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The natural in Maxwell Platform is an absolute nightmare to hold no matter the match-up. The ramps are far away from the town hall, and the collapsible rock towers aren't even clearly a defensive tool. Destroying them and sieging the gas geyser and first few minerals from across the gap seems pretty good as terran.
I have been working on making the natural better and I made sure before submitting that siege tanks could not siege from the outside gap, and they are not able to fire on them. In the updated version of the map I have been working towards making it not possible to siege the geysers either. On the note of natural being a nightmare to hold, I agree I am open to ideas of improving it and would love to hear whatever improves I could make on it.
Probably the worse TLMC finalist ever.
I was just as surprised that my map made it into the finals, but I can see people are open to bashing mappers who are honestly trying to improve. Yes, I am new on the map making scene and its sad to see someone bashing just because some judges liked my map.
If you want to help me improve it shot me ideas and I will try it out I am open to make changes that could help improve the map, and from the games I saw the major hurtle is making the natural more secure so it will go past the first two bases. The game between Snute and Optimus was going good in my opinion, and as noted it was the top and bottom spawns. The middle spawn didn't get shown since most games ended with the natural not even being secure. If anyone has suggestions on how to improve the map than PM me or reply to this.
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On February 27 2017 13:39 Youngrustler wrote:Show nested quote + The natural in Maxwell Platform is an absolute nightmare to hold no matter the match-up. The ramps are far away from the town hall, and the collapsible rock towers aren't even clearly a defensive tool. Destroying them and sieging the gas geyser and first few minerals from across the gap seems pretty good as terran. I have been working on making the natural better and I made sure before submitting that siege tanks could not siege from the outside gap, and they are not able to fire on them. In the updated version of the map I have been working towards making it not possible to siege the geysers either. On the note of natural being a nightmare to hold, I agree I am open to ideas of improving it and would love to hear whatever improves I could make on it. I was just as surprised that my map made it into the finals, but I can see people are open to bashing mappers who are honestly trying to improve. Yes, I am new on the map making scene and its sad to see someone bashing just because some judges liked my map. If you want to help me improve it shot me ideas and I will try it out I am open to make changes that could help improve the map, and from the games I saw the major hurtle is making the natural more secure so it will go past the first two bases. The game between Snute and Optimus was going good in my opinion, and as noted it was the top and bottom spawns. The middle spawn didn't get shown since most games ended with the natural not even being secure. If anyone has suggestions on how to improve the map than PM me or reply to this.
I don't bash mappers, I bash maps. I maintain that Maxwell Platform is probably the worse TLMC finalist map, but I don't have anything against you as a mapmaker. There isn't a mapmaker out there that only make good maps. In TLMC7 Jacky_ submitted both the best map (New Gettysburg), a good one (Frostbite) and a horrendous one (The Ancient Wall).
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I don't bash mappers, I bash maps. I maintain that Maxwell Platform is probably the worse TLMC finalist map, but I don't have anything against you as a mapmaker. There isn't a mapmaker out there that only make good maps. In TLMC7 Jacky_ submitted both the best map (New Gettysburg), a good one (Frostbite) and a horrendous one (The Ancient Wall).
That is fine you are entitled to your opinion, but keep in mind bashing the map is bashing the work they put into it. I like brood war map so I tried to see if it could work in sc2 why not? It is not a new concept that people try to recreate a map they found to be cool, last season we had a "remake" of Cloud Kingdom a WOL map and everyone seemed ok with it, but thats probably because its a sc2 map and its standard. Like I stated before I was just as surprised as many people when they told me the map was a finalist because I knew it would be a bit of a stretch for sc2 since it's not "standard" at all. Anyways I am trying to improve the map I would love to hear any sort of changes you think could help improve the map, and if it is beyond repair than I guess I need to know.
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You'll get thicker skin as you continue in your mapmaking quest
Best to embrace the fact that sometimes you'll make a good map, and sometimes you'll make something that doesn't quite work. I know I have a lot of failures, and I think most who have delved into mapmaking can say the same. Still, you made something that the judges found interesting, so good on you. Look forward to seeing more of your maps.
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You'll get thicker skin as you continue in your mapmaking quest
Best to embrace the fact that sometimes you'll make a good map, and sometimes you'll make something that doesn't quite work. I know I have a lot of failures, and I think most who have delved into mapmaking can say the same. Still, you made something that the judges found interesting, so good on you. Look forward to seeing more of your maps.
Thanks I have just been observing what people have been saying and today I had enough of the comments. I am looking to improve and seeing comments like "worst finalist ever" really is demotivating to read.
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better than best non-finalist ever i guess, if you never make it
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 27 2017 14:43 Youngrustler wrote:Show nested quote +You'll get thicker skin as you continue in your mapmaking quest
Best to embrace the fact that sometimes you'll make a good map, and sometimes you'll make something that doesn't quite work. I know I have a lot of failures, and I think most who have delved into mapmaking can say the same. Still, you made something that the judges found interesting, so good on you. Look forward to seeing more of your maps. Thanks I have just been observing what people have been saying and today I had enough of the comments. I am looking to improve and seeing comments like "worst finalist ever" really is demotivating to read. Well Biome existed....
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On February 27 2017 17:10 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2017 14:43 Youngrustler wrote:You'll get thicker skin as you continue in your mapmaking quest
Best to embrace the fact that sometimes you'll make a good map, and sometimes you'll make something that doesn't quite work. I know I have a lot of failures, and I think most who have delved into mapmaking can say the same. Still, you made something that the judges found interesting, so good on you. Look forward to seeing more of your maps. Thanks I have just been observing what people have been saying and today I had enough of the comments. I am looking to improve and seeing comments like "worst finalist ever" really is demotivating to read. Well Biome existed....
But it looked cooooool.
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can we have one pool where the maps are all macro with 1-2 exceptions(1 rush 1 experimental)
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On February 27 2017 13:59 Youngrustler wrote:Show nested quote +I don't bash mappers, I bash maps. I maintain that Maxwell Platform is probably the worse TLMC finalist map, but I don't have anything against you as a mapmaker. There isn't a mapmaker out there that only make good maps. In TLMC7 Jacky_ submitted both the best map (New Gettysburg), a good one (Frostbite) and a horrendous one (The Ancient Wall). That is fine you are entitled to your opinion, but keep in mind bashing the map is bashing the work they put into it. I like brood war map so I tried to see if it could work in sc2 why not? It is not a new concept that people try to recreate a map they found to be cool, last season we had a "remake" of Cloud Kingdom a WOL map and everyone seemed ok with it, but thats probably because its a sc2 map and its standard. Like I stated before I was just as surprised as many people when they told me the map was a finalist because I knew it would be a bit of a stretch for sc2 since it's not "standard" at all. Anyways I am trying to improve the map I would love to hear any sort of changes you think could help improve the map, and if it is beyond repair than I guess I need to know.
Just remember, if the writers of sharknado developed thick skin to write sharknado 2, you can definitely do the same for mapmaking. I get upset over mapping criticisms from time to time, as some here can easily attest to, but at some point you have to draw a line about how far you're going to take it.
I've filtered through enough crap overtime that I know what's good/decent feedback, what's worthy of "ignore", and what's worth defending. It just takes time. Use the discord channel for venting instead of TL (not saying you are but just for reference).
But just as an example, some people will say "map too big, resize whole thing" while others will say "it's fine, just resize these two bases."
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Believe me I held back on some of the stuff being said because it comes true, but like I said I am willing to try and fix the map whatever way possible. Last night I and a few others had a good discussion on discord so I apericate it, and I believe I think I have found a way to improve the map.
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The only useful maps for ladder and pro play would be:
Akolyte its possible to take three bases becouse of the save inbase natural and the save third infront.
Hwangsan Just very straight forward 1,2,3,4 macro map base layout, nothing special.
Geumgangsan same like Akolyte (a problem might be the forcefields)
Keres Passage On the edge of beeing playable. The map would work, but it has a lot of wide areas and big chokes.
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Sequencer is by far the best. The rest doesn't even compare to it.
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On February 28 2017 00:05 IIEclipseII wrote: The only useful maps for ladder and pro play would be:
Definitely disagree that those would be the only useful maps. Frankly Geumgangsan is one of the least usable ones.
Sequencer is my favorite map in the entire contest.
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Rant no one cares about + Show Spoiler +So sad that barely a few hundred people are interested in being a part of this process (on the 10k solid we see in tournaments stats/viewers).. feels like this is the most important thing (establishing a good map pool .. a better one, a pool that would cover all the potential this rts has, one that would open up gameplay etc.. a pool beyond the ones that are done solely by blizzard's employees that are sub par) .. and no support from those thousands of people who do rant about how bad this or that map is bad/awesome! day in day out = #lazy generation (people who do nothing and curse at people who do try)
If there was a real participation in this.. then perhaps it would make sense to tell blizzard that they are not listening".. lol to what should they be listening? LOL (7 years of this piss poor attitude from all parties = sh it map pool // yes a bad attitude from mapmakers/viewers/players/tournament organizers/pro players/forum admins/workers)
f ck i'm too old, so.. hf .. since fun is all this is about, ..fun for a selected few people who actually get the opportunity to decide and have clearly shown that only networking matters (like in other things in life i admit #sad) ...
having rifkin decide half the maps is as bad as only tl "judges".. but i guess i would vex an eel if i did say so?! oups i did say so, lol.
actually i did say so 50 times already, blizzard said it at Wol retail and i was apparently the only one to hear it: "tournaments will introduce new maps!" cut to (6 years later and a failed game, a failed platform (i say failed from blizzard's point of view)) now, .. and bttv decides what maps should be featured in this process (not choose the maps blizz will put into the ladder.. blizz will always change the ones they choose, it is all rather moot but whatever) ...
i'd add an emote but this is so sad that i'll refrain.
ohhh almost forgot! featuring 1v1 s in tournaments with 19th century observing camera moves is so lazy and counter productive that it makes me understand blizz's disinterest in sc2... sad but i care, so i typed it.
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On February 28 2017 00:07 Ej_ wrote: Sequencer is by far the best. The rest doesn't even compare to it. A majority seems to like Sequencer. I on the other hand find the map too large. I'd cut off one row of highgrounds, cuz I did not enjoy the games I watched tbh.
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I kind of thought that too, when I first saw the map, and to some degree when I watched some games. But I think maybe the map becomes too cutthroat if you do that. Idk. Maybe there's a middle ground somewhere
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My iterations are done.
Hwangsan:
- Vertical third base has been shifted closer to the natural, the natural has been rotated 45 degrees counter-clockwise. - Xel'Naga Watchtowers were moved Diagonally, North West and South East, to now cover the far reaches of the map, as well as a slight sliver of the high middleground. - Made the map slightly more yellow, for namesake. - Sand made less blinding.
Blood Boil
- "Pocket" base philosophy changed from less economy, to less gas but more minerals. - Natural Choke made slightly smaller, and backdoor ramp into natural is now a size 1 ramp. - Pocket "Natural" rocks moved from the main to the ramp towards the natural. - Base met by three down-ramps changed into an 8 gold 2 geyser base. - Xel'Naga Tower position adjusted slightly. - Exposed Fourth Base mineral line rotated 45 degrees. It is still exposed, but not as much as it was previously.
Eremita
- Debris added to front ramp, has 350 hp and 5 armor. - Natural choke made smaller. - Rock Towers added in the middle. - Long rocks under LOS blockers by natural removed. - Coolant Tower added to down-ramp by natural.
Windwaker
- 9th mineral patch in main removed. - Some ramps removed amongst the middle. - 4th base philosophy changed. Vertical 4th has a high mineral income, but little longevity, as well as only one geyser. The opposite 4th, has 10 minerals and 2 gas geysers, for longevity. - Lowground late-game bases have 5 mineral patches, but 3 geysers as a risky base option after the longevity base was taken. - Xel'Naga Rocks added to help defend the vertical base after taking the gold option.
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Russian Federation421 Posts
Uh, guys, I may be really bad at scheduling but wasn't public voting phase supposed to start on March 7?
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United States8476 Posts
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