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Hi,
may I suggest a new feature for SC2: What about if we could choose our own map pool all the time? Instead of having maps picked by blizzard for each season, we could choose our own pool of maps (let’s say 10) and then hit the find match button to find matches with all players that have at least one of those maps in common. Maps are picked randomly from that intersection as usual.
Now this could have the following effects: * no more beloved maps get taken out of the map pool (overgrowth, dusk towers, …) * there won’t be any maps which everybody hates (people just wouldn’t pick it over a long time) * tournaments (gsl / ssl / proleague) with a fixed map pools will probably dictate the map pool chosen by the players, because everybody wants to play them * team liquid map contest or else will give new inspiration to try new maps * the result would be a “living map pool” which is the currently most commonly played maps which slowly evolves over time
So in the end instead of getting new maps every season and have to veto the ones we don’t like we could just choose our own map pool from currently “hot” maps that are played in tournaments we are following so we could play on those match as well competitively in ladder without having to open custom games with friends. Good maps would automatically evolve that way to be chosen for a long time, bad maps will be out quite quickly.
I personally would be quite happy if such a feature would be announced by blizzard, but I’m also curious if this model would work at all. What do you think about it?
shockwave
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I see two problems:
1) Longer queue times when game population falls 2) Pros don't know which maps to practice on
2 could be solved by tournament organisers choosing maps beforehand, although it would still suck if they didn't always choose the same maps. But 1 is probably the bigger problem and I don't see a solution to that one.
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On July 23 2016 18:28 skywave wrote:
* the result would be a “living map pool” which is the currently most commonly played maps which slowly evolves over time
shockwave
This would work for maybe couple months. After that the maps being played would have become stable and choosing different maps to your map pool would mean that you never play those maps. Only time when large enough part of players would change their maps would be when tournaments update their map pool (which is basically the current system)
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nope thx.
searching for a game would take MUCH longer and it would be a rly joke, because you could chose maps, which are heavily favoured for your race. lets take prion terraces. it would be taken only by zergs.
the system is fine as it is. new maps every 3-4 months. it need time to develop changes in the meta. such wide spreaded maps would prevent that.
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quality troll post. Every point of it pretty much.
User was warned for this post
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Well pro tournaments anyway have their own mappool, which is often slightly different from the current ladder mappool.
Maybe this feature (choosing own mappool + find match automatically) could also be implemented as additional multiplayer, not replacing the current one. Then there wouldn't be any conflict. Wouldn't care if it'd be ranked or unranked...
I'm not trying to troll, I'm very happy with the game, just wish I could play current tournament maps on ladder.
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While for ladder it d be complicated, i would like to expand on your idea by changing the way custom maps are created. Having a fully customised name would be great, like bw or wc3, because you could practice a specific mu on a specific map
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This idea would be pretty easy for bliz zard to implement, in parts at least.
Imagine a 13 map map pool that you veto 5 maps out of...
Nice to have map pool discussions in general, it adds so much exposure to the issue
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one way this could be implemented is by having ALL official maps available on unranked ladder and allowing players to select which maps they want in their pool. to prevent long queue times, players could be "forced" into one of the ranked ladder maps after a certain period of waiting
for ranked ladder, the map pool should always be static, because it is competitive. you can't allow players to pick their own map pools in a tournament (aside from vetoing), for example, because it would no longer be a fair and neutral battleground. ranked ladder is played for points and ranking, so it should be played on level ground
another idea would be allowing individual maps to have "micro-ladders" where you can queue for matchmaking on a specific map... so if someone else wants to play on whirlwind at the same time as you, you would be matched for a custom or unranked game on whirlwind. the wait times might be long for some maps, but it would be your choice to queue only for that map, and if you don't want to wait you could go back to ladder. to encourage usage they could show players how many people are queued for a particular map (lots, few, none)
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On July 23 2016 19:00 DalaiiLameR wrote: nope thx.
searching for a game would take MUCH longer and it would be a rly joke, because you could chose maps, which are heavily favoured for your race. lets take prion terraces. it would be taken only by zergs.
Zergs would see they only get zvz on that map and since most zergs don't like zvz it wouldn't be picked that much.
I think the idea is interesting but with the huge number of maps there are it would probably be too hard to find a match. But still after some time people might realize which the most played maps are and then pick them too. I believe CS GO has a similar system. Could be tried for sure.
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Another solution would be to have the official map pool + 2 or 3 maps to choose in all the maps. With that we could still play on good old maps and would not have long wait times.
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On July 24 2016 00:05 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2016 19:00 DalaiiLameR wrote: nope thx.
searching for a game would take MUCH longer and it would be a rly joke, because you could chose maps, which are heavily favoured for your race. lets take prion terraces. it would be taken only by zergs.
Zergs would see they only get zvz on that map and since most zergs don't like zvz it wouldn't be picked that much. I think the idea is interesting but with the huge number of maps there are it would probably be too hard to find a match. But still after some time people might realize which the most played maps are and then pick them too. I believe CS GO has a similar system. Could be tried for sure. i dont know about the CSGO system but i get what your saying I can see this working in Unranked but not w/o longer game searching dont see any problem with the current system tbh
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Bad idea for both the queue time reasons, and the fact that people would only choose maps that favour their race, and the fact that the map pool would never change. An expanded map pool would be welcome (since bo5 are so much more prevalent now), but this idea isn't any good.
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I am actually remembering the "Dream Pool" time in the end of 2014. To make this clear: That was not a good time for SC2.
For everyone who did not experience it: Blizzard basically made polls about which maps should be played and the 7 most voted maps were implanted as the map pool of the short season between mid November 2014 and January 2015. This resulted in having a lot of WoL maps unsuitable for the HotS play style because the maps were not designed for the changes made from WotL to HotS and I think a lot of players stopped laddering after two weeks.
Your idea would basically be the same because a large portion of the player base does not enjoy macro games or balanced maps.
I think this idea would be terrible for the game
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The best model is to introduce more maps to the pool and add greater veto powers. Simply having 9 competitive maps is too stale.
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On July 24 2016 01:51 Liox wrote: I am actually remembering the "Dream Pool" time in the end of 2014. To make this clear: That was not a good time for SC2.
For everyone who did not experience it: Blizzard basically made polls about which maps should be played and the 7 most voted maps were implanted as the map pool of the short season between mid November 2014 and January 2015. This resulted in having a lot of WoL maps unsuitable for the HotS play style because the maps were not designed for the changes made from WotL to HotS and I think a lot of players stopped laddering after two weeks.
Your idea would basically be the same because a large portion of the player base does not enjoy macro games or balanced maps.
I think this idea would be terrible for the game I'm pretty sure the most played maps would be almost only macro maps. Everyone and their mother has dasan station vetoed atm because players hate gimmicky maps. The dreampool got only a few old wol rush maps in because of nostalgia but almost everyone vetoed them too after a handful of games.
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I see the Dreampool season as a failed attempt of blizzard, to let users have more influence on the current map pool. I am not sure if the people who voted were the ones enjoying playing ladder that season and a lot of people who haven't voted for those maps had no choice than playing them if they wanted to play ladder (which led them to not to play ladder at all) ... bad idea!
On the other hand selecting ten maps or whatever from all official Blizzard maps (or a subset of it) when you ladder instead of vetoing three maps of the current mappool allows you to choose your own "dreampool" immediately and you can change it any time. This way you could select maps that are currently still played in WCS tournaments etc.
I'm not sure if finding matches would really be that hard, of course if you chose only maps from 2010 you're probably not finding anybody to play with. Maybe additional stats of how much certain maps are played at the moment etc. could help to select a more popular mappool.
But it's an argument that race-favoured maps might be selected more often. Means we would end up with more mirror matches?
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On July 24 2016 02:59 skywave wrote:I see the Dreampool season as a failed attempt of blizzard, to let users have more influence on the current map pool. I am not sure if the people who voted were the ones enjoying playing ladder that season and a lot of people who haven't voted for those maps had no choice than playing them if they wanted to play ladder (which led them to not to play ladder at all) ... bad idea! On the other hand selecting ten maps or whatever from all official Blizzard maps (or a subset of it) when you ladder instead of vetoing three maps of the current mappool allows you to choose your own "dreampool" immediately and you can change it any time. This way you could select maps that are currently still played in WCS tournaments etc. I'm not sure if finding matches would really be that hard, of course if you chose only maps from 2010 you're probably not finding anybody to play with. Maybe additional stats of how much certain maps are played at the moment etc. could help to select a more popular mappool. But it's an argument that race-favoured maps might be selected more often. Means we would end up with more mirror matches?
Queue times would be massively longer. Currently with 7 maps and 3 vetoes, any two players have at least one map of overlap, so as long as their MMRs are in the right range they can be matched up. Any set of maps that is twice as large or more than the number of maps selected has the potential for dystopian queue times. In your case with a map pool that is multiple times the size of the selected maps, those extremely long queue times would basically be guaranteed.
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Making the unranked "ladder" with such a system (choosing 3 of "your own" maps among all lotv available online maps to add to "blizz map pool") would work (which in turn would be a doorway to doing it on ladder if it had an undeniable measure of success that is).
Your 3 "choosen" maps would start up on a default setting
then, you change them (all/one by one) if you want (once a day/week/month or something), but you have to choose 3, different ones (it would be the perfect counter to "vetoes"!!!) !
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This goes against everything Blizzard tried to do for maps in SC2!
I don't know if you remember but Broodwar was "Python" all the time every time. And before that, it was "Lost Temple" all the time. Like literally , all the time, not even a second map in rotation!
I am convinced a "free" map pool would result in one or two maps being played 99% of the time. New and experimental maps would not be used any more than they are now used for custom map mode...
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In the case of "doubling both the number of maps in the map pool slots and doubling individual vetoes".. that takes no effort for blizz ard.. the numbers just need to augment, there is solely "unquantifiable"maintenance in question.
I think, whatever has been expressed thus far in this thread, that all want blizz ard to be more on the "taking chances" and experimenting. Adding the maps most selected by the users to the "blizz standard map pool" would again be the perfect counter to the system they have in place now, .. no?: vetoes.
map pool entropy hype
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On July 25 2016 01:44 fluidrone wrote: In the case of "doubling both the number of maps in the map pool slots and doubling individual vetoes".. that takes no effort for blizz ard.. the numbers just need to augment, there is solely "unquantifiable"maintenance in question.
I think, whatever has been expressed thus far in this thread, that all want blizz ard to be more on the "taking chances" and experimenting. Adding the maps most selected by the users to the "blizz standard map pool" would again be the perfect counter to the system they have in place now, .. no?: vetoes.
map pool entropy hype
it's not about changing the numbers, it's about how the new numbers affect the matchmaking algorithm
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On July 25 2016 04:18 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2016 01:44 fluidrone wrote: In the case of "doubling both the number of maps in the map pool slots and doubling individual vetoes".. that takes no effort for blizz ard.. the numbers just need to augment, there is solely "unquantifiable"maintenance in question.
I think, whatever has been expressed thus far in this thread, that all want blizz ard to be more on the "taking chances" and experimenting. Adding the maps most selected by the users to the "blizz standard map pool" would again be the perfect counter to the system they have in place now, .. no?: vetoes.
map pool entropy hype
it's not about changing the numbers, it's about how the new numbers affect the matchmaking algorithm
As long as there are less than 50% vetoes it doesn't affect the matchmaking algorithm at all tbf.
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the only thing i would like to see added is preffered race mu in unranked only
1. If you win the other player loses no points 2. if they win they win points just like a regular game like in unranked as it is now
reason i want this is that i cannot beat the goddamn terran and guess what its one in ten games atm si i never get to learn new stuff, i just lose all my mmr when i go on a 5 terran lose streak at one point in the day
your idea is pretty good tho but i think it would be better IF there was a setting called Legacy maps, if you select that as on then if you are matched with a player with it also on it will pick random from the maps both of you specified, otherwise it picks from the current map vetoes
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On July 25 2016 05:39 beheamoth wrote: the only thing i would like to see added is preffered race mu in unranked only
reason i want this is that i cannot beat the goddamn terran and guess what its one in ten games atm si i never get to learn new stuff, i just lose all my mmr when i go on a 5 terran lose streak at one point in the day
Why dont you just find a terran player and talk to them? ask them if they want to play some practice matches with you? theres a ton of ways to find people at your level, higher or lower too.
I swear we had stuff like this figured out years ago
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