2017 WCS Challenger North America - Ruling
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crazyc987654321
1 Post
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On April 01 2017 01:19 snowmani wrote: It doesnt make it right but understandable. I don't think anyone is saying that they can't understand the frustration - it's absolutely something that everyone can follow. Most people, however, don't lose their tops when things don't go their way, and they have to go through a frustrating situation. | ||
Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
If so it fits the avilo narrative pretty well in this case lol | ||
SKNielsen1989
174 Posts
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blunderfulguy
United States1412 Posts
On April 01 2017 01:35 crazyc987654321 wrote: Being right about the dude being a cheater doesn't suddenly vindicate you when you have a track record of accusing literally everyone who beats you of cheating. Yup. If every morning I shout at my neighbors and bang on their front door telling them to stay inside, shut their windows, and hide in their basements because there's going to be a massive thunderstorm and tornadoes, even the one day that actually happens doesn't mean the other hundred times were okay or that I get to treat people like garbage on the one day I happened to be correct and spew vile from my mouth at them because they refused to believe me. And it certainly doesn't mean that anyone else should ever believe me from that point on with regards to anything, especially the weather. People who do that sort of thing in public are shunned or possibly even taken to mental health care centers or at the very least reported to the police and fined for disturbing the peace as well as harassment. I thought it would be rather unsurprising when a person who cries wolf every day and grossly violates player conduct guidelines and is known to be offensive to and incite violent behavior towards other players and badmouths nearly every organisation related to Blizzard and StarCraft would be disqualified from an event and, sigh, I honestly expected everyone to understand why. On March 30 2017 14:22 avilo wrote: This is all around bullshit On April 01 2017 03:08 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: If I recall correctly, the boy who cried wolf got eaten by said wolves at the end of the story right? He only got bit by one wolf so far, though I'd say we're a little closer to the happy ending of that classic tale. The wolves get fed without eating the li'l ol' sheep and the townspeople don't have to listen to his drivel anymore, it's so good I can't wait for it to happen irl. <3 | ||
Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On April 01 2017 01:12 Ve5pa wrote: This doesn't even make sense, karma and justice are completely different. He deserves punishment for the way he behaved after he reported the hacking. ESL couldn't act on his complaints at the time and he acted like a little bitch, this is what deserves punishment. The fact ESL couldn't act on his complaints is what drove him to be mad and whilst it is understandable to a degree, they certainly should have the means to act during the tournament, their is no excuse for how he behaved after that and that is why he is being punished. Avilo himself sadly can't seem to see that his behavior after he initially complained is what is being punished regardless of whether he was in the right and was right when reporting the issue. As I have stated before ESL should have the means to act upon such complaints during the tournament, this isn't a one off community ran event/small tournament, this is the first step on the way to the WCS finals. This is basically the first round of the most important global tournament of the year, and the fact decisions can't be made during a tournament is a joke. The fact players aren't vetted before the tournament is a joke. Blizzard's rules are that people's behavior outside of the tournament is also grounds for punishment. | ||
Ve5pa
United Kingdom252 Posts
On April 01 2017 05:07 Doodsmack wrote: Blizzard's rules are that people's behavior outside of the tournament is also grounds for punishment. I agree and that punishment should be applied before a tournament beings, this should be done when players who have applied to play are vetted, but they aren't.... Letting them compete and punishing retroactively would be wrong on the player, his opponents, viewers, fans et al. But this wasn't even the case. Attributing the punishment he received for his behavior during this tournament to his behavior before it is not what happened, he was punished for his behavior towards admins, casters and the general way he behaved during the tournament after he expressed his concerns about his opponent and was told he still had to play. His punishment has absolutely nothing to do with 'frequently accuses players of hacking based on very shoddy reasoning.' | ||
DeadByDawn
United Kingdom476 Posts
The only thing it showed was that Retribution outplayed him at his own Viking+Raven game, and that Avilo needs no evidence other than he lost that the other player is a maphacker. Retribution, aka Nero, may hack at times, but this shows that against Avilo he doesn't need to. And no, if you watch the game it isn't a hard to detect hack, there is not a single suspicious moment in it. Still, neither player should be playing in WCS. | ||
Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On April 01 2017 05:17 Ve5pa wrote: I agree and that punishment should be applied before a tournament beings, this should be done when players who have applied to play are vetted, but they aren't.... Letting them compete and punishing retroactively would be wrong on the player, his opponents, viewers, fans et al. But this wasn't even the case. Attributing the punishment he received for his behavior during this tournament to his behavior before it is not what happened, he was punished for his behavior towards admins, casters and the general way he behaved during the tournament after he expressed his concerns about his opponent and was told he still had to play. His punishment has absolutely nothing to do with 'frequently accuses players of hacking based on very shoddy reasoning.' That's a good point but I'd say his streaming activity should be a contributing factor at least. | ||
xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On April 01 2017 05:25 DeadByDawn wrote: Just watched Ketroc's analysis of a game, Retribution Vs Avilo, that Avilo submitted to him and claimed was maphacking. The only thing it showed was that Retribution outplayed him at his own Viking+Raven game, and that Avilo needs no evidence other than he lost that the other player is a maphacker. Retribution, aka Nero, may hack at times, but this shows that against Avilo he doesn't need to. And no, if you watch the game it isn't a hard to detect hack, there is not a single suspicious moment in it. Still, neither player should be playing in WCS. Wrong. It's one of 10+ games of him build order countering + production tab hack. In over 10 games vs Retribution he will always time his starports as i build mine every single game, over the course of 10+ games. He also never gets build order loss or disadvantage in any game. Just because i won or lost the games vs him means nothing. And ketroc did not even analyze the games - he literally just started fanboying over raven vs raven and was commentating it like a normal game. I should have known better to even bother sending replays of a known hacker to a diamond leaguer. I have many replays of me BEATING Nero, and he is also hacking in those games as well. Nero is not one of those "OBVIOUS" mher in that he very rarely will blatantly look into fog of war or those types of things. The way he abuses his hack is by doing the exact same thing you're doing (mirroring you) and doing it while being slightly ahead from always having a build order advantage (due to the MH). You'll notice same in nero vs Ruff games where the guy will blindly decide whether or not to get turrets, etc. in the opener. If you go raven, he'll either go raven to match you, or he'll play heavy macro since he knows you're playing defense. If you go cloak banshee he'll go raven viking. If you go cyclone he'll build 2 more cyclones than you. Ketroc did zero analysis on the game, and failed to even notice at around 19:30 you can see what i'm describing about him using his production tab hack to mirror and time his production of starports at the exact same time. Both sottorks and Nero did this against me in the most recent WCS qualifiers. One of the games vs Sottorks i build two starports and sottorks immediately queues up two starports as well almost less than one second later. But like i said - unless you have played versus these hackers enough and have spotted these things, it's tough to spot. Ketroc blatantly just started commentating about ravens instead of doing any analysis whatsoever. | ||
showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On April 01 2017 10:03 avilo wrote: Wrong. It's one of 10+ games of him build order countering + production tab hack. In over 10 games vs Retribution he will always time his starports as i build mine every single game, over the course of 10+ games. He also never gets build order loss or disadvantage in any game. Just because i won or lost the games vs him means nothing. And ketroc did not even analyze the games - he literally just started fanboying over raven vs raven and was commentating it like a normal game. I should have known better to even bother sending replays of a known hacker to a diamond leaguer. I have many replays of me BEATING Nero, and he is also hacking in those games as well. Nero is not one of those "OBVIOUS" mher in that he very rarely will blatantly look into fog of war or those types of things. The way he abuses his hack is by doing the exact same thing you're doing (mirroring you) and doing it while being slightly ahead from always having a build order advantage (due to the MH). You'll notice same in nero vs Ruff games where the guy will blindly decide whether or not to get turrets, etc. in the opener. If you go raven, he'll either go raven to match you, or he'll play heavy macro since he knows you're playing defense. If you go cloak banshee he'll go raven viking. If you go cyclone he'll build 2 more cyclones than you. Ketroc did zero analysis on the game, and failed to even notice at around 19:30 you can see what i'm describing about him using his production tab hack to mirror and time his production of starports at the exact same time. Both sottorks and Nero did this against me in the most recent WCS qualifiers. One of the games vs Sottorks i build two starports and sottorks immediately queues up two starports as well almost less than one second later. But like i said - unless you have played versus these hackers enough and have spotted these things, it's tough to spot. Ketroc blatantly just started commentating about ravens instead of doing any analysis whatsoever. Ahhh yes the "Information Dump" defense. Give someone 10 plus maps to "prove" your claim and then when you're proven wrong, claim that they used the wrong map, that way you can NEVER be wrong. Or when they do look at them all claim they missed one minute and irrelevant detail at "Time point x of map y" to vainly attempt to render their whole argument invalid. | ||
avilo
United States4100 Posts
On April 01 2017 10:13 showstealer1829 wrote: Ahhh yes the "Information Dump" defense. Give someone 10 plus maps to "prove" your claim and then when you're proven wrong, claim that they used the wrong map, that way you can NEVER be wrong. Or when they do look at them all claim they missed one minute and irrelevant detail at "Time point x of map y" to vainly attempt to render their whole argument invalid. I haven't been proven wrong? I was proven right? Nero is a 100% confirmed known hacker. Saying otherwise is absolutely retarded in all respects. Also btw Blizzard's official statement is either a flat out lie or they were incompetent in making it because as many have stated in this thread, Nero prob used VPN or other ways to mask that he was the person on his account. It was absolutely him every time - the hotkeys of the games match up. | ||
showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On April 01 2017 10:17 avilo wrote: I haven't been proven wrong? I was proven right? Nero is a 100% confirmed known hacker. Saying otherwise is absolutely retarded in all respects. Also btw Blizzard's official statement is either a flat out lie or they were incompetent in making it because as many have stated in this thread, Nero prob used VPN or other ways to mask that he was the person on his account. It was absolutely him every time - the hotkeys of the games match up. I rest my case. It's always something. If people look at the replays and find nothing it's "time point x on map y" to prove you're right and they're wrong. If the investigation says "X player is not a hacker" it's "Well they probably use VPN to mask themselves" to prove you're right and they're wrong. If you ever lose a game it's not because "I'm fucking terrible at the game and I play a shit style" it's "the game is broken" or "This guy hacks" to prove you're right and they're wrong Meanwhile you continue to happily milk deluded fanboys out of their pocket money because getting better at the game might actually take real work and dedication. Does that make you feel like a good man? Does that make you feel important? Do you have any self awareness whatsoever? Or has the avilo "character" you play finally grown to the point where you've lost all grip on reality? | ||
AxiomBlurr
786 Posts
1) "I avilo, have accused incorrectly too many players of hacking." 2) "I avilo, have too often in the past refused to own up to my own mistakes and failures." 3) "I avilo, have never been able to compete at the highest levels in SC2 and am predictable in my playstyle. " (This is important as A - the vast majority of players you have accused of hacking in the past, KNOW HOW YOU PLAY. B - Your lack of humility in stating your arguments is detrimental to the credibility of your stance). 4) "I avilo, have been disrespectful towards others players and dismissed their skills at the game too often." 5) "I avilo, will in the future try to be more honest and respectful. I will aim to conduct myself in a more adult manner with the community, the casters, the tournament admins and the fans of the game in general." 6) "I avilo, will stop crying wolf." 7) "I avilo am not special and thus am subject to the same rules and guidelines as participants in any given tournament." Until you testify to this or something like it, no one of any rational/impartial standing will ever take you seriously. I am sorry, this is just the truth. Goodluck and Have Fun. | ||
-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On April 01 2017 10:17 avilo wrote: I haven't been proven wrong? I was proven right? Nero is a 100% confirmed known hacker. Saying otherwise is absolutely retarded in all respects. Also btw Blizzard's official statement is either a flat out lie or they were incompetent in making it because as many have stated in this thread, Nero prob used VPN or other ways to mask that he was the person on his account. It was absolutely him every time - the hotkeys of the games match up. Instead of making claims, substantiate them with evidence so people can take you seriously. As I pointed out in the other thread, the chances you played multiple hackers in the past month are incredibly low, especially at your higher MMR rating. Most of the people who have the latest working hacks are not top end players, and probably wouldn't even be masters level. Furthermore, there is not even a functioning production tab hack with the same functionality as the ones in the past as of right now; only private map hacks. So to even claim such a thing is clearly based on some emotional issues in regards to this topic, or losing, or being banned, or whatever. | ||
Ve5pa
United Kingdom252 Posts
Obviously people stream snipe him, probably to get some sort of recognition or e-fame or just simply to get a reaction out of him, he rises to the bait all to often as we all know. It's obviously pretty easy to do this as i recall watching Yo-Go from the French streaming network O'Gaming snipe him like 3 days in a row, probably because the French audience would think it was funny. Needless to say Avilo won, Yo-Go's massive ping can't have helped though but as an excersie in showing how easy it was so snipe Avilo it proved to be quite useful. His own antics on stream does make him a target for stream snipers and if people were going to hack, then who better to do it against, someone who you are guaranteed to get a reaction from on stream so the hacker could just sit back and laugh. As a result he is probably a lot more likely to face snipers or even hackers than other people of a similar mmr. Also worth noting that he does insta quit a lot of games so as not to have to play a lot of these people, thus losing mmr in the process. He managed to maintain GM level in HotS whilst insta quitting all games vs Protoss. Still makes me laugh to be honest. | ||
showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
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snowmani
Austria4 Posts
What i got out of the thread so far is that people dont like Avilo and pointing out that he cried wolf to many times. But jeah i am only a voice in the aether... | ||
fx9
117 Posts
That's just the law of average in the working. And that doesn't vindicate the 999 of the times Avilo is wrong in his accusations and being a real douchebag on top of that. | ||
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