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Poll: Do you like this Solution ? *Remain Neutral *No, It's not the thing I want for Swarmhosts (56) 74% Yes, it's a good Idea (9) 12% Yes, but I would make some tweaks (6) 8% No, It removes the Identity of Swarmhosts (5) 7% 76 total votes Your vote: Do you like this Solution ? *Remain Neutral * (Vote): Yes, it's a good Idea (Vote): Yes, but I would make some tweaks (Vote): No, It removes the Identity of Swarmhosts (Vote): No, It's not the thing I want for Swarmhosts
SWARMHOST THE ABANDONED CHILD
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Introduction
First of all I'm not a High Tier Starcraft Player and it may not be allowed for me to talk about balance purposes - but this Topic is very important for me, so I would like to share my "Observer" thoughts regarding this topic.
Lately their where several tries to make Swarmhosts a viable Unit for Zerg again. Since LotV and late HotS Days this Unit is faded in the Dark Fog of the Battlefield waiting for years to find back to glory.
The impact of Swarmhosts in the current game is just not their - Supply Costs are to high and the Delay of Attacks is way to long to make this unit worth it.
The only "viable" Strategy for Swarmhosts are Situations where you need to siege an enemy. That's why some Progammers like Snute just unbound the Swarmhost Hotkey.
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Solutions
Back in the HotS Days I really felt in love with this Unit - That's why I can't accept it's fate to remain a memory forever.
Personally I think I came up with a "Idea" to remain the new Role of a Siege Unit, but also given back the feeling of being a worth unit to build, which isn't totally overpowered in first place.
The Main Concept of my Idea came while I was playing a Match of "LoL" - In LoL their is a Item called ZZ'Rot Portal which summons frequently "Voidlings" that only target structures, so I could imagine how it would be like if Swarmhosts or "Locusts" would fullfill the same purpose in Starcraft 2. ______________________________________________________________________________________________
Facts regarding this new Swarmhost
To clear out this Idea here are some facts how this new Swarmhost would looklike:
1. The Swarmhost 3.0 only targets down Structures, meaning it can't hit Units in firstplace. 2. Locusts ignore Units and just can move through them so you can't block of the Locust. 3. The Spawnsequence is way shorter (My suggestion : 12 seconds) 4. Damage is lower then current version to balance things out. 5. Maybe lower Tech Requirements to open up new early Strategy for Zerg Players f.e. Roach Warren Tech. 6. Remaining Flying Locust - but still require a higher Tier Tech to open up lategame Macro Harassment Options.
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Feedback
After sharing my thought's I would like to invite all of you to comment on my Idea and give feedback towards this Idea or your proper Steps to fight of this Problem.
Please remain Neutral and respect the current Situation of this Unit - No Zerg is IMBA anyway stuff.
PS: Keep in mind English is my 2nd Language so Grammar is kinda hard for me.
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Not every unit in the game will be used in all metas. Just deal with it. One unit replaces another. We are not gonna see compositions of 10 different units in any matchup. Just hope that the meta ends up with compositions that are sufficiently diverse and most importantly fun to watch and rewarding skillful play.
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Meanwhile in Terran land... Ravens, Cyclones and Battlecruisers are rusting away...
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On May 23 2016 04:18 Aunvilgodess wrote: Not every unit in the game will be used in all metas. Just deal with it. One unit replaces another. We are not gonna see compositions of 10 different units in any matchup. Just hope that the meta ends up with compositions that are sufficiently diverse and most importantly fun to watch and rewarding skillful play. what's the point of this post? players like the idea of underused units entering the meta. so does blizzard - they've said so. blizzard also invites players to come up with design ideas, and they also read those ideas and refer to them in announcements. so why shut down someone's idea with "no, deal with it"? just trying to be tough shit online?
at least present a counter argument and engage in conversation
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Still don't understand why there should be a unit that spawns another units with no cost - that's excactly where design of swarmhost starts to struggle
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On May 23 2016 04:24 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: Still don't understand why there should be a unit that spawns another units with no cost - that's excactly where design of swarmhost starts to struggle
It's basiclly the biological ammuntion of Swarmhosts... Otherwise they could just shoot Ooze but that would look really akward.
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On May 23 2016 04:28 Mightygear wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2016 04:24 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: Still don't understand why there should be a unit that spawns another units with no cost - that's excactly where design of swarmhost starts to struggle
It's basiclly the biological ammuntion of Swarmhosts... Otherwise they could just shoot Ooze but that would look really akward.
Oh come on, they could've been just deleted like thier terran brother during hots beta - warhound
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Swarmhost should be reworked as a ground based, anti-air Brood Lord.
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Only a true, glorious Host like in the days of HotS can make the Swarm great again. The Swarm Host was the savior of SC2, the prophet of glorious tales to come, the key to the Pantheon of eSports. Now the Swarm Host has been killed by mob justice, and that same mob is now dying from lack of everything, as in their blind rage they didn't realize that their foolishness was going to be lethal, not for their enemies, but for themselves.
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Zerg is supply inneficient already, we can't spare having units that can only attack buildings
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On May 23 2016 04:47 ihatevideogames wrote: Swarmhost should be reworked as a ground based, anti-air Brood Lord. stated this multiple times. Z lack of good lategame antiair is a problem the swarm host could solve.
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Mightygear, I get where you're coming from, and I would want to see all the underused units be revamped to be useful, but I would NEVER want to see the Swarm Host return with its current design, 'free' disposable units to perform Harassment, as its biggest feature. That design & mechanic, and how the opponent can react, is sooooooooo infuriating with so little healthy interaction. Let alone, the Locust being a squishy but high DPS unit makes it even more problematic design because without being massed, it's DPS cannot cover how fasted it gets destroyed.
I full heartedly want to see the Swarm Host be useful again. Its such a disservice to the game's potential having units that are just terribly designed (and when I say design, I do NOT mean being weak) and not attempt to revamp them to be good for the game. But what the designers attempted to make it do and how it was supposed to achieved that, I am glad they nerfed it hard and sort of hate that they are buffing it.
If I was to revamp/rework the Swarm Host, it's main attraction would NOT be it's harassment potential with Locust. That would still exist, but it would be in an even weaker state then it is currently at (example: reduce DPS by 50%). To make "free-units be able to harass consistently (while the Swarm Host can just easily relocate the moment it spawns them)" semi-useful & worth it, it would create soooo much frustration for the opponent to deal with.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Honestly would be happier if during the off season the unit was removed entirely and the unit slot used for something more interesting.
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stated this multiple times. Z lack of good lategame antiair is a problem the swarm host could solve.
I am 100% against this idea if it involves the Swarm Host spawning 'free' anti-air units. All it would do is create a situation in which going air units against the Zerg being 100% useless. This would create a zone of which the the opponent air unit can't even engage the Swarm Host because you're just meet a wall of free units killing yours long before that happens.
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On May 23 2016 05:03 OtherWorld wrote: Only a true, glorious Host like in the days of HotS can make the Swarm great again. The Swarm Host was the savior of SC2, the prophet of glorious tales to come, the key to the Pantheon of eSports. Now the Swarm Host has been killed by mob justice, and that same mob is now dying from lack of everything, as in their blind rage they didn't realize that their foolishness was going to be lethal, not for their enemies, but for themselves.
Stephano vs Petraeus was the greatest SC2 game ever.
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On May 23 2016 04:47 ihatevideogames wrote: Swarmhost should be reworked as a ground based, anti-air Brood Lord.
Been saying they should spawn scourge for a cost since the beta last year
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On May 23 2016 05:23 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2016 05:03 OtherWorld wrote: Only a true, glorious Host like in the days of HotS can make the Swarm great again. The Swarm Host was the savior of SC2, the prophet of glorious tales to come, the key to the Pantheon of eSports. Now the Swarm Host has been killed by mob justice, and that same mob is now dying from lack of everything, as in their blind rage they didn't realize that their foolishness was going to be lethal, not for their enemies, but for themselves. Stephano vs Petraeus was the greatest SC2 game ever. You have no idea what my orgasm frequency was during that game.
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On May 23 2016 05:20 Clear World wrote:Show nested quote +stated this multiple times. Z lack of good lategame antiair is a problem the swarm host could solve. I am 100% against this idea if it involves the Swarm Host spawning 'free' anti-air units. All it would do is create a situation in which going air units against the Zerg being 100% useless. This would create a zone of which the the opponent air unit can't even engage the Swarm Host because you're just meet a wall of free units killing yours long before that happens. "Free units" is just a design, it's not different from infinite bullets of marines, or storm when you have enough energy is just as free as having a cooldown to throw another wave.
Actually you can kill the free units, while you can't kill the bullets, or dodge them, so it's inferior of the other design.
The real strenght was HOTS SH had a real huge range, SH were safe and can send a lot of waves of locusts, while the other couldnt reach the host, as they could back when they have realeased locusts.
Aslo no need to have sight (contrary of tempest for example) with locusts.
Imagine a tempest with 30 range with 30 sight, and HOTS old SH, so according to you old SH is stronger because it realeases free unit, and tempest doesn't ?
Come on, free units just make the unit weaker.
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On May 23 2016 04:21 Psychobabas wrote: Meanwhile in Terran land... Ravens, Cyclones and Battlecruisers are rusting away... True
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Canada8767 Posts
Come come everybody and let me tell you a story...
It all start under the sparkling sun of a country across the mighty mountain. A daddy programmer was closely watching all his little eggs, he knew that they were close to hatch and couldn't wait for them to explore the vast and beautiful world.
One by one all the eggs cracked and from each of them a starcraft units came out.
- Oh how wonderful they are! Said their caring protector.
But then he saw another egg that had not yet hatch, the programmer didn't remember this egg and was curious about it. So he waited with anticipation at the time when he would discover what was under that tick shell. And then it finally happen, but the surprise was not as good one for the father. The unit was a round bowl, his head was a minuscule excrescence, he was clumsy, always falling down on in chest and not moving for what seems like hours. It was an ugly little unit.
But kind and patient was the father, and pass the initial shock he said to himself:
-Lets give him a chance, he may be strange but I am sure that when he grow up he will make some very creative and exiting games with all his brothers and sisters.
And then time past, all the other unit where discovering the the world with marvel, oh of course is wasn't without friction with the older units, and at the start some of them complain about the kids mischievous actions. It must be said that they were not always easy to be with, some hided in the ground to surprise the unlucky soul that past by them, while other jumped on hard working unit disturbing their work and scaring them, other just ran circle around everyone else teasing them to try to catch them. But under the watchful eye of the daddy programmer they all grew to like each other and they played together in harmony. All but one single unit.
Life was not easy for the ugly little unit, when he was young the other unit ignore him. What game is there to play with a big fat rock that can't do two feet without falling down! They said. But he was persevering and push by his father he went meeting the other unit and try to get involve in their game. He wasn't fast, or strong, or agile, but he was tireless so he decide to lay down and to trow little rock at his sibling.
At first they all laugh at him: Is that all you can do hahahaha, you are so pathetic!
The ugly little unit was hurt from their comments, but he stay true to himself and continued to trow his rocks, sure that eventually they would start to pay attention to him and finally invite him in their group.
But the more he threw his rock the more the insult kept coming but this time it wasn't laughter but hatred that was throw back at him:
-Imba! Imba! Imba! -Cancer unit! - Boring - You spoil all our games!
At first the unit went to see the daddy programmer with anger in their eye, saying that the ugly little unit didn't deserve to be with them, that he was not a real unit and that he should be abandon to die at the first opportunity. But the father of the ugly little unit loved all his units and he said that they should learn to play with the ugly little unit and that if they try they could incorporate a lot of creativity with his trowing rock prowess. But no one listen to him, they all kept insulting the ugly little unit, after a while he grew tired of trowing his rock not because he had no more energy but because his heavy heart finally broke his courage. He didn't wanted to play with the other unit anymore he only wanted to make the insults to stop and be alone.
But has soon as he stop trowing his rock a big bright unit with a strange smile march in his direction, the hope of the ugly little unit ended in a second when this stranger started to poke him with a stick. The ugly little unit was surprise at first and he tried to defend himself, but the other one was quick and he seems to poke him from everywhere at the same time. The ugly little unit started to moan from the pain and it wasn't pity that came out from everyone observing but joy and laughter, they said his scream was the most pleasant thing they ever heard and they cheer his assailant like a hero.
Went it was finally over the ugly little unit went back to his father, the programmer was shock about what happen but at the same time he was busy with his new brood and didn't know what to do to help the ugly little unit. He tried to put little wings on his rock so they could fly, and he started to teach him how to run faster, but nothing could do it. The ugly little unit still had no friend and each day he grew sadder, until one day he decided to leave them all and to go on a trip where he could finally escape to this cruel world.
He walked for days and days until one day he heard weird noise in the distance and decided to go see what it was. When he got closer he was at first scare, the noise was in fact voice and it was not pleasant at all! All he could heard were things like :
-F*cking newb! -Shitty teammate! -Stop feeding...
But as much as he was afraid his curiosity was stronger and when we got closer he saw people just like him! They were all not moving and playing at trowing little rock endlessly, but here no one was trowing insult at them, they were even protected and loved by all their friends!. So the ugly little unit when to those strange being to and told them their story, and his interlocutors didn't laugh at him or insulted him but instead told him that he was in fact no starcraft unit at all and that all along he was a beautiful inhibitor.
And to this day the ugly little unit became a happy inhibitor and each time his old starcraft torturer see him now playing with all his friend they regret their old cruelty.
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