Since LOTV got introduced, Adepts and Disruptors have gone through quite a few revisions. But in my opinion, there has always been a constant throughout all these changes: These unit's abilities are somewhat clunky to use. This is a bad thing, considering both of the abilities cause the unit to split in two instances of itself you can control separately. The interface should make it as easy as possible to manage these.
My main objective with this mod was addressing this clunkyness. It should not seen as a balance change, these are interface changes than in my opinion, should have happened long ago.
I have also added a couple of secondary experimental changes to the mod for fun that modify Swarm Hosts and Ghosts, but I don't want it to be the main focus.
DISRUPTOR RANGE INDICATOR FIX
In my opinion, this is the big one.
Unlike some units like Swarm Hosts - which always show their maximum range - Disruptors don't unless you have a single one selected and you are actively targeting the Nova. Otherwise you get no range indicator.
This is pretty bad considering how complicated the unit already is, the lack of smart casting and the nature of the projectile.
Players in lower leagues will often miscalculate the range and launch Novas from way too far for them to do anything. This doesn't matter as much as high or pro level, but it is a huge deal when you a learning to use the unit.
The fix is simple, make the range visible at all times. You can see it in action here:
ADEPT SHADE FIX
When I first used Adepts in LOTV I was kind of confused at why I was losing Adepts when shading away from Zergs. I soon realized that casting the Shade canceled whatever command I had issued previously, so if I was walking North and casted Shade South, I would have my Adept come to a dead stop instead of continuing to walk North.
Soon you realize you have to reissue the command for the Adept, but this is not great, since honestly you probably want to be managing your Shades at this point, and most of the time you would want your Adept doing the same thing it was previously doing instead of just halting.
Anyway, I fixed this too. The only thing that is gone is the Shade Cast animation, but players would always cancel that animation anyway. Here it is:
SWARM HOSTS AS CASTERS
This is a more experimental change (and not a priority like the above). What if Swarm Hosts were casters?
Energy management means you have a little more flexibility, and in this particular instance I allowed them to bank up to two waves. Waves still regenerate at the same pace, but this lets you skip a cycle and then launch two waves in relatively quick succession.
SH have a total of 100 energy, and each wave costs 40 energy. They are highly susceptible to Ghost EMP.
This would create a more flexible Swarm Host, but also one with more powerful counter-play. It might be too good as it stands in the mod, but you could nerf other aspects
+5 DAMAGE TO GHOST SNIPE
Queens have 175 HP, Ghost Snipe does 170 damage.
This irks me for some reason. I think it would be cool if Ghosts were good at killing Queens too (right now leaving one at 5 HP just means it will instantly get transfused).
This isn't serious or important, but I think Ghost are a fun unit and creating chances for them to shine will make them see the light a bit more.
THE MOD
The mod is named:
Perezas MINDBLOWING Adept Shade fix and new Disruptor Range
It is open for custom games and editing in case you want to check it out.
And it is currently available in Europe and America (will upload to Asia soon).
Cheers. If you have any small usability ideas (keyword:small, the smaller the higher the chance Blizzard might add them) or fun experimental changes, tell me and I might incorporate them
I think the disruptor change makes sense, but Adept harass is already harder to defend than to execute, so any extra click the protoss has to make is welcome imo.
Ghosts sniping queens with 1 shot has the potential to break TvZ I think.
On January 11 2018 19:52 Musicus wrote: Nice post and cool suggestions.
I think the disruptor change makes sense, but Adept harass is already harder to defend than to execute, so any extra click the protoss has to make is welcome imo.
Ghosts sniping queens with 1 shot has the potential to break TvZ I think.
Surely this must be a joke! Most terran players don't play ghost anyway vs zerg. Indeed, many terrans have started to mech against zerg. I cannot see how this would break TVZ at all.
On January 11 2018 22:50 hiroshOne wrote: It's not hard to imagine some cheese with ghost indicated in early game that is autowin for T with that buff.
Could certainly create chances for cheese, but so much as an autowin?
Ghost are still a large investment for the early game that suck against Zerglings, and Snipe can still be canceled with damage. Ghost Academy is a total giveaway too, even if you hide it the Zerg will likely notice something is up.
And still, you are making a 150/125 unit to deal with a 150 unit
On January 11 2018 19:52 Musicus wrote:Ghosts sniping queens with 1 shot has the potential to break TvZ I think.
It would? Terrans don't invest into ghosts except in the super lategame anyway
I mean I don't know and we won't know until it's tested, but it's just something I think could happen.
Ghosts are just super sick in the late game and can kill everything, and needing one snipe or two snipes for a unit makes a big difference I think.
Not sure if strategies with early ghosts to snipe creep queens or inject queens would actually happen. But the thought of a broken ghost late game (again) scares me. I could see some Terran buffs to marauders and ravens and stuff, but I definitely think snipe is good enough.
But OP didn't want the focus to be on the Ghost change anyway .
On January 11 2018 19:52 Musicus wrote:Ghosts sniping queens with 1 shot has the potential to break TvZ I think.
It would? Terrans don't invest into ghosts except in the super lategame anyway
I mean I don't know and we won't know until it's tested, but it's just something I think could happen.
Ghosts are just super sick in the late game and can kill everything, and needing one snipe or two snipes for a unit makes a big difference I think.
Not sure if strategies with early ghosts to snipe creep queens or inject queens would actually happen. But the thought of a broken ghost late game (again) scares me. I could see some Terran buffs to marauders and ravens and stuff, but I definitely think snipe is good enough.
I think it wouldn't be as impactful in the lategame, mostly because there are juicier targets like Broods or Ultras you would rather spend that energy on.
This could create some uses in the mid-game. And I mean, you still can use Ghosts that way in the current build in the game, against lone Queens 5 HP only needs a single followup shot for a kill
[B] But OP didn't want the focus to be on the Ghost change anyway .
I am already regretting bringing it up in the first place hahaha
On January 11 2018 22:50 hiroshOne wrote: It's not hard to imagine some cheese with ghost indicated in early game that is autowin for T with that buff.
Could certainly create chances for cheese, but so much as an autowin?
Ghost are still a large investment for the early game that suck against Zerglings, and Snipe can still be canceled with damage. Ghost Academy is a total giveaway too, even if you hide it the Zerg will likely notice something is up.
And still, you are making a 150/125 unit to deal with a 150 unit
It's not just a 150 unit though, it's production and creep. It's a barracks and your map presence getting one shotted.
I am already regretting bringing it up in the first place hahaha
It's not just a 150 unit though, it's production and creep. It's a barracks and your map presence getting one shotted.
True.
Either way lets focus on the QoL stuff, which actually might have a chance of getting through to Blizzard (I dont have much hope for the Ghost change, whether good or bad)
Yeah sorry I will let it rest.
No, its definitely my fault.
I knew I wouldn't be able to resist discussing it and yet I posted it in the original post
Quality post. Title is misleading, I thought it would be balance whine. That said, I don't think its a problem if Adepts require a bit more micro. IMO its no problem, just git gud.
I like both disruptor and adept change - will make managing these units a bit less frustrating Ghost change I don't feel like would make noticeable difference. energy-based SH will get feedback too easily I think - it would be quite a nerf, however I never was a fan of SH so I'm ok with nerfing them All in all quality post gj
While we talk about fixes, Tanks aufocusing Planetary Forteresses, even when attacking enemy units are way closer than the PF (like marines ), always seemed to me like a bug or stupid design. (btw it did the same thing vs photonpylons, lol ).
On January 11 2018 23:50 Aunvilgodess wrote: Quality post. Title is misleading, I thought it would be balance whine. That said, I don't think its a problem if Adepts require a bit more micro. IMO its no problem, just git gud.
Why should we add further actions when we already have enough to perfectly communicate some gameplay from the brain of the player to the game?
I can't think of a good reason that wouldn't also lead to further game design changes, more than just singling out the adept.
A idea for Disruptor Two different types of Novas. The first is as it is right now. The second one shoots instant(no charging up), but detonates much faster (max 6 or 7 range from the disruptor) does just 30 splash damage when hits and the cooldown is just 5 seconds. When using one type of nova, both are in cooldown.
I would love to see this in action. Must have potential to bring Disruptor to a solid level of unit.
On January 11 2018 19:52 Musicus wrote: Ghosts sniping queens with 1 shot has the potential to break TvZ I think.
it could break TvZ but i think its at least worthy of exploration.
On January 11 2018 19:52 Musicus wrote: I think the disruptor change makes sense, but Adept harass is already harder to defend than to execute, so any extra click the protoss has to make is welcome imo.
i have no problem removing the "clunky" nature of Adept control... but if that means Adept micro gets way better then they'll also need to nerf the adept.
The swarm host change is amazing! I've suggested making them energy based before. This would allow counters without making them stupid ie make them slow as mud and make them have ridiculously long cooldowns. Costs and High templar could counter them
Definitely like the Disruptor and Adept changes, even though Disruptor will never be used as long as it has this shitty charge up time.
As for Snipe I have been doing exactly that rush that you suggest to make stronger and can tell you it's insanely powerful. Got M2 by doing only Ghost Rush every game as my off race on Terran. I make Hellions and they can easily get 1 shot off on the Queen and also provide vision for the Snipe to easily go off. The Ghost is one of the strongest units in the game right now.
Swarm Hosts I think need a bigger redesign and it could and could not involve using Energy for it's spells. I think in general it makes sense for Spell Casters with only 1 ability to use cooldown instead of Energy.
On January 11 2018 22:50 hiroshOne wrote: It's not hard to imagine some cheese with ghost indicated in early game that is autowin for T with that buff.
Just because something is easy to imagine doesn't mean it's true. Zerg players defend early aggression with lings, and besides it's not clear that a snipe+ an auto attack is so much weaker than just one snipe.
How about making SH as an anti air unit? Zerg players don't need SHs to slow down terran in order to reach hive tech and zerg players don't need infestors for anti air even with new infested terrans.As you can see in recent pro games so far....
The disruptor suggestion should already be a part of the game, imo. There are quite a few other units with those range circles and it's only natural for disruptors to have them too. The adept suggestion is something that design wise fits in the game. Adepts feel like a broodwar unit the way they are now. It's like the manual ordering of workers to mine. I would like adepts to be as smooth as SC2 units usually are.
Very nice. I thought I was the only one who thought like that. Indeed the range indicator AND the adept shade thing have been on my nerves since forever. I main Terran, but like to play Protoss occasionally and both units skill design is really clunky as you pointed out.
Personally I would also like if the disruptor walked into range and casted then, like for example High Templars cast storm Vipers cast blinding clouds, etc. It would be more intuitive to me at least if that happened. The range thing I totally agree, that it should be indicated.
Great ideas! I've always though that Distruptors should shot in a single straight line, kinda like a skill shot, so you can aim them and fire instead of have to control where the bomb goes off. I think this is a little bit of a nerf for them as skilled players can now split and dodge them easily but also means a player who lands a good hit will have had to with some skill as well! Great to see the community constantly coming up with these changes, I really love your adept one! such a simple fix which would help out new players.
On January 12 2018 19:14 Synchronize` wrote: Great ideas! I've always though that Distruptors should shot in a single straight line, kinda like a skill shot, so you can aim them and fire instead of have to control where the bomb goes off.
Well, this is pretty much how scrubs like me use it :p
On January 12 2018 19:14 Synchronize` wrote: I think this is a little bit of a nerf for them as skilled players can now split and dodge them easily but also means a player who lands a good hit will have had to with some skill as well! Great to see the community constantly coming up with these changes, I really love your adept one! such a simple fix which would help out new players.
I think it could be interesting, though it would be a bit similar to Lurkers if you think about it
Gratz dude, here the bit ppl above me are talking about
Lastly, we saw a post on Team Liquid which proposed some adjustments to the Adept and Disruptor units to make them easier to manage and control. We think changes like this could be positive, so we want to try them out. Currently, Disruptors do not display range indicators unless you have a single one selected and are actively targeting with the Purification Nova ability. This can make it difficult to calculate the Purification Nova’s range. We want to try displaying the range indicator for all Disruptors while they’re selected to make it easier for players to calculate maximum distance for Purification Nova. As for Adepts, the fact that they stop moving after using the Psionic Transfer ability means their controls are a bit unclear. We want to try and change the Adept so that it will continue with its last issued command instead of simply stopping.
I have to say I am pretty amazed at the speed of the update from Blizzard!!!
If the changes go through I have to say it feels amazing to have done something that might affect some many games and players (and it didnt even take that much time!)
Thanks to everyone that gave their feedback (positive or critical, but especially positive :p) so it didn't get instantly buried!