|
|
2 players from KR...this is gonna be WESG all over again
|
China6271 Posts
The Korean qualifier is going to be a bloodbath.
|
Not even the IEM world champion is invited/seeded? This is madness!
|
I guess we should've expected a disappointing format of the sort when we heard about the Olympic partnership. Any guesses as to who will represent Asia West and East?
|
Slot distribution seems fair given the number of participants. I'll never understand the people crying about Koreans being given "little" spots in a region-based system.
Asia West qualifiers is an early Christmas present for Demi. Asia East qualifiers is basically Sioras vs SEA & Taiwan.
|
On November 30 2017 02:07 ElusoryX wrote: Slot distribution seems fair given the number of participants. I'll never understand the people crying about Koreans being given "little" spots in a region-based system.
Asia West qualifiers is an early Christmas present for Demi. Asia East qualifiers is basically Sioras vs SEA & Taiwan. Well it's more than fair if we do this based on population and our goal is to have players all around the world compete in it. Based on regional strength this is absurd. This being connected to olympics the former priority makes sense i guess, i still would prefer the tournament to be created with competitiveness in mind though.
|
On November 30 2017 02:01 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I guess we should've expected a disappointing format of the sort when we heard about the Olympic partnership. Any guesses as to who will represent Asia West and East? East probably Has
|
Given the context with the Winter Olympics and everything, it would probably be a bad idea to have a mostly Korean lineup. 2 might be on the low side but if they're trying to make a tournament that's parallel to the olympics in any way, having even 25% (4/16) of the players coming from one country wouldn't look great.
On November 30 2017 01:06 DieuCure wrote: And the future winner is known to all of course. Cure?
|
So we're going with the Korean-qualifier-bloodbath into guaranteed-Korean-finals system for IEM, I see.
|
What is this? WESG? I know it is Olympics and all but still it is ridiculous to have only 2 Korean slots. It is hosted in South Korea for crying out loud.
What a waste this is. Another lame event to start 2018 (technically it is in 2017 but still).
|
Stephano gets a free spot again, he must be happy .
|
I don't see why anyone would be shocked that a tournament held AT THE OLYMPICS is gonna be international. Like wtf were you people expecting?
|
I'm wondering, who the player from Africa is gonna be. Anyone have any ideas?
|
United States32432 Posts
NA and SA getting same # of players, as it should be
|
Well, at least the funding is great...
But I dont see a reason to give Korea 4 slots. Even if you want to make it regional, there is so much top talent in korea, that you can give them more slots then just 2. Even little Jamaika is able to send more then one top sprinter to the olympics.
|
Were people crying that much at WCG back in the day about it not having 50% of Korean line-up too?
|
On November 30 2017 03:13 billynasty wrote: I'm wondering, who the player from Africa is gonna be. Anyone have any ideas? Probably Stephano, he has French and Tunisian citizenship if I'm not mistaken
|
On November 30 2017 03:58 aQuaSC wrote: Were people crying that much at WCG back in the day about it not having 50% of Korean line-up too? Na, but I think people have different expectations for IEM.
Everyone knew that ESWC and WCG were going for the Olympics feel, so there wasnt any crying.
|
On November 30 2017 03:49 Clonester wrote: Well, at least the funding is great...
But I dont see a reason to give Korea 4 slots. Even if you want to make it regional, there is so much top talent in korea, that you can give them more slots then just 2. Even little Jamaika is able to send more then one top sprinter to the olympics.
There are more than 16 sprinters competing in the Olympics though. Jamaica can send three + the reigning Olympic champion if he/she is Jamaican I believe.
|
Qualifiers will likely be closer than the main event, though it is always exciting when there's a possibility for a non-Korean to win a tournament!
|
Initially read "IEM Pyongyang"
|
5 for Europe but only 2 for Korea is pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Don't understand the need to separate into 5 different regions of Europe.
Also two for South America? Who is a pro from South America?
|
On November 30 2017 05:02 geokilla wrote:
Also two for South America? Who is a pro from South America?
Kelagod?
|
On November 30 2017 05:02 geokilla wrote: 5 for Europe but only 2 for Korea is pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Don't understand the need to separate into 5 different regions of Europe.
Also two for South America? Who is a pro from South America?
If Mexico is counted as SA country, as in WCS, Cham, SpeCial and Kelazhur to name just three.
|
Next month = WESG , IEM and GSL (?) qualifiers ...
On November 30 2017 05:17 MrWayne wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 05:02 geokilla wrote: 5 for Europe but only 2 for Korea is pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Don't understand the need to separate into 5 different regions of Europe.
Also two for South America? Who is a pro from South America? If Mexico is counted as SA country, as in WCS, Cham, SpeCial and Kelazhur to name just three.
No, Mexico with NA.
|
Canada8747 Posts
On November 30 2017 05:02 geokilla wrote: 5 for Europe but only 2 for Korea is pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Don't understand the need to separate into 5 different regions of Europe.
Also two for South America? Who is a pro from South America?
Kelazur and Erik are the most high profile, but you have BLord, Catz, Killer, Smile, and probably some others. Erik is actually pretty good as far as I remember him from Nation wars but he is always in a direct competition with Kelagod for one spot to qualify, or with the Mexicans for 2 or 3 spots, so we don't see him often.
Edit: HalfBreed, ByRada, Jarppi and Eggz also seems pretty good according to their Copa and Chalenger results, but they always lose to one of top guys, Kelazhur, Cham, or Major.SA with Mexico is probably stronger then NA (at least at the top).
We need Topin to give more inside information about the SA scene
|
I am tired of events being announced 2 weeks in advance
|
On November 30 2017 05:36 Nerchio wrote: I am tired of events being announced 2 weeks in advance
Only one week for some regions. :/
Combined with the winter holidays, there will probably be at least a few players unable to participate.
|
This distribution man lmao
|
On November 30 2017 04:52 JackONeill wrote: Initially read "IEM Pyongyang"
That would be quite the tournament!
|
On November 30 2017 07:11 Jeremy Reimer wrote:That would be quite the tournament!
It would be one way to enforce region-lock.
|
The central european qualifier will be stacked. Poland, Germany and the Netherlands all have players that could take the top spot.
|
Another tournament with only 2 koreans is annoying. Couldn't really have expected anything different from this event though. Guess it's gonna be another "real tournament is in the qualifiers" type of thing.
|
2 slots to NA when there are only 3 quality players from the region? (Neeb, SpeCial, and Cham) 2 slots to SA when there is only 1 quality player from the region? (Kelazhur) 5 for Europe?
South Korea should have at least 4 slots.
|
On November 30 2017 01:06 DieuCure wrote: IMO : 2 spots for South America and 5 Europe = waste
All of those players will be better than NA/Asia east+west/oceania players except Neeb so why are exactly these waste? That makes no sense.
Ofc Korea should have more based on playerstrength but im fine with the regional system
|
On November 30 2017 08:50 IArako wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 01:06 DieuCure wrote: IMO : 2 spots for South America and 5 Europe = waste All of those players will be better than NA/Asia east+west/oceania players except Neeb so why are exactly these waste? That makes no sense. Ofc Korea should have more SpeCial is an NA player. He's probably a top 4 non-Korean player, so there definitely aren't 2 SA and 5 Europeans better than him.
|
African slot for Stephano ! Yeah !! We might have two french players
|
I don't see what the fuss is about when it comes to a lack of Korean players at an Olympic style event. It's like saying that it's unfair that Canada can only send one hockey team to the Olympics even though Canada could probably ice at least 3 Olympic level teams.
S.Korea gets one player for their region and likely the second player is for being the "host country." Five players from Europe also makes sense given their population density and the number of countries these players need to represent. I'm fine with the player distribution. Whichever Korean ends up going to this thing is probably going to win it anyway and if you really need to get your Korean SC2 fix then just watch their qualifiers and skip the main tournament.
|
On November 30 2017 08:45 Boggyb wrote: 2 slots to NA when there are only 3 quality players from the region? (Neeb, SpeCial, and Cham) 2 slots to SA when there is only 1 quality player from the region? (Kelazhur) 5 for Europe?
South Korea should have at least 4 slots.
NA: Neeb, SpeCial, Cham, Scarlett, and possibly MaSa have a chance to win qualifying spots. Probably not the best set of players but definitely enough to justify 2 spots.
EU: I don't want to list all of them but look at the Ro16 from the WESG qualifiers. There's enough quality there to justify 5 spots.
SA: I agree with you. Aside from Kelazhur I don't know anyone else good enough to deserve that second spot.
Not to mention the fact that the Africa slot is going to go to a European anyway so....
|
lol I guess we will know who the two finalists are early.
|
On November 30 2017 09:22 zealotstim wrote: lol I guess we will know who the two finalists are early. Neeb and Special?
|
Wait.. why does Europe get 5 spots?? This is a joke. I expected a fair slot distribution as it's an Olympics associated event but why the hell does Europe get special treatment?
|
SA 2nd place could be ByRada(z) or Jarppi(t), maybe Ryu(z) if he plays. i havent heard anything abou KiLLeR in a while, im not sure if he is still playing.
p.s. is CatZ going to play?
|
I'm suprised no one's calling for the tournament to be all korean and then to do a foreigner event for the paralympics instead
|
I wonder why is it announced so late....
|
How about adding a global qualification?
|
On November 30 2017 09:42 Charoisaur wrote: Wait.. why does Europe get 5 spots?? This is a joke. I expected a fair slot distribution as it's an Olympics associated event but why the hell does Europe get special treatment?
That's the part you find unfair? And how is it special treatment? Asia also has five slots.
|
The Olympics is about international sportsmanship. NA has 3 countries, Europe has ~40. What I find surprising is the singular spot for Africa. That continent has a bunch of countries too. My guess for why is that the limited 16 players warrants higher quality of players, making the weak region of Africa get fewer spots despite having a lot of countries. In regular Olympics there are a lot of participants that are happy with just attending, even if they are sure to finish last. It is the international unity through sports that is the core of Olympics, not the competitiveness.
Being an IEM event there are conflicting aspects of intent. That has to affect the tournament as well.
|
On November 30 2017 09:11 breaker1328 wrote: I don't see what the fuss is about when it comes to a lack of Korean players at an Olympic style event. It's like saying that it's unfair that Canada can only send one hockey team to the Olympics even though Canada could probably ice at least 3 Olympic level teams.
S.Korea gets one player for their region and likely the second player is for being the "host country." Five players from Europe also makes sense given their population density and the number of countries these players need to represent. I'm fine with the player distribution. Whichever Korean ends up going to this thing is probably going to win it anyway and if you really need to get your Korean SC2 fix then just watch their qualifiers and skip the main tournament.
I agree with that. If anything I could see scratching EU central and giving another spot to AUS, seeing how SA has two spots.
I think what's really unfortunate is the timing with WESG around the corner which basically has the same format.
|
On November 30 2017 09:50 Fango wrote: I'm suprised no one's calling for the tournament to be all korean and then to do a foreigner event for the paralympics instead
You just won the thread
|
|
On November 30 2017 21:10 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 09:50 Fango wrote: I'm suprised no one's calling for the tournament to be all korean and then to do a foreigner event for the paralympics instead You just won the thread
This is hilarious
|
So they're going for a South American region, not Latin..
Who will qualify besides Kelazhur, does Catz still compete?
On November 30 2017 09:50 Fango wrote: I'm suprised no one's calling for the tournament to be all korean and then to do a foreigner event for the paralympics instead
Usopsama will worship the ground you walk on
|
The Koreans who get out of the qualifier will be the absolute bests and they will stomp everyone hard in the main event, it’s not even exciting to watch.
|
On November 30 2017 21:58 ParksonVN wrote: The Koreans who get out of the qualifier will be the absolute bests and they will stomp everyone hard in the main event, it’s not even exciting to watch.
I strongly disagree. there is no such thing as absolute best among koreans. Innovation was supposed to be, and well, it didn't go so well at Blizzcon. And then recent event have shown good games between koreans and foreigners. Their is still a gap and at least one korean should make it to the final, but seeing one of the two lose to Neeb, Special, Serral (huge form recently), or hell even DNS or Denver (I know French bias obviously) who perform incredibly well in the last weeks could happen. And in any case, the confrontation is always interesting, at least to assess how much of the gap there is still to close. The more we have korean/foreigners games, the more we know about it. And sure you'll be the first of saying "oh look it was 3-1 and 3-0 only, not even close", without even watching one game which should be pretty close. At least it was in recent event, with foreigners taking games and matches out of very good koreans.
|
On November 30 2017 22:16 LDaVinci wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 21:58 ParksonVN wrote: The Koreans who get out of the qualifier will be the absolute bests and they will stomp everyone hard in the main event, it’s not even exciting to watch. I strongly disagree. there is no such thing as absolute best among koreans. Innovation was supposed to be, and well, it didn't go so well at Blizzcon. And then recent event have shown good games between koreans and foreigners. Their is still a gap and at least one korean should make it to the final, but seeing one of the two lose to Neeb, Special, Serral (huge form recently), or hell even DNS or Denver (I know French bias obviously) who perform incredibly well in the last weeks could happen. And in any case, the confrontation is always interesting, at least to assess how much of the gap there is still to close. The more we have korean/foreigners games, the more we know about it. And sure you'll be the first of saying "oh look it was 3-1 and 3-0 only, not even close", without even watching one game which should be pretty close. At least it was in recent event, with foreigners taking games and matches out of very good koreans.
Do i need to remind you about the last WESG ? Yes Inno didn't win Blizzcon but it took a top Korean to stop him, Rogue on other hand lost 1-2 vs Neeb just before he found out the way to beat him 2-0 later. I haven't seen a foreigner wins against top 3 Koreans in a bo5, remember we are talking about the very top Korean who are Inno, Rogue, TY.
|
On November 30 2017 22:30 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 22:16 LDaVinci wrote:On November 30 2017 21:58 ParksonVN wrote: The Koreans who get out of the qualifier will be the absolute bests and they will stomp everyone hard in the main event, it’s not even exciting to watch. I strongly disagree. there is no such thing as absolute best among koreans. Innovation was supposed to be, and well, it didn't go so well at Blizzcon. And then recent event have shown good games between koreans and foreigners. Their is still a gap and at least one korean should make it to the final, but seeing one of the two lose to Neeb, Special, Serral (huge form recently), or hell even DNS or Denver (I know French bias obviously) who perform incredibly well in the last weeks could happen. And in any case, the confrontation is always interesting, at least to assess how much of the gap there is still to close. The more we have korean/foreigners games, the more we know about it. And sure you'll be the first of saying "oh look it was 3-1 and 3-0 only, not even close", without even watching one game which should be pretty close. At least it was in recent event, with foreigners taking games and matches out of very good koreans. Do i need to remind you about the last WESG ? Yes Inno didn't win Blizzcon but it took a top Korean to stop him, Rogue on other hand lost 1-2 vs Neeb just before he found out the way to beat him 2-0 later. I haven't seen a foreigner wins against top 3 Koreans in a bo5, remember we are talking about the very top Korean who are Inno, Rogue, TY. yeah some dude on Reddit made a thread about the winrates of foreigners vs koreans in bo5. It was pretty low.
|
On November 30 2017 22:30 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 22:16 LDaVinci wrote:On November 30 2017 21:58 ParksonVN wrote: The Koreans who get out of the qualifier will be the absolute bests and they will stomp everyone hard in the main event, it’s not even exciting to watch. I strongly disagree. there is no such thing as absolute best among koreans. Innovation was supposed to be, and well, it didn't go so well at Blizzcon. And then recent event have shown good games between koreans and foreigners. Their is still a gap and at least one korean should make it to the final, but seeing one of the two lose to Neeb, Special, Serral (huge form recently), or hell even DNS or Denver (I know French bias obviously) who perform incredibly well in the last weeks could happen. And in any case, the confrontation is always interesting, at least to assess how much of the gap there is still to close. The more we have korean/foreigners games, the more we know about it. And sure you'll be the first of saying "oh look it was 3-1 and 3-0 only, not even close", without even watching one game which should be pretty close. At least it was in recent event, with foreigners taking games and matches out of very good koreans. Do i need to remind you about the last WESG ? Yes Inno didn't win Blizzcon but it took a top Korean to stop him, Rogue on other hand lost 1-2 vs Neeb just before he found out the way to beat him 2-0 later. I haven't seen a foreigner wins against top 3 Koreans in a bo5, remember we are talking about the very top Korean who are Inno, Rogue, TY.
I can't see where you contradict any of my points. The gae should be interesting even if koreans win the whole tournaments. And even a 3-0 victory can be done after 3 really intense and tense games
|
Because wesg 2016 was interesting ?
Stop fooling yourself, guys like you are ruining kr scene.
|
On November 30 2017 23:38 DieuCure wrote: Because wesg 2016 was interesting ?
Stop fooling yourself, guys like you are ruining kr scene.
literally the reason proleague didn't continue how could you
|
On November 30 2017 23:41 GoloSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 23:38 DieuCure wrote: Because wesg 2016 was interesting ?
Stop fooling yourself, guys like you are ruining kr scene. literally the reason proleague didn't continue how could you
Yes I should be blame on the fact koreans don't watch SC2. It's all my fault, I've got to admit it. And silly me, I didn't watch proleague or GSL during day time because I was at work, what was I thinking ? Sorry to want to watch European play and to get excited when foreigners play at top level.
Guys like you are an insult to intelligence.
Blizzcon was fun and interesting and it was only few weeks ago. In a year, foreigners showed they can improve a lot when there is the money incentive. They are not at top korean level yet, but neither are most koreans... you know the difference between top 4 5 korean and the rest. Top foreigners are good enough to show great games against the top koreans though. You know Denver just beat Impact and hero in Ting event. Sure they are probably not the hottest koreans right now and they maybe had lags, but this was unthinkable a year ago. Foreigners are improving fast.
And btw I don't care about developping the kr scene. I mean they have two major tournaments to earn money, plus some big events. For just one country that's not even that populated (less than germany). Region lock was the best decision of blizzard ever. 5 years ago, koreans where trusting all the tournaments, and the koreans who where playing in NA or EU where not even the best of them (except 1 or 2). Now the foreigners can improve and get money. The level is increasing tremendously.
Guys like you are the reason of the skill gap between kr and EU/NA
|
Guys like TL moderation is why DieuCure isn't banned yet.
|
Most of KR pro are better than the average wcs circuit player, but they can't make a living off WCS korea, so yes, people like you are supporting the extreme region lock idea, then Code S ro 32 is weak.
|
Will this give WCS points?
Unless it's a 3rd tier event, it shouldn't.
|
On December 01 2017 00:08 LDaVinci wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 23:41 GoloSC2 wrote:On November 30 2017 23:38 DieuCure wrote: Because wesg 2016 was interesting ?
Stop fooling yourself, guys like you are ruining kr scene. literally the reason proleague didn't continue how could you Yes I should be blame on the fact koreans don't watch SC2. It's all my fault, I've got to admit it. And silly me, I didn't watch proleague or GSL during day time because I was at work, what was I thinking ? Sorry to want to watch European play and to get excited when foreigners play at top level. Guys like you are an insult to intelligence. Blizzcon was fun and interesting and it was only few weeks ago. In a year, foreigners showed they can improve a lot when there is the money incentive. They are not at top korean level yet, but neither are most koreans... you know the difference between top 4 5 korean and the rest. Top foreigners are good enough to show great games against the top koreans though. You know Denver just beat Impact and hero in Ting event. Sure they are probably not the hottest koreans right now and they maybe had lags, but this was unthinkable a year ago. Foreigners are improving fast. And btw I don't care about developping the kr scene. I mean they have two major tournaments to earn money, plus some big events. For just one country that's not even that populated (less than germany). Region lock was the best decision of blizzard ever. 5 years ago, koreans where trusting all the tournaments, and the koreans who where playing in NA or EU where not even the best of them (except 1 or 2). Now the foreigners can improve and get money. The level is increasing tremendously. Guys like you are the reason of the skill gap between kr and EU/NA
people like you: 1/ Dont care about Korean scene (basically like love football but dont give a shit about European Champion league) 2/ Dont watch GSL or Korean tournaments 3/ Always say the best players are some foreign dudes 4/ Cheer for Korean to lose 5/ Hype about AMAZING level of plays by foreigners
People like you make me enjoy watching foreigners get rekted at big tournaments so much <3 I still remember the sweet moment when all the American audiences silently watched Neeb got 0-3ed cruelly by Dark at last year Blizzcon <3
|
How did 'Koreans are so good, they can NEVER lose vs foreigner and should therefore have more players at IEM' turn into 'Korean sc2 is dying'?
Top Koreans are generally better than the rest of the world. That doesn't mean they will always win (lucky me that Dark lost vs a foreigner at Blizzcon :p ). We will probably have a Korean in the grand final, but it isn't a certainty. The way to the final match is the interesting part. We are (or at least I am) viewers. We watch the games. Watching the games is the exciting part. It is also the part that lures sponsors who bring money into the sport, making it possible to have professional gamers. The statistics is secondary in this case, and raw match wins or even game scores isn't the whole story. Did anyone watch Maru vs Zest in code A? Zest won 3-0, but it was the most even match in all of GSL that I can remember. The games were also thrilling to watch, with long macro games and several nukes. My favourite game ended with a gas broke Zest warping in 40 zealots vs Maru's bio. The match ended 3-0. Maru didn't know how to defeat Zest. Zest played better. The games were amazing.
These kinds of games are possible with a better player vs an inferior player. The inferior player might even win, but if the inferior player loses we have a new shot in the next map. The tourney continues and we, the viewers, will get our games.
|
Would've thought there would be 1 spot for SA, and possibly 4 for EU to get 4 spots for KR, but it could be worse I guess.
|
8713 Posts
For people that just want to watch high level games, you've got a lot of the best Koreans streaming their practice and showing some really good play and experimental strats etc. There are 2+ good players of each race streaming nowadays and saving the vods, so sub to them so you have access to vods and you get a steady stream of high level play at your convenience. Like watching Zest? There are literally 100+ games of him on his twitch vod page right now. Sub and donate to support, enjoy the excellent content.
As for the tournament director's decisions, it's hard enough making a successful esports business atm. Lots of investors/interest nowadays but not a lot of people figuring out how to be profitable and sustainable. If they've put everything together and they're risking their own careers/money, then they've earned the right to decide what they think is best for their event. If anyone thinks there's a huge opportunity being missed because Korean SC2 player talent is being undervalued, then start your own business or get involved somehow and make it happen. I think it's fair to say that TotalBiscuit has done that and it's been really awesome for the community and has put more money in the pockets of the best players while still giving other players a chance.
|
On November 30 2017 03:58 aQuaSC wrote: Were people crying that much at WCG back in the day about it not having 50% of Korean line-up too?
False equivalence; WCG always had that format. For IEM it's considered a bad change.
Also WCG had become a joke in its final years, just saying.
|
On December 01 2017 00:08 LDaVinci wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 23:41 GoloSC2 wrote:On November 30 2017 23:38 DieuCure wrote: Because wesg 2016 was interesting ?
Stop fooling yourself, guys like you are ruining kr scene. literally the reason proleague didn't continue how could you Yes I should be blame on the fact koreans don't watch SC2. It's all my fault, I've got to admit it. And silly me, I didn't watch proleague or GSL during day time because I was at work, what was I thinking ? Sorry to want to watch European play and to get excited when foreigners play at top level. Guys like you are an insult to intelligence. Blizzcon was fun and interesting and it was only few weeks ago. In a year, foreigners showed they can improve a lot when there is the money incentive. They are not at top korean level yet, but neither are most koreans... you know the difference between top 4 5 korean and the rest. Top foreigners are good enough to show great games against the top koreans though. You know Denver just beat Impact and hero in Ting event. Sure they are probably not the hottest koreans right now and they maybe had lags, but this was unthinkable a year ago. Foreigners are improving fast. And btw I don't care about developping the kr scene. I mean they have two major tournaments to earn money, plus some big events. For just one country that's not even that populated (less than germany). Region lock was the best decision of blizzard ever. 5 years ago, koreans where trusting all the tournaments, and the koreans who where playing in NA or EU where not even the best of them (except 1 or 2). Now the foreigners can improve and get money. The level is increasing tremendously. Guys like you are the reason of the skill gap between kr and EU/NA
in case you meant me: i was making fun of dieucure's ridiculous statement, i thought that would come across
|
I really hoped 2018 would give is more tourneys where (more than 2) high level Koreans would duke it out against the foreigners, I feel that has been lacking the last few years. But instead it looks like there's going to be 1 less of those instead.
So allow me to cry a little pls
|
On December 01 2017 01:49 GoloSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 00:08 LDaVinci wrote:On November 30 2017 23:41 GoloSC2 wrote:On November 30 2017 23:38 DieuCure wrote: Because wesg 2016 was interesting ?
Stop fooling yourself, guys like you are ruining kr scene. literally the reason proleague didn't continue how could you Yes I should be blame on the fact koreans don't watch SC2. It's all my fault, I've got to admit it. And silly me, I didn't watch proleague or GSL during day time because I was at work, what was I thinking ? Sorry to want to watch European play and to get excited when foreigners play at top level. Guys like you are an insult to intelligence. Blizzcon was fun and interesting and it was only few weeks ago. In a year, foreigners showed they can improve a lot when there is the money incentive. They are not at top korean level yet, but neither are most koreans... you know the difference between top 4 5 korean and the rest. Top foreigners are good enough to show great games against the top koreans though. You know Denver just beat Impact and hero in Ting event. Sure they are probably not the hottest koreans right now and they maybe had lags, but this was unthinkable a year ago. Foreigners are improving fast. And btw I don't care about developping the kr scene. I mean they have two major tournaments to earn money, plus some big events. For just one country that's not even that populated (less than germany). Region lock was the best decision of blizzard ever. 5 years ago, koreans where trusting all the tournaments, and the koreans who where playing in NA or EU where not even the best of them (except 1 or 2). Now the foreigners can improve and get money. The level is increasing tremendously. Guys like you are the reason of the skill gap between kr and EU/NA in case you meant me: i was making fun of dieucure's ridiculous statement, i thought that would come across
Don't worry that was pretty clear ;-)
Those guys are pretty much jokes. Korean fanboys who view them as litteral gods. Koreans are still the best, but how can you actually blame someone for not watching GSL when it's during working hours. I don't know who they actually are, but when they'll get a life, it will be hard for them !
|
On December 01 2017 01:56 LDaVinci wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 01:49 GoloSC2 wrote:On December 01 2017 00:08 LDaVinci wrote:On November 30 2017 23:41 GoloSC2 wrote:On November 30 2017 23:38 DieuCure wrote: Because wesg 2016 was interesting ?
Stop fooling yourself, guys like you are ruining kr scene. literally the reason proleague didn't continue how could you Yes I should be blame on the fact koreans don't watch SC2. It's all my fault, I've got to admit it. And silly me, I didn't watch proleague or GSL during day time because I was at work, what was I thinking ? Sorry to want to watch European play and to get excited when foreigners play at top level. Guys like you are an insult to intelligence. Blizzcon was fun and interesting and it was only few weeks ago. In a year, foreigners showed they can improve a lot when there is the money incentive. They are not at top korean level yet, but neither are most koreans... you know the difference between top 4 5 korean and the rest. Top foreigners are good enough to show great games against the top koreans though. You know Denver just beat Impact and hero in Ting event. Sure they are probably not the hottest koreans right now and they maybe had lags, but this was unthinkable a year ago. Foreigners are improving fast. And btw I don't care about developping the kr scene. I mean they have two major tournaments to earn money, plus some big events. For just one country that's not even that populated (less than germany). Region lock was the best decision of blizzard ever. 5 years ago, koreans where trusting all the tournaments, and the koreans who where playing in NA or EU where not even the best of them (except 1 or 2). Now the foreigners can improve and get money. The level is increasing tremendously. Guys like you are the reason of the skill gap between kr and EU/NA in case you meant me: i was making fun of dieucure's ridiculous statement, i thought that would come across Don't worry that was pretty clear ;-) Those guys are pretty much jokes. Korean fanboys who view them as litteral gods. Koreans are still the best, but how can you actually blame someone for not watching GSL when it's during working hours. I don't know who they actually are, but when they'll get a life, it will be hard for them !
Can't speak to DieuCure in particular but you do know there are people in this world who work from home right?
Also, timezones.
Also, different shifts other than morning to afternoon.
Just saying buddy, you're looking mighty silly implying someone has no life just because they get to watch GSL live...
|
On December 01 2017 02:11 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 01:56 LDaVinci wrote:On December 01 2017 01:49 GoloSC2 wrote:On December 01 2017 00:08 LDaVinci wrote:On November 30 2017 23:41 GoloSC2 wrote:On November 30 2017 23:38 DieuCure wrote: Because wesg 2016 was interesting ?
Stop fooling yourself, guys like you are ruining kr scene. literally the reason proleague didn't continue how could you Yes I should be blame on the fact koreans don't watch SC2. It's all my fault, I've got to admit it. And silly me, I didn't watch proleague or GSL during day time because I was at work, what was I thinking ? Sorry to want to watch European play and to get excited when foreigners play at top level. Guys like you are an insult to intelligence. Blizzcon was fun and interesting and it was only few weeks ago. In a year, foreigners showed they can improve a lot when there is the money incentive. They are not at top korean level yet, but neither are most koreans... you know the difference between top 4 5 korean and the rest. Top foreigners are good enough to show great games against the top koreans though. You know Denver just beat Impact and hero in Ting event. Sure they are probably not the hottest koreans right now and they maybe had lags, but this was unthinkable a year ago. Foreigners are improving fast. And btw I don't care about developping the kr scene. I mean they have two major tournaments to earn money, plus some big events. For just one country that's not even that populated (less than germany). Region lock was the best decision of blizzard ever. 5 years ago, koreans where trusting all the tournaments, and the koreans who where playing in NA or EU where not even the best of them (except 1 or 2). Now the foreigners can improve and get money. The level is increasing tremendously. Guys like you are the reason of the skill gap between kr and EU/NA in case you meant me: i was making fun of dieucure's ridiculous statement, i thought that would come across Don't worry that was pretty clear ;-) Those guys are pretty much jokes. Korean fanboys who view them as litteral gods. Koreans are still the best, but how can you actually blame someone for not watching GSL when it's during working hours. I don't know who they actually are, but when they'll get a life, it will be hard for them ! Can't speak to DieuCure in particular but you do know there are people in this world who work from home right? Also, timezones. Also, different shifts other than morning to afternoon. Just saying buddy, you're looking mighty silly implying someone has no life just because they get to watch GSL live... Eh, what? So the two people who watch GSL and Proleague who work from home should be respected more than some majority? I have maybe watched on 2 or 3 occasions GSL and/or Proleague since I started working fulltime - even tho I often enough work from home because you know ... I'm working ...
It is still funny to see how this scene is dismantling itself with all those entitled elitist on both sides of the argument. Why can't we just enjoy what we want and let people enjoy what they do...
Far more concerning is, what Nerchio stated in this thread but hey, lets talk about the distribution of KR vs Rest.
|
On November 30 2017 18:07 Drfilip wrote: The Olympics is about international sportsmanship. NA has 3 countries, Europe has ~40. What I find surprising is the singular spot for Africa. That continent has a bunch of countries too. My guess for why is that the limited 16 players warrants higher quality of players, making the weak region of Africa get fewer spots despite having a lot of countries. In regular Olympics there are a lot of participants that are happy with just attending, even if they are sure to finish last. It is the international unity through sports that is the core of Olympics, not the competitiveness.
Being an IEM event there are conflicting aspects of intent. That has to affect the tournament as well.
NA has 20-some countries. Most of them are pretty irrelevant tbf.
|
On December 01 2017 02:24 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 02:11 207aicila wrote:On December 01 2017 01:56 LDaVinci wrote:On December 01 2017 01:49 GoloSC2 wrote:On December 01 2017 00:08 LDaVinci wrote:On November 30 2017 23:41 GoloSC2 wrote:On November 30 2017 23:38 DieuCure wrote: Because wesg 2016 was interesting ?
Stop fooling yourself, guys like you are ruining kr scene. literally the reason proleague didn't continue how could you Yes I should be blame on the fact koreans don't watch SC2. It's all my fault, I've got to admit it. And silly me, I didn't watch proleague or GSL during day time because I was at work, what was I thinking ? Sorry to want to watch European play and to get excited when foreigners play at top level. Guys like you are an insult to intelligence. Blizzcon was fun and interesting and it was only few weeks ago. In a year, foreigners showed they can improve a lot when there is the money incentive. They are not at top korean level yet, but neither are most koreans... you know the difference between top 4 5 korean and the rest. Top foreigners are good enough to show great games against the top koreans though. You know Denver just beat Impact and hero in Ting event. Sure they are probably not the hottest koreans right now and they maybe had lags, but this was unthinkable a year ago. Foreigners are improving fast. And btw I don't care about developping the kr scene. I mean they have two major tournaments to earn money, plus some big events. For just one country that's not even that populated (less than germany). Region lock was the best decision of blizzard ever. 5 years ago, koreans where trusting all the tournaments, and the koreans who where playing in NA or EU where not even the best of them (except 1 or 2). Now the foreigners can improve and get money. The level is increasing tremendously. Guys like you are the reason of the skill gap between kr and EU/NA in case you meant me: i was making fun of dieucure's ridiculous statement, i thought that would come across Don't worry that was pretty clear ;-) Those guys are pretty much jokes. Korean fanboys who view them as litteral gods. Koreans are still the best, but how can you actually blame someone for not watching GSL when it's during working hours. I don't know who they actually are, but when they'll get a life, it will be hard for them ! Can't speak to DieuCure in particular but you do know there are people in this world who work from home right? Also, timezones. Also, different shifts other than morning to afternoon. Just saying buddy, you're looking mighty silly implying someone has no life just because they get to watch GSL live... Eh, what? So the two people who watch GSL and Proleague who work from home should be respected more than some majority? I have maybe watched on 2 or 3 occasions GSL and/or Proleague since I started working fulltime - even tho I often enough work from home because you know ... I'm working ... It is still funny to see how this scene is dismantling itself with all those entitled elitist on both sides of the argument. Why can't we just enjoy what we want and let people enjoy what they do... Far more concerning is, what Nerchio stated in this thread but hey, lets talk about the distribution of KR vs Rest.
I am constantly fascinated by people like this who feel the need to boast against them having to work. I mean sure, I see how that is the life situation of a majority of people - but that sucks for them and what the hell is there to be so righteous about it? I am 35, I have a great life (within the boundaries set by my genetics) and have watched countless GSLs and PLs live, because I enjoy that very much and because I am able to get my life together in way that makes it possible.
The fact that you are part of the majority doesn't mean that you aren't a loser.
|
On December 01 2017 02:24 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 02:11 207aicila wrote:On December 01 2017 01:56 LDaVinci wrote:On December 01 2017 01:49 GoloSC2 wrote:On December 01 2017 00:08 LDaVinci wrote:On November 30 2017 23:41 GoloSC2 wrote:On November 30 2017 23:38 DieuCure wrote: Because wesg 2016 was interesting ?
Stop fooling yourself, guys like you are ruining kr scene. literally the reason proleague didn't continue how could you Yes I should be blame on the fact koreans don't watch SC2. It's all my fault, I've got to admit it. And silly me, I didn't watch proleague or GSL during day time because I was at work, what was I thinking ? Sorry to want to watch European play and to get excited when foreigners play at top level. Guys like you are an insult to intelligence. Blizzcon was fun and interesting and it was only few weeks ago. In a year, foreigners showed they can improve a lot when there is the money incentive. They are not at top korean level yet, but neither are most koreans... you know the difference between top 4 5 korean and the rest. Top foreigners are good enough to show great games against the top koreans though. You know Denver just beat Impact and hero in Ting event. Sure they are probably not the hottest koreans right now and they maybe had lags, but this was unthinkable a year ago. Foreigners are improving fast. And btw I don't care about developping the kr scene. I mean they have two major tournaments to earn money, plus some big events. For just one country that's not even that populated (less than germany). Region lock was the best decision of blizzard ever. 5 years ago, koreans where trusting all the tournaments, and the koreans who where playing in NA or EU where not even the best of them (except 1 or 2). Now the foreigners can improve and get money. The level is increasing tremendously. Guys like you are the reason of the skill gap between kr and EU/NA in case you meant me: i was making fun of dieucure's ridiculous statement, i thought that would come across Don't worry that was pretty clear ;-) Those guys are pretty much jokes. Korean fanboys who view them as litteral gods. Koreans are still the best, but how can you actually blame someone for not watching GSL when it's during working hours. I don't know who they actually are, but when they'll get a life, it will be hard for them ! Can't speak to DieuCure in particular but you do know there are people in this world who work from home right? Also, timezones. Also, different shifts other than morning to afternoon. Just saying buddy, you're looking mighty silly implying someone has no life just because they get to watch GSL live... Eh, what? So the two people who watch GSL and Proleague who work from home should be respected more than some majority? I have maybe watched on 2 or 3 occasions GSL and/or Proleague since I started working fulltime - even tho I often enough work from home because you know ... I'm working ...
Where did I say they should be respected more? I just said they should not be DISrespected, which is what LLDaVinci was doing, alongside his petty and ignorant generalizations...
FWIW I also agree with opisska's post above.
|
On December 01 2017 01:08 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 00:08 LDaVinci wrote:On November 30 2017 23:41 GoloSC2 wrote:On November 30 2017 23:38 DieuCure wrote: Because wesg 2016 was interesting ?
Stop fooling yourself, guys like you are ruining kr scene. literally the reason proleague didn't continue how could you Yes I should be blame on the fact koreans don't watch SC2. It's all my fault, I've got to admit it. And silly me, I didn't watch proleague or GSL during day time because I was at work, what was I thinking ? Sorry to want to watch European play and to get excited when foreigners play at top level. Guys like you are an insult to intelligence. Blizzcon was fun and interesting and it was only few weeks ago. In a year, foreigners showed they can improve a lot when there is the money incentive. They are not at top korean level yet, but neither are most koreans... you know the difference between top 4 5 korean and the rest. Top foreigners are good enough to show great games against the top koreans though. You know Denver just beat Impact and hero in Ting event. Sure they are probably not the hottest koreans right now and they maybe had lags, but this was unthinkable a year ago. Foreigners are improving fast. And btw I don't care about developping the kr scene. I mean they have two major tournaments to earn money, plus some big events. For just one country that's not even that populated (less than germany). Region lock was the best decision of blizzard ever. 5 years ago, koreans where trusting all the tournaments, and the koreans who where playing in NA or EU where not even the best of them (except 1 or 2). Now the foreigners can improve and get money. The level is increasing tremendously. Guys like you are the reason of the skill gap between kr and EU/NA people like you: 1/ Dont care about Korean scene (basically like love football but dont give a shit about European Champion league) 2/ Dont watch GSL or Korean tournaments 3/ Always say the best players are some foreign dudes 4/ Cheer for Korean to lose 5/ Hype about AMAZING level of plays by foreigners People like you make me enjoy watching foreigners get rekted at big tournaments so much <3 I still remember the sweet moment when all the American audiences silently watched Neeb got 0-3ed cruelly by Dark at last year Blizzcon <3
Wow, well said little soldier.
On December 01 2017 01:56 LDaVinci wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 01:49 GoloSC2 wrote:On December 01 2017 00:08 LDaVinci wrote:On November 30 2017 23:41 GoloSC2 wrote:On November 30 2017 23:38 DieuCure wrote: Because wesg 2016 was interesting ?
Stop fooling yourself, guys like you are ruining kr scene. literally the reason proleague didn't continue how could you Yes I should be blame on the fact koreans don't watch SC2. It's all my fault, I've got to admit it. And silly me, I didn't watch proleague or GSL during day time because I was at work, what was I thinking ? Sorry to want to watch European play and to get excited when foreigners play at top level. Guys like you are an insult to intelligence. Blizzcon was fun and interesting and it was only few weeks ago. In a year, foreigners showed they can improve a lot when there is the money incentive. They are not at top korean level yet, but neither are most koreans... you know the difference between top 4 5 korean and the rest. Top foreigners are good enough to show great games against the top koreans though. You know Denver just beat Impact and hero in Ting event. Sure they are probably not the hottest koreans right now and they maybe had lags, but this was unthinkable a year ago. Foreigners are improving fast. And btw I don't care about developping the kr scene. I mean they have two major tournaments to earn money, plus some big events. For just one country that's not even that populated (less than germany). Region lock was the best decision of blizzard ever. 5 years ago, koreans where trusting all the tournaments, and the koreans who where playing in NA or EU where not even the best of them (except 1 or 2). Now the foreigners can improve and get money. The level is increasing tremendously. Guys like you are the reason of the skill gap between kr and EU/NA in case you meant me: i was making fun of dieucure's ridiculous statement, i thought that would come across Don't worry that was pretty clear ;-) Those guys are pretty much jokes. Korean fanboys who view them as litteral gods. Koreans are still the best, but how can you actually blame someone for not watching GSL when it's during working hours. I don't know who they actually are, but when they'll get a life, it will be hard for them !
It's absolutely baseless. "You are a complete no life if you dont think like me btw".
Smarter than me i guess
|
I didn't think there were so many people still around dumb enough to get baited by DieuCure...
|
On December 01 2017 02:47 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I didn't think there were so many people still around dumb enough to get baited by DieuCure...
I guess I didn't know the phenomenon. Now I know.
I am constantly fascinated by people like this who feel the need to boast against them having to work. I mean sure, I see how that is the life situation of a majority of people - but that sucks for them and what the hell is there to be so righteous about it? I am 35, I have a great life (within the boundaries set by my genetics) and have watched countless GSLs and PLs live, because I enjoy that very much and because I am able to get my life together in way that makes it possible.
The fact that you are part of the majority doesn't mean that you aren't a loser.
For the work hour discussion. I don't disrespect anyone except those who are disrespectful. Just to say that those guys started saying I was to blame because I work basically. So yeah I don't have to respect them for any reason.
Now I know I've been trolled, good for them.
|
My opinion on the European Qualifier:
I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out.
If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it.
On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot.
In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot.
The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa).
And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition.
So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too.
The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it.
|
On November 30 2017 09:33 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 09:22 zealotstim wrote: lol I guess we will know who the two finalists are early. Neeb and Special?
Haha, fair enough. Still, it's disappointing to see so few participants from the strongest region.
|
On December 01 2017 05:24 zealotstim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2017 09:33 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On November 30 2017 09:22 zealotstim wrote: lol I guess we will know who the two finalists are early. Neeb and Special? Haha, fair enough. Still, it's disappointing to see so few participants from the strongest region. That's true, two isn't enough. Scarlett should be there too
|
United States32432 Posts
Ionno why people are so mad, when this was the standard international tournament/IEM format for all of StarCraft II history until like 2016.
|
On December 01 2017 06:00 Waxangel wrote: Ionno why people are so mad, when this was the standard international tournament/IEM format for all of StarCraft II history until like 2016. Residency/citizenship locked qualifiers and tournament spots for Africa & parts of Asia that aren't South Korea or China doesn't sound like the IEMs I remember I have to say.
|
On December 01 2017 06:20 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 06:00 Waxangel wrote: Ionno why people are so mad, when this was the standard international tournament/IEM format for all of StarCraft II history until like 2016. Residency/citizenship locked qualifiers and tournament spots for Africa & parts of Asia that aren't South Korea or China doesn't sound like the IEMs I remember I have to say.
Gotta have those spots dedicated to Stephano, Demilove, and some player from Southern Europe no one's ever heard of.
|
On December 01 2017 04:18 OHGRinho wrote:My opinion on the European Qualifier: I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out. If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it. On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot. In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot. The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa). And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition. So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too. The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it. The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions. If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean.
|
On December 01 2017 07:04 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 04:18 OHGRinho wrote:My opinion on the European Qualifier: I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out. If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it. On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot. In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot. The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa). And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition. So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too. The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it. The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions. If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean.
Ehhh... there's still a difference between aiming for diversity and rewarding local scenes, and blindly dividing up regions where scenes don't even exist. Even if you had a single qualifier with 5 spots for all of Europe you'd probably still end up with 4 different countries, and better players.
|
On December 01 2017 07:04 Charoisaur wrote:
The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions. If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean.
Since you missed my point entirely, i'll repeat myself: "The region split within Europe is bollocks. The European pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities."
I underlay my point with this: 4/4 WCS EU qualifiers seeded at least three different nationalities in the semifinals. 2/4 seeded four different nationalities in the semifinals.
In other words, the best European players from 2017 are from different nations already. And on a sidenote: Nations in Europe are far more important than regions...but that's a whole different story.
So there isn't really anything that would speak against a qualifier for Europe as a whole, but a lot that speaks against a weird split, because of the huge skill difference through the five regions.
EDIT: @ZigguratOfUr - exactly this!
|
Not sure how i feel about them splitting up Europe like that. Seems like it should just be the best players from all of Europe?
|
5 players from EU, 2 from KR... Lol?
|
Where can I complain about this system? Only one spot for Central Europe? But then, my country will never be able to participate in the Olympics as the Polish guys always beat us in SC2. What about some fair system? Only people of mixed origin will be accepted, half Polish, half Czech (e.g. Opisska)!
|
On November 30 2017 03:13 billynasty wrote: I'm wondering, who the player from Africa is gonna be. Anyone have any ideas?
stephano
|
On December 01 2017 18:15 Diabolique wrote: Where can I complain about this system? Only one spot for Central Europe? But then, my country will never be able to participate in the Olympics as the Polish guys always beat us in SC2. What about some fair system? Only people of mixed origin will be accepted, half Polish, half Czech (e.g. Opisska)!
I am, after all, top 4 in my country
|
On December 01 2017 15:06 Clazziquai10 wrote:5 players from EU, 2 from KR... Lol? 5 spots for 50 nations is indeed not fair.
Why does a single small nation like SK get 2???
I guess just because they are the host nation? Seems stupid to me... Lol.
|
On December 01 2017 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 07:04 Charoisaur wrote:On December 01 2017 04:18 OHGRinho wrote:My opinion on the European Qualifier: I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out. If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it. On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot. In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot. The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa). And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition. So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too. The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it. The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions. If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean. Ehhh... there's still a difference between aiming for diversity and rewarding local scenes, and blindly dividing up regions where scenes don't even exist. Even if you had a single qualifier with 5 spots for all of Europe you'd probably still end up with 4 different countries, and better players. I don't understand your point. Yes the regions with barely existing scenes get charity spots - but so does Europe as a whole. If they wanted better players it would be all korean but it's not the point of this tournament to get the best players. They want to give players from weaker regions a chance too.
Complaining about the fact that the weaker regions in Europe get charity spots at the expense of EU North and EU Central while finding it ok that EU North and EU Central get charity spots at the expense of Korea seems extremely hypocritical to me.
|
Better would have been 32 players with much more "charity spots" as you call them and ONLY 2 spots for korea. Then maybe something like 4 to 8 spots through an internationnal qualifier (which would be in the end taken by mostly koreans)
The point of this distribution of spots is the "olympics". If you want to interest people who don't know anything about SC2, you need to have someone from their country or at least region.
In any olympics, there is a maximum of participant per country. I think that's really good.
Edit : Oops, I'm destroying kr SC2 again. sorry
|
On December 01 2017 21:51 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 15:06 Clazziquai10 wrote:5 players from EU, 2 from KR... Lol? 5 spots for 50 nations is indeed not fair. Why does a single small nation like SK get 2??? I guess just because they are the host nation? Seems stupid to me... Lol.
Leave alone players’ qualities, SK should get more becoz they have the largest player base. EU has like 30 nations but how many of them actually have progamers? and how many % of population care about SC2 ? Answer these.
|
On December 01 2017 22:35 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 01 2017 07:04 Charoisaur wrote:On December 01 2017 04:18 OHGRinho wrote:My opinion on the European Qualifier: I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out. If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it. On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot. In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot. The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa). And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition. So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too. The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it. The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions. If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean. Ehhh... there's still a difference between aiming for diversity and rewarding local scenes, and blindly dividing up regions where scenes don't even exist. Even if you had a single qualifier with 5 spots for all of Europe you'd probably still end up with 4 different countries, and better players. I don't understand your point. Yes the regions with barely existing scenes get charity spots - but so does Europe as a whole. If they wanted better players it would be all korean but it's not the point of this tournament to get the best players. They want to give players from weaker regions a chance too. Complaining about the fact that the weaker regions in Europe get charity spots at the expense of EU North and EU Central while finding it ok that EU North and EU Central get charity spots at the expense of Korea seems extremely hypocritical to me.
You're being deliberately obtuse. Let's assume that IEM wants to promote regional diversity and sportive universality, goals very much in line with Olympic values (yes we know you fundamentally disagree with these goals). Dividing tournament spots among regions where there are active scenes, among Korea, Europe, China, the Americas achieves this moreso than a purely meritocratic qualifier system, and to its credit does help foster local scenes. Splitting spots among the different regions of Europe doesn't do any additional fostering, since the wider European scene is quite integrated, and there isn't any noticeable for example Southern European Starcraft scene distinct from the European scene.
On December 02 2017 14:01 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 21:51 Musicus wrote:On December 01 2017 15:06 Clazziquai10 wrote:5 players from EU, 2 from KR... Lol? 5 spots for 50 nations is indeed not fair. Why does a single small nation like SK get 2??? I guess just because they are the host nation? Seems stupid to me... Lol. Leave alone players’ qualities, SK should get more becoz they have the largest player base. EU has like 30 nations but how many of them actually have progamers? and how many % of population care about SC2 ? Answer these.
Korea does not have the largest player base. EU ladder has roughly three times more people than Korean ladder.
|
On December 02 2017 15:40 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 22:35 Charoisaur wrote:On December 01 2017 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 01 2017 07:04 Charoisaur wrote:On December 01 2017 04:18 OHGRinho wrote:My opinion on the European Qualifier: I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out. If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it. On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot. In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot. The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa). And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition. So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too. The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it. The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions. If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean. Ehhh... there's still a difference between aiming for diversity and rewarding local scenes, and blindly dividing up regions where scenes don't even exist. Even if you had a single qualifier with 5 spots for all of Europe you'd probably still end up with 4 different countries, and better players. I don't understand your point. Yes the regions with barely existing scenes get charity spots - but so does Europe as a whole. If they wanted better players it would be all korean but it's not the point of this tournament to get the best players. They want to give players from weaker regions a chance too. Complaining about the fact that the weaker regions in Europe get charity spots at the expense of EU North and EU Central while finding it ok that EU North and EU Central get charity spots at the expense of Korea seems extremely hypocritical to me. You're being deliberately obtuse. Let's assume that IEM wants to promote regional diversity and sportive universality, goals very much in line with Olympic values (yes we know you fundamentally disagree with these goals). Dividing tournament spots among regions where there are active scenes, among Korea, Europe, China, the Americas achieves this moreso than a purely meritocratic qualifier system, and to its credit does help foster local scenes. Splitting spots among the different regions of Europe doesn't do any additional fostering, since the wider European scene is quite integrated, and there isn't any noticeable for example Southern European Starcraft scene distinct from the European scene. Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 14:01 ParksonVN wrote:On December 01 2017 21:51 Musicus wrote:On December 01 2017 15:06 Clazziquai10 wrote:5 players from EU, 2 from KR... Lol? 5 spots for 50 nations is indeed not fair. Why does a single small nation like SK get 2??? I guess just because they are the host nation? Seems stupid to me... Lol. Leave alone players’ qualities, SK should get more becoz they have the largest player base. EU has like 30 nations but how many of them actually have progamers? and how many % of population care about SC2 ? Answer these. Korea does not have the largest player base. EU ladder has roughly three times more people than Korean ladder. Of course it does additional fostering. Ryu from the southern region as well as Bly/Pilipili from EU East get a chance to qualify for a big event they otherwise wouldn't have. This is good for the local scenes.
Same as giving players like Uthermal or Nerchio a chance to qualify for WESG (which they wouldn't have if it was one global qualifier) by giving guaranteed spots for Europe. It's exactly the same - Giving players from weaker regions spots to foster local scenes. EU central/north is weaker than KR and EU East/south are weaker than EU Central/North. Why should EU Central/North be given charity spots but not EU South/East?
|
On December 02 2017 17:42 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 15:40 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 01 2017 22:35 Charoisaur wrote:On December 01 2017 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 01 2017 07:04 Charoisaur wrote:On December 01 2017 04:18 OHGRinho wrote:My opinion on the European Qualifier: I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out. If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it. On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot. In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot. The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa). And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition. So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too. The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it. The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions. If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean. Ehhh... there's still a difference between aiming for diversity and rewarding local scenes, and blindly dividing up regions where scenes don't even exist. Even if you had a single qualifier with 5 spots for all of Europe you'd probably still end up with 4 different countries, and better players. I don't understand your point. Yes the regions with barely existing scenes get charity spots - but so does Europe as a whole. If they wanted better players it would be all korean but it's not the point of this tournament to get the best players. They want to give players from weaker regions a chance too. Complaining about the fact that the weaker regions in Europe get charity spots at the expense of EU North and EU Central while finding it ok that EU North and EU Central get charity spots at the expense of Korea seems extremely hypocritical to me. You're being deliberately obtuse. Let's assume that IEM wants to promote regional diversity and sportive universality, goals very much in line with Olympic values (yes we know you fundamentally disagree with these goals). Dividing tournament spots among regions where there are active scenes, among Korea, Europe, China, the Americas achieves this moreso than a purely meritocratic qualifier system, and to its credit does help foster local scenes. Splitting spots among the different regions of Europe doesn't do any additional fostering, since the wider European scene is quite integrated, and there isn't any noticeable for example Southern European Starcraft scene distinct from the European scene. On December 02 2017 14:01 ParksonVN wrote:On December 01 2017 21:51 Musicus wrote:On December 01 2017 15:06 Clazziquai10 wrote:5 players from EU, 2 from KR... Lol? 5 spots for 50 nations is indeed not fair. Why does a single small nation like SK get 2??? I guess just because they are the host nation? Seems stupid to me... Lol. Leave alone players’ qualities, SK should get more becoz they have the largest player base. EU has like 30 nations but how many of them actually have progamers? and how many % of population care about SC2 ? Answer these. Korea does not have the largest player base. EU ladder has roughly three times more people than Korean ladder. Of course it does additional fostering. Ryu from the southern region as well as Bly/Pilipili from EU East get a chance to qualify for a big event they otherwise wouldn't have. This is good for the local scenes. Same as giving players like Uthermal or Nerchio a chance to qualify for WESG (which they wouldn't have if it was one global qualifier) by giving guaranteed spots for Europe. It's exactly the same - Giving players from weaker regions spots to foster local scenes. EU central/north is weaker than KR and EU East/south are weaker than EU Central/North. Why should EU Central/North be given charity spots but not EU South/East?
Considering EU east/south a different scene than the rest of EU and an analogous situation to the split between Europe and Korea takes healthy doses of self-delusion. Face it you're just upset because your precious Koreans go shafted by this qualifier system (the fact that Koreans got screwed over by this qualifier split doesn't make your arguments any less spurious).
|
On December 02 2017 18:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2017 17:42 Charoisaur wrote:On December 02 2017 15:40 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 01 2017 22:35 Charoisaur wrote:On December 01 2017 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 01 2017 07:04 Charoisaur wrote:On December 01 2017 04:18 OHGRinho wrote:My opinion on the European Qualifier: I think the split is because of Olympia to ensure to have as many nations in there as possible. But the region split within Europe is bollocks. The european pro scene is already quite diverse in nationalities. The problem is, the southern region (as it is determined by ESL) is pretty much non-existent and the east is also underwhelming. And therfor very good players have to be left out. If you take a look at the standings of the 2017 WCS circuit, you have to scroll down to rank 56 to find Ryu from Italy as the only representative of the southern region. There is no other player in there. The next guy could probably be Reynor, if he is allowed to play, but that's it. On the other hand, we will have players like Showtime(Nat. GER/ WCS Rank 11), Nerchio(PL/5), Elazer(PL/2), uThermal(NL/14), Harstem(NL/22)...compete for the single central european slot. In the North Serral (FIN/3), Snute (NOR/4), Namshar (SWE/18) and Zanster (SWE/29) will compete for one spot. The West are our french guys DnS (35) and PtitDrogo (16) (Stephano is already registered for Africa). And in the East I could only find Bly (UKR/27) and PiliPili (KAZ/38), but no other competition. So...the hard qualifiers in Europe will only be the North and the Central region. The rest is going to be rather boring until the semi finals. For some guys even a cupcake, while others have to fight hard for their spot. And that's why I think this is bollocks. For europe it would have been enough with one or two open qualifiers for a maximum of 4 spots overall. Give the Koreans the 5th spot and IEM PyeongChang would have much more quality of play - which is important too. The one positive thing I can see in this format is, that it probably encourages a couple of players to try their luck. Who knows, we maybe find a gem or two. But I wouldn't expect it. The point isn't to have the best players there, they want players from lots of different regions. If they wanted just the best players it would be all korean. Ehhh... there's still a difference between aiming for diversity and rewarding local scenes, and blindly dividing up regions where scenes don't even exist. Even if you had a single qualifier with 5 spots for all of Europe you'd probably still end up with 4 different countries, and better players. I don't understand your point. Yes the regions with barely existing scenes get charity spots - but so does Europe as a whole. If they wanted better players it would be all korean but it's not the point of this tournament to get the best players. They want to give players from weaker regions a chance too. Complaining about the fact that the weaker regions in Europe get charity spots at the expense of EU North and EU Central while finding it ok that EU North and EU Central get charity spots at the expense of Korea seems extremely hypocritical to me. You're being deliberately obtuse. Let's assume that IEM wants to promote regional diversity and sportive universality, goals very much in line with Olympic values (yes we know you fundamentally disagree with these goals). Dividing tournament spots among regions where there are active scenes, among Korea, Europe, China, the Americas achieves this moreso than a purely meritocratic qualifier system, and to its credit does help foster local scenes. Splitting spots among the different regions of Europe doesn't do any additional fostering, since the wider European scene is quite integrated, and there isn't any noticeable for example Southern European Starcraft scene distinct from the European scene. On December 02 2017 14:01 ParksonVN wrote:On December 01 2017 21:51 Musicus wrote:On December 01 2017 15:06 Clazziquai10 wrote:5 players from EU, 2 from KR... Lol? 5 spots for 50 nations is indeed not fair. Why does a single small nation like SK get 2??? I guess just because they are the host nation? Seems stupid to me... Lol. Leave alone players’ qualities, SK should get more becoz they have the largest player base. EU has like 30 nations but how many of them actually have progamers? and how many % of population care about SC2 ? Answer these. Korea does not have the largest player base. EU ladder has roughly three times more people than Korean ladder. Of course it does additional fostering. Ryu from the southern region as well as Bly/Pilipili from EU East get a chance to qualify for a big event they otherwise wouldn't have. This is good for the local scenes. Same as giving players like Uthermal or Nerchio a chance to qualify for WESG (which they wouldn't have if it was one global qualifier) by giving guaranteed spots for Europe. It's exactly the same - Giving players from weaker regions spots to foster local scenes. EU central/north is weaker than KR and EU East/south are weaker than EU Central/North. Why should EU Central/North be given charity spots but not EU South/East? Considering EU east/south a different scene than the rest of EU and an analogous situation to the split between Europe and Korea takes healthy doses of self-delusion. Face it you're just upset because your precious Koreans go shafted by this qualifier system (the fact that Koreans got screwed over by this qualifier split doesn't make your arguments any less spurious). I'm just glad players like Ryu get a chance to compete on a big stage. What does that have to do with me being upset that koreans got screwed?
and why do you think it isn't an analogous situation?
|
|
|
|