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Without a complete redesign to warpgates.
Warpgates, when buffing the gateway units will always lead to periods where only one unit is produced to hit a timing to kill the oppoenent. The blink era and adept builds dominating the beta and months after release are prime examples.
That is not healthy for the game and is why Blizzard can not give Stalkers or Adepts substantial buffs.
But instead you can focus on other things like supporting gateway units like the sentry (Giving a bonus damage to light, speed increase, range increase, cost decrease or giving the shield recharge ability) or high templar (Storm cost decrease). Units that aren't core to the army but can provide substantial aid.
They are also not vastly benefited by the warpgate mechanic at all, requiring time in order to unlock most of their potential. While still supporting compositional diversity and ability by the player.
Also you could potential buff the Zealot by splitting off it's speed upgrade and charge. Moving the speed to cybercore for 125-125 (cost not and time not set) while keeping the charge (+4.63 movement speed, guaranteed strike, and added 8 ability damage not affected by armour)
Slow Zealots are useless and there is almost no reason to make them past the first starting minutes, and one of the primary reasons why gateway units are weak is because you have to wait for each upgrade to make them useable. But right now twilight is kind of congested having to wait between three upgrades (charge, adept attack speed, blink)
By spliting up the upgrade we can ramp up the effectivness of the basic units while keeping the compositions diverse. While fun micro control by players to mitigate damage from stutter stepping, or bring low health/shield zealots back.
So you can have shading attack speed adepts onto tank lines while having a stronger force of a few immortals, speed zealots and stalkers quickly engage the front.
I feel these are very real, and very effectice ways at buffing gateway units and compositions without having to completely redesign the warpgate (which blizzard would not do.)
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They could make the Zealot great again by giving them the 4.13 charge speed from the start (without the charge of course).
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I like Protoss how it is now, feeling sad and hopeless, exacly the same like Zerg in WoL and HotS :^)
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On January 19 2017 19:19 PharaphobiaSC wrote: I like Protoss how it is now, feeling sad and hopeless, exacly the same like Zerg in WoL and HotS :^) Lol Zerg in Hots? Am i reading wrong? Swarm host brood lord era?
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On January 19 2017 19:23 covetousrat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2017 19:19 PharaphobiaSC wrote: I like Protoss how it is now, feeling sad and hopeless, exacly the same like Zerg in WoL and HotS :^) Lol Zerg in Hots? Am i reading wrong? Swarm host brood lord era?
And what about thos 2 base robo or twinlight all ins that were that strong when scouting it doesnt matter? Zerg players played Swarm Hosts to counter ur bs gameplays. But the design of the unit back then forced long and boring games. However still it is totally deserved ;p
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On January 19 2017 19:19 PharaphobiaSC wrote: I like Protoss how it is now, feeling sad and hopeless, exacly the same like Zerg in WoL and HotS :^) It may sound strange, but as a protoss i do feel the same. It's kind of a challenge for me, to actually achieve something with a handicapped race.
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slow zealots are useless as well as the other units like adepts without glaives, marines without shield stim, slow lings and melee colossi, nothing wrong.
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On January 19 2017 19:26 insitelol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2017 19:19 PharaphobiaSC wrote: I like Protoss how it is now, feeling sad and hopeless, exacly the same like Zerg in WoL and HotS :^) It may sound strange, but as a protoss i do feel the same. It's kind of a challenge for me, to actually achieve something with a handicapped race.
I like your approach while being surrounded with the most negative community in the gaming
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On January 19 2017 19:19 PharaphobiaSC wrote: I like Protoss how it is now, feeling sad and hopeless, exacly the same like Zerg in WoL and HotS :^) Zerg in WoL AYYY LMAO
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On January 19 2017 19:19 PharaphobiaSC wrote: I like Protoss how it is now, feeling sad and hopeless, exacly the same like Zerg in WoL and HotS :^)
ill assume you never made infestor/bl in wol or swarmhosts in hots
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Why doesn't they buff the production time of the gateways units? I never understood this. In that way, you buff the gateway units without buffing the warpgates units. It gives Protoss a way to defend easier in the early game and they can still use the warpgates in the later stages of the game. But maybe this would break other things. Just curious why they never tested it. Is it because it makes things too complicated?
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On January 19 2017 19:19 PharaphobiaSC wrote: I like Protoss how it is now, feeling sad and hopeless, exacly the same like Zerg in WoL and HotS :^)
from this statement i can see u clearly have no clue of sc2... WoL i just say brudelord infestor...HotS i just say swarm host... but thats kinda normal zerg players always cry even when they´re op as f...
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On January 19 2017 20:13 BartCraft wrote: Why doesn't they buff the production time of the gateways units? I never understood this. In that way, you buff the gateway units without buffing the warpgates units. It gives Protoss a way to defend easier in the early game and they can still use the warpgates in the later stages of the game. But maybe this would break other things. Just curious why they never tested it. Is it because it makes things too complicated?
well i think because basicly the first thing u do is getting warp gates... so buffing the production would only bring u a really small early game buff... but thats not were gateway units struggle... gateway units struggle from mid to late game...
i like the idea with shield buffing sentrys!
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the units are not balanced around movement and spacing. you have to get creative with the use of varied units. for zerg that is zerglings and tech switching especially in low income and chaotic situations. for protoss that's gas army strength and early game defense.
its rarely ever been the case that in straight up engagements that units can trade fairly. mobility units are used together (zerglings, adepts/blink stalkers, marine+marauder+medivac) and force a player to choose one of the many different paths they can take to making sure they don't die to those units alone. mobility units also trade unfairly because of the effort and control required to play against them in open field and even army value.
gateway + robo units can be very strong, but it requires specific practice and is much more effort than simply making one type of unit that works in every situation as an opener or up to the lategame.
I have never liked the engagement speeds of the units in sc2, but it's a virtue to learn to do the best with what you've got in mind.
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You can't give zealots starting extra charge speed.... That will make proxy gateways really powerful against Terran.. Like how will we kite them..? also the only problem imo with protoss right now is you guys aren't really advancing playstyle wise unlike the other races are. But I do think protoss regardlesss should be buffed and I don't think it should be with the Zealot. But rather adding more ground options of dealing with liberators. PvP I know nothing about and PvZ I heard is just eh. But PvT definitely the protoss need something.. and Im a Terran haha
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Protoss buffed? As soon as they nerf Protoss Air Units- Carrier specifically.
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Increasing gateway production rate, reducing warpgate prodution rate, having more upgrades for gateway units to make them more viable later into the game while nerfing robo and stargate are good changes. Buffing storm research is ok on one side, on another HT is already part of broken PvZ lategame and getting them easier wouldn't be good.
So as long as it's accompanied with proper nerfs this would eventually make protoss not such stupidly designed race. But Blizzard wouldn't do it.
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Wonder what it would be like if you removed the power field from pylons and warp prism and instead gave it the nexus. So that you could only warp in units moderately close to your nexus (the range of the field would have to be quite large).
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Gateway got a LOT stronger with LOTV. Not only does the adept is now an extremely efficient core unit, but marauder attack split is an very strong nerf against gateway (guardian shield, light units with 1 native armor). Also, the new overcharge allows protoss to expand much more agressively than before, making eco-based strats where you outproduce your opponent with basic units much stronger.
That being said, the main issue i see with protoss is the overcharge. The over-reliance on this mechanism not only allows very abusive situations for opponents, but limits the strength of the warpgate a lot (because it's the second defensive tool of protoss).
If the adept wasn't a harass unit, if the adept didn't have shade but was much bulkier, both the frontal strenght of gateway armies would be better, and the overcharge could be redesigned into something much more interesting/dominating. Because this would make the adept a much better defensive unit, instead of yet another harass option (even if adept drops would still deal lots of damage to mineral lines).
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United Kingdom20154 Posts
On January 19 2017 19:19 PharaphobiaSC wrote: I like Protoss how it is now, feeling sad and hopeless, exacly the same like Zerg in WoL and HotS :^)
Zerg was pretty great much of the time from the second half of WOL through LOTV
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