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Hey guys,
I was a top 1000 in the world player in WOL as a Zerg Player and even got to Mid-Masters as random all with mostly macro play and solid mechanics. I played BW as well, who doesn't remember the days of trivia bots, social clans, and incredibly fun custom games.
I am speaking to you today because I was one of those players who never bought HOTS and moved onto other games towards the end of WOL. I am giving blizzard a guide on how to bring back a player like me for LOTV.
The reason's I stopped playing are many but here is a small list of the biggest issues that kept that left me frustrated with the state of the game.
Games that center around deathball play even at the highest level. Who doesn't remember the PvZ moment where the entire 30 minutes were gambled on an archon toilet, or a some sort of positioning error that should have been punished but simply ended the game because your units evaporated to a 200/200 deathball.
-unit pathing behavior, collision radius, ect -balance centered around aoe -overkill/relatively high dps of units mechanics
Battle.net has the social atmosphere of a morgue. Custom game changes and clan support made the problem worse.
-UI issues as well as lack of customization of clan and chat channels, friend and clan discover features, ect
-you can only view popular games rather than finding a fun custom you like. This ruins the very organic process of new custom games becoming popular or being able to discover and old custom and play it with random people.
Game mechanics limited micro due to overkill and dps of death-balls. Making the game less interesting to play and watch.
DPS, Aoe centered balance, New HOTS ground holding units were supposed to break deathballs but actually exacerbated the problem by messing with the strategy of base trading, and led to 2 hours standstills.
The fundamental economy changes from BW to sc2
-http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/482775-a-treatise-on-the-economy-of-scii
-gold bases, mules, and supply relation of works to different workers gave a very uncomfortable feel to the economy of different races.
Lack of moving shot and micro limiting mechanics from unit design, left a very rock paper scissor feel that has destroyed countless RTS's.
-lack of terrain strategy, high ground advantage and miss chance, it's almost a crime for positioning and terrain decisions not be a more fundamental part of the gameplay. There is more depth here but it was never really explored.
-http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/433944-depth-of-micro
-There was an extensive TL post a few years ago about this issue of why broodwar was so fun and successful included vulture mines, dragoon pathing, moving shot, carrier leash radius ect
-Units that are hard countered should be able to turn into soft counters via good micro
Overall balance approach wildly skewed towards creating a statistical 50% win-rate while ignoring the actual entertainment of watching and playing a game.
-Gameplay is what keeps players coming back, investing in E-sports, and grows the playerbase, not statistical balance. Statistical balance should be the second priority of balance.
Catering to low level players had the opposite effect. Low level players look up to pro's and high level players for entertainment value. (top down approach, not bottom up)
-Focus on gameplay first and tweak the numbers for the 50% win-rate once the game has a better feel.
-Make multiple play-styles and unit combos effective and interesting for each race
-cheese, mechanics victory, overwhelming economy,
In addition, all these problems bleed into one another because starcraft is a complex system.
Race Specific Issues
Zerg -Supply changes to hydralisk and roaches cause zerg to lose its swarm feel, and fundamentally made the race less unique and fun to play. Zerg was limited to the same supply cap, but with less cost effective units leading to the awkward way to play via re-maxing, which shouldn't have had as much emphasis as it did in sc2. The deathball effect didn't help with this either.
Protoss -Lack of a effective harasser and warpgate, warpgates, warpgates. Jesus christ make warpgates be a descision not a core part of the race, all strategy games are based on defenders advantage and warpgates distort this to absurdity, PvP in Wol anyone.
Terran -Probably the most well designed race of sc2, but one of the races punished the most by the fundamental game design issues like deathballs and especially economy changes.
Blizzard, if you want players like me and I know many more other than myself, you need to fix or at least put some effort into these issues the community has been frustrated with for years.
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LIstten here m8, These guys either had a decision: Leave BW as it was and let a beautiful thing continue, or try to create something new which had the potential to be one of the biggest games in the world and become a huge cash cow for Blizzard.
They tried really hard, I don't doubt this. And the growth from SC2 release till about 2012 was absolutely phenomenal and set the trends for many other games. Of course it's apparent at this point they have failed miserably and fucked up Starcraft/RTS as we know it, but stop being so hard on the bros. Blizz still needs to feed their families too man........
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I totally understand LOTV doesn't need to be Brood War 2, however, these are fundamental design issues that can be understood by comparing brood war to sc2. I'm not looking for that, but what I am looking towards is better game design that would bring me back to a game I used to enjoy.
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You might be interested in this.
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Nice summary I agree with everything.
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Thanks, there are much better articles than this, but I was hoping blizzard would be able to see, I and others didn't give them money because these issues that have been articulated incredibly well in that article and many others really really matter.
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TL,DR I WILL NOT BUY YOUR DAMN GAME IF YOU KEEP IGNORING THE WELL THOUGHT OUT DESIGN ISSUEs THE COMMUNITY HAS BEEN BITCHING ABOUT FOR YEARS!
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tl;dr Hi Blizzard if you've never read any forums before, read this post for a summary of all the stuff people like to whine about!
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On April 19 2015 03:57 TheDwf wrote:You might be interested in this.
From that article "SC2 bears all the glaring flaws of a “forced child”
Damn these guys get it: how have I not seen this article before! beautifully written <3
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On April 19 2015 04:15 ZAiNs wrote: tl;dr Hi Blizzard if you've never read any forums before, read this post for a summary of all the stuff people like to whine about! Pretty much this! Either Blizzard doesnt want to change anything or doesnt know about what we want. I think its the first.
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Bro why not just come back to BW? Nada's stream had 10k viewers today.
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Good post. Might be time to dust off BW skills because blizzard isn't going for any serious changes in lotv.
I'll read through thedwf's post later.
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On April 19 2015 04:21 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Bro why not just come back to BW? Nada's stream had 10k viewers today.
I have a feeling it's the Lindy Effect ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_Effect )
"For non-perishable things, the time they have already been in existence is roughly the time they have left"
BW will outlast SC2 imo (which is a good thing )
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This makes me wish LotV wasn't standalone, so you'd have to buy HotS.
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Good post but its too late. Blizzard gives a shit.
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I gave probably quadruple the fucks writing this post than blizzard did designing this game. Sadly, I'm willing to bet there isn't even a game design team funded for LOTV cause its an expansion.
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One of the biggest failures of Blizzard is not making arcade free earlier, and they also needed to focus a lot more on it. Some hardcore players here will say that 1vs1 is the focus, but guess your average casual player wants to play.
Edit: I've had an idea for a while to make ladder maps like democratic elections. Blizzard cannot enforce maps. Community chooses over certain maps. Design is up to Blizzard, but this is my idea so Blizzard doesn't force us to play crappy maps.
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I doubt we can expect a big playerbase for StarCraft(by big I mean something like WoW,Hearthstone,Dota,LoL). I believe if BW is released today with new AI it will be as "daed" as SC2. RTS is a niche scene these day. All we can expect is a better game overall for us fans to enjoy. If you absolutely want BW 2.0 then I would recommend playing BW itself because it still has its scene going.:D
And am I the only one who think this kind of thread doesn't really bring anything new? We have similar and bigger threads out there for this topic.
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That's the thing, I don't want brood war 2.0 as I've said repeatedly, I just want blizzard to give a shit about the issues people have been talking about here for ages.
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"Battle.net has the social atmosphere of a morgue." I have to say that it's now my favorite way of describing B.net 0.2. Good job.
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On April 19 2015 03:39 BugRancher wrote: DPS, Aoe centered balance, New HOTS ground holding units were supposed to break deathballs but actually exacerbated the problem by messing with the strategy of base trading, and led to 2 hours standstills.
with Avilo's slowly growing fan base.. i have to wonder if lengthy standstills are considered a bad thing by the average SC2 fan.
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Nothing wrong with lengthy standstills, but the players should be making that situation based upon good play, not because the game mechanics drive you into that situation.
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On April 19 2015 05:27 OtherWorld wrote: "Battle.net has the social atmosphere of a morgue." I have to say that it's now my favorite way of describing B.net 0.2. Good job.
This!
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I like the way the game is, oh well
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Not gonna lie, thought this might have something to do with ByuNs return!
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On April 19 2015 06:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 03:39 BugRancher wrote: DPS, Aoe centered balance, New HOTS ground holding units were supposed to break deathballs but actually exacerbated the problem by messing with the strategy of base trading, and led to 2 hours standstills.
with Avilo's slowly growing fan base.. i have to wonder if lengthy standstills are considered a bad thing by the average SC2 fan.
This. So much this. Those of us who watched BW for years keep complaining about certain design decisions Blizzard has made but it is increasingly clear that SC2's remaining player base considers boring your opponent to death a viable strategy to keep 50% balance. There are still people who defend the recently patched out swarm hosts, for God's sake. Yeah, let's have a shitty stale game as long as it has perfect 50% balance.
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the most imortant thing for me, was the social aspect. As a kid i made dozens of friends in sc1 battle net, i stayed all day chatting in various chat channels, the trivia bots were fucking awesome, what size is the x unit? small medium large, i was the master of that questions. in sc2 it feels like a post apocalypse scenario.
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On April 19 2015 04:47 BugRancher wrote: I gave probably quadruple the fucks writing this post than blizzard did designing this game. Sadly, I'm willing to bet there isn't even a game design team funded for LOTV cause its an expansion.
Right. I'm all for hyperbole but you realize hundreds of game designers probably laboured hundreds of thousands of man hours to just create ONE campaign mission right? Blizzard fans are the most entitled twats, "Worst game ever, designer gave zero fucks, please refund the dozens / hundreds / thousands of hours of entertainment I derived from your product".
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op dropping some hard truths. Perfect balance is fucking overrated. Give me something that is fun to play and entertaining to watch and I'll take that over balance any day. In striving for complete balance that is not achievable anyway, we had to settle for no 4th race, 1-2 new mp units per expansion lol, limited play styles and FIVE years to release the 2nd expansion. No, all the players from 2010-2012 ain't coming back for Lotv. Don't get me started on the piece of shit that is Bnet.
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On April 19 2015 07:37 hai2u wrote: op dropping some hard truths. Perfect balance is fucking overrated. Give me something that is fun to play and entertaining to watch and I'll take that over balance any day. In striving for complete balance that is not achievable anyway
i'm having a lot of fun with SC2...its been a really good 5 years.
However, Red Alert 3 was less balanced and more fun... lots of issues with a poorly polished game.. beached Akula Subs... infantry firing through walls ... but for pure fun .. it was a romp.
the infrastructure around SC2 is superior to any other current RTS game and miles better than RA3. so relative to the current choices of the marketplace .. SC2's BNet is the best there is.
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Love sc2 for what it is, it's an awesome game, just ask all the koreans playing it. And if u dont like it, fine.. Tired of such bs threads like this...
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what a very original OP I have never seen before!
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On April 19 2015 07:37 hai2u wrote: op dropping some hard truths. Perfect balance is fucking overrated. Give me something that is fun to play and entertaining to watch and I'll take that over balance any day. In striving for complete balance that is not achievable anyway, we had to settle for no 4th race, 1-2 new mp units per expansion lol, limited play styles and FIVE years to release the 2nd expansion. No, all the players from 2010-2012 ain't coming back for Lotv. Don't get me started on the piece of shit that is Bnet.
4th races or more and more units won't make the game better. In fact, removing some units like Colossus may be good for the game.
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On April 19 2015 04:22 Deathstar wrote: Good post. Might be time to dust off BW skills because blizzard isn't going for any serious changes in lotv.
I'll read through thedwf's post later. Oh look another whine thread about about lotv not supplying specific bw fans their fix. How original and unprecedented. I agree there are definite issues with SC 2 in general but honestly i feel like the social aspect + not having lan are the only ones that are really that glaringly bad. Blizzard liking a 50/50 balance and it meaning sometimes players get to control the game a little too much with semi stalemate playstyles is also the fault of the player.
There are so many extreme biases within the analogy of people not being able to disperse deathballs themselves. Newsflash armies can work really well together because people know how to micro well, also newsflash people also figure out how to micro 1 - 15 units or whatever blob or small group. If you actually put in interest into watching sc2 HOTS you'd of seen that 3 prong attacks are a standard procedure in every match up in almost 70% of sc2 games across all match ups.
Regarding the stalemates i have to say again, they happen because quality of micro and the pressure to preserve resources is over induced on the player. For example in one way we want to keep going for the standard build order/mechanical way of playing but the other solutions are all ridiculed as "nah you need to know what you are doing".
This is why people who know how to macro/micro well but also know how to adapt their styles do far better in the long run ( course of 2 years yeah long run..) If you look at players puck and compare him to someone like naniwa. Puck plays very forceful with his units milking out the power of his micro in aggressive timings. ( then falters to firecake vs the SH game in wcs season 1 2015) Yet it had to be blizzards fault according to his tweet. Then you look at naniwa and he's always talking and trying out different styles and heavily theorizes what else he can do.
A lot of progamers/ sc 2 players and watchers have this insatiable urge to condemn the game over things they only observed and first hand experienced and exacerbated by only taking the brunt of the situation. We wanted lan since the beginning of SC 2 wol beta and it never happend... do i still care ? Yes i definitely do but you don't see me trying to tarnish the amazing qualities sc2 does have to do so. I don't agree with some balance ideas, i might make a post but that's it. At the end of the day we are all guilty of being entitled brats.
My suggestion is to put your ill tempered cravings to good use and not just go on a hate blizzard tantrum every time you don't get what you want yet. Take into consideration that they don't owe you anything ( see my point about sc2 lan)
I want an improvement to sc 2 social aspect/lan. Boom that's all i got personally to say about it. Other than that sc 2 is going to grow and develop into a more beautiful game each month - years. I'm really tired of all the bitter-ists explaining how the game is dead because it doesn't cater to their selfish needs enough. Why are you useful to us any ways ? If all you guys do is making 500+ comments about how BW had this and that...we know go play it then? Make a project and remade BW urself in a game engine and do it damn well try and get some interest from blizzard in professional ways. Anything other than "I wanna quit, please validate my unique ideas !!!! "
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On April 19 2015 08:16 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 07:37 hai2u wrote: op dropping some hard truths. Perfect balance is fucking overrated. Give me something that is fun to play and entertaining to watch and I'll take that over balance any day. In striving for complete balance that is not achievable anyway, we had to settle for no 4th race, 1-2 new mp units per expansion lol, limited play styles and FIVE years to release the 2nd expansion. No, all the players from 2010-2012 ain't coming back for Lotv. Don't get me started on the piece of shit that is Bnet. 4th races or more and more units won't make the game better. In fact, removing some units like Colossus may be good for the game.
And protoss is going to do what? Instant quit vs terran and zerg?
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Call it whiney, or anything else, these are the things blizzard needs to address to get my business, nothing more to it than that.
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On April 19 2015 10:28 BugRancher wrote: Call it whiney, or anything else, these are the things blizzard needs to address to get my business, nothing more to it than that. Solid two liner comment. Guess they aren't missing out on much if this is all you can think of. You still act overly entitled, you don't go into suggestions just criticism, albeit some valid criticism most of your HOTS/LOTV analogies are wrong.
All you do is summarize what you knew about WOL. Wow blast from the past.
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complete agree on your summary of the races, Terran feels the only well-designed race. Zerg lost so much of its narrative feel by giving the Roach and other units Protoss stats. I think Day9 talked about it a few times, Zerg needs a re-design.
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On April 19 2015 10:36 ArgusDreamer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 10:28 BugRancher wrote: Call it whiney, or anything else, these are the things blizzard needs to address to get my business, nothing more to it than that. Solid two liner comment. Guess they aren't missing out on much if this is all you can think of. You still act overly entitled, you don't go into suggestions just criticism, albeit some valid criticism most of your HOTS/LOTV analogies are wrong. All you do is summarize what you knew about WOL. Wow blast from the past.
thats what I thought when I read op.
the entitlement is strong in this one, even though he has some valid points.
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Games that center around deathball play even at the highest level. Who doesn't remember the PvZ moment where the entire 30 minutes were gambled on an archon toilet, or a some sort of positioning error that should have been punished but simply ended the game because your units evaporated to a 200/200 deathball.
Archon toilet hasn't been in the game for over 3 years so I think that analogy is moot but HotS still can be said to be too reliant on deathball mechanics though there has been huge steps to crush this type of gameplay in LotV and if you've watched any games the "deathball" doesn't really exist in the same fashion anymore.
Battle.net has the social atmosphere of a morgue. Custom game changes and clan support made the problem worse.
Agree 100% and maybe the best metaphor I've ever heard for how dead b.net can feel. B.net needs social features and custom game swapped back to an open list so the community controls the arcade instead of blizzard.
Game mechanics limited micro due to overkill and dps of death-balls. Making the game less interesting to play and watch.
This kind of just covers the same thing as your first question as deathball mechanics can make the game less fun to watch and play in some cases, again LotV has really made steps to increase micro and reduce deathballs
The fundamental economy changes from BW to sc2
All I kind of read here is how you don't like the changes from BW to SC2 and there isn't really any reasoning to why aside from it feeling "uncomfortable". The economy changes needed to happen since BW's economy was based on a terrible AI and SC2 was a new game in a different direction so there was no way it would have the exact same system as BW. Even so it took years before the economy became as stale as it is today (WoL was full of 1/2 base play while we were figuring this game out). LotV has already addressed the economy issue and if it doesn't work out they aren't going to revert it to HotS but find something else that works so I think this point won't be a worry in a few months.
Lack of moving shot and micro limiting mechanics from unit design, left a very rock paper scissor feel that has destroyed countless RTS's.
There is a lack of noticeable micro for some units and more noticeable counters but saying SC2 is rock paper scissors between units is completely wrong as there were counters and hard counters in BW too and imo the most rock, paper, scissors like feeling I've ever gotten from Starcraft was ZvZ in BW (literally 9 pool > 12 hatch > 12 pool > 9 pool) while in SC2 I might get countered I still never feel like I've lost the game off of an unscoutable build order or something uncontrollable.
Overall balance approach wildly skewed towards creating a statistical 50% win-rate while ignoring the actual entertainment of watching and playing a game.
Creating balance should be the first priority as the E-sport aspect would die immediately if there was an elongated period of unbalance (we already get way more than enough balance whining now). If SC2 had noticeable unbalance while it still had amazing game play we would either end up with people quitting because their race is under powered or switching to the best races since guess what, it really isn't fun to lose especially if its obviously easier for your opponent to win compared to you. WoL Beta Terran would be a great example of something that a lot of fun to play but was also unbalanced, winning ~60% of its games, which ruins the game for other races and even Terran became dull when its TvT all day everyday.
Catering to low level players had the opposite effect. Low level players look up to pro's and high level players for entertainment value. (top down approach, not bottom up)
Sorry I honestly don't get how Blizzard has catered to low level players at all in SC2 as all I ever hear is how people are afraid still to start playing because of the notoriety starcraft has for being a game that is extremely unforgiving and caters to hardcore players.
Race Specific Issues
Zerg - It isn't the same type of swarmy playstyle as in BW where you always had more units but the remaxing style does still fit into the Zerg style as its endless units crashing into the opponent until you win. The one thing I'd say between BW and SC2 is that Zerg lost it's aggressiveness as I feel like I sit back as Z in SC2 while in BW I was constantly on the attack
Protoss - Warpgates can cause a problem and they should be changed so they aren't so abusive (which is happening in LotV) but you don't really bring up any points as to why they are a problem aside from issues in WoL and the fact that you obviously hate them.
Terran - I don't understand you point here at all as Terran Mech is one of the scariest deathballs and the issue I see with bio isn't facing deathballs it is more of a lack of late game viability to it or transitioning out of it in the late game. Designing a new unit or fixing others (looking at you ghost) would be great. I don't see how the economy changes punished Terran in anyway (Imo the easiest macro mechanic of the three).
I feel like your post is lacking in a lot of explanation as to why you feel the way you do and you just kind of expect everyone to feel the same way you do and agree while you lack understanding of how the game has changed in HotS and consequently might not understand how the game is going to change in the future as well. You bring up some good points it's just hard to understand or agree with you unless you provide more information.
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Battle.net has the social atmosphere of a morgue. Custom game changes and clan support made the problem worse.
-UI issues as well as lack of customization of clan and chat channels, friend and clan discover features, ect
-you can only view popular games rather than finding a fun custom you like. This ruins the very organic process of new custom games becoming popular or being able to discover and old custom and play it with random people
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^ Honestly this is the biggest issue, everything else is secondary imo
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The social aspect of sc2 is nuts.
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These things have been discussed thousands of times, people here and at Blizzard are well aware of these issues but you have to understand Blizzard isn't gonna change its game from the ground up. Period.
Path finding isn't gonna change, deathballs aren't gonna change, micro isn't gonna change. The only things that could be still modified are Arcade and clan settings, but like I said, it's been discussed plenty of times, what's the point of starting a new thread on this topic?
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I don't think you can bring back the lost playerbase, they have moved on to other games, even games of a different genre. I first bought WOL because my friends played it, none of them play HOTS anymore and I haven't played in ages. Couple of different units, balance, deathballs etc aren't going to change anything. I think it's better to try to please the remaining ones.
edit: if anyone here plays planetside 2, it is struggling with the exact same problem. If you think sc2-developers are bad, trust me, some games have much worse.
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Same boat! I never brought HotS. Too frustrated with all those issues you said and more.
The game is far from perfect yet every patch day the notes had more reasons for not changing anything than changes with the footnote "we're watching closely". Not wanting to mess with pro careers and obtaining a 50% win rate with all races has caused it to become stale. I don't know why at the end of a season on a specific date we can't see some major reworks, why do we have to wait for an expansion?
Death ball, AOE and ForceField were my biggest issues with the game. Now its pretty much the lack of care from Blizzard.
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Blizzard, if you want players like me and I know many more other than myself, you need to fix or at least put some effort into these issues the community has been frustrated with for years.
Blizzard is a company that is looking for profit. They want your money, plain and simple. In fact, the more people that buy their game and then dont play it, the higher the profit gap grows as they ahve less costs in servers.
Broodwar did not have this problems as the game was hosted on the pc of the player who made the game, but SC2 is a far more resource hungry beast.
Id like to add that Unit counters are far too powerful.
Tier 2 units beat tier 1 units too hard.
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for what it's worth, lotv fixed at least half of this stuff
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I remember how much fun I used to have playing WoL. I remember how much I hated HotS. And I know that I do not enjoy LotV. At all. Solution? I started playing WoL again. Yes, in 2016. And I have so much fun again! Surprisingly enough people still play this, so finding a game is not an issue.
But to comment on the topic. I have a feeling (conspiracy theory?) that Blizzard has absolutely no reason to make SC2 a good game at this point. It is not producing any revenue anymore. Since BW and WoL, e-sport has changed. Nowadays f2p games are most popular and creating most money in the industry/e-sport. Blizzard needs to focus on other productions. SC2 became inconvenient. They cannot abandon it completely (it would be bad for the image of the company), but also they do not want to invest into it anymore. Times of RTS games are over. Simply, it probably might be even better for Blizzard if SC2 dies naturally. They could move on completely to other projects. I really hope I am just paranoid whinny asshole about it, but this is my feeling about what is happening with SC2 and e-sports in general.
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Honestly, I don't think Blizzard is interested in trying to regain this "lost playerbase" (read: you) Because you simply want BW back. (I know you have stated that this is not what you want, but your post is chock-full of BW bias, so that really tells another story)
Blizzard is making a new game, not redoing an old one. As someone who never played too much BW, due to the poor pathing and crappy AI, I can safely say that a lot of these "fixes" you have come up with, would ruin the game for me.
Half your points are kind of invalid, due them being fixed in LOTV, such as deathballs, they occur way less, and rarely do we see players turtling until a 200/200 death clash like in the WOL/HOTS era.
And in fact, Blizzard already catered a little more to the BW fans with LOTV, rapid expanding and focus on multi pronged aggression is really what comes to mind. In almost every GSL cast Tastosis will voice this, and I'm pretty sure they now BW and SC2 better than you.
The only point i somewhat agree with is that B.net 2.0 feels dead, however I think it mainly comes from the fact that people aren't as eager for the whole "social experience" as they were back in the B.net 1.0 days.
I mean, just look at other big multiplayer titles. In the MOBA's, people literally send death threats on a daily basis. and in CS:GO 50% of the voice-chat is either flaming or people bashing other people for not speaking their language.
Back in B.net 1.0, people were genuinely still rather amazed that communication, not to mention gaming, were possible in an online manner, so naturally it was used way more constructive. Now people are used to it, and use it as means to be anonymous for worse rather than better, it's hard to cultivate a good "social experience" based on that.
I'm so tired of all the complaining posts, Blizzard is not going to redo the entire SC2 game because there are some nostalgic people who liked BW, but have realized how outdated their old friend feels by todays standard.
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how do you define BW bias in this case Kaeque? the points OP made are super accurate, rather than BW bias it is accurate perception of SC2/WoL flaws thanks to experience of better games. Sure some things have been improved in SC2 since 2010 - some things have also been lost. Anyway, even if we don't expect Blizzard to redo SC2 into the great game we wish it would be, anyone is free to voice their opinion and explain why they - and others - have left, and I find it interesting and useful regardless. I think OP is really on point because everything he wrote are all reasons why I left SC2 really quickly (within the first few months), it's very accurate. With LoTV SC2 still does have a lot of these flaws, some of them diminished, others worsened.. imo it may well be a bit better than WoL overall, but still not something I would come back to play in the long run (or buy).
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The article from thedwf is quite good and I find myself agreeing with a lot of it.
However there's something a little off, I can't quite put my finger on it.
I really genuinely enjoy playing LOTV, I think
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Germany25641 Posts
Lets not discuss something that is incredibly outdated now.
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