Welcome to another edition of the TeamLiquid.net Power Rank! The Power Rank comes in a week late again this month, as GSL vs the World was still going on and we wanted to wait for it to finish. Makes sense, right? As usual, here is our summary of the Power Rank criteria:
Results up to August 5th (GSL vs. The World) were taken into consideration.
The Power Rank is an aggregate, average ranking of separate lists submitted by individual members of the TeamLiquid.net writing staff.
Criteria considered include, but are not limited to: Tournament placements, overall record, quality of opponents faced, quality of play.
Recent results are weighted more heavily, but players may receive benefit of the doubt for consistent performances over time.
Impact: Congratulations to Impact for finally breaking his Code S curse and making it to the RO16! If he can continue to bring his online level of play to the GSL studio, he could easily break into the top ten in the future.
soO: soO's 2-3 loss to Maru was actually a credit to him, as his dismal ZvT was one of the main reasons he was falling in tournaments (and in the rankings). Unfortunately, there's just no excusing his losses to Keen and SpeCial that saw him drop out of the Code S RO32.
sOs: sOs' only result in the past month was reaching the Code S RO16 with victories over Ryung and Classic, which isn't quite enough for him to recover a top ten position. Perhaps things would have been different if he won the Korean Protoss vote and and competed instead of Zest at GSL vs. The World...
Zest: What a fall for Zest, dropping out of the power rank just two months after reaching the Code S finals. He could have squeezed into the top ten before GSL vs. The World, but his loss to ShoWTimE sees him drop into CBNC as other rise.
Much was made of the fact that INnoVation was excluded from last months power ranking, but there's no doubt that his inclusion was deserved this time around. INnoVation had his best month of 2018 in July. He looked unconvincing at times at HomeStory Cup, but he was the one left standing when the dust settled. That victory seemed to be the harbinger of another prosperous summer as INnoVation swept his GSL group en route to the Round of 16.
For a moment, INnoVation gave the community a reason to believe he had returned to his dominating form of old when he throttled Rogue in the first round of GSL vs. the World. He was then swept by Serral, who made it clear in no uncertain terms that INnoVation doesn’t belong among the truly elite.
Of course, there’s still time to turn things around. INnoVation performances in the summer months have been historic, and he looked strong in Code S. Group nomination are right around the corner, and the weeks that follow will tell us if INnoVation is ready to mount a campaign for a fourth GSL championship, or if he'll simply melt in the heat.
A lot has happened since our last power ranking. Serral won GSL vs. the World. soO was eliminated from GSL. INnoVation won HSC and Leenock turned the clock back half a decade. And yet, lost amid all the success and failures that have colored our scene over the past month, is the fact that Trap’s stranglehold over the number nine spot on the Teamliquid power rank is as solid as ever.
Trap neither benefited nor suffered from competing in GSL vs. The World, so our lasting impression of him from July is his authoritative take down of Bunny and TY in the Code S RO32. His daring proxy gate play against TY was particularly striking. Trap now finds himself in the Round of 16 of Code S for the sixth time in his last seven tries. The sobering reality is that’ it’s always been the end of the road—Trap has gone 1-2 in his Round of 16 group on each of his previous five trips.
Some might be surprised to learn that Trap currently sits in the eighth spot in the WCS Korea Standings. If he can maintain a similar death-grip on that spot as he has in the TL power rankings, then an unexpected trip to BlizzCon might be in store for our quietly consistent Protoss.
GuMiho has been his usual active self over the past month or so, playing a whopping 88 games across a variety of tournaments. His opening GSL group was undoubtedly the most important of the lot, and GuMiho passed the test with flying colors. While he didn't face the toughest of opponents, wins over herO and MMA saw him reach the Round of 16 where he’ll hope to earn a repeat RO8 appearance.
GuMiho’s results online have been less impressive. Wins over Rogue, TY and Trap are promising in a vacuum, but when counterbalanced by losses to Zest, Dark and Bunny, things start to sour a bit. One could chalk GuMiho’s spotted results up to his packed schedule and the relatively relaxed environment, but GuMiho recent inconsistency is a worry trend. It serves as a reminder that GuMiho remains in the second tier of Korean StarCraft II beneath elites like Dark and Maru. He’s competitive and has a puncher's chance, but is rarely a favorite against the real heavyweights.
Classic had a rough July, which began with Code S elimination at the hands of GSL rookie Reynor. Things didn't get much better after. He lost to Reynor (again) in OlimoLeague, and then had some mixed performances in Master's Coliseum that saw him beat soO and Leenock yet lose to ByuN and Impact. In GSL vs. The World, he narrowly defeated Scarlett 3-2, followed by an equally tight 2-3 defeat at the hands of Dark.
Not all of Classic's fall in the ranking is due to his poor results—he was also surpassed by a handful of players making dramatic rises. Still, dropping out of Code S in the RO32 is borderline inexcusable for a Power Rank player, and it's our respect for Classic's long run as an elite player that keeps him in the middle of the rankings. Classic's close series versus Dark showed us that he still has a lot of fight in him, and he may very well use his remaining opportunities to remind us why he's been 2018's best Protoss.
TY made his triumphant return to the Teamliquid power rankings last month, and he prolonged his stay in the top ten due to some uncharacteristically active tournament participation. Most of the time, TY’s paucity of matches makes ranking him a guessing game, but his literally unprecedented level of activity over the last month (actually the most tournament games in a month in his entire career) paints a clearer picture. TY went 16–5 in matches with wins over the likes of Rogue, Dark, and Classic, and secured his Code S RO16 spot.
The competition is a bit sparse, but TY has earned the right to be called the second best Terran in Korea behind Maru. It’s a shame he isn’t more popular, because GSL vs. The World could have been an intriguing test to see how he measures up against the top championship contenders. If he had been in INnoVaton's spot, could he have put up a better fight against Serral? Would he have even advanced beyond Rogue?
With a lot of players putting in strong performances and moving up in our ranking, someone had to drop down to accommodate them—that someone was Rogue.This comes despite this past month being quite good to him: he maintained reasonable online form with about as many good wins as bad losses, and advanced easily from his GSL RO32 group (in no small part due to the shocking upset of soO). But GSL vs The World is what ultimately made him lose ground.
Rogue essentially answers the question of 'How far can one bad Best of 5 make you fall down?' in this month's Power Rank. Turns out that, in a scene as cutthroat and ruthless as this one, it can make you fall three spots. It wasn't just that he lost to INnoVation while playing a generic and generally weak style without too much resistence, but it was how easily Serral dissected the supposedly-returning Terran right afterwards. That certainly leaves a bad taste in one's mouth about Rogue's level, but he remains reasonably consistent. His dropping down really is more to do with others outperforming him this month than him doing poorly.
Dark has had a rather strong month. His online form has been strong, and he converted it into dominating victories over Neeb in the GSL RO32 and GSL vs the World, as well as a victory against Classic and a good series against Serral (despite losing the latter to the eventual champion).
Dark is one of the most balanced and consistent Zergs out there, an elite player in all three matchups who is perhaps guilty of falling just below the very best at times. And despite again losing out in GSL vs The World, the level he's currently exhibiting shows vast improvement and an ability to compete for the big titles again. Watch out for Dark in GSL and the Super Tournament next month.
After a lengthy relegation to close-but-no-cigar purgatory, Stats once again graces us with his presence in this Power Rank. While his Code S group went largely as expected with him falling to INnoVation before sweeping Cure and Hurricane to advance in second place, it was his surprisingly solid performance in GSL vs. the World that has him rocketing back up. He followed up two quick 3-0 beatdowns against Cyan and Special with extremely resilient play to mark a monumental 3-1 victory over Maru, silencing the doubters that stated he’d lost his championship touch. A bitterly fought loss against Serral undoubtedly ruined the ending Stats wanted, but, for the most part, Stats has shown stable play while simultaneously reaffirming his ability to beat the best, something he’s been lacking ever since his quick exit from the GSL last season. Preparation was the name of the game for Stats in this tournament, and it showed in the diversity of strategies utilized in his wins against Maru and the first two games against Serral.
Stats has always been consistent, even if his online record belies his offline performances and pushes doubts towards his overall skill level. Thankfully for his fans, he seems to be peaking just in time for the last leg of the year which holds the final season of GSL and, more importantly, a return trip to Blizzcon. All in all, Stats has shown strong performances since his mid season drop and fully deserves this spot.
It happened. We saw Serral play Koreans, and the results were nothing short of astounding. He's not only the best foreigner in the world, but his championship at GSL vs The World even has a lot of people calling him the outright best player in the world—and they might be right.
The manner in which he won GSL vs The World is what truly makes his run so impressive. He 3-0'd INnoVation (who came off a victory against Rogue), ended Dark's winstreak against foreigners, then clutched the finals against Stats after falling behind in the series twice. The cherry on top, however small it may seem, is his victory over Maru in the team match.
You might have expected Serral to come in first in this ranking, and we assure you it was by no means an easy decision to put him in second place. The only thing holding him back minimally is that GSL vs The World is 'only' one tournament against the very best Koreans, and the player above him has put together a string of them, impressing in all. If Serral keeps playing at this level, though, you will see him top this ranking sooner rather than later.
As hinted above, Maru still holds the top spot on this list after a rather shaky showing in GSL vs. the World (by his standards—he still reached the semifinals). What saves his throne this month is less that he excelled this month, but more the consistency he showed in months prior leaving him with a bit of a 'buffer' that allows him to remain here despite not winning everything he enters.
Maru looked remarkably human in GSL versus the World, but his overall numbers have yet to dip. His GSL Ro32 was more challenging than you'd expect, but wins over Leenock and Forte sent him through to the Round of 16 in GSL. And, while he suffered losses to Stats and Serral during the main event and team portion of GSL vs. the World respectively, he never looked so out of depth that we could conclusively say he's gotten worse compared to months prior. At the end of the day, he retains a 23-3 series record, and while that may not be as awe-inspiring as his previous 22-1, we're choosing to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially given the level of competition he regularly faces.
So, albeit barely, Maru keeps his top spot in our Power Rank.
I like that Serral is not on top. While he did everything he could possibly do during GSL vs The World I think that being number 1 requires consistency across a few tournaments with word's best players, something he hasn't had a chance to show yet. Especially that next time Koreans will probably target him specifically.
I'll be honest, the notion that serral was really close to toping this list is worrisome to me, but he seems always a tad bit overhyped in these with the data available at that point. Definitely deserves to be in the top3 though, no doubt about that.
Looks like a reasonable list though, though scared for the next one (which i assume will come out after the wcs event serral surely will win )
I don't think they'll put him top 1 if he wins against "mere" foreigners in WCS.
It's more probable that he loses places if he underperforms in this event, but maybe if both Maru and Stats don't qualify for ro8 and he wins the event he can go #1.
On August 08 2018 00:16 DieuCure wrote: Stats not being 2 is debatable.
Debatable yes. But not a convincing argument. He lost the bo7 to Serral, and bombed out of GSL last season, and hasn't looked super convincing this season.
If he didn't beat Maru in GSL vs TW he wouldn't even be top 10.
If GSL vs TW was qualifiers instead of votes, I don't think INno (or Rogue) would have been in it. soO would have a really good chance though, he looked good in the event, unlike INno. The critical weakness of ZvT has faded to some degree, he looked worse than Maru but not clueless.
IMO, Trap is fool's gold. sOs and Zest are close to Trap in Blizzcon points and I would put money on sOs or Zest to make the finals of a Premier tournament before I would on Trap.
On August 08 2018 01:22 xelnaga_empire wrote: IMO, Trap is fool's gold. sOs and Zest are close to Trap in Blizzcon points and I would put money on sOs or Zest to make the finals of a Premier tournament before I would on Trap.
Zest and sOs have the potential to go much higher than Trap (although Trap has made some great runs throughout his career) but they also have much crazier downward swings. Trap always meets expectations (pretty much exactly), sOs & Zest either exceed expectations or fully disappoint.
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote: So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.
Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.
It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol
True, and still there are many people in here saying Stats should be #2. I dont get it why cant they accept Serral beat everyone this month? But oh no, hes not korean so he cant possibly be this high...
I'm down with this list. I think it'd be odd to put Stats at #2 after one good tournament that he didn't even win. Serral's been showing good form for a year, and he loudly answered the question that has haunted him (despite in-part answering it at Katowice and WESG): how does he fair against Koreans? At the end of the day, the fact of the matter is he hasn't lost to ANYONE in quite some time. He deserves his number 2 spot.
Surprised Classic is still in this list after dropping out of the ro32. When Stats dropped out of the ro16 he completely fell from the list despite having even stronger results previously than Classic now.
On August 08 2018 02:58 Charoisaur wrote: Surprised Classic is still in this list after dropping out of the ro32. When Stats dropped out of the ro16 he completely fell from the list despite having even stronger results previously than Classic now.
They do tend to struggle with consistency. My favorite example being TY getting into the PR despite no results because "he's TY" and then dropping out the next month despite winning all his games.
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote: So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.
Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.
It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol
Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance. Also he won literally every tournament? WESG and Katowice didn't happen?
Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.
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Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list. I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote: So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.
Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.
It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol
Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance. Also he won literally every tournament? WESG and Katowice didn't happen?
Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.
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Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list. I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before
To be fair Maru looks to be in a much shakier form than he was back then. Almost losing to soO's ZvT isn't really what we expect of him.
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote: So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.
Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.
It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol
Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance. Also he won literally every tournament? WESG and Katowice didn't happen?
Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.
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Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list. I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before
To be fair Maru looks to be in a much shakier form than he was back then. Almost losing to soO's ZvT isn't really what we expect of him.
The true test for maru will be gsl, if he bombs out before ro4 serral will overtake him for sure. Probably even if he doesn't make finals at this point :D Though i think maru's style he showed the last two gsls might be somewhat figured out now, this midgame centered gameplay. If soO wouldn't be totally clueless in lategame he would have won rather easily, leenock did it one game and serral as well. Now that stats also showed how to deal with maru in pvt it will be interesting to see how this develops.
Reasonable enough. I'll humbly admit I was wrong about Serral (though I think he exceeded expectations for even the biggest fanboys as well) and he has clearly earned his #2 spot given that this appears to only cover July - August 5th.
Classic over Gumi is totally stupid though. Gumi has a stronger sampling of games over the past month and a superior win percentage. He also wins in the most important category of actually making it out of his GSL group (in 1st over herO!). Classic's only advantage is GSL vs The World where he only did alright.
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote: So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.
Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.
It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol
Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance. Also he won literally every tournament? WESG and Katowice didn't happen?
Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.
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Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list. I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before
To be fair Maru looks to be in a much shakier form than he was back then. Almost losing to soO's ZvT isn't really what we expect of him.
Serral ftw. Gotta say I was surprised by his dismantling of both Inno and Dark. Less surprised he beat Stats, but still super impressive. He's easily top 3 in the world, and as likely to be #1 as anyone. If he wins the next premier involving Koreans I'd say he's the first "Best SC2 player in the world not a Korean". I don't think anyone else ever reached that plateau.
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote: So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.
Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.
It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol
Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance. Also he won literally every tournament? WESG and Katowice didn't happen?
Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.
-
Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list. I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before
To be fair Maru looks to be in a much shakier form than he was back then. Almost losing to soO's ZvT isn't really what we expect of him.
Maru was also in shakey form during supertournament 1, both then and in GSL vs TW he said he was taking time off to recharge so it makes sense.
If he flops in GSL S3 however, then you can make the case his form has dipped.
Has Maru not won two straight GSL’s as well as other strong performances ? That so rarely happens, so I don’t think it’s close between Serral and Maru just yet, he deserves to comfortably hold that title . I think Serral slotting in right behind him is perfectly fine though, certainly should be above stats.
Serral proved that he is on the same level as the top koreans. Despite this incredible run, i cant say he is surely the best or even top 3. I think Maru, Rogue, Dark could beat him just as well they could lose to him. Theese guys are very close right now. Maybe Maru is the one who is clearly above everyone hence his continous succes amoung the BEST players.
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote: So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.
Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.
It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol
Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance. Also he won literally every tournament? WESG and Katowice didn't happen?
Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.
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Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list. I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before
To be fair Maru looks to be in a much shakier form than he was back then. Almost losing to soO's ZvT isn't really what we expect of him.
Great point, but two things we must consider:
(1) It was blatantly obvious that Maru was freestyling. His only builds were his 2-1-1 tank push or proxy 2 rax. I am surprised with him doing the 2-1-1 tank opener despite it being so out there for all zergs to adapt to ever since he took out rogue with it. He basically puts himself behind doing this. Would be better off doing a fast 3 CC opening but then again hes Maru.
(2) Considering what his ZvT looked like earlier, sOO looked way sharper. I feel he vastly improved his ZvT before this tourney and considering Rogue who didnt play anywhere close to his own level, its tough to say who was better/worse. But I feel sOO wouldve given Inno a very tough fight had they met up.
As far as this tourney goes, obviously serral was way better than an zerg that entered.
Surprised that Rogue is at the 5th spot, he's had a horrendous month and his ZvT looks absolutely woeful.
Also kinda surprised that Innovation eeks out the 10th place spot in this list, for me he's close but no cigar, I'd probably have given that 10th place spot to soO who, outside of the finals (a close 4-3 for Inno), went 23-4 in maps at HSC XVII compared to Innovation's comparatively poor 26-12 map score.
Otherwise, soO had a relatively mediocre month, and there's no really convincing contender for that 10th place, however I'm not sure that Innovation has proven that he deserves it outside of a very shaky tournament win at HSC XVII.
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote: So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.
Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.
It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol
Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance. Also he won literally every tournament? WESG and Katowice didn't happen?
Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.
-
Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list. I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before
You realize Serral beat Maru? Even if it was only bo1 how can you say hes not close to be over Maru if he literally just beat him?
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote: So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.
Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.
It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol
Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance. Also he won literally every tournament? WESG and Katowice didn't happen?
Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.
-
Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list. I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before
You realize Serral beat Maru? Even if it was only bo1 how can you say hes not close to be over Maru if he literally just beat him?
Is Leenock also close to Maru? Patience? Was TerrOr Prime close to Byul when he beat him? That's not how it works buddy; a bo1 tells basically nothing.
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote: So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.
Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.
It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol
Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance. Also he won literally every tournament? WESG and Katowice didn't happen?
Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.
-
Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list. I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before
You realize Serral beat Maru? Even if it was only bo1 how can you say hes not close to be over Maru if he literally just beat him?
Is Leenock also close to Maru? Patience? Was TerrOr Prime close to Byul when he beat him? That's not how it works buddy; a bo1 tells basically nothing.
Leenock is clearly top 4 in the world. TerrOr would have been as good as Serral if he wasn't stuck on a team of match fixers.
On August 08 2018 08:42 Bagration wrote: Ironically, I bet if Maru had beaten Stats but lost to Serral in a Bo7 in the GSL vs. World finals, Serral would be #1, and not Maru.
By bowing out one round earlier, Maru probably held on to his top position (barely)
On August 08 2018 08:42 Bagration wrote: Ironically, I bet if Maru had beaten Stats but lost to Serral in a Bo7 in the GSL vs. World finals, Serral would be #1, and not Maru.
By bowing out one round earlier, Maru probably held on to his top position (barely)
This is probably true. If Maru had played in the final I think Serral would have 4-1 or 4-2. Unless Maru suddenly returned to GSL playoff form.
Then again if his form was good enough to get over Stats, it was probably good enough to get over Serral. But I don't think he was beating either that day.
On August 08 2018 10:37 BisuDagger wrote: Had Reynor not met Serral until the finals he would be CBNC contender. I can't wait to see where he gets placed if he advances in ro16.
Had SpeCial been on the other side of the bracket, he probably makes the final and loses to Serral in it as well.
Maybe even Scarlett actually. The Valencia bracket was so top heavy.
On August 08 2018 10:37 BisuDagger wrote: Had Reynor not met Serral until the finals he would be CBNC contender. I can't wait to see where he gets placed if he advances in ro16.
Had SpeCial been on the other side of the bracket, he probably makes the final and loses to Serral in it as well.
Maybe even Scarlett actually. The Valencia bracket was so top heavy.
Come on, if any of those guys would've been on the other side of the bracket Has would've destroyed them.
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote: So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.
Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.
It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol
Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance. Also he won literally every tournament? WESG and Katowice didn't happen?
Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.
-
Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list. I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before
To be fair Maru looks to be in a much shakier form than he was back then. Almost losing to soO's ZvT isn't really what we expect of him.
Well even gods need to rest
He slumbers like a classic Lovecraftian elder god.
On August 08 2018 18:07 SnowAngel wrote: I agree with the list, except I would put Dark over Stats. Stats might be a tad hotter now, but lacks consistency over time.
Like when Dark went 0-4 in the ro16? Stats is more consistent than Dark is
On August 08 2018 15:47 jinroairwings wrote: I would agree with this list, except I don't think Serral deserves to be in the top 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, etc.
Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.
He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote: Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.
He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.
What place would you give him? Anything below 3 is very hard to justify in my opinion.
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote: Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.
He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.
He's performed well against koreans in two prior tournaments, won 3 WCS events back to back in utterly dominant fashion and his wins against Dark and Inno were pretty convincing. It's hardly "sudden".
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote: Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.
He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.
I've lost count of how many things we're fanboys of that all contradict each other.
You guys remember that Serral did beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap at IEM Katowice to reach the semis earlier this year? It's not like this was the first time Serral played vs Koreans and did well.
#2 is perfectly fine after this performance. This is the August 2018 ranking, not the GOAT of LotV ranking.
On August 08 2018 23:35 Musicus wrote: You guys remember that Serral did beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap and IEM Katowice to reach the semis earlier this year? It's not like this was the first time Serral played vs Koreans and did well.
#2 is perfectly fine after this performance. This is the August 2018 ranking, not the GOAT of LotV ranking.
Him being 2nd is fine for sure, the notion that he was extremely close to take 1st is kinda laughable though imo.
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote: Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.
He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.
I've lost count of how many things we're fanboys of that all contradict each other.
Don't worry about that, the community has the spreadsheet and images rdy. Now that Taeja's military service is over i expect him on the PR sooner than later
On August 08 2018 23:35 Musicus wrote: You guys remember that Serral did beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap and IEM Katowice to reach the semis earlier this year? It's not like this was the first time Serral played vs Koreans and did well.
#2 is perfectly fine after this performance. This is the August 2018 ranking, not the GOAT of LotV ranking.
Him being 2nd is fine for sure, the notion that he was extremely close to take 1st is kinda laughable though imo.
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote: Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.
He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.
I've lost count of how many things we're fanboys of that all contradict each other.
Don't worry about that, the community has the spreadsheet and images rdy. Now that Taeja's military service is over i expect him on the PR sooner than later
For what it's worth, no writer put him #1, and there wasn't much of a debate about him being #1.
However, if Maru loses out of the Ro16/continues to show the form he did in GSL vs the World.. the story can change very quickly. That's where the 'close' comes from.
On August 08 2018 23:35 Musicus wrote: You guys remember that Serral did beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap and IEM Katowice to reach the semis earlier this year? It's not like this was the first time Serral played vs Koreans and did well.
#2 is perfectly fine after this performance. This is the August 2018 ranking, not the GOAT of LotV ranking.
Him being 2nd is fine for sure, the notion that he was extremely close to take 1st is kinda laughable though imo.
On August 08 2018 23:31 Olli wrote:
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote: Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.
He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.
I've lost count of how many things we're fanboys of that all contradict each other.
Don't worry about that, the community has the spreadsheet and images rdy. Now that Taeja's military service is over i expect him on the PR sooner than later
For what it's worth, no writer put him #1, and there wasn't much of a debate about him being #1.
However, if Maru loses out of the Ro16/continues to show the form he did in GSL vs the World.. the story can change very quickly. That's where the 'close' comes from.
I mean losing in the ro16 or even ro8 would be enough in my book to give serral the number 1 spot assuming he wins wcs. Losing in the ro4 or even gsl finals? For me personally that would not be enough, i guess for TL it would be though (though we can argue about it when/if it happens)
What do you mean with "form" exactly? Maru losing to stats and the bo1 vs serral or do you also look at the close match vs soO and evaluate that negatively for maru ?
On August 08 2018 23:35 Musicus wrote: You guys remember that Serral did beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap and IEM Katowice to reach the semis earlier this year? It's not like this was the first time Serral played vs Koreans and did well.
#2 is perfectly fine after this performance. This is the August 2018 ranking, not the GOAT of LotV ranking.
Him being 2nd is fine for sure, the notion that he was extremely close to take 1st is kinda laughable though imo.
On August 08 2018 23:31 Olli wrote:
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote: Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.
He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.
I've lost count of how many things we're fanboys of that all contradict each other.
Don't worry about that, the community has the spreadsheet and images rdy. Now that Taeja's military service is over i expect him on the PR sooner than later
For what it's worth, no writer put him #1, and there wasn't much of a debate about him being #1.
However, if Maru loses out of the Ro16/continues to show the form he did in GSL vs the World.. the story can change very quickly. That's where the 'close' comes from.
At this point if Maru drops out of GSL in the Ro16 with his group you need to consider whether he's top 10 at all.
On August 09 2018 02:20 MockHamill wrote: I agree with this ranking if you look at achievements. If you look are pure skill though Serral has surpassed every Korean, including Maru.
How does this "pure skill" manifest itself in reality ?
Honestly, I kind of feel Classic is only going to slide lower and lower from here. There was a legitimate argument for him being called the best protoss at the start of the year but I personally feel that Stats has the better claim now. Plus now he's not even in the GSL ro16 he only has GSTL and Blizzcon to impress.
On August 09 2018 02:20 MockHamill wrote: I agree with this ranking if you look at achievements. If you look are pure skill though Serral has surpassed every Korean, including Maru.
How does this "pure skill" manifest itself in reality ?
Micro, macro, multitasking and decision making. It is hard to quantify but if you look at the gameplay Serral is playing closer to perfect than any other SC2 player.
On August 09 2018 02:20 MockHamill wrote: I agree with this ranking if you look at achievements. If you look are pure skill though Serral has surpassed every Korean, including Maru.
How does this "pure skill" manifest itself in reality ?
Micro, macro, multitasking and decision making. It is hard to quantify but if you look at the gameplay Serral is playing closer to perfect than any other SC2 player.
Yeah he is great at all of those things, but "hard to quanitify" is the problem here i think These absolute skill statements are imaginery if you do not quantify it. I would just stick with the actual results, he does great there :D
On August 09 2018 02:20 MockHamill wrote: I agree with this ranking if you look at achievements. If you look are pure skill though Serral has surpassed every Korean, including Maru.
How does this "pure skill" manifest itself in reality ?
Micro, macro, multitasking and decision making. It is hard to quantify but if you look at the gameplay Serral is playing closer to perfect than any other SC2 player.
Not sure about this. Anyone looks perfect when they're outclassing their opponents, getting nothing but 3-0's etc. But when Serral is faced with actual challenges you see areas to improve. His matches against Scarlett, Maru, Classic, Has, and Stats certainly showed this.
Another example of this is Maru's WeSG runs. You couldn't find any flaws in his play when he's grinding 3-0 through every foreigner. But the finals against TY and Dark certainly showed some. Even though he was probably putting much more effort into them than the earlier matches.
Specifically in the late game Serral doesn't look nearly as flawless, that's why I think Maru made a huge mistake by not playing at a slower pace in the bo1.
Maru already interviewed before GSL vs the world that he didn't practice much for the tournaments.
If he practiced as he always does in GSL, I don't think he would be eliminated by Stats in ro4. Especially his tvp style highly depends on amounts of practice.
I kinda agree with this power rank. And about Serral, even tho Koreans didn't study or prepare for Serral much, he still simply outplayed many Koreans in this tournament with basic skills, which is still amazing part. And even it was just one tournament, I think it was enough for Serral to prove that he is already same level with top Koreans. I hear a lot of Koreans saying if Serral improves more and overcome his several weaknesses, he would be the undoubtful best zerg in future. Koreans gonna be prepared in blizzcon and that will likely show Serral's real skills.
The amount of bullshit and mind-numbing bias in this comment section is reaching new heights, never before known to men. Good thing Serral wasnt put on 1st, cuz a wave of brain-aneurysm would have wiped out half of TL s stable readership.
Stats lost these past 5 weeks to: Serral - in the finals Soo (twice) Showtime Rogue Keen Nice Alive Innovation- twice, once in the GSL Trap
Serral lost: literally nobody, not a single series dropped, online or offline, perfect record for like 3 months straight
But i concede, Stats should be 2nd, since he is korean and won a GSL a few seasons ago.
Hey folks, I gotta say I'm not a super Serral fanboy, and I seriously recognise and respect GSL as the top tier.
But Serral legit earned #1 right now. He has been equally dominant as Maru and then won the head to head, admittedly bo1 but if you can't split them and it comes to that surely you pick the winner.
Also Trap seems to be being kept at 9 for someone's random gimmick I don't think he is top 10 worthy atm. Soo and Inno both ahead of him easily.
On August 11 2018 06:06 Dave4 wrote: Hey folks, I gotta say I'm not a super Serral fanboy, and I seriously recognise and respect GSL as the top tier.
But Serral legit earned #1 right now. He has been equally dominant as Maru and then won the head to head, admittedly bo1 but if you can't split them and it comes to that surely you pick the winner.
Also Trap seems to be being kept at 9 for someone's random gimmick I don't think he is top 10 worthy atm. Soo and Inno both ahead of him easily.
Maru: Wins 2 gsl's
Serral: Wins gsl vs the world and a single game against Maru
Serral hasn't shown nearly as much dominance in tournaments worthy of someone of his skill level, he looked incredible at GSL vs the World and is very clearly in the top few players but Maru is so far showing one of the most dominant years in Starcraft 2 history.
On August 11 2018 06:06 Dave4 wrote: But Serral legit earned #1 right now. He has been equally dominant as Maru and then won the head to head, admittedly bo1 but if you can't split them and it comes to that surely you pick the winner.
Equally dominant in a vastly inferior region?
It's shocking how much people downplay winning 2 GSLs since Serral won GSL vs TW. No one did that when Stats and herO won supertournaments, or when Rogue won IEM Shangai.
Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.
I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.
Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.
I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.
Also furthermore Maru has done this as the only pro gaming house left in Korea, with people monitoring his training and conditioning etc. While Serral has done it on his own.
So U can say it's one of the most dominant runs in SC2 from Maru but he is doing it in basically the most favourable era with a heavy advantage over everyone else so that probably waters it down a fair bit.
On August 11 2018 18:10 Dave4 wrote: Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.
I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.
Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.
I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.
Maru did something that hasn't been done since Nestea in his back to back GSLs. While, yes back to back to back is impressive for Serral it wasn't against the same calibre of opponent, just look at the runs to the finals from the ro16 onwards.
Maru: GSL season 1: Dear, Gumiho, sOs, Dark, Stats GSL season 2: Patience, Solar, Rogue, Classic, Zest
Serral: Leipzig: Masa, Nerchio, Special, Showtime Austin: Kelazhur, HeroMarine, Lambo, Mana Valencia: Scarlett, Reynor, HeroMarine, Has
Just looking at the calibre of opponents, Maru's run was far more impressive. Even the weaker players in his runs were on par with a lot of the players that Serral played in his runs.
On August 11 2018 18:10 Dave4 wrote: Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.
I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.
Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.
I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.
You're overrating WCS wins. Every top 10 player would win every WCS in Serral's place.
On August 11 2018 18:10 Dave4 wrote: Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.
I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.
Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.
I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.
You're overrating WCS wins. Every top 10 player would win every WCS in Serral's place.
On August 09 2018 17:13 dummy1 wrote: @Geo.Rion Dude, what's your problem? You've just lost everything? Chill.
your comment makes no sense
edit: Oh, right, u re one of the people saying Stats over Serral in august. Good username.
Bro, IT doesn't matter who's first. Make your own PR. Make you own list. IT doesn't matter now. It can't help to recover the scene and make it better. It's just important to keep in mind that who is who and what have they done to you and to the world.
On August 11 2018 18:10 Dave4 wrote: Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.
I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.
Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.
I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.
Maru did something that hasn't been done since Nestea in his back to back GSLs. While, yes back to back to back is impressive for Serral it wasn't against the same calibre of opponent, just look at the runs to the finals from the ro16 onwards.
Maru: GSL season 1: Dear, Gumiho, sOs, Dark, Stats GSL season 2: Patience, Solar, Rogue, Classic, Zest
Serral: Leipzig: Masa, Nerchio, Special, Showtime Austin: Kelazhur, HeroMarine, Lambo, Mana Valencia: Scarlett, Reynor, HeroMarine, Has
Just looking at the calibre of opponents, Maru's run was far more impressive. Even the weaker players in his runs were on par with a lot of the players that Serral played in his runs.
Yeah you are also deliberately excluding his GSL win there I see to further your case... Basically they each have 1 GSL, then it's 1 GSL compared to three WCS. And that's ignoring the other titles he has won.
Anywho, I get it, GSL is the top and I know Korea has been where it's at for a long time and a new world order is going to rustle a few feathers along the way.
Point is until they play each other we will never know who is better.
On August 11 2018 18:10 Dave4 wrote: Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.
I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.
Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.
I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.
Maru did something that hasn't been done since Nestea in his back to back GSLs. While, yes back to back to back is impressive for Serral it wasn't against the same calibre of opponent, just look at the runs to the finals from the ro16 onwards.
Maru: GSL season 1: Dear, Gumiho, sOs, Dark, Stats GSL season 2: Patience, Solar, Rogue, Classic, Zest
Serral: Leipzig: Masa, Nerchio, Special, Showtime Austin: Kelazhur, HeroMarine, Lambo, Mana Valencia: Scarlett, Reynor, HeroMarine, Has
Just looking at the calibre of opponents, Maru's run was far more impressive. Even the weaker players in his runs were on par with a lot of the players that Serral played in his runs.
Yeah you are also deliberately excluding his GSL win there I see to further your case... Basically they each have 1 GSL, then it's 1 GSL compared to three WCS. And that's ignoring the other titles he has won.
Anywho, I get it, GSL is the top and I know Korea has been where it's at for a long time and a new world order is going to rustle a few feathers along the way.
Point is until they play each other we will never know who is better.
Oh wait
I like how you say that they both have one gsl so it is just one gsl compared to the three wcs events. Yeah no because maru won gsl code s and not just a weekender gsl vs the world. You cannot just 1:1 compare these two, with that being said i would definitely rank this "gsl win" higher than his wcs wins. Maru also won WESG which is basically a harder WCS event (not by a lot, but still).
Personally i think it is almost laughable if you wanna add these things up and come to the conclusion that serral is ahead (or even really close), i think maru's achievements are easily more valuable this year so far. Serral's Gsl vs the world win is definitely making sure he catches up though and one also shouldn't forget that the tournament placings at the start of the year only can mean so much anymore for a PR now, so that could give serral additional fire here. For the next PR it will really come down to this code s and how maru does there, serral will surely win the next wcs event because noone is close to his skill and he is actually favored to win a wcs event not only compared to anybody in the field but the whole field combined.
On August 11 2018 18:10 Dave4 wrote: Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.
I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.
Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.
I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.
Maru did something that hasn't been done since Nestea in his back to back GSLs. While, yes back to back to back is impressive for Serral it wasn't against the same calibre of opponent, just look at the runs to the finals from the ro16 onwards.
Maru: GSL season 1: Dear, Gumiho, sOs, Dark, Stats GSL season 2: Patience, Solar, Rogue, Classic, Zest
Serral: Leipzig: Masa, Nerchio, Special, Showtime Austin: Kelazhur, HeroMarine, Lambo, Mana Valencia: Scarlett, Reynor, HeroMarine, Has
Just looking at the calibre of opponents, Maru's run was far more impressive. Even the weaker players in his runs were on par with a lot of the players that Serral played in his runs.
Yeah you are also deliberately excluding his GSL win there I see to further your case... Basically they each have 1 GSL, then it's 1 GSL compared to three WCS. And that's ignoring the other titles he has won.
Anywho, I get it, GSL is the top and I know Korea has been where it's at for a long time and a new world order is going to rustle a few feathers along the way.
Point is until they play each other we will never know who is better.
Oh wait
Yes they have played each other. twice. As it stands Maru is 3-1 on map score.
You also can't really compare a GSL vs the World to a full blown GSL so no it's not 1 GSL to 3 WCS. GSL vs The World is more comparable to the Super Tournament but slightly weaker. As such when you factor in all that is said and done they are on comparable levels in terms of achievements in premier tournaments (2 GSLs, WESG for Maru and 3 WCS, GSL vs the World for Serral).
To be clear, their achievements this year are definitely comparable and I would certainly like to see Serral impress at Blizzcon, however, as it stands Maru does edge past him.
If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote: If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.
Maybe there should be 2 trophies given for tournaments: one for the player that wins all the series, and one for the Korean who only lost because he underestimated the opponent and didn't bother to prepare but is still the better player and the real champion.
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote: If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.
Maybe there should be 2 trophies given for tournaments: one for the player that wins all the series, and one for the Korean who only lost because he underestimated the opponent and didn't bother to prepare but is still the better player and the real champion.
Yes, maybe! Or maybe, just maybe, we can acknowledge someone played well a tournament but hold off on calling them the best player in the world until they show consistent success at the highest level. When Neeb won the Kespa cup, he 4-0'd a group with Rogue, Byun, and Zest and proceeded to crush both Stats and Trap. Lightning did not strike twice for Neeb, and I think history would suggest it won't for Serral either.
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote: If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.
How many foreign zergs have won a tournament on the scale of GSL vs the World?
Hint : The only answer is Stephano at NASL3, where he only played one matchup (ZvP). And even then, if you're trying to make the argument that he 'came crashing back to earth' afterwards (especially if you just look at that matchup), well, you're in an uphill battle.
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote: If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.
How many foreign zergs have won a tournament on the scale of GSL vs the World?
Hint : The only answer is Stephano at NASL3, where he only played one matchup (ZvP). And even then, if you're trying to make the argument that he 'came crashing back to earth' afterwards (especially if you just look at that matchup), well, you're in an uphill battle.
I just mentioned the example of Neeb, who took out multiple top-tier Koreans in the Kespa Cup including a 7-1 run against Stats and Trap. Yes, what Serral did hasn't happened often, but foreign zergs have a history of doing well vs. koreans in the short-term and eventually being figured out.
I'm not saying Serral can't have future success vs. the Koreans. I'm just saying that we should temper our expectations since we have a sample size of one tournament. For a site like Teamliquid that likes to play the hyper-rational geek squad, I'm surprised I have to say this.
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote: If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.
How many foreign zergs have won a tournament on the scale of GSL vs the World?
Hint : The only answer is Stephano at NASL3, where he only played one matchup (ZvP). And even then, if you're trying to make the argument that he 'came crashing back to earth' afterwards (especially if you just look at that matchup), well, you're in an uphill battle.
I just mentioned the example of Neeb, who took out multiple top-tier Koreans in the Kespa Cup including a 7-1 run against Stats and Trap. Yes, what Serral did hasn't happened often, but foreign zergs have a history of doing well vs. koreans in the short-term and eventually being figured out.
I'm not saying Serral can't have future success vs. the Koreans. I'm just saying that we should temper our expectations since we have a sample size of one tournament. For a site like Teamliquid that likes to play the hyper-rational geek squad, I'm surprised I have to say this.
Neeb's not a foreign zerg, and we don't have a sample size of one tournament; we know Serral from his IEM run (where he beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap), from his WESG run (where he beat Classic and dominated foreigners) and from putting up historic numbers vs foreigners.
He's a damn good player and it's incredibly hard to argue anyone else over him for #2 considering nobody else has as unimpeachable of a resume.
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote: If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.
How many foreign zergs have won a tournament on the scale of GSL vs the World?
Hint : The only answer is Stephano at NASL3, where he only played one matchup (ZvP). And even then, if you're trying to make the argument that he 'came crashing back to earth' afterwards (especially if you just look at that matchup), well, you're in an uphill battle.
I just mentioned the example of Neeb, who took out multiple top-tier Koreans in the Kespa Cup including a 7-1 run against Stats and Trap. Yes, what Serral did hasn't happened often, but foreign zergs have a history of doing well vs. koreans in the short-term and eventually being figured out.
I'm not saying Serral can't have future success vs. the Koreans. I'm just saying that we should temper our expectations since we have a sample size of one tournament. For a site like Teamliquid that likes to play the hyper-rational geek squad, I'm surprised I have to say this.
Neeb's not a foreign zerg, and we don't have a sample size of one tournament; we know Serral from his IEM run (where he beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap), from his WESG run (where he beat Classic and dominated foreigners) and from putting up historic numbers vs foreigners.
He's a damn good player and it's incredibly hard to argue anyone else over him for #2 considering nobody else has as unimpeachable of a resume.
You could make the argument for Stats. He won supertournament and made the finals of both GSL S1 and GSL vs TW. If you compare the number of top players they've both beat Stats is probably in the lead. Maybe Dark as well.
Serral beating Classic and Trap earlier in the year is impressive but it's not like Stats didn't do that and much more. Serral has an insane winrate but he hasn't actually played as many series against top tier opponents.
I'm not saying Stats or Dark deserve the #2 spot necessarily, but the arguments are there.
On August 13 2018 00:25 VengefulTree wrote: How can anyone even consider putting Stats over Serral for any reason other than anti-foreigner bias
Easy. Serral has had one tournament that he performed well in that had Koreans in it.
Stats has had many of recent memory. He made a GSL finals this year after all and won a supertournament. Serral won a weekend for fun vacation tournament. Congrats to him - but it is nothing compared to GSL. Serral is rank 10-14 in my book still.
On August 13 2018 00:25 VengefulTree wrote: How can anyone even consider putting Stats over Serral for any reason other than anti-foreigner bias
Easy. Serral has had one tournament that he performed well in that had Koreans in it.
Stats has had many of recent memory. He made a GSL finals this year after all and won a supertournament. Serral won a weekend for fun vacation tournament. Congrats to him - but it is nothing compared to GSL. Serral is rank 10-14 in my book still.
Well the Korran bias is clearly strong. Serral 10-14 lol. Youd be putting multiple players who haven't even been to a semifinal this whole year ahead of him in order to make that assertion. Let alone that this ranking is supposed to be weighted based on the month of July and maybe a few months shortly before that.
On August 13 2018 10:43 tilhorizon wrote: No "Close but No Cigar" for Showtime ? He recently did beat Stats 3:0 Innovation 3:0 and Zest 3:1
They need a "close but no 'close but no cigar'" category. The fact that they haven't done that shows clear bias in whatever direction makes people angriest at the moment.
On August 13 2018 10:43 tilhorizon wrote: No "Close but No Cigar" for Showtime ? He recently did beat Stats 3:0 Innovation 3:0 and Zest 3:1
They need a "close but no 'close but no cigar'" category. The fact that they haven't done that shows clear bias in whatever direction makes people angriest at the moment.
Added to the list of things we're biased for/against!
On August 13 2018 00:25 VengefulTree wrote: How can anyone even consider putting Stats over Serral for any reason other than anti-foreigner bias
Easy. Serral has had one tournament that he performed well in that had Koreans in it.
Stats has had many of recent memory. He made a GSL finals this year after all and won a supertournament. Serral won a weekend for fun vacation tournament. Congrats to him - but it is nothing compared to GSL. Serral is rank 10-14 in my book still.
Yeah sure, 27k $ for the first place is a fun vacation tournament when there are as few tournaments in Korea as there are now.
Don't remember if I said it already in this thread but the power rank seems very accurate, I agree with a lot of it.
On August 13 2018 00:25 VengefulTree wrote: How can anyone even consider putting Stats over Serral for any reason other than anti-foreigner bias
Easy. Serral has had one tournament that he performed well in that had Koreans in it.
Stats has had many of recent memory. He made a GSL finals this year after all and won a supertournament. Serral won a weekend for fun vacation tournament. Congrats to him - but it is nothing compared to GSL. Serral is rank 10-14 in my book still.
Ok so Stats winning a 3 days tournament 4 months ago with 11K on the line after beating Byun (2 Ro32 Ro8 of GSL), Solar (2 Ro32, 1 Ro16), herO (1Ro16, 1 no qualify, 1 Ro16+) and Dark (1Ro16, 1 Ro4 and 1 Ro16+) is impressive
But Serral winning a 3 days tournament with 27K on the line after beating Inno (2 Ro16, 1 Ro16+), Dark and Stats is a fun tournament
What about IEM world ? you know when Serral lost to souL in the qualifier while Stats qualify and beat : TRUE, Rogue, Impact, Zest, Neeb, Nerchio Trap. Oh wait that was the other way around
On August 13 2018 10:43 tilhorizon wrote: No "Close but No Cigar" for Showtime ? He recently did beat Stats 3:0 Innovation 3:0 and Zest 3:1
They need a "close but no 'close but no cigar'" category. The fact that they haven't done that shows clear bias in whatever direction makes people angriest at the moment.
Added to the list of things we're biased for/against!
On August 13 2018 10:43 tilhorizon wrote: No "Close but No Cigar" for Showtime ? He recently did beat Stats 3:0 Innovation 3:0 and Zest 3:1
They need a "close but no 'close but no cigar'" category. The fact that they haven't done that shows clear bias in whatever direction makes people angriest at the moment.
Added to the list of things we're biased for/against!
You should power rank the TL bias accusations.
That would be boring, Liquid bias is guaranteed #1