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On June 22 2017 13:37 TheHumanLife wrote:Show nested quote +Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world To be honest, they did not prove enough they are top 10 in the world in my perspective. Foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter. From what I saw, I am pretty sure Neeb and Serral seemed the 2 best foreigner right now and can be even in top 20 in the world. From my perspective, these players are strong enough to be in current world top 10, (no rank) Terran: ByuN, INnoVation, TY, Maru, GuMiho Zerg: soO, Dark Protoss: Stats, herO and also there are more players like ByuL, Solar, Rogue, and many other great Korean terran and protoss who can be called 'top 10' if Neeb and Serral can be called 'top 10' as well. I honestly think Neeb and Serral need much more proof to be known as better than these players... And again, foreigners always over hype their players every single year, and getting disappointed in most of the premier offline events including blizzcon in vs Korean players. But, I believe Neeb and Serral are young and have more potential than any other foreigners before against the Korean players. And since there are not much gap between top Koreans and top foreigners in zerg and protoss, I think Neeb and Serral maybe will have a good chance to prove someday.
" and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter." Neeb winning Kespa Cup doesnt prove nothing?? Only foreigner to win the Triple Crown.... And that says a lot, since Neeb has competed in very few Korean champs...
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On June 22 2017 13:15 sharkie wrote: "The hype is real" and then we get a no hype post summing up the tournament? :p
Agreed
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On June 22 2017 14:18 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily.
Its not about the result, its about the skill level
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On June 22 2017 22:38 Locutos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 14:18 ParksonVN wrote:On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily. Its not about the result, its about the skill level
Have you seen IEM Katowice ?
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On June 23 2017 00:47 DieuCure wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 22:38 Locutos wrote:On June 22 2017 14:18 ParksonVN wrote:On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily. Its not about the result, its about the skill level Have you seen IEM Katowice ?
Neeb was on a slump back then... His current skill level is much higher
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On June 23 2017 02:10 Locutos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2017 00:47 DieuCure wrote:On June 22 2017 22:38 Locutos wrote:On June 22 2017 14:18 ParksonVN wrote:On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily. Its not about the result, its about the skill level Have you seen IEM Katowice ? Neeb was on a slump back then... His current skill level is much higher And Serral also improving after getting out of high school.
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" and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter." Neeb winning Kespa Cup doesnt prove nothing?? Only foreigner to win the Triple Crown.... And that says a lot, since Neeb has competed in very few Korean champs...
To be honest, from what I heard, the most of Korean pros interviewed that they did not practice much or at all before the Kespa Cup, since they were very exhausting of mad schedule in 2016, herO said he didn't practice for a while, and Solar said he just wanted to enjoy the Kespa cup and have some rest for the last part of the year or preparing blizzcon. And do you know how many Korean players are there who have won a single tournament in Korea? There are plenty of them.
And also, winning two foreigner events does not make someone to top 10 in the world. Even, Code S mediocre player TRUE at that time, had One Crown in WCS. Right now, TRUE even failed to qualify in GSL code S s1 this year. (eliminated by KeeN). And he is currently in slump. Neeb is going for GSL s3 qualifier soon, so we are about to find out.
Its not about the result, its about the skill level
and how do you determine the world top 10 skill level without result? unless you have almost same skill level as pro to have foresight about someone's skill level. GSL is pretty tough, even top 5 players can fall in Ro32 I know. But from 2017, no foreigners have shown impressive result against Koreans (even Neeb and Serral) Neeb was in slump in early 2017, but that is the fact so far. And honestly, there is no true top 10 in sc2 btw, since there are too many top level players right now and it is meaningless to say who is top 10 or not in sc2. But I don't see that there are less than 10 Korean players who has same skill or better than Neeb and Serral currently.
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On June 23 2017 04:26 TheHumanLife wrote:Show nested quote +" and then getting disappointed in blizzcon, IEM, and any other offline premier tournament that Koreans enter." Neeb winning Kespa Cup doesnt prove nothing?? Only foreigner to win the Triple Crown.... And that says a lot, since Neeb has competed in very few Korean champs... To be honest, from what I heard, the most of Korean pros interviewed that they did not practice much or at all before the Kespa Cup, since they were very exhausting of mad schedule in 2016, herO said he didn't practice for a while, and Solar said he just wanted to enjoy the Kespa cup and have some rest for the last part of the year or preparing blizzcon. And do you know how many Korean players are there who have won a single tournament in Korea? There are plenty of them. I'm not sure I believe that.
Winning the Kespa Cup would have earned herO ~$28,000 ($18,100 for the Kespa cup and $10,000 for making the Global Playoffs.
Solar had the Cross Finals on September 25th then turned around and played the Kespa cup on the 29th. He couldn't practice for 4 more days? He had basically only had to practice against Protoss.
Both Classic and Patience were playing for a spot at the Global Playoffs and a minimum of $10,000 though I guess Patience technically secured that when he got out of his group and Classic didn't, so his motivation could have flagged at that point.
TY had already punched his ticket to the Global Playoffs but he didn't want to get that failing to win tournaments monkey off his back?
Stats had finally won a tournament when he won the first cross finals earlier that year, but I'm sure he would have liked to win something a little more prestigious than a 2-round invitational.
Maybe all those players didn't take it seriously despite having something to play for. It is possible. They are young and young people do dumb things. But the "I didn't practice very hard" card feels like an attempt to discredit Neeb's performance.
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I'm not sure I believe that.
Winning the Kespa Cup would have earned herO ~$28,000 ($18,100 for the Kespa cup and $10,000 for making the Global Playoffs.
Solar had the Cross Finals on September 25th then turned around and played the Kespa cup on the 29th. He couldn't practice for 4 more days? He had basically only had to practice against Protoss.
Both Classic and Patience were playing for a spot at the Global Playoffs and a minimum of $10,000 though I guess Patience technically secured that when he got out of his group and Classic didn't, so his motivation could have flagged at that point.
TY had already punched his ticket to the Global Playoffs but he didn't want to get that failing to win tournaments monkey off his back?
Stats had finally won a tournament when he won the first cross finals earlier that year, but I'm sure he would have liked to win something a little more prestigious than a 2-round invitational.
Maybe all those players didn't take it seriously despite having something to play for. It is possible. They are young and young people do dumb things. But the "I didn't practice very hard" card feels like an attempt to discredit Neeb's performance.
I am not trying to discredit Neeb's performance here. herO and Solar already said that through interview right before group stage starts. It has nothing to do with Neeb's performances. Korean players had very tiring schedules in 2016, and many of them wanted some rest, go to vacation and practice lesser in Kespa Cup than any SSL, GSL tournaments and team proleague (SPL). But, I am sure Classic and Patience tried hard in Kespa cup for blizzcon seed, but through what I read in Korean community at that time I heard many players are having rest and going vacation even right before Kespa cup starts. I am just saying truth.
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On June 23 2017 11:49 JAG.war wrote: Spoilers make me sad. cheer up friend, we all knew neeb was the only one who had a chance to win anyways
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On June 22 2017 19:30 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 19:16 RealReality86 wrote:On June 22 2017 19:06 Charoisaur wrote:On June 22 2017 18:57 DieuCure wrote:On June 22 2017 14:35 sharkie wrote:On June 22 2017 14:10 RxMidnight wrote:On June 22 2017 09:12 Shellshock wrote: where does Neeb rank all time among foreigners now? Stephano and Naniwa are the only ones ahead of him now. Neeb's ability to consistently close things out and take the gold at big tournaments sets him apart from the likes of Snute and Scarlett. I respect stephano and naniwa a lot but Neeb won a Korean tournament in Korea. How are these two above him? A tournament where Trap was in finals By beating TY and Solar. But I agree that a single tournament run doesn't compare to the longevity that Naniwa and Stephano had. I'd rank Neeb at #3 too. Maybe equal with Huk, hard to say. A single tournament no one but a Korean has got to within like 8 players or so of winning in 20 years of sc:bw/sc2. None of them will ever come close to a triple if even a double crown either so neeb has to play good for what another 4 months then hes automatically rated better? Why don't we list off the players Stephano and Nani had to beat in there runs and see how they match up hmm? Don't get me wrong, the Kespa Cup was by far the biggest achievement any foreigner has ever done. But Stephano and Naniwa have multiple years of consistently beating koreans and getting to multiple premier finals in the process. I don't rate Neeb's WCS wins very high for obvious reasons.
Lol he won when the skill level was a joke and even when he did win he beat sub par koreans at best (Alicia Lucky) and lost to any who could play at the time (MVP Squirtle). Once that scrub roach max was gone he faded into oblivion. Actually when he lost to MVP MVP was pretty terrible and that was his last premier.
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I think the highest you could rate Neeb right now is Ro16 Code S.
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On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world
lol this is why the region locking is so stupid. you are blowing things way out of perspective because there isn't a korean to stomp foreign hopes back to reality. neeb is legit as he did win a korean tourney in the past, but he is not that good. him winning a non korean region locked tourney is good, but it doesn't put him in the top 10. competing in the gsl and advancing to the finals puts you in the top 10.
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Quite exciting WCS overall Not regretting staying up to morning for the games
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On June 23 2017 02:10 Locutos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2017 00:47 DieuCure wrote:On June 22 2017 22:38 Locutos wrote:On June 22 2017 14:18 ParksonVN wrote:On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily. Its not about the result, its about the skill level Have you seen IEM Katowice ? Neeb was on a slump back then... His current skill level is much higher
Ye maybe he can barely wins against Jjakji now, which is ro32 player.
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On June 23 2017 18:32 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world lol this is why the region locking is so stupid. you are blowing things way out of perspective because there isn't a korean to stomp foreign hopes back to reality. neeb is legit as he did win a korean tourney in the past, but he is not that good. him winning a non korean region locked tourney is good, but it doesn't put him in the top 10. competing in the gsl and advancing to the finals puts you in the top 10.
He will do it
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I'm sorry but there's no way to justify Neeb and Serral being top 10. Compare them to the foreigners that compete in Korea. Remeber Scarlett and Major both failed to get past GSL ro32.
Neeb trades maps evenly with Major (every series they've played this year has gone to final map), and tends to lose to Scarlett (he's 7-12 against her in 2017).
Serral has only played Scarlett and Major once this year so it's hard to compare. But he beat Scarlett 2-0 which is good, however Major was running circles around him on every map in their series.
On June 22 2017 22:38 Locutos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 14:18 ParksonVN wrote:On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily. Its not about the result, its about the skill level
You can't compare skill level based of an isolated tournament like that. Any two players that are evenly matched can show games that are interesting and appear "high level". For example, if there were no Koreans at Katowice we could have ended up with a Serral-Neeb finals back then, and everyone would have been saying they're top 10 because of it.
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+ PvP meta isnt as good for him as she was when he won kespa cup
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On June 23 2017 21:20 Fango wrote:I'm sorry but there's no way to justify Neeb and Serral being top 10. Compare them to the foreigners that compete in Korea. Remeber Scarlett and Major both failed to get past GSL ro32. Neeb trades maps evenly with Major (every series they've played this year has gone to final map), and tends to lose to Scarlett (he's 7-12 against her in 2017). Serral has only played Scarlett and Major once this year so it's hard to compare. But he beat Scarlett 2-0 which is good, however Major was running circles around him on every map in their series. Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 22:38 Locutos wrote:On June 22 2017 14:18 ParksonVN wrote:On June 22 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote: Neeb and Serral are Tier 1 among korean now, no doubt about that, they are surely in top 10 world lol, 2 players stomping a non-Korean tournament is enough for you to say they are in top 10 ? I can list at least 10 Korean that able to outplay either of these 2 easily. Its not about the result, its about the skill level You can't compare skill level based of an isolated tournament like that. Any two players that are evenly matched can show games that are interesting and appear "high level". For example, if there were no Koreans at Katowice we could have ended up with a Serral-Neeb finals back then, and everyone would have been saying they're top 10 because of it. Yeah, basically this exactly. WCS Circuit tourneys lack the frame of reference for anyone to make sweeping assertions like "Serral and Neeb are now top 10 no doubt." Even if a statement like that were true (pretty damn unlikely, btw) Jonkoping is a shitty way to justify it, because there weren't any top Koreans there.
If (and only if) Neeb beats TY/INnoVation in a Bo5 (instead of MajOr) or Dark/soO in a Bo7 (instead of Serral) then we can start talking about how he is equal to top-tier Koreans.
Until then all this is just baseless speculation.
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