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Hello everyone! yes am new :3
I was having this idea on my mind for like 1week now so i will finally ask is any of you guys (silver/bronze) interested to play in a tournament with a prize pool ? i was considering to organize one unfortunally i dont have alot of friends ;/ if there is any hype for it just send me a pm or answer here Have a great day.!
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Hello!
LAGTV has organized bronze/silver tournaments as well! Feel free to YouTube them for some ideas.
Also, I feel your pain because I don't have any friends who are into SC2 as I am...
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Can check in to that thanks
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On January 29 2015 03:20 hansonslee wrote: LAGTV has organized bronze/silver tournaments as well! Feel free to YouTube them for some ideas.
Aren't those usually cheese only?
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y just checked it out was cheesy x)
@edit Well i hope some of you guys from here would sign up was thinking about a 16bracket or something with maybe casting the whole thing would be quite cool, any of you guys got any tips on the prize pool ?
@edit2 guys do you possibly know anysite like teamliquid where i could ask players to join my tournament ?
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This has always perplexed me to no end. How can one have a tournament that restricts the higher leagues from playing? Isn't that going against the whole concept of a tournament (being the best player)? Being the best player in silver league doesn't mean anything if there is another guy in gold league who would beat all of them. And being the best gold league player means nothing because there's a guy in platinum who is better. And so on. I might as well drop myself down into silver league so I can participate in a lower-league tournament and wreck them all. Get me some easy money.
I can understand having a tournament format for "fun" because most people who are below masters do not have any idea what playing in a tournament is like... But a prize pool is pretty silly. Why reward the worse players?
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I think scvrush regularly organises tournaments for bronze, silver and gold players. It might be worthwile to check them out.
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On January 29 2015 03:55 Blargh wrote: This has always perplexed me to no end. How can one have a tournament that restricts the higher leagues from playing? Isn't that going against the whole concept of a tournament (being the best player)? Being the best player in silver league doesn't mean anything if there is another guy in gold league who would beat all of them. And being the best gold league player means nothing because there's a guy in platinum who is better. And so on. I might as well drop myself down into silver league so I can participate in a lower-league tournament and wreck them all. Get me some easy money.
I can understand having a tournament format for "fun" because most people who are below masters do not have any idea what playing in a tournament is like... But a prize pool is pretty silly. Why reward the worse players? While I disagree with you about tournaments for bronze and silver league only, I do agree that it would be pretty easy for any master player to use a smurf account and get some easy money.
The biggest problem with having low league tournaments is trying to prevent ringers from taking prize money intended for less skilled players.
To the op, having prize money is great, but its something difficult to manage.
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This has always perplexed me to no end. How can one have a baseball tournament that restricts the higher leagues from playing? Isn't that going against the whole concept of a tournament (being the best player)? Being the best player in tball league doesn't mean anything if there is another guy in minor league who would beat all of them. And being the best minor league player means nothing because there's a guy in major who is better. And so on. I might as well drop myself down into kids teeball league so I can participate in a lower-league tournament and wreck them all. Get me some easy money.
I can understand having a tournament format for "fun" because most people who are below major league baseball do not have any idea what playing in a tournament is like... But a prize pool is pretty silly. Why reward the worse players?
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On January 29 2015 04:37 MrMatt wrote: This has always perplexed me to no end. How can one have a baseball tournament that restricts the higher leagues from playing? Isn't that going against the whole concept of a tournament (being the best player)? Being the best player in tball league doesn't mean anything if there is another guy in minor league who would beat all of them. And being the best minor league player means nothing because there's a guy in major who is better. And so on. I might as well drop myself down into kids teeball league so I can participate in a lower-league tournament and wreck them all. Get me some easy money.
I can understand having a tournament format for "fun" because most people who are below major league baseball do not have any idea what playing in a tournament is like... But a prize pool is pretty silly. Why reward the worse players? Quality post. But you do realize why minor league teams exist right? And why kids Tee-ball exist? Those aren't the same as just hosting a prize pool based lower-league tournament. In fact, the ladder already functions quite sufficiently for creating a skill pyramid.
The point of those minor league teams isn't to give the B-tier players a chance at being a real "winner". They are there solely because they will make money because locals enjoy seeing their local team play. There is a fanbase involved, and there is a large enough profit from that fanbase that it makes the system worthwhile.
And kid's tee-ball? That's just a shitty analogy. These kids are not playing for money. They are PAYING to play, in fact. Which is why I said, "I can understand having a tournament format for fun...." Additionally, kids' tee-ball functions as an introduction to the sport, allowing the kid to work his way up if he so desires. They are also matched against other people their age, creating another "filter" to give your victory some meaning.
Silver and bronze league are introductory leagues, but they are already filtered by the fact that the players are in silver and bronze league. The only thing dividing those players from a gold/plat/diam player is skill. If you want to set up a tournament with your friends, you might be doing it because it's fun and to see who the best is between your friends. There's nothing wrong with that, and if the players supply the pool, then it's fine. It'd be sort of like playing poker with friends.
When you have a tournament, the point is to find out who the "best" player is within certain parameters. So, GSL is asking "Who is the best player in the world?" WCS EU (was) asking "Who is the best player in Europe?". College leagues are asking "Which university is the best in the world at X?" Asking "Who is the best player in silver/bronze league?" does not actually make sense, you see. Because they have already been filtered by their skill.
If people want to setup a Ro32 for lower-leagues so they can play in a tournament format, that's cool, but giving them money for winning is just a joke.
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I can just see smurfs coming into the tournament and slaying of all of you and taking the money, bad idea.
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On January 29 2015 03:55 Blargh wrote: This has always perplexed me to no end. How can one have a tournament that restricts the higher leagues from playing? Isn't that going against the whole concept of a tournament (being the best player)? Being the best player in silver league doesn't mean anything if there is another guy in gold league who would beat all of them. And being the best gold league player means nothing because there's a guy in platinum who is better. And so on. I might as well drop myself down into silver league so I can participate in a lower-league tournament and wreck them all. Get me some easy money.
I can understand having a tournament format for "fun" because most people who are below masters do not have any idea what playing in a tournament is like... But a prize pool is pretty silly. Why reward the worse players?
Yes the concept of a tournament is to figure out the best player in a given group. In this instance the group is bronze and silver. Are you going to write a strongly worded letter to the PGA to tell them to stop the senior tour because these old farts aren't as good as the younger people and shouldn't be awarded any prize money?
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duh...im in bronze this season for some reason...soooooo i hope you guys like macro games
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On January 29 2015 05:53 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 03:55 Blargh wrote: This has always perplexed me to no end. How can one have a tournament that restricts the higher leagues from playing? Isn't that going against the whole concept of a tournament (being the best player)? Being the best player in silver league doesn't mean anything if there is another guy in gold league who would beat all of them. And being the best gold league player means nothing because there's a guy in platinum who is better. And so on. I might as well drop myself down into silver league so I can participate in a lower-league tournament and wreck them all. Get me some easy money.
I can understand having a tournament format for "fun" because most people who are below masters do not have any idea what playing in a tournament is like... But a prize pool is pretty silly. Why reward the worse players? Yes the concept of a tournament is to figure out the best player in a given group. In this instance the group is bronze and silver. Are you going to write a strongly worded letter to the PGA to tell them to stop the senior tour because these old farts aren't as good as the younger people and shouldn't be awarded any prize money? But... Bronze and Silver are completely related to who is better... I just said how that didn't make sense in my above post. You don't try and find who is better when it's already been sorted that way. Like, silver is better than bronze, as proven from the ladder. It has no meaning to find the best player in bronze league, because he's likely to just get promoted to silver.
And the senior tour, like college sports, finds the best players in a certain age group. Note the independent sorting criteria, there. It actually means something to be the best player over 60 years old. Though, I personally find it a bit silly, I can understand the reasoning behind it. But it really is pointless having a competitive tournament based on leagues.
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allright so i do manage to realize that most of the peps dont like the idea, well that's your perspective i wanted to organize it mostly for funsies, and the prize pool well it's my own money right ? if i want to give away money to the "slighty less better players" then so i shall since well it's my cash. i dont really take competetive that serious tbh and i mostly wanted to host a tournament like this cause of my 2 low skill level guys i though it would be a cool idea i guess not after all either way have a great night!
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Now now, don't feel discouraged. It's mostly just me being an ass. You should still do whatever you think would be fun. Or, you can try and do something with the current lower-league tournaments that go on. I'm sure there's something like that available.
Best wishes!
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On January 29 2015 06:56 TheJokah wrote: allright so i do manage to realize that most of the peps dont like the idea, well that's your perspective i wanted to organize it mostly for funsies, and the prize pool well it's my own money right ? if i want to give away money to the "slighty less better players" then so i shall since well it's my cash. i dont really take competetive that serious tbh and i mostly wanted to host a tournament like this cause of my 2 low skill level guys i though it would be a cool idea i guess not after all either way have a great night! I don't think 'most' of us don't like the idea. I like it, but I would be weary of ringers trying to take some easy money. If you don't mind giving your money to a master player disguised as a noob, then by all means organize this tournament.
I will watch for lulz.
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If your tournament is for fun, don't have a prize pool.
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On January 29 2015 05:04 GGuMake wrote: I can just see smurfs coming into the tournament and slaying of all of you and taking the money, bad idea. Sadly, it's this.
When I was a lower league player back in the days, I also participated in some german bronze/silver (gold/plat later) tournaments. And each and every one of them was won by a smurf. Sometimes, it wasn't too obvious, because the smurfs tried to emulate bad play by executing dumb cheeses. But mostly lots of diamond or even master league players simply overran their poor opponents effortlessly.
You just can't prevent smurfs from entering those tournaments. Lots of players have 2nd accounts, which they don't use too often, so it's easy for them to "fake" their league. Some idiots even lose tons of games on purpose to enter a noob tournament. (The more clever ones of them hide this by winning some games in between the loss streaks to look less suspicious.)
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Hi TheJokah,
Before you get into the "prize pool" aspect of tournaments, I recommend running some bronze silver gold tournaments through Challonge and streaming it on your Twitch. Make a thread on TL in the tourney section. You should have no problem getting enough players, I think.
Personally, I would love it if more people organized tourneys for the lower league players like myself.
An alternative that I used, instead of cash Prize Pool, is Sponsor Prizes. I ran 2 month long tournaments that let ALL leagues play! We used the handicap system (for better or worse) to let everyone play. Unfortunately, I am now a family man, and had to take a break from streaming and organizing.
Here are the links to the tourneys I did: (Might give you some ideas)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/424949-eq-cup-free-month-long-open-league-500-prizes
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-tournaments/436354-eq-cup-dec-league-all-levels-500
Feel free to PM me if you want any help.
Also, if you just want to play in bsg tourneys, SCVRush is running weekly tourneys. But, would be great to have some new blood.
:D
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On January 29 2015 08:36 virpi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 05:04 GGuMake wrote: I can just see smurfs coming into the tournament and slaying of all of you and taking the money, bad idea. Sadly, it's this. When I was a lower league player back in the days, I also participated in some german bronze/silver (gold/plat later) tournaments. And each and every one of them was won by a smurf. Sometimes, it wasn't too obvious, because the smurfs tried to emulate bad play by executing dumb cheeses. But mostly lots of diamond or even master league players simply overran their poor opponents effortlessly. You just can't prevent smurfs from entering those tournaments. Lots of players have 2nd accounts, which they don't use too often, so it's easy for them to "fake" their league. Some idiots even lose tons of games on purpose to enter a noob tournament. (The more clever ones of them hide this by winning some games in between the loss streaks to look less suspicious.)
Unfortunately you are correct, and there really isn't anything that can be done about it. Skill level isn't something that can be verified before the tournament. I used to participate in gold/plat level tournaments years ago but it became pointless when it was clear there was no chance of winning.
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Why not do it in a points system? You can rack up points for the "main event", where prize will be included. That way you can keep track of those accounts and detect any smurfs. By making this event ongoing, it might discourage smurfs, which need to have a long history of bronze/silver league matches. In other words, it's enforcing commitment.
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On January 29 2015 05:04 GGuMake wrote: I can just see smurfs coming into the tournament and slaying of all of you and taking the money, bad idea.
This. Sorry to say but I agree here with this sentiment.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36682 Posts
On January 29 2015 13:56 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 05:04 GGuMake wrote: I can just see smurfs coming into the tournament and slaying of all of you and taking the money, bad idea. This. Sorry to say but I agree here with this sentiment. True. This has always been the biggest issue with lower league tournaments :/
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Initiate league is the GSL for Bronze/Silver.Smurfs are hunted down and kicked out before they become a problem. There is an entry fee, but if you make it out of the Ro16 (which is where the Initiate division starts) then you get it back,which you can then use to enter next season.
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On January 29 2015 14:27 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 13:56 GGzerG wrote:On January 29 2015 05:04 GGuMake wrote: I can just see smurfs coming into the tournament and slaying of all of you and taking the money, bad idea. This. Sorry to say but I agree here with this sentiment. True. This has always been the biggest issue with lower league tournaments :/ Yes. So I like the idea of lower league people playing with each other, and yes it is your money. But bear in mind that there is a very real risk that it can turn into a few master players beating the crap out of lower league players to run away with the $$$, which isn't as fun for anyone, except maybe for the guy that takes the money...
So to do this, you can either skip the price pool (or a very small one), and you are less likely to get smurfs.
Or you can put some effort into filtering out the smurfs. I guess you can get some inspiration form other low-level tournaments for smurf-filtering. I guess requiring accounts with a minimum number of games over a minimum number of seasons, and never above a certain league is a good start? Ofc, as it will be online, you cannot control who plays the account... Not sure how other tournaments control for that, even if they do manage to identify "true" bronze accounts. I doubt they check hotkey profiles of the players, and they probably won't have "true" replays form the bronze players anyway. Maybe you can ask people to submit ladder replays from before the tournament was announced (so probably "true" replays) at registration. Then you check the winner that the submitted replays match with their match history in temrs of time and players (so from the correct account), and that the hotkey profiles match with the games in the tournament (so correct player), but I'm sure there are ways around that as well... Also, not sure if bronze players have hotkey profiles to start with.
Anyway, good luck!
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Ok im getting fed up reading all the negative aggy comments about have it for fun, don't do a prize pool. Surely you could just make stricter tighter rules about previous seasons match history even maybe uploading a couple of replays of your play so you can see the real skill level and its not Just some smurf.
Just because you're not the best player at a game doesn't mean you shouldn't get the right opportunity to do the same thing. I know most of this is coming from those whiny ass diamond/master players that have never won noting and are bitter and twisted about it, so maybe it is a good idea to get noobs involved.
Get off the hate wagon and start supporting.
Id be happy to help arrange something like his so PM me!!
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On January 29 2015 17:05 JonSki wrote: Ok im getting fed up reading all the negative aggy comments about have it for fun, don't do a prize pool. Surely you could just make stricter tighter rules about previous seasons match history even maybe uploading a couple of replays of your play so you can see the real skill level and its not Just some smurf.
Just because you're not the best player at a game doesn't mean you shouldn't get the right opportunity to do the same thing. I know most of this is coming from those whiny ass diamond/master players that have never won noting and are bitter and twisted about it, so maybe it is a good idea to get noobs involved.
Get off the hate wagon and start supporting.
Id be happy to help arrange something like his so PM me!! "Negative aggy", "whiny ass", "hate wagon"....
Really? And what is a Negative Aggy anyway? :o
I just reread all the posts, and the only two posters that can be seen as negative are Blargh and possibly the one-line from GGuMake. Even then, Blargh still encourages the OP to do the tournament, even though he doesn't see the point himself. The majority of the other posters seem to be positive of the initiative, or neutral at worst. Several bring useful feedback, such as advice, or pointing to other tournaments that do similar things. Many of the posters do point to smurfing as a big issue with this idea, but no one seems to be happy it (note the ":/", "unfortunately" etc), and some offers advice on how to avoid it.
So well... That's how I read the thread. Have a re-read yourself and maybe you will change your standpoint. GL with the tournament anyway.
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i mean i was thinking about smurfs aswell well in some cases there is a way to find the smurfing guys but now always, i am not quite sure how we are going to manage that but maybe we will i do not feel discouraged i will still organize so dont worry i just have to find a way! en taro tassadar friends
@edit. most likely we can keep some smurf away not all of them though and i dont really want a fee to join since most likely no one would :/
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On January 29 2015 13:45 hansonslee wrote: Why not do it in a points system? You can rack up points for the "main event", where prize will be included. That way you can keep track of those accounts and detect any smurfs. By making this event ongoing, it might discourage smurfs, which need to have a long history of bronze/silver league matches. In other words, it's enforcing commitment.
this is a nice idea actually ! thanks will keep it in mind
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sounds like a great idea, id want to marvel at those people who are still stuck in bronze but just cant quite make it out with 200 apm with very optimized builds and timings. 3 bases, 100 drones, those people unlucky man
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@update guys! i might have found a way to get rid of almost every smurf, i am getting somewhere!
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Brilliant, now your tournament turns into a competition of who can pretend to be bronze/silver the best.
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was thinking of allowing some golds aswell (only if they where gold before ofc not higher) but that might be too much not sure yet still alot to do ;D
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Brilliant, now your tournament turns into a competition of who can pretend to be bronze/silver/gold the best.
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On January 29 2015 14:27 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 13:56 GGzerG wrote:On January 29 2015 05:04 GGuMake wrote: I can just see smurfs coming into the tournament and slaying of all of you and taking the money, bad idea. This. Sorry to say but I agree here with this sentiment. True. This has always been the biggest issue with lower league tournaments :/
Meh, whatever. It's easy to spot and as a tournament organizer (I did one of these) you can easily reserve the right to kick someone out you suspect to be smurfing. It's supposed to be about fun and it's not like it's a major event with strict ass rules. So many people just throw ideas like this under the bus for really no reason at all.
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This thread mostly died, I have private messaged you on here so you can add me on skype, I am with ESL and if nothing else I admire your determination in making this happen.
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