StarCraft, a video game, is often compared to chess: it is strategic and extremely difficult, requiring a mathematical cast of mind, and, unlike many other video games, with their scrolling or first-person vantages, it affords a bird’s-eye perspective of the board, or map. But the analogy breaks down in countless ways. The map changes from game to game. (In this instance, it was called Habitation Station, and shaped somewhat like a butterfly.) Instead of black or white, players choose from among three “races,” called Zerg, Terran, and Protoss, with different strengths and vulnerabilities. In the early stages, players cannot see one another’s armies, and must dispatch scouts to illuminate darkened corners; they must also develop economies, with which to fund the inevitable battles. It’s as if Garry Kasparov had to plot a pawnless endgame while simultaneously harvesting minerals, building fuel extractors, and searching in vain for Spassky’s queen. Academic researchers now use StarCraft II—the “drosophila” of brain science, as one paper suggested—when studying people who expertly perform cognitively complex tasks. Chess may soon be eclipsed as the standard-bearer of competitive I.Q.
Kingston, a city of a hundred and twenty thousand, is where Sasha Hostyn, a.k.a. Scarlett, grew up. Her father, Rob Harrap, is a geology professor at Queen’s University; her mother, Joyce Hostyn, a committed Xeriscapist, has worked in public radio, politics, and software design. Sasha is now twenty. She and her older brother, Sean, who is twenty-two and studying math and computer science, refer to their parents as Rob and Joyce. It’s a progressive family in a number of ways. Sasha uses her mother’s last name; Sean uses his father’s. Rob and Joyce practiced what they call “unbundled parenting,” with respect to their children’s education, beginning at the age of twelve. “You treat kids like infants all their lives, and then one day, when they turn eighteen, you expect them to leave the house and act like adults?” Rob said. “That doesn’t make any sense.” He said that he’d never seen Sasha’s high-school transcript and, therefore, could only guess about her best subjects. Joyce told me that last year, when Sasha was nineteen and already the most highly regarded StarCraft II player in North America, she mentioned, in passing, that one of her teachers in junior high had recommended that she get involved in extracurricular math competitions. It was the first Joyce had heard of it.
Before Scarlett, the most prominent foreigner was a left-handed Swede named Johan (Naniwa) Lucchesi, a brilliant but hotheaded player, who had a reputation for lashing out at fans and tournament organizers, and for showing emotion onstage, before and after matches. Some fans coined the term “Naniwalk” to describe his slightly goofy swagger. Korean players, Day9 told me, used to “view it as a badge of honor to eliminate Naniwa, because he was so disrespectful.”
The article is rather long and includes quotes from the likes of Scarlett, Day[9], Smix, and others.
Damn, this is a huge article. I haven`t read the entire thing yet, but I think it is very well-written. There`s so much information here about Scarlett, but also the SC2 scene as a whole.
I haven`t seen anything that would paint the community in a negative light that isn`t true. Things such as the toxicity of Twitch chat are mentioned, but let`s be honest here... twitch chat is pretty gruesome.
On November 17 2014 16:58 lichter wrote: It's a good article but it meanders quite a bit. But since it's a mainstream article, all the exposition is necessary. Thumbs up.
Excellent article. Humanises the players brilliantly, frames SC2 and gives just enough explanation to show how e-sports work to the layperson. Got a newfound (even more) respect for Scarlett now, too. Shame she doesn't like her nickname. It's true that it's rather obvious and slightly tokenistic, but it fits well. Wonder if we can think of a new one? Hmm...
It's a good article, very well written, I skipped over the parts explaining the games obviously because I didn't need them but what I did read of it was great. It's kind of amazing how much young Scarlett reminds me of a young me, but she's a lot smarter and more determined and far more successful for it. A good chunk of this really hit home for me, somewhat similar struggles I'd say but she's done a lot better in dealing with them. Damn it if it isn't just a little bit of a reality check for me.
On November 17 2014 17:02 Quincel wrote: Shame she doesn't like her nickname. It's true that it's rather obvious and slightly tokenistic, but it fits well. Wonder if we can think of a new one? Hmm...
On November 17 2014 17:02 Quincel wrote: Shame she doesn't like her nickname. It's true that it's rather obvious and slightly tokenistic, but it fits well. Wonder if we can think of a new one? Hmm...
Good article, seems like great exposure for the scene. Non-judgemental.
Oh, well I don't even like Sarah Kerrigan as a character and Queen of Blades is a pretty lame and obvious name to choose JUST because she's female and zerg, so I'm not surprised Scarlett doesn't like it.
This was the best article I`ve ever read from an outsider`s perspective.
My favorite parts: "the unwritten etiquette of cheesing is complicated. Do it too often, and not only will its efficacy diminish but you’ll be seen as annoying—disrespectful, even, if your over-all skill is of a lower calibre. It’s like the Picasso rule of painting: you have to know the basics before you can abandon them."
" “And if I cared I could’ve probably just killed it with my workers, but I didn’t.” She wasn’t interested in winning quickly. Her troubles against Terran had been occurring in the middle to late ranges of games."
Could've done without:
"Bakhtanians replied, “You can’t, because they’re one and the same thing. This is a community that’s, you know, fifteen or twenty years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting-game community it’s not the fighting-game community—it’s StarCraft.” "
I resent this gamergate fallacy being perpetuated.
Hordes of angry young men turned their pitchforks on women (and feminist supporters) throughout the gaming industry
Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
For the record I have nothing against her. This isn't her fault ( although her support would be appreciated and valuable ). I just do not agree with the meme of gamers as angry frustrated men, and I think Scarletts acceptance in the community nicely illustrates this. It's a shame the article doesn't highlight this and instead focuses on perpetuating a bigoted myth.
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Hordes of angry young men turned their pitchforks on women (and feminist supporters) throughout the gaming industry
Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
Well, no other (prominent) player is comparable to Scarlett in that regard. So that's not an especially useful comparison.
I agree with you that the climate around the issue is pretty mild nowadays, but for the longest time any reddit/teamliquid thread or twitch chat remotely connected to Scarlett was full of bigotry and hurtful remarks. With that in mind, "the community practically bent over backwards to welcome Scarlett" doesn't really ring true with me.
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
On November 17 2014 16:58 lichter wrote: It's a good article but it meanders quite a bit. But since it's a mainstream article, all the exposition is necessary. Thumbs up.
meander is quite a weak word for what i just read but yea thats great otherwise..
Great article ! Also that Chinese chess story is pretty awesome. However
she visits the forums at teamliquid.net, a kind of StarCraft clearing house, sometimes even onstage between games, to see how people are reacting to the show she’s putting on. “I think I’m the only player that does that,” she added.
I'm pretty sure other players do that? Bunny, Hendralisk?
There's also a mistake in the article here :
Then, not long afterward, he quit the sport. He was at a tournament in Poland, and playing against the Korean DongRaeGu, when he grew annoyed that the crowd’s reactions seemed to be aiding his opponent. Blaming the soundproofing, he walked offstage, to thousands of boos. He never returned.
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
Then, not long afterward, he quit the sport. He was at a tournament in Poland, and playing against the Korean DongRaeGu, when he grew annoyed that the crowd’s reactions seemed to be aiding his opponent. Blaming the soundproofing, he walked offstage, to thousands of boos. He never returned.
It was against Polt, wasn't it?
There are several minor factual errors in the article, but nothing too big
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
she visits the forums at teamliquid.net, a kind of StarCraft clearing house, sometimes even onstage between games, to see how people are reacting to the show she’s putting on. “I think I’m the only player that does that,” she added.
I'm pretty sure other players do that? Bunny, Hendralisk?
hendralisk also often posts in WCS AM threads. Pretty sure most pros browse. Casters are also always reading threads; Khaldor and Wolf often gave shoutouts during Code A.
On November 17 2014 19:27 lichter wrote: hendralisk also often posts in WCS AM threads. Pretty sure most pros browse. Casters are also always reading threads; Khaldor and Wolf often gave shoutouts during Code A.
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one mention really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what? I recall hearing of a New Yorker journalist trailing Scarlett literally months back, before GamerGate was even a thing. Articles like this are in the pipeline for ages. This isn't about GamerGate, it's about a person and a scene that are interesting to profile.
---
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
If you're seeing GamerGate as a "major aspect" of the article, then I'd suggest you to read it again. Or else you probably see GG everywhere.
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement.
We have a search function. With a quick glance, I approximate about 80 posts mentioning Scarlett that were banned. This does not take into account posts that refer to her without mentioning her name. I also did not count warned posts.
If you want actual evidence, you can use the search function.
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
What do you mean, "representative of us"? I'm talking about /r/starcraft posts, TeamLiquid threads and twitch chats. If that's not the starcraft community, what is?
As for the article at hand, I found the bit about the wrist issues interesting. 6 months rest for a full recovery sounds pretty serious. I wonder if these progamer wrist issues could be prevented if people were aware of them earlier on? It seems like right now most only become aware of them when it's too late.
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
It's clearly written in the article that GamerGate has its origins in a "subculture within a subculture", which leads to the fact that they are not representative of the whole gaming community. I don't know what you're talking about.
A major publication discussing esports at length and in detail with a focus on our own game and one of our most prominent and popular players, that specifically name-checks our own forum. Are we REALLY going to derail this into THAT topic again?
Let's talk about the article. I hear that's a cool thing to do in a thread about the article.
On November 17 2014 19:27 lichter wrote: hendralisk also often posts in WCS AM threads. Pretty sure most pros browse. Casters are also always reading threads; Khaldor and Wolf often gave shoutouts during Code A.
But other than Henry once or twice, I don't think anyone checks/posts on TL in the middle of their tournament runs, or in Scarlett's case in particular, in the middle of sets. Naturally, in an entertainment industry (which every sport is), professionals are constantly examining how the audience perceives them. That's why every professional athlete who gives a damn about a Western audience has a Twitter, typically a Facebook page, often with an accompanying Instagram account, and on some occasions, even a YouTube channel. But players who'll use those social media tools in the middle of a game are much less common.
On November 17 2014 20:12 Circumstance wrote: But other than Henry once or twice, I don't think anyone checks/posts on TL in the middle of their tournament runs, or in Scarlett's case in particular, in the middle of sets.
Or be considered legit enough as a live report poster to participate in the Live Report StarLeague
On November 17 2014 20:12 Circumstance wrote: A major publication discussing esports at length and in detail with a focus on our own game and one of our most prominent and popular players, that specifically name-checks our own forum. Are we REALLY going to derail this into THAT topic again?
Let's talk about the article. I hear that's a cool thing to do in a thread about the article.
On November 17 2014 19:27 lichter wrote: hendralisk also often posts in WCS AM threads. Pretty sure most pros browse. Casters are also always reading threads; Khaldor and Wolf often gave shoutouts during Code A.
But other than Henry once or twice, I don't think anyone checks/posts on TL in the middle of their tournament runs, or in Scarlett's case in particular, in the middle of sets. Naturally, in an entertainment industry (which every sport is), professionals are constantly examining how the audience perceives them. That's why every professional athlete who gives a damn about a Western audience has a Twitter, typically a Facebook page, often with an accompanying Instagram account, and on some occasions, even a YouTube channel. But players who'll use those social media tools in the middle of a game are much less common.
In the middle of sets is definitely a pretty unique thing. In the middle of tournaments runs is much more common I think.
One thing I actually found interesting in the article, and a sort of point that I go back and forth on, was this:
Yet she rarely plays StarCraft more than three or four hours in a day, both because she suffers from painful tendinitis in her right wrist and because she finds the Korean tradition of relentless practice unnecessary, and even counterproductive: rote but without mindfulness. She learns almost as much from watching others’ games as from playing her own.
Now, I don't know what exactly her practice setup was like when she was in the Axiom house, but I do wonder how the different professional training regimens compare in this matter - Axiom house vs. a KeSPA house vs. living and practicing on your own vs. something like the Alternate house, or even the GEM house. And since the Korean practice routine has been proven time and time again as the most effective way to build champions, where does the difference lie?
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: I resent this gamergate fallacy being perpetuated.
Hordes of angry young men turned their pitchforks on women (and feminist supporters) throughout the gaming industry
Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
Well, no other (prominent) player is comparable to Scarlett in that regard. So that's not an especially useful comparison.
I agree with you that the climate around the issue is pretty mild nowadays, but for the longest time any reddit/teamliquid thread or twitch chat remotely connected to Scarlett was full of bigotry and hurtful remarks. With that in mind, "the community practically bent over backwards to welcome Scarlett" doesn't really ring true with me.
Yeah, one should have a look at the original threads involving Scarlett. There were a lot of one-off comments by people that felt the need to express their hate before being banned. Any Reddit thread involving Scarlett used to have tons of heavily downvoted comments you had better ignore, there was also a plague of "funny" novelty usernames on reddit and whenever you would suggest to the mods that they ban those people they would feign powerlessness since those people could simply make new accounts.
I think the reason that the community feels that Scarlett feels welcomed nowadays is mostly because she truly did receive a lot more support than hate, so all the malicious transphobic trolls eventually found another cause, a different person to hate on (& they were banned from TL en masse). I guess we can be happy for Scarlett, if not for humanity.
On November 17 2014 20:24 Circumstance wrote: One thing I actually found interesting in the article, and a sort of point that I go back and forth on, was this:
Yet she rarely plays StarCraft more than three or four hours in a day, both because she suffers from painful tendinitis in her right wrist and because she finds the Korean tradition of relentless practice unnecessary, and even counterproductive: rote but without mindfulness. She learns almost as much from watching others’ games as from playing her own.
Now, I don't know what exactly her practice setup was like when she was in the Axiom house, but I do wonder how the different professional training regimens compare in this matter - Axiom house vs. a KeSPA house vs. living and practicing on your own vs. something like the Alternate house, or even the GEM house. And since the Korean practice routine has been proven time and time again as the most effective way to build champions, where does the difference lie?
How good is Scarlett compared to the top Koreans? (not very) She's just very talented so that's why she does well, but I refuse to believe that practicing 3 hours a day is better than practicing 9 hours a day. It's her choice, obviously, and she'll have her reasons, but the rest of the world can take her justification of it with a grain of salt.
she visits the forums at teamliquid.net, a kind of StarCraft clearing house, sometimes even onstage between games, to see how people are reacting to the show she’s putting on. “I think I’m the only player that does that,” she added.
I'm pretty sure other players do that? Bunny, Hendralisk?
Honestly I think a lot of players do. When I was at Gfinity we could see the player's screens really big even between games. Snute, Bunny, TLO, etc were all on TL. MC and MMA went on PlayXP between games too.
On November 17 2014 20:07 Stijn wrote: As for the article at hand, I found the bit about the wrist issues interesting. 6 months rest for a full recovery sounds pretty serious. I wonder if these progamer wrist issues could be prevented if people were aware of them earlier on? It seems like right now most only become aware of them when it's too late.
Pretty sure the best way to prevent such issues is to simply play less, which isn't exactly an ideal option for a pro player.
she visits the forums at teamliquid.net, a kind of StarCraft clearing house, sometimes even onstage between games, to see how people are reacting to the show she’s putting on. “I think I’m the only player that does that,” she added.
I'm pretty sure other players do that? Bunny, Hendralisk?
Then, not long afterward, he quit the sport. He was at a tournament in Poland, and playing against the Korean DongRaeGu, when he grew annoyed that the crowd’s reactions seemed to be aiding his opponent. Blaming the soundproofing, he walked offstage, to thousands of boos. He never returned.
It was against Polt, wasn't it?
Snute and bunny do it sometimes. Bunny seems to pop up whenever korean bunny is playing as well.
On November 17 2014 20:07 Stijn wrote: As for the article at hand, I found the bit about the wrist issues interesting. 6 months rest for a full recovery sounds pretty serious. I wonder if these progamer wrist issues could be prevented if people were aware of them earlier on? It seems like right now most only become aware of them when it's too late.
Pretty sure the best way to prevent such issues is to simply play less, which isn't exactly an ideal option for a pro player.
Thankfully SC2 is a little more forgiving then it's parent (even if it's by just a little). There's really no getting around how mechanically demanding SC2 is especially at the highest level.
On November 17 2014 20:24 Circumstance wrote: One thing I actually found interesting in the article, and a sort of point that I go back and forth on, was this:
Yet she rarely plays StarCraft more than three or four hours in a day, both because she suffers from painful tendinitis in her right wrist and because she finds the Korean tradition of relentless practice unnecessary, and even counterproductive: rote but without mindfulness. She learns almost as much from watching others’ games as from playing her own.
Now, I don't know what exactly her practice setup was like when she was in the Axiom house, but I do wonder how the different professional training regimens compare in this matter - Axiom house vs. a KeSPA house vs. living and practicing on your own vs. something like the Alternate house, or even the GEM house. And since the Korean practice routine has been proven time and time again as the most effective way to build champions, where does the difference lie?
I would say if you are close to people that train 12 hours a day, when you only train 4 hours a day. Then the 12 hour people are pretty inefficient. But the inefficiency is overcome by just dragging it out to 12 hours. So I wouldn't call it effective, but the safest way of improving dedicated people. But this mechanical oriented training was better suited for BW then Sc2, it still works though. Either way, playing 4 hours doesn't mean you only train 4 hours, especially since they mention that she learns as much from watching others afterwards.
Oh awesome, this is finally out! Had the opportunity to chat with Ben at RedBull DC in the press area. He was extremely well spoken and was always asking questions. Took tons of notes and you could practically see him drawing lines between everything, noticing small hints of a potential secondary storyline to take. He and Wisecrax talked a fair amount about the current TvT meta and he definitely knew his stuff.
Really a beautiful piece of writing. Tons of exposition, did a great job of getting some fantastic stories out of friends and family, and really just did an amazing job of crafting a portrait with all of the anecdotes. Definitely a new high point for journalism in esports and definitely a piece that I'm going to come back to and read for inspiration and insight many times.
Also, just want to leave what he told me about the piece at DC: "Yeah, it should be coming soonish. It's a bit of a detailed piece, so I want to make sure I do it justice." Holy hell did he do it justice. :D
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
On November 17 2014 23:06 peanuts wrote: Oh awesome, this is finally out! Had the opportunity to chat with Ben at RedBull DC in the press area. He was extremely well spoken and was always asking questions. Took tons of notes and you could practically see him drawing lines between everything, noticing small hints of a potential secondary storyline to take. He and Wisecrax talked a fair amount about the current TvT meta and he definitely knew his stuff.
Really a beautiful piece of writing. Tons of exposition, did a great job of getting some fantastic stories out of friends and family, and really just did an amazing job of crafting a portrait with all of the anecdotes. Definitely a new high point for journalism in esports and definitely a piece that I'm going to come back to and read for inspiration and insight many times.
Also, just want to leave what he told me about the piece at DC: "Yeah, it should be coming soonish. It's a bit of a detailed piece, so I want to make sure I do it justice." Holy hell did he do it justice. :D
I have a few concerns with the article, but as a whole it is pretty awesome yeah. Nice to hear that !
Haven't read the article, nor any of the comments in this thread, but since it's The New Yorker and it's SC2, I'll take a look for sure. Good for Scarlett.
On November 17 2014 19:27 lichter wrote: hendralisk also often posts in WCS AM threads. Pretty sure most pros browse. Casters are also always reading threads; Khaldor and Wolf often gave shoutouts during Code A.
iNcontroL also posts quite a lot, as well as TB.
ZombieGrub does as well. I've seen the Shoutcraft crew read some LR threads while casting sometimes.
On November 17 2014 19:27 lichter wrote: hendralisk also often posts in WCS AM threads. Pretty sure most pros browse. Casters are also always reading threads; Khaldor and Wolf often gave shoutouts during Code A.
iNcontroL also posts quite a lot, as well as TB.
ZombieGrub does as well. I've seen the Shoutcraft crew read some LR threads while casting sometimes.
Want facts and numbers? Aligulac & Liquipedia. Want fun and stories and random shit? LR Threaaaaaaaad !
On November 17 2014 19:27 lichter wrote: hendralisk also often posts in WCS AM threads. Pretty sure most pros browse. Casters are also always reading threads; Khaldor and Wolf often gave shoutouts during Code A.
iNcontroL also posts quite a lot, as well as TB.
ZombieGrub does as well. I've seen the Shoutcraft crew read some LR threads while casting sometimes.
Want facts and numbers? Aligulac & Liquipedia. Want fun and stories and random shit? LR Threaaaaaaaad !
ZG had a mini One Piece discussion happen on one of their streams. It was amazing.
Hordes of angry young men turned their pitchforks on women (and feminist supporters) throughout the gaming industry
Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
For the record I have nothing against her. This isn't her fault ( although her support would be appreciated and valuable ). I just do not agree with the meme of gamers as angry frustrated men, and I think Scarletts acceptance in the community nicely illustrates this. It's a shame the article doesn't highlight this and instead focuses on perpetuating a bigoted myth.
Absolutely not true. Scarlett was not welcomed into the community. After her breakout performance, there were a lot of bigots posting hateful things whenever her name came up. I won't say these people were the majority, but they filled every thread where her name was mentioned.
It wasn't till she proved her skill through one incredible performance after another that she gained popularity. She was never popular before that and don't kid yourself that she would be so popular if she hadn't affected the foreign scene the way she did.
Eventually the haters got bored and the fans came out from every hidden corner. People are sheep. When the flavor of the day is hate, they jump on the hate train. When it's love, they jump on that one.
he sent me a precautionary video link. It shows Day9 interrupting an interview with Scarlett to provide some lighthearted coaching. “Make her give long answers,” he says. “I’m always, like, ‘Scarlett, this is an important match, how do you feel?’ ‘I feel fine.’ ‘Do you have anything to say? This person just called you a piece of shit.’ ‘Oh, well, good luck.’ ” Occasionally, the camera pans over to Scarlett, who is seated and seems amused by his frustration. At one point, Day9 says, “Don’t you want to do this for a living, Scarlett?”
The article mentions this interview. Does anyone know which interview this is?
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
“Grill,” btw, is code-speak for girl—a reference, presumably, to Scarlett. (I’ve omitted a more derogatory remark.) The MC referred to is another StarCraft pro who was playing in the same tournament. Several of these items were accompanied by images of faces, each of which has a different meaning to devotees. The most common such face, known as kappa, belongs to a former employee of the site that became Twitch. It’s a smug mug, goes the idea, and you post it to indicate sarcasm or trolling. One kappa begets another, and pretty soon we’re in meta-trolling territory, where the discussion seems to be acknowledging its own stupidity. “It may not seem like it, but there are a lot of mature viewers watching this right now, they just don’t have anything retarded to say about scarlett,” someone else wrote.
This is not the digital equivalent of sports-talk radio. These guys are hardly talking about the game; they’re expressing sentiments about what it’s like to be one of the people who knew how to talk about the game before everyone else showed up. “It’s a subculture within a subculture,” the games journalist Rob Zacny told me, and he advised me to look away, likening the “creepy hive mind” at work to the GamerGate phenomenon, in the sense that it seemed to be driven by conflicted feelings about accommodating outsiders. What most subcultures want, after all, is to expand their influence while retaining their identity. You can’t have both.
Oh boy.
I'm glad that e-sports is getting more recognition and that the article gets away with (mostly) avoiding talking about her being transgender. As in, it's not the focus of the article at all.
he sent me a precautionary video link. It shows Day9 interrupting an interview with Scarlett to provide some lighthearted coaching. “Make her give long answers,” he says. “I’m always, like, ‘Scarlett, this is an important match, how do you feel?’ ‘I feel fine.’ ‘Do you have anything to say? This person just called you a piece of shit.’ ‘Oh, well, good luck.’ ” Occasionally, the camera pans over to Scarlett, who is seated and seems amused by his frustration. At one point, Day9 says, “Don’t you want to do this for a living, Scarlett?”
The article mentions this interview. Does anyone know which interview this is?
Btw it looks like her wrist issues is pretty serious I am not sure if 3-4hours practice is enough to improve. That sucks
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
The article made it pretty clear that the SC2 community supports Scarlett, despite idiots being present. Heck, there's a quote that basically goes "Gaming community minus harassment equals Starcraft community", which is one hell of a compliment. So I'm not sure what your issue is to begin with.
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: I resent this gamergate fallacy being perpetuated.
Hordes of angry young men turned their pitchforks on women (and feminist supporters) throughout the gaming industry
Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
For the record I have nothing against her. This isn't her fault ( although her support would be appreciated and valuable ). I just do not agree with the meme of gamers as angry frustrated men, and I think Scarletts acceptance in the community nicely illustrates this. It's a shame the article doesn't highlight this and instead focuses on perpetuating a bigoted myth.
Absolutely not true. Scarlett was not welcomed into the community. After her breakout performance, there were a lot of bigots posting hateful things whenever her name came up. I won't say these people were the majority, but they filled every thread where her name was mentioned.
So a vocal minority spoke up against her. Most didn't care.
It wasn't till she proved her skill through one incredible performance after another that she gained popularity. She was never popular before that and don't kid yourself that she would be so popular if she hadn't affected the foreign scene the way she did.
Not sure what point you're trying to make here. You think she deserves to be popular regardless of her skill, presumably because of her gender alone? She has earned her place, just like any other good player, proving that the community will judge people on skill alone, not gender or sexual orientation. If anything her gender has been a boon for her.
Eventually the haters got bored and the fans came out from every hidden corner. People are sheep. When the flavor of the day is hate, they jump on the hate train. When it's love, they jump on that one.
he sent me a precautionary video link. It shows Day9 interrupting an interview with Scarlett to provide some lighthearted coaching. “Make her give long answers,” he says. “I’m always, like, ‘Scarlett, this is an important match, how do you feel?’ ‘I feel fine.’ ‘Do you have anything to say? This person just called you a piece of shit.’ ‘Oh, well, good luck.’ ” Occasionally, the camera pans over to Scarlett, who is seated and seems amused by his frustration. At one point, Day9 says, “Don’t you want to do this for a living, Scarlett?”
The article mentions this interview. Does anyone know which interview this is?
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
[quote]
By the way,
[quote]
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
The article made it pretty clear that the SC2 community supports Scarlett, despite idiots being present. Heck, there's a quote that basically goes "Gaming community minus harassment equals Starcraft community", which is one hell of a compliment. So I'm not sure what your issue is to begin with.
My issue with that is that SC is framed as an exception that proves the rule. Why isn't the allegedly sexist fighting game community the exception that proves the rule?
On November 18 2014 00:21 Killscreen wrote: So a vocal minority spoke up against her. Most didn't care.
Not sure what point you're trying to make here. You think she deserves to be popular regardless of her skill, presumably because of her gender alone? She has earned her place, just like any other good player, proving that the community will judge people on skill alone, not gender or sexual orientation.
There's a difference between 'deserving to be popular' and not getting hateful comments because of who you are.
What's your beef here, exactly? If you wanna pretend the community's reaction to Scarlett was all sunshine and rainbows since she got here that's your prerogative, but you're not gonna find a lot of people to agree with you on that.
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: I resent this gamergate fallacy being perpetuated.
Hordes of angry young men turned their pitchforks on women (and feminist supporters) throughout the gaming industry
Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
For the record I have nothing against her. This isn't her fault ( although her support would be appreciated and valuable ). I just do not agree with the meme of gamers as angry frustrated men, and I think Scarletts acceptance in the community nicely illustrates this. It's a shame the article doesn't highlight this and instead focuses on perpetuating a bigoted myth.
Absolutely not true. Scarlett was not welcomed into the community. After her breakout performance, there were a lot of bigots posting hateful things whenever her name came up. I won't say these people were the majority, but they filled every thread where her name was mentioned.
So a vocal minority spoke up against her. Most didn't care.
It wasn't till she proved her skill through one incredible performance after another that she gained popularity. She was never popular before that and don't kid yourself that she would be so popular if she hadn't affected the foreign scene the way she did.
Not sure what point you're trying to make here. You think she deserves to be popular regardless of her skill, presumably because of her gender alone? She has earned her place, just like any other good player, proving that the community will judge people on skill alone, not gender or sexual orientation.
Eventually the haters got bored and the fans came out from every hidden corner. People are sheep. When the flavor of the day is hate, they jump on the hate train. When it's love, they jump on that one.
What is your point?
Dude I'm sorry if you felt that this article was somehow a personal aggression against yourself, but I really don't see what you're trying to do here. You complained that the article was painting every gamer as a misogynist, while there are actual parts of the article which are saying the exact opposite. You argued that the community wasn't hostile at all towards Scarlett, while even a mod said that it was wrong.
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: I resent this gamergate fallacy being perpetuated.
Hordes of angry young men turned their pitchforks on women (and feminist supporters) throughout the gaming industry
Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
For the record I have nothing against her. This isn't her fault ( although her support would be appreciated and valuable ). I just do not agree with the meme of gamers as angry frustrated men, and I think Scarletts acceptance in the community nicely illustrates this. It's a shame the article doesn't highlight this and instead focuses on perpetuating a bigoted myth.
Absolutely not true. Scarlett was not welcomed into the community. After her breakout performance, there were a lot of bigots posting hateful things whenever her name came up. I won't say these people were the majority, but they filled every thread where her name was mentioned.
So a vocal minority spoke up against her. Most didn't care.
It wasn't till she proved her skill through one incredible performance after another that she gained popularity. She was never popular before that and don't kid yourself that she would be so popular if she hadn't affected the foreign scene the way she did.
Not sure what point you're trying to make here. You think she deserves to be popular regardless of her skill, presumably because of her gender alone? She has earned her place, just like any other good player, proving that the community will judge people on skill alone, not gender or sexual orientation.
Eventually the haters got bored and the fans came out from every hidden corner. People are sheep. When the flavor of the day is hate, they jump on the hate train. When it's love, they jump on that one.
What is your point?
You said "The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome." This is bullshit. That's what I'm trying to say. You admit that the "vocal majority" were spewing hate everywhere. Does that sound like bending over backwards to welcome someone to you?
I can name a dozen programmers who never achieved as much as her and are extremely popular.
She essentially forced people to like her because she was/is the best foreign player. The hate didn't die down on it's own. It took months of her dominating the scene for it to go away.
On November 17 2014 18:55 Killscreen wrote: [quote] Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
The article made it pretty clear that the SC2 community supports Scarlett, despite idiots being present. Heck, there's a quote that basically goes "Gaming community minus harassment equals Starcraft community", which is one hell of a compliment. So I'm not sure what your issue is to begin with.
My issue with that is that SC is framed as an exception that proves the rule. Why isn't the allegedly sexist fighting game community the exception that proves the rule?
I checked your post history and you have a lengthy series of posts explaining over and over again your discomfort with transsexual people. Maybe you're not the best person to have a debate in this thread.
On November 17 2014 19:18 WigglingSquid wrote: [quote] I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
The article made it pretty clear that the SC2 community supports Scarlett, despite idiots being present. Heck, there's a quote that basically goes "Gaming community minus harassment equals Starcraft community", which is one hell of a compliment. So I'm not sure what your issue is to begin with.
My issue with that is that SC is framed as an exception that proves the rule. Why isn't the allegedly sexist fighting game community the exception that proves the rule?
I checked your post history and you have a lengthy series of post explaining over and over again your discomfort with transsexual people. Maybe you're not the best person to have a debate in this thread.
On November 17 2014 19:23 Ragnarork wrote: [quote]
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
The article made it pretty clear that the SC2 community supports Scarlett, despite idiots being present. Heck, there's a quote that basically goes "Gaming community minus harassment equals Starcraft community", which is one hell of a compliment. So I'm not sure what your issue is to begin with.
My issue with that is that SC is framed as an exception that proves the rule. Why isn't the allegedly sexist fighting game community the exception that proves the rule?
I checked your post history and you have a lengthy series of post explaining over and over again your discomfort with transsexual people. Maybe you're not the best person to have a debate in this thread.
Why am I not surprised. Baited again, sigh.
There are some really golden quotes in his post history though
On November 17 2014 19:27 lichter wrote: hendralisk also often posts in WCS AM threads. Pretty sure most pros browse. Casters are also always reading threads; Khaldor and Wolf often gave shoutouts during Code A.
iNcontroL also posts quite a lot, as well as TB.
ZombieGrub does as well. I've seen the Shoutcraft crew read some LR threads while casting sometimes.
That second paragraph is kind of poorly written and off-topic. Sure, shedding light on what her family does is cool, but having 10+ lines telling what her parents and brother do, especially the line "they prefer to call their parents Rob and Joyce," seems kind of unnecessary.
The New Yorker is strange, though, so I understand why it's there. Grats to Scarlett on the publicity.
On November 18 2014 00:50 vult wrote: That second paragraph is kind of poorly written and off-topic. Sure, shedding light on what her family does is cool, but having 10+ lines telling what her parents and brother do, especially the line "they prefer to call their parents Rob and Joyce," seems kind of unnecessary.
The New Yorker is strange, though, so I understand why it's there. Grats to Scarlett on the publicity.
The New Yorker, form what little I've read of them, like to add as much detail as possible, even ones that are unnecessary and serve no real purpose other than the I guess humanize people.
On November 18 2014 00:50 vult wrote: That second paragraph is kind of poorly written and off-topic. Sure, shedding light on what her family does is cool, but having 10+ lines telling what her parents and brother do, especially the line "they prefer to call their parents Rob and Joyce," seems kind of unnecessary.
The New Yorker is strange, though, so I understand why it's there. Grats to Scarlett on the publicity.
Why? Talking about family origins and upbringing is very much a standard part of narrative journalism.
Ah, the good old ad hominem. Why do you people always get angry when I disagree with you? I haven't said anything that reasonably should offend you. I said vocal minority, not majority. Afaik, no one in this thread has claimed these people represented the majority of the community.
To me, Scarletts popularity is a shining example of how the gaming community by and large are accepting of all people regardless of gender, race and orientation, and disproves any kind of pervasive misogynist culture that needs to be eradicated.
On November 18 2014 00:50 vult wrote: That second paragraph is kind of poorly written and off-topic. Sure, shedding light on what her family does is cool, but having 10+ lines telling what her parents and brother do, especially the line "they prefer to call their parents Rob and Joyce," seems kind of unnecessary.
Well, a lot of people find it strange that I'm on first-name basis with my parents. It says something about your upbringing and family dynamics I suppose, so I think it makes sense to put that in if you're trying to sketch a background.
My mother would smack me if I called her by her first name, so it seems very weird to me.
On November 18 2014 00:50 vult wrote: That second paragraph is kind of poorly written and off-topic. Sure, shedding light on what her family does is cool, but having 10+ lines telling what her parents and brother do, especially the line "they prefer to call their parents Rob and Joyce," seems kind of unnecessary.
The New Yorker is strange, though, so I understand why it's there. Grats to Scarlett on the publicity.
Actually I think it gives perspective on the person that you wouldn't otherwise have. I like how the article details some of her family's personal time (making Fajitas, gaming together, etc.). It's very humanizing.
On November 17 2014 18:55 Killscreen wrote: [quote] Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
The article made it pretty clear that the SC2 community supports Scarlett, despite idiots being present. Heck, there's a quote that basically goes "Gaming community minus harassment equals Starcraft community", which is one hell of a compliment. So I'm not sure what your issue is to begin with.
My issue with that is that SC is framed as an exception that proves the rule. Why isn't the allegedly sexist fighting game community the exception that proves the rule?
We are definitely in the wrong thread for this kind of discussion. Neither this thread nor the article is about sexism in gamer communities.
On November 18 2014 00:53 Killscreen wrote: Ah, the good old ad hominem. Why do you people always get angry when I disagree with you? I haven't said anything that reasonably should offend you. I said vocal minority, not majority. Afaik, no one in this thread has claimed these people represented the majority of the community.
To me, Scarletts popularity is a shining example of how the gaming community by and large are accepting of all people regardless of gender, race and orientation, and disproves any kind of pervasive misogynist culture that needs to be eradicated.
You are wrong and let me show you why:
If the gaming community was by and large accepting of all people regardless of gender, race, and orientation, as you mentioned, then Scarlett's popularity would not be a shining example of anything. Scarlett is an amazingly talented foreign player. She's on a level far higher than many Koreans even, and is capable of bringing down giants like Bomber, MC and PartinG. It's natural that she be a well liked well accepted player - she deserves it.
Rather, the fact that you believe that her success is an example of how the gaming community accepts trans-gendered people simply highlights your own bigotry. The fact is she has not had the easiest of times. Her skill is much greater than she received credit for - for a long time...
Please can we not let one guy hijack this thread? I know I'm partially to blame for continuing to engage him...
On November 18 2014 00:50 vult wrote: That second paragraph is kind of poorly written and off-topic. Sure, shedding light on what her family does is cool, but having 10+ lines telling what her parents and brother do, especially the line "they prefer to call their parents Rob and Joyce," seems kind of unnecessary.
The New Yorker is strange, though, so I understand why it's there. Grats to Scarlett on the publicity.
Actually I think it gives perspective on the person that you wouldn't otherwise have. I like how the article details some of her family's personal time (making Fajitas, gaming together, etc.). It's very humanizing.
I thought the article was well written.
it's not just any publication... you don't just get to write something for the new yorker. of course it's damn well written. halfway through and and it's great to be honest.
There's a good reason The New Yorker is considered the gold standard for longform journalism. They really dive into their stories like no one else and manage to consistently get me engaged and interested in topics I normally never think about. In this case, the author (who is obviously a newcomer to e-sports) manages to do a better job of explaining the scene than a lot of "gaming journalists" can do despite following it closely for years. Great article.
On November 18 2014 01:45 awesomoecalypse wrote: There's a good reason The New Yorker is considered the gold standard for longform journalism. They really dive into their stories like no one else and manage to consistently get me engaged and interested in topics I normally never think about. In this case, the author (who is obviously a newcomer to e-sports) manages to do a better job of explaining the scene than a lot of "gaming journalists" can do despite following it closely for years. Great article.
Very true. I had a good laugh at his bafflement at things like "gas pool". you never really think about how odd all the terminology we use sounds to a complete outsider, and how difficult it can be to follow what's really happening.
On November 18 2014 00:53 Killscreen wrote: Ah, the good old ad hominem. Why do you people always get angry when I disagree with you? I haven't said anything that reasonably should offend you. I said vocal minority, not majority. Afaik, no one in this thread has claimed these people represented the majority of the community.
To me, Scarletts popularity is a shining example of how the gaming community by and large are accepting of all people regardless of gender, race and orientation, and disproves any kind of pervasive misogynist culture that needs to be eradicated.
You are wrong and let me show you why:
If the gaming community was by and large accepting of all people regardless of gender, race, and orientation, as you mentioned, then Scarlett's popularity would not be a shining example of anything. Scarlett is an amazingly talented foreign player. She's on a level far higher than many Koreans even, and is capable of bringing down giants like Bomber, MC and PartinG. It's natural that she be a well liked well accepted player - she deserves it.
Rather, the fact that you believe that her success is an example of how the gaming community accepts trans-gendered people simply highlights your own bigotry. The fact is she has not had the easiest of times. Her skill is much greater than she received credit for - for a long time...
Please can we not let one guy hijack this thread? I know I'm partially to blame for continuing to engage him...
Wow! What a great article! I linked this on fb, hopefully some friends or relatives read it and get a kick out of it. It really seems like the perfect article to teach newcomers about the scene and hopefully even interest them!
Beyond that, the guy is just a great writer. Dat vocab.
Really well-written article, and I am very impressed by the author's range of esports knowledge given how recently he discovered the scene. His explanation of esports for outsiders is also really well done, he hits all the important points and communicates the significance without getting bogged down in trying to summarize all the different rules and strategies. Also, given his frequent of use of Starcraft and Dota 2 examples over League of Legends, I get the feeling that he visits TL quite a bit.
On November 18 2014 00:53 Killscreen wrote: Ah, the good old ad hominem. Why do you people always get angry when I disagree with you? I haven't said anything that reasonably should offend you. I said vocal minority, not majority. Afaik, no one in this thread has claimed these people represented the majority of the community.
To me, Scarletts popularity is a shining example of how the gaming community by and large are accepting of all people regardless of gender, race and orientation, and disproves any kind of pervasive misogynist culture that needs to be eradicated.
You are wrong and let me show you why:
If the gaming community was by and large accepting of all people regardless of gender, race, and orientation, as you mentioned, then Scarlett's popularity would not be a shining example of anything. Scarlett is an amazingly talented foreign player. She's on a level far higher than many Koreans even, and is capable of bringing down giants like Bomber, MC and PartinG. It's natural that she be a well liked well accepted player - she deserves it.
Rather, the fact that you believe that her success is an example of how the gaming community accepts trans-gendered people simply highlights your own bigotry. The fact is she has not had the easiest of times. Her skill is much greater than she received credit for - for a long time...
Please can we not let one guy hijack this thread? I know I'm partially to blame for continuing to engage him...
On November 18 2014 01:35 Killscreen wrote: You'll have to explain how that makes me bigoted. I stated earlier that she has earned her popularity.
It's a shining example because the gaming community is under attack for being sexist.
I wouldn't say that the gaming community is "by and large accepting of all people." It may be a vocal minority that is actively racist/sexist, or it may be the majority, but regardless, the people who have the power to most effectively speak out against that kind of behavior almost never do. Scarlett's success doesn't change that fact.
On November 18 2014 01:58 RuiBarbO wrote: Really well-written article, and I am very impressed by the author's range of esports knowledge given how recently he discovered the scene. His explanation of esports for outsiders is also really well done, he hits all the important points and communicates the significance without getting bogged down in trying to summarize all the different rules and strategies. Also, given his frequent of use of Starcraft and Dota 2 examples over League of Legends, I get the feeling that he visits TL quite a bit.
On November 18 2014 00:53 Killscreen wrote: Ah, the good old ad hominem. Why do you people always get angry when I disagree with you? I haven't said anything that reasonably should offend you. I said vocal minority, not majority. Afaik, no one in this thread has claimed these people represented the majority of the community.
To me, Scarletts popularity is a shining example of how the gaming community by and large are accepting of all people regardless of gender, race and orientation, and disproves any kind of pervasive misogynist culture that needs to be eradicated.
You are wrong and let me show you why:
If the gaming community was by and large accepting of all people regardless of gender, race, and orientation, as you mentioned, then Scarlett's popularity would not be a shining example of anything. Scarlett is an amazingly talented foreign player. She's on a level far higher than many Koreans even, and is capable of bringing down giants like Bomber, MC and PartinG. It's natural that she be a well liked well accepted player - she deserves it.
Rather, the fact that you believe that her success is an example of how the gaming community accepts trans-gendered people simply highlights your own bigotry. The fact is she has not had the easiest of times. Her skill is much greater than she received credit for - for a long time...
Please can we not let one guy hijack this thread? I know I'm partially to blame for continuing to engage him...
On November 18 2014 01:35 Killscreen wrote: You'll have to explain how that makes me bigoted. I stated earlier that she has earned her popularity.
It's a shining example because the gaming community is under attack for being sexist.
I wouldn't say that the gaming community is "by and large accepting of all people." It may be a vocal minority that is actively racist/sexist, or it may be the majority, but regardless, the people who have the power to most effectively speak out against that kind of behavior almost never do. Scarlett's success doesn't change that fact.
Mods were apparently pretty swift with their ban hammers here, and someone said the reddit posts were heavily downmodded, so there is that. In my experience the community has been rather swift in denouncing behavior like that.
Yet this meme of "sexists neckbeard virgins" persists.
On November 18 2014 01:58 RuiBarbO wrote: Really well-written article, and I am very impressed by the author's range of esports knowledge given how recently he discovered the scene. His explanation of esports for outsiders is also really well done, he hits all the important points and communicates the significance without getting bogged down in trying to summarize all the different rules and strategies. Also, given his frequent of use of Starcraft and Dota 2 examples over League of Legends, I get the feeling that he visits TL quite a bit.
On November 18 2014 00:53 Killscreen wrote: Ah, the good old ad hominem. Why do you people always get angry when I disagree with you? I haven't said anything that reasonably should offend you. I said vocal minority, not majority. Afaik, no one in this thread has claimed these people represented the majority of the community.
To me, Scarletts popularity is a shining example of how the gaming community by and large are accepting of all people regardless of gender, race and orientation, and disproves any kind of pervasive misogynist culture that needs to be eradicated.
You are wrong and let me show you why:
If the gaming community was by and large accepting of all people regardless of gender, race, and orientation, as you mentioned, then Scarlett's popularity would not be a shining example of anything. Scarlett is an amazingly talented foreign player. She's on a level far higher than many Koreans even, and is capable of bringing down giants like Bomber, MC and PartinG. It's natural that she be a well liked well accepted player - she deserves it.
Rather, the fact that you believe that her success is an example of how the gaming community accepts trans-gendered people simply highlights your own bigotry. The fact is she has not had the easiest of times. Her skill is much greater than she received credit for - for a long time...
Please can we not let one guy hijack this thread? I know I'm partially to blame for continuing to engage him...
On November 18 2014 01:35 Killscreen wrote: You'll have to explain how that makes me bigoted. I stated earlier that she has earned her popularity.
It's a shining example because the gaming community is under attack for being sexist.
I wouldn't say that the gaming community is "by and large accepting of all people." It may be a vocal minority that is actively racist/sexist, or it may be the majority, but regardless, the people who have the power to most effectively speak out against that kind of behavior almost never do. Scarlett's success doesn't change that fact.
Mods were apparently pretty swift with their ban hammers here, and someone said the reddit posts were heavily downmodded, so there is that. In my experience the community has been rather swift in denouncing behavior like that.
Yet this meme of "sexists neckbeard virgins" persists.
Your argument is all fine and dandy, but it has less and less to do with the article this thread is about. This is not a gamergate thread, and it should not become one.
Edit for relevance: This New Yorker article is fantastic. I think it would have been perfect if it could have been able to track a Korean/KeSPA player the same way it did Scarlett. But that would have been a very different article, and this was just great for the approach the author decided to take.
Loved the article, its written with an "outsider" point of view, but its very fair (someone did his research). Its a great advertising for e-sports, and its done in a healthy way too. Yet another material to feed my Scarlett fanboysm, it tells much more about her that a couple of questions and answers. But on a more serious note, Kas ruined the fajitas timing T_T
Enjoy the New Yorker writing style, always reminded me of NPR feature journalism but much more in depth, which I love. Really sets you inside the scene as well as possible, even if that scene is somewhat chaotic to an outsider at first.
Our world is a hard one to grasp at first, but I think those piece does a good job at taking the noise and clutter and streamlining it down to the essence of the passion behind the fans at the end highlight that at the end of the day we just love playing and watching the game.
Scarlett did great things for the StarCraft community, and her acceptance as a top player has really molded SC2 as the pioneer of acceptance in the gaming world, especially as the article mentions in contrast to fighting games. As someone with close friends in the FGC world it's somewhat shocking to hear the offensive things come out of their mouths that are socially acceptable. Sad to see that almost proud mentality to hold a sexist view by stating that removing the offensiveness boils their fanbase to "simply StarCraft".
Either way,I've always been a big fan of Scarlett, and I think this post is a great share amongst those who don't understand esports or StarCraft. Love it.
"I wouldn't say that the gaming community is "by and large accepting of all people." It may be a vocal minority that is actively racist/sexist, or it may be the majority, but regardless, the people who have the power to most effectively speak out against that kind of behavior almost never do. Scarlett's success doesn't change that fact."
Yes and no. As I recall, in the early days of Scarlett gaining noteriety whenever there was a thread about her the topic of her sexual identity became the focus for a large percentage of the commentators. Eventually the TL mods wisely grew tired of every Scarlett thread being an ongoing sexual identity debate thread and banned people for discussing Scarlett's sexual identification, while allowing a seperate thread to debate / educate people on the various topics pertaining to sexual identity, the same way that Left/Right politics are generally condoned off to a seperate area, a classically liberal "agree to disagree" approach.
Slurs about transgenderism were banned outright but as I recall sincere inquiery and sketicism were allowed. I read those threads the related links and learned a lot about the issue. So, generally, I feel that here on TL the "people who had the power" took the conversation in a constructive direction without stifling free inquery.
So, while one can be upset that people were making disparaging remarks about transgenderism in the first place, hateful slurs were banned, and the prevailing attitute was acceptance. If your standard for judging a community is that intolerance never happans, your goal is not tolerance, but social control. The question is whether intolerance is spoken out against. Is there a sizable chunk of people that recognize a behavior as wrong? Yes? Then the overall community isn't reflective of that behavior.
So you have to ask what double standards are never recognized as unfair?
We'll, 100 internet point to the first person who mentions an obvious double legal standard mentioned in the New Yorker article that no one so far on this thread has identified as morally wrong.
On November 18 2014 02:39 Ashakyre wrote: We'll, 100 internet point to the first person who mentions an obvious double legal standard mentioned in the New Yorker article that no one so far on this thread has identified as morally wrong.
Any takers?
If you think it's worth discussing, why don't you just say it?
On November 18 2014 02:46 c0ldfusion wrote: I just read this article.
Holy crap, Scarlett is a prodigy. Truly deserving of carrying the banner as the foreign hope.
No kidding. I kind of knew she was pretty exceptional since she made GM and won stuff in less than a year of starting the game, but it seems like that carries over to a lot of other things. Pretty interesting, wish I was that smart and talented.
On November 18 2014 02:50 c0ldfusion wrote: This is a solid piece of journalism. If you haven't, you guys should read the whole article. It's worth the time.
Yep, this is top level journalism. I would totally buy a book written by this guy telling stories of different progamers in the style of what he did with Scarlett here.
The best article I've read about SC2 and e-sports from a mainstream, well-regarded journalism source. Very well researched, respects e-sports and doesn't deride it, is easy accessible for anyone who is completely new to e-sports and well written. Scarlett was a great focus point because of how different she is from the average SC2 player or pro and the writer definitely made it work.
On November 18 2014 02:59 Holdenintherye wrote: Most surprised to read that she practices so little o.O
Practices so little now, I'm sure she didn't get good that way. Watching games and thinking about it is almost as useful as regular practice if you know what you're doing.
On November 18 2014 02:59 Holdenintherye wrote: Most surprised to read that she practices so little o.O
Practices so little now, I'm sure she didn't get good that way. Watching games and thinking about it is almost as useful as regular practice if you know what you're doing.
Yeah you need to be actually good before you can just watch.
I can watch PartinG all day long but I'm still garbage at PvT :/
I knew it would be a good, long read because of the source but I agree with people saying it's the one of the best pieces written about the scene sc2 community or w/e.
On November 18 2014 02:59 Holdenintherye wrote: Most surprised to read that she practices so little o.O
Practices so little now, I'm sure she didn't get good that way. Watching games and thinking about it is almost as useful as regular practice if you know what you're doing.
But didnt PRO need practice micro and macro?if they practice like 8hours micro/macro they will have better splits with marines or better blink micro like parting or better anti-mine micro as zerg. And thats why they winning big turnamets.You cant get better micro/macro only by watching vods i think. Is this true or not?
On November 18 2014 02:59 Holdenintherye wrote: Most surprised to read that she practices so little o.O
Practices so little now, I'm sure she didn't get good that way. Watching games and thinking about it is almost as useful as regular practice if you know what you're doing.
But didnt PRO need practice micro and macro?if they practice like 8hours micro/macro they will have better splits with marines or better blink micro like parting or better anti-mine micro as zerg. And thats why they winning big turnamets.You cant get better micro/macro only by watching vods i think. Is this true or not?
Well, Scarlett doesn't really win tournaments so there is truth to that I'd assume. Still, it's better to be somewhat successful and not blow out your wrists than to win a few things and then ruin your body (RIP Mvp), it seems like that's what she thinks.
On November 18 2014 02:59 Holdenintherye wrote: Most surprised to read that she practices so little o.O
Practices so little now, I'm sure she didn't get good that way. Watching games and thinking about it is almost as useful as regular practice if you know what you're doing.
But didnt PRO need practice micro and macro?if they practice like 8hours micro/macro they will have better splits with marines or better blink micro like parting or better anti-mine micro as zerg. And thats why they winning big turnamets.You cant get better micro/macro only by watching vods i think. Is this true or not?
Well, Scarlett doesn't really win tournaments so there is truth to that I'd assume. Still, it's better to be somewhat successful and not blow out your wrists than to win a few things and then ruin your body (RIP Mvp), it seems like that's what she thinks.
Well it will be interesting know how much other players like snute/bunny practice or Teaja he also have wrist injury and he winning turnamets:D Btw scarlett wins like 4 major turnamets but still waiting for premier
And ofc is better practice 4 hours and still been on scarlett level(one of best foreigners, beating top koreans) than practice 10hours and ruin wrist in 1 month and then retire..
On November 18 2014 02:39 Ashakyre wrote: We'll, 100 internet point to the first person who mentions an obvious double legal standard mentioned in the New Yorker article that no one so far on this thread has identified as morally wrong.
Any takers?
If you think it's worth discussing, why don't you just say it?
I wanted to see if anyone else noticed. It's about whether a conversation even happens, not just whether it's a majority or minority that hold a certain opinion.
If a few more pages go without notice by maybe I'll offer a hint or two.
On November 18 2014 02:59 Holdenintherye wrote: Most surprised to read that she practices so little o.O
Practices so little now, I'm sure she didn't get good that way. Watching games and thinking about it is almost as useful as regular practice if you know what you're doing.
But didnt PRO need practice micro and macro?if they practice like 8hours micro/macro they will have better splits with marines or better blink micro like parting or better anti-mine micro as zerg. And thats why they winning big turnamets.You cant get better micro/macro only by watching vods i think. Is this true or not?
Well, Scarlett doesn't really win tournaments so there is truth to that I'd assume. Still, it's better to be somewhat successful and not blow out your wrists than to win a few things and then ruin your body (RIP Mvp), it seems like that's what she thinks.
Well it will be interesting know how much other players like snute/bunny practice or Teaja he also have wrist injury and he winning turnamets:D Btw scarlett wins like 4 major turnamets but still waiting for premier
I know she's won some stuff, I kind of misspoke. I mean she doesn't win big stuff and doesn't really have a chance to. She'd have to be very very lucky to even make Code S, for example. I would bet big money guys like Taeja and Zest and Life don't just practice 3-4 hours a day, and that's the difference really.
On November 18 2014 02:39 Ashakyre wrote: We'll, 100 internet point to the first person who mentions an obvious double legal standard mentioned in the New Yorker article that no one so far on this thread has identified as morally wrong.
Any takers?
If you think it's worth discussing, why don't you just say it?
I wanted to see if anyone else noticed. It's about whether a conversation even happens, not just whether it's a majority or minority that hold a certain opinion.
If a few more pages go without notice by maybe I'll offer a hint or two.
Great article. Well-written, well-researched and accurate. I loved the part about Scarlett beating the locals at Chinese chess.
On a side note, it seems like every time I read a mainstream article about Starcraft, it involves Day[9]. He's well on his way to becoming famous, and not just e-famous.
On November 18 2014 03:55 SFDuality wrote: Great article. Well-written, well-researched and accurate. I loved the part about Scarlett beating the locals at Chinese chess.
On a side note, it seems like every time I read a mainstream article about Starcraft, it involves Day[9]. He's well on his way to becoming famous, and not just e-famous.
Sean knows how to market himself pretty well, plus he's a very marketable personality for the mainstream to get behind. Pretty glad he's in the community, even if he has a slightly lesser role these days.
On November 18 2014 03:55 SFDuality wrote: Great article. Well-written, well-researched and accurate. I loved the part about Scarlett beating the locals at Chinese chess.
On a side note, it seems like every time I read a mainstream article about Starcraft, it involves Day[9]. He's well on his way to becoming famous, and not just e-famous.
Sean knows how to market himself pretty well, plus he's a very marketable personality for the mainstream to get behind. Pretty glad he's in the community, even if he has a slightly lesser role these days.
For sure. Day[9]'s done more for SC2's growth and popularity than just about anyone else in the scene. He, Husky and HD were the ones who got me into watching SC2 instead of just playing it. If there's to be an official "face of Starcraft", we really can't do much better than Sean Plott.
RIP DAY9 Xboct confirmed hot grill Hope MCs anus is stretched enough cause hes gonna get raped In LoL you play LEGENDS. Sc2 you play insects an shit hahaha That make them shut up if you say who she fucked she never seen me so Oh, plz day nine is not dead again is he?
lol they copy pasted twitch chat into the new yorker, holy shit
On November 18 2014 02:59 Holdenintherye wrote: Most surprised to read that she practices so little o.O
Practices so little now, I'm sure she didn't get good that way. Watching games and thinking about it is almost as useful as regular practice if you know what you're doing.
She played about 20 games per day in the months leading up to IPL4 according to a very old interview that I probably won't be able to find now. That's a lot but there are pros who play even more.
RIP DAY9 Xboct confirmed hot grill Hope MCs anus is stretched enough cause hes gonna get raped In LoL you play LEGENDS. Sc2 you play insects an shit hahaha That make them shut up if you say who she fucked she never seen me so Oh, plz day nine is not dead again is he?
lol they copy pasted twitch chat into the new yorker, holy shit
This article was brilliant. It was well written and covers a lot of interesting stuff. My only beef with it is it really kind of presents the idea of Scarlett being the hope for the game and Koreans being the bad guys as a universal opinion among the Starcraft 2 community. Other than that I love it. Thank you so much Ben McGrath!
This has to be the best article on progaming I've ever read in mainstream media. It's very well researched, thorough, entertaining and contains no factual errors. Absolutely worth the long read.
On November 18 2014 04:48 Scorch wrote: This has to be the best article on progaming I've ever read in mainstream media. It's very well researched, thorough, entertaining and contains no factual errors. Absolutely worth the long read.
Well, Naniwa ragequit against Polt, not DRG, so there's a minor factual error in there.
On November 18 2014 04:48 Scorch wrote: This has to be the best article on progaming I've ever read in mainstream media. It's very well researched, thorough, entertaining and contains no factual errors. Absolutely worth the long read.
Well, Naniwa ragequit against Polt, not DRG, so there's a minor factual error in there.
I sent them an e-mail about that and they corrected it :D
Might be due to someone else's e-mail as well of course, but it's nice to see that they fixed it.
On November 18 2014 04:48 Scorch wrote: This has to be the best article on progaming I've ever read in mainstream media. It's very well researched, thorough, entertaining and contains no factual errors. Absolutely worth the long read.
Well, Naniwa ragequit against Polt, not DRG, so there's a minor factual error in there.
I sent them an e-mail about that and they corrected it :D
Might be due to someone else's e-mail as well of course, but it's nice to see that they fixed it.
Ah, very nice. That's the only one I noticed when reading it. Glad it's fixed. Wouldn't want casuals thinking that anyone other than Captain America could force a player into retirement.
Honestly, this article will probably become my go to link when I'm trying to explain SC2/e-sports to someone who has no familiarity with the scene. I mean, it's obviously great for those of us who already love it to see it written about with this sort of insight, intelligence, and commitment to getting all the facts. But for those who don't already know about this stuff I think it's especially helpful, because honestly most gamers/those involved in gaming media are pretty bad about explaining their passions to non-gamers--part of what sets Day[9] apart from most casters and commentators is that he can really appeal to everyone, not just the hardcore, and I think this article is another good example of how to do that well.
I would send this to my family, but... Scarlett. ._. It was also pretty long, but covered a lot of different aspects of the professional scene. It was a decent read anyway.
On November 18 2014 05:39 The_Templar wrote: I would send this to my family, but... Scarlett. ._. It was also pretty long, but covered a lot of different aspects of the professional scene. It was a decent read anyway.
I'm sure your family would love to know more about your best friend. Send it anyway (I'm gonna send it to mine)
On November 18 2014 05:39 The_Templar wrote: I would send this to my family, but... Scarlett. ._. It was also pretty long, but covered a lot of different aspects of the professional scene. It was a decent read anyway.
I'm sure your family would love to know more about your best friend. Send it anyway (I'm gonna send it to mine)
During breaks between matches at the Lincoln, the producers aired personalizing video interviews with the contestants, mostly using subtitles, and it was easy, for an American raised on Mike Tyson and Neon Deion, to see why Scarlett’s differentiation seemed to matter. Here was Bomber: “Every single loss is a life lesson.” And last year’s world champion, sOs: “In my opinion, I don’t have the strongest mind-set as a professional player.” (He noted, “I think we’re all equally handsome.”) A relative newcomer named Trap: “When I was a rookie, I had the wrong mind-set toward losses. . . . I was overwhelmed with pessimism. I think that’s what kept me from coming out of my shell.” DongRaeGu: “I can utilize Red Bull Battle Grounds as potent fertilizer for a rich harvest next season.” He added, “I can’t stand being smacked around any longer.” Scarlett (whose reticence, in this instance, was pretty much the norm): “Mostly, success for me would be about being happy.” Only PartinG diverted from the humble messaging. “I am one of the gods,” he said.
Gotta love PartinG (especially since he backs it up). OTOH, I wish this writer could have met MC, who basically takes the stereotype of the quiet humble progamer and blows it to smithereens. Funny that arguably the two most successful Protoss in SC2 history are both such cocky mofos. I guess something about Toss just attracts those with a lot of swag
On November 18 2014 05:39 The_Templar wrote: I would send this to my family, but... Scarlett. ._. It was also pretty long, but covered a lot of different aspects of the professional scene. It was a decent read anyway.
I'm sure your family would love to know more about your best friend. Send it anyway (I'm gonna send it to mine)
Wow, what a nice read! As a very avid/vocal fan, and one of the biggest in the LR threads, I must say I really liked this. A very good coverage of the Starcraft 2 professional scene from an outsiders POV and definitely a good entry point for those who don't know/are confused as to exactly what Starcraft is about. Very long and thorough and meanders like lichter said but it serves it's purpose well! Although it was Polt that sent Naniwa packing, not DRG
I also loved the part about Scarlett beating the Chinese locals! An actual grandmaster before even playing sc2!
Cool, nice way to get some exposure for SC2! I actually really liked the tone throughout the whole article, well written. I can say that I'm proud to be part of this community. Good times
On November 18 2014 05:39 The_Templar wrote: I would send this to my family, but... Scarlett. ._. It was also pretty long, but covered a lot of different aspects of the professional scene. It was a decent read anyway.
I'm sure your family would love to know more about your best friend. Send it anyway (I'm gonna send it to mine)
Scarlett is not my friend
Friend, crush, whatever you wanna call it
That's not very funny any more, the joke has gotten old
On November 18 2014 05:39 The_Templar wrote: I would send this to my family, but... Scarlett. ._. It was also pretty long, but covered a lot of different aspects of the professional scene. It was a decent read anyway.
I'm sure your family would love to know more about your best friend. Send it anyway (I'm gonna send it to mine)
Scarlett is not my friend
Friend, crush, whatever you wanna call it
That's not very funny any more, the joke has gotten old
Okay fine... can I go back to making jokes about you being a spoiled rich kid or is that too old too?
On November 18 2014 05:39 The_Templar wrote: I would send this to my family, but... Scarlett. ._. It was also pretty long, but covered a lot of different aspects of the professional scene. It was a decent read anyway.
I'm sure your family would love to know more about your best friend. Send it anyway (I'm gonna send it to mine)
Scarlett is not my friend
Friend, crush, whatever you wanna call it
That's not very funny any more, the joke has gotten old
Okay fine... can I go back to making jokes about you being a spoiled rich kid or is that too old too?
That is also too old and preferably restricted to that WCS finals thread.
On November 18 2014 05:39 The_Templar wrote: I would send this to my family, but... Scarlett. ._. It was also pretty long, but covered a lot of different aspects of the professional scene. It was a decent read anyway.
I'm sure your family would love to know more about your best friend. Send it anyway (I'm gonna send it to mine)
Scarlett is not my friend
Friend, crush, whatever you wanna call it
That's not very funny any more, the joke has gotten old
Okay fine... can I go back to making jokes about you being a spoiled rich kid or is that too old too?
That is also too old and preferably restricted to that WCS finals thread.
Well damn it, now I have no more jokes about you... uh... crap... how's the weather up there?
Really like how this turned out. I'd heard this was happening thanks to the New Yorker when she did her AMAA, but I'm still pleasantly surprised by how it's turned out.
On November 18 2014 05:42 awesomoecalypse wrote: Funny that arguably the two most successful Protoss in SC2 history are both such cocky mofos. I guess something about Toss just attracts those with a lot of swag
I think it has to do with Toss being able to control the flow of the game. If 'Toss is going for a blink all-in, you don't decide "Well, I'm going to go for a composition that's good against blink Stalker builds, so no you won't.", you either survive what they throw at you or... you don't.
On November 18 2014 14:42 madnessman wrote: Cool article. I love how the author spend so much time in the beginning trying to legitimize the difficulty and competitiveness of SC2.
That was my favorite part. A lot of articles out there seem to only care about the fact that its a computer game.
On November 18 2014 15:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I do love the stab at Naniwa
stab? I loved the nani part, him being mentioned beating her 4:2 was <3 and made me wish even more he would come back to take the crown of king in the north and best foreigner.
On November 18 2014 05:39 The_Templar wrote: I would send this to my family, but... Scarlett. ._. It was also pretty long, but covered a lot of different aspects of the professional scene. It was a decent read anyway.
I'm sure your family would love to know more about your best friend. Send it anyway (I'm gonna send it to mine)
Scarlett is not my friend
Friend, crush, whatever you wanna call it
That's not very funny any more, the joke has gotten old
Shouldn't have attracted Scarlett's attention by cheering against her then
On November 18 2014 05:39 The_Templar wrote: I would send this to my family, but... Scarlett. ._. It was also pretty long, but covered a lot of different aspects of the professional scene. It was a decent read anyway.
I'm sure your family would love to know more about your best friend. Send it anyway (I'm gonna send it to mine)
Scarlett is not my friend
Friend, crush, whatever you wanna call it
That's not very funny any more, the joke has gotten old
Shouldn't have attracted Scarlett's attention by cheering against her then
I didn't mean to though... it just sort of happened, then I went along with it for a while
On November 18 2014 06:31 CosmicSpiral wrote: Meandering is what the New Yorker does. Chatty, accessible writing at its best.
i really disagree it's like so long and boring
also the tone is somewhat condescendant
not to mention the video game prodigy angle wich is like getting pretty old since it's in every single gaming article written about a competitive player
On November 18 2014 06:31 CosmicSpiral wrote: Meandering is what the New Yorker does. Chatty, accessible writing at its best.
i really disagree it's like so long and boring
yes but it's about Scarlett so it's worth it Fanboy here.
and that's what annoys me the most because writer keeps portraying the whole "boring" environement and her personality is like totally absent from the paper
feels like im reading about a ghost or some dead person
On November 18 2014 06:31 CosmicSpiral wrote: Meandering is what the New Yorker does. Chatty, accessible writing at its best.
i really disagree it's like so long and boring
yes but it's about Scarlett so it's worth it Fanboy here.
and that's what annoys me the most because writer keeps portraying the whole "boring" environement and her personality is like totally absent from the paper
feels like im reading about a ghost or some dead person
The article is so long precisely because it makes a very precise description of Scarlett's family, origins, personal background and behavior/personality traits and you feel like you're reading about a ghost? Oo
On November 18 2014 06:31 CosmicSpiral wrote: Meandering is what the New Yorker does. Chatty, accessible writing at its best.
i really disagree it's like so long and boring
yes but it's about Scarlett so it's worth it Fanboy here.
and that's what annoys me the most because writer keeps portraying the whole "boring" environement and her personality is like totally absent from the paper
feels like im reading about a ghost or some dead person
The article is so long precisely because it makes a very precise description of Scarlett's family, origins, personal background and behavior/personality traits and you feel like you're reading about a ghost? Oo
yep its so casual, laconic and random at times it feels it could be anyone hes talking about
On November 18 2014 05:39 The_Templar wrote: I would send this to my family, but... Scarlett. ._. It was also pretty long, but covered a lot of different aspects of the professional scene. It was a decent read anyway.
I'm sure your family would love to know more about your best friend. Send it anyway (I'm gonna send it to mine)
On November 18 2014 06:31 CosmicSpiral wrote: Meandering is what the New Yorker does. Chatty, accessible writing at its best.
i really disagree it's like so long and boring
yes but it's about Scarlett so it's worth it Fanboy here.
and that's what annoys me the most because writer keeps portraying the whole "boring" environement and her personality is like totally absent from the paper
feels like im reading about a ghost or some dead person
The article is so long precisely because it makes a very precise description of Scarlett's family, origins, personal background and behavior/personality traits and you feel like you're reading about a ghost? Oo
yep its so casual, laconic and random at times it feels it could be anyone hes talking about
"casual and laconic" is a very specific style that he is aiming for, and that is stylistically mandated by the publication for which he works. it's not a bad way of approaching profiles. his job is to be there without being there, so the subject feels comfortable and personable (which cuts both ways: the journalist has to draw out reticent subjects, but he also has to curb the performance of outgoing or particularly motivated subjects who know all too well that he is their window to a target audience). the writing reflects that.
Well written article and yes if you don't appreciate the style New Yorker articles are written in, then this one won't appeal to you as well, but it has less to do with this article than the publication.
Anyway Scarletts made me her fan and I don't even watch SC2, I hope she does well in whatever she endeavours to do
I always loved watching Scarlett play because of her creep spread and the surrounds she maneuvers for in engagements. To me, at least in the earlier days, she was an example of a player with a unique style, even if she didn't have same list of top tournaments wins as an MVP or a DRG, kind of like TLO. As a a general fan of Starcraft I've always been drawn to players who don't just win but win in a way that other players don't. It raises more interesting questions about the metagame and gives me hope as a "solidly mediocre" player that I can create my own weird builds that would never work in a professional tournament but would make for memorable victories at the gold/plat level.
But when Scarlett moved from being a notable North American player to a top foreigner, that was very exciting. And when she moved from being a top foreigner to a top 30 world wide zerg, that was really cool to see. It was inspiring to see how quickly she emerged from nowhere and become a serious contender in any tournament she entered.
Also, there was always a sort of quiet dignity that she carried herself with that's becoming lost these days in society at large, and it's comforting to know that people like that can still succeed.
On November 19 2014 00:32 DarkNetHunter wrote: Well written article and yes if you don't appreciate the style New Yorker articles are written in, then this one won't appeal to you as well, but it has less to do with this article than the publication.
Anyway Scarletts made me her fan and I don't even watch SC2, I hope she does well in whatever she endeavours to do
you're right its pretty much like sc2, not very exciting x_x
On November 19 2014 00:32 DarkNetHunter wrote: Well written article and yes if you don't appreciate the style New Yorker articles are written in, then this one won't appeal to you as well, but it has less to do with this article than the publication.
Anyway Scarletts made me her fan and I don't even watch SC2, I hope she does well in whatever she endeavours to do
you're right its pretty much like sc2, not very exciting x_x
Could've said it right at the beginning I'd avoid wasting time on your posts.
On November 19 2014 00:36 Ashakyre wrote: I always loved watching Scarlett play because of her creep spread
okay
Why are you trolling this thread so hard? Its big news for Scarlet to be written about in the New Yorker to a lot of people. Quit being such a blowhard.
On November 19 2014 00:36 Ashakyre wrote: I always loved watching Scarlett play because of her creep spread
okay
Why are you trolling this thread so hard? Its big news for Scarlet to be written about in the New Yorker to a lot of people. Quit being such a blowhard.
what am i trolling ? the guy writes a whole paragraph about what makes the player stand out in his eyes and starts with that i guess im fed up with english casting brainwashed viewers and nowhere i said this isn't great for scarlett my critic was merely stating that scarlett comes out of the article rather dull and uninteresting and to me that pretty much comes from the stupid angle and the way it's written (pretty badly) i wished it came out much greater than what it is especially considering the length the fact its prestigious and benefical for the player doesn't mean I have to praise it
On November 19 2014 00:36 Ashakyre wrote: I always loved watching Scarlett play because of her creep spread
okay
Why are you trolling this thread so hard? Its big news for Scarlet to be written about in the New Yorker to a lot of people. Quit being such a blowhard.
what am i trolling ? the guy writes a whole paragraph about what makes the player stand out in his eyes and starts with that i guess im fed up with english casting brainwashed viewers and nowhere i said this isn't great for scarlett my critic was merely stating that scarlett comes out of the article rather dull and uninteresting and to me that pretty much comes from the stupid angle and the way it's written (pretty badly) i wished it came out much greater than what it is especially considering the length the fact its prestigious and benefical for the player doesn't mean I have to praise it
Nobody is asking you to praise it. I am asking you not to be a dick to other posters with a different opinion. But whatever, you're right, everyone else is wrong etc etc.
On November 19 2014 00:36 Ashakyre wrote: I always loved watching Scarlett play because of her creep spread
okay
Why are you trolling this thread so hard? Its big news for Scarlet to be written about in the New Yorker to a lot of people. Quit being such a blowhard.
what am i trolling ? the guy writes a whole paragraph about what makes the player stand out in his eyes and starts with that i guess im fed up with english casting brainwashed viewers and nowhere i said this isn't great for scarlett my critic was merely stating that scarlett comes out of the article rather dull and uninteresting and to me that pretty much comes from the stupid angle and the way it's written (pretty badly) i wished it came out much greater than what it is especially considering the length the fact its prestigious and benefical for the player doesn't mean I have to praise it
Nobody is asking you to praise it. I am asking you not to be a dick to other posters with a different opinion. But whatever, you're right, everyone else is wrong etc etc.
guy had quoted me two posts above and i was merely replying to what he said maybe you missed that i don't randomly attack ppl
the guy writes a whole paragraph about what makes the player stand out in his eyes and starts with that
Not entirely sure why you think this is so weird, Scarlett's creep spread is probably her defining characteristic from a gameplay perspective.
But what do I know, I'm probably just an "english casting brainwashed viewer" as well.
its a fundamental not a characteristic top zerg pro gamer can spread creep
Yet her creep spread has always been a charateristic of her play for being so good, to the point where pro players streaming recognize her under a barcode account because of that (seen on Grubby's stream). Yes it is a fundamental, but it doesn't mean that all top zergs have an equal creep spreading ability. edit : I mean you're being kinda absurd here. The creep spread mechanic has been incorporated partly with the goal of rewarding Zerg players who have good mechanics and it is a fully manual mechanism. So obviously having a creep spread of a given quality is a characteristic. Even your Bronze Zerg can spread creep, but only some top Zergs can have a fast, consistent, multidirectional, in short as perfect as possible creepspread.
the guy writes a whole paragraph about what makes the player stand out in his eyes and starts with that
Not entirely sure why you think this is so weird, Scarlett's creep spread is probably her defining characteristic from a gameplay perspective.
But what do I know, I'm probably just an "english casting brainwashed viewer" as well.
its a fundamental not a characteristic top zerg pro gamer can spread creep
. Even your Bronze Zerg can spread creep, but only some top Zergs can have a fast, consistent, multidirectional, in short as perfect as possible creepspread.
the guy writes a whole paragraph about what makes the player stand out in his eyes and starts with that
Not entirely sure why you think this is so weird, Scarlett's creep spread is probably her defining characteristic from a gameplay perspective.
But what do I know, I'm probably just an "english casting brainwashed viewer" as well.
its a fundamental not a characteristic top zerg pro gamer can spread creep
. Even your Bronze Zerg can spread creep, but only some top Zergs can have a fast, consistent, multidirectional, in short as perfect as possible creepspread.
For a while, I found myself sitting next to a slick-haired, barrel-chested man in an untucked button-down, pressed jeans, and black loafers who was drinking beer at a football fan’s pace. I’d guess that he was in his thirties. “I equate it to poker,” he said. “Fifteen years ago, if you mentioned Texas Hold ’Em, you were considered a degenerate gambler.” He seemed to know his stuff. “Gg right there, bro,” he called out, during a game between two players named Polt and Cure, in which Cure had staked a sizable lead. “You don’t come back from a forty-supply deficit, T v. T.” (That’s Terran v. Terran. I knew that much.) My seatmate got around in the course of the weekend, and someone later speculated that he was a promoter of “show matches,” a Don King figure who arranges grudge matches between prominent StarCraft players and then sells advertising against them.
For a while, I found myself sitting next to a slick-haired, barrel-chested man in an untucked button-down, pressed jeans, and black loafers who was drinking beer at a football fan’s pace. I’d guess that he was in his thirties. “I equate it to poker,” he said. “Fifteen years ago, if you mentioned Texas Hold ’Em, you were considered a degenerate gambler.” He seemed to know his stuff. “Gg right there, bro,” he called out, during a game between two players named Polt and Cure, in which Cure had staked a sizable lead. “You don’t come back from a forty-supply deficit, T v. T.” (That’s Terran v. Terran. I knew that much.) My seatmate got around in the course of the weekend, and someone later speculated that he was a promoter of “show matches,” a Don King figure who arranges grudge matches between prominent StarCraft players and then sells advertising against them.
I'm really glad this article focused on Scarlett, because there was a time earlier in SC2's life where "feature article about the best North American SC2 player" would have probably ended up being about someone like IdrA, who frankly embodies a lot of the negative stereotypes non-gamers have about gamers. Scarlett might be a little shy, but as a representative of what the SC2 community is all about she's a good subject because she's not only skilled and has an interesting story, she handles herself with maturity and a positive attitude. A lot of people who don't normally follow gaming in any way are going to read this story, and I think it could actually dispell some negative preconceptions they might have about esports and gaming in general
On November 19 2014 04:23 awesomoecalypse wrote: I'm really glad this article focused on Scarlett, because there was a time earlier in SC2's life where "feature article about the best North American SC2 player" would have probably ended up being about someone like IdrA, who frankly embodies a lot of the negative stereotypes non-gamers have about gamers. Scarlett might be a little shy, but as a representative of what the SC2 community is all about she's a good subject because she's not only skilled and has an interesting story, she handles herself with maturity and a positive attitude. A lot of people who don't normally follow gaming in any way are going to read this story, and I think it could actually dispell some negative preconceptions they might have about esports and gaming in general
It's true, I sent this to my mother and she said "so wait, these people aren't fat nerds living in their parents basements?" and she was 100% serious.
On November 19 2014 04:23 awesomoecalypse wrote: I'm really glad this article focused on Scarlett, because there was a time earlier in SC2's life where "feature article about the best North American SC2 player" would have probably ended up being about someone like IdrA, who frankly embodies a lot of the negative stereotypes non-gamers have about gamers. Scarlett might be a little shy, but as a representative of what the SC2 community is all about she's a good subject because she's not only skilled and has an interesting story, she handles herself with maturity and a positive attitude. A lot of people who don't normally follow gaming in any way are going to read this story, and I think it could actually dispell some negative preconceptions they might have about esports and gaming in general
It's true, I sent this to my mother and she said "so wait, these people aren't fat nerds living in their parents basements?" and she was 100% serious.
Yes, I think we underestimate how badly some people picture progamers. Some of my friends were shocked to learn that they have gyms in the Korean teamhouse and that they have a regular sport schedule (well they were shocked to learn that they lived in teamhouses and not alone, cut off from any social interaction to begin with)
For a while, I found myself sitting next to a slick-haired, barrel-chested man in an untucked button-down, pressed jeans, and black loafers who was drinking beer at a football fan’s pace. I’d guess that he was in his thirties. “I equate it to poker,” he said. “Fifteen years ago, if you mentioned Texas Hold ’Em, you were considered a degenerate gambler.” He seemed to know his stuff. “Gg right there, bro,” he called out, during a game between two players named Polt and Cure, in which Cure had staked a sizable lead. “You don’t come back from a forty-supply deficit, T v. T.” (That’s Terran v. Terran. I knew that much.) My seatmate got around in the course of the weekend, and someone later speculated that he was a promoter of “show matches,” a Don King figure who arranges grudge matches between prominent StarCraft players and then sells advertising against them.
Nathanias? :D
He's 21 bro
I know, but ; 1] Nathanias can drink like he's a football fan. 2] when he hasn't shaved, he could easily pass as 30+. 3] He knows his TvT 4] Just imagine him saying "Gg right there, bro" while having drank some beers 5] He was there. 6] He does aranges showmatches..
Pretty solid points i'm making I think
OT: This article is amazing, I have 'giggled' quite a few times at alot of the parts. And the past years I have been saying to most of my friends (who don't follow any type of E-sports at all) that this will come in the following generations (I think it will take 2 or 3, but maybe I'm already underestimating the growth of gaming). + Show Spoiler +
E-sports partisans like to point out that the rules of football are baffling, too, if you don’t grow up with them, and I sometimes wondered, as I mirrored Twitch streams on our family TV screen, whether my struggles to make sense of creep spread and proxy reapers were all that different from the experience of my wife, who was brought up in a sports-free household, sitting through the Jets vs. the Steelers. Our two-year-old son has been running around the house for weeks chanting “Scar-lett! Scar-lett!,” in imitation of the crowd at a tournament in Toronto that we once watched. Scarlett is, in a sense, his first introduction to fandom. He doesn’t think it’s unusual.
For a while, I found myself sitting next to a slick-haired, barrel-chested man in an untucked button-down, pressed jeans, and black loafers who was drinking beer at a football fan’s pace. I’d guess that he was in his thirties. “I equate it to poker,” he said. “Fifteen years ago, if you mentioned Texas Hold ’Em, you were considered a degenerate gambler.” He seemed to know his stuff. “Gg right there, bro,” he called out, during a game between two players named Polt and Cure, in which Cure had staked a sizable lead. “You don’t come back from a forty-supply deficit, T v. T.” (That’s Terran v. Terran. I knew that much.) My seatmate got around in the course of the weekend, and someone later speculated that he was a promoter of “show matches,” a Don King figure who arranges grudge matches between prominent StarCraft players and then sells advertising against them.
Nathanias? :D
He's 21 bro
I know, but ; 1] Nathanias can drink like he's a football fan. 2] when he hasn't shaved, he could easily pass as 30+. 3] He knows his TvT 4] Just imagine him saying "Gg right there, bro" while having drank some beers 5] He was there. 6] He does aranges showmatches..
Pretty solid points i'm making I think
OT: This article is amazing, I have 'giggled' quite a few times at alot of the parts. And the past years I have been saying to most of my friends (who don't follow any type of E-sports at all) that this will come in the following generations (I think it will take 2 or 3, but maybe I'm already underestimating the growth of gaming). + Show Spoiler +
E-sports partisans like to point out that the rules of football are baffling, too, if you don’t grow up with them, and I sometimes wondered, as I mirrored Twitch streams on our family TV screen, whether my struggles to make sense of creep spread and proxy reapers were all that different from the experience of my wife, who was brought up in a sports-free household, sitting through the Jets vs. the Steelers. Our two-year-old son has been running around the house for weeks chanting “Scar-lett! Scar-lett!,” in imitation of the crowd at a tournament in Toronto that we once watched. Scarlett is, in a sense, his first introduction to fandom. He doesn’t think it’s unusual.
A lot of people think Nathanias is a lot older, so I was just making sure. It very well could be him.
I don't recall speaking to anyone from the New Yorker, so unless I had a LOT of drinks I'm not sure it's possible I could call the game GG from the crowds while I was casting the match
On November 19 2014 08:40 Nathanias wrote: I don't recall speaking to anyone from the New Yorker, so unless I had a LOT of drinks I'm not sure it's possible I could call the game GG from the crowds while I was casting the match
Nathanias confirmed Doppelganger, or he projected his astral image, wich ever is more posible.
On November 19 2014 08:40 Nathanias wrote: I don't recall speaking to anyone from the New Yorker, so unless I had a LOT of drinks I'm not sure it's possible I could call the game GG from the crowds while I was casting the match
If there's one thing I've learned about Nathanias, it's that you should never underestimate his ability to get drunk.
On November 19 2014 04:23 awesomoecalypse wrote: I'm really glad this article focused on Scarlett, because there was a time earlier in SC2's life where "feature article about the best North American SC2 player" would have probably ended up being about someone like IdrA, who frankly embodies a lot of the negative stereotypes non-gamers have about gamers. Scarlett might be a little shy, but as a representative of what the SC2 community is all about she's a good subject because she's not only skilled and has an interesting story, she handles herself with maturity and a positive attitude. A lot of people who don't normally follow gaming in any way are going to read this story, and I think it could actually dispell some negative preconceptions they might have about esports and gaming in general
Much as Scarlett's prior hate on Protoss makes me sad as someone whose first race was Protoss I fully agree with this sentiment. Scarlett comes across as a nice person and whilst she doesn't seem to let anyone push her around she also doesn't seem to go out of her way to cause issues with people.
Idra was a character and could be pretty amusing but looking at it from an outsider's perspective I can see why people wouldn't take to him. Or Stephano is another great example; I'm sure he's a nice guy personally but he was CONSTANTLY getting himself into trouble.
It's amazing to see what a rigorous journalist makes of the game -- how he connects individual personalities, attitudes, controversies, stakes, and more. Congrats to Scarlett and the Starcraft community as a whole.
Great article, well written and full of relevant details. I feel that I know Scarlett a tiny bit better now. Will be rooting for her next tournament. GG
funny story. i am a partner at a law firm, and my partner just walked into my office and said "dont you play and watch a video game? whats it called? starcraft." I said "yes" and he said The New Yorker just wrote an article about it, you should read it.
he then told me i need to get better at the game so that i can make big money like MC.
On December 04 2014 06:18 dAPhREAk wrote: funny story. i am a partner at a law firm, and my partner just walked into my office and said "dont you play and watch a video game? whats it called? starcraft." I said "yes" and he said The New Yorker just wrote an article about it, you should read it.
he then told me i need to get better at the game so that i can make big money like MC.