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Germany3367 Posts
On July 09 2017 22:53 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2017 22:09 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.
Because this worked out so well in Fast Lane I like the mock draft
I have faith that Classic might finally turn that losing streak against Maru around. Eventually...
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I like that you thought about potential picks, but usually it seems like the players don't put in much thought at all :D SSL will be great as always, after group C (GSL) we probably will have a new UWC btw! So get hyped for that as well ^^
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And for the third time this year, INnoVation has started his GSL run dragging an enormous hype train behind him. Hailed as the best player in the world (again), displaying amazing games (again), and seemingly invincible (again), Skynet is hoping there's no John Connor to interfere with the extermination of humanity this time around.
Third time's the charm?
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On July 09 2017 23:06 TheOneAboveU wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2017 22:53 Elentos wrote:On July 09 2017 22:09 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.
Because this worked out so well in Fast Lane I like the mock draft I have faith that Classic might finally turn that losing streak against Maru around. Eventually...
Is Classic is the kind of player to replicate the ridiculousness of Maru vs Dear though? After Maru 2-0'd him twice in fast lane
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36659 Posts
On July 10 2017 01:20 pvsnp wrote: And for the third time this year, INnoVation has started his GSL run dragging an enormous hype train behind him. Hailed as the best player in the world (again), displaying amazing games (again), and seemingly invincible (again), Skynet is hoping there's no John Connor to interfere with the extermination of humanity this time around.
Third time's the charm? INno needs to fix his Achille's Heel first in order to reign over as the best player in the world... TvTvTvTvTvTvT...
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On July 10 2017 07:57 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2017 01:20 pvsnp wrote: And for the third time this year, INnoVation has started his GSL run dragging an enormous hype train behind him. Hailed as the best player in the world (again), displaying amazing games (again), and seemingly invincible (again), Skynet is hoping there's no John Connor to interfere with the extermination of humanity this time around.
Third time's the charm? INno needs to fix his Achille's Heel first in order to reign over as the best player in the world... TvTvTvTvTvTvT... Well he said that he improved, so maybe it's good enough now
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On July 10 2017 08:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2017 07:57 Seeker wrote:On July 10 2017 01:20 pvsnp wrote: And for the third time this year, INnoVation has started his GSL run dragging an enormous hype train behind him. Hailed as the best player in the world (again), displaying amazing games (again), and seemingly invincible (again), Skynet is hoping there's no John Connor to interfere with the extermination of humanity this time around.
Third time's the charm? INno needs to fix his Achille's Heel first in order to reign over as the best player in the world... TvTvTvTvTvTvT... Well he said that he improved, so maybe it's good enough now He said that his TvT was better but still not great. Hoping he will defeat aLive in SSL tomorrow, if he can do that (consistently) he should be more or less safe in TvT.
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Germany3367 Posts
On July 10 2017 02:20 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2017 23:06 TheOneAboveU wrote:On July 09 2017 22:53 Elentos wrote:On July 09 2017 22:09 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.
Because this worked out so well in Fast Lane I like the mock draft I have faith that Classic might finally turn that losing streak against Maru around. Eventually... Is Classic is the kind of player to replicate the ridiculousness of Maru vs Dear though? After Maru 2-0'd him twice in fast lane Well, looking at the results he did indeed take Dear as an example. Wonky day overall in SSL Premier.
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On July 10 2017 21:37 TheOneAboveU wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2017 02:20 Fango wrote:On July 09 2017 23:06 TheOneAboveU wrote:On July 09 2017 22:53 Elentos wrote:On July 09 2017 22:09 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.
Because this worked out so well in Fast Lane I like the mock draft I have faith that Classic might finally turn that losing streak against Maru around. Eventually... Is Classic is the kind of player to replicate the ridiculousness of Maru vs Dear though? After Maru 2-0'd him twice in fast lane Well, looking at the results he did indeed take Dear as an example. Wonky day overall in SSL Premier. Wonky day for sure, especially those aLive vs Inno games. On the plus side Inno won, albeit through cheese. Hoping the Machine can continue his rampage through SSL and GSL (though I'm sure the other players will do their best to shunt him into the Group of Death for the third time in a row). And IEM Shanghai, too.
I would love for SC2 to finally witness the Birth of a Bonjwa.
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I bet even if Inno wins SSL and GSL there still will be people arguing otherwise :D
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United States1552 Posts
On July 11 2017 05:39 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2017 21:37 TheOneAboveU wrote:On July 10 2017 02:20 Fango wrote:On July 09 2017 23:06 TheOneAboveU wrote:On July 09 2017 22:53 Elentos wrote:On July 09 2017 22:09 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.
Because this worked out so well in Fast Lane I like the mock draft I have faith that Classic might finally turn that losing streak against Maru around. Eventually... Is Classic is the kind of player to replicate the ridiculousness of Maru vs Dear though? After Maru 2-0'd him twice in fast lane Well, looking at the results he did indeed take Dear as an example. Wonky day overall in SSL Premier. Wonky day for sure, especially those aLive vs Inno games. On the plus side Inno won, albeit through cheese. Hoping the Machine can continue his rampage through SSL and GSL (though I'm sure the other players will do their best to shunt him into the Group of Death for the third time in a row). And IEM Shanghai, too. I would love for SC2 to finally witness the Birth of a Bonjwa.
You're going to give wax an aneurysm and me a severe neck cramp if you keep throwing that word around.
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Finland855 Posts
On July 11 2017 06:44 The_Red_Viper wrote: I bet even if Inno wins SSL and GSL there still will be people arguing otherwise :D
If Inno wins both SSL and GSL I'm willing to bet even the grognardiest writers will agree that he's the best player + Show Spoiler +
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That addition of "of LOTV" would most likely be unnecessary. I mean there has to be a point where people recognize that the body of work/success at the highest lvl of play (which is korea) is enough to call somebody the best. About "bonjwa", well it really doesn't matter. The word lost all it's meaning, but winning SSL then GSL and SSL would certainly be up there with the most dominating periods of someone in sc2 ever. That's good enough for me already
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United States1552 Posts
On July 11 2017 07:25 The_Red_Viper wrote: That addition of "of LOTV" would most likely be unnecessary. I mean there has to be a point where people recognize that the body of work/success at the highest lvl of play (which is korea) is enough to call somebody the best. About "bonjwa", well it really doesn't matter. The word lost all it's meaning, but winning SSL then GSL and SSL would certainly be up there with the most dominating periods of someone in sc2 ever. That's good enough for me already
A word doesn't lose meaning just because you decide it does. INnoVation is one of most dominant players in Starcraft 2 history, but there will never be another bonjwa. People should try to come up with some creative ways to praise him instead of just defaulting to a title that isn't even applicable. If I can write a fairly original 1k word article about Inno in a half hour when everyone has been saying the exact same thing about him for four years, I think everyone can manage a sentence or two here and there.
And I don't mean to word that as a personal attack on you because I think you understand what I'm trying to say. All narratives in this game are completely prefabricated. Be it the community or writer's like myself, we are the ones that write Starcraft's history, not the players. With that in mind, let's have a little respect for the legitimate bonjwas who came before INnoVation, keep things in persepctive, and not turn him into something it's impossible to be.
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So you are saying no matter what happens, there cannot be a bonjwa in sc2? I am simply saying i don't care for the term because it's just that. A term. If you want to call someone bonjwa if he dominates the scene or if you wanna describe it otherwise, it's not all that important. Well i don't think i used the word bonjwa here to describe him Still confused why you deny anyone to even have the chance to live up to the title (whatever that even means at this point)
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United States1552 Posts
On July 11 2017 07:47 The_Red_Viper wrote:So you are saying no matter what happens, there cannot be a bonjwa in sc2? I am simply saying i don't care for the term because it's just that. A term. If you want to call someone bonjwa if he dominates the scene or if you wanna describe it otherwise, it's not all that important. Well i don't think i used the word bonjwa here to describe him Still confused why you deny anyone to even have the chance to live up to the title (whatever that even means at this point)
I was fortunate enough to read a really well thought out article by (I think) wax (which of course I can't find) that went into this exact subject in great detail.
I forget most of the article (curse my terrible memory), but what I took from it was the the term bonjwa had a real cultural significance and came to be at a very specific period in time (regarding the relationship between Korean culture and esports). When I say that there won't be another bonjwa, I don't mean that there won't be another truly dominant player, merely that the circumstances by which a player can transcend to bonjwa won't be replicated in the modern era of Starcraft 2.
I also think it's silly to quibble over the word in general. Maybe it's just the writer in me, but there has to be a more accurate way to describe INnoVation than a recycled term no one (maybe even myself) understands or can agree upon.
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I mean i don't know where the term acatly stemmed from, but at the end of the day it's just a word describing player who dominate the scene. What "dominating" means, that's probably up to discussion. But i think it's a bit silly to argue you are only allowed to use it when the there is full moon in the year of the ape. It's really just a word. Why people want to use it? Well it has history in starcraft and it quite frankly sounds nice. If it was about me i would define quite clear criteria, but at this point some people argue Mvp was a bonjwa, others say it could be applied to even more people in sc2, some deny the possibility of using it ever for anyone in sc2, etc. It's a mess and i don't care enough about the term tbh. With that being said, it's fun to imagine a scenario where we get a real dominant player, Innovation is quite clearly the obvious choice. Defending the SSL title alone would be really nice, winning the GSL at the same time would be incredibly huge. I hope it happens.
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On July 11 2017 08:07 mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2017 07:47 The_Red_Viper wrote:So you are saying no matter what happens, there cannot be a bonjwa in sc2? I am simply saying i don't care for the term because it's just that. A term. If you want to call someone bonjwa if he dominates the scene or if you wanna describe it otherwise, it's not all that important. Well i don't think i used the word bonjwa here to describe him Still confused why you deny anyone to even have the chance to live up to the title (whatever that even means at this point) I was fortunate enough to read a really well thought out article by (I think) wax (which of course I can't find) that went into this exact subject in great detail. I forget most of the article (curse my terrible memory), but what I took from it was the the term bonjwa had a real cultural significance and came to be at a very specific period in time (regarding the relationship between Korean culture and esports). When I say that there won't be another bonjwa, I don't mean that there won't be another truly dominant player, merely that the circumstances by which a player can transcend to bonjwa won't be replicated in the modern era of Starcraft 2. I also think it's silly to quibble over the word in general. Maybe it's just the writer in me, but there has to be a more accurate way to describe INnoVation than a recycled term no one (maybe even myself) understands or can agree upon. It's certainly possible that "본좌" as a Korean first-person pronoun will never again be applied to any player in Starcraft 2 (or even Brood War), no matter how dominant they become, simply because the era for that term has passed, just like the term "horseless carriage" is no longer used to refer to automobiles (and even that term is rare, it's just "car" now).
That being said, "bonjwa" as an English loanword from "본좌" has been generalized and culturally mutated to the point where I would argue it is safe to use for any sufficiently dominant player that might arise at some future time.
It was in the latter context that I (and most everybody who is not native Korean) use the term "bonjwa," and that being the case I don't see the problem with using it as such, any more than I see any problem with using the hundreds of other loanwords that have crept into the (Modern) English language over the centuries.
I cannot imagine that people don't realize that there are (major) differences in the way progamers are viewed by Korean and foreign audiences. Should we call INnoVation "Bread-Shin-Hyung" instead of "The Machine" or "Lü Bu", as the Chinese refer to him? Perhaps Roman transliterations themselves are too far of a leap, and we must stick to 빵신형 and 呂布 instead?
That being the case, were INnoVation display such dominance to the degree that he wins SSL Season 2, GSL Season 3, and Blizzcon (back-to-back SSL champion, GSL prestige, and Blizzcon publicity), I personally would be confident in making the argument that he is in fact the first bonjwa of Starcraft 2, even if the Koreans would never call him such.
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On July 09 2017 22:53 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2017 22:09 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: and Classic goes up against Maru, who looks very beatable after losing his first match against Dear.
Because this worked out so well in Fast Lane I like the mock draft lol
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On July 10 2017 01:20 pvsnp wrote:And for the third TIME this year, INnoVation Has started his GSL run dragging an enormous hype train behind him. Hailed as the Best player in the world (again), displaying amazing games (again), and seemingly invincible (again), Skynet is hoping there's no John Connor to interfere with the extermination of humans ty this TIME around. Third TIME's the charm?
INno, plsss
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