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I was surprised to see WCS Valencia hit a peak of 54K viewers (there may have been a higher peak, but that's the peak that I noticed). Not counting Blizzcon, I don't recall SC2 hitting that type of viewership for years.
I also read this article about how Blizzard is bringing back SC2 (the article also discusses many mistakes Blizzard made since the inception of SC2): variety.com
I just want to say that things are going in a good direction. The redesign in LotV is good because it emphasizes more on micro. They also did a good job to get rid of the Swamhost design from HotS which was killing the game. Increasing the worker count at the start of the game was also a good idea because it lowers some of the down time at the beginning of each match.
It was ultimately a good idea to restrict WCS regions to players with a residency in those regions. The writer from the Variety article above is right in that too many Koreans in NA WCS and EU WCS was killing the foreign scene. Right now, the foreign scene is starting to thrive again.
Finally, F2P was the best idea. Wish Blizzard would have done this a long time ago. But with F2P, and the good direction that SC2 is going, I think SC2 can have a resurgence. I hope it does. I want to see a new generation of pro players in SC2 and I want to see more SC2 pros being able to earn enough to make a living off of playing SC2 as a pro full time.
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Without the Chinese, highest I saw was 65K viewers
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On July 15 2018 04:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Without the Chinese, highest I saw was 65K viewers
On the main www.twitch.tv/starcraft stream? Nice. I was probably too absorbed in Has's games to notice. I couldn't take my eye off his games
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On July 15 2018 04:10 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2018 04:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Without the Chinese, highest I saw was 65K viewers On the main www.twitch.tv/starcraft stream? Nice. I was probably too absorbed in Has's games to notice. I couldn't take my eye off his games That number includes every language stream from teamliquid.net side bar. (Except chinese)
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Somebody posted a spectator count chart on another thread here, it was clear sc2 had already started the current upward trend in 2017 second half. These things dont go linear like for any game so it's not a huge surprise to see this kind of phenom.
However starcraft (1 & 2) and counter-strike (1.6 and cs:go) have been the most popular competitive games in their genres for over nearly 20 years now it is really hard to push these games away, i dont think they are going anywhere in long time. CS had a slump later years of 1.6 when there were no tournaments running that much, similar thing with brood war but both resurrected to new highs with new versions. Current situation is that csgo and dota 2 are both losing active player base since 2017 quite rapidly (still very large player pools) but it might turn around or not.
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SC2 is in a healthy state. F2P really helps getting people to try out the game, the various game modes also are a nice thing toi have. It won't become THE e-sport anymore, that time is gone. But I think it'll stay around for many years to come, just like CS and Dota.
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Just shows that the game went Free-to-Play way too late. Had it happened at LotV launch we'd probably have 100k viewers for tournaments by now.
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I know for a fact that we would have atleast 1 more viewer if european terrans were getting anything done ....
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On July 15 2018 05:49 alpenrahm wrote: I know for a fact that we would have atleast 1 more viewer if european terrans were getting anything done .... Heromarine reached the semis before he lost to the god that is Serral. But I get your point, it's really a shame that there are so few exceptional european terrans. Gone are the days of Thorzain, Kas, Happy...
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SC2 is a great spectator sport and really excels in a tournament format. Combined with a solid history and collective knowledge on how to run a tournament, it really makes for a great event to watch.
However, I think playing the game is too stressing for most people. To some degree, I know what I should be doing when I play, but I simply cannot do it, which is frustrating. Putting in the time and effort to get good seems like such a waste for someone like me who will never become a tournament player (I'm old). So, I just don't play, but I've played enough in the past to appreciate what the players are doing.
As for regular streams, there are some very good streamers with mediocre or poor numbers. I look at guys like Vibe (former #1 US player) who runs a very nice, informative and entertaining non-toxic stream and would be lucky to break 300 viewers. Pig is another great streamer who does a little better on numbers, but I don't think he gets anywhere near 1000 viewers. So the actual number of people who want to watch and get better at the game still seems very small.
Maybe that's just the way SC2 will be, with a high number of viewers for events, but not a super thriving player or viewer-base for the day to day stuff. That does seem concerning though for the overall health of the scene. I'm a watcher of events and occasionally streams because I was once a player. If people never play the game, why would they watch? Can SC2 really compete with physical sports and draw in a fanbase of people who never played?
If not, I think the game is simply too overwhelming to draw in casual players like a shooter or a moba can, and the slow bleed will continue until death.
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The question is what is the percentage of those viewers that are bots.
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As long as the pro scene and player base are sustainable, I'm happy. Most eSport scenes don't last that long, but it seems like there's a lot grassroots interest
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Canada8768 Posts
On July 15 2018 04:46 It's britney bitch wrote: Somebody posted a spectator count chart on another thread here, it was clear sc2 had already started the current upward trend in 2017 second half. These things dont go linear like for any game so it's not a huge surprise to see this kind of phenom.
However starcraft (1 & 2) and counter-strike (1.6 and cs:go) have been the most popular competitive games in their genres for over nearly 20 years now it is really hard to push these games away, i dont think they are going anywhere in long time. CS had a slump later years of 1.6 when there were no tournaments running that much, similar thing with brood war but both resurrected to new highs with new versions. Current situation is that csgo and dota 2 are both losing active player base since 2017 quite rapidly (still very large player pools) but it might turn around or not.
It's also kind of interesting to see that there seems to be a lack of games carrying the toarch, SC2, CSGO and Dota seems to all be pass their prime, with other esport like Hearstone, Smite or Heroes all falling to establish a long time main large audience. But with the exception of Overwatch it seems like there isn't any real big esport game that came out since Dota in 2013. (Except maybe in the FGC) LOL is still king of the jungle of course. Or I am totally wrong and PUBG and Fortnite have huge tournament I'm not aware of.
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On July 15 2018 07:02 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2018 04:46 It's britney bitch wrote: Somebody posted a spectator count chart on another thread here, it was clear sc2 had already started the current upward trend in 2017 second half. These things dont go linear like for any game so it's not a huge surprise to see this kind of phenom.
However starcraft (1 & 2) and counter-strike (1.6 and cs:go) have been the most popular competitive games in their genres for over nearly 20 years now it is really hard to push these games away, i dont think they are going anywhere in long time. CS had a slump later years of 1.6 when there were no tournaments running that much, similar thing with brood war but both resurrected to new highs with new versions. Current situation is that csgo and dota 2 are both losing active player base since 2017 quite rapidly (still very large player pools) but it might turn around or not. It's also kind of interesting to see that there seems to be a lack of games carrying the toarch, SC2, CSGO and Dota seems to all be pass their prime, with other esport like Hearstone, Smite or Heroes all falling to establish a long time main large audience. But with the exception of Overwatch it seems like there isn't any real big esport game that came out since Dota in 2013. (Except maybe in the FGC) LOL is still king of the jungle of course. Or I am totally wrong and PUBG and Fortnite have huge tournament I'm not aware of. They have a few big money tournaments but none of the Battle Royale tournaments have been particularly successful afaik.
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On July 15 2018 06:03 RenSC2 wrote: SC2 is a great spectator sport and really excels in a tournament format. Combined with a solid history and collective knowledge on how to run a tournament, it really makes for a great event to watch.
I don't agree, I think that with time SC2 has clearly shown its shortcomings, and these deficiencies affect equally the viewers and those who play the game. I think that SC2 is as uninteresting to see it as a spectator as it is for a player, it has shortcomings that an RTS shouldn't have. Where is the advantage of the defender? and, who has an advantage over high ground? units like the reaper, blink stalker, mass medevacs, nydus, warp prism, etc., totally destroy the advantage of the defender and generate that there are so many games based on all ins and a constant harassment to the mineral lines, that by the way is another problem, in this game it is easy to make a massacre of workers, but it is almost impossible to make a comeback in a game in which you have been left behind in economy, that is due to the macromecanics, MBS and the automining, for that reason there are so few comebacks in that aspect and also when someone loses a battle, moving the units so fast, being easy to get the macro and having so little advantage for the defender, all that together causes many games end up sentenced for having lost a simple battle, and better not to mention the unfortunate late game of this game (even professional SC2 players admit that it is a garbage), it's deathball against deathball and see who uses bettter the spellcasters.
This game in my opinion is not fun to play, but much less as a spectator, in that aspect Brood War is immensely superior, offers games in which there comebacks, when the game is advanced, things happen in different points of the map, the battles last several seconds and you can see the intense micreo, I do not know what else I can say, the difference is immense between one game and another.
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On July 15 2018 04:46 It's britney bitch wrote: Somebody posted a spectator count chart on another thread here, it was clear sc2 had already started the current upward trend in 2017 second half. These things dont go linear like for any game so it's not a huge surprise to see this kind of phenom.
However starcraft (1 & 2) and counter-strike (1.6 and cs:go) have been the most popular competitive games in their genres for over nearly 20 years now it is really hard to push these games away, i dont think they are going anywhere in long time. CS had a slump later years of 1.6 when there were no tournaments running that much, similar thing with brood war but both resurrected to new highs with new versions. Current situation is that csgo and dota 2 are both losing active player base since 2017 quite rapidly (still very large player pools) but it might turn around or not. That's an interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing.
It is nice to see that SC2 is having a bit of an upwards trend, but I think you're right in the idea that because games like Counter Strike and StarCraft have been around for so long, that they're probably not going to go anywhere.
The future is uncertain though, so anything could happen. That said, I really don't expect StarCraft to ever get the viewership numbers of the other games that are wildly popular.
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I don't see sc2 ever coming back to the 2010-2012 golden era, but it seems to be regaining some life.
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Canada8768 Posts
On July 15 2018 07:04 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2018 07:02 Nakajin wrote:On July 15 2018 04:46 It's britney bitch wrote: Somebody posted a spectator count chart on another thread here, it was clear sc2 had already started the current upward trend in 2017 second half. These things dont go linear like for any game so it's not a huge surprise to see this kind of phenom.
However starcraft (1 & 2) and counter-strike (1.6 and cs:go) have been the most popular competitive games in their genres for over nearly 20 years now it is really hard to push these games away, i dont think they are going anywhere in long time. CS had a slump later years of 1.6 when there were no tournaments running that much, similar thing with brood war but both resurrected to new highs with new versions. Current situation is that csgo and dota 2 are both losing active player base since 2017 quite rapidly (still very large player pools) but it might turn around or not. It's also kind of interesting to see that there seems to be a lack of games carrying the toarch, SC2, CSGO and Dota seems to all be pass their prime, with other esport like Hearstone, Smite or Heroes all falling to establish a long time main large audience. But with the exception of Overwatch it seems like there isn't any real big esport game that came out since Dota in 2013. (Except maybe in the FGC) LOL is still king of the jungle of course. Or I am totally wrong and PUBG and Fortnite have huge tournament I'm not aware of. They have a few big money tournaments but none of the Battle Royale tournaments have been particularly successful afaik.
Ok, I wonder if we will see a consolidation of esport around the games already there in the next few years. There isn't any big competitive new games coming out outside of the more established Cod-BF-Sports games ect... who probably won't become super popular in the competitive scene all of the sudden. The industry seems to be turning away from competition games a bit, and the games who try to create an esport scene from the top almost all fail in spectacular fashion, Ican't see any game overturning Lol any time soon for example. (Although who the fuck saw lol coming anyway) It would make sense for the esport industry to push for a most stable esport landscape, even if the last few years were already pretty stable.
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On July 15 2018 07:55 IshinShishi wrote: I don't see sc2 ever coming back to the 2010-2012 golden era, but it seems to be regaining some life.
The game was great during WOL. HOTS literally killed the game. LOTV wasn't any better until they got rid of David Kim and axed the MSC and such.
The game is good again.
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