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Hello,
on the top of my comment I want to highlight, that English is not my first language. I will try very hard to make this topic suitable for reading.
As we all know, Blizzard stay in touch with StarCraft 2 fanbase. There are lot of topics with balance suggestions (I know, I know it's not another imba grumble), where players can find response directly from Blizzard. They (Blizzard) want our feedback, so they can make game better, the examples could be "Call to action" or "Balance testing" topics on Battlenet.
What is strange for me is almost zero response to request about new units in both HOTS and "soon" (not intended) LOTV. I'm aware of people who complain "Why StarCraft 2 have no StarCraft BroodWar units" - it's hard to discuss with them. But over the years I have no seen a single response to any unit suggestion. Yes - we may see Lurker (which is the icon for StarCraft BroodWar just like Carrier). This is one exeption that proves the rule. Is it still game made by enthusiasts for palyers, or we got finished product, which we can modify slightly (balance changes)?
When I saw "new" units for LOTV, I had an impression that Blizzard have no idea how to create them. Disruptor looks like child of Mothership Core and Sentry, parents of Herc were Marauder and SCV, while Cyclone is simply Automaton 2000… Ok, they may be not pretty, but even abilities looks bad…
Go to Reddit and you will see ideas of new units since 2011. Not only they look much cooler, there are tons of units, which skills are addressed to what we already have in game. I saw a very good topic, where some guy suggested very nice unit for Zerg. If I'm right he called it Creepling. The idea was - after Hive, you can make upgrade in Spawning Pool. Now your Zergling can morth to Creepling (like Baneling). On creep, Creepling would have something like cloak. This would be another reason to prevent creep spread by Protoss and Terran or spread creep by Zerg. Please don't talk it's imba - it's not about balance but ideas :-)
Well, what are your feelings on this? Does it make any sense to send suggestions to Blizzard? Is there anything we can do to have more impact on this game?
Poll: Would you like to see in LOTV units suggested by players?(Vote): Yes, all new unit created by players/fanbase (Vote): Yes, one unit for each race created by players/fanbase (Vote): No, prefer units created by Blizzard
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I don't care who creates the units as long as they contribute to the game in a positive way.
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that creepling idea sounds really redundant. whats the point having a cloaked thing be cloaked only on creep? creep is precisely where the enemy is already incentivized to bring detection, therefore if they attack onto creep then odds are they brought detection, which nullifies the whole point of the creepling.
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On December 24 2014 19:56 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't care who creates the units as long as they contribute to the game in a positive way. This, so much this. Wanting something to come from the playerbase for the sake of it coming from the playerbase is dumb.
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On December 24 2014 20:17 Roblin wrote: that creepling idea sounds really redundant. whats the point having a cloaked thing be cloaked only on creep? creep is precisely where the enemy is already incentivized to bring detection, therefore if they attack onto creep then odds are they brought detection, which nullifies the whole point of the creepling.
As I wrote before... It's only one of many ideas you can find on Reddit/Battlenet. Don't focus so much only on that one thing. The point is (IMO) to talk about new units, present them, talk about abilities and if there would be some agreement - present to Blizzard on Battlenet topic.
By the way - departing from the main thread. Creepling sounds really good in my perspective. It would create new ZvZ battles, easier drop defending and reason to spread creep even more. Terran and Protoss many times underestimate creep on map (now it gives vision + speed), with creepling you gain cloak unit. Anyway, please, don't focus so much on this poor Creepling :-)
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On December 24 2014 20:24 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2014 19:56 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't care who creates the units as long as they contribute to the game in a positive way. This, so much this. Wanting something to come from the playerbase for the sake of it coming from the playerbase is dumb.
True, thats why I would love to focus on really cool conceptions we can see on e.g. Reddit. Too bad Blizzard ignore even the best units/ideas created by fanbase.
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I dont care anymore about their buff or nerf "logic", especially in diablo3 they killed so many (high) potential content with that highly terrible logic.
A fictional Example in sc2: Community want a buff for Stalker. There are many suggestions from community. Blizzard tell us one that no one have suggested. They are really reading all suggestions to find a "suggestion" that nobody had mentioned.
More obvious in Diablo3.
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The only really bad thing on game design of SC2 is the hard counter mechanic. Without it, we could have more small fights instead of one big fight and then it's all over.
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Un-Hardcounter the units then. aka Remove the immortal (or ban from pro use)
Immortal counters Bunkers,Tank,Thor,Marauder,Roach,Ultralisk,Stalker so easily that it is like a plush pillow for protoss to fall back on if they fuck up. Just chrono 2-3 of them. To Make up 20 stalkers at ease. And with one unit suddenly everything mech is borderline suicide for terran, even if protoss still has the twilight and air-tech to do a switch-a-roo and killl mech anyway. Not to mention warpin/DT/Blink or drop or even air harassment.
With almost all other units it is a Numbers/Micro/Upgrade/Synergy battle, but immortals just hammer down everything "armored" not flying. Thors are great against mutas, but with good spread 6 mutas kill the thor. Thats interesting, not watching 5 immortals YOLO it into a siege line and win.
Also the Tempest is just such a cheaply designed unit. Meh, we dont wanna broodlords no more in PvZ, make unit that ABSOLUTELY kills it. The Tempest even was introduced as AA-AoE unit to fight mutas, and then instead, phoenix range was introdiuced, and Tempest just got 22 range an single target dmg.
Overhaul Protoss !
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On December 24 2014 20:55 TurboMaN wrote: The only really bad thing on game design of SC2 is the hard counter mechanic. Without it, we could have more small fights instead of one big fight and then it's all over. 3 base economy cap mapmakers have extremely limited freedom to make balanced maps. many units have too strong interactions the player who is behind doesnt have any (or very little/limited) chance to gain advantages (or making the disadvantage smaller) except you are 200/200 or opponent do stupid things. etc
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How can you make a thread like this about units, and not list any examples of the player ones from reddit...
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Yes, although it generally takes years to come around. Their last update was them literally asking for ideas so they're definitely listening. At the end of the day they're making resolute decisions in a super complex system so nobody is going to be happy, kinda like politics. They also don't want to reinvent the wheel so they're afraid to revive what was arbitrarily cut (popularity considerations rather than design considerations). The right answer is being creative enough to make such a unique unit with amazing mechanics in this saturated environment, or merely improve upon the ideas laid down by giants rather than reject them.
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On December 24 2014 20:17 Roblin wrote: that creepling idea sounds really redundant. whats the point having a cloaked thing be cloaked only on creep? creep is precisely where the enemy is already incentivized to bring detection, therefore if they attack onto creep then odds are they brought detection, which nullifies the whole point of the creepling. Nydus worms make creep. Also overlord drops with creep generation might work there. I dunno.
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On December 25 2014 00:06 SatedSC2 wrote: Why should they figure it out for themselves? Because ultimately the community is ~98% made up of people who can't even get into Masters league, so it wouldn't be the best idea for Blizzard to listen to everything they hear and that's a hard balance to get right.
That's assuming every player in Bronze league is also in "the community". I'd be willing to bet that the majority of active community members are Gold-Masters and even the Gold members probably watch enough to come up with reasoned arguments on why some things are and aren't viable. That being said, I'd be way more willing to take balance advice from a Gold league player that wants to watch a balanced game than a competitive level player that will exaggerate to get a leg up on other races.
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I think that blizzard simply don't have enough people working on starcraft. It seems to me that heroes of the storm/hearthstone/world of warcraft take up the majority of their staff. They're not willing to assign staff to a project that isn't making much money, even if they could drastically improve its profitability by doing so, because their other games already have much more potential than sc2.
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On December 25 2014 00:06 SatedSC2 wrote: Because ultimately the community is ~98% made up of people who can't even get into Masters league
You realize this is by design right =P
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On December 25 2014 02:11 Defenestrator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2014 00:06 SatedSC2 wrote: Because ultimately the community is ~98% made up of people who can't even get into Masters league You realize this is by design right =P
No, 98% of people are just too lazy and/or dumb.
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The problem with the community designing a units is that the system is too complex for your average joe to think of unit, AND think of all the scenarios that it would suck or be over powered.
Roblin easily thought of one scenario why the creepling would be redundant.
Don't get me wrong, Blizzard isn't perfect and created some really horrible units. Some of them stayed, others were trashed, but at least Blizzard has the manpower to test and tweak each unit until they are at least balanced.
Any suggestion from the fans is probably thought up with half ass effort. They probably have a weakness in their current game, and suddenly realized "Oh if there was a unit that did this, my game wouldn't be so weak". But maybe they don't think more critical. Perhaps Blizzard designed it so a specific race had a weakness and it was up to your skills to reduce any weakness.
Nearly all of the units/suggestions from players will be crappy.
Now designing the look of units is different. I think a lot of creative people out there could make some units look way better.
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