Hey TL forums. I'm sure this topic has floated around, probably at least once a year, in some form or another. A variety of searches turned nothing up, though, so here I am.
Half of me wants to withhold the information that I'm female before really laying out my question. The other half knows I'll get a better answer otherwise. So I'm asking you all to be honest.
Do you believe that girls can be on-par with male SC players?
I play Starcraft enthusiastically (since BroodWars) yet find myself racking up so many losses it becomes extremely discouraging. I have a lot of personal passion for improving my SC gameplay, I have a STRONG desire to improve, to the point I've even had a coach and a handful of master-league friends supervise my progress. And yet... what progress? After months of dedicated practice, I was still in Bronze. Loss followed loss.
I have zero problems trumping the AI, though I assume that's not difficult -- but facing against players? I find myself making a different set of mistakes every time.
I run into the same problem with chess. It's become very frustrating that I can't seem to keep up with my male friends who share interests.
They all say "it's just practice", but I really have been making an effort. I practice, I watch videos, I study strategy guides, I review my own replays...
No, you just seem to have found yourself with an extremely challenging hobby, with the possibility that, despite your passion, you are not terribly apt to perform. A related, but separate possibility is that you're unknowingly suffering from severe performance anxiety when facing human players, and this is affecting your ability to play clean and well-executed games.
There are plenty of girls that are quite good. There is no reason they can't compete on the same level as males, it's just that there is WAY less of them so the potential for one of the few to rise to pro level is slim. Let's say there's a .01% chance of a person becoming a pro. If 1 million males play, 100 of them would become pro. But if only 10000 females play 1 goes pro.
Anyways as far as your personal skill level, have you ever tried getting someone to coach you seriously (Someone like iNcontroL or Destiny)? A lot of the time I feel like it's a bit of a mental block that people have that is keeping them from moving past a certain point. I remember the first time Zerg "clicked" for me back in broodwar and there was a huge jump in my skill level once I wrapped my head around the idea of what the Zerg race was...
On December 28 2014 15:25 Pontius Pirate wrote: No, you just seem to have found yourself with an extremely challenging hobby, with the possibility that, despite your passion, you are not terribly apt to perform. A related, but separate possibility is that you're unknowingly suffering from severe performance anxiety when facing human players, and this is affecting your ability to play clean and well-executed games.
This basically sums up any answer you need. I'm curious why people get so anxious though. I also wonder if the same people who get anxious are the same about public speech at such
Unlike traditional sports, there doesn't seem to be any tangible disadvantage to being female when it comes to playing video games. Anyone who puts in enough effort can become a pro, regardless of gender.
This basically sums up any answer you need. I'm curious why people get so anxious though. I also wonder if the same people who get anxious are the same about public speech at such
Funny thing, I enjoy public speaking. I get a bit nervous like anyone else, but it's not debilitating, nor do I have social anxiety.
On December 28 2014 15:17 nerg wrote: Do girls really suck at Starcraft...?
Hell no. There aren't any really good girl progamers because there aren't that much girls playing SC2 in the first place. Then there's the fact that girls are less likely to get obsessed with the game and play 10 hours a day.
I have a lot of personal passion for improving my SC gameplay, I have a STRONG desire to improve, to the point I've even had a coach and a handful of master-league friends supervise my progress. And yet... what progress? After months of dedicated practice, I was still in Bronze. Loss followed loss.
Well to be honest, your coaches were terrible. As all you have to do is mechanically learn a build order and you will not be bronze guaranteed. Properly executing a build order such as hitting timings, proper economy etc,Even if not perfect should put you at minimum diamond.
And when people say "practice", Practice is a very confusing thing to most people. And have very many misconceptions of what it is. Laddering is not practice. That is practicing what you know to put it to use. Which is different from the art of actual practicing to improve to learn that information so you know it. So then it can then be used.
Basically at bronze, at it's core is everything you do is poorly executed and unrefined. If your truly practicing, the basics such as a basic build order should be a focal point at the basic entry level to play. And I mean down to the second, Also scouting and learning the branches to a build order so it can be used effectively no matter what you face.
I practice, I watch videos, I study strategy guides, I review my own replays...
And what are you watching? and what are you doing while watching a video? Me, personally I'm taking notes on everything, unit positioning, build order, what they scouted and how their reaction is. you name it, I wrote it down.
Strategy guides are flawed to a point, many become old to where they are useless. Everything you need really upon learning to study vods/replays of pro's is already available.
Edit: forgot to answer your overall question, and yes I do believe female players could be. But most do not practice properly and there are to few entering the scene to find those with the latent ability and practice ethic to actually enter the proscene.
Girls may have less interest in general in SC2 or videogames, thus there's less of them going pro and committing fully to it. But there's no scientific studies that says "Girl can't multitask, can't prioritize and strategize on the fly, can't reach high APM..." Same problem with girls in science, they're not worse, just less numerous. Whether that lack of interest is a social thing or rooted way deeper biologically I couldn't say (e.g. less testosterone may equal less competitiveness).
Nerg first way to improve is recognize that you suck, then why you suck, only then you can't fix the problems and improve. Trying to find excuses, more so if they diminish about 50% of the population, isn't the way to go.
Using arbitrary measurements such as league, win percentage etc is very pointless at best. Judge progress by your mouse precision, ability to remember fundamental economic management, ability to process information making strategical or tactical decisions (maybe even under pressure or when you're in crisis mode), etc
Also, Im guessing your coaches were horrible and what little they knew they werent good at explaining.
Edit: hahahaha my autocorrect changed crisis to friskis wtf
On December 28 2014 15:25 Pontius Pirate wrote: No, you just seem to have found yourself with an extremely challenging hobby, with the possibility that, despite your passion, you are not terribly apt to perform. A related, but separate possibility is that you're unknowingly suffering from severe performance anxiety when facing human players, and this is affecting your ability to play clean and well-executed games.
This. I too don't believe that being a girl limits you in anyway at sc skill. Though I do believe that some people (regardless of gender) are better suited towards starcraft compared to others simply because they find it easier to understand and make good decisions in the game.
Generally, laddering for lower level players is often difficult because of the lack of mechanics. And while you may be able to execute a build super well against an AI (basically AIs play a very predictable and straight forward style) because of familiarity, when things go weird in ladder game (cannon rush, strange cheese, opponent makes difficult/strange composition, etc), lower level players don't understand how to use their limited mechanics most effectively and often panic/mess up their build and don't know how to transition back "into it".
Example: when people say to 'practice a build and execute it well and it'll take you out of bronze', they're emphasizing the importance of using one's limited mechanics (apm/actions/thoughts) on having crisp macro and good timings. This is good "general" advice, but often in starcraft, players are faced with situations that required "switching" your focus. Knowing when to switch your focus whether its macro, scouting, micro, army movement etc is a key factor in sc.
On December 28 2014 15:56 varsovie wrote: SCARLETT SCARLETT SCARLETT !!!
Girls may have less interest in general in SC2 or videogames, thus there's less of them going pro and committing fully to it. But there's no scientific studies that says "Girl can't multitask, can't prioritize and strategize on the fly, can't reach high APM..." Same problem with girls in science, they're not worse, just less numerous. Whether that lack of interest is a social thing or rooted way deeper biologically I couldn't say (e.g. less testosterone may equal less competitiveness).
Nerg first way to improve is recognize that you suck, then why you suck, only then you can't fix the problems and improve. Trying to find excuses, more so if they diminish about 50% of the population, isn't the way to go.
Scarlett is not a proper example, I dont know a lot of female progamer in sc2 but there is probably some of them who are better than 95%+ of this forum.
As no physical strength is required in starcraft, I guess girls could do as good as male, thats my opinion.
I don't think there are any scientific or cultural elements that would prove that girls suck at Starcraft, so short answer to your question is no. I'm pretty sure the (low) percentage of female players in the SC2 playerbase is the same at all levels of play, be it Bronze or GM.
So my wife saw how much time and enjoyment I get from watching and playing SC2, joined me in watching a few Day9 Dailies, and eventually her interest peaked enough for her to give it a try. I play zerg almost exclusively, but because protoss models were "prettier"; we played games vs AI where her goal was to build just workers and buildings. Then workers and zealots. Then add stalkers. 3years later, we play 2v2 and consistently rank in gold together and I am proud to say she saves my butt and the game many many times!
Point is: SC2 is indeed very challenging. I do NOT believe gender offers any particular advantages or disadvantages, but I DO think the best way to improve is to have FUN! I feel badly for people who play so hard and focus so much on getting "better" (ie winning a bunch) that they lose sight of the game as a GAME. It's a joy matching wits and skills against others through this medium, and every instance is fodder for learning. So for anyone trying to improve...kudos and GLHF for practicing and working hard! But most of all, I hope that we can all learn together and get better together by having FUN :D