GSL Super Tournament - Qualifiers Complete
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seopthi
386 Posts
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Olli
Austria24413 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:32 zealotstim wrote: Sweet equal distribution haha terran zerg toss and terran. Honestly the main ones I can think of who are missing are Classic and sOs. Who else was there? Zest as well. | ||
Poopi
France12434 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:02 pvsnp wrote: .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. It depends on the patch tho. At Blizzcon, ByuN vs TY had very good macro games: even if you "doom dropped" you could counter it with tankivacs and it involved a lot of multitasking, which was fun to see, but now TvT is almost only positioning in the most boring way possible. | ||
MalditoKyo
France76 Posts
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Eiltonn
Germany307 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:02 pvsnp wrote: .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. Its really sad because TvT used to be by far the best mirror matchup. Gosh i loved playing TvT in WoL. Ever since HOTS the matchup has been shit tho. | ||
RPR_Tempest
Australia7785 Posts
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RKC
2841 Posts
On March 30 2017 19:50 RPR_Tempest wrote: Serious question. What's so super about this tournament? Nothing, there's no Super | ||
Fango
United Kingdom8749 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:02 pvsnp wrote: .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. I agree that TvT is annoying in the fact that lesser terrans can easily snipe the best ones, only to to to P/Z right after. That beind said, Katowice had some great TvTs with inno, alive, and ty | ||
Heartland
Sweden24561 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8749 Posts
On March 30 2017 09:49 pvsnp wrote: Maru hasn't been playing in much at all lately, because of Jin Air still being a team. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that he hasn't show enough top-level gameplay to justify being placed up with TY and Inno. Also Stats did roflstomp him in SSL, something which never happened to Inno or TY. It was embarrassing to watch, how he played right into Stats's hands both games. Both Inno and TY have done far better against Stats. He also lost to Dark in Super qualifiers yesterday, and basically just doesn't have a good record against top-tier opponents, just like ByuN and unlike both TY and Inno. Without consistently excellent results against the best players, it's hard to justify placing him at the very top. Huh? You said that Maru's isn't as good at TvT compared to TY, Inno, Gumiho etc. I'd say being 9-6 against TY and 5-0 against gumiho is a good indicator that that isn't true. The only basis for saying Maru's weak are his games vs Ryung in GSL where he 100% fucked up (he really should have won that). And his games vs Stats in SSL, were Stats completely outsmarted him in g1 and got lucky as hell in g2, not saying it was all luck, stats did play better but he couldn't have lost that game if he tried (scouting proxy starport that was 3 sec of finishing, oracle getting game changing dmg, stasis ward on cyclones etc) | ||
pvsnp
7676 Posts
Huh? You said that Maru's isn't as good at TvT compared to TY, Inno, Gumiho etc. I'd say being 9-6 against TY and 5-0 against gumiho is a good indicator that that isn't true. The only basis for saying Maru's weak are his games vs Ryung in GSL where he 100% fucked up (he really should have won that). And his games vs Stats in SSL, were Stats completely outsmarted him in g1 and got lucky as hell in g2, not saying it was all luck, stats did play better but he couldn't have lost that game if he tried (scouting proxy starport that was 3 sec of finishing, oracle getting game changing dmg, stasis ward on cyclones etc) Maru in recent offline TvT has defeated ByuN at Gyeonggi and Gumiho in Code S. He's lost to TY at WESG and Ryung in Code S. In SSL qualifiers he beat TY but lost to ByuN. Those are not the results of a top TvT player, though they are not terrible either. I suppose an argument could be made that he is on par with the other top Terrans; I conflated ByuN and Maru somewhat in my previous post. That said, I will still argue that Maru has not shown the superb TvP or TvZ necessary to place him alongside INnoVation or TY. He has played fewer matches than both of them and gotten worse results against top Protoss/Zerg players like Dark or Stats. He has won no tournaments nor have his most recent matches displayed any astonishing return to form. Basically I'm saying there isn't enough evidence across all matchups to say Maru is as good as TY/Inno right now. | ||
FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On March 30 2017 19:50 RPR_Tempest wrote: Serious question. What's so super about this tournament? It's totally super that we're even getting another Korean tournament :p | ||
pvsnp
7676 Posts
Also a random thought just occured to me. Only the top 4 players from GSL Season 1 were seeded into GSL Season 2, unlike the top 8 last year. Could it be possible that the top 4 of this Super Tournament will be seeded into Season 2? Or did Afreeca just decide that 4 is just a much better number than 8? | ||
fishjie
United States1519 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:02 pvsnp wrote: .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. Disagree, TvT is like an exciting chess match. Love the positioning and controlling space with siege tanks. Love the poking and prodding. Had exciting matches such as Inno vs Taeja where inno went mech and taeja went bio. Whereas ZvZ and PvP are mostly boring to watch (exception being SoS stomping hero at IEM for 100k). ZvZ was especially bad back in the day, that one GSL finals with Roro vs Symbol and it was broodlings fighting each other ... whereas Gom tvt was always exciting to me shrug | ||
Elentos
55454 Posts
On April 01 2017 03:26 fishjie wrote: Disagree, TvT is like an exciting chess match. Love the positioning and controlling space with siege tanks. Love the poking and prodding. Had exciting matches such as Inno vs Taeja where inno went mech and taeja went bio. Whereas ZvZ and PvP are mostly boring to watch (exception being SoS stomping hero at IEM for 100k). ZvZ was especially bad back in the day, that one GSL finals with Roro vs Symbol and it was broodlings fighting each other ... whereas Gom tvt was always exciting to me shrug If every piece on the chess board except for the king was a queen, then maybe the current iteration of TvT would perhaps have something in common with chess. On March 31 2017 13:13 pvsnp wrote: The wiki article shows a Bo5 Ro16. There's no group stage? Also a random thought just occured to me. Only the top 4 players from GSL Season 1 were seeded into GSL Season 2, unlike the top 8 last year. Could it be possible that the top 4 of this Super Tournament will be seeded into Season 2? Or did Afreeca just decide that 4 is just a much better number than 8? I assume they went from 8 to 4 because they removed Code A, 4 extra spots up for contention in the qualifiers could help ensure Code S doesn't stagnate too much. | ||
pvsnp
7676 Posts
Disagree, TvT is like an exciting chess match. Love the positioning and controlling space with siege tanks. Love the poking and prodding. Had exciting matches such as Inno vs Taeja where inno went mech and taeja went bio. Whereas ZvZ and PvP are mostly boring to watch (exception being SoS stomping hero at IEM for 100k). ZvZ was especially bad back in the day, that one GSL finals with Roro vs Symbol and it was broodlings fighting each other ... whereas Gom tvt was always exciting to me shrug TaeJa vs INnoVation on Newkirk is still the single greatest game of Starcraft II ever played. No doubt about that. But 2017 TvT is not 2013 TvT. Mech is nonexistent, everyone always goes marine-tank, and whomever lands a doomdrop first wins. Mech vs mech with seeker missiles could be called a chess match. These days TvT is more like Russian Roulette. I assume they went from 8 to 4 because they removed Code A, 4 extra spots up for contention in the qualifiers could help ensure Code S doesn't stagnate too much. That makes sense, I guess. Though players #5 to #8 were TY, herO, INnoVation, and Maru. I don't think anyone expects any of those four to fall in qualifiers. | ||
jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
Racial distribution is a bit off though, as a Zerg player I don't relish the thought of a TvT finals. | ||
seopthi
386 Posts
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Elentos
55454 Posts
On April 01 2017 05:36 pvsnp wrote: That makes sense, I guess. Though players #5 to #8 were TY, herO, INnoVation, and Maru. I don't think anyone expects any of those four to fall in qualifiers. They could end up in the same bracket. | ||
pvsnp
7676 Posts
They could end up in the same bracket. Aren't the brackets seeded by standings? There should be no way for all 4 high-ranked players to be seeded into the same bracket. Maybe 2, but definitely not all 4. Innovation looks fairly unstoppable especially with Terran being to strong in the current meta, Dark could take it all but he has to get through Innovation first which uh, I'm not entirely sure if that's even possible right now. He really just knows how to execute absolutely everything perfectly and his reads are pretty much on a Dark level. Racial distribution is a bit off though, as a Zerg player I don't relish the thought of a TvT finals. INnoVation looked even more unstoppable before GSL and Katowice, and look at who won those. He is one of the favorites, to be sure, but hardly invincible. | ||
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