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On July 17 2014 04:41 Survivor61316 wrote: and I believe that the only reason its not played by more people is because the ladder system is to complicated.
Well, there's also quite a bunch of people that think starbow is a balance mess, with unlimited selection muta flocks, no good protoss response to zerg t3 and lurkers/marines having buffed up stats.
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It's sad when the Q&A is 5 times the size of the patch :-/
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David Kim's posts make me zzzzzz...
I'd be really glad if they had some other guy with better communication skills to tell people what they are doing.
Fun fact, DK used "we feel" term 25 times. And it makes me sad that balance of the game relies on what they're feeling rather than solid reasonings.
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On July 17 2014 18:30 saddaromma wrote: David Kim's posts make me zzzzzz...
I'd be really glad if they had some other guy with better communication skills to tell people what they are doing.
Fun fact, DK used "we feel" term 25 times. And it makes me sad that balance of the game relies on what they're feeling rather than solid reasonings.
He is just being humble and respecting other's opinions rather than considering everything he thinks as a given fact.
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On July 17 2014 12:32 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 12:20 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2014 12:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On July 17 2014 12:09 Plansix wrote: I do like his comment about carriers and BCs, that they are both kinda deathbally and not really a blast to watch. Cause its true. You kind of expect a little more analysis and insight from the man in charge after 4 years, though, don't you? Until he actually does something about it (makes the units more interesting, then makes them viable), all it really is is a reasonable excuse for doing nothing to improve the game. I'd have been more impressed if he'd said this... say, as they were tinkering with Tempest/new BC abilities for HOTS, when this brilliant realization could have actually been acted upon. The problem is "improving" things requires you to do a shit ton of testing. Because before you improve something, you need to make it shitty over and over and over. Since Blizzard is working on Hearthstone and Heroes, that time is not now. There is no awesome switch that they can just flip or just "take community suggests that are awesome, while not taking shitty ones" button either. There is a "take community suggests that are awesome, while not taking shitty ones" button. It's called Heart of the Swarm Beta. "Oops" isn't really a justifiable defense for not using it, as far as I'm concerned, especially not when they've never actually said "We didn't take enough advantage of it, but that'll change next time." I absolutely expect LOTV Beta to be the same polish-fest that WOL and HOTS Betas were.
This I agree with. I've been playing Blizzard games since Warcraft 1 and I feel that they completely wussed out with HotS. No Blizzard-made expansion has made fewer changes than HotS did (other than maybe Beyond the Dark Portal). Even the amount of attempted changes was depressingly low. They barely touched all the WoL units when designing HotS.
D3's RoS expansion made a lot of changes so it's just the SC2 team that decided not to make many changes with HotS. Maybe they procrastinated knowing they have another expansion planned to make fixes. But it feels like a wasted opportunity.
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On July 18 2014 00:08 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 12:32 pure.Wasted wrote:On July 17 2014 12:20 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2014 12:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On July 17 2014 12:09 Plansix wrote: I do like his comment about carriers and BCs, that they are both kinda deathbally and not really a blast to watch. Cause its true. You kind of expect a little more analysis and insight from the man in charge after 4 years, though, don't you? Until he actually does something about it (makes the units more interesting, then makes them viable), all it really is is a reasonable excuse for doing nothing to improve the game. I'd have been more impressed if he'd said this... say, as they were tinkering with Tempest/new BC abilities for HOTS, when this brilliant realization could have actually been acted upon. The problem is "improving" things requires you to do a shit ton of testing. Because before you improve something, you need to make it shitty over and over and over. Since Blizzard is working on Hearthstone and Heroes, that time is not now. There is no awesome switch that they can just flip or just "take community suggests that are awesome, while not taking shitty ones" button either. There is a "take community suggests that are awesome, while not taking shitty ones" button. It's called Heart of the Swarm Beta. "Oops" isn't really a justifiable defense for not using it, as far as I'm concerned, especially not when they've never actually said "We didn't take enough advantage of it, but that'll change next time." I absolutely expect LOTV Beta to be the same polish-fest that WOL and HOTS Betas were. This I agree with. I've been playing Blizzard games since Warcraft 1 and I feel that they completely wussed out with HotS. No Blizzard-made expansion has made fewer changes than HotS did (other than maybe Beyond the Dark Portal). Even the amount of attempted changes was depressingly low. They barely touched all the WoL units when designing HotS. D3's RoS expansion made a lot of changes so it's just the SC2 team that decided not to make many changes with HotS. Maybe they procrastinated knowing they have another expansion planned to make fixes. But it feels like a wasted opportunity.
Yeah Blizzard isn't the great company that we once knew and love.
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On July 17 2014 11:56 sc2isnotdying wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 08:58 TopRamen wrote: A game of SC2 has feedback that is just too wild for a great competitive game. It's a pretty balanced game between players A and B until A or B makes a move that gives them an insurmountable lead and they can then bludgeon their opponent to death with their unstoppable force.
An ideal game progression is one where the lead changes hands but the better player eventually wins. I disagree. Honestly, it's not all that important that the better player eventually wins. This is not the case in Football(American or World), Poker, Settlers of Catan, or any number of popular competitive games. I would agree that good game design should avoid snowballing and award skill, but a great game should also be dramatic, unpredictable and open to any number of dynamic strategies. It looks like LoTV is going to take multiplayer in a bit of more hardcore direction. This makes sense. Any number of casual players have left and at this point they're not coming back. (Though they should come back for the campaign. Give Blizzard credit; HoTS was a sizable improvement on WOL as a single player game) It was ambitious of Blizzard to think that a multiplayer RTS would have lasting appeal to "casual" gamers. I would expect some more micro-intensive units for LoTV. Which is not to say LoTV should turn SC2 into BW. I don't think I'd play the game if had BW's terrible pathing. Or if it didn't have auto-mining for that matter.
Well I guess it depends on what your definition of a 'better' player is.
I don't think we can say for sure that LoTV is going to take multiplayer in a hardcore direction. We still haven't seen anything, all we've heard is talk.
Any emphasis on the 'casual' gaming audience is a mistake. BW became a great competitive and casual game at the same time without the help of Blizzard.
HoTS was a sizable improvement at first, then slowly turned into WoLs stale metagame later.
I don't expect many micro-intensive units, because of the engine's limitations.
Pathing is a tricky issue, I understand from a programmer's perspective you want things to run smoothly. But on the other hand, bad pathing makes gathering up troops harder, creating sort of a supply-line esque feel to it. I don't know how to make an elegant solution that has smooth pathing and keep the benefit of a supply-line feel. Starbow tried a couple of things but they weren't very graceful.
Auto-mining you can keep. I don't think auto-mining does much in the long run.
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I think HotS is a sizeable improvement on WoL, which was already a great game (at least for me). I have no doubt that LotV will further improve gameplay and enjoyability so SC2 can definitely be the a supreme RTS.
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Protoss crying??? Even map is good for terran, can this change game balanced?? Protoss is balanced for foreigner maybe ,however for korean it is really hard to beat protoss.especially Warping unit really make game easy for protoss. Macro level b protoss can even beat top terran player with warp gate all in
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In Diamond league I've noticed some things. The terran players' skill level is amazing in comparison to the TvZs and TvPs I'm playing... I've seen awesome marine tank positioning and micro the sort I just haven't seen from the other players. Zerg keeps trying to suicide 100 of his banes and protoss havent been doing much other than massing Zealot/Templar once they lose their armies and 'A' moving forward...
For the players that are playing well... for their sake... we need this patch as a community to be a success...
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"For the widow mine on the other hand, we received a lot of feedback saying that this is too much of a problem in TvZ in Heart of the Swarm. While we received many feedbacks from the players and community, we also felt that it was too strong, leading us to nerf the widow mine. However, for that instance, we feel that maybe it would have been better to leave it up to the players a little bit more. This is because when the widow mine came into the game, while it helped Terrans win more agaist Zerg, the match itself was really exciting with endless action from about the 10 minute mark. Since there was many fun matches, we feel that maybe it would have been better to wait."
This is the only part of the interview that I found debatable and a little dangerous. The reason why you should have let the widow mine like it was isn't that the game was fun. The reason is that zerg was doing good enough against it without a change, and the widow mine didn't look like it "helped terran win more games against zerg" anymore.
If you start balancing through excitement, you will be faced with the problem that excitement isn't balanced for all races. The majority of the audience likes terran, so they will be more excited when terrans play. A lot of people hate PvP, so excitement will drop fast anytime protoss does well. You should be doing the same test when terran looks like it's overpowered and when protoss looks like it's overpowered, otherwise the whole process makes no sense.
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I quit playing HotS after the initial season after beta because the game was just inconsistent. Countless imbalances were there and the unit compositions were always the same, never any rough changes in that matter.
Coming back playing after that, I still see the same thing going on. This is a problem and it shows that Blizzard hasn't really paid much attention to the actual gameplay.
It could be people living the past, or it could be it doesnt need to be changed because Blizzard feels it works, or it could be some underlying fact, but I still see the same stuff used and done in majority of games.
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To be honest, this interview gives me hope that the game will be fun again in the future. The answers from David kim are less political chosen than in his previous Q&A's and more understanding what the community wants.
Crossing my fingers!~!!!
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On July 17 2014 16:55 19Meavis93 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 04:41 Survivor61316 wrote: and I believe that the only reason its not played by more people is because the ladder system is to complicated.
Well, there's also quite a bunch of people that think starbow is a balance mess, with unlimited selection muta flocks, no good protoss response to zerg t3 and lurkers/marines having buffed up stats.
And people like me who just find it much less fun and awesome than SC2 ^^
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be the best interview DK has given so far. Sure, it's nothing special, but it's definitely an improvement over the previous ones.
It gives me hope that LOTV will be even better. (Cause, you know, "SC2 is a bad game" that for some reason I and tens of thounsands of people keep playing 4 years after it's launch).
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On July 17 2014 12:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 12:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On July 17 2014 12:09 Plansix wrote: I do like his comment about carriers and BCs, that they are both kinda deathbally and not really a blast to watch. Cause its true. You kind of expect a little more analysis and insight from the man in charge after 4 years, though, don't you? Until he actually does something about it (makes the units more interesting, then makes them viable), all it really is is a reasonable excuse for doing nothing to improve the game. I'd have been more impressed if he'd said this... say, as they were tinkering with Tempest/new BC abilities for HOTS, when this brilliant realization could have actually been acted upon. The problem is "improving" things requires you to do a shit ton of testing. Because before you improve something, you need to make it shitty over and over and over. Since Blizzard is working on Hearthstone and Heroes, that time is not now. There is no awesome switch that they can just flip or just "take community suggests that are awesome, while not taking shitty ones" button either. And you do know the reason why he doesn't elaborate right? English is his second language. He speaks English well, but you can tell he runs up against the limits of his vocabulary a lot. You can tell because he uses a lot of the same adjectives over and over.
not like the interview wasn't in english to begin with.
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On July 17 2014 03:22 Musicus wrote:I feel rather good now about LotV since they seem to work hard on it and test a lot. Considering iNcontrol once said, Blizzard didn't plan any major changes or new units in LotV, they definitely changed their plans for the better. New (or old ) units and a more micro intensive Protoss race! If they somehow change warpgate and forcefield, it might become great. Can I interest you in some property I'm trying to sell?
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Man, it was really nice to hear him admit that the Broodlord Infestor was awful and allowed to go on far too long, and that they widow mine nerf was a knee jerk in response to not wanting to wait too long. Good stuff. I regained some of my faith here. While the upcoming patch I truly don't believe will do much for TvP, I'm at least going to try the mine and see what it does.
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Well that interview wasn't bad overall.. Hopefully we get to see the stuff they've been working on for LotV at this year's Blizzcon
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Sweden33719 Posts
On July 18 2014 00:08 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2014 12:32 pure.Wasted wrote:On July 17 2014 12:20 Plansix wrote:On July 17 2014 12:14 pure.Wasted wrote:On July 17 2014 12:09 Plansix wrote: I do like his comment about carriers and BCs, that they are both kinda deathbally and not really a blast to watch. Cause its true. You kind of expect a little more analysis and insight from the man in charge after 4 years, though, don't you? Until he actually does something about it (makes the units more interesting, then makes them viable), all it really is is a reasonable excuse for doing nothing to improve the game. I'd have been more impressed if he'd said this... say, as they were tinkering with Tempest/new BC abilities for HOTS, when this brilliant realization could have actually been acted upon. The problem is "improving" things requires you to do a shit ton of testing. Because before you improve something, you need to make it shitty over and over and over. Since Blizzard is working on Hearthstone and Heroes, that time is not now. There is no awesome switch that they can just flip or just "take community suggests that are awesome, while not taking shitty ones" button either. There is a "take community suggests that are awesome, while not taking shitty ones" button. It's called Heart of the Swarm Beta. "Oops" isn't really a justifiable defense for not using it, as far as I'm concerned, especially not when they've never actually said "We didn't take enough advantage of it, but that'll change next time." I absolutely expect LOTV Beta to be the same polish-fest that WOL and HOTS Betas were. This I agree with. I've been playing Blizzard games since Warcraft 1 and I feel that they completely wussed out with HotS. No Blizzard-made expansion has made fewer changes than HotS did (other than maybe Beyond the Dark Portal). Even the amount of attempted changes was depressingly low. They barely touched all the WoL units when designing HotS. D3's RoS expansion made a lot of changes so it's just the SC2 team that decided not to make many changes with HotS. Maybe they procrastinated knowing they have another expansion planned to make fixes. But it feels like a wasted opportunity. How is HotS not at least as big a change as BW?
BW: Terran: Medics Valkyries Charon Boosters for Goliaths
Zerg: Lurkers Devourers I thiiiiiiiiink ultra armor upgrade was a BW upgrade? I'm not sure about that tho.
Protoss: DTs Dark Archons Corsairs
You could argue that the medic/lurker/dt made a bigger change to play styles than the HotS units, but I'm not really sure about that... The MSC change is bigger than any of them, and the rest are close at least.
TFT was a true game changer, they recognized some problems with the game and really made a big overhaul (if I recall correctly, they brought on Zileas for that and he was in charge of the overhaul?)
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