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The StarLeague will be rescheduled if necessary to accomodate the players attending both Katowice and NSSL. |
France7248 Posts
On March 06 2015 05:59 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 05:50 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:47 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:44 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:36 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:27 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 06 2015 04:23 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 04:10 The_Red_Viper wrote: I mean their seeds are kinda arbitrary. Why do you get the first seed only cause you won THAT one tournament, etc.
uh, because Katowice is the season final, so it's prerty normal to seed player who won tournaments of this season... Nah you don't understand my point. How do they determine who get's the first seed? The first seed should be the best. There is no first seed, there is a 1-4 where the 4 players got the same "value" Which isn't true since one side got the horror side and one side got the the joke side... what does that even mean? that the two sides of the bracket are not even and that is Red Viper's point. Brackets should be well balanced. lol. herO, Innovation, Life, Zest - You have the top4 players of 2014 in one side of the bracket. it's 2015 now I would add that the bracket is done to know the best IEM player, not the best player in the world. You have the WCS Global Finals for this
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On March 06 2015 06:03 Yhamm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 05:59 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:50 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:47 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:44 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:36 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:27 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 06 2015 04:23 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 04:10 The_Red_Viper wrote: I mean their seeds are kinda arbitrary. Why do you get the first seed only cause you won THAT one tournament, etc.
uh, because Katowice is the season final, so it's prerty normal to seed player who won tournaments of this season... Nah you don't understand my point. How do they determine who get's the first seed? The first seed should be the best. There is no first seed, there is a 1-4 where the 4 players got the same "value" Which isn't true since one side got the horror side and one side got the the joke side... what does that even mean? that the two sides of the bracket are not even and that is Red Viper's point. Brackets should be well balanced. lol. herO, Innovation, Life, Zest - You have the top4 players of 2014 in one side of the bracket. it's 2015 now I would add that the bracket is done to know the best IEM player, not the best player in the world. You have the WCS Global Finals for this
If IEM had at least used their internal rankings... You can't tell me that Flash is rated higher than Life in IEM...
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France7248 Posts
On March 06 2015 06:07 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 06:03 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:59 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:50 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:47 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:44 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:36 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:27 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 06 2015 04:23 Yhamm wrote: [quote] uh, because Katowice is the season final, so it's prerty normal to seed player who won tournaments of this season... Nah you don't understand my point. How do they determine who get's the first seed? The first seed should be the best. There is no first seed, there is a 1-4 where the 4 players got the same "value" Which isn't true since one side got the horror side and one side got the the joke side... what does that even mean? that the two sides of the bracket are not even and that is Red Viper's point. Brackets should be well balanced. lol. herO, Innovation, Life, Zest - You have the top4 players of 2014 in one side of the bracket. it's 2015 now I would add that the bracket is done to know the best IEM player, not the best player in the world. You have the WCS Global Finals for this If IEM had at least used their internal rankings... You can't tell me that Flash is rated higher than Life in IEM... and he's not rated higher in IEM, they have the same seed I have no idea why I'm continuing this pointless discussion
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I mean, if I had to choose IEM's first seeded player, I'd go with CJ herO who has won more IEMs total than anyone else and was runner-up of last year's World Championship. Then it's between TaeJa and Life who both won an IEM and both took 3rd/4th in Toronto, so you'd seed TaeJa higher for doing better than Life in the previous IEM World Championship. Then Life over Flash because Flash only placed high in Toronto. And then you'd proceed in a similar manner for everyone else I guess. And INnoVation gets seeded lower because he cancelled his participation for Taipei, which is why he plays Life. The conspiracy is on <.<
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On March 06 2015 06:10 Yhamm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 06:07 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 06:03 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:59 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:50 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:47 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:44 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:36 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:27 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:25 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] Nah you don't understand my point. How do they determine who get's the first seed? The first seed should be the best. There is no first seed, there is a 1-4 where the 4 players got the same "value" Which isn't true since one side got the horror side and one side got the the joke side... what does that even mean? that the two sides of the bracket are not even and that is Red Viper's point. Brackets should be well balanced. lol. herO, Innovation, Life, Zest - You have the top4 players of 2014 in one side of the bracket. it's 2015 now I would add that the bracket is done to know the best IEM player, not the best player in the world. You have the WCS Global Finals for this If IEM had at least used their internal rankings... You can't tell me that Flash is rated higher than Life in IEM... and he's not rated higher in IEM, they have the same seed I have no idea why I'm continuing this pointless discussion
Two persons can not have the same seed... Seed is singular, it is impossible for one person to have the same seed.
They clearly had to assign #1 to someone and #2 to someone and #3 to someone and #4 to someone. (out of the four winners)
On March 06 2015 06:10 Elentos wrote: I mean, if I had to choose IEM's first seeded player, I'd go with CJ herO who has won more IEMs total than anyone else and was runner-up of last year's World Championship. Then it's between TaeJa and Life who both won an IEM and both took 3rd/4th in Toronto, so you'd seed TaeJa higher for doing better than Life in the previous IEM World Championship. Then Life over Flash because Flash only placed high in Toronto. And then you'd proceed in a similar manner for everyone else I guess. And INnoVation gets seeded lower because he cancelled his participation for Taipei, which is why he plays Life. The conspiracy is on <.<
Exactly. Life and herO should never ever be on the same side of the bracket.
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On March 06 2015 06:17 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 06:10 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 06:07 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 06:03 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:59 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:50 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:47 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:44 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:36 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:27 Yhamm wrote: [quote] There is no first seed, there is a 1-4 where the 4 players got the same "value"
Which isn't true since one side got the horror side and one side got the the joke side... what does that even mean? that the two sides of the bracket are not even and that is Red Viper's point. Brackets should be well balanced. lol. herO, Innovation, Life, Zest - You have the top4 players of 2014 in one side of the bracket. it's 2015 now I would add that the bracket is done to know the best IEM player, not the best player in the world. You have the WCS Global Finals for this If IEM had at least used their internal rankings... You can't tell me that Flash is rated higher than Life in IEM... and he's not rated higher in IEM, they have the same seed I have no idea why I'm continuing this pointless discussion Two persons can not have the same seed... Seed is singular, it is impossible for one person to have the same seed. They clearly had to assign #1 to someone and #2 to someone and #3 to someone and #4 to someone. (out of the four winners) Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 06:10 Elentos wrote: I mean, if I had to choose IEM's first seeded player, I'd go with CJ herO who has won more IEMs total than anyone else and was runner-up of last year's World Championship. Then it's between TaeJa and Life who both won an IEM and both took 3rd/4th in Toronto, so you'd seed TaeJa higher for doing better than Life in the previous IEM World Championship. Then Life over Flash because Flash only placed high in Toronto. And then you'd proceed in a similar manner for everyone else I guess. And INnoVation gets seeded lower because he cancelled his participation for Taipei, which is why he plays Life. The conspiracy is on <.< Exactly. Life and herO should never ever be on the same side of the bracket. They went with 1st and 3rd/2nd and 4th on the same side of the bracket because they didn't want any IEM final rematches to happen before the actual finals. If they went with 1st/4th and 2nd/3rd that'd have been harder. They didn't want TaeJa and Solar, Flash and Zest, herO and Rain or Life and Maru on the same side of the bracket. That'd be a bitch to do.
EDIT: Actually nevermind wouldn't be that difficult. I guess they felt like it?
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On March 06 2015 06:07 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 06:03 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:59 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:50 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:47 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:44 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:36 sharkie wrote:On March 06 2015 05:27 Yhamm wrote:On March 06 2015 05:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 06 2015 04:23 Yhamm wrote: [quote] uh, because Katowice is the season final, so it's prerty normal to seed player who won tournaments of this season... Nah you don't understand my point. How do they determine who get's the first seed? The first seed should be the best. There is no first seed, there is a 1-4 where the 4 players got the same "value" Which isn't true since one side got the horror side and one side got the the joke side... what does that even mean? that the two sides of the bracket are not even and that is Red Viper's point. Brackets should be well balanced. lol. herO, Innovation, Life, Zest - You have the top4 players of 2014 in one side of the bracket. it's 2015 now I would add that the bracket is done to know the best IEM player, not the best player in the world. You have the WCS Global Finals for this If IEM had at least used their internal rankings... You can't tell me that Flash is rated higher than Life in IEM... He did get 1st place over Zest at IEM Toronto
Bracket design appears to be
San Jose 1st | Shenzen 2nd
Toronto 2nd | Tiapei 1st.
Toronto 1st | San Jose 2nd
Tiapei 2nd | Shenzen 1st
Sure some of the previous winners have possibly started slumping since they first qualified, but they're no doubt practicing very hard at the moment. The biggest problem is Life vs Innovation in the first round which mainly due to Innovation forfeiting IEM Tiapei to qualify online as well as a bit of bad luck.
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I guess, but INnoVation being seeded lower than Bbyong, Hydra, Fantasy and Patience still seems off.
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Life and Innovation round one. So crazy.
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Online qualifier locations added:
San Jose 1st EU 3rd | Shenzen 2nd AM
Toronto 2nd EU | Tiapei 1st KR
Toronto 1st AM | San Jose 2nd EU
Tiapei 2nd KR | Shenzen 1st KR 3rd
Yeah, the seeding for those seems a bit random, they probably needed to weight the KR qualifiers a bit more.
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You know what we need to solve this what you call unfair seeding problem???
GROUP SELECTIONS!!
yeah :D group selections ceremony onto playing right away!
I wonder if they have consider this possibility?? Although there would be a lot more matches and the time constraints probably wouldn't allow it...
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On March 06 2015 06:49 hborrgg wrote: Online qualifier locations added:
San Jose 1st EU 3rd | Shenzen 2nd AM
Toronto 2nd EU | Tiapei 1st KR
Toronto 1st AM | San Jose 2nd EU
Tiapei 2nd KR | Shenzen 1st KR 3rd
Yeah, the seeding for those seems a bit random, they probably needed to weight the KR qualifiers a bit more. I agree, I think the Korean qualifiers should be weighted more and give higher seeds, EU and NA should be treated equal. Seeding would be:
1. herO 2. TaeJa 3. Life 4. Flash 5. Maru 6. Rain 7. Zest 8. Solar 9. INnoVation 10. Patience 11. NA/EU player with least map losses (Trap or Hydra) 12. NA/EU player with 2nd least map losses (Hydra or Trap) 13. NA/EU player with 3rd least map losses (Bbyong) 14. NA/EU player with 4th least map losses (Fantasy) 15. KR 3rd place qualifier 16. EU 3rd place qualifier
I arranged 5-8 by the recency of their 2nd place finish at an IEM.
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I think people are reading into the seeding too much. It seems like they literally give the four winners seeds 1-4, and it was random what seed they get. And each player gets put a tier, but it's random what seed they get. I fail to see how this isn't fair and it certainly makes a lot of sense rather an arbitrarily giving rankings based on performance or to "adjust the bracket so it's even".
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On March 06 2015 07:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote: I think people are reading into the seeding too much. It seems like they literally give the four winners seeds 1-4, and it was random what seed they get. And each player gets put a tier, but it's random what seed they get. I fail to see how this isn't fair and it certainly makes a lot of sense rather an arbitrarily giving rankings based on performance or to "adjust the bracket so it's even". Why do you think seeds make no sense? Wouldn't it be nice to have a higher chance of getting the best semis/finals possible? I am not sure about tennis, but i think they do it like that? Would be nice if someone with more tennis experience could explain it.
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On March 06 2015 07:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote: I think people are reading into the seeding too much. It seems like they literally give the four winners seeds 1-4, and it was random what seed they get. And each player gets put a tier, but it's random what seed they get. I fail to see how this isn't fair and it certainly makes a lot of sense rather an arbitrarily giving rankings based on performance or to "adjust the bracket so it's even". If I can find a system to easily seed the 4 winners, so can they. Really, seeding herO and TaeJa 1st and 2nd for their overall IEM success would be obvious and they are the highest seeded players. On the other side, INnoVation is one of the top 5 players in the world right now and Trap is on a roll, and the two of them get seeded lower than Patience, Hydra, Bbyong and Fantasy. This means top 4 seeded players Life and Flash get stronger opponents than seeds 5-8. This isn't inherently unfair, but it's unfortunate because it causes matches like Life vs INnoVation which might as well be the grand finals to take place in round 1.
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United States23454 Posts
I would hope that the seeding was very well thought out and structured considering how big this event is and how it is single elimination.
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The only way in which the order of the first 4 seeds matters is that the top two get to play the people who qualified in first place. The top two seeds have been given to herO and Taeja which, as has been discussed, is probably fair (even if it was random and a coincidence). Overall it seems fine to me.
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On March 06 2015 07:30 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 07:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote: I think people are reading into the seeding too much. It seems like they literally give the four winners seeds 1-4, and it was random what seed they get. And each player gets put a tier, but it's random what seed they get. I fail to see how this isn't fair and it certainly makes a lot of sense rather an arbitrarily giving rankings based on performance or to "adjust the bracket so it's even". If I can find a system to easily seed the 4 winners, so can they. Really, seeding herO and TaeJa 1st and 2nd for their overall IEM success would be obvious and they are the highest seeded players. On the other side, INnoVation is one of the top 5 players in the world right now and Trap is on a roll, and the two of them get seeded lower than Patience, Hydra, Bbyong and Fantasy. This means top 4 seeded players Life and Flash get stronger opponents than seeds 5-8. This isn't inherently unfair, but it's unfortunate because it causes matches like Life vs INnoVation which might as well be the grand finals to take place in round 1. That happens in all competition tho, if you're gonna have a bracket sometimes it might be a little stronger in some places than others. Is it unfortunate? Maybe, but I'd rather have it like this than for them to have some sort of double standard because "they think one player is better" instead of leveling everybody's "chances" so to speak.
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Actually this bracket kinda looks like they just went to aligulac and gave everyone a match-up they'd be comfortable with <_<
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On March 06 2015 07:50 KingofdaHipHop wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 07:30 Elentos wrote:On March 06 2015 07:22 KingofdaHipHop wrote: I think people are reading into the seeding too much. It seems like they literally give the four winners seeds 1-4, and it was random what seed they get. And each player gets put a tier, but it's random what seed they get. I fail to see how this isn't fair and it certainly makes a lot of sense rather an arbitrarily giving rankings based on performance or to "adjust the bracket so it's even". If I can find a system to easily seed the 4 winners, so can they. Really, seeding herO and TaeJa 1st and 2nd for their overall IEM success would be obvious and they are the highest seeded players. On the other side, INnoVation is one of the top 5 players in the world right now and Trap is on a roll, and the two of them get seeded lower than Patience, Hydra, Bbyong and Fantasy. This means top 4 seeded players Life and Flash get stronger opponents than seeds 5-8. This isn't inherently unfair, but it's unfortunate because it causes matches like Life vs INnoVation which might as well be the grand finals to take place in round 1. That happens in all competition tho, if you're gonna have a bracket sometimes it might be a little stronger in some places than others. Is it unfortunate? Maybe, but I'd rather have it like this than for them to have some sort of double standard because "they think one player is better" instead of leveling everybody's "chances" so to speak. It kinda ruins the point of seeding anyone if the 4 lowest seeded players are Cure, Dark, INnoVation and Trap, who are objectively better than several of the players seeded higher (at least right now). They might aswell completely randomise everything at that point and remove the "no previous finalists on the same side of the bracket" constrait IMO.
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