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On May 05 2015 16:28 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 16:12 Big J wrote: I fear the constant adjusting of the model weakens the point you are trying to make.
All those conclusions drawn about viable builds without a metagame (or to a less degree fleshed-out balance) to support DH9 sound very premature to me. Alas, It seems this will suffer the same fate as most projects that thinks in terms of solutions instead of identifying and specifying problems first, you end forcing your solution to a not well described environement and you lack the tools and indicators to correctly validate the said solution. It can work out of sheer luck and godly inspiration, but most of the time you end up trying to put a screw in a wall with hammer. Threfore, such tournaments can't be conclusive cause you don't know exactly what you are testing nor how you measure success or failure It's a good public relation thing, though... and who knows, if you hit hard enough with the hammer, the screw might end up stuck in the wall... The problem identified is the lack of diminishing returns on worker efficiency, and that's what DH is trying to solve. The mod is supposed to highlight precisely what happens when you implement this concept and therefore I think it's worthwhile to tweak the model so that the best possible version exists which is capable of showcasing this idea. If the mod completely destabilizes the early game you'll never see the intended effects because games will end too quickly.
But of course DH is always going to fail since any change to the game will destabilize it in some way and the authors don't have the power to add the necessary compensations such as tweaks to macro mechanics and so on. It's not supposed to be TL's pro mod after all; nevertheless I'm sure the TL strategy team is aware of this and will simply try to analyze the available data with these limitations in mind.
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Any insight on how the tournament when and how economy changed with this model ? was it impactfull ? visible in the game ? did it produce better games ?
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Finals didn't happen yet, did they? When will they be casted? xD
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On May 05 2015 21:35 Barrin wrote: Finals didn't happen yet, did they? When will they be casted? xD
They did happen! It was whisper-casted by Catz:
http://www.twitch.tv/rootcatz/v/4694054
- semi finals (LiquidMaNa vs Beastyqt) at 9:30 - semi finals (Arthur vs iaguz) at 59:04 - finals at 1:27:48
On May 05 2015 21:28 HonorZ wrote: Any insight on how the tournament when and how economy changed with this model ? was it impactfull ? visible in the game ? did it produce better games ? In my biased opinion: YES !!! Some comments are lying around, just scroll up a couple of posts. But I - and probably others involved in the mod - don't want to comment too much before actually watching all the replays. We are waiting for the replay pack to go online.
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lol most signups were zerg; not 1 zerg made it to semi-finals
I prefer watching zergs being casted. I'll wait for the replays
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Thanks again for hosting this and getting beyond theorycrafting alone. I humbly request you schedule the next one on a Friday, if possible
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Canada13372 Posts
I've been super busy with real life stuff but it sounds like it went well! Very exciting :D
shoutout to blacklillium for fixing a bug in our mod which would mess up workers returning to mineral lines after shift queuing commands.
The new version is available as "Double Harvesting (3x3)", v 1.1 in all regions.
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is there going to be another tournament with this mod soon?
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On May 06 2015 03:37 ZeromuS wrote: I've been super busy with real life stuff but it sounds like it went well! Very exciting :D
shoutout to blacklillium for fixing a bug in our mod which would mess up workers returning to mineral lines after shift queuing commands.
The new version is available as "Double Harvesting (3x3)", v 1.1 in all regions.
Oh that did turn out to be a bug? Glad to see it got fixed after it fucked me super hard in my matches :D
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Canada13372 Posts
On May 06 2015 04:02 KatatoniK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 03:37 ZeromuS wrote: I've been super busy with real life stuff but it sounds like it went well! Very exciting :D
shoutout to blacklillium for fixing a bug in our mod which would mess up workers returning to mineral lines after shift queuing commands.
The new version is available as "Double Harvesting (3x3)", v 1.1 in all regions.
Oh that did turn out to be a bug? Glad to see it got fixed after it fucked me super hard in my matches :D
Yeah it was a bug, im not much of a map editor
Glad BL fixed it
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On May 06 2015 04:02 KatatoniK wrote: Oh that did turn out to be a bug? Glad to see it got fixed after it fucked me super hard in my matches :D
Not being able to queue orders to an SCV mining is obviously a bug and not a feature. Someone told you otherwise? I was simply sloppy when creating the necessary triggers in the old version. There is a new condition now in place to make sure that no queued order becomes silently cancelled.
Sorry to hear it caused problems in your matches. It should be fixed... unless I messed something up again After all - every program has bugs!
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Have there been any changes since the Scarlett showmatches? If not, I think this model is inferior to the LOTV model. Because it's nowhere near drastic enough. Maybe if it changed the optimal saturation from 16 to 8 it could compete/beat the LOTV model.
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Are you sure that "being drastic" the only measurement of being good or bad? You do know what that statement entail?
P.S. How are the replays coming?
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On May 06 2015 04:51 BlackLilium wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 04:02 KatatoniK wrote: Oh that did turn out to be a bug? Glad to see it got fixed after it fucked me super hard in my matches :D
Not being able to queue orders to an SCV mining is obviously a bug and not a feature. Someone told you otherwise? I was simply sloppy when creating the necessary triggers in the old version. There is a new condition now in place to make sure that no queued order becomes silently cancelled. Sorry to hear it caused problems in your matches. It should be fixed... unless I messed something up again After all - every program has bugs!
It could've been a classic case of problem exists between computer and chair. I've had my fair share of MKP level of what the actual hell moments
I respect that bugs happen, I tried to help the guys in the chat channel as much a possible after the matches. Even watched the replay back several times myself afterwards to check some stuff. Probably good it happened to a gold league scrub like me and not someone like MaNa to be fair
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On May 07 2015 00:29 KatatoniK wrote: I respect that bugs happen, I tried to help the guys in the chat channel as much a possible after the matches. I was there in the chat and I remember you reporting the problem. I thought I did acknowledge the existence of the bug there too... anyway; now it is fixed and you can enjoy queueing SCVs as much as you want to
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Katowice25012 Posts
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On May 06 2015 21:45 BlackLilium wrote: Are you sure that "being drastic" the only measurement of being good or bad? You do know what that statement entail?
P.S. How are the replays coming? Because the current model is bad, and the DH model didn't seem to change it much at all.
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On May 07 2015 09:04 MaximilianKohler wrote: Because the current model is bad, and the DH model didn't seem to change it much at all.
Oh, I am seeing changes. But you can play your standard 2-base or 3-base if you want. Making it more drastic (in terms of the curve) buffs expanding but also buffs early all-ins.
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On May 07 2015 09:04 MaximilianKohler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 21:45 BlackLilium wrote: Are you sure that "being drastic" the only measurement of being good or bad? You do know what that statement entail?
P.S. How are the replays coming? Because the current model is bad, and the DH model didn't seem to change it much at all. I don't really understand this argument. If the current model is bad, then shouldn't you try to change it? DH is part of an effort to change the underlying fundamentals of the economy. LotV achieves this by lowering mineral patch values, but this could be combined with DH. FRB achieves this by lowering mineral patches per base, but this could be combined with DH. And so on.
The main point of DH is to give you a strategic option against passive players in the late-game by taking a few extra bases, there are some additional benefits but that's the main one.
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On May 07 2015 04:04 Heyoka wrote:I forgot about replays! Here they are in all their glory. I nearly finished watching all the replays... but R7_ROOTiaguz_vs_Beastyqt_Game_5 is not a valid replay. It is a short one where players realize they are not playing with the mod. The real game 5 is missing.
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