On October 22 2014 10:12 Bagration wrote: MMA is one of the legends, one of the greatest players of Starcraft 2. In WoL, he was 2nd best Terran after Mvp. A timeless champion
Surely Boxer/Foxer/MarineKing/MKP was the best terran after Mvp? MMA was for a short time the best in the world, but MKP was the second best for ages and the best for far longer than MMA was.
MMA was and is awesome. An awesome dude, an awesome player and one of the best handful of Terrans in Starcraft 2 (along with fellow gods Mvp, MKP, Maru and Innovation), but his peak was not as bright as MKP's (MKP had one rival for best in the world for several months, that being Parting) and certainly didn't burn for near as long.
MMA might now have been called the very best int he world for a very considerable period but MMA has always been undoubtedly much more solid than MKP ever was. Being a 2 time GSL champion was always bigger claim to being the no. 2 terran after Mvp. The fact that he has beaten Mvp several times and they had an awesome rivalry is like the final nail in the coffin for MKP.
MKP will forever be in my heart for having the best micro in wings. However, MMA has maintained an exceptionally high level of play for years. That's the hardest thing to do. Look how many pros have come and gone. How many gsl finalists aren't even playing the game anymore... And now MMA is on the biggest stage in the world, again.
On October 22 2014 10:12 Bagration wrote: MMA is one of the legends, one of the greatest players of Starcraft 2. In WoL, he was 2nd best Terran after Mvp. A timeless champion
Surely Boxer/Foxer/MarineKing/MKP was the best terran after Mvp? MMA was for a short time the best in the world, but MKP was the second best for ages and the best for far longer than MMA was.
MMA was and is awesome. An awesome dude, an awesome player and one of the best handful of Terrans in Starcraft 2 (along with fellow gods Mvp, MKP, Maru and Innovation), but his peak was not as bright as MKP's (MKP had one rival for best in the world for several months, that being Parting) and certainly didn't burn for near as long.
Well, both MMA and MKP made 3 GSL finals / GSL equivalents: However, the difference is that MMA won 2 of 3, while MKP lost all 3.
MMA had 5 premier titles in WoL - MKP had only 2
Even during MKP's peak in early 2012 (when he won 2 MLGs) - MMA still placed higher than MKP in two premier tournaments that they both played in (IPL 4 and Iron Squid)
On October 22 2014 19:50 Starecat wrote: Didn't know that Boxer was a asshole.
I think it's less of him being an asshole and more him trying to defend his (now) wife, no matter how ridiculous she and her policies are. She really must've distorted his viewpoints. I think if he had a more solid manager and Jessica would've stayed away from it, everything would've been fine. This is mostly coming from the idea that Boxer is a well-respected player and coach and wouldn't deliberately sabotage his own team without the influence of an outside force.
On October 22 2014 10:12 Bagration wrote: MMA is one of the legends, one of the greatest players of Starcraft 2. In WoL, he was 2nd best Terran after Mvp. A timeless champion
Surely Boxer/Foxer/MarineKing/MKP was the best terran after Mvp? MMA was for a short time the best in the world, but MKP was the second best for ages and the best for far longer than MMA was.
MMA was and is awesome. An awesome dude, an awesome player and one of the best handful of Terrans in Starcraft 2 (along with fellow gods Mvp, MKP, Maru and Innovation), but his peak was not as bright as MKP's (MKP had one rival for best in the world for several months, that being Parting) and certainly didn't burn for near as long.
MMA might now have been called the very best int he world for a very considerable period but MMA has always been undoubtedly much more solid than MKP ever was. Being a 2 time GSL champion was always bigger claim to being the no. 2 terran after Mvp. The fact that he has beaten Mvp several times and they had an awesome rivalry is like the final nail in the coffin for MKP.
If only MKP somehow fit into that triangle of Polt > MMA > Mvp > Polt, the story would be so much more awesome
On October 22 2014 10:12 Bagration wrote: MMA is one of the legends, one of the greatest players of Starcraft 2. In WoL, he was 2nd best Terran after Mvp. A timeless champion
Surely Boxer/Foxer/MarineKing/MKP was the best terran after Mvp? MMA was for a short time the best in the world, but MKP was the second best for ages and the best for far longer than MMA was.
MMA was and is awesome. An awesome dude, an awesome player and one of the best handful of Terrans in Starcraft 2 (along with fellow gods Mvp, MKP, Maru and Innovation), but his peak was not as bright as MKP's (MKP had one rival for best in the world for several months, that being Parting) and certainly didn't burn for near as long.
MMA might now have been called the very best int he world for a very considerable period but MMA has always been undoubtedly much more solid than MKP ever was. Being a 2 time GSL champion was always bigger claim to being the no. 2 terran after Mvp. The fact that he has beaten Mvp several times and they had an awesome rivalry is like the final nail in the coffin for MKP.
If only MKP somehow fit into that triangle of Polt > MMA > Mvp > Polt, the story would be so much more awesome
On October 22 2014 10:12 Bagration wrote: MMA is one of the legends, one of the greatest players of Starcraft 2. In WoL, he was 2nd best Terran after Mvp. A timeless champion
Surely Boxer/Foxer/MarineKing/MKP was the best terran after Mvp? MMA was for a short time the best in the world, but MKP was the second best for ages and the best for far longer than MMA was.
MMA was and is awesome. An awesome dude, an awesome player and one of the best handful of Terrans in Starcraft 2 (along with fellow gods Mvp, MKP, Maru and Innovation), but his peak was not as bright as MKP's (MKP had one rival for best in the world for several months, that being Parting) and certainly didn't burn for near as long.
MMA might now have been called the very best int he world for a very considerable period but MMA has always been undoubtedly much more solid than MKP ever was. Being a 2 time GSL champion was always bigger claim to being the no. 2 terran after Mvp. The fact that he has beaten Mvp several times and they had an awesome rivalry is like the final nail in the coffin for MKP.
If only MKP somehow fit into that triangle of Polt > MMA > Mvp > Polt, the story would be so much more awesome
On October 22 2014 12:43 negativedge wrote: people forget that MMA was always the fan favorite in his matches against MVP, not the other way around.
noo, definitely not true. People were mad when he 3-0ed Mvp in the Blizzard Cup. Check out the thread.
Even Artosis sounded completely biased and disappointed haha.
He was a fan favorite against Mvp during the summer (GSTL, MLG, GSL October), because while Mvp was ridiculously dominant, Mvp was seen as a "boring champion" (crazy, right?) and MMA was the exciting underdog.
By late 2011, people really started to respect Mvp's dominance, plus in the Blizz Cup series only G1 was a longer game - games 2 and 3 were short timing attacks by MMA, and people were upset that such a potentially great Bo5 ended so quickly
This is true. MMA was the budding underdog darling to save us from boredom (his games against DRG were always fantastic when they were both up-and-coming, capped off with the Blizz Cup game 7 that year).
I don't think MVP got a ton of nostalgia support until the season he beat Squirtle with pure audacity. Artosis always liked MVP though, since he a) was a macro player b) went mech a lot.
On October 22 2014 19:50 Starecat wrote: Didn't know that Boxer was a asshole.
I think it's less of him being an asshole and more him trying to defend his (now) wife, no matter how ridiculous she and her policies are. She really must've distorted his viewpoints. I think if he had a more solid manager and Jessica would've stayed away from it, everything would've been fine. This is mostly coming from the idea that Boxer is a well-respected player and coach and wouldn't deliberately sabotage his own team without the influence of an outside force.
I dunno, Boxer had a pretty rocky return to SKT-1 as well.
In any case, I don't think we'll ever know exactly what happened with Slayers. What exactly was the 'career-ending' dirt that they never revealed about Alicia for example?
From what we did learn though MMA definitely wasn't innocent with the Slayers drama, nor was he completely to blame. For example, shafting his personal coach was a pretty dick move if true.
In any case, what a lot of people are forgetting was there was an actual conman pretending to represent Intel involved and actually stealing money from the team (IPL admins even caught him trying to siphon off prize money at IPL 3).
Then there's also the entire freeze-out situation with the asshole Startale coach which didn't help either (not the first or last shady incident with the ST coach btw).
So a lot of things came together to destroy Slayers, but if you prefer to say external pressure turned them against each other. Maybe that's the best way to put it than trying to paint one side as villain and another as victim.
I cannot believe how much work you guys do with these articles, they're really great!Thank you soO so much! If MMA wins this Blizzcon i will cry tears of joy. Gunna be MMA vs SoO in the finals i feel.
Holy shit I never heard about what boxer did to MMA, what bastard. MMA was one of the best players and one of my favorites back in the day, but I feel like he has never quite found his style again. He used to be insane with his multitasking, dropping 6 bases at the same time against Zerg and somehow microing them all. I've never been as impressed anymore when i watch him play. He's still a good solid terran player but he doesn't really have anything special anymore. The magic is missing.
MMA's stopped being a championship contender the day coach Ryu left Slayers, the conflicts with Boxer certainly didn't help though and may have started the decline. But like I posted above, its near impossible to tell exactly how things went down between all the different sides.
Edit: I did wonder if we'd see MMA return to form on Acer, but it took so long that it convinced me that Coach Ryu really knew how to get the most out of MMA. But MMa's starting to round into form again, so we'll see if he's rediscovered the touch!
On October 26 2014 13:40 Wuster wrote: MMA's stopped being a championship contender the day coach Ryu left Slayers, the conflicts with Boxer certainly didn't help though and may have started the decline. But like I posted above, its near impossible to tell exactly how things went down between all the different sides.
Edit: I did wonder if we'd see MMA return to form on Acer, but it took so long that it convinced me that Coach Ryu really knew how to get the most out of MMA. But MMa's starting to round into form again, so we'll see if he's rediscovered the touch!
Having a coach helped, but so did having some of the world's best practice partners at Slayers - when the internal conflict started, I'm sure MMA's practice with the players was reduced, if not cut off.
MMA hasn't returned to the top-tier level that he was back in 2011 or early 2012, but he's become a champion again under Acer. That alone shows that he's got grit, and isn't dependent on a coach to win.