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EDIT: I think you guys are getting the wrong idea. This is design, not balance. Photon Overcharge is not imba, but it's shitty by design and so is the Mamaship Core. Please, don't go full Avilo.
I won't whine (well, maybe a little x3) about it since I'm pretty biased towards it as a Terran player, and although I won't call it imbalanced or anything, it makes defending, say, a 2 rax, as easy for a goldie as it is for PartinG.
It's not necessarily imbalanced as much as it is just poorly thought out. It seems like a bandaid thing because of how weak early Protoss was in Wings and one click all-purpose defense seems a little, well, retarded to say the least. At least for an RTS like StarCraft II.
Also, if anybody has suggestions, throw them out! I hate it, but I don't have any solutions either and you never know what David might read (:
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I think mana requirement should be lowered to 25. No other changes.
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As a Terran I resent it too
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On May 06 2015 21:05 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:I think mana requirement should be lowered to 25. No other changes. Well I think something should replace it... it's an all-purpose cleaner and that's not good in an RTS.
I mean, I don't like the "this counters this counters this counters this" thing StarCraft II has, but PO counters EVERYTHING.
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What would be a useful replacement? Protoss needs something, or they will be stuck inside their base all game with no chance of ever moving out in case a single medivac is lurking. They'd also either need something to help them earlygame, or worse yet make their units stronger which would screw up lategame.
Anyone can find a problem. The problem is finding a solution
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Yes, I think a change is due, if not to Photon Overcharge itself then to how the Mothership Core functions. I've been playing quite a bit with Adepts and tbh I don't feel the Mothership Core is really necassary anymore aside from maybe aerial threads early game. Recall however is super important if we still want to see aggressive capabilities of Protoss.
Mothership Core was always a bandaid fix and really don't scale into LotV. The need of rapid expanding+the keyword that Blizzard wants fights to happen everywhere doesn't coincide with how the Mothership Core work. You can only have so many Photon Overcharges and only having 1 Core always promoted Death Ball singular attacks from Protoss. A Recall that works like the old Mothership or is only availabe in some kind of defensive structure is a much better solution in my eyes and allows the vision for the hyper aggressive Protoss with warp in's everywhere and recalling parts home and always changing positions. Protoss really have so much potential as a race and I know it sounds really broken, but Recall can be a super small box that can only send 10 units home, if needed.
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Everytime I think about Protoss, I come to the conclusion that Zealots should be stronger. You can't buff Stalkers because Blink all-ins are already pretty strong, but stronger Zealots would allow Protoss to depend less on all these things that nobody likes: nexus cannon, forcefield all over, have-aoe-or-die, etc.
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I would like to have Photon overcharge transfered from MSC to the Nexus, for, let's say 25 energy. This would allow the same mechanic as Terran with mule/scan: - you have to keep energy in case of DT rush so you can scan. - you have to stop chronoboosting so you have mana to cast photon overcharge.
Maybe reduce the lenght or something else to keep it fine.
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On May 06 2015 21:19 Excludos wrote:What would be a useful replacement? Protoss needs something, or they will be stuck inside their base all game with no chance of ever moving out in case a single medivac is lurking. They'd also either need something to help them earlygame, or worse yet make their units stronger which would screw up lategame. Anyone can find a problem. The problem is finding a solution
Not true. Sure PO helps with drop defense, but you absolutely need units in your main to defend against medivac drops. A single medivac can still be annoying staying out of PO range sniping structures, but if a Terran sees you moving out leaving only a mothership core behind for defense, he'll just pick up as many units as he could and doom drop your main.
Watching pro PvTs, when moving out the toss will first try to zone out the Terran army away from his main if doing an all-in, in which case the mothership core is brought along for time warp anyway. And if the move out was simply to take a third, 99.99% of pros will split off 6-8 stalkers into the main and spend chronos on blink.
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Photon overcharge should remove the nexus' shields. Shuts down early aggression i.e. 4 Gate but makes it weaker as the game goes on. They could come back instantly/very quickly afterwards
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I learned to accept it. I think it's fine now, it does make the game better
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On May 06 2015 21:37 SChlafmann wrote: I would like to have Photon overcharge transfered from MSC to the Nexus, for, let's say 25 energy. This would allow the same mechanic as Terran with mule/scan: - you have to keep energy in case of DT rush so you can scan. - you have to stop chronoboosting so you have mana to cast photon overcharge.
Maybe reduce the lenght or something else to keep it fine.
This is actually a pretty good idea. It still has the problem that it's kind of '1-click' defense, but it gets past the problem of MSC not being able to defend multiple bases in LotV.
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I really hate it in hots. However, I'll be fine with it in lotv if the lotv economy remains the same.
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I've accepted it for what it is, but I don't think it makes the game better. It helps less skilled players in high multitasking situations, they can just f-click and go back to their army in certain base trade situations, whereas the terran needs to pay attention to 2 fights at the same time. Protoss having something to defend their base is fine IMO, but this defensive ability is very noob-friendly.
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I think Blizzard should get rid of the MSC and give other tools to protoss. I've hated the MSC since day one and never understood why Blizzard was ok with this unit.
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This comes along the way of awful things protoss has due to blizzards reluctance to make any meaningful changes to warp gate, you either make a bunch of units and have stupid all ins (in response to someone saying zealots should be stronger, just look at builds like the San-gate or the Hitman special wich are just getting a ton of Gateway and massing zealots against zerg) or they don't make many units and try to tech expand and their units die too easily.
If blizzard makes the changes to Gateway a lot of people have asked (have stronger units that can only come from Gateway and make only the harras units come from warpgate) then protoss could have stronger units that could allow them to defend and move around the map without fear of counter attacks while at the same time not making all ins where you have 1 pylon in the other side of the map broken as hell.
The MsC (PO included) is just one of those band-aid thing that blizzards implemented because they don't want to change the core of the game, one of the many there is.
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Photon overcharge is the best thing ever introduced to the game since its launch in 2010. The terran whining didn't make sense in 2013 and doesn't make now.
Its sad to enter this forum to read complaints about forcefields, warpagte and MSC. Move on. Life is too short.
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They can't as long as they focus on making harass so retardedly good and not giving P enough early game mobility. If we are to believe current LotV shows the direction they want to take for the game, there is zero possibility for overcharge to go.
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
Every time they mention this I mention medics. Remove healing from drop ships, return the medic. Can you imagine 3 rax pressure with medics against nowadays standard "I have a MSC and a Stalker, I can tech with safe expansion" builds?
Yes, it would be horrible to balance TvZ again, but in TvP it has it cons and pros(BTW how hard would be to feedback a ghost when there are medics on the ground too? ,-) Also free starports for vikings/ravens/BCs )
I've never played Starbow BTW, I just love medics(and I am a Protoss player).
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If they remove photon overcharge the mothership core will suffer an identity crisis and Blizzard will have to reconsider the unit; and since it's highly intertwined with various aspects of protoss this adds some complications Blizzard might not desire, for instance various forms of defender's advantage would need to be increased.
Keep in mind that despite some promises LotV is not changing that much, you can't assume that Blizzard will have the resources to drastically re-imagine the protoss race. Addressing warpgate, the economy and the colossus is already quite major from their perspective, but here too they have been minimalist in making changes. For instance, there have been zero changes to warpgate units to compensate for the nerf.
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