Meticulous. Medivacs and MM pushes pick apart the world’s best players and end a tournament in a stunning sweep, a symphony of annihilation. Explosive. Gumiho goes out in a blaze of glory, the game as out of control to him as it is to his opponent. Unpredictable. Unusual compositions, timings bordering on the bizarre and an unmatched potential for streaks inject a dose of fear into the bloodstream of the Korean competitive circuit. Affable. A seven-year career goes unmarred by controversy. Resilient. The ceiling of a booth collapses during a match and hits him in the head, and he proceeds to win the game after a break. Timeless. He neither burns out nor fades away.
"For a player of so many defining characteristics and fabled moments, Gumiho is a perpetual shadow over the world of competitive StarCraft."
For a player of so many defining characteristics and fabled moments, who has been praised in as many ways as he, Gumiho is a perpetual shadow over the world of competitive Starcraft. From GSL playoffs in 2011 to jaw-dropping GSTL sweeps in 2012, through his nailbiters against Losira on repeated occasions and all the way through Heart of the Swarm into the game’s current iteration, Gumiho has maintained that tinge of alacrity that sometimes fade from players that iron out their mechanical identities. Some players – most, in fact – can only thrive in the microcosm they create for themselves in-game, in which they dictate the terms. INnoVation has often been a good example, matched in the foreign scene by the 2010-2011 boneheaded game plans of IdrA. There are players who excel in their zones, who will push the boundaries when left to their own devices. Gumiho, on the other hand, has neither feared the nitty-gritty multitasking that so defined early Terran play nor shied away from the carefully planned mech play that became an almost mandatory skill once Swarm Hosts became talk of the town in Korea. Left to his own devices, Gumiho has tended to make something new for himself each time.
No, Gumiho’s shtick has always been that he has no devices. At least, none that so bind him that he becomes crippled in an unfamiliar scenario. If bio play would not do the trick and mech proved to unwieldy, Gumiho mastered the degrees in between. When nothing formulaic would cut it, Gumiho levelheadedly abandoned the algebra altogether. Instead of mastering the predictable, he has found his greatest successes in metagame flux and in games that spiral way out of control. In games that are too strict and detail-oriented, Gumiho possesses a battering ram of a playstyle that cracks anything more rigid than he. There is something a little comical in a player who gets his nickname from sweating profusely (see: hyperhidrosis) – something typically associated with nervousness or significant stress – being at his very best in panicked situations. But when a game spirals out of control, Gumiho takes the reins, and very few players have ever been able to stop him.
Winrate
66.78% vs. Terran 65.82% vs. Protoss 64.10% vs. Zerg
Rank
Circuit Standings 6
WCS Points
6800
He has been pinned as a future champion not once or twice or a dozen times over the years but countless, as revered for his adaptability as he is respected for his mechanics. That he finally joined the ranks of GSL champions in 2017 might have felt overdue for how good he has been at many points in his career, but it is also endemic to the small subset of players to which Gumiho belongs: a category that he, with his trophy and his longevity, now headlines. It is of course impossible to claim that he has always done everything better than everyone else – that Gumiho has suffered long bouts of insignificance is hardly a secret. But it is similarly impossible to claim that Gumiho has ever been helpless, or out of contention completely. Like a lightning bolt let free of its mystical bottle, he can surge skyward at a moment’s notice, only to bend over the horizon in the next. That his GSL victory came almost six years later than many of us expected was surprising, but also an incredibly fitting conclusion to his long hunt for a Starleague trophy.
All of this said, no fantastical story or unique identity pays the bills. A moderately successful stint on a CJ Entus that never lived up to its theoretical potential puts no dent in the history books. If Gumiho is characterized by his perseverance and brilliant moments burned onto our collective retina by the light of a star, then he has need for the second occurrence to cement the first. Gumiho is a champion now, and his place in the annals of the GSL can no longer be disputed, but this is rarely enough. There is need for expansion, for the next step on the perilous ladder of tournament merit. The title of champion gives Gumiho undeniable cred, but opens a door to much greater glory that might close at a moment’s notice. Each year added to the final tally of a Starcraft player’s career makes the continued investment difficult, both physically/mentally and motivationally. There is no indication that Gumiho would throw in the towel here and now, but “the next year” always tastes of unknowing and risk. What if 2017 is his best opportunity, and the Global Finals presents Gumiho with the best opportunity at immortalizing himself?
Gumiho must strike now. Not because he is at immediate risk of fading away, or because his wrists carry the immutable signs of Carpal Tunnel that seem to strike all Terrans, or because his skills are deteriorating past the point where they allow a revival.
No, this is the best opportunity for Gumiho because of who he is – lightning in a bottle, a wild storm sweeping in over land, the wild fluctuation inherent to a scene so cutthroat as to defy long-term prediction. He is the Starcraft embodiment of the double-edged sword, the equivalent of a kamikaze with a taste for survival. Gumiho was always capable of winning, always possessed the skillset necessary to do it. That it has taken him so long to get here is a byproduct of what has also given him this opportunity: the capacity for streaks, the ability to break barriers. Ask anyone what defines this player, and the answers will be polarizing. For bridging gaps between playstyles, for achieving success in Korea as well as overseas, in offline settings and online. For doing the unthinkable in one moment, falling far short of the simple in the next.
Gumiho might not be a favorite to take this trophy. Unquestionably, there are at least several players whose current forms seem better than his. But he has demonstrated championship form this year, as he has every year, and if we have learned anything from his blitzes, it is that he could very well do it again. After all, the player to eliminate him the season after his own championship victory later went on to win the event. The score between them at the time was 3-3.
Blizzcon is, in essence, year-long form pulled tight into a week-long event. Is this a boon or a hindrance for the most historically unpredictable player in the field? It will depend entirely on who shows up; whether he unleashes the lightning or leaves it locked in its bottle.
Why do you guys feel like losing your sleep over Gumiho being lower in a pre-ranking than Neeb? Why would you care so much about a random ranking before a tournament. :D It's just a ranking, i don't think you should take it so seriously. In the end, it means nothing, only the actual tournament games. Just wait for the games to begin and we'll see who does well and who doesn't. :D
Actually he is right. Gumiho, he is fallen off a lot, escpecially SHOUTcraft Kings September 2017 (8 games in a row, sick 8 games!), Ballistix Brawl Finals (against Rogue and Byun? <- losers), oh, and Gosu_PvP Cup (4:0 Neeb), and Master's Coliseum 1 and TaKe's Penthouse Party 2 (3:2 Neeb, and then 4:0 Showtime). Right, so bad.
On October 17 2017 23:37 Ej_ wrote: This placement is a disgrace.
Rofl no, it was really predictable between him and Neeb.
GSL winner vs a guy who placed lower than NoRegret.
Gumiho had the run of his life, then nothing in offline tournaments compared to the top top, sure they are near for the powerrank and maybe a little biaised because it's the best foreigners etc
Not losing but respect. His games, it's an art style. He did so many this year, so much addictable. He rediscovered mech, tons of builds, and so much crazy things in GSL! RESPECT HIM! god damn.
On October 18 2017 00:19 engesser1 wrote: Not losing but respect. His games, it's an art style. He did so many this year, so much addictable. He rediscovered mech, tons of builds, and so much crazy things in GSL! RESPECT HIM! god damn.
You know you can respect him even though he was placed under neeb on a list that has no impact on what is about to come. I'm not getting my panties in a twist even though i think Serral > Elazer, because it really does not matter. Just see how the games go and chill.
On October 17 2017 23:37 Ej_ wrote: This placement is a disgrace.
Rofl no, it was really predictable between him and Neeb.
GSL winner vs a guy who placed lower than NoRegret.
Gumiho had the run of his life, then nothing in offline tournaments compared to the top top, sure they are near for the powerrank and maybe a little biaised because it's the best foreigners etc
This is wrong to the point of being a straight up lie.
GuMiho has higher winrate across twice as many games. Now, let's check what happens if we remove players with 0 broadcasted offline appearances in Korea in that period from both players' records: Neeb: -(3-0 Natural) -(2-0 gyulzzing) -(2-0 Billowy) -(10-0 TRUE)
Neeb's record goes from 61-46 to 44-46. Yes, that's below 50%. 48,9%, to be precise. GuMiho's record goes from 143-102 to 124-101. That is 55,1%.
I don't know when Neeb was in Korea and when in the NA so I don't have the expertise to filter his Olimoleague games where obviously he had to deal with high ping (not that playing from Europe stopped Nerchio from 2-0ing Classic).
The only 2 offline tournaments they both played in was GSL Season 3 where Neeb was eliminated in winners and losers bracket by Hurricane and GuMiho advanced from his ro32 group over Elazer twice and then lost to Solar and a rematch to INnoVation in ro16.
I know I'm just being baited by a troll that's been banned countless on reddit, but somehow barely gets actioned on this website, but this is more food for thought for anyone who thought Neeb and GuMiho were close, even excluding their lopsided H2H.
I can accept Neeb ahead of GuMiho, but what in the hell has soO done to deserve being ranked ahead of him? GuMiho won the 1st Master's Coliseum since winning GSL season 2 and that's more impressive than anything soO has done since those finals.
On October 18 2017 01:13 Boggyb wrote: I can accept Neeb ahead of GuMiho, but what in the hell has soO done to deserve being ranked ahead of him? GuMiho won the 1st Master's Coliseum since winning GSL season 2 and that's more impressive than anything soO has done since those finals.
I heard it's all because that is someone from present writers in love (hidden) with soO.
On October 18 2017 02:26 dankobanana wrote: to all who link head to head on aligulac, bare in mind that Taeja deserves his all time rank by that metric :D
I am not sure if I would define Gumiho as being sort of bland and without particular characteristics, which it seems like the article is doing, because for me Gumi has a lot of character and flair in his play. His aggressive mech, his crazy but clever strategies. He's actually fun which seems to be totally contrary to how Terran players like to play. And he's smart, which Terrans are hardly known for.
So it is Gumiho who brings disgrace upon his country! I figured he would be the one to rank below a foreigner.
Lmao at all this controversy though. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO. Will Gumiho's disgrace be shared with his countrymen or will he bear it all alone?
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
TY made the Ro8 of every season of GSL. Gumiho did not. Throughout 2017, TY has been second only to INnoVation in the "best Terran" conversation.
And I did say that TY could very well be ranked next.
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right?
Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
They talk about the $$$. It was a well-paid showmatch.
At this point, I think it would be fairly straightforward to finalize the Terran hierarchy for 2017. Inno is unquestionably first. TY clearly takes second. After that though, it gets murkier. Maru, then Gumiho, then ByuN, then aLive, then Ryung, would be my ranking. But I can see how people could rank them differently.
On October 18 2017 01:13 Boggyb wrote: I can accept Neeb ahead of GuMiho, but what in the hell has soO done to deserve being ranked ahead of him? GuMiho won the 1st Master's Coliseum since winning GSL season 2 and that's more impressive than anything soO has done since those finals.
Soo wrote an article saying he will practice more for BlizzCon and have GSL Season 1+2 form.
Also: Personally I tend to think TY a tad below Gumiho though since WESG was so far back then. But overall I find this power rank so far quite okay.
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
On October 17 2017 23:38 Powerfoe wrote: Ranking a foreigner above a GSL winner is just disrespectful, I don't care who it is.
i mean, neeb also won a gsl like touranment, probably a slightly easier one, but he didnt took as many tries as gumiho.
i totally agree with this placement. wouldn't be surprised to see soO next.
Firstly, that was a year ago. The amount that a single victory can indicate current form decreases over time. Results from before the big patch last year hold no value.
And secondly, Neeb did not win a GSL-like tournament. He did indeed take korean PvP by storm with his superior expirience of disruptor-stalker control, and he did indeed win a korean tournament with it. And while that is an incredible achievment, it's not on the same level as winning GSL. In fact it's not even close.
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.
It is known.
TRUE beats Taeja head-to-head and TL had the nerve to put him 15th....smh
Oh man, thanks guys, that 4 pages i read were pure fun. Maybe just calm down a bit about a Ranking that has absolutely nothing to say. I like Gumiho and i think that was a great read, thanks for that. I personally dont think Neeb is better, but hey, its okay, the ro8 will be 8 koreans most likely anyway.
I don't know about this one, I still think TvZ is Gumi's only real achilles heel. His TvT is great, maybe only second to Inno and his TvP is up there too. That said, Gumi is in a group with Serral who's looked great vT lately and Inno who's obviously gonna be a challenge so there's a real chance that he doesn't make it out.
soO or Neeb next I think, probably not fair to rank Neeb higher than anyone else other than soO even if he has been completely dominant in WCS and is number 1 on aligulac.
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.
It is known.
TRUE beats Taeja head-to-head and TL had the nerve to put him 15th....smh
Clearly another case of egregious Liquid bias.
TRUE is the one true GOAT. The throne is his by rights. All those who deny that are my foes.
On October 18 2017 06:33 Zaros wrote: soO or Neeb next I think, probably not fair to rank Neeb higher than anyone else other than soO even if he has been completely dominant in WCS and is number 1 on aligulac.
I mean ... soO wasn't even in all GSL finals this year and neeb was only one game away from qualifying for it, so it's only fair to rank him higher.
On October 17 2017 23:38 Powerfoe wrote: Ranking a foreigner above a GSL winner is just disrespectful, I don't care who it is.
i mean, neeb also won a gsl like touranment, probably a slightly easier one, but he didnt took as many tries as gumiho.
i totally agree with this placement. wouldn't be surprised to see soO next.
Firstly, that was a year ago. The amount that a single victory can indicate current form decreases over time. Results from before the big patch last year hold no value.
And secondly, Neeb did not win a GSL-like tournament. He did indeed take korean PvP by storm with his superior expirience of disruptor-stalker control, and he did indeed win a korean tournament with it. And while that is an incredible achievment, it's not on the same level as winning GSL. In fact it's not even close.
i'd argue that it's on the same level as winning a GSL, just different format. "In fact," it's an opinion.
On October 17 2017 23:38 Powerfoe wrote: Ranking a foreigner above a GSL winner is just disrespectful, I don't care who it is.
i mean, neeb also won a gsl like touranment, probably a slightly easier one, but he didnt took as many tries as gumiho.
i totally agree with this placement. wouldn't be surprised to see soO next.
Firstly, that was a year ago. The amount that a single victory can indicate current form decreases over time. Results from before the big patch last year hold no value.
And secondly, Neeb did not win a GSL-like tournament. He did indeed take korean PvP by storm with his superior expirience of disruptor-stalker control, and he did indeed win a korean tournament with it. And while that is an incredible achievment, it's not on the same level as winning GSL. In fact it's not even close.
i'd argue that it's on the same level as winning a GSL, just different format. "In fact," it's an opinion.
Go ahead and argue it, I'm yet to see any reason other than "they're both in korea".
On October 18 2017 00:42 Morbidius wrote: Code A player better than GSL winner confirmed.
gumiho didn't even make it to the quarterfinals of the qualifier of the kespa cup that Neeb won. i completely fail to see your point here.
Why isn't Mvp #1 in this power rank? I heard he was the best in the world in 2011.
nice straw man, and a completely idiotic response to my post. but thanks for your contribution
I'm going to be honest, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who defaults to just saying inane things like 'nice straw man.' Why don't you try explaining your point instead of being even more awful than the person you chastise?
On October 18 2017 03:35 pvsnp wrote: They talk about the $$$. It was a well-paid showmatch.
At this point, I think it would be fairly straightforward to finalize the Terran hierarchy for 2017. Inno is unquestionably first. TY clearly takes second. After that though, it gets murkier. Maru, then Gumiho, then ByuN, then aLive, then Ryung, would be my ranking. But I can see how people could rank them differently.
Well, the power ranking should be more about current form then overall season achievements. TY clearly (imo) had a better year than gumiho but he didn't look particularly strong lately.
On October 18 2017 03:35 pvsnp wrote: They talk about the $$$. It was a well-paid showmatch.
At this point, I think it would be fairly straightforward to finalize the Terran hierarchy for 2017. Inno is unquestionably first. TY clearly takes second. After that though, it gets murkier. Maru, then Gumiho, then ByuN, then aLive, then Ryung, would be my ranking. But I can see how people could rank them differently.
Well, the power ranking should be more about current form then overall season achievements. TY clearly (imo) had a better year than gumiho but he didn't look particularly strong lately.
Gumiho's most recent offline trophy was winning GSL Season 2. Since then he has gotten no further than the Ro16 of any big tournament.
TY's most recent offline trophy was way back in March. But while Gumiho's been dropping out in the Ro16, TY has gotten to the quarterfinals of GSL S3, the semifinals of IEM Shanghai, and the finals of GSL vs the World.
Gumiho plays some online stuff, but TY basically never does, so it's hard to draw any conclusions from that. On the balance, I would put TY > Gumiho more than the other way around.
On October 17 2017 23:38 Powerfoe wrote: Ranking a foreigner above a GSL winner is just disrespectful, I don't care who it is.
i mean, neeb also won a gsl like touranment, probably a slightly easier one, but he didnt took as many tries as gumiho.
i totally agree with this placement. wouldn't be surprised to see soO next.
Firstly, that was a year ago. The amount that a single victory can indicate current form decreases over time. Results from before the big patch last year hold no value.
And secondly, Neeb did not win a GSL-like tournament. He did indeed take korean PvP by storm with his superior expirience of disruptor-stalker control, and he did indeed win a korean tournament with it. And while that is an incredible achievment, it's not on the same level as winning GSL. In fact it's not even close.
i'd argue that it's on the same level as winning a GSL, just different format. "In fact," it's an opinion.
You would be wrong.
It is most certainly a fact that a KeSPA Cup takes place over a few days while a GSL Season spans a few months. Starleagues outrank any weekender for that exact reason. It's far more difficult to stay in top form for several months than it is for several days.
On October 18 2017 03:35 pvsnp wrote: They talk about the $$$. It was a well-paid showmatch.
At this point, I think it would be fairly straightforward to finalize the Terran hierarchy for 2017. Inno is unquestionably first. TY clearly takes second. After that though, it gets murkier. Maru, then Gumiho, then ByuN, then aLive, then Ryung, would be my ranking. But I can see how people could rank them differently.
Well, the power ranking should be more about current form then overall season achievements. TY clearly (imo) had a better year than gumiho but he didn't look particularly strong lately.
Gumiho's most recent offline trophy was winning GSL Season 2. Since then he has gotten no further than the Ro16 of any big tournament.
TY's most recent offline trophy was way back in March. But while Gumiho's been dropping out in the Ro16, TY has gotten to the quarterfinals of GSL S3, the semifinals of IEM Shanghai, and the finals of GSL vs the World.
Gumiho plays some online stuff, but TY basically never does, so it's hard to draw any conclusions from that. On the balance, I would put TY > Gumiho more than the other way around.
-TY's ro16 GSL S3 was by far the easiest of the 4, so getting one round further than GuMiho isn't that impressive. -That IEM Shanghai semifinals came off the back of beating Dark and nobody else of note. (Yes, he beat iAsonu which GuMiho didn't, but he had the benefit of being able to watch his ZvT before the series which GuMiho did not) -TY beat absolutely nobody of note at GSL vs The World and that tournament was a complete joke due to being a popularity contest. (Scarlett and Showtime at an event that is supposedly pitting the top non-Koreans against the top Koreans? Scarlett brings world class whining and nothing else. Showtime isn't close to the player he was in 2016)
TY does play in some online tournaments. Take a look at one of the only major online tournaments: Master's Coliseum. -GuMiho won the 1st which included eliminating TY in the group stages. -GuMiho made the ro8 in the 2nd while TY was eliminated in the group stages though TY's group was by far the hardest. (he went 2-6 in maps though and finished last...)
I feel pain for those pros players who've tried to read this ranking. Probably it gives some dismoral for them.
Neeb is cool lil dude, no questions. I respect him, as like others. But from another side I can't say this is right thing to put him above Gumiho. Gumiho has a style. Unique style. And it's fair to say it. He got his nickname gumiGOD no just because it was a lame joke. Look what have he done. Created so many things for us and he won GSL. People copy him and calling him gumiGOD. While Neeb is just copying someone the whole year. And can't beat terran's ass on ladder. I watched so many ladder games with him against Maru (5-0 one day) or Cure (9-3 another day). It was a disaster for him. But somehow people saying, hey, he is better then Gumiho. It's wrong not to say from community to Gumiho that he is doing it right for so long time, and finlally he made it, he is on top.
On October 18 2017 09:55 engesser1 wrote: I feel pain for those pros players who've tried to read this ranking. Probably it gives some dismoral for them.
Neeb is cool lil dude, no questions. I respect him, as like others. But from another side I can't say this is right thing to put him above Gumiho. Gumiho has a style. Unique style. And it's fair to say it. He got his nickname gumiGOD no just because it was a lame joke. Look what have he done. Created so many things for us and he won GSL. People copy him and calling him gumiGOD. While Neeb is just copying someone the whole year. And can't beat terran's ass on ladder. I watched so many ladder games with him against Maru (5-0 one day) or Cure (9-3 another day). It was a disaster for him. But somehow people saying, hey, he is better then Gumiho. It's wrong not to say from community to Gumiho that he is doing it right for so long time, and finlally he made it, he is on top.
yup this article is clearly saying that Gumiho is a lame joke
I think so much is dependent on match ups/the groups - that it is pointless to get too hung up on 1-2 spot differences in power rankings. I get it.. they are fun, but in the end the players that can perform in the moment will be made clear in the next couple of weeks.
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.
It is known.
Some nice liquid bias you got going there. Otherwise you'd go to the next logical step that Flash beats Taeja H2H.
On October 18 2017 03:35 pvsnp wrote: They talk about the $$$. It was a well-paid showmatch.
At this point, I think it would be fairly straightforward to finalize the Terran hierarchy for 2017. Inno is unquestionably first. TY clearly takes second. After that though, it gets murkier. Maru, then Gumiho, then ByuN, then aLive, then Ryung, would be my ranking. But I can see how people could rank them differently.
Well, the power ranking should be more about current form then overall season achievements. TY clearly (imo) had a better year than gumiho but he didn't look particularly strong lately.
Gumiho's most recent offline trophy was winning GSL Season 2. Since then he has gotten no further than the Ro16 of any big tournament.
TY's most recent offline trophy was way back in March. But while Gumiho's been dropping out in the Ro16, TY has gotten to the quarterfinals of GSL S3, the semifinals of IEM Shanghai, and the finals of GSL vs the World.
Gumiho plays some online stuff, but TY basically never does, so it's hard to draw any conclusions from that. On the balance, I would put TY > Gumiho more than the other way around.
-TY's ro16 GSL S3 was by far the easiest of the 4, so getting one round further than GuMiho isn't that impressive. -That IEM Shanghai semifinals came off the back of beating Dark and nobody else of note. (Yes, he beat iAsonu which GuMiho didn't, but he had the benefit of being able to watch his ZvT before the series which GuMiho did not) -TY beat absolutely nobody of note at GSL vs The World and that tournament was a complete joke due to being a popularity contest. (Scarlett and Showtime at an event that is supposedly pitting the top non-Koreans against the top Koreans? Scarlett brings world class whining and nothing else. Showtime isn't close to the player he was in 2016)
TY does play in some online tournaments. Take a look at one of the only major online tournaments: Master's Coliseum. -GuMiho won the 1st which included eliminating TY in the group stages. -GuMiho made the ro8 in the 2nd while TY was eliminated in the group stages though TY's group was by far the hardest. (he went 2-6 in maps though and finished last...)
So, what I take from this is that....TY doesn't have the best results, but they are still better than Gumiho's. Offline > Online every day of the week.
Beating Dark in a series is quite the achievement, given that Dark is either the greatest or second-greatest Zerg currently playing. It's also something that Gumiho has never managed to do–Dark 8-0 Gumiho in career records. Also, TY beat Neeb and soO to get to the GSL vs the World finals. If you want to call soO, outside of a finals no less, "absolutely nobody of note" then I think it's safe to discount Gumiho's GSL Season 2 trophy as well.
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.
It is known.
Some nice liquid bias you got going there. Otherwise you'd go to the next logical step that Flash beats Taeja H2H.
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.
It is known.
TRUE beats Taeja head-to-head and TL had the nerve to put him 15th....smh
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.
It is known.
TRUE beats Taeja head-to-head and TL had the nerve to put him 15th....smh
Clearly another case of egregious Liquid bias.
TRUE is the one true GOAT. The throne is his by rights. All those who deny that are my foes.
On October 18 2017 03:35 pvsnp wrote: They talk about the $$$. It was a well-paid showmatch.
At this point, I think it would be fairly straightforward to finalize the Terran hierarchy for 2017. Inno is unquestionably first. TY clearly takes second. After that though, it gets murkier. Maru, then Gumiho, then ByuN, then aLive, then Ryung, would be my ranking. But I can see how people could rank them differently.
Well, the power ranking should be more about current form then overall season achievements. TY clearly (imo) had a better year than gumiho but he didn't look particularly strong lately.
Gumiho's most recent offline trophy was winning GSL Season 2. Since then he has gotten no further than the Ro16 of any big tournament.
TY's most recent offline trophy was way back in March. But while Gumiho's been dropping out in the Ro16, TY has gotten to the quarterfinals of GSL S3, the semifinals of IEM Shanghai, and the finals of GSL vs the World.
Gumiho plays some online stuff, but TY basically never does, so it's hard to draw any conclusions from that. On the balance, I would put TY > Gumiho more than the other way around.
-TY's ro16 GSL S3 was by far the easiest of the 4, so getting one round further than GuMiho isn't that impressive. -That IEM Shanghai semifinals came off the back of beating Dark and nobody else of note. (Yes, he beat iAsonu which GuMiho didn't, but he had the benefit of being able to watch his ZvT before the series which GuMiho did not) -TY beat absolutely nobody of note at GSL vs The World and that tournament was a complete joke due to being a popularity contest. (Scarlett and Showtime at an event that is supposedly pitting the top non-Koreans against the top Koreans? Scarlett brings world class whining and nothing else. Showtime isn't close to the player he was in 2016)
TY does play in some online tournaments. Take a look at one of the only major online tournaments: Master's Coliseum. -GuMiho won the 1st which included eliminating TY in the group stages. -GuMiho made the ro8 in the 2nd while TY was eliminated in the group stages though TY's group was by far the hardest. (he went 2-6 in maps though and finished last...)
So, what I take from this is that....TY doesn't have the best results, but they are still better than Gumiho's. Offline > Online every day of the week.
Beating Dark in a series is quite the achievement, given that Dark is either the greatest or second-greatest Zerg currently playing. It's also something that Gumiho has never managed to do–Dark 8-0 Gumiho in career records. Also, TY beat Neeb and soO to get to the GSL vs the World finals. If you want to call soO, outside of a finals no less, "absolutely nobody of note" then I think it's safe to discount Gumiho's GSL Season 2 trophy as well.
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.
It is known.
Some nice liquid bias you got going there. Otherwise you'd go to the next logical step that Flash beats Taeja H2H.
On October 18 2017 02:44 pvsnp wrote: Lmao at all this controversy. Maybe Gumiho is better than Neeb, maybe not. There's a reasonable argument to be made either way, and I expected Neeb to outrank at least one Korean in any case. Of all the Koreans, Gumiho's 2017 achievements are by far the least impressive. A single amazing run and nothing else does not a legend make. The fanboy rage is amusing, but immaterial.
Next spot could be Neeb, or TY, or soO.
A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.
It is known.
TRUE beats Taeja head-to-head and TL had the nerve to put him 15th....smh
On October 18 2017 02:52 Boggyb wrote: [quote] A single amazing run basically describes TY's 2017. Not only that, but TY's was 7 months ago compared to GuMiho's being approximately 4. In terms of current form, you can argue TY over GuMiho, but it isn't a super credible argument.
You realise that "one amazing run" is more accurate to describe Gumiho's year right? Over the entirety of 2017, Gumiho has 2 ro8 finishes and a win. TY has 3 ro8 finshes, a ro4, a final, and a win
2 wins, WESG too.
Oh yeah, I forgot about TY winning that bo7 showmatch against Maru. People never seem to talk about it on here for some reason
he also beat Neeb who is a better player than Gumiho
bringing us all back to the fact that the Unofficial World Champion is the only true way to measure Starcraft skill
Mvp was the GOAT but Inno beat him H2H so he is GOAT but Taeja beat him H2H so thefore Taeja confirmed GOAT.
It is known.
TRUE beats Taeja head-to-head and TL had the nerve to put him 15th....smh
Clearly another case of egregious Liquid bias.
TRUE is the one true GOAT. The throne is his by rights. All those who deny that are my foes.
Neeb has a good chance in his group with zergs. Probably he will never be solid like soO /or anyone else/, but soO never got enough energy left for the end of the years and worlds championsihps. Rogue is on fire. Still, Neeb looked so unreal and above all non-koreans this year. In order to be the best or one of the very very top in this game, you have to cross three phases. In the first phase you are just a very good and achieved player, like idra, huk, Stephano and etc. in the second phase is where Neeb stands right now. He knows how to fight with koreans and beats them. The third phase is where he must DOMINATE against korreans and he hasn't proved this yet. So Neeb holds his future and we shall see what is really made of. Winning Kespa cup is an achievement that we cannot compare it with anything else, I mean even Grrr.... is from another age of e-sports while metagame was still on its origin. Still Neeb misses the dominance and this is what is the next step of the evolution for him, because still no non-korean made it possible. Need only made something that Naniwa and Jinro couldn't in Code S.
This chat in the previous article with the rankings of Gumiho and Neeb was surprising. I am sure that both of them don't care that much. But who is more achieved? A Code S champion, and ALL-Kill in GSTL against all Slayers? Yeah, Gumiho was a shadow for all of those 7 years in Korea, but he is far more successful than Neeb, who still has a lot to prove. And he has the potential, but we will see.
All im saying is. Now that Life is gone and sOs is watching from home, Gumiho is the best player in the game in chaotic low econ situations. Gumiho is an agent of chaos and if he can introduce a little anarchy
I feel like Gumiho is this year's Neeb. He won a single tournament with amazing bracket luck, and then everyone overhyped him despite most of his results being mediocre (he only reached ro8 3 times in the whole year)