We've almost reached the end of the Korean StarCraft II year. GSL and SSL have concluded their regular seasons, and only one tournament is now left before everyone goes into hiding to practice for the biggest tournament of the year at BlizzCon. For some of the players in this bracket, Super Tournament could be their last showing of the year.
The year’s second and final Super Tournament kicks off with what is undoubtedly the most one-sided opening round matchup. Less than two weeks removed from his third Code S title, INnoVation is on cloud nine. He may have stumbled a bit on during his showdown with sOs, but there’s no disputing INnoVation’s perch atop the Korean Starcraft scene. TIME, on the other hand, was not the only foreigner to qualify for the Super Tournament. Whereas INnoVation has steamrolled his contemporaries, TIME has posted a 2-5 mark against Koreans in July. He showed flashes against a troubled soO, but only won a single game in losses to Classic, herO and Dear in GSL Season 3 and IEM Shanghai. Two months later, he succeeded where players like Elazer and Namshar could not, defeating TRUE and RagnaroK to reach the tournament proper.
Make no mistake, TIME is the greatest underdog imaginable. INnoVation is the reigning GSL champion and winner of three other premier events this WCS season. He could lose this match and still have secured himself second place on the WCS Korea Standings. If there’s hope to be had for TIME, it’s that the massive favorite will overlook this match, perhaps setting his sights on another series against Classic, the Protoss who put an end to INnoVation’s SSL title defense in late August. There is little solace to be had, however, as INnoVation is notorious for never letting off the gas pedal no matter the foe. Simply put, TIME will have to pull of a miracle to escape this nightmare Round of 16 pairing. He won’t be given a chance by anyone, which just means he has nothing to lose. After all, if TIME’s destined for an early exit, he might as well take some big names with him on the way out.
There was a time back last spring when aLive seemed to be back on his feet once again. While never reaching the highest podium, he was a force to be reckoned with, consistently taking down other top players in offline tournaments. Then something happened and we returned back to the aLive of yesteryear. His tally of WCS points has certainly not been terrible over the course of the year, and there’s still a theoretical chance that we’re going to see the Pajama Terran at Anaheim in November. Fortunately for aLive, he did manage a deep run in the last Super Tournament, and he only needs to repeat that particular feat to make sure his chances are up to par. Unfortunately for aLive, he’s lived up to his reputation over the summer, with nary a memorable result to his name. Maybe he has what it takes to make a dent in the scene again, but it’s looking highly unlikely.
Meanwhile, Classic just doesn’t seem to get a break. With a GSL title, an SSL title and an IEM title to his name, it seems perplexing that Classic is still seen as a mid-tier Protoss. He seems to fly under people’s radar even as he posts strong results. His performance has not been as spectacular as that of, say, Stats, but that’s a pretty unfair comparison to make. He’s been fighting his way up the score boards and the power rankings since the beginning of the year, and he’s not about to stop now. There’s a tough bracket ahead of him, but he’s already proven himself capable of taking down INnoVation. If he survives his first two encounters, there’s really no reason for him to miss a deep run in the tournament. Underdog though he may be, Classic should never be forgotten.
Dear really was the toast of the town for a moment. He sitting pretty near the top of SSL Premier standings, but the solid start failed to transform into a fairy tale ending that he was hoping for. After a disappointing end to the round robin, Dear collapsing in his playoff matchup against Dark, losing four straight after taking a 2-0 lead. The series was a showcase of shocking rigidity from Dear, who is often characterized as having a dangerous and eclectic playstyle. In truth, it was exactly what people have come to expect from Dear ever since he walked the royal road back in 2013, maddening inconsistency and immeasurable frustration. Which is why it’s hard to get too excited as Dear makes a tepid charge towards his second GSL title. Four years later and it’s much the same Dear, effervescent at times and completely hapless at others.
GuMiho is undergoing his own trial of sorts as he too struggles to recapture lost form. When GuMiho finally realized a career long dream by defeating soO in the GSL Season 2 finals, the assumption was that more success would follow. GuMiho made strides in defending his GSL title, but ultimately fell short in the Round of 16. He gave an even poorer account of himself at IEM Shanghai. Suddenly August was halfway over and GuMiho only had the Super Tournament to look forward to before BlizzCon. He managed to qualify, yes, but with none of the fanfare you’d expect from such a recent Code S champion. Like Dear, GuMiho enters the Super Tournament overshadowed by his past success. It would be cynical to say GuMiho’s best days are behind him, but, like Dear, the talk seems to have shifted from what might be, to what has been. Winning the Super Tournament would go a long way to dispel that notion, but also give the players encouragement that their futures aren’t as bleak as some might believe.
The team kill is a dynamic as old as time. That said - this battle between Jin Air teammates is different than those that came before it. Maru is no longer the paragon of Terran play. Rogue has become more than the predictably unsuccessful challenger he once was. Rogue’s win at IEM Shanghai was a declaration that Rogue was done living in Maru’s wake. Maru would have to take a back seat as Rogue finally fulfilled his potential. Rogue and Maru have met 19 times, with the most famous being Rogue’s win at Blizzcon. The knee-jerk reaction was to label the 3-0 an anomaly. After all, Maru had handily defeated Rogue in GSL just a few months earlier. It was par for the course. When Maru lost excuses were made to explain how such a prodigal talent could possibly falter. When Rogue won, there were always mitigating circumstances. After all, he had no business beating someone as decorated as Maru until he made it past the quarterfinals in a Starleague.
Two years later and people are running out of excuses to make for Maru. 2016 was disappointing. 2017 started with Maru poised to conquer WESG, but it was TY who walked away the victor. GSL and SSL were no different as Maru failed to break through despite deep runs. Where was the Maru the community had fallen in love with? Meanwhile, after a dismal 2016, Rogue seemingly got tired of perpetually coming up short. After a stellar spring and summer, Rogue is firmly established as one of the three best Zergs in Korea. He’s finally a champion and he’ll be looking to add to his display case at the Super Tournament. But it will have to start with a win over Maru, who even now casts an enormous shadow. What was once a foregone conclusion in Maru’s favor, has flipped Rogue’s way. Will the trend continue or will Maru remind the community who the real ace of the last remaining team in Korea is?
For Dark, it’s been a year of almosts. He’s managed to almost reach the trophy at IEMs and star leagues, but so far he’s fallen short by the narrowest of margins. It would be tempting to call his performance in 2017 lackluster, but there have been a scant few other Zerg players with better results on their record. For a year with a clear dearth of Zerg trophies, Dark still stands out as one of the most successful players of his race. A loss against Stats is nothing to scoff at, and he finally broke through his mental blocks in GSL. He’s secured his spot in the Global Finals in November, but others have snatched the title from right under his nose again and again. Now he’s looking to finally set things right, and a Super Tournament title would be the perfect way to pave his way to BlizzCon.
After Proleague ended last year, Bunny has found himself in a strange spot. He’s still a very familiar face at the FreecUP Studio and the Nexon Arena, but mostly as just a speed bump for the other, more successful players. His arguably best result of the year so far has been his third place in the SSL Challenge Division, but even that’s really just a slightly easier way to qualify for the next season. Bunny has managed to defeat Dark just once out of the four times they’ve met this year. Hope then seems to be a foregone conclusion for the Terran.
No match-up in the Round of 16 encapsulates the year of Korean StarCraft more than the one between Stats and soO. The hope and despair. Disappointment and elation. Success and failure. It is the tireless struggle that is being a progamer. Stats is less than a week removed from his second Starleague title. The most prolific player in LotV, Stats has reached the semifinals or better of eleven premier events (not counting the four man cross finals) times since 2016, winning two of them. His triumph over Dark was a marathon of endurance and tenacity. Dark threw the gauntlet at him, but Stats never gave an inch. It was a very different tale from when Stats won GSL back in April. In that match he looked completely control, eventually closing the series out in a game in which his opponent seemed to never have a chance. His opponent that day? The one who elevated Stats from someone who was always good, but not good enough, to a champion, while simultaneously furthering his reputation as a loser? soO of course.
soO may have made that finals and another, but GSL has been the limit of his success this year. He may have won SSL Challenge Season 2, but such a small triumph hardly measures up to early exits in IEMs and the first super tournament. His performance at GSL vs The World will grant him some solace, but the fact remains that soO has looked far from his best in weekenders this year. It’s fitting that the journey to redeem himself should begin with a rematch of another wasted opportunity to shed the Kong image. When soO won the KeSPA Cup, it seemed that he wasn’t satisfied. He said what he really wanted was to win a Starleague. soO’s run out of chances to end his streak of bad luck in GSL finals for the year, though. If he’s to start chipping away at the Kong curse, he’ll have to settle for starting here.
It's wonderfully ironic that Zest arguably heads into this match as a slight favorite, after bombing out of essentially every offline competition he's attempted this year. That void has left him with time to practice—and practice he did. With three accounts in the top 13 of the Korean server and MMR beaten only by Rogue, Maru and INnoVation at this moment in time, Zest is by far the highest ranking Protoss on ladder, and has been for quite a while, always at or around the 7000 MMR mark. In fact, the second highest is also Zest. So is the third. Thankful messages for his aid in practice have been coming in from players like Rogue and INnoVation, who both consider him extremely capable at the moment. Now, finally, Zest will have a chance to showcase just what he has worked on behind closed doors.
The reigning Super Tournament champion, herO, on the other hand, has had time in the spotlight since his victory, and he hasn't used it well at all. His third-to-last finish in SSL Premier sends him to Fast Lane, where he will have to re-qualify for Premier. A Ro16 finish in Code S is far below his usual standards, and his GSL vs the World showing ended in an 0-3 thrashing at the hands of Stats in the opening round. The road is very visibly going downhill for herO, to the point where he's almost performing as poorly in recent weeks as Zest did in the early parts of the year.
Nevertheless, these two have both won a tournament in 2017, not to mention their success in years before, and should by no means be counted out. This first match should be a very telling indicator as to where these two former titans stand—and perhaps even show us if one of them has regained their form and could challenge for the title.
Ryung, it seems, has followed in the footsteps of fellow Terran aLive. His start to the year was rather promising, but once the snows melted, Ryung followed suit. Semifinals loss against the eventual champion Stats proved to be Ryung’s best result this year. Struggling to gain traction for the rest of the year, the Terran is not even in the running to qualify for BlizzCon. What’s at stake here is nothing more than the sheer thrill of making a deep run in a Super Tournament. A good run might make viewers take note once again. A short run would just be nothing out of the ordinary.
It’s an odd numbered year. sOs will not be denied. Not in this lifetime or the next.
On September 28 2017 02:08 pvsnp wrote: Maru vs Rogue is hype as fuck. So much on the line and a teamkill to boot. Hopefully the winner makes it to Blizzcon.
Maru and Rogue could do well but sOs is going to blizzcon
On September 28 2017 02:08 pvsnp wrote: Maru vs Rogue is hype as fuck. So much on the line and a teamkill to boot. Hopefully the winner makes it to Blizzcon.
Maru and Rogue could do well but sOs is going to blizzcon
I want sOs to make Blizzcon too, but his fanboys have been so annoying as of late that I almost hope he doesn't. Calling a tournament winner literally months before it even starts is just.....
On September 28 2017 02:08 pvsnp wrote: Maru vs Rogue is hype as fuck. So much on the line and a teamkill to boot. Hopefully the winner makes it to Blizzcon.
Maru and Rogue could do well but sOs is going to blizzcon
I want sOs to make Blizzcon too, but his fanboys have been so annoying as of late that I almost hope he doesn't. Calling a tournament winner literally months before it even starts is just.....
Still, I can't hold the fans against the man.
I'm cool with one of sOs, Rogue, or Maru to make blizzcon. Just wish herO could have dropped out as well
On September 28 2017 02:08 pvsnp wrote: Maru vs Rogue is hype as fuck. So much on the line and a teamkill to boot. Hopefully the winner makes it to Blizzcon.
Maru and Rogue could do well but sOs is going to blizzcon
I want sOs to make Blizzcon too, but his fanboys have been so annoying as of late that I almost hope he doesn't. Calling a tournament winner literally months before it even starts is just.....
Still, I can't hold the fans against the man.
I'm cool with one of sOs, Rogue, or Maru to make blizzcon. Just wish herO could have dropped out as well
i like Maru a lot but he has not shown anything this year that suggests he will win blizzcon
On September 28 2017 02:08 pvsnp wrote: Maru vs Rogue is hype as fuck. So much on the line and a teamkill to boot. Hopefully the winner makes it to Blizzcon.
Maru and Rogue could do well but sOs is going to blizzcon
I want sOs to make Blizzcon too, but his fanboys have been so annoying as of late that I almost hope he doesn't. Calling a tournament winner literally months before it even starts is just.....
Still, I can't hold the fans against the man.
I'm cool with one of sOs, Rogue, or Maru to make blizzcon. Just wish herO could have dropped out as well
i like Maru a lot but he has not shown anything this year that suggests he will win blizzcon
I never said he would win, I just want him there because Maru vs foreigner is one of the most entertaining matchups around
On September 28 2017 02:08 pvsnp wrote: Maru vs Rogue is hype as fuck. So much on the line and a teamkill to boot. Hopefully the winner makes it to Blizzcon.
Maru and Rogue could do well but sOs is going to blizzcon
I want sOs to make Blizzcon too, but his fanboys have been so annoying as of late that I almost hope he doesn't. Calling a tournament winner literally months before it even starts is just.....
Still, I can't hold the fans against the man.
I'm cool with one of sOs, Rogue, or Maru to make blizzcon. Just wish herO could have dropped out as well
i like Maru a lot but he has not shown anything this year that suggests he will win blizzcon
I never said he would win, I just want him there because Maru vs foreigner is one of the most entertaining matchups around
Me too, if there is no ByuN, please at least let Maru play against foreigners! We already saw TY a lot, INno a bit as well. Now time for Maru!
The Maru vs Rogue match up will undoubtedly be hazardous to my health. Knowing one of these two teammates will be packing up their keyboard and mouse after their first bo5 (effectively ending all chance to participate at Blizzcon) is just too much for me to bare...
There was not, and is not a single thing in the entire starcraft2 scene this year which pains me as much as knowing Maru's unrealized potential -- I have felt it, time and time again. It is palpable. It is measurable. And it strikes me to the core.
In my dreams I see Maru facing off against INnoVation in the semi-finals. After a back and forth series exchanging blow for blow, Maru triumphs victorious! Maru then moves on to meet none other than sOs in what will be a wonky, yet ultimately epic grand finals.
On September 28 2017 09:02 Togekiss wrote: The Maru vs Rogue match up will undoubtedly be hazardous to my health. Knowing one of these two teammates will be packing up their keyboard and mouse after their first bo5 (effectively ending all chance to participate at Blizzcon) is just too much for me to bare...
There was not, and is not a single thing in the entire starcraft2 scene this year which pains me as much as knowing Maru's unrealized potential -- I have felt it, time and time again. It is palpable. It is measurable. And it strikes me to the core.
In my dreams I see Maru facing off against INnoVation in the semi-finals. After a back and forth series exchanging blow for blow, Maru triumphs victorious! Maru then moves on to meet none other than sOs in what will be a wonky, yet ultimately epic grand finals.
Make me proud Maru. Make me believe again!
.........so your dreams have sOs taking the last Blizzcon spot instead of Maru?
If Maru defeats sOs in the finals, he will have 5925 WCS points. sOs will have 6050. So the 8th and final Korean spot will go to sOs.
Mathematically: Current Maru: 4650 Current sOs: 5000
GSL Super Tournament 1st Place = 1500 WCS points GSL Super Tournament 2nd Place = 1050 WCS points
Problem is, Maru's current point tally includes 225 points that sOs's does not because Maru qualified while sOs was seeded. sOs will not receive any points if he is knocked out in the Ro16, whereas Maru will still receive 225. But if both of them advance, both get 450 for the Ro8, 675 for the Ro4, etc, etc.
Which is to say, if Maru wins the finals his total number of WCS points will rise by 1275. If sOs wins, his total number of WCS points will rise by 1500. So even if sOs loses to Maru in the finals, sOs will still have a higher point total.
Long story short, if you want Maru to go to Blizzcon, you should be praying for sOs to drop out early. The earlier the better.
I'm hyped for this tournament, not only because it's the last big Korean tournament before Blizzcon but because the placing of the players will likely determine which (if any) foreigners make it out of their groups.
I think the weekend warriors have a good chance of advancing (Rogue, herO, sOs, Inno), but it's really tough to tell.
I think Inno/TIME will be a 3-0 for Inno, but TIME has really impressed me this year, and I think he could at the very least have some close games with Inno even if he does go without a win.
I'm specifically looking at Neeb and Nerchio's group. If they can get soO and any herO/sOs/Classic, then I think they have a good chance of making it out. On the other hand, literally any Terran drastically reduces the probability of them getting out (though a Terran + sOs is probably still ok for Neeb).
^^ Korean Terran would wreck Neeb. His best chances are in ZvP and PvP as he shown in the previous GSL super tournament which he won basically avoiding terrans.
On September 28 2017 14:10 hiroshOne wrote: ^^ Korean Terran would wreck Neeb. His best chances are in ZvP and PvP as he shown in the previous GSL super tournament which he won basically avoiding terrans.
If it's a Korean T and P, then he has a chance against the P. I wouldn't say that he has "no" chance against Maru, TY, or Gumiho, but he has a substantially better chance against soO...maybe even Dark and of course any Protoss.
On September 28 2017 14:10 hiroshOne wrote: ^^ Korean Terran would wreck Neeb. His best chances are in ZvP and PvP as he shown in the previous GSL super tournament which he won basically avoiding terrans.
If it's a Korean T and P, then he has a chance against the P. I wouldn't say that he has "no" chance against Maru, TY, or Gumiho, but he has a substantially better chance against soO...maybe even Dark and of course any Protoss.
soO maybe, though he is a beast in ZvP and ZvZ when in form. Gumiho is inconsistent, so maybe him too (but I think he is virtually guaranteed #6 in the standings).
Dark, though, of all people? Dark eats foreigners for breakfast, without any milk. I think the foreigners might even prefer to face Inno over Dark.
On September 28 2017 14:10 hiroshOne wrote: ^^ Korean Terran would wreck Neeb. His best chances are in ZvP and PvP as he shown in the previous GSL super tournament which he won basically avoiding terrans.
If it's a Korean T and P, then he has a chance against the P. I wouldn't say that he has "no" chance against Maru, TY, or Gumiho, but he has a substantially better chance against soO...maybe even Dark and of course any Protoss.
soO maybe, though he is a beast in ZvP and ZvZ when in form. Gumiho is inconsistent, so maybe him too (but I think he is virtually guaranteed #6 in the standings).
Dark, though, of all people? Dark eats foreigners for breakfast without any milk. I think the foreigners might even prefer to face Inno over Dark.
I know Dark is super scary, but Neeb is at the very least better at PvZ than PvT. I believe Nerchio has done better versus Korean Zerg than Korean Terran, or at the very least he has a decent amount of experience beating Solar. I really don't think any foreigner wants to face Inno right now. He is monstrously scary in TvZ and TvP.
soO is definitely a strong opponent, but if he plays like he did in GSL vs the World, I would be less worried.
If:
Gumiho doesn't advance very far Dark beats one opponent Stats beats one opponent sOs maintains his spot
Then, the fourth and eighth spot will be soO and sOs respectively. I think that would be an ideal situation because sOs is rather inconsistent, and even though he just got second, there will be ample time for preparation before the ro16, and sOs is not as good in the preparation format as he is in the weekend tournament
Then soO is as we discussed. He would be going up against Neeb's best matchup and a matchup where Nerchio would have a lot of experience since Nerchio is from the EU region.
On September 17 2017 19:52 Diabolique wrote: It seems, sOs is ALMOST qualified for BlizzCon. After today's qualifiers, ByuN is out of the race. So the only contenders for the 8th place are: sOs 5000 Maru 4650 aLive 4625 Classic 4425 Rogue 4325
sOs will be eliminated only if the other contenders earn by 350 points more than him (and it already counts the 225, they got for qualifying) in SuperTournament 2.
If sOs wins in round 1, he will be guaranteed 225+225 points, so they would need to earn by 350+225 points more than him (450), so at least 1025 points. The winner gets 1500 points, the second gets 1050 points. If sOs wins in round 2, they would need to get at least 1250 points.
So if sOs wins in round 1, but not in round 2 and - Maru gets to the finals, Maru goes to BlizzCon, otherwise sOs. - aLive loses in the finals, a tie break between aLive and sOs will be played. - aLive wins the finals, aLive goes to BlizzCon, otherwise sOs. - Classic wins the finals, Classic goes to BlizzCon, otherwise sOs. - Rogue wins the finals, Rogue goes to BlizzCon, otherwise sOs.
If sOs wins in both rounds 1 and 2, but loses in the semifinals, Rogue is out and all Maru, aLive and Classic would need to win the finals to overtake sOs for BlizzCon.
If sOs loses in first round, Maru and aLive would need to get to the semifinals to overtake sOs, Classic and Rogue would need to get to the finals.
sOs is in an easy position ... he just needs to win against Ryung and the probability someone overtakes him is very low.
On September 28 2017 09:02 Togekiss wrote: The Maru vs Rogue match up will undoubtedly be hazardous to my health. Knowing one of these two teammates will be packing up their keyboard and mouse after their first bo5 (effectively ending all chance to participate at Blizzcon) is just too much for me to bare...
There was not, and is not a single thing in the entire starcraft2 scene this year which pains me as much as knowing Maru's unrealized potential -- I have felt it, time and time again. It is palpable. It is measurable. And it strikes me to the core.
In my dreams I see Maru facing off against INnoVation in the semi-finals. After a back and forth series exchanging blow for blow, Maru triumphs victorious! Maru then moves on to meet none other than sOs in what will be a wonky, yet ultimately epic grand finals.
Make me proud Maru. Make me believe again!
The problem with Maru is that he always shows high level games until it matters the most. He crushes so many GSL groups and then never makes through playoffs. At iem he looked unbeatable against byun and inno at first, then lost to byun in the damn rematch.
Zest is the god of not living up to his potential though
On September 28 2017 21:50 Cricketer12 wrote: great series and great g3
LotV Mech vs Zerg is so much less entertaining/compelling/interesting/nuanced than HotS Mech vs Zerg.
Turtling into an invincible Raven/BC army?
You mean, Zerg having to defend against all kinds of harassment while finding ways to do damage with underpowered comps while building an economy and teching with the third tech switch in mind? You didn't beat a good mech player with one comp, you needed to make the right comp over and over, setting them up for the eventual kill. hydras and vipers then queens and ultras, corrupters and broodlords, you had to mix all of these together over the course of many army trades. Rogue just made the same comp that whole game, just like ever LotV mech game in the current meta. The trade/remax dynamic has been heavily neutered in LotV leading to the Zerg brainlessly bashing into the mech army that is just mass thors because tanks blow against swarm hosts.
On September 28 2017 21:50 Cricketer12 wrote: great series and great g3
LotV Mech vs Zerg is so much less entertaining/compelling/interesting/nuanced than HotS Mech vs Zerg.
Turtling into an invincible Raven/BC army?
You mean, Zerg having to defend against all kinds of harassment while finding ways to do damage with underpowered comps while building an economy and teching with the third tech switch in mind? You didn't beat a good mech player with one comp, you needed to make the right comp over and over, setting them up for the eventual kill. hydras and vipers then queens and ultras, corrupters and broodlords, you had to mix all of these together over the course of many army trades. Rogue just made the same comp that whole game, just like ever LotV mech game in the current meta. The trade/remax dynamic has been heavily neutered in LotV leading to the Zerg brainlessly bashing into the mech army that is just mass thors because tanks blow against swarm hosts.
You don't need to switch comps when viper/courruptor/swarmhost with some hydra support can win on it's own. Mech isn't as OP as it was in HoTS
On September 28 2017 21:50 Cricketer12 wrote: great series and great g3
LotV Mech vs Zerg is so much less entertaining/compelling/interesting/nuanced than HotS Mech vs Zerg.
Turtling into an invincible Raven/BC army?
You mean, Zerg having to defend against all kinds of harassment while finding ways to do damage with underpowered comps while building an economy and teching with the third tech switch in mind? You didn't beat a good mech player with one comp, you needed to make the right comp over and over, setting them up for the eventual kill. hydras and vipers then queens and ultras, corrupters and broodlords, you had to mix all of these together over the course of many army trades. Rogue just made the same comp that whole game, just like ever LotV mech game in the current meta. The trade/remax dynamic has been heavily neutered in LotV leading to the Zerg brainlessly bashing into the mech army that is just mass thors because tanks blow against swarm hosts.
You don't need to switch comps when viper/courruptor/swarmhost with some hydra support can win on it's own. Mech isn't as OP as it was in HoTS
Which is why....... LotV Mech vs Zerg is so much less entertaining/compelling/interesting/nuanced than HotS Mech vs Zerg.
I don't know if it's me who don't remember well. But for me HOTS mech vs z was just mass swarmhost spore queen corruptor vs avilo turtle mech style with game of one and a half hours were you could tune out after 10 minute and come back after an hour and don't miss anything.
I guess at the end of HOTS it was a bit better when there was BC involve and it was a bit more mobile. But seriously those damn mech tvz on like Vani were so god damn borring.
On September 29 2017 04:09 Phredxor wrote: Yeah bring back 2 hour SH stalemates!
How many elite Koreans got involved in two hour swarm hosts games? I love when people revise the history of an entire expansion based on some fuzzy memories. Besides, I was referring to end HotS mech which was far more dynamic than the nonsense we see now.
On September 29 2017 04:09 Phredxor wrote: Yeah bring back 2 hour SH stalemates!
How many elite Koreans got involved in two hour swarm hosts games? I love when people revise the history of an entire expansion based on some fuzzy memories. Besides, I was referring to end HotS mech which was far more dynamic than the nonsense we see now.
I mean that's what you were doing too. End of hots mech was only a short portion of hots mech. And it was stupid strong.
On September 29 2017 04:09 Phredxor wrote: Yeah bring back 2 hour SH stalemates!
How many elite Koreans got involved in two hour swarm hosts games? I love when people revise the history of an entire expansion based on some fuzzy memories. Besides, I was referring to end HotS mech which was far more dynamic than the nonsense we see now.
I mean that's what you were doing too. End of hots mech was only a short portion of hots mech. And it was stupid strong.
It was very strong and very Terran favored which is why it was so enjoyable to watch in my opinion. The Zerg had to work so hard to deal with the stronger compositions and maps that favored mech play. When they did, it was so rewarding. When they didn't it was immensely frustrating, but the struggle was so enthralling.
In no way did I revise the history of any aspect of end of HotS mech. That's what it was like - an uphill battle for Zerg that really only ByuL and Rogue had any idea how to approach. I remember well because I watched a lot of those games over the course of the last year and they remain more vivid than many of the LotV games I watch on a weekly basis.
On September 29 2017 04:09 Phredxor wrote: Yeah bring back 2 hour SH stalemates!
How many elite Koreans got involved in two hour swarm hosts games? I love when people revise the history of an entire expansion based on some fuzzy memories. Besides, I was referring to end HotS mech which was far more dynamic than the nonsense we see now.
I mean that's what you were doing too. End of hots mech was only a short portion of hots mech. And it was stupid strong.
It was very strong and very Terran favored which is why it was so enjoyable to watch in my opinion. The Zerg had to work so hard to deal with the stronger compositions and maps that favored mech play. When they did, it was so rewarding. When they didn't it was immensely frustrating, but the struggle was so enthralling.
In no way did I revise the history of any aspect of end of HotS mech. That's what it was like - an uphill battle for Zerg that really only ByuL and Rogue had any idea how to approach. I remember well because I watched a lot of those games over the course of the last year and they remain more vivid than many of the LotV games I watch on a weekly basis.
I still don't understand why a meta you outright admit was heavily Terran-favored should be looked upon as a good thing.
On September 29 2017 04:09 Phredxor wrote: Yeah bring back 2 hour SH stalemates!
How many elite Koreans got involved in two hour swarm hosts games? I love when people revise the history of an entire expansion based on some fuzzy memories. Besides, I was referring to end HotS mech which was far more dynamic than the nonsense we see now.
I mean that's what you were doing too. End of hots mech was only a short portion of hots mech. And it was stupid strong.
It was very strong and very Terran favored which is why it was so enjoyable to watch in my opinion. The Zerg had to work so hard to deal with the stronger compositions and maps that favored mech play. When they did, it was so rewarding. When they didn't it was immensely frustrating, but the struggle was so enthralling.
In no way did I revise the history of any aspect of end of HotS mech. That's what it was like - an uphill battle for Zerg that really only ByuL and Rogue had any idea how to approach. I remember well because I watched a lot of those games over the course of the last year and they remain more vivid than many of the LotV games I watch on a weekly basis.
I still don't understand why a meta you outright admit was heavily Terran-favored should be looked upon as a good thing.
Zerg was also pretty strong against bio during the same period and not every Terran could mech effectively.
On September 29 2017 04:09 Phredxor wrote: Yeah bring back 2 hour SH stalemates!
How many elite Koreans got involved in two hour swarm hosts games? I love when people revise the history of an entire expansion based on some fuzzy memories. Besides, I was referring to end HotS mech which was far more dynamic than the nonsense we see now.
I mean that's what you were doing too. End of hots mech was only a short portion of hots mech. And it was stupid strong.
It was very strong and very Terran favored which is why it was so enjoyable to watch in my opinion. The Zerg had to work so hard to deal with the stronger compositions and maps that favored mech play. When they did, it was so rewarding. When they didn't it was immensely frustrating, but the struggle was so enthralling.
In no way did I revise the history of any aspect of end of HotS mech. That's what it was like - an uphill battle for Zerg that really only ByuL and Rogue had any idea how to approach. I remember well because I watched a lot of those games over the course of the last year and they remain more vivid than many of the LotV games I watch on a weekly basis.
I still don't understand why a meta you outright admit was heavily Terran-favored should be looked upon as a good thing.
Zerg was also pretty strong against bio during the same period and not every Terran could mech effectively.
It's true that, just like now, Zerg being overly strong against bio was the reason that mech came about to dominate the TvZ meta. That being said, I don't think I'm alone in thinking that bio TvZ does tend to produce superior (which is to say, more entertaining) games than mech TvZ, on average. While I like mech being viable, watching game after game of meching Terrans gets stale really fast compared to bio.
I'd say the perfect balance would be something like 75% bio and 25% mech in TvZ.
More to the original point, the meta in 2015 was such that bio was not really viable at the highest levels, while mech dominated hard. It's not surprising that Terrans converted to mech en masse back then. Compared to now, bio is less viable than it used to be (heavy reliance on lategame) but still kinda-sorta doable with enough skill, whereas mech is nowhere near as strong as it used to be. At best I would say it's slightly stronger than bio, but most of that comes from the fact that a lategame mech army is just a hell of a lot easier to control than a lategame bio army.
Though. it certainly seems like the much-vaunted Korean Terrans™ have lost their edge as of late. The last season of GSL had a TvZ winrate of 47%.....not bad at all at first glance, but when you compare it to Season 1's 58% or Season 2's 73% (!), Terrans have really gone downhill recently.
The Four Horsemen were rendered obsolete after Maru and ByuN failed to deliver the results to prop up the hype, aLive and Gumiho have both slumped from their midyear peaks, Ryung hasn't been relevant since Season 1, at least TY held to some kind of stability but no more trophies.......really, the only Korean Terran that's countered the downward trend is, ironically enough for those who claim he is so meta-dependent, INnoVation.
ForGG's mech was so good to watch, I'll never forget (welll maybe one day i'll forget) his victory over Life in Dreamhack Winter 2014, One of the most exciting TvZ
I'm pretty sure the only 2 people who enjoyed watching Zerg go to 80 drones and then suicide 3 army limits to kill a raven were avilo and mizenhauer. It was boring, it was unfair, it was all we wanted to avoid after BL/inf nerf. But this game has a tendency of going in circles into 200/200 powering. You can't honestly tell me that bashing your head against planetaries and PDDs on Echo or Coda was more vivid than hydra bane. It was the same monotous kind of shit, except it took 40 minutes for the Zerg to kill themselves.
Dark vs INnoVation in GSL was better than any mech game of HotS (save for Dark vs MMA which was good, because neither of them played the 20min no rush)
Dark vs INnoVation in GSL was better than any mech game of HotS (save for Dark vs MMA which was good, because neither of them played the 20min no rush)
That's absolutely not true though. Yes there were a lot of boring mech games but there were also really fun ones where the zerg tried everything to break the terran. Then there was also stuff like forgg was life, there simply was some form of variety
On September 29 2017 06:32 Ej_ wrote: I'm pretty sure the only 2 people who enjoyed watching Zerg go to 80 drones and then suicide 3 army limits to kill a raven were avilo and mizenhauer. It was boring, it was unfair, it was all we wanted to avoid after BL/inf nerf. But this game has a tendency of going in circles into 200/200 powering. You can't honestly tell me that bashing your head against planetaries and PDDs on Echo or Coda was more vivid than hydra bane. It was the same monotous kind of shit, except it took 40 minutes for the Zerg to kill themselves.
Dark vs INnoVation in GSL was better than any mech game of HotS (save for Dark vs MMA which was good, because neither of them played the 20min no rush)
On September 29 2017 06:32 Ej_ wrote: I'm pretty sure the only 2 people who enjoyed watching Zerg go to 80 drones and then suicide 3 army limits to kill a raven were avilo and mizenhauer. It was boring, it was unfair, it was all we wanted to avoid after BL/inf nerf. But this game has a tendency of going in circles into 200/200 powering. You can't honestly tell me that bashing your head against planetaries and PDDs on Echo or Coda was more vivid than hydra bane. It was the same monotous kind of shit, except it took 40 minutes for the Zerg to kill themselves.
Dark vs INnoVation in GSL was better than any mech game of HotS (save for Dark vs MMA which was good, because neither of them played the 20min no rush)
but imbalance is good because, you see, it creates an underdog narrative. remove shields from all protoss units so mizenhauer will be thrilled by watching protoss players reinvent the meta
Well that decides it. Neeb and Nerchio are facing soO and likely sOs unless Rogue pulls a miracle. This is honestly probably the best case scenario for them too, incidentally.
On September 30 2017 23:09 FrkFrJss wrote: Well that decides it. Neeb and Nerchio are facing soO and likely sOs unless Rogue pulls a miracle. This is honestly probably the best case scenario for them too, incidentally.
Rogue just might. He has been looking like the best Zerg for a while now
On September 30 2017 23:09 FrkFrJss wrote: Well that decides it. Neeb and Nerchio are facing soO and likely sOs unless Rogue pulls a miracle. This is honestly probably the best case scenario for them too, incidentally.
I agree that's probably the best case scenario for the foreigners. Still, will it be good enough?
Assuming everyone shows up and doesn't just shit the bed, I'd give Neeb somewhere around 50/50 against soO or sOs. Lower for Nerchio of course. At a guess, maybe soO in first and Neeb in second?
On September 30 2017 23:09 FrkFrJss wrote: Well that decides it. Neeb and Nerchio are facing soO and likely sOs unless Rogue pulls a miracle. This is honestly probably the best case scenario for them too, incidentally.
Rogue just might. He has been looking like the best Zerg for a while now
Rogue has the best ZvP, but I think Dark still edges him out in ZvT. And Inno's beaten Dark before.
On September 30 2017 23:09 FrkFrJss wrote: Well that decides it. Neeb and Nerchio are facing soO and likely sOs unless Rogue pulls a miracle. This is honestly probably the best case scenario for them too, incidentally.
I agree that's probably the best case scenario for the foreigners. Still, will it be good enough?
Assuming everyone shows up and doesn't just shit the bed, I'd give Neeb somewhere around 50/50 against soO or sOs. Lower for Nerchio of course. At a guess, maybe soO in first and Neeb in second?
On September 30 2017 23:09 FrkFrJss wrote: Well that decides it. Neeb and Nerchio are facing soO and likely sOs unless Rogue pulls a miracle. This is honestly probably the best case scenario for them too, incidentally.
Rogue just might. He has been looking like the best Zerg for a while now
Rogue has the best ZvP, but I think Dark still edges him out in ZvT. And Inno's beaten Dark before.
If rogue manages to win super tournament it would definitely be trouble for neeb. Rogue would probably top that group, while soO vs Neeb could go either way depends what soO shows up