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On September 15 2018 22:17 Odoakar wrote: Why didnt we get a news like this for serral wcs win?
Because GSL is actually an accomplishment. Like it or not, regionlocking has made the WCS far less competitive than it would be otherwise, championships are less prestigious as a result.
No one is denying how good Serral is, but until he wins either Blizzcon, or an actual GSL his victories have an enormous asterisk next to them.
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On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
I don't know why I'm bothering responding to you, but here we go
Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang and got ro8 in Code S season 1 2018, and Reynor very nearly 2-0'd Maru in their RO16 match. It's ridiculous to say that neither of them would get air time against Maru, especially when Reynor literally *did* get 45 minutes. In addition, it's hardly fair to judge by that tiny match score in BO3's that Serral is a much worse player than Maru. I will grant that Montreal isn't nearly as impressive as Code S, but dear god man, if you want to prove that point you can do it without straight up lying.
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On September 16 2018 04:48 Psychonian wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said. I don't know why I'm bothering responding to you, but here we go Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang and got ro8 in Code S season 1 2018, and Reynor very nearly 2-0'd Maru in their RO16 match. It's ridiculous to say that neither of them would get air time against Maru, especially when Reynor literally *did* get 45 minutes. In addition, it's hardly fair to judge by that tiny match score in BO3's that Serral is a much worse player than Maru. I will grant that Montreal isn't nearly as impressive as Code S, but dear god man, if you want to prove that point you can do it without straight up lying.
Also to Serral's credit, using his results in ZvZ to gauge his prowess vs a Terran like Maru is apples and oranges. For all we know, Reynor is some kind of TvZ savant, it's too bad we can't gauge that yet since he has so few matches vs quality Terran opponents for us to analyze.
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On September 16 2018 04:50 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2018 04:48 Psychonian wrote:On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said. I don't know why I'm bothering responding to you, but here we go Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang and got ro8 in Code S season 1 2018, and Reynor very nearly 2-0'd Maru in their RO16 match. It's ridiculous to say that neither of them would get air time against Maru, especially when Reynor literally *did* get 45 minutes. In addition, it's hardly fair to judge by that tiny match score in BO3's that Serral is a much worse player than Maru. I will grant that Montreal isn't nearly as impressive as Code S, but dear god man, if you want to prove that point you can do it without straight up lying. Also to Serral's credit, using his results in ZvZ to gauge his prowess vs a Terran like Maru is apples and oranges. For all we know, Reynor is some kind of TvZ savant, it's too bad we can't gauge that yet since he has so few matches vs quality Terran opponents for us to analyze. I'm very much looking forward to seeing him compete in GSL again at some point in the future. I think he'd get past the RO16 this time.
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i drove to Montreal to watch the Dreamhack thing. WCS-Montreal was a lot of fun...but, i'm not delusional...
GSL is a lot better than WCS. The level of play in this season's GSL was higher than WCS-Montreal. Maru > Serral. GSL>WCS.
seeing as people like talking about the 4-horseman i'll quote the founder of the 4 horseman ... Maru "is the greatest player on the face of god's green earth, Gene"
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Canada8755 Posts
On September 16 2018 04:47 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2018 22:17 Odoakar wrote: Why didnt we get a news like this for serral wcs win? Because GSL is actually an accomplishment. Like it or not, regionlocking has made the WCS far less competitive than it would be otherwise, championships are less prestigious as a result. No one is denying how good Serral is, but until he wins either Blizzcon, or an actual GSL his victories have an enormous asterisk next to them.
Yes, clearly TL staff look at this and decided that WCS wasn't worth an article, it couldn't possibly be that a group of mostly unpaid voluntary writters didn't yet have the time or the inspiration to finish writting this particular article.
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For all of the pro-Serral people in this thread, this argument is EXACTLY why Regionlocking is bad for the game. It pollutes the entire competitive atmosphere of the game's esports scene.
People as good as Serral shouldnt be beating up inferior opponents, it'd be like putting an NBA player on a college basketball court.
Serral has already proven that he is far superior to the level of competition of WCS. He shouldn't be competiting in it any more than the Koreans. Somehow though because he's white instead of Korean though it's OK. It's a stupid idea and it deprives us of seeing him vs the players he should be actually competing against.
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On September 16 2018 04:58 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2018 04:47 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 15 2018 22:17 Odoakar wrote: Why didnt we get a news like this for serral wcs win? Because GSL is actually an accomplishment. Like it or not, regionlocking has made the WCS far less competitive than it would be otherwise, championships are less prestigious as a result. No one is denying how good Serral is, but until he wins either Blizzcon, or an actual GSL his victories have an enormous asterisk next to them. Yes, clearly TL staff look at this and decided that WCS wasn't worth an article, it couldn't possibly be that a group of mostly unpaid voluntary writters didn't yet have the time or the inspiration to finish writting this particular article.
And yet the same staff found a way to make an article for the GSL, could it possibly be because more people pay attention to GSL news?
Could it possibly be because 3 straight GSL titles is a much bigger deal?
Nah, it's definitely just a coincidence.
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Czech Republic12115 Posts
On September 16 2018 04:48 Psychonian wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said. I don't know why I'm bothering responding to you, but here we go Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang and got ro8 in Code S season 1 2018, and Reynor very nearly 2-0'd Maru in their RO16 match. It's ridiculous to say that neither of them would get air time against Maru, especially when Reynor literally *did* get 45 minutes. In addition, it's hardly fair to judge by that tiny match score in BO3's that Serral is a much worse player than Maru. I will grant that Montreal isn't nearly as impressive as Code S, but dear god man, if you want to prove that point you can do it without straight up lying. almost doing something doesn't count. You either do it, or don't. Reynor lost. Get over it.
Edit> I almost send money to a charity. What a noble spirit am I!
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How is one's first reaction after watching an EPIC TvT GSL finals (honestly I'm still pumped after this morning) coming to TL forum to argue about Maru/Serral and Koreans vs rest of the world?
Like, can't you just enjoy SC2 rather than arguing like children about who's right and who's not? (moreover, this is not really debating, it's just low-key insulting others trying to be right..)
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On September 16 2018 05:04 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2018 04:48 Psychonian wrote:On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said. I don't know why I'm bothering responding to you, but here we go Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang and got ro8 in Code S season 1 2018, and Reynor very nearly 2-0'd Maru in their RO16 match. It's ridiculous to say that neither of them would get air time against Maru, especially when Reynor literally *did* get 45 minutes. In addition, it's hardly fair to judge by that tiny match score in BO3's that Serral is a much worse player than Maru. I will grant that Montreal isn't nearly as impressive as Code S, but dear god man, if you want to prove that point you can do it without straight up lying. almost doing something doesn't count. You either do it, or don't. Reynor lost. Get over it. Edit> I almost send money to a charity. What a noble spirit am I! I'm not denying that Reynor lost lmao. He lost fair and square. But I think that it means at least a little bit in what fashion you lost. I'm also definitely not claiming he's as good as Maru - no one in the world is, in my opinion. I'm just pointing out that what Rodya said is, as usual, just plain incorrect.
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On September 16 2018 04:50 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2018 04:48 Psychonian wrote:On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said. I don't know why I'm bothering responding to you, but here we go Scarlett won IEM Pyeongchang and got ro8 in Code S season 1 2018, and Reynor very nearly 2-0'd Maru in their RO16 match. It's ridiculous to say that neither of them would get air time against Maru, especially when Reynor literally *did* get 45 minutes. In addition, it's hardly fair to judge by that tiny match score in BO3's that Serral is a much worse player than Maru. I will grant that Montreal isn't nearly as impressive as Code S, but dear god man, if you want to prove that point you can do it without straight up lying. For all we know, Reynor is some kind of TvZ savant, it's too bad we can't gauge that yet since he has so few matches vs quality Terran opponents for us to analyze. He is. His style and execution is a nightmare for terran to deal with. I don't have much doubt that ZvT is his best match style-wise. His mechanics are far from optimal as well, or even the level of Serral, Dark etc, which makes him even more exiting as an up and coming star.
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Congrats to Maru!
Feel sad for TY. He was the more refined terran today. Brought interesting strats to the table while Maru proxy raxed every game.
But being gutsy and having killer sense is also a skill. As far as TVT goes, I feel TY was the better player, but Maru took more risks, even when he was about to lose in that last game he didn't flinch and went for it. I guess sometimes this is what it takes to be the champ!
Very entertaining finals!
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Wow, I didn't know Maru has so many biased elitist fans. Very unlikable. The posts of Rodya are always funny and a good read though!
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On September 16 2018 01:29 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2018 00:35 Lgnarrow wrote:On September 15 2018 21:41 IshinShishi wrote:On September 15 2018 22:32 Lgnarrow wrote:
You mean Life? You mean Mvp? Life > Mvp all day all night. Life was playing during the highest skill era. SC2 was young, and without kespa players when Mvp was winning. Mvp was lucky there were million of GSL's in 2011, when he was at his prime. Life was a patchzerg while Mvp fought through injury. One is a legend of sc2 while the other is a failure[/QUOTE]
I absolutely agree with this post. idk why people talk about life, hes done and dusted there is absolutely no point of even mentioning his name you can theory craft all you want, but maru will eat him for breakfast.
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Dave4 Profile PM Joined August 2018 42 Posts Last Edited: 2018-09-15 09:17:53 4 hours ago #50 On September 16 2018 00:51 Rodya wrote: As usual, some people have to come in and mention Serral in every thread about Maru... so annoying. Some quick facts for the rest of this thread (no one shall ever need to state them again in this thread, but I think someone has to in each thread the trolls appear):
1) Serral is 0-3 vs Maru in official matches. They played at WESG semi-finals and Maru won without any game being even slightly close.
2) Serral barely won WCS Montreal against players that couldn't even qualify for GSL, or in Reynor's case, did not perform very well.
3) Maru has won 3 GSL in a row against the best competition in the world... the only possible top 20 player that doesnt play in GSL is Serral.
4) GSL vs the World is a real tournament, but it's one that Koreans traditionally do not prepare that much for and going into it, Serral was not considered a threat to Koreans at ALL. Thus Koreans did not prepare for Serral and as testified by Artosis himself, they were shocked when they saw Serral playing well in the ro8.
5) Gsl vs. the World is NOT a GSL. When you say "X has won a GSL" you mean Code S - not any tournament with GSL in the title!
So no - Serral has lost the head to head in embarassing fashion, and no - Serral has looked much more vulnerable nearly losing to Lambo, Scarlett, and Reynor - players that wouldn't get 45 minutes of air time against Maru and no - winning WCS Montreal isn't remotely as impressive as winning GSL Code S Season 3.
Congrats to Maru - that was a great series although not the best TvT of all time as Tasteless said.
This again lol. 1) They are 3-3. Also Maru is the one who didn't make the finals if GSL v World for them to have met there, so U can't really use this argument
2) Serral has been destroying every tournament - 4 WCS in a row, plus a GSL.
3) yes Maru has done very well but as some have noted, it is in the post-teamhouse era while he is in the only remaining teamhouse. He said himself he couldn't do it without bunny and cure in the interview.
Also how do you say Neeb isn't top 20 if he got to semis, or reynor to ro16? You're arguments are internally inconsistent.
4) Serral prepared no more than the Koreans did. It's not like he prepared for every Korean he would face. All you're saying is that it was a fair fight.
5) GSL v World is actually harder in some regards as it requires a lot more stamina in a short period, and you don't have the luxury of spending a week with your team mates pretending to be your opponent (note only Jin Air can do this as mentioned above)
Come on guy, Maru only -just- beat TY here, you can pretend all you want but it's basically neck and neck between Serral and Maru, if not Serral favoured for the reasons outlined above.
And this is why Region Lock is a great shield for foreigners to hide.
And it is 3-1 for Maru in this year record. (You do not count online result that even played on EU server, unless you don't understand this game.)
Everyone knows Serral is a great player, but fact is comparing Circuit champion to GSL champion is an insult for GSL champion tbh. Why? Because WCS Circuit event is simply just a tournament which does not allow Koreans, and GSL allows everyone.
GSL = Major League WCS Circuit = Minor League
I am not trying to insult/depreciate Circuit or anything, it is just true and we all know there's region lock, which is for protecting foreigners from Koreans. And Serral is pretty much the only guaranteed top KR level player, who is simply destroying the foreign scene. And vs Korea, he won one tournament GSL vs World, but he also got destroyed by Maru and Classic in WESG and IEM which had huge prize pool.
Maru is clearly the only top player in the world now.
But, Serral isn't someone yet to be mentioned like that yet by just winning a tourny in Korea and dominating Circuit. Even Stats has won Super tournament s1, and Rogue has won IEM World championship this year where Maru attended.
I would rather say Maru vs TY/Serral/rest top Koreans.
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Every top "major league" needs a bunch of minor leagues to prepare the close to the best to become good enough for the best league. There is nothing wrong with multiple leagues of several skill levels.
I'm pretty sure the total attendance of minor league and college baseball is similar to the total attendance for major league baseball.
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On September 16 2018 05:40 Kaewins wrote: Congrats to Maru!
Feel sad for TY. He was the more refined terran today. Brought interesting strats to the table while Maru proxy raxed every game.
But being gutsy and having killer sense is also a skill. As far as TVT goes, I feel TY was the better player, but Maru took more risks, even when he was about to lose in that last game he didn't flinch and went for it. I guess sometimes this is what it takes to be the champ!
Very entertaining finals!
Not sure what you meant by refined. Both players games in with a plan: maru was to proxy, and TY was to deflect the proxy into a sharp timing. If you meant refined in terms of macro and late game; Maru basically dominated and outplayed TY.
TY definitely had the counter play to Maru's proxies, but if he didn't get the kill with his sharp timings; Maru would outmacro, micro and maneuver TY.
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Every top "major league" needs a bunch of minor leagues to prepare the close to the best to become good enough for the best league. There is nothing wrong with multiple leagues of several skill levels.
I'm pretty sure the total attendance of minor league and college baseball is similar to the total attendance for major league baseball.
But winning Circuit and GSL definitely cannot be compared.
You do not compare Manchester City winning English Premier League to Liverpool winning in 2nd division League.
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And fun fact about blizzcon is that all winners were unexpected except someone like ByuN in 2016.
Since HotS,
2013 - sOs (12th)
2014 - Life (14th)
2015 - sOs (14th)
2016 - ByuN (KR 3rd)
2017 - Rogue (KR 8th)
even ByuN started rising in late 2016, he used to be someone gets eliminated in Code A in early 2016.
All foreign fans hope Maru vs Serral as blizzcon final
Most of Korean fans think Maru will win this blizzcon
But the actual winner can be someone that nobody expected. :D
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