When the Taiwan Open was announced, no one was expecting a foreigner victory. Who could blame them? Half of the participants were Korean. Among those 5 were world class champions: Taeja, Jaedong, Leenock, Hyun and Bomber. Taeja all-killed Dreamhack Summer without dropping a map, then won the hardest IEM to date. Jaedong has been placing top 4 in his recent tournament runs and has masterful ZvZ. Hyun has had 10 top 3 finishes this year alone. Bomber just got second at WCS NA. And while TRUE may not have a championship, he got to the semi-finals of a GSL.
It was supposed to be another tick. Just one more victory before Korea closed in for a second consecutive All Kill like they had done in 2013. But it was not to be as Sen flipped the script and instead came crashing through the gates as he ran over Cheetos, Bomber, Has and Hyun to win his first ever Premier tournament and the first foreigner to do so since Snute in 2012.
Not Your Usual Weekend
Day 1 began with the greatest possible surprise: TaeJa was out in the very first match of the tournament. Yes, it was against Leenock, an adopted Taiwanese, but the Liquid terran was undoubtedly one of the picks to win another 10k. Though there had been concerns about his health since his absence from the ATC Finals, this was the first time he'd exited an event at the first hurdle for as long as we could remember. One more Korean fell later in the day when DeParture, a whipping boy in Proleague, succumbed to the experienced Ian. They traded games of fast pools against hatch first before closing the series with a macro game, and the Taiwanese zerg looked superior in ousting the new MVP recruit.
The most anticipated match of the first round, however, was Bomber vs TRUE. It was a matchup that would have belonged in the later rounds of most tournaments, but it was a Ro16 match in Taipei. Bomber would best the Jin Air Zerg in 3 games, though they would split the two macro games. As expected, TRUE won on Overgrowth when he was able to amass a frightening amount of banelings, but Bomber battered him easily when he decided to use roaches. Along with Pet's defeat at the hands of Jaedong, this meant that half the Korean contingent was already out.
By the end of the day, however, only HyuN would remain. The Spider Zerg squeaked past Leenock in the first match of the Ro8, but the successful ROCCAT zerg was the overwhelming favorite to many. But the next two series would shock everyone but the hometown crowd as Ian defeated Jaedong 2-1 and Sen swept Bomber 2-0. The two best Taiwanese players proved their mettle in their respective series, and the result was well deserved.
Against Jaedong, Ian used two early pools on Merry Go Round and Overgrowth. In game 1, Jaedong opted for the greediest possible opening with hatch, gas, and drones before his pool, and the brilliant decision from Ian not to use his banelings on drones dissuaded the EG zerg from building lings and relying on queens alone. In game 2, Jaedong held the pressure and allowed his economic advantage to overwhelm his opponent. The Flash Wolves zerg looked like a one trick pony, but he would prove his doubters wrong on King Sejong Station. After an even early and mid game, a brilliant roach sandwich by Ian caught Jaedong by surprise, and the Tyrant's army was destroyed with a whimper. Ian's superior tech with infestors and hydras contributed to his upset victory, but his positioning was decisive. Sen followed his countryman in 2 games. Merry Go Round was an intense back and forth like the best of TvZs until some meaty baneling hits irreversibly swung the momentum in his favor. Bomber looked certain to grab a game back with his proxy reaper, but he was unable to take advantage. Some poor engagements from Bomber gave Sen the leeway to take an upgrade advantage, and some excellent creep spread ensured the Red Bull terran had no avenue for attack. Sen simply stalked Bomber the entire game and drowned him in a stream of units.
To close out the day, Has played like Has and bamboozled Fist.
Looking solely at the list of semi finalists, it looked par for course for a Taiwanese tournament. HyuN was the token Korean while Sen, Ian, and Has were there. But looking at the round of 16, this outcome seemed difficult to imagine possible. HyuN continued his rampage against Ian, defeating the Taiwanese zerg in 4 games. No amount of trickery was able to save the Flash Wolves zerg, and HyuN looked like the best ZvZ player in the tournament. Sen, on the other hand, handily defeated three different races to make the finals, proving too smart to fall for Has' devious strategies. Sen managed to counter every wrench, sink and crowbar Has could throw at him with superior positioning and defensive play. It didn't matter if it was 4gate DTs, a normal 4gate, an immortal sentry push, or a fake cannon rush; Sen figured it out and held it all. It was a surprising path to the finals for one of our most experienced players in a tournament filled with zergs, but he would have to defeat one more to have his trophy.
The Last ZvZ
Game one of the grand finals was an extremely quick affair. On Overgrowth, HyuN opened with a 10 pool with a fast follow up baneling nest to bring the pressure to Sen and Sen perhaps unluckily decided to go with a hatchery first. Although there were a few times where it looked like Sen could hold the attack HyuN's pressure was relentless, Sen's zergling micro was lackluster losing several large packs to baneling detonations, and the build order advantage was too strong as HyuN put himself up 1-0 in the series.
In game two on King Sejong Station HyuN apparently thought, "If it ain't broke don't fix it". Sen countered with, "If it is broke, fix it and break the thing the other guy is doing". HyuN went for the same 10 pool baneling build while Sen went hatch first. This time, however, Sen's micro was immaculate as he brushed aside HyuN's attack with drones and lings of his own. From there, Sen's vastly superior economy snowballed out of control and he was able to win the game with a large pack of zerglings.
Game three on Merry Go Round held the first roach sighting of the series, as Sen opted to go for a low tech mass roach attack early on. HyuN only needed to hold on for a short time, as his lair and his upgrades were well ahead of Sen's, but Sen had the much larger army. HyuN decided to make a high number of zerglings to keep his opponent on his own side of the map for as long as possible. When Sen's attack came, HyuN's queens provided much needed transfusions and he was able to push Sen back despite losing his third, and counterattacked with his well upgraded roaches to take the series lead right back.
Once again Sen innovated quickly in game four. Both players opened hatch/pool and moved towards roach play, but Sen hit an interesting timing with a huge amount of zerglings that killed HyuN's third hatch, took out a ton of queens, and decimated HyuN's early roach and zergling numbers. After that, Sen prepared for a 2/1 mass roach push. When Sen's push arrived, HyuN was still trying to recover from his earlier losses and couldn't cope with Sen's maxed out roach force, and conceded the game and the series was tied up 2-2.
In game five the games continued to be traded back and forth as HyuN opted to get aggressive once again. Both players opened hatch first, but Sen went for a third prior to getting a baneling nest and HyuN was having none of it. With a crisp and quick two-base baneling bust, HyuN rapidly killed off queens, drones, and zerglings alike and Sen tapped out to give HyuN match point with the series at 3-2.
Game six progressed as many ZvZs do into the roach vs roach phase. Sen and Hyun traded blows with neither player seeming to get the edge. Then two key events happened back to back: Sen cornered a large portion of HyuN's roaches burrowed and unable to escape, and then HyuN elected to send his remaining roaches into the main and third of Sen to snipe tech and kill drones. Although he was able to kill the roach warren, the move left him drastically behind in army supply. HyuN attempted to go for banelings to counter the hydras of Sen, but Sen pushed too quickly for HyuN to pull it off and his superior army won out in the end, and the series was tied at 3 games each.
In the final game Sen did what he had done in so much of the series to that point: adapt and improve. Faced with the same baneling bust that demolished him so quickly in game five, Sen canceled his third base, built spine crawlers, and showcased excellent micro to hold all of HyuN's aggression. With a faster transition into roaches and a stronger economy off the back of that hold, Sen was able to push out with a massive army to attempt to kill a crippled HyuN. HyuN put up a wall of eight spine crawlers to try to hold on, but Sen walked right past them into HyuN's main and HyuN had no choice but to GG and concede the finals to Sen with a score of 4-3!
The Last of His Kind
SC2 is a harsh competitive scene that is in a constant state of flux as strategies develop, mechanical skill increases, patches come and go, expansions are added and maps are cycled in and out. Because of this most players find it all but impossible to stay consistent over a long period of time. Most find it hard to stay consistent over a matter of months. Just look at the most recent GSL Champion, Classic. In the span of one season he went from the winning GSL to getting kicked out of the ro32 by Shine. And the foreigner scene is no exception. The longest period of dominance any foreigner player has had was Stephano's 1.5 years from mid 2011 to the end of 2012. Beyond him were players like: Idra, Jinro, Huk, Thorzain, Naniwa, Vortix, Snute and Scarlett. Players who for the most part have gone through waves of success and slumps. No one can stay at the top forever, it is literally and figuratively impossible.
And that is what makes Sen an anomaly. Sen never reached the extreme heights of success those foreigners have. He just never had the chance or support to travel all over the world and participate in events like DH or MLG or IEM. Yet when he could go, Sen has proven time and time and time again that he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath with players like Stephano or Naniwa or Scarlett. Third place in NASL 1 and NASL 2. Third at Blizzcon. 4th in WCS 2012. 1st in ECL and now 1st place in the Taiwanese Open.
And Sen has been here since the beginning. He was one of the few foreigner players to have qualified for the original GSL Open Seasons and one of the oldest players in the game today (27). With his victory at the Taiwan open, Sen is now the first foreigner player in 2014 to have won both a Major and Premier tournament. A testament to the amount of time and effort Sen has put into this game and a victory that will permanently cement his place as one of the best foreigner players SC2 has ever produced.
Today on 8.8.2014, Sen stopped the atomic clock and prevented the 2014 Korean All-Kill.
I managed to tune up only for the finals, that was amazing and very surprising! you just kept waiting for Hyun to close it up. It was a terrible day to have a tournament' and it was very unhyped which is quite sad considering.
The premier tournament distinction seems silly when talking about the Korean all kill. Foreigners have won tournaments this year that were much more loaded with Koreans than this one (and with a better race distribution).
Unfortunately the English channel is only 360p even though the live broadcast was at HD. The Chinese channel is 1080p though, so I muted the Chinese channel and listened to the English channel, which was hosted by Artosis and Tasteless.
The 7-game final between Hyun and Sen was one for the ages. From one hatch-baneling rush to four-hatch macro games, they were evenly matched in every game and throughout the series. The fact that the neither of them could win two straight games until Sen took the 7th and decisive battle attests to the adaptability of both players. Artosis actually alluded to that several times during the broadcast.
The series itself had a certain flow to it. It's like two heavyweight boxers - they were both throwing jabs in the first two games and a few straights in the 3rd and 4th. After an unexpected uppercut by Hyun in the 5th, both threw several haymkers in the epic 6th game... finally the series concluded by Sen's perfect counter-punch in the 7th game.
I hope I have piqued our interest without spoiling the match
This is definitely one of the better ZvZ that I have seen. Trust me you will not be disappointed.
Sen played awesome and he is well deserving of the win and the glory.
The Taiwan players showed they were the greater force over koreans this event. Ian taking out Departure and Jaedong while Sen took out Bomber and HyuN.
I'm lookingforward to seeing if players like Ian and Sen can replicate their achievement in a tournament that is more stacked with koreans than with taiwanese.
Not willing to take anything away from Sen, but isn't Gfinity considered to be at least a major/premier tournament? (regarding the "another tick on the clock"-stuff)
On August 10 2014 19:30 boxerfred wrote: Not willing to take anything away from Sen, but isn't Gfinity considered to be at least a major/premier tournament? (regarding the "another tick on the clock"-stuff)
Imo Gfinity was more stacked than the Taiwan one, but since G3 was almost invitee I kinda understand why it isn't considered a premier event.
Gratz Sen! but holy crud that is a LOT of zvz. i like watching the matchup (at least i used to like it), but i think taht tournament would have been overkill...
I think now Sen does not need to prove that he earns a place in the foreign sc2 hall of fame. I want to see him and Snute in this year Global Finals! #BELIEVE
Are we that desperate to claim a victory that this tournament is a premiere win for foreigners? This with G3 article seem to want to sensationalize everything instead of analyze and inform.
I guess it isn't a bad step, eSports needs to commercialize to become the large entity that we wished for. However, I do miss a less biased TL.
On August 11 2014 07:05 yido wrote: Are we that desperate to claim a victory that this tournament is a premiere win for foreigners? This with G3 article seem to want to sensationalize everything instead of analyze and inform.
I guess it isn't a bad step, eSports needs to commercialize to become the large entity that we wished for. However, I do miss a less biased TL.
It's in the list of Premier Tournaments. A foreigner won it.
On August 11 2014 07:05 yido wrote: Are we that desperate to claim a victory that this tournament is a premiere win for foreigners? This with G3 article seem to want to sensationalize everything instead of analyze and inform.
I guess it isn't a bad step, eSports needs to commercialize to become the large entity that we wished for. However, I do miss a less biased TL.
It's in the list of Premier Tournaments. A foreigner won it.
Don't know what else you want, my friend.
Maybe winning more than 2 series against Koreans. Or not have the brackets in a hilarious fashion. Or a more reasonable race distribution. Or have more players on the WCS ranking.
On August 11 2014 07:05 yido wrote: Are we that desperate to claim a victory that this tournament is a premiere win for foreigners? This with G3 article seem to want to sensationalize everything instead of analyze and inform.
I guess it isn't a bad step, eSports needs to commercialize to become the large entity that we wished for. However, I do miss a less biased TL.
It's in the list of Premier Tournaments. A foreigner won it.
Don't know what else you want, my friend.
Maybe winning more than 2 series against Koreans. Or not have the brackets in a hilarious fashion. Or a more reasonable race distribution. Or have more players on the WCS ranking.
not sure what bothers you so much about foreigner positivity. anyone can read the brackets and draw their own conclusions about the strength of the competition. "analyze and inform"? pro gaming is entertainment, man. let's be real, without hype and narratives no one would follow a bunch of teens and twentysomethings playing video games. if people want to be hype about moderately hard tournaments being taken by foreign players, what harm could possibly come to anyone from that?
i fail to see what anyone gains from this kind of backseat naysaying. it seems like negativity to no end or purpose other than shitting on others' enjoyment. feel free to rebut, though
Congrats to Sen for winning TW tournament, but I really hoped he keeps this mood in a long run. 2 days later he couldn't even make it to playoffs in HongKong Tournament
On August 11 2014 07:05 yido wrote: Are we that desperate to claim a victory that this tournament is a premiere win for foreigners? This with G3 article seem to want to sensationalize everything instead of analyze and inform.
I guess it isn't a bad step, eSports needs to commercialize to become the large entity that we wished for. However, I do miss a less biased TL.
It's in the list of Premier Tournaments. A foreigner won it.
Don't know what else you want, my friend.
Maybe winning more than 2 series against Koreans. Or not have the brackets in a hilarious fashion. Or a more reasonable race distribution. Or have more players on the WCS ranking.
Seems you're just desperate to rain on Sen's parade.
Definition:
Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community.
Having the best players is debatable. Though I would think having 4 top 16 WCS players (Taeja, Hyun, Bomber, Jaedong), a veteran Zerg (Leenock) and a recent gsl semifinalist (TRUE) is decent enough. So on that alone it's a premiere win.
Also, none of the Koreans played more than 1 of their own either and Sen was the only person to play all 3 matchups. I don't see how racial distribution has anything to do with this. Should we say, "Screw MMA's gsl win"? He won the most imbalanced season of gsl ever, only playing 1 non-TvT match (that he lost).
4 invites, 4 qualified, 8 from TeSL. Taiwan is dominated by zergs, so it was 7 zerg 1 protoss from TeSL. Strangely, 4 zergs also advanced from the qualifiers. They also invited 2 other zergs in HyuN and Jaedong. It was a bizarre coincidence.
On August 11 2014 11:16 lichter wrote: 4 invites, 4 qualified, 8 from TeSL. Taiwan is dominated by zergs, so it was 7 zerg 1 protoss from TeSL. Strangely, 4 zergs also advanced from the qualifiers. They also invited 2 other zergs in HyuN and Jaedong. It was a bizarre coincidence.
It's Not bizarre coincidence at all. Sen cannot defeat Korean Protoss in SC2, plain and simple. Parting owned Sen plenty of times. Naturally only Korean T and Z got the invites. Sad for Korean Protoss like sOs failed in the qualifier. Hence, do you see any Korean Protoss in the top 8?
On August 11 2014 11:16 lichter wrote: 4 invites, 4 qualified, 8 from TeSL. Taiwan is dominated by zergs, so it was 7 zerg 1 protoss from TeSL. Strangely, 4 zergs also advanced from the qualifiers. They also invited 2 other zergs in HyuN and Jaedong. It was a bizarre coincidence.
It's Not bizarre coincidence at all. Sen cannot defeat Korean Protoss in SC2, plain and simple. Parting owned Sen plenty of times. Naturally only Korean T and Z got the invites. Sad for Korean Protoss like sOs failed in the qualifier. Hence, do you see any Korean Protoss in the top 8?
Are you being purposefully dense? Or do you actually believe the BS that just came out of your fingertips?
On August 11 2014 11:16 lichter wrote: 4 invites, 4 qualified, 8 from TeSL. Taiwan is dominated by zergs, so it was 7 zerg 1 protoss from TeSL. Strangely, 4 zergs also advanced from the qualifiers. They also invited 2 other zergs in HyuN and Jaedong. It was a bizarre coincidence.
It's Not bizarre coincidence at all. Sen cannot defeat Korean Protoss in SC2, plain and simple. Parting owned Sen plenty of times. Naturally only Korean T and Z got the invites. Sad for Korean Protoss like sOs failed in the qualifier. Hence, do you see any Korean Protoss in the top 8?
It's unfortunate none of the Korean Protoss players qualified, but I failed to see your point.
You seem to suggest that there is a conspiracy of sort by connecting something over which the organizer had no control (that none of the Korean Protoss qualified) with the fact that Sen cannot beat Korean Protoss (which is true). Unless you know that the organizer somehow fixed the qualification process, I don't see how you can claim it's not a coincidence...
TESL had no terrain player as far as I know, so I could see why they invited two Terrain players - because they knew they would only get Zerg and Protoss out of the Taiwanese side. I mean, if they didn't, there would be no Terrian player at all, making an even more racially imbalanced tournament.
If you want to gripe about the invites for Hyun and Jaedong and believe the organizer should have invited two Protoss players, that's fine... but to say it's not a coincidence is akin to saying that the organizer should be able to predict the results of the qualifier. And that's just not a logical argument.
On August 11 2014 11:16 lichter wrote: 4 invites, 4 qualified, 8 from TeSL. Taiwan is dominated by zergs, so it was 7 zerg 1 protoss from TeSL. Strangely, 4 zergs also advanced from the qualifiers. They also invited 2 other zergs in HyuN and Jaedong. It was a bizarre coincidence.
It's Not bizarre coincidence at all. Sen cannot defeat Korean Protoss in SC2, plain and simple. Parting owned Sen plenty of times. Naturally only Korean T and Z got the invites. Sad for Korean Protoss like sOs failed in the qualifier. Hence, do you see any Korean Protoss in the top 8?
It's unfortunate none of the Korean Protoss players qualified, but I failed to see your point.
You seem to suggest that there is a conspiracy of sort by connecting something over which the organizer had no control (that none of the Korean Protoss qualified) with the fact that Sen cannot beat Korean Protoss (which is true). Unless you know that the organizer somehow fixed the qualification process, I don't see how you can claim it's not a coincidence...
TESL had no terrain player as far as I know, so I could see why they invited two Terrain players - because they knew they would only get Zerg and Protoss out of the Taiwanese side. I mean, if they didn't, there would be no Terrian player at all, making an even more racially imbalanced tournament.
If you want to gripe about the invites for Hyun and Jaedong and believe the organizer should have invited two Protoss players, that's fine... but to say it's not a coincidence is akin to saying that the organizer should be able to predict the results of the qualifier. And that's just not a logical argument.
pro starcraft fans are some of the most insane, paranoid people you will find on the internet
the ideas people come up with about match fixing and bracket fixing could get them regular guest spots on the alex jones show
Despite having to suffer through another year of boring and uninspiring seasons of WCS, I am actually stoked for the rest of 2014 and 2015. Foreigners are really closing the gap in terms of skill wise lately. Major, State, Snute and so many more able to go toe to toe with the Koreans!
On August 11 2014 07:05 yido wrote: Are we that desperate to claim a victory that this tournament is a premiere win for foreigners? This with G3 article seem to want to sensationalize everything instead of analyze and inform.
I guess it isn't a bad step, eSports needs to commercialize to become the large entity that we wished for. However, I do miss a less biased TL.
It's in the list of Premier Tournaments. A foreigner won it.
Don't know what else you want, my friend.
Maybe winning more than 2 series against Koreans. Or not have the brackets in a hilarious fashion. Or a more reasonable race distribution. Or have more players on the WCS ranking.
Having the best players is debatable. Though I would think having 4 top 16 WCS players (Taeja, Hyun, Bomber, Jaedong), a veteran Zerg (Leenock) and a recent gsl semifinalist (TRUE) is decent enough. So on that alone it's a premiere win.
Also, none of the Koreans played more than 1 of their own either and Sen was the only person to play all 3 matchups. I don't see how racial distribution has anything to do with this. Should we say, "Screw MMA's gsl win"? He won the most imbalanced season of gsl ever, only playing 1 non-TvT match (that he lost).
I'm not saying they had none of the top players, but for a "premiere" tournament it is definitely one of the weakest this year. (Maybe couple IEMs were close like Sao Paulo). Most like ALL the WCS and majority of DreamHacks below it away by a mile. Even Destiny I and Dragon Open #4 has a better player pool. Race distribution: So the one toss that was Has... ok. Bracket: lol, if you choose to see Hyun only playing Koreans on his way up as a sign of the bracket being fair I guess I can't argue with you. I guess GlobeTrotters games aren't fixed either. MMA GSL: he played against a much more competitive players in the most competitive sc2 tournament at the time. I don't see how a GSL could possibly compare to a Taiwan Open.
On August 11 2014 07:05 yido wrote: Are we that desperate to claim a victory that this tournament is a premiere win for foreigners? This with G3 article seem to want to sensationalize everything instead of analyze and inform.
I guess it isn't a bad step, eSports needs to commercialize to become the large entity that we wished for. However, I do miss a less biased TL.
It's in the list of Premier Tournaments. A foreigner won it.
Don't know what else you want, my friend.
Maybe winning more than 2 series against Koreans. Or not have the brackets in a hilarious fashion. Or a more reasonable race distribution. Or have more players on the WCS ranking.
not sure what bothers you so much about foreigner positivity. anyone can read the brackets and draw their own conclusions about the strength of the competition. "analyze and inform"? pro gaming is entertainment, man. let's be real, without hype and narratives no one would follow a bunch of teens and twentysomethings playing video games. if people want to be hype about moderately hard tournaments being taken by foreign players, what harm could possibly come to anyone from that?
i fail to see what anyone gains from this kind of backseat naysaying. it seems like negativity to no end or purpose other than shitting on others' enjoyment. feel free to rebut, though
Wow, you mad bro? I said that it is a good step towards making eSports mainstream genius maybe try reading the entire post before flaming. I watch to understand how the game works, keep up with the meta, and overall analyze and improve my game. If you are more focused on those aspects, the sensationalized articles gives a distorted reality which hinders real analysis. lol, I guess desiring consistency looks like undeserved hate to you.
I don't have a problem with Sen winning, I think it is great that he won a big tournament after being out of the public eye for a while. I do have a problem with calling this tournament a "premiere tournament win for the foreigners".
On August 11 2014 20:41 yido wrote: Wow, you mad bro?
no, but saying "you mad bro" in response to a calmly stated opinion ending with "feel free to rebut" says a lot about your intentions here
On August 11 2014 20:41 yido wrote:I said that it is a good step towards making eSports mainstream genius maybe try reading the entire post before flaming.
i'm not sure what that has to do with the fact that you came into a thread about sen winning a tournament for the apparent purpose of denigrating people's positivity and hype about his win. again, the fact that you're calling me names, accusing me of "flaming"(???) and questioning my reading comprehension doesn't do a lot to refute my impression that you're here to shit on people's good time
On August 11 2014 20:41 yido wrote:I watch to understand how the game works, keep up with the meta, and overall analyze and improve my game. If you are more focused on those aspects, the sensationalized articles gives a distorted reality which hinders real analysis.
what has been distorted about reality? the only thing called into question is the definition of a premier tournament, which is a valid line of debate which quite a few people have been openly discussing in this thread and other threads before. there's no conspiracy to hide the truth about anything here. distorting reality would be if the article said "sen smashed through korea's top terran, protoss and zerg players to claim one of the most prestigious trophies in the world" or something like that.
in my experience pretty much every tourney recap thread tries to build an emotional narrative about what happened, because if all you want to know is the builds and results you can go look at a bracket or live report thread or watch the vods. in this case the narrative was about a foreigner winning a premier tournament, because, guess what... a foreigner won a premier tournament
On August 11 2014 20:41 yido wrote:I don't have a problem with Sen winning, I think it is great that he won a big tournament after being out of the public eye for a while. I do have a problem with calling this tournament a "premiere tournament win for the foreigners".
yet your tone is negative and accusatory, you seemed to have come in here to pick fights with people for being happy and celebrating his win. if you disagree with people's opinions that's fine, if you want to post dissent that's fine. but there's no need for the hostile tone considering that it's just entertainment and people are just celebrating and being happy
^This thread isn't "stroke Sen's ego", it is informing TLers about a "premiere tournament that was won by a foreigner so, I'm pretty sure it isn't against the forum rules to have a different opinion. Its not like I'm mass posting on his fan page about how he is a bad player. (which I don't think he is or ever said he is)
I don't see how I am calling you names boss. Just trying to tell you that I think that sensationalizing is a good step towards commercialization, I'm sure by your response you didn't get that part from my first post. Why don't you try to argue from a logical point that FrostedMiniWheats is? I forgot TRUE was a GSL semi-finalist last season, and he made a good point about Sen facing Has as well.
If you want to read bunch of posts praising Sen, there is always his fanpage.
Exemplifies why Zergs have been being lazy about their own options. Terrans never us ravens in TvZ, and pro zergs have never abused burrow to bait scans to reduce mules until recently, and those bane burrows are just as effective as widow mines, if not more so, since you can control them more easily.
On August 11 2014 22:37 guitarizt wrote: I've been out of the scene for over a year now and checked tl on a whim this morning. This was awesome to see! I've gotta see these games.
You should watch the host swoon over Jaedong after his first match against Pet :D
On August 11 2014 11:16 lichter wrote: 4 invites, 4 qualified, 8 from TeSL. Taiwan is dominated by zergs, so it was 7 zerg 1 protoss from TeSL. Strangely, 4 zergs also advanced from the qualifiers. They also invited 2 other zergs in HyuN and Jaedong. It was a bizarre coincidence.
It's Not bizarre coincidence at all. Sen cannot defeat Korean Protoss in SC2, plain and simple. Parting owned Sen plenty of times. Naturally only Korean T and Z got the invites. Sad for Korean Protoss like sOs failed in the qualifier. Hence, do you see any Korean Protoss in the top 8?
I hope you mean currently. Because he's definitely beaten a number of korean protoss in sc2 before.
On August 11 2014 11:16 lichter wrote: 4 invites, 4 qualified, 8 from TeSL. Taiwan is dominated by zergs, so it was 7 zerg 1 protoss from TeSL. Strangely, 4 zergs also advanced from the qualifiers. They also invited 2 other zergs in HyuN and Jaedong. It was a bizarre coincidence.
It's Not bizarre coincidence at all. Sen cannot defeat Korean Protoss in SC2, plain and simple. Parting owned Sen plenty of times. Naturally only Korean T and Z got the invites. Sad for Korean Protoss like sOs failed in the qualifier. Hence, do you see any Korean Protoss in the top 8?
I hope you mean currently. Because he's definitely beaten a number of korean protoss in sc2 before.
On ladder, sure. If you follow TESL, how many times did San and Daisy kick Sen's rear? I've already mentioned Parting. The day after Sen won the trophy, Hurricane proceeded to beat Sen again, to prove my point.
Exemplifies why Zergs have been being lazy about their own options. Terrans never us ravens in TvZ, and pro zergs have never abused burrow to bait scans to reduce mules until recently, and those bane burrows are just as effective as widow mines, if not more so, since you can control them more easily.
burrow play is a stylistic option that comes at the very high risk of losing banelings for free which is why it's not every-game standard
acting as if it's some untapped resource that bumbling, incompetent zergs are just figuring out is just ignorant of the game
On August 11 2014 11:16 lichter wrote: 4 invites, 4 qualified, 8 from TeSL. Taiwan is dominated by zergs, so it was 7 zerg 1 protoss from TeSL. Strangely, 4 zergs also advanced from the qualifiers. They also invited 2 other zergs in HyuN and Jaedong. It was a bizarre coincidence.
It's Not bizarre coincidence at all. Sen cannot defeat Korean Protoss in SC2, plain and simple. Parting owned Sen plenty of times. Naturally only Korean T and Z got the invites. Sad for Korean Protoss like sOs failed in the qualifier. Hence, do you see any Korean Protoss in the top 8?
I hope you mean currently. Because he's definitely beaten a number of korean protoss in sc2 before.
On ladder, sure. If you follow TESL, how many times did San and Daisy kick Sen's rear? I've already mentioned Parting. The day after Sen won the trophy, Hurricane proceeded to beat Sen again, to prove my point.
A point that is not that much a currency at best. We had enough great champions that was won by certain match-ups, and we end up loving them. Sen is a great player and one of the greatest non-Korean Starcraft players of all time, doubting his win won't change much of that.
Exemplifies why Zergs have been being lazy about their own options. Terrans never us ravens in TvZ, and pro zergs have never abused burrow to bait scans to reduce mules until recently, and those bane burrows are just as effective as widow mines, if not more so, since you can control them more easily.
burrow play is a stylistic option that comes at the very high risk of losing banelings for free which is why it's not every-game standard
acting as if it's some untapped resource that bumbling, incompetent zergs are just figuring out is just ignorant of the game
U wot m8? There is no option vs burrow banelings for Terran that is free. Use scan? No Mule. Tech to Raven? 200 gas for a detector that'll probably die to mutas. The same things T wants to do to Z is the same thing Z should be doing against T; creating threats which cost them money and degrade their build efficiency.
Exemplifies why Zergs have been being lazy about their own options. Terrans never us ravens in TvZ, and pro zergs have never abused burrow to bait scans to reduce mules until recently, and those bane burrows are just as effective as widow mines, if not more so, since you can control them more easily.
burrow play is a stylistic option that comes at the very high risk of losing banelings for free which is why it's not every-game standard
acting as if it's some untapped resource that bumbling, incompetent zergs are just figuring out is just ignorant of the game
U wot m8? There is no option vs burrow banelings for Terran that is free. Use scan? No Mule. Tech to Raven? 200 gas for a detector that'll probably die to mutas. The same things T wants to do to Z is the same thing Z should be doing against T; creating threats which cost them money and degrade their build efficiency.
delaying mule mining is only a good trade if you're still able to win fights and not die. if terran doesn't step on the mines or cleans them all up quickly and then takes a good fight where you could have used 2, 4, 6, 8 extra banelings to hold, then you're just fighting at a lower army supply. same reason zvz pros dont always research burrow
On August 11 2014 11:16 lichter wrote: 4 invites, 4 qualified, 8 from TeSL. Taiwan is dominated by zergs, so it was 7 zerg 1 protoss from TeSL. Strangely, 4 zergs also advanced from the qualifiers. They also invited 2 other zergs in HyuN and Jaedong. It was a bizarre coincidence.
It's Not bizarre coincidence at all. Sen cannot defeat Korean Protoss in SC2, plain and simple. Parting owned Sen plenty of times. Naturally only Korean T and Z got the invites. Sad for Korean Protoss like sOs failed in the qualifier. Hence, do you see any Korean Protoss in the top 8?
I hope you mean currently. Because he's definitely beaten a number of korean protoss in sc2 before.
On ladder, sure. If you follow TESL, how many times did San and Daisy kick Sen's rear? I've already mentioned Parting. The day after Sen won the trophy, Hurricane proceeded to beat Sen again, to prove my point.
A point that is not that much a currency at best. We had enough great champions that was won by certain match-ups, and we end up loving them. Sen is a great player and one of the greatest non-Korean Starcraft players of all time, doubting his win won't change much of that.
I'm not doubting his win, I'm pointing out facts. Of course, I'm aware that Sen's the highest foreign underachiever in Starcraft ever since the Brood War era. As he got older, opportunities slipped away. He should've gotten that trophy from NASL when he ran into MC, but he didn't. As his career waned down, his weakness has gotten magnified.
On August 12 2014 19:20 Incognoto wrote: I think that with this, there's no more doubt in my mind that Sen is the best foreigner.
I love Sen to death, but I think that statement is too narrow... Not saying he got lucky, but I will tell you this right now: All zergs in Taiwan (which means 7/8 Taiwanese players at Taiwan Open) have to be prepared to play ZvZ in Taiwan eSports League. Slam and Ian can almost consistently take a best of 7 vs. Sen to the 7th and final game.
On August 12 2014 19:20 Incognoto wrote: I think that with this, there's no more doubt in my mind that Sen is the best foreigner.
I love Sen to death, but I think that statement is too narrow... Not saying he got lucky, but I will tell you this right now: All zergs in Taiwan (which means 7/8 Taiwanese players at Taiwan Open) have to be prepared to play ZvZ in Taiwan eSports League. Slam and Ian can almost consistently take a best of 7 vs. Sen to the 7th and final game.
So there are only zergs in Taiwan or something? ;p
A big problem we have is that the Taiwanese clearly have good players, people are quick to dismiss though since they have little exposure in the west. So we aren't aware of all these good Taiwanese players.
I would like to say that Sen is better than most occidental players, if not all of them.
Nice victory! while it might not be the a playerlist comprised of the best, and a great bracket draw (which determines victors all the time) its nice to see sen win a major tournament, especially on his home turf!
On August 12 2014 19:20 Incognoto wrote: I think that with this, there's no more doubt in my mind that Sen is the best foreigner.
I love Sen to death, but I think that statement is too narrow... Not saying he got lucky, but I will tell you this right now: All zergs in Taiwan (which means 7/8 Taiwanese players at Taiwan Open) have to be prepared to play ZvZ in Taiwan eSports League. Slam and Ian can almost consistently take a best of 7 vs. Sen to the 7th and final game.
So there are only zergs in Taiwan or something? ;p
On August 10 2014 16:06 lichter wrote: Sen you fucking baller
This, it's easy to figure something out and be great for a little while. It's ridiculously hard to remain a contender no matter the changes to the game, meta, maps, etc. Sen has done this and you pretty much never see the guy complaining he just quietly goes about his business and gets it done.