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Hi! I feel that this season ALOT more ppl have been demoted than usual!
I know fellow norwegian players that have been mid master every season, Even one did meet GM's and stil got demoted
Myself i had 2100 points in master and got demoted. i knew 2500+ players that got demoted aswell.
is master league shrinking to 1% or somthing?
Anyone have a thought?
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Well since you can no longer be demoted during the season, I think they do this to reset the ladder a little and make sure everyone is where they should be. I'm sure you'll get back to master in no time :3
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Well if the overall player pool is declining then Masters will get a smaller allocation. Combine this with no demotions in the season and you get a lot at the end. I haven't seen the stats but I wouldn't be surprised if the lower ranks were bleeding players to LoL, and especially Diablo/HS after recent releases. I expect it may eventually become like ICCUP where ranks like gold/platinum are ultra-competitive as the casuals continue to emigrate.
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The season before last, wasn't the ladder harder? But then last season it was made easier again like it used to be? And now it's harder again? We would have heard an announcement of some sort though, wouldn't we have if it were now adjusted in some way yet again?
But I had this thought too because I was demoted - - but I wasn't playing well, so I don't know.
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I should start playing 1on1 again, to push you guys up to the higher leagues!
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Happened to me in 4v4 as well (despite winning the placement match!), which really sucks since there is some randomness and it's harder to climb just by skill But it also happened last season. I played vs so many gold level teams at the beginning, which were very really good and clearly much higher than gold. So they had been demoted as well.
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Demoted as well, despite being top 20 of my league with a 52% win ratio and not having undergone any loss streak before the end of the season... a bit weird, but anyway... it's a relative ranking system so why not. I'd love to see the stats of the player base league by league to understand what exactly is going on with the game.
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I got from gold league to silver.
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I went 15-3 last season and get demoted last night -_-
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Forever diamond. No change. Even lost my placement
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I've been in masters since the game came out and got demoted to Diamond this season.
I havn't played ladder in about a year (only placement game) and i finally got down to diamond so i can play people at my own skill. That "MMR decay" seems to take a while, lol.
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Few days after the start of last season Blizzard only changed league thresholds & offsets. They did not change the MMR decay that lead to the trend that general population's MMR is decreasing. Thus it was expected that many would be demoted at the start of this season if there was no new changes to the thresholds / offsets. In other words they did not fix the main cause last season, but did a 'smoke and mirrors fix'.
More about MMR decay: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/429734-ladder-deflation-and-mmr-decay
Short description: If you are inactive in certain play mode for more than 2 weeks your MMR starts decaying. At 4 weeks mark decay reaches it maximum value that roughly equals 20 straight loss. Thus you have to play at least one match in each mode every 2 weeks to prevent this. But you will still be affected indirectly as many of your opponents have been affected directly.
The old max decay was ~310. The value was not verified after last season's offset changes, but it should be close or the same. The league MMR range size estimates last season were: b 280, s 260, g 290, p 235, d 450. Master range before low GM border was ~2.3 times max decay for EU and ~1.4 times max decay for NA
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I can't speak to masters, because I'm not that good, but I am also frustrated. I ended the season at bottom of plat, won my placement match, and got placed in silver. Its not a big deal because I'm going to roll kids, its just annoying and destroys my enthusiasm to play.
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On April 15 2014 19:02 CoraBlue wrote: I can't speak to masters, because I'm not that good, but I am also frustrated. I ended the season at bottom of plat, won my placement match, and got placed in silver. Its not a big deal because I'm going to roll kids, its just annoying and destroys my enthusiasm to play.
Why? Just don't give a fuck, play a couple of games and i promise you'll be back where you were in no time.
Its just a friggin placement at the beginning of the season, that has absolutely no meaning at all.... just try thinking of it from this perspective: "This way you get to see a promotion screen once again!"
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I know some 2k3/2k4 masters that were demoted yes. Was harsh for them :/
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well i started this season 2-12 and i'm still facing high masters . ( was inactive for last 3 months ) . i think you guys need to play more before complainng how you got demoted but you had a positive score last season. I dont think 20 games in an entire season is enough to keep your spot and neighter your skill at master level if you were around mid master.
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On April 15 2014 19:12 xsnac wrote: well i started this season 2-12 and i'm still facing high masters . ( was inactive for last 3 months ) . i think you guys need to play more before complainng how you got demoted but you had a positive score last season. I dont think 20 games in an entire season is enough to keep your spot and neighter your skill at master level if you were around mid master. Master league MMR range is huge. If you were in high range you will not be demoted even if you faced maximum MMR decay.
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On April 15 2014 19:05 reapsen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 19:02 CoraBlue wrote: I can't speak to masters, because I'm not that good, but I am also frustrated. I ended the season at bottom of plat, won my placement match, and got placed in silver. Its not a big deal because I'm going to roll kids, its just annoying and destroys my enthusiasm to play. Why? Just don't give a fuck, play a couple of games and i promise you'll be back where you were in no time. Its just a friggin placement at the beginning of the season, that has absolutely no meaning at all.... just try thinking of it from this perspective: "This way you get to see a promotion screen once again!"
Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but the max amount of promotions you can get in a season is 2 isn't it? If there's no limit then I'm retarded and nevermind, but being bumped down to silver and realizing you won't improve in ranking for a whole season no matter what you do is... disheartening?
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Yeah. 2300pts masters and demoted to diamond. Takes out your fun of laddering pretty nicely, when I feel like total chobo... I'd propably get back to masters if I wanted, but I don't feel like laddering in diamond :S
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On April 15 2014 19:21 CoraBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 19:05 reapsen wrote:On April 15 2014 19:02 CoraBlue wrote: I can't speak to masters, because I'm not that good, but I am also frustrated. I ended the season at bottom of plat, won my placement match, and got placed in silver. Its not a big deal because I'm going to roll kids, its just annoying and destroys my enthusiasm to play. Why? Just don't give a fuck, play a couple of games and i promise you'll be back where you were in no time. Its just a friggin placement at the beginning of the season, that has absolutely no meaning at all.... just try thinking of it from this perspective: "This way you get to see a promotion screen once again!" Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but the max amount of promotions you can get in a season is 2 isn't it? If there's no limit then I'm retarded and nevermind, but being bumped down to silver and realizing you won't improve in ranking for a whole season no matter what you do is... disheartening? No limits regarding promotions.
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On April 15 2014 19:23 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 19:21 CoraBlue wrote:On April 15 2014 19:05 reapsen wrote:On April 15 2014 19:02 CoraBlue wrote: I can't speak to masters, because I'm not that good, but I am also frustrated. I ended the season at bottom of plat, won my placement match, and got placed in silver. Its not a big deal because I'm going to roll kids, its just annoying and destroys my enthusiasm to play. Why? Just don't give a fuck, play a couple of games and i promise you'll be back where you were in no time. Its just a friggin placement at the beginning of the season, that has absolutely no meaning at all.... just try thinking of it from this perspective: "This way you get to see a promotion screen once again!" Because, correct me if I'm wrong, but the max amount of promotions you can get in a season is 2 isn't it? If there's no limit then I'm retarded and nevermind, but being bumped down to silver and realizing you won't improve in ranking for a whole season no matter what you do is... disheartening? No limits regarding promotions.
Well that's good to know at least. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Last time it happened to me I went down from dia to gold and ended up at 21-3 before losing interest (and still being in gold). It took me another drop to silver to play ladder again (mainly because of ex teammates teasing me about my silver icon...). It is a bit disheartening, and I felt bad for the genuine gold players I faced along the way
edit: that was in 2013, I havent played this season yet, surely a couple games tomorrow
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Yeah definetly no limits for promotions.. have played myself from bronze to plat in one season and saw pros breeze from silver to masters in something around 40-60 games.
So no worries there.
I actually can't understand why people make such a big deal out of it. If you belong in masters, then you'll be back in masters in no-time. Just be happy to grab a couple of easy wins and the more challenging opponents will come to you sooner than you think.
Some guys in here almost act like they are now worse human beeings or sth
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On April 15 2014 19:40 reapsen wrote:Yeah definetly no limits for promotions.. have played myself from bronze to plat in one season and saw pros breeze from silver to masters in something around 40-60 games. So no worries there. I actually can't understand why people make such a big deal out of it. If you belong in masters, then you'll be back in masters in no-time. Just be happy to grab a couple of easy wins and the more challenging opponents will come to you sooner than you think. Some guys in here almost act like they are now worse human beeings or sth Maximum decay roughly equals 20 losses. It takes time to overcome it especially if you face other decayed players. Minimum amount would be ~20 straight wins. With 60 % winrate it would already take ~100 matches.
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On April 15 2014 19:45 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 19:40 reapsen wrote:Yeah definetly no limits for promotions.. have played myself from bronze to plat in one season and saw pros breeze from silver to masters in something around 40-60 games. So no worries there. I actually can't understand why people make such a big deal out of it. If you belong in masters, then you'll be back in masters in no-time. Just be happy to grab a couple of easy wins and the more challenging opponents will come to you sooner than you think. Some guys in here almost act like they are now worse human beeings or sth Maximum decay roughly equals 20 loss. It takes time to overcome it especially if you face other decayed players. Minimum amount would be ~20 straight wins. With 60 % winrate it would already take ~100 matches.
But it is highly unlikely for someone how played some games last season to suffer from the maximum decay deficit. And for someone who got demoted more than one league it should be easy to maintain a 85+% winrate.
Take myself for an example: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/617358/1/reapsen/
I was a solid platinum player for 5 consecutive seasons in row.. stopped playing for a couple of seasons, mmr decay brought me all the way down to bronze(!). Last season i played only 23 games, of which i won 21, which was enough to get me back into gold. If i had the time to grind a couple of games more i am sure, i could be well set in plat already.
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China6284 Posts
Stopped playing a month ago in Silver, probably back in Bronze again.
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On April 15 2014 19:51 reapsen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 19:45 korona wrote:On April 15 2014 19:40 reapsen wrote:Yeah definetly no limits for promotions.. have played myself from bronze to plat in one season and saw pros breeze from silver to masters in something around 40-60 games. So no worries there. I actually can't understand why people make such a big deal out of it. If you belong in masters, then you'll be back in masters in no-time. Just be happy to grab a couple of easy wins and the more challenging opponents will come to you sooner than you think. Some guys in here almost act like they are now worse human beeings or sth Maximum decay roughly equals 20 loss. It takes time to overcome it especially if you face other decayed players. Minimum amount would be ~20 straight wins. With 60 % winrate it would already take ~100 matches. But it is highly unlikely for someone how played some games last season to suffer from the maximum decay deficit. And for someone who got demoted more than one league it should be easy to maintain a 85+% winrate. Take myself for an example: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/617358/1/reapsen/I was a solid platinum player for 5 consecutive seasons in row.. stopped playing for a couple of seasons, mmr decay brought me all the way down to bronze(!). Last season i played only 23 games, of which i won 21, which was enough to get me back into gold. If i had the time to grind a couple of games more i am sure, i could be well set in plat already. It takes only 4 weeks inactivity to suffer the max decay. And considerable amount of players go inactive for that or more during each season.
If you face similar skilled opponents (other decayed players) then your winrate against them is likely ~50% or potentially even lower. Against 'legit' players belonging to that MMR range your winrate should be quite high. It depends who you face. At the start of the season you will face lots of other decayed players.
Also these were the league MMR range sizes last season (note that MMR range size for many leagues is less than max decay. In a typical game you either get or lose 16 MMR points. Thought in practice when you are in high MMR range of your league you gain less & lose more in general):
On April 15 2014 18:55 korona wrote: The old max decay was ~310. The value was not verified after last season's offset changes, but it should be close or the same. The league MMR range size estimates last season were: b 280, s 260, g 290, p 235, d 450. Master range before low GM border was ~2.3 times max decay for EU and ~1.4 times max decay for NA
On April 15 2014 19:52 digmouse wrote: Stopped playing a month ago in Silver, probably back in Bronze again. Yes. If the inactivity was more than 4 weeks then you should be placed in bronze (silver league range is smaller than max decay).
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Inactivity and MMR decay lead to demotions, often large ones.
Need to play a lot to get back where you belong!
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Austria24413 Posts
I got to rank 1 diamond on three separate occasions with ~1500 points on both EU and NA, no promotions or anything. Got demoted on EU, still diamond on NA.
Blizzard, why D:
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On April 15 2014 16:52 MrMotionPicture wrote: Well since you can no longer be demoted during the season, I think they do this to reset the ladder a little and make sure everyone is where they should be. I'm sure you'll get back to master in no time :3
Thing is if a large portion of people got demoted then all the high diamonds are actually masters, so u can't actually go back to masters unless u improve dramatically. I think only masters that didn't get demoted are the ones close to GM MMR
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On April 15 2014 19:51 reapsen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 19:45 korona wrote:On April 15 2014 19:40 reapsen wrote:Yeah definetly no limits for promotions.. have played myself from bronze to plat in one season and saw pros breeze from silver to masters in something around 40-60 games. So no worries there. I actually can't understand why people make such a big deal out of it. If you belong in masters, then you'll be back in masters in no-time. Just be happy to grab a couple of easy wins and the more challenging opponents will come to you sooner than you think. Some guys in here almost act like they are now worse human beeings or sth Maximum decay roughly equals 20 loss. It takes time to overcome it especially if you face other decayed players. Minimum amount would be ~20 straight wins. With 60 % winrate it would already take ~100 matches. But it is highly unlikely for someone how played some games last season to suffer from the maximum decay deficit. And for someone who got demoted more than one league it should be easy to maintain a 85+% winrate. Take myself for an example: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/617358/1/reapsen/I was a solid platinum player for 5 consecutive seasons in row.. stopped playing for a couple of seasons, mmr decay brought me all the way down to bronze(!). Last season i played only 23 games, of which i won 21, which was enough to get me back into gold. If i had the time to grind a couple of games more i am sure, i could be well set in plat already.
I did the same going 21-3 without being promoted. Then I went away on holidays for two weeks and got demoted... I do not have that much time and I try to play about 50 1v1 each season. Spending 80% of them on free wins is no fun at all. I even started playing random to keep from boredom but there are basically no close games, either I destroy the opponent or someone that decayed more that me owns me hard (partly because I am random and dont always get my main race against such players)
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On April 15 2014 18:45 AlaxWayLaxed wrote: Forever diamond. No change. Even lost my placement
yes since WoL beta....
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nvm, this didnt work out too well.
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I was demoted to diamond, after I lost my first placement match, next game I won and was promoted lol
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On April 15 2014 16:59 Scarecrow wrote: Well if the overall player pool is declining then Masters will get a smaller allocation. Combine this with no demotions in the season and you get a lot at the end. I haven't seen the stats but I wouldn't be surprised if the lower ranks were bleeding players to LoL, and especially Diablo/HS after recent releases. I expect it may eventually become like ICCUP where ranks like gold/platinum are ultra-competitive as the casuals continue to emigrate.
The player base was actually GROWING last season compared to the one before, if I recall correctly. There was a reddit-post about it a month or two ago.
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Well I was decently placed in Master, probably had ended around 2,5K points if I had managed to be active the last two-three weeks. However, it is really no big deal to get back to masters if you get demoted. I dont see the whining - just make sure to win your games and you will be back in no time? Its not like just cause you got demoted you will play vs bad diamond players, and if you do and they beat you then actually Diamond is the place to be. I am sorry - but I dont see any problem here.
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Guys, when the player base is declining, this outcome is just natural, as the percentage of active players per league stays the same.
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On April 15 2014 20:46 Caladan wrote: Guys, when the player base is declining, this outcome is just natural, as the percentage of active players per league stays the same.
anywhere to see the actual numbers of players?
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On April 15 2014 20:14 DarkLordOlli wrote: I got to rank 1 diamond on three separate occasions with ~1500 points on both EU and NA, no promotions or anything. Got demoted on EU, still diamond on NA.
Blizzard, why D: You needed 1800/1900 points in diamond in order to get promoted (rougly).
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Bonuspool for last season was 2441 so anything below that is probably low master and will get demoted at start. If you started out in dia you got another 73 fake points so thats anything below 2514. Also if you look at nios.kr you can see that on eu we currently have 4:05% masters.. thats double the size it should be. Now masters are problably more active so that number will decrease slightly, maybe even get close to 2% but it's by no means small.
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On April 15 2014 20:58 Detri wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 20:46 Caladan wrote: Guys, when the player base is declining, this outcome is just natural, as the percentage of active players per league stays the same. anywhere to see the actual numbers of players? From nios.kr you can see amount of players who have placed in different leagues during that season. But those numbers do not take activity into account. The longer season last, the more players will join. Usually almost constant amount of players join the ladders each week after the initial rush. There has not been any considerable decrease or increase during the last seasons. But as I said those numbers do not take activity into account. It is likely that general player base is less active than e.g. half years ago.
Edit: Blizzard is having lots of problems with both their web profiles and API. Thus until the problems are fixed the numbers from this season should not be trusted.
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On April 15 2014 21:19 Incand wrote: Bonuspool for last season was 2441 so anything below that is probably low master and will get demoted at start. If you started out in dia you got another 73 fake points so thats anything below 2514. Also if you look at nios.kr you can see that on eu we currently have 4:05% masters.. thats double the size it should be. Now masters are problably more active so that number will decrease slightly, maybe even get close to 2% but it's by no means small. Adjusted points (visible ladder points minus used bonus pool) give some direction where your MMR might be (MMR can differ quite considerable from what the adjusted points suggest). For example after plenty of games having 73 adjusted points often means that your MMR is somewhere close to your league's lower border. But if you have faced decay during the season, your adjusted points are likely 'too high' compared to your actual MMR.
And yes. The most active players are usually the first to get placed during each season. In time the more inactive players will return.
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If your points + saved up bonuspool is less than the total bonuspool at the season end you are likely to get demoted.
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On April 15 2014 21:31 Fus wrote: If your points + saved up bonuspool is less than the total bonuspool at the season end you are likely to get demoted. It's kinda harsh because to be in the top100 in EU, you needed something like 2850. Being kick with 2500 might give a shock to some people.
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On April 15 2014 18:34 oGoZenob wrote: I went 15-3 last season and get demoted last night -_-
That's the problem, you only played 18 games
On the topic: This has happened to me every season, get master, get ~top 30, get demoted next season, play 10 games, back in masters, rinse and repeat.
EDIT: Yeah, took me 13 games to get back.
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Got back to masters in 11 games. I guess it's somewhat easy to go back as well?
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Don't forget ladder populations is based off percentages so until more and more people play placement games the population in leagues has to be much smaller than at the end of a league. If 10K people played on day one then 2% is not a lot of people compared to the 100k at the end of a season. Also take into account the 200 Gm that take the Masters spots
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On April 15 2014 21:41 Mahanaim wrote: Got back to masters in 11 games. I guess it's somewhat easy to go back as well?
Yes, they demote more often at the beginning of the season, but I've found it's easier to get promoted back to your former division. I got promoted at rank 10 or something, after 4 game, but was last season so I'm not sure how long it will take this time.
It's not the end of the world, but pretty damn annoying, for sure.
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On April 15 2014 21:52 Dunmer wrote: Don't forget ladder populations is based off percentages so until more and more people play placement games the population in leagues has to be much smaller than at the end of a league. If 10K people played on day one then 2% is not a lot of people compared to the 100k at the end of a season. Also take into account the 200 Gm that take the Masters spots They are not. Only GM has limited amount of slots (200) and its entry threshold is dynamic. For all other leagues entry thresholds are static MMR values set by Blizzard.
On April 15 2014 21:41 Mahanaim wrote: Got back to masters in 11 games. I guess it's somewhat easy to go back as well? It depends where you were in diamond MMR range compared to the master threshold. For example if player A was at the entry threshold last season and then went inactive for 4 weeks, then he would face max MMR decay that equals roughly 20 straight losses. Then it would require him roughly 20 straight wins to get back to master.
On April 15 2014 21:35 Amazonic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 18:34 oGoZenob wrote: I went 15-3 last season and get demoted last night -_- That's the problem, you only played 18 games On the topic: This has happened to me every season, get master, get ~top 30, get demoted next season, play 10 games, back in masters, rinse and repeat. If you were inactive for more than 4 weeks at some point last season you faced max MMR decay. 12 wins more than losses (15-3) in general case increases your MMR less than max MMR decay decreases it.
More about MMR decay: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/429734-ladder-deflation-and-mmr-decay
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My friend got demoted to Silver, but was back in Gold 1 game later. No demotions in the middle of the season is pretty silly.
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On April 15 2014 22:25 DinoMight wrote: My friend got demoted to Silver, but was back in Gold 1 game later. No demotions in the middle of the season is pretty silly. Division ranks do not matter. They are just based on your visible ladder points and how they compare to others in that division. When you get promoted you get 73 points + used bonus pool. In the start of a new season that is usually enough to get the top ranks. In reality his MMR is near the entry threshold of his league when he is promoted.
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every season people will insist there's something wrong with their league because the whole league placement system is a psychological marketing trick to play on people's egos
this will never change, nothing new to see here
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And what kind of marketing would that be, if it pisses a lot of people off?
It's also not really a "trick" but just basic human behaviour, if you give a group of people different rankings and statuses, the individuals will put in a lot of effort to improve their rank or maintain it if they are on top.
The only difference is, that in reality the rankings like "CEO" or "Member of the Board" will most likely enable you to lead a pretty carefree and pleasent life, while having the rank "Masters" or "Diamond" just means that you invested alot of time in a videogame (and you hopefully had fun doing so).
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On April 15 2014 22:50 reapsen wrote: And what kind of marketing would that be, if it pisses a lot of people off?
It's also not really a "trick" but just basic human behaviour, if you give a group of people different rankings and statuses, the individuals will put in a lot of effort to improve their rank or maintain it if they are on top.
The only difference is, that in reality the rankings like "CEO" or "Member of the Board" will most likely enable you to lead a pretty carefree and pleasent life, while having the rank "Masters" or "Diamond" just means that you invested alot of time in a videogame (and you hopefully had fun doing so). you just answered your own question with what you put in the second paragraph. people want to compete, it satisfies their egos to be able to say they advanced to a new league and have something X amount of other players don't have. it's a marketing mechanism because it's intended to keep consumer interest alive. people being pissed off is a side effect. whether they "succeeded" in motivating people more than demotivating them is a matter of opinion, but it's clearly the purpose of the ranking system
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I was gold last season and had over 400 bonus pool but i'm still gold.
I didn't play much.I had a pretty good winrate(70%,not sure if that is relevant),and I played 2-3 games per week.Maybe the system thought i was an active player.
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And what did we learn from all this? Transparent MMR is a good thing.
Blizz pliz
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Don't let it bother you, I have seen high Masters and even some GMs be placed into Diamond. Just ladder and, assuming you do alright, you'll get back where you belong.
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On April 15 2014 22:53 DifuntO wrote: I was gold last season and had over 400 bonus pool but i'm still gold.
I didn't play much.I had a pretty good winrate(70%,not sure if that is relevant),and I played 2-3 games per week.Maybe the system thought i was an active player. The MMR decay only kicks in after 2 weeks of inactivity (starts from 0 and then linearly increases). At 4 weeks mark it reaches its maximum value that equals roughly 20 losses. If you played more frequent it did not affect your direcly - only indirectly as some of your opponents had faced decay.
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Last time they did this I was top 8 master and was placed diamond. So I left league and quit SC2. Came back for this season and was placed plat lol. Suppose I can just random race back up to masters again, annoying though.
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On April 15 2014 16:52 MrMotionPicture wrote: Well since you can no longer be demoted during the season, I think they do this to reset the ladder a little and make sure everyone is where they should be. I'm sure you'll get back to master in no time :3 Blizz should put mid-season demotions back in and reduce the number of new season demotions. It's far more demoralizing to get placed down a league at the beginning of the new season than it is to get demoted during a bad run of losses in the middle of a season.
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On April 15 2014 19:22 EnPo wrote: Yeah. 2300pts masters and demoted to diamond. Takes out your fun of laddering pretty nicely, when I feel like total chobo... I'd propably get back to masters if I wanted, but I don't feel like laddering in diamond :S
Points say very little, nothing actually. Say I idle for 3 weeks everytime to get a -300 MMR decay, and just clear out my bonus pool everytime. I repeat this process until the end of the season, I'd have the points of a top masters player, but the MMR or a high diamond or so. (This is just an extreme example).
What happened is:
At the start of the previous season the MMR treshold to get a masters promotion was 1320 MMR. At the start of the current season, the MMR tresold to get a masters promotion is 1520 MMR, which used to be mid masters.
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Bisutopia19042 Posts
I guess I need to wait for all you pros to go up a few leagues before I start laddering.
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On April 15 2014 23:20 kaluro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 19:22 EnPo wrote: Yeah. 2300pts masters and demoted to diamond. Takes out your fun of laddering pretty nicely, when I feel like total chobo... I'd propably get back to masters if I wanted, but I don't feel like laddering in diamond :S Points say very little, nothing actually. Say I idle for 3 weeks everytime to get a -300 MMR decay, and just clear out my bonus pool everytime. I repeat this process until the end of the season, I'd have the points of a top masters player, but the MMR or a high diamond or so. (This is just an extreme example). It maxes out at 4 weeks marker.
On April 15 2014 23:20 kaluro wrote: What happened is:
At the start of the previous season the MMR treshold to get a masters promotion was 1320 MMR. At the start of the current season, the MMR tresold to get a masters promotion is 1520 MMR, which used to be mid masters.
The offsets changed few days after last season started. Those numbers are not directly comparable. Actually the relative master threshold remained the same, but everything else was lowered. The current diamond range begins relatively from old high gold range. Diamond league's MMR range almost doubled. But the decay still pushes general population downwards... It is interesting to see if Blizzard does another 'smoke and mirrors fix' in the future (they only changed offsets/thresholds, not fixed the causes for the problem) .
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its normal and known since last season because no demote in the seaon, there are 90% demotes AFTER season but you can easy go back
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On April 15 2014 23:06 mvdunecats wrote: Blizz should put mid-season demotions back in and reduce the number of new season demotions. It's far more demoralizing to get placed down a league at the beginning of the new season than it is to get demoted during a bad run of losses in the middle of a season. I assume it is to fight ladder anxiety. If you can't be demoted, there would be no reason to be fightened to loose more than your rank in your divison (-> no league downgrading visible in profile). Also, I assume you have a higher chance in being promoted to a higher league that you wouldn't normally reach with that system. So, people that are "stuck" in their league forever might be able to enter the higher league in one season with a lot of luck & playing a lot early season before the normally higher, but demoted guys re-enter their skill-level leagues. But that's just speculation on my side.
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On April 15 2014 19:02 CoraBlue wrote: I can't speak to masters, because I'm not that good, but I am also frustrated. I ended the season at bottom of plat, won my placement match, and got placed in silver. Its not a big deal because I'm going to roll kids, its just annoying and destroys my enthusiasm to play.
Then what about the Silver players that gets destroyed by you and have there enthusiasm crashed, pretty sure it hurts more to lose hard than win easy.
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On April 15 2014 23:49 Raziers wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 19:02 CoraBlue wrote: I can't speak to masters, because I'm not that good, but I am also frustrated. I ended the season at bottom of plat, won my placement match, and got placed in silver. Its not a big deal because I'm going to roll kids, its just annoying and destroys my enthusiasm to play. Then what about the Silver players that gets destroyed by you and have there enthusiasm crashed, pretty sure it hurts more to lose hard than win easy.
That even doesent matter. If his mmr dropped to silver he might not just roll over them. He is equally skilled as them.
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On April 15 2014 19:22 EnPo wrote: Yeah. 2300pts masters and demoted to diamond. Takes out your fun of laddering pretty nicely, when I feel like total chobo... I'd propably get back to masters if I wanted, but I don't feel like laddering in diamond :S
Also got demoted to diamond from master played 4 games ( 2 lost, 2 won) and got back to masters. Play few games you will be back in masters...
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So much crying about being demoted...
If you think you deserve to be in a higher league, play some damn ladder games and prove it...
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I lost my placement match to cannon rush into mass carrier on Alterzim ended up back in Bronze. Two PvPs later back in Silver, was half expecting the long slog of ladder purgatory that is Bronze to be quite honest. So yeah, looks like things are slowly getting back to where they should be.
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1. "Seasons" are pointless. 2. MMR decay, as implemented, is idiotic. 3. The lack of mid-season demotions is bad because it results in mass new season demotion ( which is demoralizing). 4. MMR should be displayed.
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On April 15 2014 23:20 BisuDagger wrote: I guess I need to wait for all you pros to go up a few leagues before I start laddering.
Didn't figure you to be a SC2 kind of guy.
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Much prefer this system compared to risking getting demoted in the mid of a season. It's comforting to know I don't risky dropping down to dia even if I got an insane loss streak. I can try out new playstyles and lose and know I be fine just getting a few wins against before season ends
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Was rank 4 diamond with somewhere around 1900points and got denoted to GOLD after winning my placement match! I didn't play for about a week before ladders locked and only unranked when it was locked.
I went 13-0 and finally got promoted to Plat, but so upset about it.
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Seeing the claims in here about people getting demoted in the 2300-2500 point range makes me wonder why I didn't get demoted. I would have finished the season at ~2400 points if you added bonus pool directly to my points and ontop of that I was inactive for 6-7 straight weeks. I did go on a small win-streak the last week before season end, because I realised I would have to play to avoid demotion, but it wasn't enough to offset the decay my MMR must have suffered from inactivity.
I just wish Blizzard would display my MMR, don't care if it is privately or publically displayed, would be so much more useful than some arbitrary rank in your division!
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On April 16 2014 00:04 NKexquisite wrote: So much crying about being demoted...
If you think you deserve to be in a higher league, play some damn ladder games and prove it... Kinda with you on this. The ranking has as much meaning as you are willing to give it. Getting demoted only means you have a quick level up early this season. Or you are now in the league you belong in.
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Bisutopia19042 Posts
On April 16 2014 00:32 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 23:20 BisuDagger wrote: I guess I need to wait for all you pros to go up a few leagues before I start laddering. Didn't figure you to be a SC2 kind of guy. I've been supporting sc2 since the first gsl. Bought a year pass in 2011. Stopped paying for sc2 when blizzard ruined wings in 2012. I'd be more active with proleague if it didn't run during my work hours! I miss 2-3 am SPL! So while I still follow all sc2 I dedicate energy to sc1. But my goal is to ladder in both sc1 and 2 start of May xD. I really want sc2 to be a great game and still grasp to some hope for LotV.
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Why do people care so much about league placement?
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On April 16 2014 02:03 ReMinD_ wrote: Why do people care so much about league placement? Idk, I'm actually in shock of what some people here are saying. Last season I was put into gold. GOLD. I used to be a masters player. I didn't care though, played my way back to diamond, and now I'm back to plat. For all I care, I could get demoted to silver mid season and it wouldn't make a difference to me.
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On April 16 2014 01:56 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 00:32 Ctone23 wrote:On April 15 2014 23:20 BisuDagger wrote: I guess I need to wait for all you pros to go up a few leagues before I start laddering. Didn't figure you to be a SC2 kind of guy. I've been supporting sc2 since the first gsl. Bought a year pass in 2011. Stopped paying for sc2 when blizzard ruined wings in 2012. I'd be more active with proleague if it didn't run during my work hours! I miss 2-3 am SPL! So while I still follow all sc2 I dedicate energy to sc1. But my goal is to ladder in both sc1 and 2 start of May xD. I really want sc2 to be a great game and still grasp to some hope for LotV.
Oh that's cool. Good luck to you then!
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On April 16 2014 02:03 ReMinD_ wrote: Why do people care so much about league placement? For the same reason that people whine about their MMR in dota 2, people hate being told they might not be as good at they througt they were. In some ways, the number after the game is more important than the game itself, to them.
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My goal was to get into Masters last season I couldnt and I was doing acceptable/good for diamond...I was top8-15 most of the time, I took a free week during season lock, came back to this new season(yesterday) and.... DEMOTED to platinum? wtf, I played few games(some games vs GOLD players wtf) but I was so demotivated that the last game I just alt-f4(because of so many mistakes) and dont think im gonna come back again(till something magical happens), thank you so much Blizzard.
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Canada13372 Posts
On April 16 2014 02:19 JamazVu wrote: My goal was to get into Masters last season I couldnt and I was doing acceptable/good for diamond...I was top8-15 most of the time, I took a free week during season lock, came back to this new season(yesterday) and.... DEMOTED to platinum? wtf, I played few games(some games vs GOLD players wtf) but I was so demotivated that the last game I just alt-f4(because of so many mistakes) and dont think im gonna come back again(till something magical happens), thank you so much Blizzard.
if yuo had to alt f4 because of so many mistakes vs gold players, then its not blizzard at fault, its your play.
We need more mid season demotions so that people who should be demoted mid season dont just complain at the end of the season. You were probably playing with other people who should have been demoted to plat or something and werent yet, so you didnt know you were playing at plat level.
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^Yeah it's Blizzards fault you aren't good enough to stay in diamond.
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On April 16 2014 01:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 00:04 NKexquisite wrote: So much crying about being demoted...
If you think you deserve to be in a higher league, play some damn ladder games and prove it... Kinda with you on this. The ranking has as much meaning as you are willing to give it. Getting demoted only means you have a quick level up early this season. Or you are now in the league you belong in.
if you played some Hots you know about mmr decay and how it sucks to have to crush ppl 20 times in a row before meeting players of your caliber.
and it sucks for the lower league guys who get stomped too.
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On April 15 2014 23:46 Ahli wrote: Also, I assume you have a higher chance in being promoted to a higher league that you wouldn't normally reach with that system. So, people that are "stuck" in their league forever might be able to enter the higher league in one season with a lot of luck & playing a lot early season before the normally higher, but demoted guys re-enter their skill-level leagues. But that's just speculation on my side. I wouldn't assume that. Even though you can't get demoted mid-season, your MMR will go down as the result of losses. To get promoted up another league, you would need to raise your MMR sufficiently so that you would either not be in danger of a mid-season demotion or you would simply get re-promoted to your previous league after a mid-season demotion. For example, lets say a Gold league player had a bad slump and his MMR drops low enough that he probably should be dropped to Silver. He won't get promoted to Plat until his MMR rises high enough that he would be at Gold league level. Being prevented from dropping to Silver doesn't make it more likely for that player to work his way up to Plat.
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Isn't getting demoted better overall? You'll start playing vs "weaker" opponents, that should help a little in the MMR department and if you're consistent you should go back to where you were before with a slightly higher MMR.
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yea i dont know whats up i had a 90%w/r in tvt 70 in tvz and 65 in tvp in diamond playing masters and and won placement vs masters still diamond. also my offrace account was playing diamonds and got demoted to gold wtf.
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On April 16 2014 03:02 Shousan wrote: Isn't getting demoted better overall? You'll start playing vs "weaker" opponents, that should help a little in the MMR department and if you're consistent you should go back to where you were before with a slightly higher MMR.
I think it's more of the cycle that the players are going through each season. Lets say they start in Gold, play hard and get a promotion to plat, and end the season in top 8 Platinum. The next season starts... back in Gold again.
It really boils down to how much stock you put into what your league is. Some people don't mind, and prefer to play vs weaker opponents, as you said, for the mmr help, but others view it as demoralizing, and some even state they lose desire to play. My experience was that it took about 4-5 games to get promoted back to my league, so hopefully people will get over the disappointment and just ladder.
Simply put, you can't please everyone.
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On April 16 2014 02:22 Faust852 wrote: ^Yeah it's Blizzards fault you aren't good enough to stay in diamond. Actually in many cases it sort of is. There is no skill involved if you are 4 weeks inactive and then Blizzard punishes you with decay that roughly equals 20 losses. MMR decay has messed up the ladder as players MMRs are artificially manipulated (decreased). MMR in many cases is not anymore indicative of skill. This has been a long process as it started already when HotS was released. People who get decayed often do not play enough to compensate the decay. And then decay even more. Their skill does not deteriorate in same pace. As a result there are wildly different skilled players in lower leagues . And the general MMR levels keep steadily decreasing.
For example if you win 19 matches a row (19w-0l) and then go inactive for 4 weeks. As a result your MMR did not increase but the opposite. In typical case it slightly decreased as those 19 straight wins were not enough to compensate max decay that roughly equals 20 loses. 20 straight loses usually drop your MMR more than one league range (exception MMR ranges of both diamond and master are larger).
On April 16 2014 03:02 Shousan wrote: Isn't getting demoted better overall? You'll start playing vs "weaker" opponents, that should help a little in the MMR department and if you're consistent you should go back to where you were before with a slightly higher MMR. People activate in the beginning of each season. If you have faced decay you can be sure that you will be matched against others who have faced decay too. Blizzard's aim was that you would be matched against clearly weaker opponents to get easier wins. But if you are facing lots of other decayed players who are at similar skill level or even better than you, you will not necessarily win that much. With a 60% winrate it would take roughly 100 matches (60w-40l) to get back to your pre-decay MMR. Many do not even play that many matches in a season.
Of course if you skill-wise belong to top echelon of players it is easier to get up. There were less equally skilled or better players to begin with. Thus it is not so hard to keep high winrate when grinding back up. Yes grinding - It takes lots of matches for MMR to rise unless you have a fresh account.
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It seems that demotion has no affect to your MMR. So you have the MMR, but not the rank. You play exactly the same opponents as before, only that ether you or they are fooled by your displayed rank. And you play 1-5 games and your rank is back to what it was before. What is the point of this? Only thing I can think off is that as a side effect of the no demotion thing that blizzard has going on, blizzard has decided to demote half the active ladder players. Why is Blizzard so afraid of simply promoting and demoting people according to their current MMR? None of this no demotion, wait till Blizzard is certain of your MMR crap that makes it so some players have lower league but higher MMR.
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On April 16 2014 03:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It seems that demotion has no affect to your MMR. So you have the MMR, but not the rank. You play exactly the same opponents as before, only that ether you or they are fooled by your displayed rank. And you play 1-5 games and your rank is back to what it was before. What is the point of this? Only thing I can think off is that as a side effect of the no demotion thing that blizzard has going on, blizzard has decided to demote half the active ladder players. Why is Blizzard so afraid of simply promoting and demoting people according to their current MMR? None of this no demotion, wait till Blizzard is certain of your MMR crap that makes it so some players have lower league but higher MMR. No. The league you are placed in reflects your MMR. If you are placed e.g. in gold, then your MMR at that moment was in gold league range. And when you cross the league threshold you are pretty much immediately promoted. Exception to this are fresh accounts that are placed lower than their actual MMR is but at the 25th match (If they win as you can only be promoted with a win), they are promoted to their actual league at the latest.
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From master to diamond once again ahahaahah !
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@korona, it's kind of the player fault not playing enough and getting demoted then, If you are aware if the MMR decay, try to play at least every 2 weeks. If you don't play at all, don't cry because you have to win 20 times to get where you were before, 20 wins is nothing, it's achievable in one day if you are decided to and it also meant you weren't that good in the said league if it take only 20 loss to get demoted too.
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I got demoted. Not a big deal. Was kinda expecting it. I am already playing people in my old league again so I should be back quickly.
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On April 16 2014 03:33 Faust852 wrote: @korona, it's kind of the player fault not playing enough and getting demoted then, If you are aware if the MMR decay, try to play at least every 2 weeks. If you don't play at all, don't cry because you have to win 20 times to get where you were before, 20 wins is nothing, it's achievable in one day if you are decided to and it also meant you weren't that good in the said league if it take only 20 loss to get demoted too. Remember also that most of the player base likely does not know about MMR decay or how to prevent it. TL:s are amongst the minority and even in this thread many seem not to understand. And it is not winning 20 games. It is winning 20 games more than losing.
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I can understand both sides of the spectrum.
Many players enjoy seeing growth in their play - which is only tangibly revealed through League and Rank. When for no apparent reason they are demoted, its demoralizing. I dropped from high Diamond to GOLD, and I played actively (~300 games). Now I have to waste my time playing scrubs to get back to where I was less than two days ago. It's frustrating.
But I can see why people are annoyed by the whine. I guess the solution is playing more and proving I am that skill level, but when I run into people with the same problem in Plat who are also Diamond and sometimes Master, and I lose to a shitty all-in, it ruins my MMR and gets me stuck.
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On April 16 2014 03:02 Shousan wrote: Isn't getting demoted better overall? You'll start playing vs "weaker" opponents, that should help a little in the MMR department and if you're consistent you should go back to where you were before with a slightly higher MMR. The problem is that you have the same MMR that you did before the new season started. So you're playing against the same caliber of players that you were at the end of the previous season.
And if your MMR was toward the lower range of your league and you got demoted to start the season, the other players who were close to your MMR probably suffered the same fate. It might look like you're playing weaker opponents, but it's probably not the case.
The only time you're likely to actually be playing weaker opponents is if you had a long enough period of inactivity at the end of last season that your MMR decayed. But that can happen in the middle of the season as well, and isn't based on your league.
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On April 16 2014 03:18 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 03:02 Shousan wrote: Isn't getting demoted better overall? You'll start playing vs "weaker" opponents, that should help a little in the MMR department and if you're consistent you should go back to where you were before with a slightly higher MMR. I think it's more of the cycle that the players are going through each season. Lets say they start in Gold, play hard and get a promotion to plat, and end the season in top 8 Platinum. The next season starts... back in Gold again. It really boils down to how much stock you put into what your league is. Some people don't mind, and prefer to play vs weaker opponents, as you said, for the mmr help, but others view it as demoralizing, and some even state they lose desire to play. My experience was that it took about 4-5 games to get promoted back to my league, so hopefully people will get over the disappointment and just ladder. Simply put, you can't please everyone.
On April 16 2014 03:21 korona wrote: People activate in the beginning of each season. If you have faced decay you can be sure that you will be matched against others who have faced decay too. Blizzard's aim was that you would be matched against clearly weaker opponents to get easier wins. But if you are facing lots of other decayed players who are at similar skill level or even better than you, you will not necessarily win that much. With a 60% winrate it would take roughly 100 matches (60w-40l) to get back to your pre-decay MMR. Many do not even play that many matches in a season.
Of course if you skill-wise belong to top echelon of players it is easier to get up. There were less equally skilled or better players to begin with. Thus it is not so hard to keep high winrate when grinding back up. Yes grinding - It takes lots of matches for MMR to rise unless you have a fresh account.
I see what you guys mean, on one hand, the fact that you've worked hard to get promoted during last season only to get back by next season could be demoralizing, and also, you'll be facing many players in a similar scenario due to demotions instead of weaker players, so it's not a considerable boost on MMR either.
After giving it some thought, I still think it's not a big deal at all because they got rid of demotions mid season. Meaning that by the end of last season, they were many many players in a league "above" their actual level, so if you're a top player on your league and got demoted, you'll be facing mostly these other players, making it relatively easy to get promoted again (like some players mentioned in this thread, between 5-15 games to get back) but if you're not a top player on your league and got demoted, then that's just your new level, it might feel demoralizing, but it shouldn't. People will always trick themselves into thinking they're better than what they actually are (not just in SC2, this holds true in everything), and that's why this system feels "unfair" and lead to not wanting to play, but just because it gives you a reality check on how your play and others changed throughout 3 months doesn't mean it's not accurate. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter, just forget about your avatar border and focus on having fun. This is a game, people. Enjoy it.
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On April 16 2014 02:19 JamazVu wrote: My goal was to get into Masters last season I couldnt and I was doing acceptable/good for diamond...I was top8-15 most of the time, I took a free week during season lock, came back to this new season(yesterday) and.... DEMOTED to platinum? wtf, I played few games(some games vs GOLD players wtf) but I was so demotivated that the last game I just alt-f4(because of so many mistakes) and dont think im gonna come back again(till something magical happens), thank you so much Blizzard.
you quit a game because of standings? shiny colors mean that much to you? i was not gm last season but i still got masters after my placement match. im not trying to brag either, ive been demoted many times, and i always realize its when im playing bad and losing to people i should be. even if you are playing golds/platinums, what makes you think they are not in the same boat as you? in that they believe that they are dia/masters players themselves, and their skill level is actually quite similar to yours..
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On April 16 2014 02:43 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 01:20 Plansix wrote:On April 16 2014 00:04 NKexquisite wrote: So much crying about being demoted...
If you think you deserve to be in a higher league, play some damn ladder games and prove it... Kinda with you on this. The ranking has as much meaning as you are willing to give it. Getting demoted only means you have a quick level up early this season. Or you are now in the league you belong in. if you played some Hots you know about mmr decay and how it sucks to have to crush ppl 20 times in a row before meeting players of your caliber. and it sucks for the lower league guys who get stomped too.
Gotta agree with this sentiment. In WoL 4v4 I was top8 Masters (single queue) for 6 seasons then stopped playing for like 8 months. When I came back I was stuck in bronze. I played 10 games facerolling opponents and I'm still in bronze. In the team games its extra bad because not only do team games take longer in general but also I am pretty much wasting 7 other people's time. I mean my APM is consistently double to triple that of the other players, theres no reason I should have fallen all the way down to bronze...
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yeah. demoted to masters. oh w8.
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On April 16 2014 03:31 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 03:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It seems that demotion has no affect to your MMR. So you have the MMR, but not the rank. You play exactly the same opponents as before, only that ether you or they are fooled by your displayed rank. And you play 1-5 games and your rank is back to what it was before. What is the point of this? Only thing I can think off is that as a side effect of the no demotion thing that blizzard has going on, blizzard has decided to demote half the active ladder players. Why is Blizzard so afraid of simply promoting and demoting people according to their current MMR? None of this no demotion, wait till Blizzard is certain of your MMR crap that makes it so some players have lower league but higher MMR. No. The league you are placed in reflects your MMR. If you are placed e.g. in gold, then your MMR at that moment was in gold league range. And when you cross the league threshold you are pretty much immediately promoted. Exception to this are fresh accounts that are placed lower than their actual MMR is but at the 25th match (If they win as you can only be promoted with a win), they are promoted to their actual league at the latest. Anecdotal evidence of the sheer number of people being demoted, only to shortly be promoted back in 5 games or less suggest that MMR and league you are placed in after the first placement game is no longer true. Also, Blizzard waits till MMR is stabilised, meaning that normally it is impossible to bounce between leagues, also meaning that it is possible for your MMR to be at a different league, and that the leagues appear to have a lot of overlap depending on what division you are in (don't ask my why Blizzard does this). Yeah, so the league you are placed in has never accurately reflected MMR, and the strange demotion mechanic that Blizzard has going on makes it even worse.
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On April 16 2014 03:44 Shousan wrote:
After giving it some thought, I still think it's not a big deal at all because they got rid of demotions mid season. Meaning that by the end of last season, they were many many players in a league "above" their actual level, so if you're a top player on your league and got demoted, you'll be facing mostly these other players, making it relatively easy to get promoted again (like some players mentioned in this thread, between 5-15 games to get back) but if you're not a top player on your league and got demoted, then that's just your new level, it might feel demoralizing, but it shouldn't. People will always trick themselves into thinking they're better than what they actually are (not just in SC2, this holds true in everything), and that's why this system feels "unfair" and lead to not wanting to play, but just because it gives you a reality check on how your play and others changed throughout 3 months doesn't mean it's not accurate. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter, just forget about your avatar border and focus on having fun. This is a game, people. Enjoy it.
What you quoted of me was my general view of how I see other players handling the situation. I personally have gotten back to my normal league, and with working all the time, I couldn't care less that I am not in a higher division. The game is hard enough as it is, why would I want to struggle more than I already do, just for the sake of a higher division?
I don't really understand why people become so obsessed with getting into diamond, master, etc. Maybe that is just my general nature though, who knows xD. I still think it's frustrating to get demoted at the beginning of the season, I think that's bad business as I can see some people leaving the ladder system. People are going to quit the game anyhow. Almost all games in the market now have players leaving all the time, so it really isn't that big of a deal. Just something to bitch about I suppose.
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The same arguments were made for getting demoted mid season. People said they didn't play because they feared losing and getting demoted.
At the end of the day, there is nothing Blizzard can do for people who are afraid of getting demoted or who get upst when it happens. If they showed you your MMR like in dota, it just wouldn't move because MMR doesn't change that much. But then people would complain about having no sense of advancement.
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Just got back into diamond after less than 10 games. Just play people, stop crying.
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i see some ppl say its the mmr decay.. yeh i had 700 games last season! hell yeah its the mmr decay
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and played 40 games, stil dia!
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On April 16 2014 05:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 03:31 korona wrote:On April 16 2014 03:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It seems that demotion has no affect to your MMR. So you have the MMR, but not the rank. You play exactly the same opponents as before, only that ether you or they are fooled by your displayed rank. And you play 1-5 games and your rank is back to what it was before. What is the point of this? Only thing I can think off is that as a side effect of the no demotion thing that blizzard has going on, blizzard has decided to demote half the active ladder players. Why is Blizzard so afraid of simply promoting and demoting people according to their current MMR? None of this no demotion, wait till Blizzard is certain of your MMR crap that makes it so some players have lower league but higher MMR. No. The league you are placed in reflects your MMR. If you are placed e.g. in gold, then your MMR at that moment was in gold league range. And when you cross the league threshold you are pretty much immediately promoted. Exception to this are fresh accounts that are placed lower than their actual MMR is but at the 25th match (If they win as you can only be promoted with a win), they are promoted to their actual league at the latest. Anecdotal evidence of the sheer number of people being demoted, only to shortly be promoted back in 5 games or less suggest that MMR and league you are placed in after the first placement game is no longer true. Also, Blizzard waits till MMR is stabilised, meaning that normally it is impossible to bounce between leagues, also meaning that it is possible for your MMR to be at a different league, and that the leagues appear to have a lot of overlap depending on what division you are in (don't ask my why Blizzard does this). Yeah, so the league you are placed in has never accurately reflected MMR, and the strange demotion mechanic that Blizzard has going on makes it even worse. Incorrect. After the placement match you are placed in a league that reflects your MMR at that moment (fresh accounts that start from blank MMR are exceptions to this rule as they are placed conservatively). Also you might not know that I have been the main developer of the MMR tool for more than a year. I do have access to plenty of hard data to back up what I am saying.
And regarding promotions after the placement match: During the WoL era Blizzard clearly used some kind of MMR moving average regarding the promotions (stabilization period, exact formulas have never been revealed). But after HotS was released the character accounts have been promoted pretty much immediately when they cross the thresholds. But also during the WoL era it was possible to get immediately promoted one match after the placement match if you crossed the threshold.
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I'm well beyond my Masters WoL glory days. Got demoted to Gold from Plat (damn PvT), got back to plat after 5 games. Go figure...
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Can't wait to ladder during the summer... haven't played since early January, and was diamond then. Yay
Can we agree at least that, these days, diamond is at least a somewhat respectable ranking? Back in the day it was "masters (sometimes with a specific rank ie top 8) or gtfo, but now I'm not sure if that is really fair
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On April 15 2014 23:36 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 23:20 kaluro wrote: What happened is:
At the start of the previous season the MMR treshold to get a masters promotion was 1320 MMR. At the start of the current season, the MMR tresold to get a masters promotion is 1520 MMR, which used to be mid masters.
The offsets changed few days after last season started. Those numbers are not directly comparable. Actually the relative master threshold remained the same, but everything else was lowered. The current diamond range begins relatively from old high gold range. Diamond league's MMR range almost doubled. But the decay still pushes general population downwards... It is interesting to see if Blizzard does another 'smoke and mirrors fix' in the future (they only changed offsets/thresholds, not fixed the causes for the problem) .
This is correct, but it also means that people who started playing last season, got into masters where they otherwise would've gotten into diamond. Since there are no mid season demotions, they got into diamond this season.
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On April 16 2014 05:41 kaluro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 23:36 korona wrote:
The offsets changed few days after last season started. Those numbers are not directly comparable. Actually the relative master threshold remained the same, but everything else was lowered. The current diamond range begins relatively from old high gold range. Diamond league's MMR range almost doubled. But the decay still pushes general population downwards... It is interesting to see if Blizzard does another 'smoke and mirrors fix' in the future (they only changed offsets/thresholds, not fixed the causes for the problem) . This is correct, but it also means that people who started playing last season, got into masters where they otherwise would've gotten into diamond. Since there are no mid season demotions, they got into diamond this season. There was no relative change to the master threshold (no increase regarding master promotions). People who were in high diamond MMR range before the offset change remained in high diamond range. But people who were upwards from high gold (near old gold-plat threshold) were promoted to diamond. The diamond range increased considerably.
The numbers set in the MMR tool are not directly comparable. The old 1360 master threshold is relatively the same as current 1515 master threshold.
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yeah, ladder is surely harder now. I havent got master player for games and earlier it was rarety to get diamond.
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i was gm sunday and got demoted to masters on monday guys. I can relate.
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On April 16 2014 05:37 Chocolate wrote: Can't wait to ladder during the summer... haven't played since early January, and was diamond then. Yay
Can we agree at least that, these days, diamond is at least a somewhat respectable ranking? Back in the day it was "masters (sometimes with a specific rank ie top 8) or gtfo, but now I'm not sure if that is really fair
A high diamond today is probably better than a high master 10 months ago.
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Northern Ireland20806 Posts
...'because the whole league placement system is a psychological marketing trick to play on people's egos'
Not sure if this was a serious or tongue-in-cheek point but I do feel the ladder system is flawed as fuck, with its overinflation of masters, then pulling it back with the MMR decay, removing demotions, at one point removing the losses displayed etc.
Leagues are to me a big contributor to the infamous ladder anxiety, not any kind of mitigating factor. Personally I'd rather see a return to something similar to the WC3 system, with a cumulative level that you have to be active to prevent decaying, allied to an actual visible indicator of your MMR with little to no decay within short periods of time.
I'm not particularly good atm not going to lie. but myself and other people who are snowed under with the trials and tribulations of the world outside of Starcraft atm struggle to know where we actually are currently at skill wise.
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I was 72-16 on EU WoL and also about 71-15 on NA WoL, one placement match that I lost due to cheese and... diamond league. The ladder is once again random.
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On April 16 2014 05:29 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: I'm well beyond my Masters WoL glory days. Got demoted to Gold from Plat (damn PvT), got back to plat after 5 games. Go figure...
Back then the top 10% or so was in masters but nowdays it's like 2% including GM and there used to be many more "casual" players in the lower leagues who aren't as numerous today meaning that former mid-top players will get shifted down.
I do wish blizzard would remove these arbitrary leagues though and just put a flat top 2% on the ladder is masters with the next 18% being masters and so on so we don't have this mess.
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Last season, I got kicked out of GM due to bonus pool. I was only inactive for 3 weeks, but when I played my placement match, to get replaced in a league, I won and got placed into Diamond, lol.
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2400 pts masters and got demoted to diamond aswell... I didn't even think I was close to diamond mmr...
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On April 16 2014 06:15 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 05:37 Chocolate wrote: Can't wait to ladder during the summer... haven't played since early January, and was diamond then. Yay
Can we agree at least that, these days, diamond is at least a somewhat respectable ranking? Back in the day it was "masters (sometimes with a specific rank ie top 8) or gtfo, but now I'm not sure if that is really fair A high diamond today is probably better than a high master 10 months ago.
Not really sure about that tbh. If you said 2 years, certainly but if I take my case as an exemple, I didn't play that much on hots, I think I got worst since the end of WoL (my APM dropped from ~150 to ~100) and i'm still usually toping the top8 master every season I play seriously.
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On April 16 2014 05:23 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 05:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On April 16 2014 03:31 korona wrote:On April 16 2014 03:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It seems that demotion has no affect to your MMR. So you have the MMR, but not the rank. You play exactly the same opponents as before, only that ether you or they are fooled by your displayed rank. And you play 1-5 games and your rank is back to what it was before. What is the point of this? Only thing I can think off is that as a side effect of the no demotion thing that blizzard has going on, blizzard has decided to demote half the active ladder players. Why is Blizzard so afraid of simply promoting and demoting people according to their current MMR? None of this no demotion, wait till Blizzard is certain of your MMR crap that makes it so some players have lower league but higher MMR. No. The league you are placed in reflects your MMR. If you are placed e.g. in gold, then your MMR at that moment was in gold league range. And when you cross the league threshold you are pretty much immediately promoted. Exception to this are fresh accounts that are placed lower than their actual MMR is but at the 25th match (If they win as you can only be promoted with a win), they are promoted to their actual league at the latest. Anecdotal evidence of the sheer number of people being demoted, only to shortly be promoted back in 5 games or less suggest that MMR and league you are placed in after the first placement game is no longer true. Also, Blizzard waits till MMR is stabilised, meaning that normally it is impossible to bounce between leagues, also meaning that it is possible for your MMR to be at a different league, and that the leagues appear to have a lot of overlap depending on what division you are in (don't ask my why Blizzard does this). Yeah, so the league you are placed in has never accurately reflected MMR, and the strange demotion mechanic that Blizzard has going on makes it even worse. Incorrect. After the placement match you are placed in a league that reflects your MMR at that moment (fresh accounts that start from blank MMR are exceptions to this rule as they are placed conservatively). Also you might not know that I have been the main developer of the MMR tool for more than a year. I do have access to plenty of hard data to back up what I am saying. And regarding promotions after the placement match: During the WoL era Blizzard clearly used some kind of MMR moving average regarding the promotions (stabilization period, exact formulas have never been revealed). But after HotS was released the character accounts have been promoted pretty much immediately when they cross the thresholds. But also during the WoL era it was possible to get immediately promoted one match after the placement match if you crossed the threshold. Or you know, maybe just maybe you don't have the monopoly on just how Blizzard ladder operates. Blizzard can change whatever they like without telling anyone, and that is exactly what they do. There is a lot of people mysteriously being demoted, only to be promoted shortly afterwards. it could be anything causing this effect, but you have fixed assumptions. a So it's fairly clear that league you are in does not reflect your MMR. Like seriously, you can't even be demoted. I think that's a serious case of league not representing the MMR. You really can't argue otherwise.
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On April 16 2014 06:55 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 06:15 Hider wrote:On April 16 2014 05:37 Chocolate wrote: Can't wait to ladder during the summer... haven't played since early January, and was diamond then. Yay
Can we agree at least that, these days, diamond is at least a somewhat respectable ranking? Back in the day it was "masters (sometimes with a specific rank ie top 8) or gtfo, but now I'm not sure if that is really fair A high diamond today is probably better than a high master 10 months ago. Not really sure about that tbh. If you said 2 years, certainly but if I take my case as an exemple, I didn't play that much on hots, I think I got worst since the end of WoL (my APM dropped from ~150 to ~100) and i'm still usually toping the top8 master every season I play seriously.
I remember being top top1000 master early HOTS, which I would consider being high master since there was around 6k players in master league back then.
I am in multiple ways a better player today, however "just" in top diamond - though I haven't played alot of games and suffered from a lot of decay, however, getting back into master is definitely not easy.
Point is this - If you a top 10% diamond player could go back in time and battle against a top 10% master player 10 months ago --> Diamond player of today would IMO win.
Master league 2 years ago = plat today or something like this. 3 years ago = Silver/Gold.
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On April 16 2014 07:11 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 06:55 Faust852 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 Hider wrote:On April 16 2014 05:37 Chocolate wrote: Can't wait to ladder during the summer... haven't played since early January, and was diamond then. Yay
Can we agree at least that, these days, diamond is at least a somewhat respectable ranking? Back in the day it was "masters (sometimes with a specific rank ie top 8) or gtfo, but now I'm not sure if that is really fair A high diamond today is probably better than a high master 10 months ago. Not really sure about that tbh. If you said 2 years, certainly but if I take my case as an exemple, I didn't play that much on hots, I think I got worst since the end of WoL (my APM dropped from ~150 to ~100) and i'm still usually toping the top8 master every season I play seriously. I remember being top top1000 master early HOTS, which I would consider being high master since there was around 6k players in master league back then. I am in multiple ways a better player today, however "just" in top diamond - though I haven't played alot of games and suffered from a lot of decay, however, getting back into master is definitely not easy. Point is this - If you a top 10% diamond player could go back in time and battle against a top 10% master player 10 months ago --> Diamond player of today would IMO win. Master league 2 years ago = plat today or something like this. 3 years ago = Silver/Gold.
However, at the begining of hots everyone could be master since there was a bug and over 8% of the player pool was in master league. Now there is already over 1k master and it represents only 2%, with a lot of people being demoted this season.
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considering i averaged <10 games a season, i knew it was bound to happen eventually
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On April 16 2014 07:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 05:23 korona wrote:On April 16 2014 05:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On April 16 2014 03:31 korona wrote:On April 16 2014 03:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It seems that demotion has no affect to your MMR. So you have the MMR, but not the rank. You play exactly the same opponents as before, only that ether you or they are fooled by your displayed rank. And you play 1-5 games and your rank is back to what it was before. What is the point of this? Only thing I can think off is that as a side effect of the no demotion thing that blizzard has going on, blizzard has decided to demote half the active ladder players. Why is Blizzard so afraid of simply promoting and demoting people according to their current MMR? None of this no demotion, wait till Blizzard is certain of your MMR crap that makes it so some players have lower league but higher MMR. No. The league you are placed in reflects your MMR. If you are placed e.g. in gold, then your MMR at that moment was in gold league range. And when you cross the league threshold you are pretty much immediately promoted. Exception to this are fresh accounts that are placed lower than their actual MMR is but at the 25th match (If they win as you can only be promoted with a win), they are promoted to their actual league at the latest. Anecdotal evidence of the sheer number of people being demoted, only to shortly be promoted back in 5 games or less suggest that MMR and league you are placed in after the first placement game is no longer true. Also, Blizzard waits till MMR is stabilised, meaning that normally it is impossible to bounce between leagues, also meaning that it is possible for your MMR to be at a different league, and that the leagues appear to have a lot of overlap depending on what division you are in (don't ask my why Blizzard does this). Yeah, so the league you are placed in has never accurately reflected MMR, and the strange demotion mechanic that Blizzard has going on makes it even worse. Incorrect. After the placement match you are placed in a league that reflects your MMR at that moment (fresh accounts that start from blank MMR are exceptions to this rule as they are placed conservatively). Also you might not know that I have been the main developer of the MMR tool for more than a year. I do have access to plenty of hard data to back up what I am saying. And regarding promotions after the placement match: During the WoL era Blizzard clearly used some kind of MMR moving average regarding the promotions (stabilization period, exact formulas have never been revealed). But after HotS was released the character accounts have been promoted pretty much immediately when they cross the thresholds. But also during the WoL era it was possible to get immediately promoted one match after the placement match if you crossed the threshold. Or you know, maybe just maybe you don't have the monopoly on just how Blizzard ladder operates. Blizzard can change whatever they like without telling anyone, and that is exactly what they do. There is a lot of people mysteriously being demoted, only to be promoted shortly afterwards. it could be anything causing this effect, but you have fixed assumptions. There has not been any big mysteries for a while. The biggest mystery in the first two HotS seasons was the MMR decay. It took while to understand what was happening regarding that (originally thought it has to be a bug in the ladder system, as it seemed illogical to have so considerable decay, but in the end it turned out to be a planned feature). The league placements have been functioning just as expected for a long time. Thought for this season I do not have reliable data as Blizzard's web profiles are still malfunctioning (giving incorrect bonus pools). During the HotS era there has not been any considerable changes except offset changes twice (first time at start of third HotS season and second time couple of days after the start of last season). Regarding this season things have looked normal thus far. But when there is more data available, things will be checked.
And yes. Data is checked from time to time. There has been things in the past that Blizzard has conveniently forgot to mention (such as MMR decay) or has stated more simplified than it actually is (for example there was no offset changes at the start of last season even if they claimed. In reality they did the offset changes couple of days after the season start). Every season it is checked if there is changes to the offsets or some unexpected things regarding the several thousands of user profiles.
On April 16 2014 07:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote: So it's fairly clear that league you are in does not reflect your MMR. Like seriously, you can't even be demoted. I think that's a serious case of league not representing the MMR. You really can't argue otherwise. The league reflects your MMR _at the moment_ you are placed there. After that it can differ.
On April 16 2014 07:15 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 07:11 Hider wrote:On April 16 2014 06:55 Faust852 wrote:On April 16 2014 06:15 Hider wrote:On April 16 2014 05:37 Chocolate wrote: Can't wait to ladder during the summer... haven't played since early January, and was diamond then. Yay
Can we agree at least that, these days, diamond is at least a somewhat respectable ranking? Back in the day it was "masters (sometimes with a specific rank ie top 8) or gtfo, but now I'm not sure if that is really fair A high diamond today is probably better than a high master 10 months ago. Not really sure about that tbh. If you said 2 years, certainly but if I take my case as an exemple, I didn't play that much on hots, I think I got worst since the end of WoL (my APM dropped from ~150 to ~100) and i'm still usually toping the top8 master every season I play seriously. I remember being top top1000 master early HOTS, which I would consider being high master since there was around 6k players in master league back then. I am in multiple ways a better player today, however "just" in top diamond - though I haven't played alot of games and suffered from a lot of decay, however, getting back into master is definitely not easy. Point is this - If you a top 10% diamond player could go back in time and battle against a top 10% master player 10 months ago --> Diamond player of today would IMO win. Master league 2 years ago = plat today or something like this. 3 years ago = Silver/Gold. However, at the begining of hots everyone could be master since there was a bug and over 8% of the player pool was in master league. Now there is already over 1k master and it represents only 2%, with a lot of people being demoted this season. It was not a bug. They had just set low entry thresholds. Also MMR ranges for each league were smaller (less wins needed to cross each league's range). After the two first seasons they changed the offsets / thresholds making it harder to reach master
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No demotion for me, still in masters. That said, I know a LOT of people who got placed diamond. I assume I didn't because I had just got promoted before the ladder lock.
I could have sworn I one of last season's GM in diamond yesterday too.
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I was like Plat, then I got demoted because I did not play enough. Then I was gold and did not play because its no fun to beat real gold-leaguers. Now I'm in Silver and well, its even less fun. I won 2 games by just making two fucking Reapers and that killed like their whole Mineral-Line.... I guess I wait until I'm in Bronze, huh? After Bronze I get domoted back to Plat, right?
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First placement in a few seasons where I -didn't- get demoted :p
It does seem like it's a bit harsher though with demoting people at the start of the season since the new rules about no mid-season ones came in. Never took me more than a few games to remake the promotion i dropped on placement though...
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On April 16 2014 08:35 Kiernan wrote: I was like Plat, then I got demoted because I did not play enough. Then I was gold and did not play because its no fun to beat real gold-leaguers. Now I'm in Silver and well, its even less fun. I won 2 games by just making two fucking Reapers and that killed like their whole Mineral-Line.... I guess I wait until I'm in Bronze, huh? After Bronze I get domoted back to Plat, right?
If you play for two days you're back where you're supposed to be, I mean come on dude. It's never taken me more than 50 consecutive wins to get to a reasonable level.
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On April 15 2014 16:52 MrMotionPicture wrote: Well since you can no longer be demoted during the season, I think they do this to reset the ladder a little and make sure everyone is where they should be. I'm sure you'll get back to master in no time :3
You can absolutely be demoted mid season.. no idea where this idea came from but I hear it a lot.
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On April 15 2014 18:34 oGoZenob wrote: I went 15-3 last season and get demoted last night -_-
18 games in a season = not nearly enough games to avoid decay.
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United States12181 Posts
On April 16 2014 07:00 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 05:23 korona wrote:On April 16 2014 05:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On April 16 2014 03:31 korona wrote:On April 16 2014 03:24 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It seems that demotion has no affect to your MMR. So you have the MMR, but not the rank. You play exactly the same opponents as before, only that ether you or they are fooled by your displayed rank. And you play 1-5 games and your rank is back to what it was before. What is the point of this? Only thing I can think off is that as a side effect of the no demotion thing that blizzard has going on, blizzard has decided to demote half the active ladder players. Why is Blizzard so afraid of simply promoting and demoting people according to their current MMR? None of this no demotion, wait till Blizzard is certain of your MMR crap that makes it so some players have lower league but higher MMR. No. The league you are placed in reflects your MMR. If you are placed e.g. in gold, then your MMR at that moment was in gold league range. And when you cross the league threshold you are pretty much immediately promoted. Exception to this are fresh accounts that are placed lower than their actual MMR is but at the 25th match (If they win as you can only be promoted with a win), they are promoted to their actual league at the latest. Anecdotal evidence of the sheer number of people being demoted, only to shortly be promoted back in 5 games or less suggest that MMR and league you are placed in after the first placement game is no longer true. Also, Blizzard waits till MMR is stabilised, meaning that normally it is impossible to bounce between leagues, also meaning that it is possible for your MMR to be at a different league, and that the leagues appear to have a lot of overlap depending on what division you are in (don't ask my why Blizzard does this). Yeah, so the league you are placed in has never accurately reflected MMR, and the strange demotion mechanic that Blizzard has going on makes it even worse. Incorrect. After the placement match you are placed in a league that reflects your MMR at that moment (fresh accounts that start from blank MMR are exceptions to this rule as they are placed conservatively). Also you might not know that I have been the main developer of the MMR tool for more than a year. I do have access to plenty of hard data to back up what I am saying. And regarding promotions after the placement match: During the WoL era Blizzard clearly used some kind of MMR moving average regarding the promotions (stabilization period, exact formulas have never been revealed). But after HotS was released the character accounts have been promoted pretty much immediately when they cross the thresholds. But also during the WoL era it was possible to get immediately promoted one match after the placement match if you crossed the threshold. Or you know, maybe just maybe you don't have the monopoly on just how Blizzard ladder operates. Blizzard can change whatever they like without telling anyone, and that is exactly what they do. There is a lot of people mysteriously being demoted, only to be promoted shortly afterwards. it could be anything causing this effect, but you have fixed assumptions. a So it's fairly clear that league you are in does not reflect your MMR. Like seriously, you can't even be demoted. I think that's a serious case of league not representing the MMR. You really can't argue otherwise.
Nothing he's said is incorrect. You're right that Blizzard can sometimes clandestinely change things, but this phenomenon of "magic" demotions and re-promotions has been happening since they removed midseason demotions, and it turns out that those players either decayed or ended the previous season below the floor of their former league. It's very difficult to determine whether a player's MMR is below their league's floor because of certain protections that prevent points from being anchored at zero, but people tend to dismiss the possibility because they're top 10 in their division or have 1000 points or whatever.
A lot of these players hover around the border, meaning sometimes they're above and sometimes below. When they get above the border, they get promoted. However, they don't get demoted if they fall back below, and that's a result of an intentional change. They'll never know whether their MMR fell below until the following season, and only if it stays below at the time of the next season's placement match.
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On April 16 2014 10:24 bri9and wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 16:52 MrMotionPicture wrote: Well since you can no longer be demoted during the season, I think they do this to reset the ladder a little and make sure everyone is where they should be. I'm sure you'll get back to master in no time :3 You can absolutely be demoted mid season.. no idea where this idea came from but I hear it a lot. Since when? I remember Blizz saying they removed the possibility a long time ago. Did they change their minds?
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Didn't play for 3 weeks, diamond to gold in all 3 random team leagues.
Now the level of play is so crap again it's just not fun, probably the end of 3.5 years of laddering.
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On April 16 2014 11:05 surreal1600 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 10:24 bri9and wrote:On April 15 2014 16:52 MrMotionPicture wrote: Well since you can no longer be demoted during the season, I think they do this to reset the ladder a little and make sure everyone is where they should be. I'm sure you'll get back to master in no time :3 You can absolutely be demoted mid season.. no idea where this idea came from but I hear it a lot. Since when? I remember Blizz saying they removed the possibility a long time ago. Did they change their minds? No, I think bri9and is misinformed. Cannot get demoted mid season (although I'm open to the possibility that I'm misinformed)
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So much drama over getting demoted for like 3-10 games.
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Plansix: im 23-13 or somthing and im stil dia, playin last seasons masters...
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On April 16 2014 10:30 bri9and wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2014 18:34 oGoZenob wrote: I went 15-3 last season and get demoted last night -_- 18 games in a season = not nearly enough games to avoid decay. 18 games in a season is more than enough to avoid decay, if there are no inactivity periods longer than 2 weeks. But he likely has such inactivity periods.
On April 16 2014 11:07 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 11:05 surreal1600 wrote:On April 16 2014 10:24 bri9and wrote:On April 15 2014 16:52 MrMotionPicture wrote: Well since you can no longer be demoted during the season, I think they do this to reset the ladder a little and make sure everyone is where they should be. I'm sure you'll get back to master in no time :3 You can absolutely be demoted mid season.. no idea where this idea came from but I hear it a lot. Since when? I remember Blizz saying they removed the possibility a long time ago. Did they change their minds? No, I think bri9and is misinformed. Cannot get demoted mid season (although I'm open to the possibility that I'm misinformed) There are no demotions mid-season (except from GM if the bonus pool rises above 180). It is possible to get placed lower leagues only via placement matches. By using 'leave league' feature players can force themselves to play a new placement match.
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Haven't even checked this season but probably back in Bronze again. Felt really bad about it last time that happened, not because I demoted but because I was constantly demolishing newbies through to Gold (got bored after about 20 games, no fun destroying new players with random stuff).
Its very annoying. Ok, people lose skill over time of not using it...but not THAT much.
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Northern Ireland20806 Posts
On April 16 2014 18:46 -Celestial- wrote: Haven't even checked this season but probably back in Bronze again. Felt really bad about it last time that happened, not because I demoted but because I was constantly demolishing newbies through to Gold (got bored after about 20 games, no fun destroying new players with random stuff).
Its very annoying. Ok, people lose skill over time of not using it...but not THAT much. Pretty much how I feel about ladder at present. The decay seems a bit much, not against the idea of having decay, as previously you'd have leagues stuck with people who played one or two games a season to re-place and just stuck around in the league they placed in. As to whether the decay is too much I'm again not sure, but I just get the feeling it is a bit too steep at present
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Every season this thread appears... wow. It's really, really simple actually. People can't be demoted during the season, but they can be promoted, that means that during the season there are more players than it should in higher leagues. So at the beginning of each season, many people in higher leagues get demoted. Of course you get demoted only if you are at the bottom of your league. And don't start telling things like "b-but I was top 8" it doesn't mean anything.
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Northern Ireland20806 Posts
Yeah it's simple when you put it like that, however why are there not mid-season demotions? Seems to have added to peoples' confusion/discontent with the ladder for no real discernible gain
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On April 16 2014 23:44 Wombat_NI wrote: Yeah it's simple when you put it like that, however why are there not mid-season demotions? Seems to have added to peoples' confusion/discontent with the ladder for no real discernible gain
Probably to inflate the ego of some. If you got promoted in a high league, you are happy, but at the end of the season, since a lot of players got demoted, they can say "yeah, a lot of good players got demoted too, i'm not bad it's more of a general thing".
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On April 16 2014 23:41 KingAlphard wrote: Every season this thread appears... wow. It's really, really simple actually. People can't be demoted during the season, but they can be promoted, that means that during the season there are more players than it should in higher leagues. So at the beginning of each season, many people in higher leagues get demoted. Of course you get demoted only if you are at the bottom of your league. And don't start telling things like "b-but I was top 8" it doesn't mean anything.
False. A lot of players that were in top 8 did get demoted. It's not that hard to get promoted again after the demotion, but it's definitely more wide-spread than you think.
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On April 16 2014 23:55 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 23:41 KingAlphard wrote: Every season this thread appears... wow. It's really, really simple actually. People can't be demoted during the season, but they can be promoted, that means that during the season there are more players than it should in higher leagues. So at the beginning of each season, many people in higher leagues get demoted. Of course you get demoted only if you are at the bottom of your league. And don't start telling things like "b-but I was top 8" it doesn't mean anything. False. A lot of players that were in top 8 did get demoted. It's not that hard to get promoted again after the demotion, but it's definitely more wide-spread than you think.
If you actually read the post, you'll notice that I didn't say that you can't be demoted as top 8, but that being top 8 doesn't matter anything.
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On April 17 2014 00:13 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 23:55 Ctone23 wrote:On April 16 2014 23:41 KingAlphard wrote: Every season this thread appears... wow. It's really, really simple actually. People can't be demoted during the season, but they can be promoted, that means that during the season there are more players than it should in higher leagues. So at the beginning of each season, many people in higher leagues get demoted. Of course you get demoted only if you are at the bottom of your league. And don't start telling things like "b-but I was top 8" it doesn't mean anything. False. A lot of players that were in top 8 did get demoted. It's not that hard to get promoted again after the demotion, but it's definitely more wide-spread than you think. If you actually read the post, you'll notice that I didn't say that you can't be demoted as top 8, but that being top 8 doesn't matter anything.
That's not how I read it. "Of course you get demoted only if you are at the bottom of your league" seemed pretty straight forward.
Sorry for the confusion.
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Yeah by "bottom" I mean MMR, not position, which are two different things obviously. Bottom might be an exaggeration, to be accurate it's like "low enough to match consistently players of the lower league" Personally I've never been demoted from master league once I was high enough to never match diamond players.
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On April 16 2014 16:12 MiCroLiFe wrote: Plansix: im 23-13 or somthing and im stil dia, playin last seasons masters... Your still playing SC2, right? You lost some matches, but it sounds like you are on your way. I don't really see a problem asong as the game is still fun.
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United States12181 Posts
On April 16 2014 23:41 KingAlphard wrote: Every season this thread appears... wow. It's really, really simple actually. People can't be demoted during the season, but they can be promoted, that means that during the season there are more players than it should in higher leagues. So at the beginning of each season, many people in higher leagues get demoted. Of course you get demoted only if you are at the bottom of your league. And don't start telling things like "b-but I was top 8" it doesn't mean anything.
The reason this thread appears is simple, as you say, and for the reason you say as well. Generally, the players who post that they were demoted at the start of the following season are the ones who would have been demoted midseason had demotions not been disabled.
Some have questioned why midseason demotions are disabled at all, and ask what purpose that change serves. I think that's equally simple. Without any evidence or metrics to back me up, I'd guess that a lot of players who saw the demotion message midseason probably just gave up for the rest of the season. "Screw this game, I'll just try again next season." With MMR decay introduced at the same time, that probably would have made things even more confusing because players could get demoted potentially multiple leagues after a single game following an inactivity period. So, since season rolls are times of great uncertainty for the community anyway, just postpone any demotions until then.
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On April 17 2014 01:10 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 23:41 KingAlphard wrote: Every season this thread appears... wow. It's really, really simple actually. People can't be demoted during the season, but they can be promoted, that means that during the season there are more players than it should in higher leagues. So at the beginning of each season, many people in higher leagues get demoted. Of course you get demoted only if you are at the bottom of your league. And don't start telling things like "b-but I was top 8" it doesn't mean anything. The reason this thread appears is simple, as you say, and for the reason you say as well. Generally, the players who post that they were demoted at the start of the following season are the ones who would have been demoted midseason had demotions not been disabled. Some have questioned why midseason demotions are disabled at all, and ask what purpose that change serves. I think that's equally simple. Without any evidence or metrics to back me up, I'd guess that a lot of players who saw the demotion message midseason probably just gave up for the rest of the season. "Screw this game, I'll just try again next season." With MMR decay introduced at the same time, that probably would have made things even more confusing because players could get demoted potentially multiple leagues after a single game following an inactivity period. So, since season rolls are times of great uncertainty for the community anyway, just postpone any demotions until then.
It just does not work like that and I have evidence of this. I started last season in plat due to MMR decay and won my way back to diamond with a 60% win ratio. Then my win ratio started to stabilize around 53% as I took more losses, but NEVER EVER get below 53%. Yes I was in top diamond, and no I don't give a f*ng crap it still means I'm in the bottom of my league, cause my win ratio was above 50% and my opponents were tough. I played every day and got 350+ games played, so no MMR decay should happen.
Yet, I won my placement match and got placed into plat again, facing bad players (plats, even golds, true ones not guys who decayed or some crap), thus my ratio is now above 60% as I start climbing again (70% against some races), and only in top plat I started facing opponents who took me games.
This whole 'its the same thing league mean nothing, just play' beautiful theory is awesome, but it does not explain my situation. Why would I face worse opponents just because of the season change ? That does not make sense. If my MMR is the same, then I should be around 50% all the time, no matter my league placement.
And I can hear some pleople go on with their "just play then you'll get back in diamond in no time", well no. I payed good money for a game which ranking system doesn't work like adverstised, Blizzard owes me an explanation. It was like that the 3 previous seasons. Either they change this or communicate better on this, but something is obviously affecting my MMR down beside the supposed decay (not possible, I play every day) or me loosing too much (never went on a loose streak, never went under the 50% win ratio).
Upping MMR takes time and commitment, even if I can "get back" to diamond, why would I be happy to get my hard-earned points (MMR points) just vanish like this for no reason. Its like you play the shit ouf of the game, struggling each game, investing time and energy, and all of the sudden the system says "BAM here is 20 free losses for you" (again, NOT MMR decay, or not in the way it should happen by common knowledge). And the argument would be "just get back where you were, EZPZ!". You would'nt autoquit 20 times in Ranked ladder just for the lulz and then try to re-win everything because you love wasting your time, would you? I don't either.
Something is obviously horribly wrong with this system and right now I'm fed up with Blizzard. Yes, I play for fun cause I love the games not only for the point, but hell why would you use a ranking system then if it does not even work like a proper ranking system ? Half of the season I must take time to "rewin" my points, I'm done with that shit.
Fuck Blizzard.
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Some people really care about those points after a match, I guess.
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Northern Ireland20806 Posts
That's blatantly not what people are complaining about though lol
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People are talking about demotions they likely would have gotten mid season, but didn't. Or they took a break and got some MMR decay. I know people don't like getting demoted, but I would rather always be clbing than come back after 4 weeks off and get slapped around.
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Yes was solid mid master, dia lol
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I don't play ranked any more, I don't have time. I can barely get in a game or two of dota during a busy week. But when I did play a lot, getting demoted was just a thing that happened. It was a bummer, but I never when full emo and decided to quit the game. At worst I alt tabed and got a cookie in protest.
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On April 17 2014 01:34 DjayEl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 01:10 Excalibur_Z wrote:On April 16 2014 23:41 KingAlphard wrote: Every season this thread appears... wow. It's really, really simple actually. People can't be demoted during the season, but they can be promoted, that means that during the season there are more players than it should in higher leagues. So at the beginning of each season, many people in higher leagues get demoted. Of course you get demoted only if you are at the bottom of your league. And don't start telling things like "b-but I was top 8" it doesn't mean anything. The reason this thread appears is simple, as you say, and for the reason you say as well. Generally, the players who post that they were demoted at the start of the following season are the ones who would have been demoted midseason had demotions not been disabled. Some have questioned why midseason demotions are disabled at all, and ask what purpose that change serves. I think that's equally simple. Without any evidence or metrics to back me up, I'd guess that a lot of players who saw the demotion message midseason probably just gave up for the rest of the season. "Screw this game, I'll just try again next season." With MMR decay introduced at the same time, that probably would have made things even more confusing because players could get demoted potentially multiple leagues after a single game following an inactivity period. So, since season rolls are times of great uncertainty for the community anyway, just postpone any demotions until then. It just does not work like that and I have evidence of this. I started last season in plat due to MMR decay and won my way back to diamond with a 60% win ratio. Then my win ratio started to stabilize around 53% as I took more losses, but NEVER EVER get below 53%. Yes I was in top diamond, and no I don't give a f*ng crap it still means I'm in the bottom of my league, cause my win ratio was above 50% and my opponents were tough. I played every day and got 350+ games played, so no MMR decay should happen. Yet, I won my placement match and got placed into plat again, facing bad players (plats, even golds, true ones not guys who decayed or some crap), thus my ratio is now above 60% as I start climbing again (70% against some races), and only in top plat I started facing opponents who took me games. This whole 'its the same thing league mean nothing, just play' beautiful theory is awesome, but it does not explain my situation. Why would I face worse opponents just because of the season change ? That does not make sense. If my MMR is the same, then I should be around 50% all the time, no matter my league placement. And I can hear some pleople go on with their "just play then you'll get back in diamond in no time", well no. I payed good money for a game which ranking system doesn't work like adverstised, Blizzard owes me an explanation. It was like that the 3 previous seasons. Either they change this or communicate better on this, but something is obviously affecting my MMR down beside the supposed decay (not possible, I play every day) or me loosing too much (never went on a loose streak, never went under the 50% win ratio). Upping MMR takes time and commitment, even if I can "get back" to diamond, why would I be happy to get my hard-earned points (MMR points) just vanish like this for no reason. Its like you play the shit ouf of the game, struggling each game, investing time and energy, and all of the sudden the system says "BAM here is 20 free losses for you" (again, NOT MMR decay, or not in the way it should happen by common knowledge). And the argument would be "just get back where you were, EZPZ!". You would'nt autoquit 20 times in Ranked ladder just for the lulz and then try to re-win everything because you love wasting your time, would you? I don't either. Something is obviously horribly wrong with this system and right now I'm fed up with Blizzard. Yes, I play for fun cause I love the games not only for the point, but hell why would you use a ranking system then if it does not even work like a proper ranking system ? Half of the season I must take time to "rewin" my points, I'm done with that shit. Fuck Blizzard. How do you know your MMR dropped? You don't really have any proof of that. Since the season just started, there are likely people who have not done their placement match yet, and as a result the overall population that has been placed on the ladder is likely smaller right now, which means in order to get their magical percentages of players filling each league, Blizzard would need to adjust what MMR range corresponds with what league so that they can get the league distribution they want. As more people do their placements and the ladder fills out again, things will go back to normal.
I was top 5 diamond and got demoted too, and in the games I've played, it appears to be the same for pretty much all the people I have played. It's just how it is with seasons. Give things a bit of time to stabilize and you will be back to normal in no time.
Also, I wouldn't go around questioning Excalibur_Z too much without solid proof to back your arguments up. He has been an authority on the workings of the ladder system since WOL came out. He knows his stuff.
Finally, overall winrate over a season doesn't necessarily matter, but instead what matters is how your win/loss is trending now and who you are winning and losing to. If you had a bunch of wins for the first half of a season and then a negative or even win rate for the second half, then chances are your MMR right now is not increasing at the rate of someone who wins more than half their games or might even slightly be decreasing, depending on the opponent. If your displayed win/loss stabilized at 53% then likely you had some early win streaks, and after that you held a roughly even win/loss rate because logically, if you were indeed winning more than half your games consistently, that win rate would slowly climb rather than stay the same.
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United States12181 Posts
On April 17 2014 01:34 DjayEl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 01:10 Excalibur_Z wrote:On April 16 2014 23:41 KingAlphard wrote: Every season this thread appears... wow. It's really, really simple actually. People can't be demoted during the season, but they can be promoted, that means that during the season there are more players than it should in higher leagues. So at the beginning of each season, many people in higher leagues get demoted. Of course you get demoted only if you are at the bottom of your league. And don't start telling things like "b-but I was top 8" it doesn't mean anything. The reason this thread appears is simple, as you say, and for the reason you say as well. Generally, the players who post that they were demoted at the start of the following season are the ones who would have been demoted midseason had demotions not been disabled. Some have questioned why midseason demotions are disabled at all, and ask what purpose that change serves. I think that's equally simple. Without any evidence or metrics to back me up, I'd guess that a lot of players who saw the demotion message midseason probably just gave up for the rest of the season. "Screw this game, I'll just try again next season." With MMR decay introduced at the same time, that probably would have made things even more confusing because players could get demoted potentially multiple leagues after a single game following an inactivity period. So, since season rolls are times of great uncertainty for the community anyway, just postpone any demotions until then. It just does not work like that and I have evidence of this. I started last season in plat due to MMR decay and won my way back to diamond with a 60% win ratio. Then my win ratio started to stabilize around 53% as I took more losses, but NEVER EVER get below 53%. Yes I was in top diamond, and no I don't give a f*ng crap it still means I'm in the bottom of my league, cause my win ratio was above 50% and my opponents were tough. I played every day and got 350+ games played, so no MMR decay should happen. Yet, I won my placement match and got placed into plat again, facing bad players (plats, even golds, true ones not guys who decayed or some crap), thus my ratio is now above 60% as I start climbing again (70% against some races), and only in top plat I started facing opponents who took me games. This whole 'its the same thing league mean nothing, just play' beautiful theory is awesome, but it does not explain my situation. Why would I face worse opponents just because of the season change ? That does not make sense. If my MMR is the same, then I should be around 50% all the time, no matter my league placement. And I can hear some pleople go on with their "just play then you'll get back in diamond in no time", well no. I payed good money for a game which ranking system doesn't work like adverstised, Blizzard owes me an explanation. It was like that the 3 previous seasons. Either they change this or communicate better on this, but something is obviously affecting my MMR down beside the supposed decay (not possible, I play every day) or me loosing too much (never went on a loose streak, never went under the 50% win ratio). Upping MMR takes time and commitment, even if I can "get back" to diamond, why would I be happy to get my hard-earned points (MMR points) just vanish like this for no reason. Its like you play the shit ouf of the game, struggling each game, investing time and energy, and all of the sudden the system says "BAM here is 20 free losses for you" (again, NOT MMR decay, or not in the way it should happen by common knowledge). And the argument would be "just get back where you were, EZPZ!". You would'nt autoquit 20 times in Ranked ladder just for the lulz and then try to re-win everything because you love wasting your time, would you? I don't either. Something is obviously horribly wrong with this system and right now I'm fed up with Blizzard. Yes, I play for fun cause I love the games not only for the point, but hell why would you use a ranking system then if it does not even work like a proper ranking system ? Half of the season I must take time to "rewin" my points, I'm done with that shit. Fuck Blizzard.
That is a different matter, one better explained by this post: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/12506541134
Maybe you could look it over and report your adjusted points for last season?
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How do you know your MMR dropped? You don't really have any proof of that. Since the season just started, there are likely people who have not done their placement match yet, and as a result the overall population that has been placed on the ladder is likely smaller right now, which means in order to get their magical percentages of players filling each league, Blizzard would need to adjust what MMR range corresponds with what league so that they can get the league distribution they want. As more people do their placements and the ladder fills out again, things will go back to normal.
Hard to say, it still does not explain why my opponents are far worse than the ones I was facing at the end of the other season.
I will go through that for sure, but for now I can attest that for me it is not an enjoyable experience at all and I believe Bizzard should be more transparent about this. Or display true MMR or something. It's too much disturbing, it's a hassle each time to understand where you belong and how do you compare with, say, your friends in other divisions.
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On April 17 2014 03:20 DjayEl wrote:Show nested quote +How do you know your MMR dropped? You don't really have any proof of that. Since the season just started, there are likely people who have not done their placement match yet, and as a result the overall population that has been placed on the ladder is likely smaller right now, which means in order to get their magical percentages of players filling each league, Blizzard would need to adjust what MMR range corresponds with what league so that they can get the league distribution they want. As more people do their placements and the ladder fills out again, things will go back to normal. Hard to say, it still does not explain why my opponents are far worse than the ones I was facing at the end of the other season. I will go through that for sure, but for now I can attest that for me it is not an enjoyable experience at all and I believe Bizzard should be more transparent about this. Or display true MMR or something. It's too much disturbing, it's a hassle each time to understand where you belong and how do you compare with, say, your friends in other divisions.
Well a rough approxmiaton for "true mmr" would be this.
True MMR = Points + bonus pool - MMR lost due to inactivity - total amount of bonus pool gained throughout season
If that number is below 0, expect to drop a league next season.
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This thread has officially derailed.
Remember, guys. You are so upset over a game with already-arbitrary rankings.
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Northern Ireland20806 Posts
On April 17 2014 03:28 vult wrote: This thread has officially derailed.
Remember, guys. You are so upset over a game with already-arbitrary rankings. Plenty of the complaints are more along the lines that the player in question maintains a certain level of play regardless of inactivity, and their MMR gets tanked down to the extent that they are playing players who are so far below them that it doesn't make it fun for either participant.
I can play, maybe a game or two a day if even, but generally I play 20-25 game sessions pretty intermittently, say a month's gap between such things. I go and log and the opponents that I am getting are so much worse than me that I posit that the MMR decay far outweighs any decline in skill that could be expected with such inactivity.
In my particular case I'm just busy as hell, but always found time for ladder here and there because I felt that the players I was playing were on a par with me. Now it's that I log, play 3 or 4 games vs guys who are WAY worse than me and just feel bored.
I don't particularly care for my league or my icon, but for good games that don't feel like shooting fish in a barrel.
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I am almost back to plat.
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I am looking forward to the whine fest when the active player number decreases even further.
Imo its better to base ones progress on his own quality of play (like force one self to scout more or do at least 2 drops or never get supply blocked).
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I got demoted from Platinum to bronze sooooo... LOL
Truth is I definitely took a big break from playing, but bronze? To be honest I don't care what league I'm in, but there has been this general understanding that bronze is total beginner play. Sure, I'm not that good at StarCraft II but I got to Platinum on pure mechanics (I only played mass marine/medivac to improve macro).
It's weird but w/e, guess I have to play a little bit more and see if this is going to be my permanent spot and something has changed or if maybe I'll work my way back up.
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Yeah I think that post from MVP on us forums is correct. Last season bonus pool for sub master league was around 1460 if I read it correctly (that same guy said it in some other thread). I finished the season with 0 bonus pool and had 1596 points which means that I was still in the positive even if I remove the bonus pool. So as a result I stayed in my league and didn't get demoted.
It seems that win rate percentage, points, division rank etc. are actually more misleading than if we never had any of those.You actually think you are doing better (oh look at me, I am top 8 dia) and then you suddenly get demoted. Then the eyebrows get raised....
Personally I would love to have a visible MMR graph to track my current progress. Only true way to know if your MMR is rising.
I mean, even if I get matched vs players of higher league (for example master) and win, even if I check their match history and see that they are playing vs masters, I still can't know if I am getting close to promotion because as far as I know, because of no mid-season demotions, all those guys could just be diamonds (in MMR) with a master league badge.
They really made tracking progress almost impossible after they prevented mid-season demotions.Right now, only thing you can kind of tell (when you subtract bonus pool points) is if you will stay in the league or get demoted but you basically can't tell if you will get promoted or not.I guess getting more points for a win is an indicator of a sort because it suggests you are playing against a favored opponent, but still not really a reliable way of knowing.As a result, you basically feel happy when you do a placement match and see you didn't get demoted, it is really an awkward situation to be in.
If they want to insist on no mid-season demotions, they should give us visible MMR with thresholds for each league. But returning mid-season demotions is probably more realistic.
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United States12181 Posts
You can still use the top end of the rating ranges to estimate a promotion. MMR changes faster than points so the estimate will probably be on the conservative side.
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On April 17 2014 04:23 Qwerty85 wrote: Yeah I think that post from MVP on us forums is correct. Last season bonus pool for sub master league was around 1460 if I read it correctly (that same guy said it in some other thread). I finished the season with 0 bonus pool and had 1596 points which means that I was still in the positive even if I remove the bonus pool. So as a result I stayed in my league and didn't get demoted.
It seems that win rate percentage, points, division rank etc. are actually more misleading than if we never had any of those.You actually think you are doing better (oh look at me, I am top 8 dia) and then you suddenly get demoted. Then the eyebrows get raised....
Personally I would love to have a visible MMR graph to track my current progress. Only true way to know if your MMR is rising.
I mean, even if I get matched vs players of higher league (for example master) and win, even if I check their match history and see that they are playing vs masters, I still can't know if I am getting close to promotion because as far as I know, because of no mid-season demotions, all those guys could just be diamonds (in MMR) with a master league badge.
They really made tracking progress almost impossible after they prevented mid-season demotions.Right now, only thing you can kind of tell (when you subtract bonus pool points) is if you will stay in the league or get demoted but you basically can't tell if you will get promoted or not.I guess getting more points for a win is an indicator of a sort because it suggests you are playing against a favored opponent, but still not really a reliable way of knowing.As a result, you basically feel happy when you do a placement match and see you didn't get demoted, it is really an awkward situation to be in.
If they want to insist on no mid-season demotions, they should give us visible MMR with thresholds for each league. But returning mid-season demotions is probably more realistic.
Just for clarification, you don't have to win against a master player to get promoted. I have got promoted twice by beating diamonds. Well, that was in WoL but it's still a point.
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blizzard's ladder and mmr decay at work. nothing new here. if you were active before and were demoted, you should be promoted in a few games.
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I'm actively playing both 2v2 and 1v1; demoted in both. After my placement, I won a single game in 2v2 and was promoted. 1v1 has not promoted but I've only played 3 games there. Last time this happened it took 10-20 games before the promotion kicked in.
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Was demoted too, don't care (so don't treat me like a whiner), just trying to understand. Is blizzard really wanting such ratios for leagues (from nios): League Distr. (Global): GM: 0.48% Master: 2.10% Diamond: 8.78% Platinum: 8.30% Gold: 20.74% Silver: 33.70% Bronze: 25.91%
I thought they wanted to make bronze the smallest (outside of GM-M, to make noobs happy) and gold the largest. These distributions really do seem weird.
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On April 24 2014 02:30 ant-1 wrote: Was demoted too, don't care (so don't treat me like a whiner), just trying to understand. Is blizzard really wanting such ratios for leagues (from nios): League Distr. (Global): GM: 0.48% Master: 2.10% Diamond: 8.78% Platinum: 8.30% Gold: 20.74% Silver: 33.70% Bronze: 25.91%
I thought they wanted to make bronze the smallest (outside of GM-M, to make noobs happy) and gold the largest. These distributions really do seem weird. That looks like the distribution they were trying to get away from. They implied they wanted it to be more middle-heavy yet that distribution heavily skews towards the bottom. Very weird.
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On April 24 2014 02:30 ant-1 wrote: Was demoted too, don't care (so don't treat me like a whiner), just trying to understand. Is blizzard really wanting such ratios for leagues (from nios): League Distr. (Global): GM: 0.48% Master: 2.10% Diamond: 8.78% Platinum: 8.30% Gold: 20.74% Silver: 33.70% Bronze: 25.91%
I thought they wanted to make bronze the smallest (outside of GM-M, to make noobs happy) and gold the largest. These distributions really do seem weird.
I would expect the lower league players haven't played enough games to make the wanted distribution really kick in. They've made the threshold lower to get out of bronze, the players have to actually step over that threshold and bronzies aren't the most active of folks.
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On April 24 2014 03:25 Amazonic wrote: I would expect the lower league players haven't played enough games to make the wanted distribution really kick in. They've made the threshold lower to get out of bronze, the players have to actually step over that threshold and bronzies aren't the most active of folks.
Sure, but gold and silver? And that few diamonds and plats?
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Thats a question where very few people are in a position to answer. People have so much bias and only really can play one race very often.
Ask mYi balloon which race is hardest :D
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oh god dont help him derail the thread any further ive just been trying to read about the decay lately and this threads a mess
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On April 17 2014 03:20 DjayEl wrote:Show nested quote +How do you know your MMR dropped? You don't really have any proof of that. Since the season just started, there are likely people who have not done their placement match yet, and as a result the overall population that has been placed on the ladder is likely smaller right now, which means in order to get their magical percentages of players filling each league, Blizzard would need to adjust what MMR range corresponds with what league so that they can get the league distribution they want. As more people do their placements and the ladder fills out again, things will go back to normal. Hard to say, it still does not explain why my opponents are far worse than the ones I was facing at the end of the other season. I will go through that for sure, but for now I can attest that for me it is not an enjoyable experience at all and I believe Bizzard should be more transparent about this. Or display true MMR or something. It's too much disturbing, it's a hassle each time to understand where you belong and how do you compare with, say, your friends in other divisions. Haha buddy, I experienced the same. Luckily I didn`t fall into plat, but I went 10-1 my first few games back in diamond and I`m thinking wtf, wtf. It seems to be stabilizing out after 30 games I`m moving towards 50% just like you said (still around 60).
My EU account is plat. I don`t play as much on it and I think that goes to show a couple things. You have to play a lot of games to get promoted and leagues aren`t working. It has a serious effect on whether anyone can improve in the game. On my diamond accounts, I hit master players who smash me. But on the plat one, I just play plats. Hard to improve playing plats.
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Have to admit, I posted in here saying that promotion is relatively easy after the season starting demotion, but hasn't been the case for me this season, and I couldn't be more fucking frustrated.
Just because I'm older now, full time job, and only play one-three games a day during the week(more on weekend), doesn't mean I should be fucking demoted every season. I was diamond in wol and had a great experience with about a 50% win rate, exactly what blizz wanted. Now, I constantly get demoted to where this season i'm in gold, yet I play versus masters and diamonds all the time.
I love the game, but fuck me, so annoying to deal with, especially when the community bases your knowledge on the color of the border on your portrait. It really shouldn't matter, but it does. I don't understand the logic here, I guess maybe they want people to stick around and play longer ladder sessions. That tactic is backfiring with me personally, I lose desire to play. I worked hard to earn my league in wol, and it just seems like all that work with my mmr is completely useless, and blizz is deciding how my activity represents my skill. BOO!
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Northern Ireland20806 Posts
On April 24 2014 23:05 Ctone23 wrote: Have to admit, I posted in here saying that promotion is relatively easy after the season starting demotion, but hasn't been the case for me this season, and I couldn't be more fucking frustrated.
Just because I'm older now, full time job, and only play one-three games a day during the week(more on weekend), doesn't mean I should be fucking demoted every season. I was diamond in wol and had a great experience with about a 50% win rate, exactly what blizz wanted. Now, I constantly get demoted to where this season i'm in gold, yet I play versus masters and diamonds all the time.
I love the game, but fuck me, so annoying to deal with, especially when the community bases your knowledge on the color of the border on your portrait. It really shouldn't matter, but it does. I don't understand the logic here, I guess maybe they want people to stick around and play longer ladder sessions. That tactic is backfiring with me personally, I lose desire to play. I worked hard to earn my league in wol, and it just seems like all that work with my mmr is completely useless, and blizz is deciding how my activity represents my skill. BOO!
I feel your pain man. As a working single parent of sorts I still have maintained a decent overall mechanical level but I can't play enough to ever outdo the MMR decay it seems!
A session is infrequent and tends to start with me stomping bad players, start hitting guys who are good, be out of time and the process repeats next time I log. Then I post my complaints in here and people somehow get the impression I give a fuck about the portrait beside my name :S
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On April 24 2014 23:29 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 23:05 Ctone23 wrote: Have to admit, I posted in here saying that promotion is relatively easy after the season starting demotion, but hasn't been the case for me this season, and I couldn't be more fucking frustrated.
Just because I'm older now, full time job, and only play one-three games a day during the week(more on weekend), doesn't mean I should be fucking demoted every season. I was diamond in wol and had a great experience with about a 50% win rate, exactly what blizz wanted. Now, I constantly get demoted to where this season i'm in gold, yet I play versus masters and diamonds all the time.
I love the game, but fuck me, so annoying to deal with, especially when the community bases your knowledge on the color of the border on your portrait. It really shouldn't matter, but it does. I don't understand the logic here, I guess maybe they want people to stick around and play longer ladder sessions. That tactic is backfiring with me personally, I lose desire to play. I worked hard to earn my league in wol, and it just seems like all that work with my mmr is completely useless, and blizz is deciding how my activity represents my skill. BOO!
I feel your pain man. As a working single parent of sorts I still have maintained a decent overall mechanical level but I can't play enough to ever outdo the MMR decay it seems! A session is infrequent and tends to start with me stomping bad players, start hitting guys who are good, be out of time and the process repeats next time I log. Then I post my complaints in here and people somehow get the impression I give a fuck about the portrait beside my name :S
Yea essentially I posted a rant of sorts. I have to say I feel a bit better after posting that. I just get discouraged now, where before I did not. I understand you are supposed to lose, but the frustration grows inside because of all of the hidden variables. They say mmr decay only happens if you are inactive for two weeks continuous, which I have never done, and at the end of each season I play higher league opponents. Next season I win my placement vs a plat, get gold? It doesn't make any logical sense.
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Northern Ireland20806 Posts
It's just a pain in the arse, I play with a bunch of friends from Diamond-Masters and we do KoTH and I hold my own in those, even won some games playing with my Zerg (by far my worst matchup)
Go on ladder and get placed way, way down not just in terms of league but in terms of the relative ability of the players, who are often noticeably worse than who I used to play.
The general crux of my rant is that IMO your skill does not decay equivalently with the MMR decay, your playing chops remain higher than the matchmaking system allows for, so you come back, play a bunch of games vs bad players, start to progress, go inactive a bit and then the cycle repeats.
I'd imagine for the more active player this isn't an issue, but for those with a lot of RL commitments it really tanks the fun out of laddering.
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I was Masters up until last season (every season since masters came out) but last season it put me in diamond and I only had time to play about 40 games but I went like 28-12 or so in diamond. So this season I come back and get dropped into gold which personally is hilarious for me because as tasteless says "I get to go michael meyers nerd" on a bunch of gold and plat people.
Anyways it took about 3 ladder sessions, I went 22-3 and got put back into Diamond (at rank 1). I was surprise that I didn't start facing a single diamond player until I had won about 15 straight though, I just absolutely crushed 15 gold and platinum people in a row which was really kind of annoying but good for the ego I guess. The ladder does seem a lot more competitive now so I don't know if I'll even bother pushing to get back into Masters,
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So much of the complaining in this thread is placebo effect, delusion, or outright lies.
If you have been playing frequently enough to avoid MMR decay and got placed into a lower league to start the season, and are playing "worse" opponents, than before-- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LEAGUE. Your MMR determines who you play against, not your league. And your MMR is unaffected by the fact you got demoted to start the season.
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I spent last season in plat, demoted to gold at the start of this season. It took about 20 games at 66% winrate to get promoted. I made it to #1 plat with another 25 to 30 games. My wr for the season is at 60, no sign of promotion, still playing other plats and even gold leaguers (true goldies).
i think the big thing driving a lot of this goofiness isnt the mmr decay, its the shrunken player base. I think that its harder to move up to diamond and beyond bc there just arent enough higher ranked players on for you to really boost your mmr against? At some point i would imagine your mmr stops going up, or does so at a pathetic rate, if you dont get matched against higher quality opponants?
At the very least it may be time to revise our stereotypes, bc as the base shrinks it is inevitable that quality players are going to have to populate lower leagues
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I spent last season in plat, demoted to gold at the start of this season. It took about 20 games at 66% winrate to get promoted. I made it to #1 plat with another 25 to 30 games. My wr for the season is at 60, no sign of promotion, still playing other plats and even gold leaguers (true goldies).
i think the big thing driving a lot of this goofiness isnt the mmr decay, its the shrunken player base. I think that its harder to move up to diamond and beyond bc there just arent enough higher ranked players on for you to really boost your mmr against? At some point i would imagine your mmr stops going up, or does so at a pathetic rate, if you dont get matched against higher quality opponants?
At the very least it may be time to revise our stereotypes, bc as the base shrinks it is inevitable that quality players are going to have to populate lower leagues
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On April 24 2014 05:29 Dunmer wrote: Thats a question where very few people are in a position to answer. People have so much bias and only really can play one race very often.
Ask mYi balloon which race is hardest :D
he has said that terran is the hardest race ;p
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On April 24 2014 23:45 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'd imagine for the more active player this isn't an issue, but for those with a lot of RL commitments it really tanks the fun out of laddering.
Spot on right there.
On April 24 2014 23:53 RampancyTW wrote: So much of the complaining in this thread is placebo effect, delusion, or outright lies.
If you have been playing frequently enough to avoid MMR decay and got placed into a lower league to start the season, and are playing "worse" opponents, than before-- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LEAGUE. Your MMR determines who you play against, not your league. And your MMR is unaffected by the fact you got demoted to start the season.
EDIT: Oops, read that wrong. Disagree completely. How is it that I end the previous season top 8 plat, playing 50% of my games vs Diamond, win the placement match vs a plat terran, and get gold? Also, how can you explain how I continue to play diamond and masters league opponents. I'm sick of people hailing MMR as the all-knowing source, when in reality its broken.
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On April 25 2014 00:21 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 23:45 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'd imagine for the more active player this isn't an issue, but for those with a lot of RL commitments it really tanks the fun out of laddering. Spot on right there. Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 23:53 RampancyTW wrote: So much of the complaining in this thread is placebo effect, delusion, or outright lies.
If you have been playing frequently enough to avoid MMR decay and got placed into a lower league to start the season, and are playing "worse" opponents, than before-- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LEAGUE. Your MMR determines who you play against, not your league. And your MMR is unaffected by the fact you got demoted to start the season. EDIT: Oops, read that wrong. Disagree completely. How is it that I end the previous season top 8 plat, playing 50% of my games vs Diamond, win the placement match vs a plat terran, and get gold? Also, how can you explain how I continue to play diamond and masters league opponents. I'm sick of people hailing MMR as the all-knowing source, when in reality its broken. Wait, what?
So you're still playing the same level of players that you were before? Sounds like your MMR is working exactly as intended. The leagues may be a little wonky, but that won't affect the quality of player you play against.
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On April 24 2014 23:53 RampancyTW wrote: So much of the complaining in this thread is placebo effect, delusion, or outright lies.
If you have been playing frequently enough to avoid MMR decay and got placed into a lower league to start the season, and are playing "worse" opponents, than before-- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LEAGUE. Your MMR determines who you play against, not your league. And your MMR is unaffected by the fact you got demoted to start the season.
On April 25 2014 00:21 Ctone23 wrote: EDIT: Oops, read that wrong. Disagree completely. How is it that I end the previous season top 8 plat, playing 50% of my games vs Diamond, win the placement match vs a plat terran, and get gold? Also, how can you explain how I continue to play diamond and masters league opponents. I'm sick of people hailing MMR as the all-knowing source, when in reality its broken. Actually after HotS launch the league has mattered. The matchmaking is still MMR based, but it seems to prefer opponents from your own league. E.g. if there are two available opponents in close MMR range - one from lower league and one from your league, the matchmaker generally picks the one from your league.
When you drop into lower league MMR range during the season, you are still most of the time facing others from your league, whose MMR has also dropped either naturally via losing or via MMR decay. But in the start of the new season you are placed into the lower league based on your MMR and most of your opponents will be from that league. And population in the lower league is now a mix of those whose MMR dropped there during the previous season and those who already were there. Those who dropped into the lower league are likely generally more skilled than the players who already were there.
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I don't wanna be that guy but.... why does it matter? You should be playing to have fun and find challenging opponents. If you are being challenged in whatever league you're in I don't see why it should matter.
Example: OP was masters but is in diamond now. If OP still faces challenging diamond/masters opponents I don't see why it matters if hes in diamond. They should just have an invisible MMR with no leagues so people stop talking about them IMO.
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i take 1 month breaks from playing. then i go on a long run of playing games. after 10 or 15 games i'm back to a 50/50 winning percentage.
all this nitpicking/whining is good for a laugh. i've played many RTS games over the last 10+ years and each game had its own matchmaker.
relative to the other match making systems i've played within , SC2's system is excellent. i'm in Diamond, but i move from Gold to Diamond depending on the race i use and how often i play.
the lowest Bronze players and the top GM players might not like the match making system, but this occurs with all ladders for all RTS games... and probably all games in general.
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On April 25 2014 00:36 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 23:53 RampancyTW wrote: So much of the complaining in this thread is placebo effect, delusion, or outright lies.
If you have been playing frequently enough to avoid MMR decay and got placed into a lower league to start the season, and are playing "worse" opponents, than before-- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LEAGUE. Your MMR determines who you play against, not your league. And your MMR is unaffected by the fact you got demoted to start the season. Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 00:21 Ctone23 wrote: EDIT: Oops, read that wrong. Disagree completely. How is it that I end the previous season top 8 plat, playing 50% of my games vs Diamond, win the placement match vs a plat terran, and get gold? Also, how can you explain how I continue to play diamond and masters league opponents. I'm sick of people hailing MMR as the all-knowing source, when in reality its broken. Actually after HotS launch the league has mattered. The matchmaking is still MMR based, but it seems to prefer opponents from your own league. E.g. if there are two available opponents in close MMR range - one from lower league and one from your league, the matchmaker generally picks the one from your league. When you drop into lower league MMR range during the season, you are still most of the time facing others from your league, whose MMR has also dropped either naturally via losing or via MMR decay. But in the start of the new season you are placed into the lower league based on your MMR and most of your opponents will be from that league. And population in the lower league is now a mix of those whose MMR dropped there during the previous season and those who already were there. Those who dropped into the lower league are likely generally more skilled than the players who already were there.
I don't buy that, and that is just too complicated. I think the main issue is that the player pool is dropping and blizz wants to fill all of the leagues and allow for promotions, which is frustrating for someone working over 40 hours a week who can't play a lot.
As for your example of MMR, I don't think me playing vs diamond and masters players in the previous system indicates your scenario. I think they simply want to fill the leagues and probably pick players with fewer than X amount of games to be demoted. Who knows..
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On April 25 2014 00:38 -stOpSKY- wrote: I don't wanna be that guy but.... why does it matter? You should be playing to have fun and find challenging opponents. If you are being challenged in whatever league you're in I don't see why it should matter.
Example: OP was masters but is in diamond now. If OP still faces challenging diamond/masters opponents I don't see why it matters if hes in diamond. They should just have an invisible MMR with no leagues so people stop talking about them IMO. The main problem here is that matchmaking results are often quite bad. This is due that wildly different skilled players often share similar MMR. Even if the matchmaker is technically working fine, it thinks that players who have same MMR are equally skilled.
For example player A is at the bottom border of diamond league. He goes inactive for 4 weeks. Now his MMR decays into high gold range. Player B on the other hand is a solid high gold range player. But now the matchmaker considers both equally skilled and if they are matched, the player A wins most of the time even if he is bit rusty.
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On April 25 2014 00:38 -stOpSKY- wrote: I don't wanna be that guy but.... why does it matter? You should be playing to have fun and find challenging opponents. If you are being challenged in whatever league you're in I don't see why it should matter.
Example: OP was masters but is in diamond now. If OP still faces challenging diamond/masters opponents I don't see why it matters if hes in diamond. They should just have an invisible MMR with no leagues so people stop talking about them IMO.
People care about their league placement because it is a tangible badge by which they evaluate their skill level. It's the same reason that people care about their chess Elo.
What Blizzard should do is simply display The player's MMR, eliminate or radically change MMR decay, eliminate leagues, and eliminate seasons.
MMR decay really destroys rated team games. You might have 10 different 2x2 partners that you occasionally play with. Those teams can easily suffer repeat MMR decay penalites if you play a few games a month (and thus fall all the way to bronze at the start of the next season). It's just silly.
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On April 25 2014 00:27 RampancyTW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 00:21 Ctone23 wrote:On April 24 2014 23:45 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'd imagine for the more active player this isn't an issue, but for those with a lot of RL commitments it really tanks the fun out of laddering. Spot on right there. On April 24 2014 23:53 RampancyTW wrote: So much of the complaining in this thread is placebo effect, delusion, or outright lies.
If you have been playing frequently enough to avoid MMR decay and got placed into a lower league to start the season, and are playing "worse" opponents, than before-- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LEAGUE. Your MMR determines who you play against, not your league. And your MMR is unaffected by the fact you got demoted to start the season. EDIT: Oops, read that wrong. Disagree completely. How is it that I end the previous season top 8 plat, playing 50% of my games vs Diamond, win the placement match vs a plat terran, and get gold? Also, how can you explain how I continue to play diamond and masters league opponents. I'm sick of people hailing MMR as the all-knowing source, when in reality its broken. Wait, what? So you're still playing the same level of players that you were before? Sounds like your MMR is working exactly as intended. The leagues may be a little wonky, but that won't affect the quality of player you play against.
All I want is a little love from Blizzard for all of the years of service I have given to these games!
Alright i'm done complaining
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I stopped playing sc2 about 2 years ago now I just play a couple 2v2 every 2 or 3 weeks with a RL buddy. I was high master back then and my RL buddy plat and we were between dia and master in 2v2. Now we always get placed in bronze. Last season we went 16-0 and now we are again at 4-0 stats and even had some people who we hit 2 times in a row on ladder tell me to whisper them when we found a game since I was a masters player and they didn't want to face us a 3rd time in a row... The MMR decay seems way over the top and takes fun away from both the legit bronze who get stomped and us who can't get a challenge TT...
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On April 25 2014 00:46 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 00:36 korona wrote:On April 24 2014 23:53 RampancyTW wrote: So much of the complaining in this thread is placebo effect, delusion, or outright lies.
If you have been playing frequently enough to avoid MMR decay and got placed into a lower league to start the season, and are playing "worse" opponents, than before-- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LEAGUE. Your MMR determines who you play against, not your league. And your MMR is unaffected by the fact you got demoted to start the season. On April 25 2014 00:21 Ctone23 wrote: EDIT: Oops, read that wrong. Disagree completely. How is it that I end the previous season top 8 plat, playing 50% of my games vs Diamond, win the placement match vs a plat terran, and get gold? Also, how can you explain how I continue to play diamond and masters league opponents. I'm sick of people hailing MMR as the all-knowing source, when in reality its broken. Actually after HotS launch the league has mattered. The matchmaking is still MMR based, but it seems to prefer opponents from your own league. E.g. if there are two available opponents in close MMR range - one from lower league and one from your league, the matchmaker generally picks the one from your league. When you drop into lower league MMR range during the season, you are still most of the time facing others from your league, whose MMR has also dropped either naturally via losing or via MMR decay. But in the start of the new season you are placed into the lower league based on your MMR and most of your opponents will be from that league. And population in the lower league is now a mix of those whose MMR dropped there during the previous season and those who already were there. Those who dropped into the lower league are likely generally more skilled than the players who already were there. I don't buy that, and that is just too complicated. I think the main issue is that the player pool is dropping and blizz wants to fill all of the leagues and allow for promotions, which is frustrating for someone working over 40 hours a week who can't play a lot. As for your example of MMR, I don't think me playing vs diamond and masters players in the previous system indicates your scenario. I think they simply want to fill the leagues and probably pick players with fewer than X amount of games to be demoted. Who knows.. Blizzard has changed league offsets 3 times during the HotS era. At launch, at start of the third HotS season and few days after the start of last season. I have not verified if there are changes for this season, but a quick look at the MMR tool user profiles shows that there are no larger changes at least (likely no changes at all). So it is not that 'Blizzard wants to fill the leagues'. After the placement match you are placed into some league based on your MMR at that moment (fresh accounts starting from blank MMR are exceptions and are placed conservatively).
And the lower league player would still be matched against higher league players who have close MMR from time to time. To ensure quick matchmaking e.g. if there are no available master opponents who have close MMR for the master player, it would then pick an opponent with close MMR from the other leagues for him.
The league preference of the matchmaker was quite clear during last summer / early fall based on the MMR tool user profiles. People who faced max decay were still mostly matched against opponents from their league until their MMR dropped close to the low border of the lower league. Then their opponent's leagues started to mix up more (the lower your MMR sinks, the lower the amount of people from higher leagues with that low MMR becomes). Based on the matchmaking results the league preference of the matchmaker has not been that clear during the last few seasons, but that is more likely due that general player activity is likely dropping (less available opponents at a given time).
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Used to be masters. Suddenly, I'm in bird league. Decay is too real.
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Its very bad. Because for people like me that play not that often your MMR drops quite a bit, but my skill does not drop so much, even though I did not play the last 2 seasons. I'm in Silver now, but I pretty much roflstomp most of my Opponents, so its not even fun. And because its not fun to stomp Newbies I will never play enough to get my MMR back to Plat/Diamond to make Games fun.
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On April 25 2014 01:24 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 00:46 Ctone23 wrote:On April 25 2014 00:36 korona wrote:On April 24 2014 23:53 RampancyTW wrote: So much of the complaining in this thread is placebo effect, delusion, or outright lies.
If you have been playing frequently enough to avoid MMR decay and got placed into a lower league to start the season, and are playing "worse" opponents, than before-- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LEAGUE. Your MMR determines who you play against, not your league. And your MMR is unaffected by the fact you got demoted to start the season. On April 25 2014 00:21 Ctone23 wrote: EDIT: Oops, read that wrong. Disagree completely. How is it that I end the previous season top 8 plat, playing 50% of my games vs Diamond, win the placement match vs a plat terran, and get gold? Also, how can you explain how I continue to play diamond and masters league opponents. I'm sick of people hailing MMR as the all-knowing source, when in reality its broken. Actually after HotS launch the league has mattered. The matchmaking is still MMR based, but it seems to prefer opponents from your own league. E.g. if there are two available opponents in close MMR range - one from lower league and one from your league, the matchmaker generally picks the one from your league. When you drop into lower league MMR range during the season, you are still most of the time facing others from your league, whose MMR has also dropped either naturally via losing or via MMR decay. But in the start of the new season you are placed into the lower league based on your MMR and most of your opponents will be from that league. And population in the lower league is now a mix of those whose MMR dropped there during the previous season and those who already were there. Those who dropped into the lower league are likely generally more skilled than the players who already were there. I don't buy that, and that is just too complicated. I think the main issue is that the player pool is dropping and blizz wants to fill all of the leagues and allow for promotions, which is frustrating for someone working over 40 hours a week who can't play a lot. As for your example of MMR, I don't think me playing vs diamond and masters players in the previous system indicates your scenario. I think they simply want to fill the leagues and probably pick players with fewer than X amount of games to be demoted. Who knows.. Blizzard has changed league offsets 3 times during the HotS era. At launch, at start of the third HotS season and few days after the start of last season. I have not verified if there are changes for this season, but a quick look at the MMR tool user profiles shows that there are no larger changes at least (likely no changes at all). So it is not that 'Blizzard wants to fill the leagues'. After the placement match you are placed into some league based on your MMR at that moment (fresh accounts starting from blank MMR are exceptions and are placed conservatively). And the lower league player would still be matched against higher league players who have close MMR from time to time. To ensure quick matchmaking e.g. if there are no available master opponents who have close MMR for the master player, it would then pick an opponent with close MMR from the other leagues for him. The league preference of the matchmaker was quite clear during last summer / early fall based on the MMR tool user profiles. People who faced max decay were still mostly matched against opponents from their league until their MMR dropped close to the low border of the lower league. Then their opponent's leagues started to mix up more (the lower your MMR sinks, the lower the amount of people from higher leagues with that low MMR becomes). Based on the matchmaking results the league preference of the matchmaker has not been that clear during the last few seasons, but that is more likely due that general player activity is likely dropping (less available opponents at a given time).
Again, I think it's just too complicated. My mmr at that moment wasn't gold, seeing how I play against diamond opponents on a regular basis. I guess you could speculate that those diamond league opponents had similar mmr because of the absence of mid season demotion, but to me that just adds to the confusion. Adding to the fact I got demoted after my placement victory, it all but seems that my placement was pre-determined no matter the outcome.
I'd love to see them re work the ladder system a little bit, something that involves a little more reward, with less confusion.
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On April 25 2014 01:56 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 01:24 korona wrote:On April 25 2014 00:46 Ctone23 wrote:On April 25 2014 00:36 korona wrote:On April 24 2014 23:53 RampancyTW wrote: So much of the complaining in this thread is placebo effect, delusion, or outright lies.
If you have been playing frequently enough to avoid MMR decay and got placed into a lower league to start the season, and are playing "worse" opponents, than before-- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LEAGUE. Your MMR determines who you play against, not your league. And your MMR is unaffected by the fact you got demoted to start the season. On April 25 2014 00:21 Ctone23 wrote: EDIT: Oops, read that wrong. Disagree completely. How is it that I end the previous season top 8 plat, playing 50% of my games vs Diamond, win the placement match vs a plat terran, and get gold? Also, how can you explain how I continue to play diamond and masters league opponents. I'm sick of people hailing MMR as the all-knowing source, when in reality its broken. Actually after HotS launch the league has mattered. The matchmaking is still MMR based, but it seems to prefer opponents from your own league. E.g. if there are two available opponents in close MMR range - one from lower league and one from your league, the matchmaker generally picks the one from your league. When you drop into lower league MMR range during the season, you are still most of the time facing others from your league, whose MMR has also dropped either naturally via losing or via MMR decay. But in the start of the new season you are placed into the lower league based on your MMR and most of your opponents will be from that league. And population in the lower league is now a mix of those whose MMR dropped there during the previous season and those who already were there. Those who dropped into the lower league are likely generally more skilled than the players who already were there. I don't buy that, and that is just too complicated. I think the main issue is that the player pool is dropping and blizz wants to fill all of the leagues and allow for promotions, which is frustrating for someone working over 40 hours a week who can't play a lot. As for your example of MMR, I don't think me playing vs diamond and masters players in the previous system indicates your scenario. I think they simply want to fill the leagues and probably pick players with fewer than X amount of games to be demoted. Who knows.. Blizzard has changed league offsets 3 times during the HotS era. At launch, at start of the third HotS season and few days after the start of last season. I have not verified if there are changes for this season, but a quick look at the MMR tool user profiles shows that there are no larger changes at least (likely no changes at all). So it is not that 'Blizzard wants to fill the leagues'. After the placement match you are placed into some league based on your MMR at that moment (fresh accounts starting from blank MMR are exceptions and are placed conservatively). And the lower league player would still be matched against higher league players who have close MMR from time to time. To ensure quick matchmaking e.g. if there are no available master opponents who have close MMR for the master player, it would then pick an opponent with close MMR from the other leagues for him. The league preference of the matchmaker was quite clear during last summer / early fall based on the MMR tool user profiles. People who faced max decay were still mostly matched against opponents from their league until their MMR dropped close to the low border of the lower league. Then their opponent's leagues started to mix up more (the lower your MMR sinks, the lower the amount of people from higher leagues with that low MMR becomes). Based on the matchmaking results the league preference of the matchmaker has not been that clear during the last few seasons, but that is more likely due that general player activity is likely dropping (less available opponents at a given time). Again, I think it's just too complicated. My mmr at that moment wasn't gold, seeing how I play against diamond opponents on a regular basis. I guess you could speculate that those diamond league opponents had similar mmr because of the absence of mid season demotion, but to me that just adds to the confusion. Adding to the fact I got demoted after my placement victory, it all but seems that my placement was pre-determined no matter the outcome. I'd love to see them re work the ladder system a little bit, something that involves a little more reward, with less confusion. No. Your MMR was in gold league range when you were placed there (unless your account had less than ~25 matches after starting from blank MMR). And if you did not have inactivity periods that lasted more than 2 weeks (MMR decay only activates if you have longer than 2 weeks inactivity period in a certain game mode), then also your most recent pre-placement opponents had ~gold range MMR.
Also remember that if and when there is a league preference feature in the matchmaker then in a high gold MMR range as a gold player you may be more likely to face a diamond players than a platinum players. Why? That close to the platinum threshold there are plenty of platinums for the plat player to be matched against. For the diamond player there are not that many diamonds with so low MMR... And that diamond player will often be matched against golds and plats. Also if the league lock is not in effect and you face an opponent from two leagues lower who has not just started from blank MMR, you can be pretty sure your MMR is at least in the lower league range (very rare for the matchmaker to pick opponent with more than a league range lower MMR).
But in general it is often hard to estimate where your MMR is even if you know how the system works. Even if the adjusted points give hints regarding this, they may be considerably off. Easiest way at the moment is to use the MMR tool. Or wait for a promotion (you just passed the lower threshold of that league) / placement match (you are somewhere in that league's range). When you are placed into a new league, you know your MMR is in that league's range (exception fresh accounts that just started from blank MMR.).
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I would be so happy if Blizzard just gave us the option to see what our MMR is.
Somtimes I can't tell if I'm having an off day or just facing better opponents. That one number basically resolves this for me.
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Im facing better players this season, and im ranked the same way, seems that a lot of pro players are picking up smurfs or even region changes, yesterday I faced at least 7-8 Grand Master Players that had diamond ranking just because of MMR decay, oh the frustration....
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On April 25 2014 02:22 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 01:56 Ctone23 wrote:On April 25 2014 01:24 korona wrote:On April 25 2014 00:46 Ctone23 wrote:On April 25 2014 00:36 korona wrote:On April 24 2014 23:53 RampancyTW wrote: So much of the complaining in this thread is placebo effect, delusion, or outright lies.
If you have been playing frequently enough to avoid MMR decay and got placed into a lower league to start the season, and are playing "worse" opponents, than before-- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LEAGUE. Your MMR determines who you play against, not your league. And your MMR is unaffected by the fact you got demoted to start the season. On April 25 2014 00:21 Ctone23 wrote: EDIT: Oops, read that wrong. Disagree completely. How is it that I end the previous season top 8 plat, playing 50% of my games vs Diamond, win the placement match vs a plat terran, and get gold? Also, how can you explain how I continue to play diamond and masters league opponents. I'm sick of people hailing MMR as the all-knowing source, when in reality its broken. Actually after HotS launch the league has mattered. The matchmaking is still MMR based, but it seems to prefer opponents from your own league. E.g. if there are two available opponents in close MMR range - one from lower league and one from your league, the matchmaker generally picks the one from your league. When you drop into lower league MMR range during the season, you are still most of the time facing others from your league, whose MMR has also dropped either naturally via losing or via MMR decay. But in the start of the new season you are placed into the lower league based on your MMR and most of your opponents will be from that league. And population in the lower league is now a mix of those whose MMR dropped there during the previous season and those who already were there. Those who dropped into the lower league are likely generally more skilled than the players who already were there. I don't buy that, and that is just too complicated. I think the main issue is that the player pool is dropping and blizz wants to fill all of the leagues and allow for promotions, which is frustrating for someone working over 40 hours a week who can't play a lot. As for your example of MMR, I don't think me playing vs diamond and masters players in the previous system indicates your scenario. I think they simply want to fill the leagues and probably pick players with fewer than X amount of games to be demoted. Who knows.. Blizzard has changed league offsets 3 times during the HotS era. At launch, at start of the third HotS season and few days after the start of last season. I have not verified if there are changes for this season, but a quick look at the MMR tool user profiles shows that there are no larger changes at least (likely no changes at all). So it is not that 'Blizzard wants to fill the leagues'. After the placement match you are placed into some league based on your MMR at that moment (fresh accounts starting from blank MMR are exceptions and are placed conservatively). And the lower league player would still be matched against higher league players who have close MMR from time to time. To ensure quick matchmaking e.g. if there are no available master opponents who have close MMR for the master player, it would then pick an opponent with close MMR from the other leagues for him. The league preference of the matchmaker was quite clear during last summer / early fall based on the MMR tool user profiles. People who faced max decay were still mostly matched against opponents from their league until their MMR dropped close to the low border of the lower league. Then their opponent's leagues started to mix up more (the lower your MMR sinks, the lower the amount of people from higher leagues with that low MMR becomes). Based on the matchmaking results the league preference of the matchmaker has not been that clear during the last few seasons, but that is more likely due that general player activity is likely dropping (less available opponents at a given time). Again, I think it's just too complicated. My mmr at that moment wasn't gold, seeing how I play against diamond opponents on a regular basis. I guess you could speculate that those diamond league opponents had similar mmr because of the absence of mid season demotion, but to me that just adds to the confusion. Adding to the fact I got demoted after my placement victory, it all but seems that my placement was pre-determined no matter the outcome. I'd love to see them re work the ladder system a little bit, something that involves a little more reward, with less confusion. No. Your MMR was in gold league range when you were placed there (unless your account had less than ~25 matches after starting from blank MMR). And if you did not have inactivity periods that lasted more than 2 weeks (MMR decay only activates if you have longer than 2 weeks inactivity period in a certain game mode), then also your most recent pre-placement opponents had ~gold range MMR. Also remember that if and when there is a league preference feature in the matchmaker then in a high gold MMR range as a gold player you may be more likely to face a diamond players than a platinum players. Why? That close to the platinum threshold there are plenty of platinums for the plat player to be matched against. For the diamond player there are not that many diamonds with so low MMR... And that diamond player will often be matched against golds and plats. Also if the league lock is not in effect and you face an opponent from two leagues lower who has not just started from blank MMR, you can be pretty sure your MMR is at least in the lower league range (very rare for the matchmaker to pick opponent with more than a league range lower MMR). But in general it is often hard to estimate where your MMR is even if you know how the system works. Even if the adjusted points give hints regarding this, they may be considerably off. Easiest way at the moment is to use the MMR tool. Or wait for a promotion (you just passed the lower threshold of that league) / placement match (you are somewhere in that league's range). When you are placed into a new league, you know your MMR is in that league's range (exception fresh accounts that just started from blank MMR.).
As you said, it's hard to estimate where your MMR is, so why should I believe your paragraphs explaining MY situation? For the record I use MMR tools.
Basically what you're saying is that my MMR must have been gold, despite being in top platinum league with MMR tools showing my MMR above the diamond threshold, and playing 50% of my matches vs diamonds, with about a 40% win ratio. Somehow, you think my MMR had to be gold, because MMR is always correct, in your opinion.
Okay, I get your argument, but I disagree. You think MMR is perfect, I don't. End of story. Agree to disagree.
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On April 25 2014 04:30 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 02:22 korona wrote:On April 25 2014 01:56 Ctone23 wrote:On April 25 2014 01:24 korona wrote:On April 25 2014 00:46 Ctone23 wrote:On April 25 2014 00:36 korona wrote:On April 24 2014 23:53 RampancyTW wrote: So much of the complaining in this thread is placebo effect, delusion, or outright lies.
If you have been playing frequently enough to avoid MMR decay and got placed into a lower league to start the season, and are playing "worse" opponents, than before-- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LEAGUE. Your MMR determines who you play against, not your league. And your MMR is unaffected by the fact you got demoted to start the season. On April 25 2014 00:21 Ctone23 wrote: EDIT: Oops, read that wrong. Disagree completely. How is it that I end the previous season top 8 plat, playing 50% of my games vs Diamond, win the placement match vs a plat terran, and get gold? Also, how can you explain how I continue to play diamond and masters league opponents. I'm sick of people hailing MMR as the all-knowing source, when in reality its broken. Actually after HotS launch the league has mattered. The matchmaking is still MMR based, but it seems to prefer opponents from your own league. E.g. if there are two available opponents in close MMR range - one from lower league and one from your league, the matchmaker generally picks the one from your league. When you drop into lower league MMR range during the season, you are still most of the time facing others from your league, whose MMR has also dropped either naturally via losing or via MMR decay. But in the start of the new season you are placed into the lower league based on your MMR and most of your opponents will be from that league. And population in the lower league is now a mix of those whose MMR dropped there during the previous season and those who already were there. Those who dropped into the lower league are likely generally more skilled than the players who already were there. I don't buy that, and that is just too complicated. I think the main issue is that the player pool is dropping and blizz wants to fill all of the leagues and allow for promotions, which is frustrating for someone working over 40 hours a week who can't play a lot. As for your example of MMR, I don't think me playing vs diamond and masters players in the previous system indicates your scenario. I think they simply want to fill the leagues and probably pick players with fewer than X amount of games to be demoted. Who knows.. Blizzard has changed league offsets 3 times during the HotS era. At launch, at start of the third HotS season and few days after the start of last season. I have not verified if there are changes for this season, but a quick look at the MMR tool user profiles shows that there are no larger changes at least (likely no changes at all). So it is not that 'Blizzard wants to fill the leagues'. After the placement match you are placed into some league based on your MMR at that moment (fresh accounts starting from blank MMR are exceptions and are placed conservatively). And the lower league player would still be matched against higher league players who have close MMR from time to time. To ensure quick matchmaking e.g. if there are no available master opponents who have close MMR for the master player, it would then pick an opponent with close MMR from the other leagues for him. The league preference of the matchmaker was quite clear during last summer / early fall based on the MMR tool user profiles. People who faced max decay were still mostly matched against opponents from their league until their MMR dropped close to the low border of the lower league. Then their opponent's leagues started to mix up more (the lower your MMR sinks, the lower the amount of people from higher leagues with that low MMR becomes). Based on the matchmaking results the league preference of the matchmaker has not been that clear during the last few seasons, but that is more likely due that general player activity is likely dropping (less available opponents at a given time). Again, I think it's just too complicated. My mmr at that moment wasn't gold, seeing how I play against diamond opponents on a regular basis. I guess you could speculate that those diamond league opponents had similar mmr because of the absence of mid season demotion, but to me that just adds to the confusion. Adding to the fact I got demoted after my placement victory, it all but seems that my placement was pre-determined no matter the outcome. I'd love to see them re work the ladder system a little bit, something that involves a little more reward, with less confusion. No. Your MMR was in gold league range when you were placed there (unless your account had less than ~25 matches after starting from blank MMR). And if you did not have inactivity periods that lasted more than 2 weeks (MMR decay only activates if you have longer than 2 weeks inactivity period in a certain game mode), then also your most recent pre-placement opponents had ~gold range MMR. Also remember that if and when there is a league preference feature in the matchmaker then in a high gold MMR range as a gold player you may be more likely to face a diamond players than a platinum players. Why? That close to the platinum threshold there are plenty of platinums for the plat player to be matched against. For the diamond player there are not that many diamonds with so low MMR... And that diamond player will often be matched against golds and plats. Also if the league lock is not in effect and you face an opponent from two leagues lower who has not just started from blank MMR, you can be pretty sure your MMR is at least in the lower league range (very rare for the matchmaker to pick opponent with more than a league range lower MMR). But in general it is often hard to estimate where your MMR is even if you know how the system works. Even if the adjusted points give hints regarding this, they may be considerably off. Easiest way at the moment is to use the MMR tool. Or wait for a promotion (you just passed the lower threshold of that league) / placement match (you are somewhere in that league's range). When you are placed into a new league, you know your MMR is in that league's range (exception fresh accounts that just started from blank MMR.). As you said, it's hard to estimate where your MMR is, so why should I believe your paragraphs explaining MY situation? For the record I use MMR tools. Basically what you're saying is that my MMR must have been gold, despite being in top platinum league with MMR tools showing my MMR above the diamond threshold, and playing 50% of my matches vs diamonds, with about a 40% win ratio. Somehow, you think my MMR had to be gold, because MMR is always correct, in your opinion. Okay, I get your argument, but I disagree. You think MMR is perfect, I don't. End of story. Agree to disagree. If we all saw the MMR had calculated both for you and for your opponent, I bet an easy explanation would present itself. "Being in top platinum league with MMR tools" could have been guessing at your MMR for the last 20 games (CAP). You say you're vs diamonds, but what did MMR tools calculate for them? 40% win ratio, but against who?
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Northern Ireland20806 Posts
On April 25 2014 01:28 Kiernan wrote: Its very bad. Because for people like me that play not that often your MMR drops quite a bit, but my skill does not drop so much, even though I did not play the last 2 seasons. I'm in Silver now, but I pretty much roflstomp most of my Opponents, so its not even fun. And because its not fun to stomp Newbies I will never play enough to get my MMR back to Plat/Diamond to make Games fun. Rather than demotion, it is this that frustrates me.
Inb4 someone comes into the thread without reading posts and sticks another 'league shouldn't matter as long as you have fun'
I think last season I rocked 80% win rate but spread over periods of inactivity it was basically a cumulative win rate based on three/four separate sessions of noob bashing. As far as I can tell I pushed my MMR up and would start to play harder opponents at the end of one of these sessions but by the time I hit the next one my MMR was way out of whack
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I can't say this has happened to me - I know where I rate among the player base and I'm about there. (Top-ish Silver to mid Gold.) What I'm wondering is if the "occasional match way outside your range" part of the ladder is still in effect. I ask because I was (at the time) mid-silver and was matched against a Masters player. Legit Masters, as well; stomped the hell out of me and their history indicated they weren't MMR decayed to my level.
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just more mess ups by blizzard, I swear I cringe everytime they announce anything they're going to do to the game.
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On April 25 2014 04:30 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 02:22 korona wrote:On April 25 2014 01:56 Ctone23 wrote:On April 25 2014 01:24 korona wrote:On April 25 2014 00:46 Ctone23 wrote:On April 25 2014 00:36 korona wrote:On April 24 2014 23:53 RampancyTW wrote: So much of the complaining in this thread is placebo effect, delusion, or outright lies.
If you have been playing frequently enough to avoid MMR decay and got placed into a lower league to start the season, and are playing "worse" opponents, than before-- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LEAGUE. Your MMR determines who you play against, not your league. And your MMR is unaffected by the fact you got demoted to start the season. On April 25 2014 00:21 Ctone23 wrote: EDIT: Oops, read that wrong. Disagree completely. How is it that I end the previous season top 8 plat, playing 50% of my games vs Diamond, win the placement match vs a plat terran, and get gold? Also, how can you explain how I continue to play diamond and masters league opponents. I'm sick of people hailing MMR as the all-knowing source, when in reality its broken. Actually after HotS launch the league has mattered. The matchmaking is still MMR based, but it seems to prefer opponents from your own league. E.g. if there are two available opponents in close MMR range - one from lower league and one from your league, the matchmaker generally picks the one from your league. When you drop into lower league MMR range during the season, you are still most of the time facing others from your league, whose MMR has also dropped either naturally via losing or via MMR decay. But in the start of the new season you are placed into the lower league based on your MMR and most of your opponents will be from that league. And population in the lower league is now a mix of those whose MMR dropped there during the previous season and those who already were there. Those who dropped into the lower league are likely generally more skilled than the players who already were there. I don't buy that, and that is just too complicated. I think the main issue is that the player pool is dropping and blizz wants to fill all of the leagues and allow for promotions, which is frustrating for someone working over 40 hours a week who can't play a lot. As for your example of MMR, I don't think me playing vs diamond and masters players in the previous system indicates your scenario. I think they simply want to fill the leagues and probably pick players with fewer than X amount of games to be demoted. Who knows.. Blizzard has changed league offsets 3 times during the HotS era. At launch, at start of the third HotS season and few days after the start of last season. I have not verified if there are changes for this season, but a quick look at the MMR tool user profiles shows that there are no larger changes at least (likely no changes at all). So it is not that 'Blizzard wants to fill the leagues'. After the placement match you are placed into some league based on your MMR at that moment (fresh accounts starting from blank MMR are exceptions and are placed conservatively). And the lower league player would still be matched against higher league players who have close MMR from time to time. To ensure quick matchmaking e.g. if there are no available master opponents who have close MMR for the master player, it would then pick an opponent with close MMR from the other leagues for him. The league preference of the matchmaker was quite clear during last summer / early fall based on the MMR tool user profiles. People who faced max decay were still mostly matched against opponents from their league until their MMR dropped close to the low border of the lower league. Then their opponent's leagues started to mix up more (the lower your MMR sinks, the lower the amount of people from higher leagues with that low MMR becomes). Based on the matchmaking results the league preference of the matchmaker has not been that clear during the last few seasons, but that is more likely due that general player activity is likely dropping (less available opponents at a given time). Again, I think it's just too complicated. My mmr at that moment wasn't gold, seeing how I play against diamond opponents on a regular basis. I guess you could speculate that those diamond league opponents had similar mmr because of the absence of mid season demotion, but to me that just adds to the confusion. Adding to the fact I got demoted after my placement victory, it all but seems that my placement was pre-determined no matter the outcome. I'd love to see them re work the ladder system a little bit, something that involves a little more reward, with less confusion. No. Your MMR was in gold league range when you were placed there (unless your account had less than ~25 matches after starting from blank MMR). And if you did not have inactivity periods that lasted more than 2 weeks (MMR decay only activates if you have longer than 2 weeks inactivity period in a certain game mode), then also your most recent pre-placement opponents had ~gold range MMR. Also remember that if and when there is a league preference feature in the matchmaker then in a high gold MMR range as a gold player you may be more likely to face a diamond players than a platinum players. Why? That close to the platinum threshold there are plenty of platinums for the plat player to be matched against. For the diamond player there are not that many diamonds with so low MMR... And that diamond player will often be matched against golds and plats. Also if the league lock is not in effect and you face an opponent from two leagues lower who has not just started from blank MMR, you can be pretty sure your MMR is at least in the lower league range (very rare for the matchmaker to pick opponent with more than a league range lower MMR). But in general it is often hard to estimate where your MMR is even if you know how the system works. Even if the adjusted points give hints regarding this, they may be considerably off. Easiest way at the moment is to use the MMR tool. Or wait for a promotion (you just passed the lower threshold of that league) / placement match (you are somewhere in that league's range). When you are placed into a new league, you know your MMR is in that league's range (exception fresh accounts that just started from blank MMR.). As you said, it's hard to estimate where your MMR is, so why should I believe your paragraphs explaining MY situation? For the record I use MMR tools. Basically what you're saying is that my MMR must have been gold, despite being in top platinum league with MMR tools showing my MMR above the diamond threshold, and playing 50% of my matches vs diamonds, with about a 40% win ratio. Somehow, you think my MMR had to be gold, because MMR is always correct, in your opinion. Okay, I get your argument, but I disagree. You think MMR is perfect, I don't. End of story. Agree to disagree. If I knew your account name I could combine your uploaded last season & this season records and check if there are problems. Values calculated by the MMR tool can sometimes be incorrect for various reasons (sometimes data error due bnet web profiles, sometimes slight cap detection inaccuracy, sometimes user related problem such as old DB file or missing games). These often can be recognized just by looking at the graph as they cause erratic effects.
But there has been no surprises regarding the placements in the past unless they have made changes for this season. The placement league has reflected the MMR at that moment (except fresh accounts that started from blank MMR and were placed lower).
And no, MMR is not a perfect rating. It is not a skill rating anymore for many as Blizzard started artificially tampering it by introducing too steep MMR decay.
-- Edit 2014-04-25: After some searching I think I found Ctone23's account. He had used MMR tool periodically in Jan / early Feb (there were longer gaps in between when he had not recorded games). He originally had had mid to high gold MMR with lots of good readings. He had then stopped using MMR tool for a while and got promoted to platinum. He recorded few games while in platinum, but none were 'good'. Also his win-loss difference was about the same in the last recorded plat matches as it was when he was in high gold range. In general MMR rises only if you win more than you lose. For individual matches it can rise or drop more, but if you play 50-50 then your MMR generally stays about the same. After his last recorded matches in early Feb he had doubled the amount of matches played in the later stages of last season. But his win-loss difference for that period was slightly negative. --> His MMR had likely stayed about the same or dropped slightly (presuming he had not suffered MMR decay).
I also checked some of his opponents from the end of last season via SC2 client. Most of his most recent last season opponents had been placed in plat, but there were few gold placements too. He had also faced at least one unranked player who was master in ranked mode.
Even if there was less data than I hoped (I hoped for a full record of his all games as he mentioned he was an MMR tool user), it seems there was no surprises regarding Ctone23's placement to gold as it seems his MMR was likely in high gold range when this season started.
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On April 27 2014 05:20 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 03:40 SatedSC2 wrote: Is there an approximate amount of games you need to play before the game decides, "Oh, he's winning 5 games for every 1 he loses, perhaps I should put him against better players..?"
My NA account decayed into low Diamond or something like that, and I'm currently 14-3 trying to get it back into Masters. I don't think it should be in Masters yet since I am still playing Diamond players (albeit high Diamond players now), but it's kinda annoying that the MMR system will decay you so hard and force you to put so much time in to get the decay back. I'd rather not have decay; if people don't play and want to come back then Unranked can help them get in shape =/
EDIT:
20-3 Now. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu- So I now have a 75% win-rate with ~50 games played (all those games against Diamond players, with a few Masters thrown in) and it still insists that I am "evenly matched" with mid-league Diamond players who have an equal win/loss ratio. Seriously pissing me off right now =/ Ironically, every time I do get against a Masters player, I seem to get cheesed. That much just be karma punishing me for all the cheesy buildings that I use xD Size of the MMR range of diamond is quite big after the changes they made early last season. Estimate for it was 450 in MMR tool scale (from bottom border of diam to bottom border of master). If each match changes your MMR 16 points per average, it would require ~29 straight wins to pass the whole diamond league range. But in practice when you approach the high-end of diamond range, you will start gaining less / losing more. In practice it will likely take little less than 40 straight wins to pass whole diamond range.
Now if you have played ~50 games with 75% win-rate you will have something like 38w-12l. From that we get +26 win-loss difference. If you started from the bottom border of diamond then you will still potentially need more than 10 wins more than losses from your future matches. Of course if you were originally placed in platinum you will need more. If you were originally placed in diamond you may have been higher than the bottom and then need less.
Please note that these figures are very rough, but in general should give quite good idea what to expect.
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On April 27 2014 08:18 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 06:04 korona wrote:On April 27 2014 05:20 SatedSC2 wrote:On April 25 2014 03:40 SatedSC2 wrote: Is there an approximate amount of games you need to play before the game decides, "Oh, he's winning 5 games for every 1 he loses, perhaps I should put him against better players..?"
My NA account decayed into low Diamond or something like that, and I'm currently 14-3 trying to get it back into Masters. I don't think it should be in Masters yet since I am still playing Diamond players (albeit high Diamond players now), but it's kinda annoying that the MMR system will decay you so hard and force you to put so much time in to get the decay back. I'd rather not have decay; if people don't play and want to come back then Unranked can help them get in shape =/
EDIT:
20-3 Now. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu- So I now have a 75% win-rate with ~50 games played (all those games against Diamond players, with a few Masters thrown in) and it still insists that I am "evenly matched" with mid-league Diamond players who have an equal win/loss ratio. Seriously pissing me off right now =/ Ironically, every time I do get against a Masters player, I seem to get cheesed. That much just be karma punishing me for all the cheesy buildings that I use xD Size of the MMR range of diamond is quite big after the changes they made early last season. Estimate for it was 450 in MMR tool scale (from bottom border of diam to bottom border of master). If each match changes your MMR 16 points per average, it would require ~29 straight wins to pass the whole diamond league range. But in practice when you approach the high-end of diamond range, you will start gaining less / losing more. In practice it will likely take little less than 40 straight wins to pass whole diamond range. Now if you have played ~50 games with 75% win-rate you will have something like 38w-12l. From that we get +26 win-loss difference. If you started from the bottom border of diamond then you will still potentially need more than 10 wins more than losses from your future matches. Of course if you were originally placed in platinum you will need more. If you were originally placed in diamond you may have been higher than the bottom and then need less. Please note that these figures are very rough, but in general should give quite good idea what to expect. That's ridiculous. MMR decay needs to be removed and demotion during the season needs to be reinstated. Blizzard had a perfectly fine ladder system and they've ballsed it up. Undeniably so. I just played (and beat) someone who is 59-4 and still in Diamond, which in a sense makes me feel better because that's even worse than my experience, but in a sense pisses me off even more because that's fucking ridiculous. Doubly so now that unranked exists. If you are just coming back and need to shake off the rust, you can just play that. It's pretty stupid.
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United States12181 Posts
On April 27 2014 08:18 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 06:04 korona wrote:On April 27 2014 05:20 SatedSC2 wrote:On April 25 2014 03:40 SatedSC2 wrote: Is there an approximate amount of games you need to play before the game decides, "Oh, he's winning 5 games for every 1 he loses, perhaps I should put him against better players..?"
My NA account decayed into low Diamond or something like that, and I'm currently 14-3 trying to get it back into Masters. I don't think it should be in Masters yet since I am still playing Diamond players (albeit high Diamond players now), but it's kinda annoying that the MMR system will decay you so hard and force you to put so much time in to get the decay back. I'd rather not have decay; if people don't play and want to come back then Unranked can help them get in shape =/
EDIT:
20-3 Now. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu- So I now have a 75% win-rate with ~50 games played (all those games against Diamond players, with a few Masters thrown in) and it still insists that I am "evenly matched" with mid-league Diamond players who have an equal win/loss ratio. Seriously pissing me off right now =/ Ironically, every time I do get against a Masters player, I seem to get cheesed. That much just be karma punishing me for all the cheesy buildings that I use xD Size of the MMR range of diamond is quite big after the changes they made early last season. Estimate for it was 450 in MMR tool scale (from bottom border of diam to bottom border of master). If each match changes your MMR 16 points per average, it would require ~29 straight wins to pass the whole diamond league range. But in practice when you approach the high-end of diamond range, you will start gaining less / losing more. In practice it will likely take little less than 40 straight wins to pass whole diamond range. Now if you have played ~50 games with 75% win-rate you will have something like 38w-12l. From that we get +26 win-loss difference. If you started from the bottom border of diamond then you will still potentially need more than 10 wins more than losses from your future matches. Of course if you were originally placed in platinum you will need more. If you were originally placed in diamond you may have been higher than the bottom and then need less. Please note that these figures are very rough, but in general should give quite good idea what to expect. That's ridiculous. MMR decay needs to be removed and demotion during the season needs to be reinstated. Blizzard had a perfectly fine ladder system and they've ballsed it up. Undeniably so. I just played (and beat) someone who is 59-4 and still in Diamond, which in a sense makes me feel better because that's even worse than my experience, but in a sense pisses me off even more because that's fucking ridiculous.
Now, when you say "59-4 and still in Diamond", how do you know he started off in Diamond?
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Sup Chelsea!
Yeah I noticed this too, but it's alright and makes me more active until I'm masters again actually, lol.
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On April 27 2014 13:15 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 08:18 SatedSC2 wrote:On April 27 2014 06:04 korona wrote:On April 27 2014 05:20 SatedSC2 wrote:On April 25 2014 03:40 SatedSC2 wrote: Is there an approximate amount of games you need to play before the game decides, "Oh, he's winning 5 games for every 1 he loses, perhaps I should put him against better players..?"
My NA account decayed into low Diamond or something like that, and I'm currently 14-3 trying to get it back into Masters. I don't think it should be in Masters yet since I am still playing Diamond players (albeit high Diamond players now), but it's kinda annoying that the MMR system will decay you so hard and force you to put so much time in to get the decay back. I'd rather not have decay; if people don't play and want to come back then Unranked can help them get in shape =/
EDIT:
20-3 Now. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu- So I now have a 75% win-rate with ~50 games played (all those games against Diamond players, with a few Masters thrown in) and it still insists that I am "evenly matched" with mid-league Diamond players who have an equal win/loss ratio. Seriously pissing me off right now =/ Ironically, every time I do get against a Masters player, I seem to get cheesed. That much just be karma punishing me for all the cheesy buildings that I use xD Size of the MMR range of diamond is quite big after the changes they made early last season. Estimate for it was 450 in MMR tool scale (from bottom border of diam to bottom border of master). If each match changes your MMR 16 points per average, it would require ~29 straight wins to pass the whole diamond league range. But in practice when you approach the high-end of diamond range, you will start gaining less / losing more. In practice it will likely take little less than 40 straight wins to pass whole diamond range. Now if you have played ~50 games with 75% win-rate you will have something like 38w-12l. From that we get +26 win-loss difference. If you started from the bottom border of diamond then you will still potentially need more than 10 wins more than losses from your future matches. Of course if you were originally placed in platinum you will need more. If you were originally placed in diamond you may have been higher than the bottom and then need less. Please note that these figures are very rough, but in general should give quite good idea what to expect. That's ridiculous. MMR decay needs to be removed and demotion during the season needs to be reinstated. Blizzard had a perfectly fine ladder system and they've ballsed it up. Undeniably so. I just played (and beat) someone who is 59-4 and still in Diamond, which in a sense makes me feel better because that's even worse than my experience, but in a sense pisses me off even more because that's fucking ridiculous. Now, when you say "59-4 and still in Diamond", how do you know he started off in Diamond? Yes. That high win-loss difference (+ 55) is enough to pass the whole diamond range and the season is less than 2 weeks old. Thus he has started from lower leagues that are much smaller than diamond. Platinum (unlikely), gold and even silver are possible (even bronze is theoretically possible as he has lost only few games, but very unlikely) (estimates of league sizes and how many straight wins needed with average of 16 points per game: p 235 -> ~15 w, g 290 -> ~19 w, s 260 -> ~17 w. Also in high ranges of each league you will likely win fewer points and lose more, so in practice it requires some wins more).
As the "59-4 diamond" based on description got a high range diamond opponent, then he likely started from gold. But all these speculations are very rough as the only info we have is the win & loss counts
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I went from Plat --> silver this season, and i thought i played an okay amount of games :[
and I'm actually playing silver skilled people.... so I feel bad
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Are you guys sure its mmr decay? Since there are less people playing each season its harder to get into higher leagues and more demotion happen. Just look at it this way, now you have more reasons to play the game because you can get into a higher league! Now if you are stuck in your league with a 50/50 win ratio or somewhere around there, then maybe you're just not as good as you thought you were?
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On April 27 2014 17:40 phodacbiet wrote: Are you guys sure its mmr decay? Since there are less people playing each season its harder to get into higher leagues and more demotion happen. Just look at it this way, now you have more reasons to play the game because you can get into a higher league! Now if you are stuck in your league with a 50/50 win ratio or somewhere around there, then maybe you're just not as good as you thought you were? The amount of players playing placements each season has remained quite steady since last year. No big drops there. The activity on the other hand may have dropped considerably (sites like nios.kr do not register activity). And the less active people are, the more will face decay at some point or be indirectly affected.
Edit: of course you get some stats regarding activity from nios.kr too. Take amounts of players when 2 weeks has passed from the season start (tomorrow). Then check the numbers e.g. from two weeks from now and calculate the difference. The difference tells the amount of accounts that have been inactive for more than 2 weeks. Of course that amount also includes new accounts and accounts that have faced full reset. But it is likely that most are returning players whose MMR is carried over.
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I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond.
I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough...
I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league.
Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio.
Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level
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Diamonds are forever... ;w;
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On April 27 2014 19:55 Geiko wrote:I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond. I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough... I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league. Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio. Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level But what part of that 60-5 was after your diamond promotion? Games from gold & platinum do not tell much regarding your current situation. When you got promoted to diamond you knew that at that point your MMR had risen just over the diamond threshold. Thus start counting from that point. From bottom border of diamond it typically takes little less than 40 wins more than losses to get to master (if no decay between those games).
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2100+ masterterran who mostly only gets matched up vs diamonds whines about getting demoted...your MMR was bad from the beginning, now try playing some games without bonuspool and maybe you will stay in master one day
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On April 27 2014 19:55 Geiko wrote:I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond. I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough... I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league. Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio. Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level That's so fucked up. It should put you against masters after 10 wins in a row you would think. There's the problem. It's not just that mmr takes a long time to adjust, but you play low level opponents the whole way. You used to be able to hit gm like 2-3 times faster.
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On April 27 2014 22:17 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 19:55 Geiko wrote:I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond. I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough... I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league. Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio. Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level That's so fucked up. It should put you against masters after 10 wins in a row you would think. There's the problem. It's not just that mmr takes a long time to adjust, but you play low level opponents the whole way. You used to be able to hit gm like 2-3 times faster.
Bomber had to win 19 GMs in a row on NA to get from diamond to masters. So this is pretty normal. If u don't believe me u can check his stream VoDs between end of january and early feb, if he has any
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On April 27 2014 22:18 Xinzoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 22:17 TRaFFiC wrote:On April 27 2014 19:55 Geiko wrote:I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond. I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough... I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league. Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio. Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level That's so fucked up. It should put you against masters after 10 wins in a row you would think. There's the problem. It's not just that mmr takes a long time to adjust, but you play low level opponents the whole way. You used to be able to hit gm like 2-3 times faster. Bomber had to win 19 GMs in a row on NA to get from diamond to masters. So this is pretty normal. If u don't believe me u can check his stream VoDs between end of january and early feb, if he has any I believe you. I think it's been a problem for a while. I know last year they increased the range of skill level of the players you could face. Guess it never stuck.
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4s masters to gold league after winning placement. I guess i have been inactive for a month but still... pretty big drop
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On April 27 2014 22:22 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 22:18 Xinzoe wrote:On April 27 2014 22:17 TRaFFiC wrote:On April 27 2014 19:55 Geiko wrote:I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond. I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough... I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league. Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio. Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level That's so fucked up. It should put you against masters after 10 wins in a row you would think. There's the problem. It's not just that mmr takes a long time to adjust, but you play low level opponents the whole way. You used to be able to hit gm like 2-3 times faster. Bomber had to win 19 GMs in a row on NA to get from diamond to masters. So this is pretty normal. If u don't believe me u can check his stream VoDs between end of january and early feb, if he has any I believe you. I think it's been a problem for a while. I know last year they increased the range of skill level of the players you could face. Guess it never stuck.
Maybe Blizzard is trying to discourage smurfing by making it tedious to promote many accounts.
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On April 27 2014 22:18 Xinzoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 22:17 TRaFFiC wrote:On April 27 2014 19:55 Geiko wrote:I'm something like 60-5 currently and still in diamond. I've been in Master league as far as I can remember, but since MMR decay things have been getting a bit tough... I think it's because I play 1 game, then nothing for 1 month, then a couple of games, then nothing. I got set back all the way to gold league. Things are pretty ridiculous now, all my games I send my probe to the opponent's base, then build my first pylon in front of their base in plain sight, then proceed to proxy gate and play a normal game after that, and I still have a ridiculous win ratio. Might as well have some fun since I can't play enough to get my MMR bake to a normal level That's so fucked up. It should put you against masters after 10 wins in a row you would think. There's the problem. It's not just that mmr takes a long time to adjust, but you play low level opponents the whole way. You used to be able to hit gm like 2-3 times faster. Bomber had to win 19 GMs in a row on NA to get from diamond to masters. So this is pretty normal. If u don't believe me u can check his stream VoDs between end of january and early feb, if he has any You are now talking about different thing. With a fresh account starting from blank MMR the placement is conservative (it places you in lower league than your MMR is). Your MMR then changes much much more rapidly than normal. If you only win your MMR may rise very quickly to high master range. But at the 25th match (includes 5 placements) if you win it (you can only be promoted with a win) it will promote you to your actual league at earliest (25th match is the first possibility to get to master league, even if the MMR itself may have been in master range much earlier). Bomber likely had a fresh account and his MMR had risen very quickly to master range. But it did not promote him before the 25th match.
But after your MMR's change rate has normalized, it will take lots of games for it to rise.
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10x ex-master 1v1 Terran player here, I've been getting demoted ever since they implemented the decay, I don't play as much as I used to but my skill doesn't really 'decay' too much(15~ years of sc + I'm a gamer in general).
Last season I was dropped into platinum, I went 20-0 before my first loss to a 6pool in ZvZ where I went expo 1st, I was playing as Random. My point is that even when I offrace, I ROLL through these lower leagues.
I did get some losses once I got promoted to Diamond, but those guys were probably ex-master too, and I still sustained a very good record.
It's retarded, but hey Blizzard is happy!
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Was diamond last season and got demoted to silver.... No idea what's going on here. But it made me really sad.
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I love reading people's stories about how they belong in masters. Keep 'em coming guys!
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On April 28 2014 13:58 -RusH wrote: I love reading people's stories about how they belong in masters. Keep 'em coming guys! If David Kim weren't ruining eSports, I'd be #1 Masters. I have the mechanics of a Master's player, if it weren't for all those cheesy all-ins, AKA the Protoss race, I'd be #1 Masters.
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On April 28 2014 13:58 -RusH wrote: I love reading people's stories about how they belong in masters. Keep 'em coming guys!
So I thought you were just joking or whatever, then I read the thread and saw how many people say they deserve x rank haha.
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Meh, the whole decay thing is weird in my opinion. I used to play this game with a bit of competitive spirit. As a computer science student who isn't the brightest, I spend a lot of time in the labs working and can only play on the weekends, maybe a few games mid week if I am lucky.
I just fuck around with different races than my main now and do dumb shit. The game is hardly fun for me anymore because I enjoy the competitive nature of playing in masters and whatnot, and with decay I end up just undoing that inactivity instead of progressing.
I don't like bouncing around between playing golds - masters players often because I cannot play ALL the damn time. I get the smurfing discouraging, but there has to be a better way of implementing it. I've been a masters player since 2011 and it wasn't until decay that I got demoted.
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I think people are exaggerating like crazy in here. It's not that bad at all. I take breaks, get plat as my league on day 1 of a season reset, it takes me like 10 or so games to get back into dim, then 10 or so more games to get back to masters.
If you were really masters at the current meta, It would not take you that many games, regardless of your decay, only time it takes a long time is if you buy a fresh new account, then you would have to grind out many games like Bomber did, he was playing on a fresh account to mess around on NA, as many Koreans do that.
I have accounts I have not played since WOL, even those did not take me very long to grind back into masters this season. Maybe there is a small chance your own skills went down due to your guys "breaks"
I think there were far to many average players getting masters at the start of HOTS due to it being a new game and the mass amount of people playing getting into masters easily, when the game finally settled down and people knew the meta played well, that's when a lot of folks started to get demoted, then blizzard adds decay, so yeah if you really are a "current master player" you should have no issue.
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On April 28 2014 16:34 LingBlingBling wrote: I think people are exaggerating like crazy in here. It's not that bad at all. I take breaks, get plat as my league on day 1 of a season reset, it takes me like 10 or so games to get back into dim, then 10 or so more games to get back to masters.
If you were really masters at the current meta, It would not take you that many games, regardless of your decay, only time it takes a long time is if you buy a fresh new account, then you would have to grind out many games like Bomber did, he was playing on a fresh account to mess around on NA, as many Koreans do that.
I have accounts I have not played since WOL, even those did not take me very long to grind back into masters this season. Maybe there is a small chance your own skills went down due to your guys "breaks"
I think there were far to many average players getting masters at the start of HOTS due to it being a new game and the mass amount of people playing getting into masters easily, when the game finally settled down and people knew the meta played well, that's when a lot of folks started to get demoted, then blizzard adds decay, so yeah if you really are a "current master player" you should have no issue.
Now you are making stories or talking about accounts that faced MMR reset.
All accounts for which you have to play 5 placement matches have faced MMR reset (or are new). For those the MMR changes rapidly and you get to master range indeed with some 10 matches if you win most of those matches. And all HotS accounts start from blank MMR (WoL MMR is not carried over to HotS).
If you have an account that has more than 25 games (or little more) played after MMR reset, its MMR change rate has normalized and to progress over leagues will take lots of games. If that MMR is carried over via season placement and you get placed in platinum, it may be fast to get to diamond depending where you were in platinum range. If you were just under the threshold it may require 1 win. If you are at low plat range it may take 15 straight wins.
Diamond range is big. Its size almost doubled when Blizzard made offset changes few days after the start of last season. It will in general require 30 to 40 wins more than losses to pass the whole diamond range. Not 10 games (unless you start with blank MMR, when it may take less games than 10). Even if you are a top grandmaster based on skills, it will still require lots of games from you.
Edit: You may also be talking about your experiences regarding the offset / threshold change that happened few days after the start of last season. If you were a high range gold player just under the platinum threshold, in general you would have been promoted to diamond with one win after the offset change (I did not spent much time looking at how old MMR ranges mapped into new MMR ranges, but pretty much entire old platinum range was added to the diamond). The master threshold remained relatively the same thought.
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I thought MMR decay had a cap? Went from GM to Plat. Slightly unfair to the people I played in the following 18 games.
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On April 28 2014 17:20 duckk wrote: I thought MMR decay had a cap? Went from GM to Plat. Slightly unfair to the people I played in the following 18 games. It has a cap, which is ~310 MMR points in MMR tool scale (league MMR range size estimates: b 280 (negative MMR is possible thought), s 260, g 290, p 235, d 450).
Chain decay is also possible. To experience chain decay stop playing for more than 2 weeks. Then play 1 game and face decay. Then go inactive again for more than 2 weeks and face decay when you return.
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i´d never thought i would be so happy about that "being promoted to masters screen" once again. this time it was really hard.
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I hadn't played in months, and while I wasn't "demoted" I was placed into bronze. Thats ok, I have yet to lose.
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It has a lot to do with bonus pool. If your bonus pool is huge, you will get demoted, regardless how many pts you have.
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I got demoted too, but went promoted in the next game.
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I was kind of expecting to be put in diamond at the beginning of this season as last season I didn't play much and had a huge bonus pool and was getting a diamond player every 4-5 games but it put me in masters. My brother was diamond last season and it put him in gold though lol
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Did anyone else get promoted for no reason this season? I got promoted to Platinum just now after playing 9 games(4 today) this season(5 wins/4 loses) and i have 220 bonus pool.
Last season i played many more games and had over 70% winrate but stayed in gold.This doesn't make any sense to me.
I was Plat before all this MMR decay crap started though.Did they make changes to the matchmaking system again recently?
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i just know it tells me i'm in dia, but it doesn't show up in my portrait border and i apparently have -7 bonus pool
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So, what are peoples main issue?
They are in a league much lower than they feel they should be in. If that's the case, why can't they just play some games, win quickly and get promoted back? If you are truly in a league much lower than you should be, you should be able to get promoted very quickly. From reading this thread, there are 13 pages of diamond and masters kids that are all in gold league..
Is beating gold players too dififcult to get promoted so people rather cry here or do we have 13 pages of kind souls here that all feel bad about playing legit gold players and can't sleep at night b/c they are stealing gold players ladder points?
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On May 02 2014 23:48 DifuntO wrote: Did anyone else get promoted for no reason this season? I got promoted to Platinum just now after playing 9 games(4 today) this season(5 wins/4 loses) and i have 220 bonus pool.
Last season i played many more games and had over 70% winrate but stayed in gold.This doesn't make any sense to me.
I was Plat before all this MMR decay crap started though.Did they make changes to the matchmaking system again recently? Blizzard seems to have changed league offsets / thresholds last night. Thus people are promoted when they win their first match after the changes, if their MMR is inside the new higher league's MMR range. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21296149
On May 02 2014 23:54 GTPGlitch wrote: i just know it tells me i'm in dia, but it doesn't show up in my portrait border and i apparently have -7 bonus pool The bonus pool is calculated locally by the SC2 client. If your system clock is in incorrect time, it will show incorrect bonus pool.
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On May 03 2014 00:05 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2014 23:48 DifuntO wrote: Did anyone else get promoted for no reason this season? I got promoted to Platinum just now after playing 9 games(4 today) this season(5 wins/4 loses) and i have 220 bonus pool.
Last season i played many more games and had over 70% winrate but stayed in gold.This doesn't make any sense to me.
I was Plat before all this MMR decay crap started though.Did they make changes to the matchmaking system again recently? Blizzard seems to have changed league offsets / thresholds last night. Thus people are promoted when they win their first match after the changes, if their MMR is inside the new higher league's MMR range. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21296149
Ah,I see,that makes sense.It also explains why two of the people i played against got promoted after our match.
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Played placement match -> lost -> got demoted to gold
Played one game -> won -> got promoted back to plat.
It's really not that bad.
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Stopped playing for 11 months. MMR decayed so badly I went from rank 4 diamond to rank XX bronze. 2 games > silver > 2 more games > gold. Even though it demoted me, I get the feeling the game "knows" where I used to be and realizes I shouldn't be bronze level no matter how long it's been.
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