On January 24 2016 15:52 BronzeKnee wrote:You are when I have a strong case that it proves something based on
facts. The argument was that Protoss versus Terran was Protoss favored. However, Protoss is winning as many games against Terran as Terran wins against Protoss based on a website that collects data on win rates. Therefore, the argument isn't correct, because the definition of the word "favored" implies that one side have a better chance to win, and we know if anything, Terran has a slightly better chance to win based on the win rates.
Statistics matter. Facts matter. I know how inconvenient that is for the argument that Protoss is destroying Terran left and right. I'm sorry it isn't true. I'd be with you if the facts said TvP was in a terrible place winrate wise, seriously I'd be with you.
But you're telling me win rates don't matter. And you want to ignore them.
So what does matter?And whatever your answer is, it must be independent of the winrates. In other words, your answer must be able to explain why the imbalance isn't demonstrated in the win rates. That is a huge constraint, but I'd love to hear the argument if you've got it. I love being wrong because it increases the chances I'll be right next time.
I'm really looking forward to understanding balance better in SC2 without relying on winrates. I'd love to use your new objective measure based on statistics or qualitative thinking that can balance the game better. Blizzard, Riot, Valve and other companies have been erroneously using win rates which is "meaningless" apparently. So do tell.
And honestly, I've spent my entire life trying to argue, like Rene Descartes did, that things can be proven, that knowledge can exist. The skeptical argument was disproved by Descartes long ago, but people are ignorant and tell me that we can't prove things all the time, and then they go ahead and use fallacies to explain why things are the way they are.
At this point, I don't argue to prove anything to anyone, I argue to defend those who already know. Statistics matter.
Show nested quote +On January 24 2016 09:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
So I'm cherry-picking by proving the claim "Terrans get 3-0'd by Protoss"... by showing games where Protoss 3-0 Terrans...
That was not your claim and you're be purposely disingenuous right now. Everyone knows Terrans can lose three games to Protoss.
Here it is:
Show nested quote +On January 24 2016 06:54 pure.Wasted wrote:
Nerfing damage by -2 wouldn't have changed a single other relationship that I can think of. Why not play it safe and avoid having to renerf Adepts two weeks later after it turns out Terran's still get 3-0'd? There's literally no risk unless you consider the (highly unlikely) possibility of completely killing aggressive Adept openings a very bad thing. And even if it did, there's still MSC, Stalkers, Oracles... but it wouldn't...
Your claim was that an imbalance existed because Terrans were losing three games to none against Protoss due to Adepts, and that a -1 to their damage versus light wouldn't stop that, Terrans would continue losing 3-0 if Adepts only recieved a -1 to damage versus light. But when you look at the bigger pictures, Protoss losses just as much as Terran does in TvP, so you were cherry picking those statistics instead of looking at the bigger picture. That is where the winrates come in.
It isn't and wasn't evidence, it is hyperbole. There are plenty of times when Protoss loses three games to none versus Terran and it is evidence of nothing by itself.
And I know people like crazedrat will tell me that winrates don't matter, which I find ironic because he won't damn your statement based on cherry picked statistics of a few series where Terrans lose 3-0.
But such is bias.