On September 27 2017 19:42 LongShot27 wrote:
Get over it?
Get over it?
"If all men were created equal there would be no reason to declare it." (your current signature)
= cyberbullying?
Forum Index > SC2 General |
fluidrone
France1478 Posts
On September 27 2017 19:42 LongShot27 wrote: Get over it? "If all men were created equal there would be no reason to declare it." (your current signature) = cyberbullying? | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On September 27 2017 18:06 fluidrone wrote: Cyber-bullying is bullying. "People should get over it, develop a thicker skin" < that is cyber-bullying/bullying. In frogland we actively punish people who have this kind of "fun", and while i know that repression is sub par as such, anyone who says repression shouldn't happen is part of the problem. The real problem is that people want to belong, they want or actually need to use those dangerous avenues. Lets agree that when people get hurt they will hurt in return. Lets agree that if you help a stranger he will in turn pass it forward. No? Saying people are 'too sensitive" is bullying, parents do it everyday, teachers .. friends ..colleagues... Rising against this is the solution, countering over and over the stupid rational that we should all be the same, all be strong all be ready to hurt others in order to feel better ourselves.. opposing bullies is the solution. When you can do this (fight the bully) , you will feel it, it will be your time to act humanely (to act with consideration for more than yourself and your direct environment) and many will not do it out of fear lazyness self centrism direct loss (like getting fired or hurt physically or made fun of by dozens of people in a chat.. there is no difference). That is the issue: people who can wont and they become people who cant that go increase the numbers of the bully army. I mean look at voting polls, people have no interest in politics and let the "chips fall where they may" every day! That is a clear sign of apathy/sleuth. People take for granted liberties they think they have (stuff loads of other people actually fought and died for, that are considered "normal", something you don't have to consistently go back to defend! which is ludicrous sleuth on their part), and it is all dissolving and drowning in a a sea of: "you can find everything and everyone on internet" it is all there 'ripped for the kill"... It is imperative to fight for a better place everywhere, every day, not just when it suits our own individual back yard. ps: if you are a dumb f ck cyberbully / bully in real life, we are coming for you. You will recognize us at once when we will confront you, we will offer to help you while refuting any "bs/hate/humor" you might come at us with, with no sort of confrontation against you just a desire to make you come to terms with your problem.. ..when this happens, do recognize that you need help and make the change happen, or be ready for the come uppers that such a vile attitude yields. # bullies need love too, so they can pass it forward I haven't laughed so long for a every long time. Thanks for the laughs. Lets agree that when people get hurt they will hurt in return. Lets agree that if you help a stranger he will in turn pass it forward. Let's not. | ||
fluidrone
France1478 Posts
On September 27 2017 20:00 deacon.frost wrote: Show nested quote + On September 27 2017 18:06 fluidrone wrote: Cyber-bullying is bullying. "People should get over it, develop a thicker skin" < that is cyber-bullying/bullying. In frogland we actively punish people who have this kind of "fun", and while i know that repression is sub par as such, anyone who says repression shouldn't happen is part of the problem. The real problem is that people want to belong, they want or actually need to use those dangerous avenues. Lets agree that when people get hurt they will hurt in return. Lets agree that if you help a stranger he will in turn pass it forward. No? Saying people are 'too sensitive" is bullying, parents do it everyday, teachers .. friends ..colleagues... Rising against this is the solution, countering over and over the stupid rational that we should all be the same, all be strong all be ready to hurt others in order to feel better ourselves.. opposing bullies is the solution. When you can do this (fight the bully) , you will feel it, it will be your time to act humanely (to act with consideration for more than yourself and your direct environment) and many will not do it out of fear lazyness self centrism direct loss (like getting fired or hurt physically or made fun of by dozens of people in a chat.. there is no difference). That is the issue: people who can wont and they become people who cant that go increase the numbers of the bully army. I mean look at voting polls, people have no interest in politics and let the "chips fall where they may" every day! That is a clear sign of apathy/sleuth. People take for granted liberties they think they have (stuff loads of other people actually fought and died for, that are considered "normal", something you don't have to consistently go back to defend! which is ludicrous sleuth on their part), and it is all dissolving and drowning in a a sea of: "you can find everything and everyone on internet" it is all there 'ripped for the kill"... It is imperative to fight for a better place everywhere, every day, not just when it suits our own individual back yard. ps: if you are a dumb f ck cyberbully / bully in real life, we are coming for you. You will recognize us at once when we will confront you, we will offer to help you while refuting any "bs/hate/humor" you might come at us with, with no sort of confrontation against you just a desire to make you come to terms with your problem.. ..when this happens, do recognize that you need help and make the change happen, or be ready for the come uppers that such a vile attitude yields. # bullies need love too, so they can pass it forward I haven't laughed so long for a every long time. Thanks for the laughs. Show nested quote + Lets agree that when people get hurt they will hurt in return. Lets agree that if you help a stranger he will in turn pass it forward. Let's not. Funny.. have you considered why it felt important enough to post your opinion? no? | ||
Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
Is this an advertisement, which is telling people "If you tell to Innovation that he is a bad player, he will be very unhappy" so that everybody with a bad mood starts doing it? Seriously? User was warned for this post | ||
Charoisaur
Germany15614 Posts
On September 27 2017 19:33 HsDLTitich wrote: Show nested quote + On September 27 2017 09:22 Hikki_Hibiki1 wrote: I don't understand why "hey let's stop being assholes to people online" is such a controversial thing to say. I know right? People between these two options: 1) telling assholes to stop being assholes; 2) telling victims to grow a thicker skin; choose the second one because it's the lazier and they don't have to do anything to change the situation. We call them status quo warriors. How is typing that victims should grow thicker skin lazier than typing that people should stop being assholes? | ||
ShoCkeyy
7814 Posts
On September 27 2017 19:33 HsDLTitich wrote: Show nested quote + On September 27 2017 09:22 Hikki_Hibiki1 wrote: I don't understand why "hey let's stop being assholes to people online" is such a controversial thing to say. I know right? People between these two options: 1) telling assholes to stop being assholes; 2) telling victims to grow a thicker skin; choose the second one because it's the lazier and they don't have to do anything to change the situation. We call them status quo warriors. If any of you knew my history with TL or growing up in the SC community then you would understand my position and why I was cyber bullied over the years, but because you don't, you'll never understand why "growing a thicker skin" is probably the best way to combat this. I always report cyberbullying during my games, or streams because that's all you can really do in the hopes they get banned, and don't just go a buy a new game to circumvent the ban. By telling a person to stop being an asshole, that won't do anything. You're living in a chamber if you think that helps. When was the last time you tried to stop a person from being a cyber bully and see it work? Probably never. Either you report, block the person, mute them, or ignore the cancer. There's literally nothing else you can do. It's the internet, and if you want better protection, good job losing some of your own free speech online. | ||
ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On September 27 2017 18:51 Psychobabas wrote: Show nested quote + On September 27 2017 18:43 fluidrone wrote: On September 27 2017 18:40 Psychobabas wrote: On September 27 2017 08:24 ShambhalaWar wrote: On September 27 2017 05:47 Psychobabas wrote: On September 26 2017 21:27 nanaoei wrote: in my experience, i was put through multiple extra-curricular classes each week, with two of them being language classes. they took place at colleges and highschools over the weekend and i was 10 at the time. in these same classes, there could be 18 year olds enrolled in the same classes. the older kids would band together in my class and take advantage of some of the younger ones like myself. eventually they would make us do things like fight each other during break. we beat each other up, or we get heavily abused on our own, and so we did what we were told. the other language class was not as abusive but still had the age gaps and rancid bullying. LOL thats hilarious, I can just imagine it xD Might be a be a good idea to print your post out, make an appointment with a therapist, and take a good solid hour to discuss what part of child abuse brings you pleasure. And proof reading, "that's" I dont even... That's the part where you go find out what he's on about. Don't be scared, the nice you is way more cool/chill/hip/whatever good than the slick you. No I am talking about the part where he corrected the grammar... The rest is just usual forum social-justice babble. I do rather than type, thanks. Have a good day! It's the parts of ourself that we deny the most, that actually end up causing harm. Let me restate what I said earlier. When someone shares a story about legit child abuse that they experienced in regard to a similar situation as the topic... and then you respond with "LOL thats hilarious, i can imagine it xD" Then you are missing the person completely. The statement is really just about you, that you think his abuse is funny and usually people derive pleasure from what they think is funny or entertaining (or tell me how I'm suppose to take your statement because I don't see another way to interpret it). Maybe you were just flippantly throwing shit down on the internet, first thing to come to you mind, and bleh... put it on the internet. But if you really do find shit like that funny, then I don't know what part of yourself you had to turn off to see it that way. My guess is if it was happening in front of you, you might see the whole thing differently (I hope so at least). | ||
ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On September 27 2017 14:29 evilfatsh1t wrote: Show nested quote + On September 27 2017 13:46 ShambhalaWar wrote: On September 27 2017 12:57 evilfatsh1t wrote: On September 27 2017 09:22 Hikki_Hibiki1 wrote: I don't understand why "hey let's stop being assholes to people online" is such a controversial thing to say. because its impossible to achieve and foolish to hope for. most of the posters here who disagree with the fact that the victims should take it upon themselves to deal with it better seem to be naive. in an ideal world yes, awareness and education (and punishments if necessary) alone will solve this problem and everyone wont be assholes to each other. but any talk on how this could be achieved is purely theoretical and hopelessly optimistic. the truth is you cant prevent this just like how you cant prevent any other crime from happening. its up to yourself to take measures to reduce your exposure to these things and to reduce how much it personally affects you. those cliche statements like "life isnt fair", "people will bring you down" etc. exist for a reason. they are true as fuck so i dunno why people here are preaching theories about how the world should act in order to create some utopian society. its just not achievable. its the same for the rape argument. we dont say dont wear revealing clothes because we think anyone wearing it is asking for it, nor do we say it because we want to infringe their right to wear whatever. its just realistic to expect that they are placing themselves at higher risk and the only way to minimise these risks is to take action yourself, not expect other people to not present a risk to you in the first place. its not an ideal way to live your life but its sensible and quite frankly necessary in a society where crime, selfishness, stupidity etc will always be prevalent. its human nature At the end of the day, the position your are defending is that someone shouldn't have to simply have enough self-control over themselves that they don't impulsively spout hurtful shit all over another individual or the community. You make the argument that the person getting verbally vomited on should have to carry around an umbrella so they don't get it all over their face. Please tell me how you are saying anything less? On September 27 2017 09:22 Hikki_Hibiki1 wrote: I don't understand why "hey let's stop being assholes to people online" is such a controversial thing to say. It's only controversial in this thread. In many countries you cannot threaten someones life, just like you can't call in a bomb threat to a school and blame it on twitch chat. my position is that you shouldnt expect everyone else to have as reasonable amount of self control as you. thats stupid, unrealistic and naive. the rest of your post is yes, pretty much what im saying. im failing to see what the issue is? also, everyone keeps going back to the threat to JD, but that is literally the only comment you could deem "serious". the rest are a joke and pretty much nothing but banter. i am not disagreeing with anyone in regards to threats like JD's, but im making a point when it comes to the rest of the comments which make up like 90% of what "abuse" on internet looks like. Show nested quote + On September 27 2017 13:34 FiWiFaKi wrote: On September 27 2017 09:22 Hikki_Hibiki1 wrote: I don't understand why "hey let's stop being assholes to people online" is such a controversial thing to say. A little bit like what Evil above my post said, but I don't think it's exactly correct. He claims that you can't get people to stop... I think you can, but the cost of getting them to stop will be more than the cost of a some people getting a bit offended. well yeah i was exaggerating a bit when i said you cant get people to stop. it is possible, but like you pointed out, a scenario that is realistically achievable that brings about those kinds of results already has bigger side effects and downsides to the point where its not even an optimal solution. censorship of everything, lack of free speech etc all becomes affected when you try to tackle the issue head on which is why i have just said outright that it may as well be impossible Yes, it is unreasonable to assume everyone will have as much reasonable control as you maybe, but here is my subtle difference in opinion. *The onus should always fall on the person who is acting out to exercise some degree of consideration or self control. In this case someone is making a comment about the streamer, and has to exercise some level of awareness about what they say. The streamer also has to exercise this caution or his stream will be banned, it goes both ways. On both sides it is up to each person to take care of themselves... This is just like any relationship. So you could say, toughen up for the streamer, but the streamer isn't saying anything harmful or that would warrant restraint, he/she is just playing a game. The watcher is saying something hurtful/harmful, so the onus in my opinion falls on them to exercise restraint and consideration. This is true for all aspects of society in our day to day life. People as a culture have been moving this direction for decades in one way or another. If someone is acting out in a potentially harmful way, he/she needs to be given support and develop the awareness to channel that part of themselves into something not harmful. If someone walking down the street acting harmful to people, it is not everyone elses' job to effectively protect themselves, our cultures say that the person acting out needs to curb their behavior or speech. Would you agree with that? | ||
evilfatsh1t
Australia8513 Posts
like multiple people have pointed out, myself included, what "should" be done is different to what actually happens. its time for you to face reality it seems. im glad you brought up the culture issue in regards to how we try to get others to change their ways. i personally think with all the politically correctness, sense of entitlement, privilege and a whole load of other shit, society has gone soft. all the older generations talk shit about how younger generations, particularly millenials are pussies and theyre probably correct. hardly anyone i know who are considerably older took shit from anyone and they didnt expect anything from anybody. at some point we decided to say to the younger generations not to worry because the world is theirs and they could do and be whatever they wanted, which is an absolute load of crap. people need to stop living in fantasies and realise there are people out there that dont give a shit about others. this has turned into more of a rant thats only tangentially related to op, so ill say no more. | ||
VHbb
688 Posts
On September 28 2017 09:51 evilfatsh1t wrote: no. like multiple people have pointed out, myself included, what "should" be done is different to what actually happens. its time for you to face reality it seems. im glad you brought up the culture issue in regards to how we try to get others to change their ways. i personally think with all the politically correctness, sense of entitlement, privilege and a whole load of other shit, society has gone soft. all the older generations talk shit about how younger generations, particularly millenials are pussies and theyre probably correct. hardly anyone i know who are considerably older took shit from anyone and they didnt expect anything from anybody. at some point we decided to say to the younger generations not to worry because the world is theirs and they could do and be whatever they wanted, which is an absolute load of crap. people need to stop living in fantasies and realise there are people out there that dont give a shit about others. this has turned into more of a rant thats only tangentially related to op, so ill say no more. no. you are wrong p.s. is there a way to "report" the whole thread? I like the discussion, but this thread makes me not want to visit TL - it's one of the worst displays I've seen on this forum.. | ||
ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On September 28 2017 09:51 evilfatsh1t wrote: no. like multiple people have pointed out, myself included, what "should" be done is different to what actually happens. its time for you to face reality it seems. im glad you brought up the culture issue in regards to how we try to get others to change their ways. i personally think with all the politically correctness, sense of entitlement, privilege and a whole load of other shit, society has gone soft. all the older generations talk shit about how younger generations, particularly millenials are pussies and theyre probably correct. hardly anyone i know who are considerably older took shit from anyone and they didnt expect anything from anybody. at some point we decided to say to the younger generations not to worry because the world is theirs and they could do and be whatever they wanted, which is an absolute load of crap. people need to stop living in fantasies and realise there are people out there that dont give a shit about others. this has turned into more of a rant thats only tangentially related to op, so ill say no more. I literally have no clue what you are talking about at this point, but at least we can agree on that. You are holding strong to your idea, some small distinction about Korean culture or how people are too big of a bunch of pussies. I completely disagree. In my mind (and in the mind of many other strong men), caring for someone else and showing compassion for someone, is a supreme act of strength. Saying people are too soft, is the same nonsense that suggests if a man cries he is less of a man. It's objectively not true. Nothing excuses a person from acting like an asshole or saying harmful shit to other people. It's the individual responsibility of everyone to understand how our actions impact the world around us and master our life. Otherwise that person is just a flailing unconscious robot acting out every impulse in disregard to how it affects him or the world around him. Not everyone will do that, but it doesn't change the reality that it's their responsibility and ultimately nobody can do it but them. I'm going to end this saying that I'm happy to disagree. | ||
ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On September 27 2017 22:38 Charoisaur wrote: Show nested quote + On September 27 2017 19:33 HsDLTitich wrote: On September 27 2017 09:22 Hikki_Hibiki1 wrote: I don't understand why "hey let's stop being assholes to people online" is such a controversial thing to say. I know right? People between these two options: 1) telling assholes to stop being assholes; 2) telling victims to grow a thicker skin; choose the second one because it's the lazier and they don't have to do anything to change the situation. We call them status quo warriors. How is typing that victims should grow thicker skin lazier than typing that people should stop being assholes? Because one requires you to be an advocate for someone else, which actually takes effort and courage. | ||
niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
It simply points out the fact that this 'character' you see on the screen, and that feels distanced from you, is a very real human being who can be very hurt by your non-thought-out comment, that you justify as not meaning anything as it's the internet, and you're a random guy. It points out the humanity, and can increase empathy, which in theory is the antidote for bullying. Some anti bullying arguments shame the bully (you're an unhappy person if you're bullying, shame's on you), or simply attach labels 'BAD' to bullying, which is a form of manipulation. Showing that bullying truly hurts another person, and affects their health, is one component of the most fruitful approach I see. The other component is focusing on bullying victims to strenghten their personal boundaries and learn to be more rooted in themselves and generally be rocked by people less. | ||
aQuaSC
717 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10414 Posts
On September 28 2017 13:25 VHbb wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2017 09:51 evilfatsh1t wrote: no. like multiple people have pointed out, myself included, what "should" be done is different to what actually happens. its time for you to face reality it seems. im glad you brought up the culture issue in regards to how we try to get others to change their ways. i personally think with all the politically correctness, sense of entitlement, privilege and a whole load of other shit, society has gone soft. all the older generations talk shit about how younger generations, particularly millenials are pussies and theyre probably correct. hardly anyone i know who are considerably older took shit from anyone and they didnt expect anything from anybody. at some point we decided to say to the younger generations not to worry because the world is theirs and they could do and be whatever they wanted, which is an absolute load of crap. people need to stop living in fantasies and realise there are people out there that dont give a shit about others. this has turned into more of a rant thats only tangentially related to op, so ill say no more. no. you are wrong p.s. is there a way to "report" the whole thread? I like the discussion, but this thread makes me not want to visit TL - it's one of the worst displays I've seen on this forum.. Because not everyone is agreeing with you? How dare they... People shouldn't be assholes but the border between harmless/fun banter and actual Insult isn't clear cut and trying to police this seems pretty much impossible whiteout going way over board. Growing a thicker skin is the most practical solution. Maybe report truely harsh comments but all else will just make the online experience boring. btw: The Internet used to be at least as rough in the 90ies/early 00... And it wasn't mainstream so bitching about someone that hurt your feelings online would have made you look incredibly stupid (and weak). | ||
ShoCkeyy
7814 Posts
If you're complaining about being bullied, then do something about it, why are you waiting for some one else to do something about it? Life isn't always handed to you. Especially on the internet. | ||
Charoisaur
Germany15614 Posts
If you hate screaming children you shouldn't become a teacher. If you can't deal with toxic comments in the internet you shouldn't become a streamer. It's as simple as that, getting people to stop typing toxic comments is as practical as getting children to stop screaming. | ||
SkrollK
France580 Posts
On September 28 2017 14:54 ShambhalaWar wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2017 09:51 evilfatsh1t wrote: no. like multiple people have pointed out, myself included, what "should" be done is different to what actually happens. its time for you to face reality it seems. im glad you brought up the culture issue in regards to how we try to get others to change their ways. i personally think with all the politically correctness, sense of entitlement, privilege and a whole load of other shit, society has gone soft. all the older generations talk shit about how younger generations, particularly millenials are pussies and theyre probably correct. hardly anyone i know who are considerably older took shit from anyone and they didnt expect anything from anybody. at some point we decided to say to the younger generations not to worry because the world is theirs and they could do and be whatever they wanted, which is an absolute load of crap. people need to stop living in fantasies and realise there are people out there that dont give a shit about others. this has turned into more of a rant thats only tangentially related to op, so ill say no more. I literally have no clue what you are talking about at this point, but at least we can agree on that. You are holding strong to your idea, some small distinction about Korean culture or how people are too big of a bunch of pussies. I completely disagree. In my mind (and in the mind of many other strong men), caring for someone else and showing compassion for someone, is a supreme act of strength. Saying people are too soft, is the same nonsense that suggests if a man cries he is less of a man. It's objectively not true. Nothing excuses a person from acting like an asshole or saying harmful shit to other people. It's the individual responsibility of everyone to understand how our actions impact the world around us and master our life. Otherwise that person is just a flailing unconscious robot acting out every impulse in disregard to how it affects him or the world around him. Not everyone will do that, but it doesn't change the reality that it's their responsibility and ultimately nobody can do it but them. I'm going to end this saying that I'm happy to disagree. Ok, imma try to explain what I do think evil wants to say. In France, we've got a saying, that says : "Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien." Which can roughly get translated like : "The best is the enemy of the good." You, kind sir, are basically saying that there should be no cyber bullying at that to achieve this end, one should adress the primary cause. You, kind sir, wants the BEST. He (evil), is basically saying that no one (like in one person or even group of individual), is able to actually prevent cyber-bulliers to cyber-bully. According to that hypothesis, if one wants to stop cyber-bullying, the only way to do so (since you can't stop cyber-bullier to cyber-bully) is to actually work on himself so that cyber-bully does not have any effect on him. He wants the "GOOD" (I put that into quote marks cause i'm not sure it's the good). Now, my point is that you actually need both of the ways to achieve the goal. Because, in this vast world, we humans are not the same. Meaning, that you all have different tolerancies to things. Some will be adament to external and unbased criticism. Some won't be. Guess what ?! Some that aren't could try to "harden their skin a bit more", so that criticism like the one Flash received does not get to them. However, even tho they hardened their skin, ones like the one Jaedong received MUST be punished. That's why a thoughest law enforcement on that point is also needed. Between two extremes, one should always choose the middle. (And, choosing the middle does NOT imply do nothing. It implies do things woth ways, a little of both.) | ||
Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
Why on Earth should it ever be the victim that we push and declare to be in the wrong? They didn't create this problem. They didn't harm anybody else. They were just trying to do their job, or live their lives. By telling them that they are the ones who must change, we are saying that the bullies have impunity. We are saying that they have the power to say whatever they like, to harm whomever they like, and never get told to stop or change their behavior. In fact, quite the opposite. They are given the power to force anyone and everyone to either accept the abuse or run away. In effect, you're telling the person who sent Jaedong a death threat that he was right. | ||
ShoCkeyy
7814 Posts
On September 29 2017 05:11 Circumstance wrote: When these sorts of issues come up, every person says one group must undergo a change. Why on Earth should it ever be the victim that we push and declare to be in the wrong? They didn't create this problem. They didn't harm anybody else. They were just trying to do their job, or live their lives. By telling them that they are the ones who must change, we are saying that the bullies have impunity. We are saying that they have the power to say whatever they like, to harm whomever they like, and never get told to stop or change their behavior. In fact, quite the opposite. They are given the power to force anyone and everyone to either accept the abuse or run away. In effect, you're telling the person who sent Jaedong a death threat that he was right. So you're also saying Jaedong should just wait and see if this guy will come at his throat with a knife? Or should Jaedong report his ass to the police? There's a huge difference between both actions... One requiring you to do something, and not hope some one will spoon feed you your actions. | ||
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