"Amon", Zerg, Kerrigan and so on
Forum Index > Closed |
Luxion
2 Posts
| ||
I wasbanned fromthis
113 Posts
| ||
Xsyq
143 Posts
Also, I don't think it's ever stated directly in SC1 why the Overmind created Kerrigan. She was created before the Overmind had any idea that the UED existed, so it wasn't for that reason. | ||
OrangeGarage
Korea (South)319 Posts
| ||
BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
| ||
Riner1212
United States337 Posts
that is the concept they used. personally, i think they should have kept kerrigan evil and raynor should have killed her. would be better that way. | ||
Senkii
Hungary37 Posts
However, they watered down the narrative to be more pg8 friendly. I feel like they could have totally done the exact same story with the exact conclusion, but maybe the old dark and gritty way (that i liked when i was 12 btw) Well... thats that, and this is this. Everything is becoming a disney production. It can still be enjoyable in a way. | ||
JackONeill
861 Posts
I don't care much for propheties in intrigues, I feel like they're always some cheap excuse to give heroes motivation and force exposition whenever it's convenient. But at least, writing a villian correctly should be a priority. Mengsk, while one dimensional, had clear motivations. He's a power hungry bastard that will do just about anything to be in charge. Amon is just like the villian from green lantern (the terrible movie with ryan reynolds) : a vague blob of evil that's evil for the sake of being evil. A destructive force that fits a role in a pre-defined prophecy that conveniently saves writers from actually coming up with a decent character. | ||
Nazara
United Kingdom235 Posts
Suddenly, the lore feels rich again... | ||
NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On June 24 2016 15:29 JackONeill wrote: Amon was even worse as a villian than a marvel movie's one. He's atrocious. The kind of villian that keep failling each time he interacts with the heroes, while prophesying doom and pompous BS, and having eventually no masterplan whatsoever. I don't care much for propheties in intrigues, I feel like they're always some cheap excuse to give heroes motivation and force exposition whenever it's convenient. But at least, writing a villian correctly should be a priority. Mengsk, while one dimensional, had clear motivations. He's a power hungry bastard that will do just about anything to be in charge. Amon is just like the villian from green lantern (the terrible movie with ryan reynolds) : a vague blob of evil that's evil for the sake of being evil. A destructive force that fits a role in a pre-defined prophecy that conveniently saves writers from actually coming up with a decent character. How bout that butterfly demon from power rangers killing Deckard Cain? Blizzard just can't write a good story anymore thats all. | ||
SmykuToronto
Poland269 Posts
On June 24 2016 13:54 BEARDiaguz wrote: Don't know about that. If anything Warctaft 3 always seemed to me like BW remake with swords minus whole rebel thing plus orcs. SC2 reeks more of Warcraft's expanded universe novels stupidity and WoW. Except I find Warcraft stuff very entertaining as a glorious schlock. SC2 makes me just sad.I think they just played Warcraft 3 again and thought "man people liked that game a whole lot, let's just remake it but IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE" | ||
iamho
3344 Posts
| ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
I've been pretty underwhelmed by Blizzard's stories (by which i mean, i fucking hated them) for a long time tbh. Wow's lore is even worse than SC2 now which is saying something. LotV started decently with the invasion of Aiur and losing the Khala, but then ending with Jesus Kerrigan was pretty terrible | ||
Cricketer12
United States13834 Posts
On June 24 2016 18:11 Teoita wrote: Relevant Carbot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntR2g8L6y7Y I've been pretty underwhelmed by Blizzard's stories (by which i mean, i fucking hated them) for a long time tbh. Wow's lore is even worse than SC2 now which is saying something. LotV started decently with the invasion of Aiur and losing the Khala, but then ending with Jesus Kerrigan was pretty terrible SC1/BW was pretty fucking great and WC3 worked given what it was. After that, 12 years of shit writing. | ||
WGT-Baal
France3155 Posts
On June 24 2016 19:10 Cricketer12 wrote: SC1/BW was pretty fucking great and WC3 worked given what it was. After that, 12 years of shit writing. Diablo2 was also pretty good. I was immensely disappointed in Diablo 3. Sc2 was alright until Amon was brought up. Even retaking Aiur was ok, but the whole prophecy thing sounded wrong. | ||
Ingvar
Russian Federation421 Posts
On June 24 2016 19:18 WGT-Baal wrote: Diablo2 was also pretty good. I was immensely disappointed in Diablo 3. Sc2 was alright until Amon was brought up. Even retaking Aiur was ok, but the whole prophecy thing sounded wrong. The wrote themselves in a corner with prophesy bullshit (because it generally doesn't belong to sci-fi) but I think LotV salvaged it well enough. And uniting protoss was fun. Dialogues were cheesy but I just hope they hire someone next time to write a script for them. | ||
NewModel
Germany124 Posts
On June 24 2016 19:18 WGT-Baal wrote: Diablo2 was also pretty good. I was immensely disappointed in Diablo 3. Sc2 was alright until Amon was brought up. Even retaking Aiur was ok, but the whole prophecy thing sounded wrong. i feel exectly the same. starcraft was a dark scifi universe, way better then his "role model" warhammer with this whole fantasy stuff... All the Starship troopers or Alien references. Starcraft was a serious thing. The Jokes etc weren´t that important, and everybody could die or trasformed into a killer alien. But like you said, all Blizzard Storys now have a narrativ that you are (or in that case you as kerrigan/Raynor) are the fucking hero of the Universe, the only one that can save everything. In old Blizz Storys it was more about Conflicts between Races/parties/people. Now it´s the whole universe that will be destroyed when you aren´t able to stop the dark side everytime. Storywise all newer games were huge dissapointament to me. Diablo 3. Starcraft 2 (Lotv the most). WoW as far as i know something about the lore :D | ||
tokinho
United States777 Posts
On June 24 2016 12:53 Luxion wrote: So I had recently got the Starcraft battle chest and while being enticed in these games - something sparked in my brain. + Show Spoiler + We all know the Kerrigan and Zerg from the olden games. In Brood Wars we have a cold, ruthless Kerrigan who is only willing to ally with Mengsk and Raynor to fully take control of the Zerg as the UED created their own little Overmind. Deciding to consolidate her new Zerg. But she was also created as a desperate goal for the Overmind to free itself from the grasp of the UED and to have the Zerg be independent in some way. Since, now being apart of the UED, the Zerg will be pawns of the UED. But the story changes in Starcraft 2. Dramatically. No longer is Kerrigan this last-ditch effort at survival and independent from the UED, but rather an orchestrated effort to prevent "Amon" from destroying everything. Kerrigan in the 'solution', and the Overmind knew it's death was inevitable as the Overmind was connected with "Amon" and would not be able to resist Amon, nor override it's constant-need to destroy the Protos. Kerrigan is now this. Symbol of a prophecy to save da Galaxy. And I'm a bit confused by it. Why was this narrative needed. The Zerg serve perfectly well as this Horde of Monsters needing to consume and feed to evolve and grow and expand. Similar to the Xenomorphs and the Tyranids, this right-to-be-feared Horde that serves a purpose albeit a very dark one. And while Starcraft 2 and Heart of the Swarm still keep a 'dark and edgy and totally not different Kerrigan" - this seems like a different Kerrigan. But what are your guys thoughts on the narrative change and this "prophecy." Lol, So let me get this straight, this is how you interpreted everything? Like the story as i get it is very different from yours. I did play through the brood war campaign multiple times and in sc2 i have all achievements. Maybe I've grinded so long that my view is so skewed differently from yours. Big picture. Brood war kind of had a lot to do with a pact made with protoss and terran to protect themselves from the zerg threat. But like in the end there is sort of this whole under theory that the hybrids are a big deal. Brood war was left with kind of a lot of unanswered questions. There's like this mission in brood war which kind of skews everything. So like you get done and you find out there's more going on with duran and its just there. I felt like when i finished brood war that there was a need to explain hybrids, and even though starcraft still doesn't have a 4th race. It seemed like blizzard had always intended for there to be one. In sc2, in wings of liberty you do all these missions to collect artifacts which like mensk cannot get, but raynor can. Then once they are collected, they are used to turn kerrigan back into a human in wings of liberty. While this is going on there are side missions just like brood war about the prophecies and the 4th race. In heart of the swarm, the artifacts are then taken by mensk, and kerrigan does all she can to get raynor back and ends up becoming zerg again. Then in LOTV, zeratul convinces the protoss that they are the only ones who can help kerrigan fulfill the prophecy and become part of the 4th race as trancendence. She goes through it to defeat amon. Now there are 3 groups of protoss, tal darim, the templar, and the Khala. There are 3 groups of terran. Confederation, non-confederation, and the psyonics. And there are 3 groups of zerg, Zagara's brood, Kerrigan's brood, and ancients. Its a culmination of things which led to the difference in the groups and story and how they are all linked is part of why kerrigan, zeratul, Raynor is over and the next generation is in control. Like Alarak, Artanis, Dehaka, Zagara, Nova, Valerian, and ouros. Amon, Ouros, destroyers, nemesis, all are sort of unanswered to why they are there or distinctions about how they manage resources to get gestate to what they are. Except its a culmination of the prophecy. I was hoping the covert ops/co-op would bring the 4th race once and for all to starcraft a psionic temporal race. Maybe I'm missing something then as to where you change comes in brood war and when the prophecy actually began. I thought it began in brood war and i still think there is a lot of unanswered questions of the current state of the hybrids. ------------------------------------------------- This is part of what i had in mind when making this post about way that they could further the story while developing the game more into factions that weren't so heavily balanced but more for a casual ladder with more diversity and microtransactions for the future of the game and tournaments scene. Possible Implementation Examples: (high resolution versions on my Imgur) In Game Rewards- One possible idea is a tech diversity model to make the game more fun Tech Diversity as a robust microtransaction system [spoiler] The base of this idea comes from counterstrike where the casual ladder has more maps/guns/other options. Other RTS have more tech ladder store options as well such as Company of Heroes, or civilization. Expanded units in casual games- Hunter-Killer Doge- Has cleave damage. Kamikaze Doge- Has explosive damage Ruse Doge- Has half health, but cannot be damaged unless targeted individually. Also each one of these actually deals with a playstyle in the game. (I'll give you 3 hints. David slayed who? Going with Grills- What is a female support unit? Jackson's revenge was in the nova mission.) Casual Ladders Play Detailed Physical implementation ideas: (I'll keep adding images as i make them over the next few days, also on my Imgur) I know voting play is a bit vague but i picture it more like observer mode/archon mode style to the games. I could imagine there being a variety of possible mods as well. Most notably, the starcrafts mod. Veto Play in the expanded casual model Vetoe'd play. Notice that the custom map is not in the current map pool. Also, there are many more tech options due to the different tech trees that open. I also like the idea of displaying your personal notes about a player or clan notes about a player so you have a better idea what to think when doing vetoes. | ||
RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
The biggest gripe I have with it is, that it becomes obvious the SC2 team actually tried. They put a lot of effort into the game, this is undebatable. But the fact it still turned up like shit is really depressing. When you try so bad and you still cant do it, tahts frustrating to watch. | ||
tokinho
United States777 Posts
On June 24 2016 20:32 RoomOfMush wrote: The story is never the problem. You can make ANY story work, all you need is good dialogues, good scenes, good atmosphere, etc. Even the "worst" of stories filled with overused tropes can be made great if the writing is good. But in SC2 it simply wasnt. The dialogues were sub par right from the beginning. It was a massive disappointment. The biggest gripe I have with it is, that it becomes obvious the SC2 team actually tried. They put a lot of effort into the game, this is undebatable. But the fact it still turned up like shit is really depressing. When you try so bad and you still cant do it, tahts frustrating to watch. I liked it. Thought the writing was good. Didn't think it turned out bad in any way. This points to the fact you didn't even paid attention with your completely aweful evaluation of the story. | ||
| ||