread, I don't think an outside observer would classify you as a good person, but me being the good person that I am, will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume there might be some good in you yet! It's called being polite!
What an awkward press release. I can understand some of this outrage over the skepticism of the post, but the author/LYGF do themselves no favors with such a weird post. The release should have been posted on their own website and linked to there, but there's nothing. The use of the collective pronouns in the original post and the use of the singular pronoun in the edit does feel sketchy. Either the author is speaking on behalf of the organization or he's not, he should choose one and stick with it.
I tend to think he's speaking for himself with very little knowledge of the actual situation because the original post is a bunch of fluff statements ("With a tear in our eye and a heavy heart", "While we realize that not everything...", "worked with rising stars...") that have nothing to do with a company closing due to the CEO having health problems. Furthermore, if a company is willing to refer to their CEO as such, there should exist some company structure to warrant that title (the title is meaningless without any employees to distinguish yourself from). So if there is some company type structure, then it would seem to be in the best interest of all the people involved in this team to explore scenarios to carry on their brand even if they have to drop most/all of their professional roster. They started as a "semi-professional gaming society" (liquipedia), so they could conceivably pursue that goal. That they do not, and that there is no mention of any contingency plans (for instance, the CEO was aware of the possibility of his condition worsening) reeks of something else going on.
But back to the post, it really is weird. It starts off with a very emotional reason, but then goes off into the team's history with the community and then name-drops their players. Take out the parts where the CEO is suffering from a terminal heart illness, and the post becomes a eulogy for a discontinued team. A half-hearted eulogy of a team is a peculiar way to remember a person's legacy. The author's note is even worse; using an emotional appeal and tying it in with the team's name is so tacky and tasteless. If you're an acute observer, the whole post makes itself incredibly hard to believe in. Like, why is the only quote the author has of the CEO is about a "bucket list", but no closing remarks on what a great experience the team was, how he felt his legacy will be remembered in the SC2 community, etc?
Examining the OP's previous posts and this release, there is a lot to be skeptical about. If you read the post and get outraged at the skepticism, I think you should try looking at what you're putting so much stock in. It is essentially: "LYGF CEO has increased complications in terminal heart illness, disbands team". The first part is unremarkable, either he does or he doesn't, we can't verify that. The second part is more interesting because it involves player contracts. The wording seems ambiguous on whether the contracts expire at the end of this month (which would mean a 3 month contract for Tassadar and Genius) or the contracts are being terminated upon dissolution of the company. Since the wording puts emphasis that they will be paid through the month, and two 3 month contracts seem unlikely, I would say that the contracts are being unilaterally terminated. If that's the case, then there is financial incentive in dissolving the company. That said, financial incentive doesn't make him a bad person, but I don't see any problem in calling that part out for what it is because it could put the players in a very tight spot with short notice.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
It's not a question of immediate belief. You assume the best in people. That's what good people do. If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you are a bad person. You don't have to be devoted to your belief, but you should give people the benefit of the doubt despite your disbelief. It's called being polite.
If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you're someone mature enough to believe human's nature can be bad. It means you're a grown up and understand that people fuck up, and that Internet is a big fat book of lies and deceit. In my world, I'm an adult using my brain. In your world I'm a bad person. I have not judged anyone except through the proofs and facts that were given to me, and yet you judge me for thinking differently. It's called being prejudiced.
On March 18 2014 06:02 kyunghwan wrote: What an awkward press release. I can understand some of this outrage over the skepticism of the post, but the author/LYGF do themselves no favors with such a weird post. The release should have been posted on their own website and linked to there, but there's nothing. The use of the collective pronouns in the original post and the use of the singular pronoun in the edit does feel sketchy. Either the author is speaking on behalf of the organization or he's not, he should choose one and stick with it.
I tend to think he's speaking for himself with very little knowledge of the actual situation because the original post is a bunch of fluff statements ("With a tear in our eye and a heavy heart", "While we realize that not everything...", "worked with rising stars...") that have nothing to do with a company closing due to the CEO having health problems. Furthermore, if a company is willing to refer to their CEO as such, there should exist some company structure to warrant that title (the title is meaningless without any employees to distinguish yourself from). So if there is some company type structure, then it would seem to be in the best interest of all the people involved in this team to explore scenarios to carry on their brand even if they have to drop most/all of their professional roster. They started as a "semi-professional gaming society" (liquipedia), so they could conceivably pursue that goal. That they do not, and that there is no mention of any contingency plans (for instance, the CEO was aware of the possibility of his condition worsening) reeks of something else going on.
But back to the post, it really is weird. It starts off with a very emotional reason, but then goes off into the team's history with the community and then name-drops their players. Take out the parts where the CEO is suffering from a terminal heart illness, and the post becomes a eulogy for a discontinued team. A half-hearted eulogy of a team is a peculiar way to remember a person's legacy. The author's note is even worse; using an emotional appeal and tying it in with the team's name is so tacky and tasteless. If you're an acute observer, the whole post makes itself incredibly hard to believe in. Like, why is the only quote the author has of the CEO is about a "bucket list", but no closing remarks on what a great experience the team was, how he felt his legacy will be remembered in the SC2 community, etc?
Examining the OP's previous posts and this release, there is a lot to be skeptical about. If you read the post and get outraged at the skepticism, I think you should try looking at what you're putting so much stock in. It is essentially: "LYGF CEO has increased complications in terminal heart illness, disbands team". The first part is unremarkable, either he does or he doesn't, we can't verify that. The second part is more interesting because it involves player contracts. The wording seems ambiguous on whether the contracts expire at the end of this month (which would mean a 3 month contract for Tassadar and Genius) or the contracts are being terminated upon dissolution of the company. Since the wording puts emphasis that they will be paid through the month, and two 3 month contracts seem unlikely, I would say that the contracts are being unilaterally terminated. If that's the case, then there is financial incentive in dissolving the company. That said, financial incentive doesn't make him a bad person, but I don't see any problem in calling that part out for what it is because it could put the players in a very tight spot with short notice.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
A team that pops up out of nowhere, with no idea where they get their money from, yet manages to acquire all these players, yet turns out isn't paying at least one of its players, and then all of a sudden disbands. This story has repeated itself repeatedly, so why wouldn't people be skeptical? Even the OP is written in a strange manner that just feels "off", as has been pointed out. A moron would be someone who blindly believes it without exercising critical thinking and reading comprehension. No one is saying its ok to laugh at people who have terminal illness. What people are saying is, this thing seems sketch.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
I'll quote a post I made in another LYGF when HTOMario announced his retirement
Lol....You think it's just Quantic? This thread is so painfully familiar that it's hilarious to me. It's happened with so many other "teams" that end up being scams. No legitimate team just pops up with no recognition/support behind it.
It's another scam. Wake up SC2 community. People need to contact Genius and Tassadar and tell them to stay away from these people.
Then contact them and tell them what you think you know, otherwise you're not helping anyone out, you're just running a teams name through the mud for no reason. No player from LYGF has come forward saying they weren't paid and it's ridiculous of you to just assume otherwise....
Here is a skype conversation between HTOMario and Pascal Anton (LYGF owner) [2/1/2014 10:42:07 AM] Pascal Anton: yeah [2/1/2014 10:42:12 AM] HTOMario: any news on sponsor? [2/1/2014 10:42:46 AM] HTOMario: it's february o.o [2/1/2014 10:44:27 AM] Pascal Anton: seems like they are screwing us over [2/1/2014 10:44:34 AM] HTOMario: yeah [2/1/2014 10:45:47 AM] HTOMario: but my salary wasn't a problem before we had them? [2/1/2014 10:46:35 AM] Pascal Anton: i will send you a good amount on monday [2/1/2014 10:46:44 AM] HTOMario: ok ty
Mario later goes on to say in the thread that Pascal kept giving him the run-around and coming up with excuses and that he was never actually paid.
NAUG was the new sponsor Pascal was referring too. After a bit of being late I discovered through pascal that NAUG was either stalling or delaying payments in the sponsorship they promised. - HTOMario
That's 1 player
I had a very similar experience when I was on LYGF..i'm glad I left when I did. I had multiple late payments AND even CANCELLED payments. I'm sorry this happened to you Mario hopefully it doesn't happen to anyone else. - LYGFBails In reply to Bails - Ah why didn't you say anything?! I'm sorry man I had no idea any of this was going on until it hit me as well. I thought everything was good and even replaced some gear which they never reimbursed me for back in early december - HTOMario
That's 2
Hi guys, this is SeOuLStEaL and I was on LYGF as well. When I woke up this morning, I must say that I didn't expect to hear that HTOMario had left LYGF... But when I asked Mario himself, I was shocked that not only did he leave the team, but that some of the rumors were true about some of the members not receiving payment. I thought that maybe the financial "issues" were resolved but it appears I was mistaken. When I saw that Mario had left LYGF, it struck me that maybe it was my time to leave too. - LYGFSeOuLStEaL
I was right from day 1. Check my post history LYGF was sketchy Day one yet LYGF down voted me and tried to make themselves look legit. LYGF should be ashamed. At least we caught scam now before it turned ink a hyun situation. Anton pascal has always been sketchy, from past teams. I hope this is a lesson to community to investigate and not be blinded. I wish Mario the best. - fxo_dragonflyss
If this is true, then that would make 4! And I'm sure there are others who have received late payments or not been paid at all that just haven't said anything yet. Honestly, if this isn't enough evidence, then you're blind.
Multiple players come forward about not receiving payments on time or not receiving them at all, and then the "CEO" contracts a terminal heart disease and the team disbands? I don't know how anyone could honestly believe this...
On March 18 2014 06:02 kyunghwan wrote: What an awkward press release. I can understand some of this outrage over the skepticism of the post, but the author/LYGF do themselves no favors with such a weird post. The release should have been posted on their own website and linked to there, but there's nothing. The use of the collective pronouns in the original post and the use of the singular pronoun in the edit does feel sketchy. Either the author is speaking on behalf of the organization or he's not, he should choose one and stick with it.
I tend to think he's speaking for himself with very little knowledge of the actual situation because the original post is a bunch of fluff statements ("With a tear in our eye and a heavy heart", "While we realize that not everything...", "worked with rising stars...") that have nothing to do with a company closing due to the CEO having health problems. Furthermore, if a company is willing to refer to their CEO as such, there should exist some company structure to warrant that title (the title is meaningless without any employees to distinguish yourself from). So if there is some company type structure, then it would seem to be in the best interest of all the people involved in this team to explore scenarios to carry on their brand even if they have to drop most/all of their professional roster. They started as a "semi-professional gaming society" (liquipedia), so they could conceivably pursue that goal. That they do not, and that there is no mention of any contingency plans (for instance, the CEO was aware of the possibility of his condition worsening) reeks of something else going on.
But back to the post, it really is weird. It starts off with a very emotional reason, but then goes off into the team's history with the community and then name-drops their players. Take out the parts where the CEO is suffering from a terminal heart illness, and the post becomes a eulogy for a discontinued team. A half-hearted eulogy of a team is a peculiar way to remember a person's legacy. The author's note is even worse; using an emotional appeal and tying it in with the team's name is so tacky and tasteless. If you're an acute observer, the whole post makes itself incredibly hard to believe in. Like, why is the only quote the author has of the CEO is about a "bucket list", but no closing remarks on what a great experience the team was, how he felt his legacy will be remembered in the SC2 community, etc?
Examining the OP's previous posts and this release, there is a lot to be skeptical about. If you read the post and get outraged at the skepticism, I think you should try looking at what you're putting so much stock in. It is essentially: "LYGF CEO has increased complications in terminal heart illness, disbands team". The first part is unremarkable, either he does or he doesn't, we can't verify that. The second part is more interesting because it involves player contracts. The wording seems ambiguous on whether the contracts expire at the end of this month (which would mean a 3 month contract for Tassadar and Genius) or the contracts are being terminated upon dissolution of the company. Since the wording puts emphasis that they will be paid through the month, and two 3 month contracts seem unlikely, I would say that the contracts are being unilaterally terminated. If that's the case, then there is financial incentive in dissolving the company. That said, financial incentive doesn't make him a bad person, but I don't see any problem in calling that part out for what it is because it could put the players in a very tight spot with short notice.
I think i could expand on this. I'm the writer, and While the statement was written for the entire team as a whole, the "other notes" section and replies to comments were made by myself. I'm the writer, and i wasn't aware of how much the players were being paid, or anything like that. I personally thought the "bucket list" part was very touching and wanted to include that. As for how i worded the player contracts, thats literally verbatim what he told me when i asked if the players we getting paid. As for why we didn't continue the team, i don't have all the details (he only talked to me about things if they concerned stories i was writing) but this was Pascals dream, and his team at heart. it would feel wrong to continue it without him. I hope i can answer any other questions you have, but again, i was just the writer. i wasn't included in, nor did i ask to be included in, the financials of the team. I hope this adds some clarity.
ALSO: this wasn't posted on the website because only Pascal can post things to the website, and he's not really in a good condition to be doing a whole lot right now.
Lol good stuff penguinator I didn't even know it was that bad, as I had only read the first few posts of that mario thread. But I'm not surprised other players came forward and confirmed the shadiness. This only increases my skepticism further.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
It's called being polite.
Lol, this coming from you who hasn't been polite at all in this thread, throwing out the f bombs, calling people retards, morons, etc. You seem very angry. You should calm down. The way you treat people in this thread, I don't think an outside observer would classify you as a good person, but me being the good person that I am, will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume there might be some good in you yet! It's called being polite!
Considering the way they are acting, I don't feel I owe them any polite treatment. They gave up that right when they refused to honor it in others. I'm pretty calm though in real life right now. I mean, you have to look past the screen and think about what I probably actually look like. My face isn't read and I don't have smoke coming out of my ears. I'm just saying what needs to be said.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
It's not a question of immediate belief. You assume the best in people. That's what good people do. If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you are a bad person. You don't have to be devoted to your belief, but you should give people the benefit of the doubt despite your disbelief. It's called being polite.
If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you're someone mature enough to believe human's nature can be bad. It means you're a grown up and understand that people fuck up, and that Internet is a big fat book of lies and deceit. In my world, I'm an adult using my brain. In your world I'm a bad person. I have not judged anyone except through the proofs and facts that were given to me, and yet you judge me for thinking differently. It's called being prejudiced.
Thinking that human nature can be bad is immature, or at the very least I would say that it shows a lack of thought on the subject. The whole concept of moral responsibility and the idea of duty comes from the fact that human nature has a capacity for goodness.
Rationality is one of the defining aspects of human beings which separates us from other creatures. The rational aspect of our soul guides us toward the good. If this is not true, then why is it that rationality tells us to think poorly of those who behave badly? Clearly it is because morality is derived from reason itself. Thus, it is in our nature to be moral just as it is in our nature to be rational. If a human being is bad it means that they have forsaken their humanity and given themselves up to animalistic desires at the expense of their moral obligations.
If it is in our nature to be rational, and reason points toward the good, it is impossible to think that it is in the nature of human beings to be bad. If you think that human beings are bad by nature, then it means you haven't given enough thought to the subject, or it means that you have submitted yourself to baseless pessimism which stems from a lack of maturity in the mind.
So you might think that this is somehow relative and I'm just judging you for thinking differently. But in fact, your way of thinking is wrong. Yes that's possible, and yes in this case it's true. I am right and you are wrong. There is no arguing this.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
It's called being polite.
Lol, this coming from you who hasn't been polite at all in this thread, throwing out the f bombs, calling people retards, morons, etc. You seem very angry. You should calm down. The way you treat people in this thread, I don't think an outside observer would classify you as a good person, but me being the good person that I am, will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume there might be some good in you yet! It's called being polite!
Considering the way they are acting, I don't feel I owe them any polite treatment. They gave up that right when they refused to honor it in others. I'm pretty calm though in real life right now. I mean, you have to look past the screen and think about what I probably actually look like. My face isn't read and I don't have smoke coming out of my ears. I'm just saying what needs to be said.
The Lord Hath Spoken. Continue your journey as a knight of good against evildoers like people who disagree with you. I could argue for long to defend my point of view if winning an argument on TL wasn't like the special Olympics. You know even if you win, you're still retarded.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
It's called being polite.
Lol, this coming from you who hasn't been polite at all in this thread, throwing out the f bombs, calling people retards, morons, etc. You seem very angry. You should calm down. The way you treat people in this thread, I don't think an outside observer would classify you as a good person, but me being the good person that I am, will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume there might be some good in you yet! It's called being polite!
Considering the way they are acting, I don't feel I owe them any polite treatment. They gave up that right when they refused to honor it in others. I'm pretty calm though in real life right now. I mean, you have to look past the screen and think about what I probably actually look like. My face isn't read and I don't have smoke coming out of my ears. I'm just saying what needs to be said.
The Lord Hath Spoken. Continue your journey as a knight of good against evildoers like people who disagree with you. I could argue for long to defend my point of view if winning an argument on TL wasn't like the special Olympics. You know even if you win, you're still retarded.
Well that's not very nice. You might hurt some people feelings!
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
It's not a question of immediate belief. You assume the best in people. That's what good people do. If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you are a bad person. You don't have to be devoted to your belief, but you should give people the benefit of the doubt despite your disbelief. It's called being polite.
If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you're someone mature enough to believe human's nature can be bad. It means you're a grown up and understand that people fuck up, and that Internet is a big fat book of lies and deceit. In my world, I'm an adult using my brain. In your world I'm a bad person. I have not judged anyone except through the proofs and facts that were given to me, and yet you judge me for thinking differently. It's called being prejudiced.
Thinking that human nature can be bad is immature, or at the very least I would say that it shows a lack of thought on the subject. The whole concept of moral responsibility and the idea of duty comes from the fact that human nature has a capacity for goodness.
Homo homini lupus est. Thomas Hobbes in The Leviathan discusses this idea. But I guess with your sword of righteousness stuck up your bum you don't need to read books to claim to know it all. You're on it with the lack of thought though, I've definitely not read every book on the human condition. (a lot, though)
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
It's not a question of immediate belief. You assume the best in people. That's what good people do. If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you are a bad person. You don't have to be devoted to your belief, but you should give people the benefit of the doubt despite your disbelief. It's called being polite.
If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you're someone mature enough to believe human's nature can be bad. It means you're a grown up and understand that people fuck up, and that Internet is a big fat book of lies and deceit. In my world, I'm an adult using my brain. In your world I'm a bad person. I have not judged anyone except through the proofs and facts that were given to me, and yet you judge me for thinking differently. It's called being prejudiced.
Thinking that human nature can be bad is immature, or at the very least I would say that it shows a lack of thought on the subject. The whole concept of moral responsibility and the idea of duty comes from the fact that human nature has a capacity for goodness.
Homo homini lupus est. Thomas Hobbes in The Leviathan discusses this idea. But I guess with your sword of righteousness stuck up your bum you don't need to read books to claim to know it all. You're on it with the lack of thought though, I've definitely not read any book on human condition while studying for my PHD in philosophy.
I've written papers on how wrong Hobbes is on this subject, and in general I don't care for the way Hobbes does philosophy. He might be well known, but it doesn't mean he is right.
Good luck with the PhD by the way. It's a bunch of hard work and it seems like you'll never finish, but once you do it feels pretty good.
But now that this has gone about 7 leagues off topic I think this will be my last post on the subject.
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
It's not a question of immediate belief. You assume the best in people. That's what good people do. If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you are a bad person. You don't have to be devoted to your belief, but you should give people the benefit of the doubt despite your disbelief. It's called being polite.
If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you're someone mature enough to believe human's nature can be bad. It means you're a grown up and understand that people fuck up, and that Internet is a big fat book of lies and deceit. In my world, I'm an adult using my brain. In your world I'm a bad person. I have not judged anyone except through the proofs and facts that were given to me, and yet you judge me for thinking differently. It's called being prejudiced.
Thinking that human nature can be bad is immature, or at the very least I would say that it shows a lack of thought on the subject. The whole concept of moral responsibility and the idea of duty comes from the fact that human nature has a capacity for goodness.
Homo homini lupus est. Thomas Hobbes in The Leviathan discusses this idea. But I guess with your sword of righteousness stuck up your bum you don't need to read books to claim to know it all. You're on it with the lack of thought though, I've definitely not read any book on human condition while studying for my PHD in philosophy.
I've written papers on how wrong Hobbes is on this subject, and in general I don't care for the way Hobbes does philosophy. He might be well known, but it doesn't mean he is right.
Good luck with the PhD by the way. It's a bunch of hard work and it seems like you'll never finish, but once you do it feels pretty good.
But now that this has gone about 7 leagues off topic I think this will be my last post on the subject.
Thanks for the good luck, although wouldn't have helped when I aced this shit 3 years ago. But hey english language is hard to understand sometimes you've just misread what I meant when talking about studying. Would like to read the papers you wrote on rebutting Hobbes though, never heard of it before but if you did it well it surely must have made history.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
It's not a question of immediate belief. You assume the best in people. That's what good people do. If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you are a bad person. You don't have to be devoted to your belief, but you should give people the benefit of the doubt despite your disbelief. It's called being polite.
If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you're someone mature enough to believe human's nature can be bad. It means you're a grown up and understand that people fuck up, and that Internet is a big fat book of lies and deceit. In my world, I'm an adult using my brain. In your world I'm a bad person. I have not judged anyone except through the proofs and facts that were given to me, and yet you judge me for thinking differently. It's called being prejudiced.
Thinking that human nature can be bad is immature, or at the very least I would say that it shows a lack of thought on the subject. The whole concept of moral responsibility and the idea of duty comes from the fact that human nature has a capacity for goodness.
Homo homini lupus est. Thomas Hobbes in The Leviathan discusses this idea. But I guess with your sword of righteousness stuck up your bum you don't need to read books to claim to know it all. You're on it with the lack of thought though, I've definitely not read any book on human condition while studying for my PHD in philosophy.
I've written papers on how wrong Hobbes is on this subject, and in general I don't care for the way Hobbes does philosophy. He might be well known, but it doesn't mean he is right.
Good luck with the PhD by the way. It's a bunch of hard work and it seems like you'll never finish, but once you do it feels pretty good.
But now that this has gone about 7 leagues off topic I think this will be my last post on the subject.
Thanks for the good luck, although wouldn't have helped when I aced this shit 3 years ago. But hey english language is hard to understand sometimes you've just misread what I meant when talking about studying. Would like to read the papers you wrote on rebutting Hobbes though, never heard of it before but if you did it well it surely must have made history.
Can't say this is really on topic but hey an argument on the internet went to Thomas Hobbes instead of "lel ur a bitch" or something so I dunno if I can really complain.
On March 18 2014 03:48 MichaelDonovan wrote: [quote]
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
Nah don't try to think. I'm already labeled as a 15 year old looser for not believing immediately what the Internet throws at me. You'll lose your soul.
It's not a question of immediate belief. You assume the best in people. That's what good people do. If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you are a bad person. You don't have to be devoted to your belief, but you should give people the benefit of the doubt despite your disbelief. It's called being polite.
If you automatically assume the worst in people, then you're someone mature enough to believe human's nature can be bad. It means you're a grown up and understand that people fuck up, and that Internet is a big fat book of lies and deceit. In my world, I'm an adult using my brain. In your world I'm a bad person. I have not judged anyone except through the proofs and facts that were given to me, and yet you judge me for thinking differently. It's called being prejudiced.
Thinking that human nature can be bad is immature, or at the very least I would say that it shows a lack of thought on the subject. The whole concept of moral responsibility and the idea of duty comes from the fact that human nature has a capacity for goodness.
Homo homini lupus est. Thomas Hobbes in The Leviathan discusses this idea. But I guess with your sword of righteousness stuck up your bum you don't need to read books to claim to know it all. You're on it with the lack of thought though, I've definitely not read any book on human condition while studying for my PHD in philosophy.
I've written papers on how wrong Hobbes is on this subject, and in general I don't care for the way Hobbes does philosophy. He might be well known, but it doesn't mean he is right.
Good luck with the PhD by the way. It's a bunch of hard work and it seems like you'll never finish, but once you do it feels pretty good.
But now that this has gone about 7 leagues off topic I think this will be my last post on the subject.
Thanks for the good luck, although wouldn't have helped when I aced this shit 3 years ago. But hey english language is hard to understand sometimes you've just misread what I meant when talking about studying. Would like to read the papers you wrote on rebutting Hobbes though, never heard of it before but if you did it well it surely must have made history.
Can't say this is really on topic but hey an argument on the internet went to Thomas Hobbes instead of "lel ur a bitch" or something so I dunno if I can really complain.
Yeah I've gone overboard. But you know what ? Quantic. Sons of starcraft. AZUBU. Papa John Pizza. We got fucked. I refuse to bend over without someone buying me a drink first now.
What happened with Papa Johns? I did the pizza.gg thing and it worked great for me. /shrug
I always wanted a shirt that said Love Your Girlfriend ever since I heard about the team, I kinda feel like that would be a better name for a fashion company than SC2 eSport brand. If the CEO is serious you could possibly sell a lot of shirts.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
I'll quote a post I made in another LYGF when HTOMario announced his retirement
Lol....You think it's just Quantic? This thread is so painfully familiar that it's hilarious to me. It's happened with so many other "teams" that end up being scams. No legitimate team just pops up with no recognition/support behind it.
It's another scam. Wake up SC2 community. People need to contact Genius and Tassadar and tell them to stay away from these people.
Then contact them and tell them what you think you know, otherwise you're not helping anyone out, you're just running a teams name through the mud for no reason. No player from LYGF has come forward saying they weren't paid and it's ridiculous of you to just assume otherwise....
Here is a skype conversation between HTOMario and Pascal Anton (LYGF owner) [2/1/2014 10:42:07 AM] Pascal Anton: yeah [2/1/2014 10:42:12 AM] HTOMario: any news on sponsor? [2/1/2014 10:42:46 AM] HTOMario: it's february o.o [2/1/2014 10:44:27 AM] Pascal Anton: seems like they are screwing us over [2/1/2014 10:44:34 AM] HTOMario: yeah [2/1/2014 10:45:47 AM] HTOMario: but my salary wasn't a problem before we had them? [2/1/2014 10:46:35 AM] Pascal Anton: i will send you a good amount on monday [2/1/2014 10:46:44 AM] HTOMario: ok ty
Mario later goes on to say in the thread that Pascal kept giving him the run-around and coming up with excuses and that he was never actually paid.
NAUG was the new sponsor Pascal was referring too. After a bit of being late I discovered through pascal that NAUG was either stalling or delaying payments in the sponsorship they promised. - HTOMario
That's 1 player
I had a very similar experience when I was on LYGF..i'm glad I left when I did. I had multiple late payments AND even CANCELLED payments. I'm sorry this happened to you Mario hopefully it doesn't happen to anyone else. - LYGFBails In reply to Bails - Ah why didn't you say anything?! I'm sorry man I had no idea any of this was going on until it hit me as well. I thought everything was good and even replaced some gear which they never reimbursed me for back in early december - HTOMario
That's 2
Hi guys, this is SeOuLStEaL and I was on LYGF as well. When I woke up this morning, I must say that I didn't expect to hear that HTOMario had left LYGF... But when I asked Mario himself, I was shocked that not only did he leave the team, but that some of the rumors were true about some of the members not receiving payment. I thought that maybe the financial "issues" were resolved but it appears I was mistaken. When I saw that Mario had left LYGF, it struck me that maybe it was my time to leave too. - LYGFSeOuLStEaL
I was right from day 1. Check my post history LYGF was sketchy Day one yet LYGF down voted me and tried to make themselves look legit. LYGF should be ashamed. At least we caught scam now before it turned ink a hyun situation. Anton pascal has always been sketchy, from past teams. I hope this is a lesson to community to investigate and not be blinded. I wish Mario the best. - fxo_dragonflyss
If this is true, then that would make 4! And I'm sure there are others who have received late payments or not been paid at all that just haven't said anything yet. Honestly, if this isn't enough evidence, then you're blind.
Multiple players come forward about not receiving payments on time or not receiving them at all, and then the "CEO" contracts a terminal heart disease and the team disbands? I don't know how anyone could honestly believe this...
Yeah, I don't know much about what is going on, but the whole I got a "terminal illness when my players were complaining last month about not getting paid" does not sit well. Of course we will never know what really happened.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Voicing skepticism isn't the same as being openly malicious, the moment you cross over that line and start publicly defaming someone with out any knowledge about the situation you've gone too far. Whether or not the situation is true to your interpretation is irrelevant at that point, because it will just be confirmation bias regardless of how it actually turns out, because that's not what's important to you. If they were wrong the damage was already done and I doubt the people here who are openly malicious have any decency to publicly apologize, if they were right they would just gloat and pretend like they got the moral victory, it's pathetic.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
This is the best thing said in this thread so far. This should be quoted everywhere in the SC2 community. It applies to so much. Thanks MichaelDonovan!
On March 18 2014 00:59 Pirfiktshon wrote: Honestly I stopped reading after all teh stupid crap started..... LYGF is and was an awesome team. They might not have been well known but they still had some serious talent in that group.....
1 Thing I'm going to mention as a suggestion instead of all this hatred. I am wondering if Basetrade TV would be willing to host a fundraising tournament of SC2 in the name of Pascal Anton to help him in his time of need for giving so much to the community.......
Which community are you talking about ? LYGF has been up for ONE year, with only one interesting recruit, Genius, no results and a shady history of not paying players, which was proven by facts. People get diseases and die, it's sad, but such is life.
We as a community have been fucked by stupid brats who thought they could get away with everything and blatantly lied to us, so this is how some of us respond : sorry, but shit happens. I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ? Definitely guilty until proven innocent. That's what you get for not being honest with people.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Can you quote me making fun of fatally ill people ? You can't, because I didn't do that. I said I was skeptical, which seems to be something you don't like, I'm okay with it. I've not made killer jokes, sadly, because I'm really not that funny. But you stating "killer jokes" and the OP writing about a "heavy heart" when speaking about LYGF's manager's heart condition have definitely been more humorous and playful.
People get sick and die. It sucks. I don't like it. I hope, if this is true, that the manager of LYGF gets better and heal. But until then you can't take my ability out to speak for myself and give my opinion. Don't like it ? Move on. No need to throw a fit at me.
Of course I can't. Read 'one' for the you in 'If you're just going to make fun...'. But Pirfiktshon was talking about 'all the crap he was reading', which to me doesn't translate as 'anybody voicing suspicion', although even that is a bit low in the face of death. It translates as 'all the people joking about it'. So you blaming him translated to me as you defending the people who joked about it, so naturally I tried to explain why you one shouldn't do that.
Apart from that, you chose not to respond to my main point, which is that we as a community have neither right nor sufficient information to judge anybody, and that the fact that some team managers have ripped off people in the past doesn't give you as a person the right to judge people 'until proven innocent', as you put it, especially not since you can't really claim that they harmed you (as a person, that is) in any relevant way. The whole idea that people fucking up their teams gives you the right to judge anybody is a bit immature, especially so for a PhD. But I'm neither condemning scepticism nor telling you to blindly swallow anything you read on the internet. I'd just recommend not showing your disbelief too blatently where everybody can access it, on the (however off) chance that there really might be a person dying.
Yes, it must be very hard for you as a community. Probably, you as a community should see a shrink and get group therapy or whatever. Poor you as a community. But I think you as a community shouldn't judge people to be guily until proven innocent. You as a community might just expect there to be assholes and there to be guys that aren't and then just not judge them at all in public forums at all, because let's face it, you as a community have no obligation and hardly any right to judge people, especially if you have so little way of knowing what's true and what isn't. Because if you're just going to make fun of everyone claiming to be fatally ill on the chance that they're lying, statistics say that a couple of times, you're going to be that asshole that made fun of someone dying. Is that worth it for having made that killer joke everybody laughed about? (Except, of course, people who don't think people dying is anything to make fun of, even if it turned out not to be true in this particular case).
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
On March 18 2014 03:48 MichaelDonovan wrote: [quote]
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
So there will only be like five people thinking it's funny to troll about it? :O
On March 18 2014 03:48 MichaelDonovan wrote: [quote]
Yeah I can't believe this dude. "We as a community have been fucked..." Are you serious dude? Get a fucking grip. How has the community been "fucked?" If you feel "fucked" by anything like this then you need to take a step back and think about your life. Because these are not the kinds of things that should "fuck" you. But maybe he's just fifteen or something and has no perspective and thinks he's getting fucked when really nothing's happening. In that case life will have to hit him like a ton of bricks later to set him straight.
Edit: "I'll be sorry if bad things happen, but until then ?" Until then you're just going to be a complete dick because if you're sorry later then it's okay? Yeah this is definitely a kid. 15 or 16 probably. I won't say much more then because he's basically a punching bag in that case and it's not really fair for me to rip him to pieces.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
So there will only be like five people thinking it's funny to troll about it? :O
Remind me when I said I think it's ok for people to be trolling about this.
Get a grip? Lol you're the one raging because people are expressing skepticism. Very few posters, if any, would think its okay to laugh at someone dying of a terminal illness. But that's not what's happening. Shady team with mysterious investor, shady drama brought to light, and now the team is disbanding. If this were a venerable team like liquid or EG people would be lining up to offer their support and condolences. But given this team and its dubious history, of course a lot of people are expressing doubts.
What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely.
It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here.
On March 18 2014 05:57 MichaelDonovan wrote: [quote] What dubious history? This particular team is not shady in any way as far as we know. There hasn't been any reason for believing that they are shady. If there is, link it to me. But basically what I mean by "goodbye TL" is that I'm done trying to be nice to people and mind my manners and be a respectful "community member" around here. I am not a part of this community anymore. But I will post here to call you idiots out on your idiocy when I feel like it. Nothing ragy about this. I'm just done being nice to you morons.
How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely.
It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here.
On March 18 2014 08:01 knOxStarcraft wrote: [quote] How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely.
It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here.
On March 18 2014 08:01 knOxStarcraft wrote: [quote] How, exactly, does being skeptical make people morons? Being skeptical of the situation doesn't mean judging anyone, assuming anything, or making fun of anyone, it's just the logical stance to have given the situation. If you're talking about the people making a joke of it, well they chose a bad time and place to make a joke but it still doesn't make them morons.
Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely.
It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here.
edit: fixed added word
Ugh okay nope. I'm done with you.
Lol I thought you were done with the Teamliquid.net community 14 posts ago? Doubtful.
On March 18 2014 08:08 MichaelDonovan wrote: [quote] Well I was PM'd by a mod telling me not to call people morons anymore, so I won't. The reason I was was saying they are morons is because of the arguments they were using. Like saying "this community has been fucked" by team managers lying and stuff, as if the community is in any way fucked by such a thing, and saying that if it turns out he is actually dying, then they will apologize, as if apologizing makes it alright that they were being a dick in the first place.
You know? Like don't be a dick with the intention of apologizing later if it turns out you were wrong.
I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely.
It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here.
edit: fixed added word
Ugh okay nope. I'm done with you.
Lol I thought you were done with the Teamliquid.net community 14 posts ago? Doubtful.
What I mean is that I no longer consider myself a part of your community. I will continue to lurk and if I see people who need to be set straight I will post in order to do so, if I'm bored enough, that is. But I no longer identify myself as one of you. That probably doesn't make sense. Basically all I mean is that my attitude toward the TL.net/Starcraft community has changed. I don't much care for most of you anymore and I don't want to be lumped into the rest of you. I will post if I feel like it, but I will do so as an outsider.
On March 18 2014 00:45 MichaelDonovan wrote: Ok honestly you guys are completely fucking disgusting. This man is dying and all you guys want to do is stir up a shit storm about it and make fun of their team name and talk about how nobody would have ever taken them seriously anyway and its not a surprise that the team is disbanding etc.
And then theres the assholes talking about how skeptical they are that the man is actually dying and how he's probably just trying to dodge paying his players.
And nobody is getting modded for it whatsoever.
So, I think I'm done here. That's enough TeamLiquid.net for me. You people are just bad people. There's no defending you. You're terrible awful people.
Goodbye.
Lel it's the Internet, grow a pair. Do I think some people are being rude, yeah, but I'm not going to rage quit teamliquid/the Internet over it.
What does it being the internet have anything to do with it? People don't stop being human beings when they are on the internet. "Grow a pair" is an expression which says that I lack courage or strength of will. So I don't think grow a pair actually means anything here.
you made a post crying about how horrible this community is and how you are rage quitting the community because a few people were rude in a thread where there is a possibility that it is a hoax to begin with. No reason to pass judgment on an entire community because a handful of people were rude in one thread. For someone who is done with the community, you sure are posting a ton in the community, and directed at the community
On March 18 2014 00:45 MichaelDonovan wrote: Ok honestly you guys are completely fucking disgusting. This man is dying and all you guys want to do is stir up a shit storm about it and make fun of their team name and talk about how nobody would have ever taken them seriously anyway and its not a surprise that the team is disbanding etc.
And then theres the assholes talking about how skeptical they are that the man is actually dying and how he's probably just trying to dodge paying his players.
And nobody is getting modded for it whatsoever.
So, I think I'm done here. That's enough TeamLiquid.net for me. You people are just bad people. There's no defending you. You're terrible awful people.
Goodbye.
Lel it's the Internet, grow a pair. Do I think some people are being rude, yeah, but I'm not going to rage quit teamliquid/the Internet over it.
What does it being the internet have anything to do with it? People don't stop being human beings when they are on the internet. "Grow a pair" is an expression which says that I lack courage or strength of will. So I don't think grow a pair actually means anything here.
you made a post crying about how horrible this community is and how you are rage quitting the community because a few people were rude in a thread where there is a possibility that it is a hoax to begin with. No reason to pass judgment on an entire community because a handful of people were rude in one thread
Neither crying nor rage existed. That's you making things up. And the reason I judge the community as a whole for this is the fact that nobody was moderated for being such awful people. The leaders/moderators who make the rules which guide the community's behavior seem to think that what has happened in this thread is acceptable. I can't be a part of a community whose leaders/moderators endorse this kind of behavior.
Besides, I'm visiting my parents for the week and all I have with me is a laptop. So.. I really have nothing better to do than to piddle around here. When you're this bored, piddling around on TL is like crack. I mean, it's either this or play maplestory.
This guy paid players out of his own pocket. He should be honored instead of w/e the people in this thread are saying. Even though he may not have always been responsible paying HTOMario and Bails on time, they still received money from him when other teams would not support those players. Same thing goes for Tassadar, Genius, and the rest of the players on LYGF. Honestly with all the hate he received simply over the team's name, it makes sense that he would back out of starcraft. Thanks to your guys' negative skepticism, at least 5 less starcraft players are receiving a salary. Its even worse that he may have a terminal heart illness, even though this could be an excuse to minimize criticism, it would be terrible if this is true. He is a nice honest guy from the interactions I have had with him at least. These players' contracts were also set to expire, and according to other LYGF members, they were paid in full what was stated in their contracts by the time it ended. Just because people with money back out of SC esports, does not mean you should hate them. The toxicity in this community is just insane, its saddening. Look what happened with LG and IM, even though they backed out, I still thanked them for sponsoring many of my favorite players for a year and now have a favorable opinion towards their brand. This thread is seriously disgusting to read for the most part. Although I may retract this statement if it turns out the were not paid what they were owed, but honestly for them something was better than nothing. We should be grateful rather than hateful regardless in my opinion.
On March 18 2014 14:43 intense555 wrote: This guy paid players out of his own pocket. He should be honored instead of w/e the people in this thread are saying. Even though he may not have always been responsible paying HTOMario and Bails on time, they still received money from him when other teams would not support those players. Same thing goes for Tassadar, Genius, and the rest of the players on LYGF. Honestly with all the hate he received simply over the team's name, it makes sense that he would back out of starcraft. Thanks to your guys' negative skepticism, at least 5 less starcraft players are receiving a salary. Its even worse that he may have a terminal heart illness, even though this could be an excuse to minimize criticism, it would be terrible if this is true. He is a nice honest guy from the interactions I have had with him at least. These players' contracts were also set to expire, and according to other LYGF members, they were paid in full what was stated in their contracts by the time it ended. Just because people with money back out of SC esports, does not mean you should hate them. The toxicity in this community is just insane, its saddening. Look what happened with LG and IM, even though they backed out, I still thanked them for sponsoring many of my favorite players for a year and now have a favorable opinion towards their brand. This thread is seriously disgusting to read for the most part. Although I may retract this statement if it turns out the were not paid what they were owed, but honestly for them something was better than nothing. We should be grateful rather than hateful regardless in my opinion.
According to HTOMario he was never paid what he was owed.... the same goes for other players who left the team because of it. Pascal put a post on the website saying those players were paid, but this is apparently a lie.
On March 18 2014 14:43 intense555 wrote: This guy paid players out of his own pocket. He should be honored instead of w/e the people in this thread are saying. Even though he may not have always been responsible paying HTOMario and Bails on time, they still received money from him when other teams would not support those players. Same thing goes for Tassadar, Genius, and the rest of the players on LYGF. Honestly with all the hate he received simply over the team's name, it makes sense that he would back out of starcraft. Thanks to your guys' negative skepticism, at least 5 less starcraft players are receiving a salary. Its even worse that he may have a terminal heart illness, even though this could be an excuse to minimize criticism, it would be terrible if this is true. He is a nice honest guy from the interactions I have had with him at least. These players' contracts were also set to expire, and according to other LYGF members, they were paid in full what was stated in their contracts by the time it ended. Just because people with money back out of SC esports, does not mean you should hate them. The toxicity in this community is just insane, its saddening. Look what happened with LG and IM, even though they backed out, I still thanked them for sponsoring many of my favorite players for a year and now have a favorable opinion towards their brand. This thread is seriously disgusting to read for the most part. Although I may retract this statement if it turns out the were not paid what they were owed, but honestly for them something was better than nothing. We should be grateful rather than hateful regardless in my opinion.
lol so its ok to screw over your employees if you are paying them out of your own pocket? Many of these players passed up other opportunities and relied on lygf for payment. They could have been on other teams getting paid on time, had a personal sponsor, or even retired and moved on to something else. Instead they relied on a team who hired them only to have late payments or money still owed. It is unacceptable in any business to not pay your employees promptly as agreed, being an esports team does not make that ok....
On March 18 2014 08:38 knOxStarcraft wrote: [quote] I would consider players getting scammed as being a detriment to the scene, and in turn the community, wouldn't you? I was just defending the skeptics, because I'm still very skeptical of the whole thing. Will you apologize if he is actually scamming everyone? I don't give a crap either way, I wonder why you do.
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely.
It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here.
edit: fixed added word
Ugh okay nope. I'm done with you.
Lol I thought you were done with the Teamliquid.net community 14 posts ago? Doubtful.
What I mean is that I no longer consider myself a part of your community. I will continue to lurk and if I see people who need to be set straight I will post in order to do so, if I'm bored enough, that is. But I no longer identify myself as one of you. That probably doesn't make sense. Basically all I mean is that my attitude toward the TL.net/Starcraft community has changed. I don't much care for most of you anymore and I don't want to be lumped into the rest of you. I will post if I feel like it, but I will do so as an outsider.
You're my hero, setting all these wrong doers straight. Even though you don't much care for most of the community you spend your very valuable "bored" time mopping up the mess of disrespect and wickedness that wrong doers spew all over TL because these evil mods won't lift a finger. Lets all give this man a round of applause!
Most people probably saw this coming from the start the team was set up, but I do not think we can argue about things we don't know about, such as paying on time and other.
I hope the players will find a proper new team, and if the manager is ill, that he gets better soon.
On March 18 2014 08:44 MichaelDonovan wrote: [quote]
To your first point, maybe, but I think in comparison, the players who were on the team getting scammed were the ones getting fucked. A weaker term needs to be used when it comes to the impact on the community since the two states of fuckedness can't be compared. Like doing work and not getting your salary, that's getting fucked. Being lied to and having less faith in starcraft teams? That's not really getting fucked.
In addition, it is not skepticism with regards to the issue that I am saying is wrong. What I think is wrong is posting about it in the thread announcing somebody's terminal illness. It's fine to be skeptical, but it's not okay to post about it here. Some things are better left unsaid.
I have no reason to apologize if it turns out that this man is actually lying and is not on his deathbed because giving people the benefit of the doubt before evidence is gathered is not wrong. Hell, even being skeptical isn't really wrong. What's wrong is publicizing that skepticism. It's tasteless and disrespectful.
I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely.
It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here.
edit: fixed added word
Ugh okay nope. I'm done with you.
Lol I thought you were done with the Teamliquid.net community 14 posts ago? Doubtful.
What I mean is that I no longer consider myself a part of your community. I will continue to lurk and if I see people who need to be set straight I will post in order to do so, if I'm bored enough, that is. But I no longer identify myself as one of you. That probably doesn't make sense. Basically all I mean is that my attitude toward the TL.net/Starcraft community has changed. I don't much care for most of you anymore and I don't want to be lumped into the rest of you. I will post if I feel like it, but I will do so as an outsider.
You're my hero, setting all these wrong doers straight. Even though you don't much care for most of the community you spend your very valuable "bored" time mopping up the mess of disrespect and wickedness that wrong doers spew all over TL because these evil mods won't lift a finger. Lets all give this man a round of applause!
Because I'm the hero TL.net deserves, but not the one it needs right now. You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
On March 18 2014 08:57 knOxStarcraft wrote: [quote] I'm not seeing how people posting that they're skeptical on a public forum is wrong, tasteless, or disrespectful. I guess its just a matter of opinion at this point, we obviously have differing thoughts on what's right and what's wrong regarding issues like this.
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely.
It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here.
edit: fixed added word
Ugh okay nope. I'm done with you.
Lol I thought you were done with the Teamliquid.net community 14 posts ago? Doubtful.
What I mean is that I no longer consider myself a part of your community. I will continue to lurk and if I see people who need to be set straight I will post in order to do so, if I'm bored enough, that is. But I no longer identify myself as one of you. That probably doesn't make sense. Basically all I mean is that my attitude toward the TL.net/Starcraft community has changed. I don't much care for most of you anymore and I don't want to be lumped into the rest of you. I will post if I feel like it, but I will do so as an outsider.
You're my hero, setting all these wrong doers straight. Even though you don't much care for most of the community you spend your very valuable "bored" time mopping up the mess of disrespect and wickedness that wrong doers spew all over TL because these evil mods won't lift a finger. Lets all give this man a round of applause!
Because I'm the hero TL.net deserves, but not the one it needs right now. You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
yeah yeah we get it you are something special. well played. now lets move on. elitism stinks.
On March 18 2014 09:04 MichaelDonovan wrote: [quote]
Well imagine that you're on your deathbed and you announce to TeamLiquid, "Hey guys I'm dying etc. I won't be posting anymore. Sorry. Goodbye."
And half of the people in the thread are like "Oh yeah I bet he just got tired of starcraft and doesn't want to have to talk to us anymore. I really don't believe you're dying dude, but nice try."
Lol there's no motive to lie in that case and anyone who would actually post that would have been around a long time and known by people on TL, like a close friend, which changes the situation completely. Obviously if I know someone well and they tell me they're dying I'm going to believe them.
That's beside the point. We're not talking about whether or not this situation is likely.
It's a completely different situation to the one we're talking about so I don't see how it's relevant. Regardless, having a neutral stance isn't the same as betting that he's lying, so I don't really see what point you're trying to make here.
edit: fixed added word
Ugh okay nope. I'm done with you.
Lol I thought you were done with the Teamliquid.net community 14 posts ago? Doubtful.
What I mean is that I no longer consider myself a part of your community. I will continue to lurk and if I see people who need to be set straight I will post in order to do so, if I'm bored enough, that is. But I no longer identify myself as one of you. That probably doesn't make sense. Basically all I mean is that my attitude toward the TL.net/Starcraft community has changed. I don't much care for most of you anymore and I don't want to be lumped into the rest of you. I will post if I feel like it, but I will do so as an outsider.
You're my hero, setting all these wrong doers straight. Even though you don't much care for most of the community you spend your very valuable "bored" time mopping up the mess of disrespect and wickedness that wrong doers spew all over TL because these evil mods won't lift a finger. Lets all give this man a round of applause!
Because I'm the hero TL.net deserves, but not the one it needs right now. You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
yeah yeah we get it you are something special. well played. now lets move on. elitism stinks.
Don't have to be elite to enjoy a batman reference...
I don't know what's worse; is it making jokes, being skeptical, or monopolizing the discussion with the same point of view over and over and eventually ducking out when you realize practically nobody agrees with you?
Some of us are just here asking for some accountability and truth out of this team. They have, admittedly, been tied up in some sketchy activity and due to this, we're not all convinced by the sympathetic tone of the announcement. This is neither bad nor good; it's absolutely neutral. It's not meant as an insult to Pascal.
Please, nobody needs to be butthurt on the guy's behalf. The mods know what they're doing, and inappropriate posts have been hammered accordingly.
On March 18 2014 21:00 Gianttt wrote: Most people probably saw this coming from the start the team was set up, but I do not think we can argue about things we don't know about, such as paying on time and other.
I hope the players will find a proper new team, and if the manager is ill, that he gets better soon.
People don't typically recover from an illness once it's been labelled as terminal.
It's also pretty easy to know about whether or not the staff have been paid: you ask them, or you crack open the "books". If you don't ask questions, obviously you'll never know.You're right that it's pointless to argue, because in regards to the facts, there is only one truth.
Every time I look at this thread for an update on Pascal, or the team's financial situation, I see people literally arguing over the ethics of blind faith vs skepticism. It's basically a religion thread at this point.
lol at this white knight guy still trying to uphold the integrity of the internet by raging, lecturing, and excoriating the unwashed masses. he's "done" with this place yet he's still posting. classic martyr knight behavior.
On March 19 2014 03:04 fishjie wrote: lol at this white knight guy still trying to uphold the integrity of the internet by raging, lecturing, and excoriating the unwashed masses. he's "done" with this place yet he's still posting. classic martyr knight behavior.
I'm just bored bro. But stop making fun of me it's hurting my feelings. I may shed a single tear which the camera will watch from below as it falls to the floor in slow motion.
Besides, Liquid just announced a surprise smash bros melee team and they have KEN. Ken mother fuckers. I can't leave this community now. They have fucking Ken are you kidding me what the fuck.
On March 19 2014 03:20 MichaelDonovan wrote: Besides, Liquid just announced a surprise smash bros melee team and they have KEN. Ken mother fuckers. I can't leave this community now. They have fucking Ken are you kidding me what the fuck.
On March 19 2014 03:20 MichaelDonovan wrote: Besides, Liquid just announced a surprise smash bros melee team and they have KEN. Ken mother fuckers. I can't leave this community now. They have fucking Ken are you kidding me what the fuck.
On March 19 2014 03:04 fishjie wrote: lol at this white knight guy still trying to uphold the integrity of the internet by raging, lecturing, and excoriating the unwashed masses. he's "done" with this place yet he's still posting. classic martyr knight behavior.
I'm just bored bro. But stop making fun of me it's hurting my feelings. I may shed a single tear which the camera will watch from below as it falls to the floor in slow motion.
You guys are pretty hilarious. Anyone want to host a grudge match?
Considering no one has actually been paid by the guy "paying players out of his own pocket" doesn't actually mean anything. It's just another example of a questionably unethical person taking advantage of younger people's naivete and getting their services for free.
On March 20 2014 11:52 las91 wrote: Considering no one has actually been paid by the guy "paying players out of his own pocket" doesn't actually mean anything. It's just another example of a questionably unethical person taking advantage of younger people's naivete and getting their services for free.
where are you getting this no one has been paid info? i heard of mario not getting a payment, but i havent heard about everyone.
On March 18 2014 14:43 intense555 wrote: This guy paid players out of his own pocket. He should be honored instead of w/e the people in this thread are saying. Even though he may not have always been responsible paying HTOMario and Bails on time, they still received money from him when other teams would not support those players. Same thing goes for Tassadar, Genius, and the rest of the players on LYGF. Honestly with all the hate he received simply over the team's name, it makes sense that he would back out of starcraft. Thanks to your guys' negative skepticism, at least 5 less starcraft players are receiving a salary. Its even worse that he may have a terminal heart illness, even though this could be an excuse to minimize criticism, it would be terrible if this is true. He is a nice honest guy from the interactions I have had with him at least. These players' contracts were also set to expire, and according to other LYGF members, they were paid in full what was stated in their contracts by the time it ended. Just because people with money back out of SC esports, does not mean you should hate them. The toxicity in this community is just insane, its saddening. Look what happened with LG and IM, even though they backed out, I still thanked them for sponsoring many of my favorite players for a year and now have a favorable opinion towards their brand. This thread is seriously disgusting to read for the most part. Although I may retract this statement if it turns out the were not paid what they were owed, but honestly for them something was better than nothing. We should be grateful rather than hateful regardless in my opinion.
lol so its ok to screw over your employees if you are paying them out of your own pocket? Many of these players passed up other opportunities and relied on lygf for payment. They could have been on other teams getting paid on time, had a personal sponsor, or even retired and moved on to something else. Instead they relied on a team who hired them only to have late payments or money still owed. It is unacceptable in any business to not pay your employees promptly as agreed, being an esports team does not make that ok....
every single esport "pro" not on EG or liquid is very aware that they are not dealing with any sort of reliable business entity when it comes to receiving payment. It shouldnt take a genius to understand that some no name guy offering to sponsor you out of pocket does NOT guarentee reliable pay. While this doesnt excuse late payments by management, players are responsible for their own finances. They are more than welcome to pursue a more reliable paycheck.
We should not comdemn a failed business venture in this industry, we should thank them for making the effort.
On March 18 2014 14:43 intense555 wrote: This guy paid players out of his own pocket. He should be honored instead of w/e the people in this thread are saying. Even though he may not have always been responsible paying HTOMario and Bails on time, they still received money from him when other teams would not support those players. Same thing goes for Tassadar, Genius, and the rest of the players on LYGF. Honestly with all the hate he received simply over the team's name, it makes sense that he would back out of starcraft. Thanks to your guys' negative skepticism, at least 5 less starcraft players are receiving a salary. Its even worse that he may have a terminal heart illness, even though this could be an excuse to minimize criticism, it would be terrible if this is true. He is a nice honest guy from the interactions I have had with him at least. These players' contracts were also set to expire, and according to other LYGF members, they were paid in full what was stated in their contracts by the time it ended. Just because people with money back out of SC esports, does not mean you should hate them. The toxicity in this community is just insane, its saddening. Look what happened with LG and IM, even though they backed out, I still thanked them for sponsoring many of my favorite players for a year and now have a favorable opinion towards their brand. This thread is seriously disgusting to read for the most part. Although I may retract this statement if it turns out the were not paid what they were owed, but honestly for them something was better than nothing. We should be grateful rather than hateful regardless in my opinion.
lol so its ok to screw over your employees if you are paying them out of your own pocket? Many of these players passed up other opportunities and relied on lygf for payment. They could have been on other teams getting paid on time, had a personal sponsor, or even retired and moved on to something else. Instead they relied on a team who hired them only to have late payments or money still owed. It is unacceptable in any business to not pay your employees promptly as agreed, being an esports team does not make that ok....
every single esport "pro" not on EG or liquid is very aware that they are not dealing with any sort of reliable business entity when it comes to receiving payment. It shouldnt take a genius to understand that some no name guy offering to sponsor you out of pocket does NOT guarentee reliable pay. While this doesnt excuse late payments by management, players are responsible for their own finances. They are more than welcome to pursue a more reliable paycheck.
We should not comdemn a failed business venture in this industry, we should thank them for making the effort.
i'm probably the #1 advocate of the idea that pro gamers should go into pro gaming knowing that it's not a reliable source of income, i agree with you there. however, i don't understand what you're trying to say. if it "doesn't excuse late payments" then why are you ... excusing the late payments? if there was a contract and he owed money, he owed money. esports, terminal illness, etc. etc. none of these things change the fact that a contract is a contract
like i get what you're saying about the dogpiling mindset of the community, the hatefulness, negativity etc. but i don't think we need to backpedal so far as to say that it's ok for anyone to ever sign a contract promising someone money and then not come through with the money
Im just saying maybe we shouldnt act so shocked when this type of thing happens. Weve seen it before and we'll probably see it again.
Youre right that a contract is a contract and there is no excuse for not delivering on that contract. Having said that, we agree that pro players should go into these ventures knowing that late payments are many times an unfortunate and inexcusable part of the deal.
On March 18 2014 14:43 intense555 wrote: This guy paid players out of his own pocket. He should be honored instead of w/e the people in this thread are saying. Even though he may not have always been responsible paying HTOMario and Bails on time, they still received money from him when other teams would not support those players. Same thing goes for Tassadar, Genius, and the rest of the players on LYGF. Honestly with all the hate he received simply over the team's name, it makes sense that he would back out of starcraft. Thanks to your guys' negative skepticism, at least 5 less starcraft players are receiving a salary. Its even worse that he may have a terminal heart illness, even though this could be an excuse to minimize criticism, it would be terrible if this is true. He is a nice honest guy from the interactions I have had with him at least. These players' contracts were also set to expire, and according to other LYGF members, they were paid in full what was stated in their contracts by the time it ended. Just because people with money back out of SC esports, does not mean you should hate them. The toxicity in this community is just insane, its saddening. Look what happened with LG and IM, even though they backed out, I still thanked them for sponsoring many of my favorite players for a year and now have a favorable opinion towards their brand. This thread is seriously disgusting to read for the most part. Although I may retract this statement if it turns out the were not paid what they were owed, but honestly for them something was better than nothing. We should be grateful rather than hateful regardless in my opinion.
lol so its ok to screw over your employees if you are paying them out of your own pocket? Many of these players passed up other opportunities and relied on lygf for payment. They could have been on other teams getting paid on time, had a personal sponsor, or even retired and moved on to something else. Instead they relied on a team who hired them only to have late payments or money still owed. It is unacceptable in any business to not pay your employees promptly as agreed, being an esports team does not make that ok....
every single esport "pro" not on EG or liquid is very aware that they are not dealing with any sort of reliable business entity when it comes to receiving payment. It shouldnt take a genius to understand that some no name guy offering to sponsor you out of pocket does NOT guarentee reliable pay. While this doesnt excuse late payments by management, players are responsible for their own finances. They are more than welcome to pursue a more reliable paycheck.
We should not comdemn a failed business venture in this industry, we should thank them for making the effort.
That's not true, there are many reputable organisations out there, most of whom have a richer history in eSport than EG and Liquid, and who have never been anything but professional.
The problem is with these individuals who come across money one way or another, and think that they can run a stable business in esport without even attempting to be self-sufficient. You can't expect to have a long term career in such an organisation. As soon as the money runs out, or as soon as the team owner becomes bored of the hassle, it's over.
On March 18 2014 14:43 intense555 wrote: This guy paid players out of his own pocket. He should be honored instead of w/e the people in this thread are saying. Even though he may not have always been responsible paying HTOMario and Bails on time, they still received money from him when other teams would not support those players. Same thing goes for Tassadar, Genius, and the rest of the players on LYGF. Honestly with all the hate he received simply over the team's name, it makes sense that he would back out of starcraft. Thanks to your guys' negative skepticism, at least 5 less starcraft players are receiving a salary. Its even worse that he may have a terminal heart illness, even though this could be an excuse to minimize criticism, it would be terrible if this is true. He is a nice honest guy from the interactions I have had with him at least. These players' contracts were also set to expire, and according to other LYGF members, they were paid in full what was stated in their contracts by the time it ended. Just because people with money back out of SC esports, does not mean you should hate them. The toxicity in this community is just insane, its saddening. Look what happened with LG and IM, even though they backed out, I still thanked them for sponsoring many of my favorite players for a year and now have a favorable opinion towards their brand. This thread is seriously disgusting to read for the most part. Although I may retract this statement if it turns out the were not paid what they were owed, but honestly for them something was better than nothing. We should be grateful rather than hateful regardless in my opinion.
lol so its ok to screw over your employees if you are paying them out of your own pocket? Many of these players passed up other opportunities and relied on lygf for payment. They could have been on other teams getting paid on time, had a personal sponsor, or even retired and moved on to something else. Instead they relied on a team who hired them only to have late payments or money still owed. It is unacceptable in any business to not pay your employees promptly as agreed, being an esports team does not make that ok....
every single esport "pro" not on EG or liquid is very aware that they are not dealing with any sort of reliable business entity when it comes to receiving payment. It shouldnt take a genius to understand that some no name guy offering to sponsor you out of pocket does NOT guarentee reliable pay. While this doesnt excuse late payments by management, players are responsible for their own finances. They are more than welcome to pursue a more reliable paycheck.
We should not comdemn a failed business venture in this industry, we should thank them for making the effort.
That's not true, there are many reputable organisations out there, most of whom have a richer history in eSport than EG and Liquid, and who have never been anything but professional.
The problem is with these individuals who come across money one way or another, and think that they can run a stable business in esport without even attempting to be self-sufficient. You can't expect to have a long term career in such an organisation. As soon as the money runs out, or as soon as the team owner becomes bored of the hassle, it's over.
I know there are many reputable organizations out there, I was just citing what seems to be the general scene, where reliable payments are hard to come by
I cant really offer any insight to how a startup/busniess in this scene functions, but what you said sounds about right.
Can't say I've been a fan of your experiment, but can't say I haven't been tempted to dive into a similar project in my youth. Good luck with your health.
Running an e sports organization isn't a joke job or even an easy job like most of foreigners think, even with considerable experience in marketing or administrative work experience major wouldn't be able to make it in the market. Not because the people currently in the market are brilliant geniuses, but there is such a small profit margin with/without a mainstream sponsor that most can't afford above average salary wages.
The fact is that the market is over saturated compared to the viewership numbers.
It's a bit late for saying this, but now I don't care anymore about it, No one get paid on that team, (I don't know if before I join the players get they're payment but after I join not) I don't get ANYTHING of what Pascal told me, I work for them, I do things and try to help on everything I can, but never get back nothing.
Pascal told me he is so sick, have a terminal illness etc, so at the start i believe him and suposrt him, but them all starts to sound really weird, strange and shady so to be honest, and probably I going to hell for saying this but I don't believe he had a terminal illness and of course don't believe nothing of what he said or whatever, that guy play with my hopes and of with the4 hopes of every person on the team, not only one time, he does too much times and all the team still supposrting him because "well he forget do it" or ""he is a nice person, just is busy".
So just to clarify, NO ONE GET PAID ON LYGF AS FAR AS I KNOW.
Also is not the first time this happens on esports and ios not the first time this happens to me.
[QUOTE]On March 20 2014 12:04 Aveng3r wrote: [QUOTE]On March 18 2014 15:25 RaiderRyan wrote: [QUOTE]On March 18 2014 14:43 intense555 wrote: This guy paid players out of his own pocket. He should be honored instead of w/e the people in this thread are saying. Even though he may not have always been responsible paying HTOMario and Bails on time, they still received money from him when other teams would not support those players. Same thing goes for Tassadar, Genius, and the rest of the players on LYGF. Honestly with all the hate he received simply over the team's name, it makes sense that he would back out of starcraft. Thanks to your guys' negative skepticism, at least 5 less starcraft players are receiving a salary. Its even worse that he may have a terminal heart illness, even though this could be an excuse to minimize criticism, it would be terrible if this is true. He is a nice honest guy from the interactions I have had with him at least. These players' contracts were also set to expire, and according to other LYGF members, they were paid in full what was stated in their contracts by the time it ended. Just because people with money back out of SC esports, does not mean you should hate them. The toxicity in this community is just insane, its saddening. Look what happened with LG and IM, even though they backed out, I still thanked them for sponsoring many of my favorite players for a year and now have a favorable opinion towards their brand. This thread is seriously disgusting to read for the most part. Although I may retract this statement if it turns out the were not paid what they were owed, but honestly for them something was better than nothing. We should be grateful rather than hateful regardless in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
We should not comdemn a failed business venture in this industry, we should thank them for making the effort.[/QUOTE]
failed business venture? no, it was a straight up scam, plain and simple, no need thanking scammers lol
Look at how TB handled his cancer, now, that's professional, then take a look at this fiasco.
On May 16 2014 21:39 BBali wrote: It's a bit late for saying this, but now I don't care anymore about it, No one get paid on that team, (I don't know if before I join the players get they're payment but after I join not) I don't get ANYTHING of what Pascal told me, I work for them, I do things and try to help on everything I can, but never get back nothing.
Pascal told me he is so sick, have a terminal illness etc, so at the start i believe him and suposrt him, but them all starts to sound really weird, strange and shady so to be honest, and probably I going to hell for saying this but I don't believe he had a terminal illness and of course don't believe nothing of what he said or whatever, that guy play with my hopes and of with the4 hopes of every person on the team, not only one time, he does too much times and all the team still supposrting him because "well he forget do it" or ""he is a nice person, just is busy".
So just to clarify, NO ONE GET PAID ON LYGF AS FAR AS I KNOW.
Also is not the first time this happens on esports and ios not the first time this happens to me.
If you're ana bali like I suspect you are, you didn't deserve a single penny in my opinion. If you were the PR manager you did awful. All you did was come into the chat and brag about how many people know you, and you'd insult players on top of that. If you're not the person I'm talking about then I'm sorry, but if you're ana bali you didn't deserve any money at all.