On September 15 2018 05:15 Waxangel wrote: This talk reminds me a bit of Flash at four titles, where ppl got caught up about him needing five, even though his sheer dominance was unprecedented.
Which is funny considering that Flash had to beat Jaedong to get there while maru has no real rival (which might hurt him tbh)
totally inconsistent tho
if you think Flash should be rewarded for beating Jaedong, then Jaedong should be rewarded for having to play Flash (and beating him once!)
But according to idiotic bonjwa-theory, Savior (4 titles) is a bonjwa and Jaedong is not because Jaedong (5 titles) wasn't 'dominant' enough. This is the generally accepted 'fan-logic' back when bonjwa-theory was at its peak of popularity in 2008~2009.
Anyway this whole line of thought is generally idiotic. Korean fans harping on about bonjwa-theory after 2010-ish—partly due to Flash and partly I hope because they realized bonjwa shit is fucking stupid. It's an awful relic that's stuck around in the foreign scene for some god-forsaken reason.
I am just saying it's funny people didn't believe in flash being a bonjwa or whatever term one wants to use for a really dominant player when he had to beat JD consistently who was such a beast himself. Maru on the other hand plays a different player every final and none of them are really comparable to JD here.
Personally i don't care too much how we describe this era of dominance, it certainly exists and it's awesome to watch (especially as a maru fan ofc), i think people just wanna use the term bonjwa because it's already a starcraft term and it also sounds good phonetically ^^
Completely agreed both as a Maru fan and a fan of Starcraft
If you read the book The Starcraft Bible theres a whole beautiful chapter dedicated to the concept of a rivalry, how it influences and changes the meta, the rest of the competition and so on. The whole chapter is based on Flash vs Jaedong and their destinies colliding.
On September 15 2018 09:16 Morbidius wrote: Fun fact: Innovation never made 2 consecutive round of 8's in the GSL, the very tournament Maru is about to sweep for the third time.
He did in 2012-2013, but he didn't win any of them.
In the years he's actually won and dominated (2014,2015,2017), he's never made ro8 twice in a row.
Maru however has made ro8/4 a disgusting number of times, often not only consecutively but as the only terran in them.
It's pretty hard finding 20 S-Class players in GSL Season 3, that are, without a doubt, above serrals level. But serral should not be the point here. I think it's kind of stupid to compare the weekend-format of a WCS with the format of a GSL, where you can practice for days up to a certain point for ONE matchup with at least 4 maps, while you play at least 17 maps in 72 hours for winning a WCS.
I am not saying that one format has a higher skill ceiling than the other, altough i think that koreans could struggle with a regular weekend-format, i'm just saying that this is far from being comparable.
If you ask me about current Serral level, I wouldn't dare to point 20 GSL players. But compared to rest of top foreigners? Absolutely yes.
And you can simply compare WCS and GSL with a unique term called 'region lock'.
And you are true about one format setting like WCS Circuit is more hard to predict and rely on real basic skills.
But there were already 2 Big Premier tournament with huge prices happened this year with IEM World championship and WESG. And did Koreans struggle? They just dominated it.
My eye was drawn to Maru back in his Prime days. My good buddy who plays and watches SC2 with me would always say things like, "Why do you like Maru so much? What is it about him that makes him good, because he's not really winning much?" My buddy never played the Terran race, so maybe he just didn't "get it" when he watched Maru, I'm not sure...
Now after all these years of me never shutting up about Maru, this friend of mine is beginning to understand what it was I saw in Maru all those years ago - and I'm very very content seeing his true potential finally realized.
Because I've always believed in Maru's sheer skill and ability, I would love for him to take the GSL 3-peat and then Blizzcon, just to cement himself as not only the guy with the most overwhelmingly consistent period of dominance this game has ever seen, but to become the one true GOAT (yes, I know there are those of you who insist on this going to MVP or INno, but let's be real now folks, with the level of play this game is at after all these years, only the best remain in Korea - and look how badly Maru is humiliating them at this point).
As others have pointed out, having a few more trophies under your belt over the long-term kind of means squat compared to what it is Maru is very well about to accomplish in this year alone... and that's without mentioning his previous Starleague wins and proleague record etc etc.
Of course I know we all won't agree, but I find it extremely difficult to believe that if Maru takes this GSL + Blizzcon we will EVER see this kind of run ever again.
Serral is the only foreigner same level as top Koreans. And all foreigners except Serral did not even get a chance to make ro4.
And GSL vs World was much less important tournament in prize wise, only was about $94000 prize pool while both IEM world championship and WESG were about $400000 each. And that's why I said 'Big' premier tournaments
On September 15 2018 09:16 Morbidius wrote: Fun fact: Innovation never made 2 consecutive round of 8's in the GSL, the very tournament Maru is about to sweep for the third time.
He did in 2012-2013, but he didn't win any of them.
In the years he's actually won and dominated (2014,2015,2017), he's never made ro8 twice in a row.
Maru however has made ro8/4 a disgusting number of times, often not only consecutively but as the only terran in them.
He made consecutive ro8 from GSL 2014 Season 3 to 2015 Season 1...
The Inno hate is really getting out of hand..........
I would feel sad to not see Maru win all 3 GSL this year and then go against Serral in the Blizzcon final (who also sweep the circuit). This storyline development is just so hyped.
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
Agreed but for some reason lots of people don't want to accept Inno as the Goat. I don't know if they find him too boring or his playstyle isn't flashy enough or what but for some reason those people try everything to disregard his achievements and put other less accomplished players above him. It's no surprise that they use this opportunity of Maru having a hot streak to advertise him as the new Goat and hope the recency bias is strong enough that people fall for it.
Inno is not likable and fully embodies faceless korean, no personality at all. strictly mechanical play although i guess now he mixes in all ins. he is definitely in the disucssion for GOAT though, at least in HOTS
there were a few things though that stand out against him being GOAT. for sure at least the second GOAT (although I think soo has that title on lock down).
he was abusing hellbats being broken initially to win TvT in HOTS, which was correctly pointed out by ppl who got ban warned back then, only for those people to be completely vindicated when inno's TvT went into the shitter immediately after the hellbat nerf. since then he has consistently been sniped by TvT specialists like alive and gumiho and the like.
also his loss to soulkey in the GSL finals also exposed him. he was up 3-0 and got reverse swept and in the final game tilted and sent a shit ton of medivacs to do a drop when there were mutas flying all around. the mutas ate the medivacs for lunch
i think there is a strong case for life as GOAT in HOTS
See this is what I mean. People try everything to diminish his achievements because they don't like him. Can I remind you that Mvp had the majority of his success during GomTvT and Life had his initial string of success on the back of BL/Infestor? But that never gets brought up because people don't have a problem with them being the GOAT - only Inno gets treated differently.
well mvp dominated in gom tvt with mechanics, and then when his wrists were broken he continued to win through sheer genius. heck he even took some games off inno iirc.
life won via gglord winfestor, but after the nerf, unlike the other patch zergs who fell off (cough cough foreigner zergs who were able to "beat" korean terrans before). zergs who abused that disgusting comp like roro/sniper faded into irrelevance afterward. life kept dominating afterward.
but yeah i get what you're saying. inno just isn't a very likable personality. however i don't see him having that same kind of brilliance and resilience mvp had after his wrists got ruined. in fact, his tvt going to shit after hellbat nerf is like the anti mvp story. no resilience there. that's why mvp is beloved and inno is not. maru on the other hand, very adorable character and great story. started in first gsl as a kid and was awful, now is a god.
Life is the only Zerg I really like during SH era. He’s the only Zerg that refuse to abuse that build unless he was really behind in a game, which he will pull out SH to catch up. Kinda like Maru refusing to build vikings vs colossus or ghosts v HT. With healthy dose of cheese & aggressions mixed in, what is there not to like? If only life didn’t killed his own career...