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On July 24 2014 10:44 [PkF] Wire wrote:Please Jessica, I know it must be painful to be told "your map as it stood was not suited for competitive play", like it must be painful for the mother of a mentally crippled child to be told the truth by a physician, but balance and gameplay issues on horizontal spawns were blatant. Variety is welcome but must not come at the price of a fair competitive environment.
So blatant that no one noticed them until the map got on ladder? Please.
The only map that has been reasonably decent for terran now has been thoroughly nerfed because some zergs cannot adapt. Sigh.
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On July 24 2014 05:22 TheFish7 wrote: Don't understand the foxtrot change.
I think the problem is that the gold base is much easier to take for one player than the other in horizontal spawns
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On July 24 2014 11:02 JessicaSc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 10:44 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 24 2014 09:57 JessicaSc2 wrote: who needs variety anyway... Please Jessica, I know it must be painful to be told "your map as it stood was not suited for competitive play", like it must be painful for the mother of a mentally crippled child to be told the truth by a physician, but balance and gameplay issues on horizontal spawns were blatant. Variety is welcome but must not come at the price of a fair competitive environment. So blatant that no one noticed them until the map got on ladder? Please. The only map that has been reasonably decent for terran now has been thoroughly nerfed because some zergs cannot adapt. Sigh.
Before going to ladder, these maps were not played by pros... now it's the case and i think they want map with balance not T/Z/P favored (just because the mapmacker is T/Z/P).
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I really liked deadwing horrizontal positions and now its just another map that both sides go to super macro mode. That game of Taeja vs Solar was really good because it played out in a non standard way, it was something new and exciting although I would assume that Tempest mostly was the reason for the change :D that thing is such an annoyance early game and when its built right next to go makes you wanna go QXC on your keyboard
when does this and mine buff go live?
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On July 24 2014 15:23 Scoobers wrote: when does this and mine buff go live? By the end of the week.
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On July 24 2014 15:33 Faust852 wrote:By the end of the week. I kind of still hope they change their mind and buff tank and thor in TvZ so we dont see mines... Then again Protoss needs those mines to scare them so theyre forced to stay more honest in PvT
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all maps right now are good for terran (compared to all seasons in hots before) this is blizzards attempt to get some more race stats around 50%. Terran right now with lets say the maps of season 2 hots would just get wrecked every game... im not a big fan of balancing by maps...
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On July 24 2014 15:51 KOtical wrote: all maps right now are good for terran (compared to all seasons in hots before) this is blizzards attempt to get some more race stats around 50%. Terran right now with lets say the maps of season 2 hots would just get wrecked every game... im not a big fan of balancing by maps... There is a huge patch coming up soon dude.
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On July 24 2014 15:51 KOtical wrote: all maps right now are good for terran (compared to all seasons in hots before) this is blizzards attempt to get some more race stats around 50%. Terran right now with lets say the maps of season 2 hots would just get wrecked every game... im not a big fan of balancing by maps...
Brood War was balanced by maps for like 10 years. It works fine.
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I'm curious about the instantaneous reaction to Deadwing's horizontal spawns. Terrans had to put up with over two seasons of Blink builds. Why shouldn't other races have to put up with very strong new Terran builds for months as they work to figure out a viable response? I hope I don't need to remind anyone that Blink wasn't just OK, it was very strong.
Usually people jump all over the "let pros figure out a response even if it takes a year" option. I haven't seen enough games on Deadwing, but is it really so impossible that Zergs will figure out a way to play that map? If we give them six months?
On July 25 2014 03:58 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 15:51 KOtical wrote: all maps right now are good for terran (compared to all seasons in hots before) this is blizzards attempt to get some more race stats around 50%. Terran right now with lets say the maps of season 2 hots would just get wrecked every game... im not a big fan of balancing by maps... Brood War was balanced by maps for like 10 years. It works fine.
There are definitely some disadvantages to balancing by maps. It's an imprecise art. Take Blink Stalker all-ins - the only way to balance that through map design also made it more difficult to scout in TvP.
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On July 25 2014 03:58 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 15:51 KOtical wrote: all maps right now are good for terran (compared to all seasons in hots before) this is blizzards attempt to get some more race stats around 50%. Terran right now with lets say the maps of season 2 hots would just get wrecked every game... im not a big fan of balancing by maps... Brood War was balanced by maps for like 10 years. It works fine.
I really wish people would stop using this example, starcraft2 isn't brood war and many things, if not all, can't be balanced by maps in SC2.
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1. Deadwing LE horizontal spawns disabled.
Is this not implemented? I still face ppl on horizontal spawns, can't say i dislike it tho
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8713 Posts
On July 25 2014 16:17 19Meavis93 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 03:58 DinoMight wrote:On July 24 2014 15:51 KOtical wrote: all maps right now are good for terran (compared to all seasons in hots before) this is blizzards attempt to get some more race stats around 50%. Terran right now with lets say the maps of season 2 hots would just get wrecked every game... im not a big fan of balancing by maps... Brood War was balanced by maps for like 10 years. It works fine. I really wish people would stop using this example, starcraft2 isn't brood war and many things, if not all, can't be balanced by maps in SC2. We don't know if it's a limitation of the game. It's the community that has prevented SC2 from being balanced by maps so far. Players and fans have to be willing to put up with longer periods of imbalance and have to be able to use a map that seems imbalanced for a full season (and not let it just get vetoed every match). If people can't accept those things, then they have to accept having a more static and stale game.
Knee-jerk reactions happen because a new map comes along with terrain that massively benefits a prevailing strategy/build/tactic on only one side of a matchup. This isn't fair. The idea is to make the disadvantaged race play another style or build where that change is irrelevant, or figure out a new tactic for nullifying the advantage, or invent a whole new style or build, and then some of that knowledge can be used on other maps too and the disadvantaged race actually comes out ahead because they were forced to innovate and improve. If players aren't willing to go through the struggle and fans aren't willing to watch it then there's no point.
Players were throwing in the towel way too early, especially in the context of a veto system that means the impact on competitive play would have been minimal anyway.
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On July 24 2014 15:23 Scoobers wrote: I really liked deadwing horrizontal positions and now its just another map that both sides go to super macro mode. That game of Taeja vs Solar was really good because it played out in a non standard way, it was something new and exciting although I would assume that Tempest mostly was the reason for the change :D that thing is such an annoyance early game and when its built right next to go makes you wanna go QXC on your keyboard
when does this and mine buff go live?
No the reason is because deadwing on horizontal positions was incredibly imbalanced in Terrans favor vs zerg, can parade push with tanks for a free win on that map vs zerg. Solar prob wishes those changes happened before IEM.
QUOTE]On July 26 2014 00:09 Skynx wrote: 1. Deadwing LE horizontal spawns disabled.
Is this not implemented? I still face ppl on horizontal spawns, can't say i dislike it tho [/QUOTE]
Patch is not out yet, Think they said 10:30 pst for NA. Not sure about EU/KR times.
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Why is there so many 4 player maps this season and not 2 player maps?. Very strange. Any feedback would be great
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On July 26 2014 01:48 StorKK wrote:Why is there so many 4 player maps this season and not 2 player maps?. Very strange. Any feedback would be great Diversity, allowing for more options in mapmaking, less prone to split maps, allows for more metagaming opportunities.
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i see, so overall they wanna se more macrogames?
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On July 26 2014 01:48 StorKK wrote:Why is there so many 4 player maps this season and not 2 player maps?. Very strange. Any feedback would be great Still less than the average BW map pool!
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On July 26 2014 01:56 StorKK wrote: i see, so overall they wanna se more macrogames? They want to see more interesting macrogames.
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