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In a recent SC2 Blizzard Q&A batch, there was an interesting point raised on the subject of how the Protoss obtain their nourishment.
Here's the direct quote:
5. What do the Protoss eat? (Where do they get energy and mass?) (starcraftcz.com) Protoss gain nutrition from sunlight, or at a pinch, moonlight (which is just reflected sunlight anyway) by absorbing through their skins. They can go for extended periods without absorbing sunlight. What little moisture they need is also absorbed through their skin.
This interesting new fact raises several problems (however hypothetical) about Protoss physiology.
By having Protoss obtaining their energy from the sun, we can assume that they mean the Protoss absorb energy from photons on the molecular level, and convert that electromagnetic radiation energy into chemical energy stored in chemical bonds which they later break to release the stored energy. A key consequence of absorbing energy from light is that you change the wavelength of the reflected light, resulting in a change in the colour of the reflected light.
In photosynthetic organisms on Earth, the dominant pigment used to absorb energy from light is chlorophyll, which absorbs most wavelengths of visible light except green, resulting in a green colour.
However, it seems impossible for this mechanism to work since Protoss skin is pale-ish, meaning that they reflect nearly all wavelengths of light and do not absorb substantial amounts of energy from light.
Also, another incongruous issue raised by making Protoss photosynthetic is that it means that they are autotrophs; organisms that derive energy directly from the abiotic environment and not from other organisms.
Why is this a problem? Well, for one thing, autotrophs are subject to different evolutionary pressures than herotrophs (On Earth, heterotrophs are just about everything except for chemoautotrophic archaebacteria {or whatever their name is nowadays} and photosynthetic organisms).
Autotrophs tend to be non-motile because they do not need to move around to find sources of energy (it's always shining down upon them or streaming out of undersea vents), and they certainly don't have to hunt down their meal (except for certain insectivore plants, but I digress...). Plants on our world do not move around or think or whatever because natural selection does not favor autotrophs that do so.
So, evolutionarily speaking, it does not make sense to have an autotrophic Protoss. All the traits of the Protoss suggest a predatory ancestry, like their communal hierarchy, their manipulative hands, their bipedal stance, etc.
On the other hand, there are already photosynthetic organisms on Aiur. The jungles are full of green 'plants' that quite resemble our own lethargic and stationary plants on Earth. Those plants have no use for pale skin, hands, brains, psionic storms, and so on.
Even the lore of the Starcraft universe contradicts the idea that Protoss could be autotrophic.
Despairing at last, the Xel-Naga focused their frustrated efforts on the most promising of their engineered worlds. Aiur, a massive jungle-world on the galaxy’s fringe, had borne a race of highly advanced beings.
These beings were incredibly adaptable to harsh natural conditions and climates. Their strength and speed were unparalleled amongst the other races known to the Xel-Naga. The race had even developed a rudimentary tribal society based upon group-hunting and warrior rule. However, their most distinct aspect was that they communicated with each other through a very complex method of instinctive telepathy, allowing them to operate communally with striking efficiency. The Xel-Naga were pleased with the progress of their latest creation and conceded that the new race was the first of all their experiments to evolve beyond the feral constraints of baser life-forms. To signify their ascension in the galactic order, the Xel-Naga gave the new race the name of Protoss, or the First Born. The early Protoss lived in harmony and seclusion upon the world of Aiur for hundreds of generations, never knowing of the Xel-Naga who watched over them from afar.
There you have it, right from the original grail of SC's back-story itself. The Protoss were hunters, not some plant or whatever.
So, anyways, I hope that my long boring post will generate some discussion, and hopefully all the replies won't be "lol iz just a game blimey!1".
+ Show Spoiler + Note: Yes, I'm probably reading too deep into this, but hey that's the kind of stuff I like: totally useless and tangential. :3 Plus, the idea of the Protoss being autotrophs bugs the hell out of me. C'mon, plants are lame.
Note#2: Damn TL.Net screws up my formatting.
Note#3: I don't pretend to know everything about biology or xenobiology (is that even a field?), but I'm just basing what I've written on what I've read in books and what not.
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If plantoss are autotrophs, my firebats should do more damage to them.
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Actually I wasn't gonna post anything because I thought to myself 'let him have his fun'. But then you forced me to:
lol iz just a game blimey!1
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thedeadhaji
39470 Posts
I actually really enjoyed reading this and the points you raised. As you say, inconsequential in the grand scheme of things but at least to me, these things are fun to talk about. The part about skin color, absorption and reflection made me think "oh shit I think you're right hahaha".
Btw about the evolutionary pressures part, werent Protoos created by the Xel'Naga? (My SC knowledge on lore is patchy at best, so I could very well be wrong) If they had suddenly appeared out of thin air then they dont have to be in line with evolutionary processes.
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I believe you're missing Blizzard's whole point. They may have been hunters, but as evolution absolved them of their mouths and vocal cords in favor telepathy generated by their highly potent psionic brains, it absolved them of the primitive means of nutrition for auto-sustainment (ie mammals way of feeding). Protoss need such an infinitesimal portion of mass/energy, that sunlight and moisture will be enough. The highly potent flow of psionic energy, generated from their Khaydarin Crystals, Pylons, Nexuses and whatnot is almost enough.
So I believe that the current Protoss specimen is actually more evolved than your initial plants. They have the "purity of form" (opposed to Zerg's "purity of essence"), thus they are almost un-contained by any physical boundaries.
The part about light wavelengths is a slap in Blizzard's face (the more veritable one, at least in my eyes)
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BTW, this tread in the SC2 forum looks like sAviOr in the middle of a stereotypical group of fat 13 year-olds FaSSteST-map-playing nerds with glasses^^
I enjoyed the read
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Except they didn't suddenly appear out of thin air, they're engineered by the Xel'Naga, but their lives still have to run their course.
Way I see it the point is not whether "iz just a game" or "this doesn't match that" but there seems to be some kind of disconnect with the sc1 lore and this current lore (or crackpot idea made up on the fly, I don't know, certainly anyone coulda thought of photosynthesis). I've heard of the "how do protoss eat" being asked out of being nosy fans who want to rationalize everything about starcraft. Guess I just find this unassuring, just like the "3 templar make an archon" and the other thing (what was it again?).
Stick to your own history, jesus.
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On November 05 2007 02:22 minus_human wrote:I believe you're missing Blizzard's whole point. They may have been hunters, but as evolution absolved them of their mouths and vocal cords in favor telepathy generated by their highly potent psionic brains, it absolved them of the primitive means of nutrition for auto-sustainment (ie mammals way of feeding). Protoss need such an infinitesimal portion of mass/energy, that sunlight and moisture will be enough. The highly potent flow of psionic energy, generated from their Khaydarin Crystals, Pylons, Nexuses and whatnot is almost enough. The part about light wavelengths is a slap in Blizzard's face (the more veritable one, at least in my eyes )
That is a valid point, but the original SC lore suggests that the Xel-Naga found the Protoss as a still rather primitive hunter-gatherer society that already had developed psionic capabilities (ie; a communal mind linkage).
They don't really give a solid timescale that would indicate whether or not the Protoss had the time to evolve photosynthesis between the time that the Xel-Naga appear in the Koprulu sector and the time of Starcraft.
But in all likelihood, it might have been the Xel-Naga that modified the Protoss to become autotrophic. While the lore mentions that the Xel-Naga imparted advanced technology to the Protoss, it doesn't even hint at modifying the cellular(?) metabolism of the Protoss. The Xel-Naga might have done this covertly, though this suggests that a huge aspect of Protoss's origins have never been revealed!
We demand confirmation, Blizzard. :D
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Wow, nice post! I agree with your point, but some (small) things are a bit off.
Like: "All the traits of the Protoss suggest a predatory ancestry, like their communal hierarchy, their manipulative hands, their bipedal stance, etc. "
1. predators don't always hunt in groups, and how does this lead into a communal hierachy? 2. they have manipulative hands and bipedal stance, which would evolutionary stand for intelligence and ingenuity. Due to weight of bigger brain and the ability to use your hands more effectively.
If they had claws for hands, the hunter aspect would be more in place.
These few point aren't really important, but I just wanted to add them to you beautifully composed post.
Cheers gj
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As stated, the evolution argument doesn't apply due to the artificial nature, or "intelligent design" (lol at blizzard), nature of the Protoss race, and for the colour of their skin, they might absorb mostly light outside the visual spectrum, such as infrared and ultra-violet, especially if their near-by suns are burning at a significantly higher or lower temperature than the sun.
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Awesome post.
The light problem is a big one. But for the evolution aspect, I would guess that they evolved from meat-eaters or whatever, that after a certain amount of time and technology, they either altered their own genes or bred themselves to be photosynthetic as a means of practicality.
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Why should they be limited to the absorption of sunlight from only the visible spectrum? It radiates many more wavelengths than actually reach us through our atmosphere. They could absorb x-rays or radio waves through a means we don't understand. Also, absorbing energy like this could be far more efficient than the photosynthesis we observe here... the Protoss were engineered, after all.
'Group hunting' could refer to more of a fighting action. Almost all large land herbivores, while not autotrophic, don't actually "hunt" their food down but still fight amongst themselves... and it's been established by things like the Aeon of Strife that Protoss readily fought each other.
As far as their development of working hands, powerful brains and psionic ability, I think it's possible from an evolutionary standpoint that their own fighting could have driven their mutation. This idea isn't applicable over a short period of time, because the race would have to be fighting for a great deal of time to actually influence their own evolution into breeding warriors.
Also, do you think that the Protoss could have actually modified parts of their own physiology as a species after they developed the technology as heterotrophs?
I really like your OP, though I find trivial things like this fun as well.
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On November 05 2007 02:43 hku wrote: they might absorb mostly light outside the visual spectrum, such as infrared and ultra-violet, especially if their near-by suns are burning at a significantly higher or lower temperature than the sun.
That still leaves some problems (thought more surmountable), since ultraviolet light is highly damaging to organic molecules and infrared is too low in energy to realistically fuel cellular processes. Also, the dominance of green plants on Aiur (Green jungle-planet) suggests that the planet orbits a star similar to our own Sun and at a similar distance.
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Absolutely fantastic thread 5/5!
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The absorption could be dependent on the texture of their skin as well as color/pigmentation. Porousness helps.
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Heh, I really enjoyed reading this.
You should send this article to Blizzard and demand an answer. I'm sure amongst all the CS people down there, one has a biology minor.
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Yeah, personally I thought the idea that the Protoss absorbed light to eat was pretty ridiculous... the obvious question would be, where do they get their nutrients? They clearly aren't rooted in the soil, so unless they have no metals in them (and their bodies catalyze their reactions how?) it makes absolutely no sense. I guess they are at a state now where they could dope their water (if they even drink water?), but prior to that?
And as stated, ultraviolet light is energetic enough to dissociate bonds, so their skin color is pretty whack. It's entirely possible that their sun's wavelength of maximum emission would be different than the Earth's, but as also already stated, Aiur is green.
Edit: And no pores would not help, the molecules have to absorb light to do anything with it.
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With the absorbtion of other wavelenghts emerges another problem: Do protoss obsorb the communicational wavelenghts of terrans? Just imagine, a large protoss fleet is attacking a terran planet, and all the communications are down because the protoss absorb the wavelenghts of the radios etc. Anyways, it could of course also be other wavelenghts, but this would be physiologically unreal.
Come to think of it, remember dragonball Z ?? With the GREEN people from namek , they were just like this protoss story, they only drink water (only difference) because they feed themselves from the energy of their surrounding sun(s). The thing is, they were green, and had the ability to grow their arms back etc. Thought this was kinda funny, but lame in respect to the protoss, since SC should be on a whole different level than something like DBZ.
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Oh, one other thing, if the Protoss are photosynthetic, you would expect evolution to select for skin porosity (mentioned above) and also external structures that maximize their body's surface area for light absorption. But then, a Protoss sprouting leaves would be quite weird. ;D
Edit:
And no pores would not help, the molecules have to absorb light to do anything with it. I think he was referring to how pores aid in the gas exchange required for photosynthesis.
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On November 05 2007 02:05 XMShake wrote: If plantoss are autotrophs, my firebats should do more damage to them.
Q F T
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I think you would need leaves to even begin thinking about porosity... there's a whole host of issues with a humanoid creature having very porous skin.
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On November 05 2007 03:23 Jyvblamo wrote: Oh, one other thing, if the Protoss are photosynthetic, you would expect evolution to select for skin porosity (mentioned above) and also external structures that maximize their body's surface area for light absorption. But then, a Protoss sprouting leaves would be quite weird. ;D
hahah true
tosses are walking killer plants !
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You are missing the bigger issue with protoss being plant: how do they reproduce?
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On November 05 2007 03:09 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2007 02:43 hku wrote: they might absorb mostly light outside the visual spectrum, such as infrared and ultra-violet, especially if their near-by suns are burning at a significantly higher or lower temperature than the sun. That still leaves some problems (thought more surmountable), since ultraviolet light is highly damaging to organic molecules and infrared is too low in energy to realistically fuel cellular processes. Also, the dominance of green plants on Aiur (Green jungle-planet) suggests that the planet orbits a star similar to our own Sun and at a similar distance.
I believe i was completely pwned. Protoss should be green or eat food. I'm just a physicist, not a biologist. ><
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1. We only know that their skin reflects the light that the human eye can see. They might absorb lots both above and below our spectrum.
2. Its true that of evolutionarily reasons autotrophs are atleast on earth all stationary. However that is irrelevant since the Xel Naga made the Protoss race. Its not the product of evolution.
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There are plants that aren't green. Flowers for example.
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I'm really enjoying all the intelligent discussion this thread is generating. It's quite a breath of fresh air. :D
On November 05 2007 03:38 DrainX wrote: 1. We only know that their skin reflects the light that the human eye can see. They might absorb lots both above and below our spectrum.
2. Its true that of evolutionarily reasons autotrophs are atleast on earth all stationary. However that is irrelevant since the Xel Naga made the Protoss race. Its not the product of evolution.
1. Ah, but keep in mind, as already mentioned before, only light in the visible spectrum is suitable for absorption by biological materials. Why doesn't the human eye (and indeed the eyes of most other animals) see ultraviolet? Because UV radiation is far too damaging to organic molecules.
2. According to all existing SC canon, the Xel-Naga did not create the Protoss race. They maybe have seeded life on Aiur (Though the back-story is ambiguous on this), but they did not directly manipulate the evolution of the Protoss race until after the Protoss had developed into...
"beings [that] were incredibly adaptable to harsh natural conditions and climates. Their strength and speed were unparalleled amongst the other races known to the Xel-Naga. The race had even developed a rudimentary tribal society based upon group-hunting and warrior rule. However, their most distinct aspect was that they communicated with each other through a very complex method of instinctive telepathy, allowing them to operate communally with striking efficiency."
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On November 05 2007 03:39 gg_hertzz wrote: There are plants that aren't green. Flowers for example. Flowering plants do not derive their energy from their flowers, they have green leaves that photosynthesize for them. The different pigments in the flowers are for attracting pollinating animals. Even so, that is beside the point since all photosynthesizing organisms on Earth (correct me if I'm wrong) use light from the visible spectrum to power the light-dependent reactions in photosynthesis.
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Well...Protoss were found by the Xel'Naga...And already had the telekenises...hunted...and had the communal nature...So...how much were they actually engineered?
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On November 05 2007 03:38 DrainX wrote: 1. We only know that their skin reflects the light that the human eye can see. They might absorb lots both above and below our spectrum.
2. Its true that of evolutionarily reasons autotrophs are atleast on earth all stationary. However that is irrelevant since the Xel Naga made the Protoss race. Its not the product of evolution.
Protoss were not made by Xel'Naga -.-..They were altered ><
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The Protoss have been in battle for 136913094801713 AEONS!
Forgive them for being a little muddy...
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On November 05 2007 02:00 Jyvblamo wrote: In a recent SC2 Blizzard Q&A batch, there was an interesting point raised on the subject of how the Protoss obtain their nourishment. In photosynthetic organisms on Earth, the dominant pigment used to absorb energy from light is chlorophyll, which absorbs most wavelengths of visible light except green, resulting in a green colour.
However, it seems impossible for this mechanism to work since Protoss skin is pale-ish, meaning that they reflect nearly all wavelengths of light and do not absorb substantial amounts of energy from light.
Some Protoss have pale skin (which doesn't make sense) but many have blue, grey or purplish skin. You're right that pale skin (eg Artanis' skin) makes no sense. Also, Dark Templar lived on the until-recently lightless world of Shakuras. I'm thinking their "diet" consisted of sunlamps.
Alternatively, genetic engineering.
During their long exile, the Dark Templars have faced many challenges. Struggling and adapting their arsenal of skills and converting their biology to suit their harsh environment has ultimately resulted in the Dark Archon.
Reference: http://battle.net/scc/protoss/units/darkarchon.shtml
The hunting issue was solved in the Firstborn novel. Protoss don't hunt for food, they hunt for skins, decorations and the like. This means lots of "wasted" carcasses lying around.
Autotrophs tend to be non-motile because they do not need to move around to find sources of energy (it's always shining down upon them or streaming out of undersea vents), and they certainly don't have to hunt down their meal (except for certain insectivore plants, but I digress...). Plants on our world do not move around or think or whatever because natural selection does not favor autotrophs that do so.
So, evolutionarily speaking, it does not make sense to have an autotrophic Protoss. All the traits of the Protoss suggest a predatory ancestry, like their communal hierarchy, their manipulative hands, their bipedal stance, etc.
True. However, I don't think Blizzard cares I think the ancestors of the Protoss may have had some reason to be mobile; for instance, some kind of powerful herbivore. Perhaps Aiur had an ice age and/or got really cloudy; long-lived plants that reproduced really slowly would have to move. Of course, the slow reproduction would really slow down the rate of evolution.
Perhaps a better idea is the example of coral. The coral is a heterotroph, but it lives in a mutalistic relationship with certain algae. Something similar could have happened to the Protoss, except they were mobile at first. Eventually they lost some features they "didn't need" but didn't lose them all. That's not realistic either, but then again neither is psionics
[quote=GG_Hertz]There are plants that aren't green[/quote]
When leaves fall in the autumn, they are rarely green. This is because flowering plants have additional phototrophic chemicals that absorb light; however, chlorophyll is much more abundant, so the leaves appear green. Chlorophyll breaks down before the leaves fall, revealing the other colors. (IIRC these other chemicals "hand off" the energy to chlorophyll somehow.)
Many algae use other phototrophic chemicals predominantly, especially those that grow in relatively deep seawater. (Red algae grow in deep water; they absorb the mainly higher-energy blue light that can penetrate that deeply.)
However, virtually all plants are colored. Ones that aren't (like mistletoes) are parasitic.
As stated before, flowers do not contribute to photosynthesis; those are non-metabolic dyes whose sole purpose is decorative.
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On November 05 2007 03:44 Jyvblamo wrote:I'm really enjoying all the intelligent discussion this thread is generating. It's quite a breath of fresh air. :D Show nested quote +On November 05 2007 03:38 DrainX wrote: 1. We only know that their skin reflects the light that the human eye can see. They might absorb lots both above and below our spectrum.
2. Its true that of evolutionarily reasons autotrophs are atleast on earth all stationary. However that is irrelevant since the Xel Naga made the Protoss race. Its not the product of evolution. 1. Ah, but keep in mind, as already mentioned before, only light in the visible spectrum is suitable for absorption by biological materials. Why doesn't the human eye (and indeed the eyes of most other animals) see ultraviolet? Because UV radiation is far too damaging to organic molecules. 2. According to all existing SC canon, the Xel-Naga did not create the Protoss race. They maybe have seeded life on Aiur (Though the back-story is ambiguous on this), but they did not directly manipulate the evolution of the Protoss race until after the Protoss had developed into... Show nested quote +"beings [that] were incredibly adaptable to harsh natural conditions and climates. Their strength and speed were unparalleled amongst the other races known to the Xel-Naga. The race had even developed a rudimentary tribal society based upon group-hunting and warrior rule. However, their most distinct aspect was that they communicated with each other through a very complex method of instinctive telepathy, allowing them to operate communally with striking efficiency." Edit: Show nested quote +On November 05 2007 03:39 gg_hertzz wrote: There are plants that aren't green. Flowers for example. Flowering plants do not derive their energy from their flowers, they have green leaves that photosynthesize for them. The different pigments in the flowers are for attracting pollinating animals. Even so, that is beside the point since all photosynthesizing organisms on Earth (correct me if I'm wrong) use light from the visible spectrum to power the light-dependent reactions in photosynthesis.
1. I dont think we know enough about what the protoss body and skin is made of to say that vissible light might be damaging to it. It doesnt even have to resemble organic materials on earth.
2. My bad. I guess either the Xel Naga helped the protoss to gain that ability after they found them then. Maybe those crystals changed something in their DNA or whatever the protoss use instead of DNA :p But already using telepathy when the Xel Naga found them I think hints to them not having mouths back then either. If they already had telepathy and maybe no mouths then maybe they already survived by absorbing light through their skins when the Xel Naga found them. I dont think that is verry likely though. If a being suddenly gets an ability like absorbing sunlight that completly changes the evolutionary pressure on it. I cant see the protoss looking like they do and working they way they do if they wernt either engineered, improved themselves geneticly once they got that power or in some way took control of their own evolution and guided it themselves :S
Anyway the Xel Naga might just have reengineered the protoss keeping what traits they wanted and adding whatever they liked once they found them which I think is the most likely answer to photosynthesis and other "evolutionary problems" with the protoss race. I think its stranger how humans have been able to get psionic abilitys :S
btw has anyone else read The dark templar saga: Firstborn? It deals a lot with how the protoss finaly ended the aeon of strife and learned how to use the crystals left by the Xel Naga.
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On November 05 2007 03:56 Kimera757 wrote:Some Protoss have pale skin (which doesn't make sense) but many have blue, grey or purplish skin. You're right that pale skin (eg Artanis' skin) makes no sense. Also, Dark Templar lived on the until-recently lightless world of Shakuras. I'm thinking their "diet" consisted of sunlamps. Alternatively, genetic engineering. Show nested quote +During their long exile, the Dark Templars have faced many challenges. Struggling and adapting their arsenal of skills and converting their biology to suit their harsh environment has ultimately resulted in the Dark Archon. Reference: http://battle.net/scc/protoss/units/darkarchon.shtmlThe hunting issue was solved in the Firstborn novel. Protoss don't hunt for food, they hunt for skins, decorations and the like. This means lots of "wasted" carcasses lying around.
Really good points, on all accounts!
I never read many of the SC novels, but the fact that the Protoss did not hunt for sustenance makes things a bit clearer.
I think the most likely explanation for the Photosynthetic Protoss is that the Protoss began as heterotrophic organisms that very recently became symbiotic with microorganisms that somehow developed the ability to absorb some wavelength of light and convert that into chemical energy. Sort of like a super-chloroplast.
I say recently because this would explain away the fact that they don't seem to have very many adaptations that make them autotrophic, and they still retained behavior patterns of predators (hunting for fur, etc).
The ancestors of modern Protoss would have had an advantage over their cousins that did not have the endosymbiotic UV-synthesizers, and thus became the dominant form on Aiur when the Xel-Naga arrived.
I dunno, just a theory. :D
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On November 05 2007 04:10 Jyvblamo wrote: I say recently because this would explain away the fact that they don't seem to have very many adaptations that make them autotrophic and still retain behavior patterns of predators (hunting for fur, etc). Would have to be very recently counting in evolutionary time. A big change like that changing the pressure of evolution always results in fast changes in the phenotype. Like how the hippos evolved to whales in a verry short time once they left the land for good.
Fun fact: Whales are the closest living relatives of hippos; they evolved from a common ancestor at around 54 million years ago (very short). They are closer relatives to whales then they are to other even-toed ungulates like camels, cows and pigs.
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On November 05 2007 03:44 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2007 03:38 DrainX wrote: 1. We only know that their skin reflects the light that the human eye can see. They might absorb lots both above and below our spectrum.
2. Its true that of evolutionarily reasons autotrophs are atleast on earth all stationary. However that is irrelevant since the Xel Naga made the Protoss race. Its not the product of evolution. 1. Ah, but keep in mind, as already mentioned before, only light in the visible spectrum is suitable for absorption by biological materials. Why doesn't the human eye (and indeed the eyes of most other animals) see ultraviolet? Because UV radiation is far too damaging to organic molecules. Who says that the toss uses the same cell structure as we have on earth? Plants can go all day out in the sun and their cells dont take damage, UV rays are only dangerous to those that dont got the right protection so they can very well take UV rays as food, all they need is different molecules than our photosynthesis uses. ______ Edit: Also it would be very logical if they used UV, since then the wastes would be the paleish light we see when we look at them. ------
Also even if they took the light spectrum as food, it isnt that strange that theyre pale anyway. You know why? Lack of survival of the fittest, just like humans, the race start to degenerate after a while spawning strange pale tosses eventhough the good original ones were dark purple. Same as how many humans grow pale and fat eventhough were made to not have enough to eat and were made to add a lot of protective brown pigment against the UV rays.
But now with us being in houses all day we dont get enough UV protection so its dangerous, same as how many are physical abominations.
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On November 05 2007 04:26 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2007 03:44 Jyvblamo wrote:On November 05 2007 03:38 DrainX wrote: 1. We only know that their skin reflects the light that the human eye can see. They might absorb lots both above and below our spectrum.
2. Its true that of evolutionarily reasons autotrophs are atleast on earth all stationary. However that is irrelevant since the Xel Naga made the Protoss race. Its not the product of evolution. 1. Ah, but keep in mind, as already mentioned before, only light in the visible spectrum is suitable for absorption by biological materials. Why doesn't the human eye (and indeed the eyes of most other animals) see ultraviolet? Because UV radiation is far too damaging to organic molecules. Who says that the toss uses the same cell structure as we have on earth? Plants can go all day out in the sun and their cells dont take damage, UV rays are only dangerous to those that dont got the right protection so they can very well take UV rays as food, all they need is different molecules than our photosynthesis uses. ______ Edit: Also it would be very logical if they used UV, since then the wastes would be the paleish light we see when we look at them. ------ Also even if they took the light spectrum as food, it isnt that strange that theyre pale anyway. You know why? Lack of survival of the fittest, just like humans, the race start to degenerate after a while spawning strange pale tosses eventhough the good original ones were dark purple. Same as how many humans grow pale and fat eventhough were made to not have enough to eat and were made to add a lot of protective brown pigment against the UV rays. But now with us being in houses all day we dont get enough UV protection so its dangerous, same as how many are physical abominations.
Uh sorry, there is an upper limit to bond strength and regardless of what they were made up out of, it would have to be reasonably complex. It would still likely dissociate. Plants are better at repairing damage than humans, so conceivably the Protoss could sit in UV all day if they could repair the damage faster than they took it. But that doesn't mean they would be absorbing it. UV and vacuum UV absorption involve sigma to sigma star and n to sigma star transitions respectively... and they are weak, and thus probably not sufficient enough to provide energy for a plant (let alone one that can move).
Furthermore, if there are green plants that presumably doing photosynthesis on Aiur, they are presumably producing oxygen, which would also mean Aiur has an ozone. Ozone blocks vacuum UV and a lot of UV... they'd starve if it were even possible to begin with (and it isn't really).
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On November 05 2007 03:32 gakkgakk wrote: You are missing the bigger issue with protoss being plant: how do they reproduce?
I only know one thing my friend. + Show Spoiler +All female protoss have tits!
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On November 05 2007 05:01 freelander wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2007 03:32 gakkgakk wrote: You are missing the bigger issue with protoss being plant: how do they reproduce? I only know one thing my friend. + Show Spoiler +All female protoss have tits! Rofl, that one is 100% wrong by Blizzard considering this answer!
Or do their tits shoot photons at the babies?
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On November 05 2007 05:06 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2007 05:01 freelander wrote:On November 05 2007 03:32 gakkgakk wrote: You are missing the bigger issue with protoss being plant: how do they reproduce? I only know one thing my friend. + Show Spoiler +All female protoss have tits! Rofl, that one is 100% wrong by Blizzard considering this answer! Or do their tits shoot photons at the babies?
Oh my God. Tit-lasers, PEW PEW PEW.
+ Show Spoiler +Never thought that I would be the first to make a 'lazers-pew-pew' joke in my own thread... :[
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Damn dawg, the Protoss were created by/from (not really sure) the Xel'naga, they didn't evolve.
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It states in the SC manual that the Protoss "were incredibly adaptable to harsh natural conditions and climates" which could imply they have no trouble taking in light wavelengths that any species we know of would be damaged by. I'm not a bio buff but just a thought.
The other thing we should probably consider is that the Protoss don't necessarily have to absorb light in the same way plants that we know of do. Heck, you are basing your assumptions on life forms we have on Earth. There are a number of things that suggest the Protoss don't really fall into any category that we know of. For example:
- Do you see what happens when a High Templar or Zealot dies? They kind of just disappear in a wisp of blue smoke or kind of phase out or something. - Have you ever seen a Protoss bleed? - Psionic abilities.
While plants on Earth don't really "bleed" either they still generally have some kind of fluid that will sort of bleed out if they are cut. Still, as far as I know there is no known life form that does what a Protoss does when it dies. Lastly, they have psionic abilities that could let them potentially manipulate things (like light perhaps?) to have different properties than we know of or could understand. Heck, the sheer existence of psionic abilities already puts them outside the realm of any life forms we know of hence we probably shouldn't be looking to life on Earth to make assumptions about the Protoss.
That said, this is certainly an interesting conversation.
Edit: Also, was just thinking about the creation of Archons. Perhaps the Protoss are made partially of some kind of energy like the Archons? Then they change over to even more of an energy form when becoming an Archon. Or in the case of Tassadar, he made himself and his ship into what looked like a huge energy ball.
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Protoss actually can bleed. Their blood played a minor plot point in Firstborn (one wrote a message in blood), and a bleeding Protoss was portrayed on the cover of one of the crappy (but official) StarCraft expansions; either Insurrection or Retribution.
In fact, in Firstborn, when a Protoss dies, the Terrans were able to store her body without having to deal with a blue explosion. It may have to do with how a Protoss dies, though, although the Protoss in question was wounded (eg they didn't just die of sickness or something else non-violent).
I think Blizzard doesn't really know how to deal with this issue; hopefully, this will be cleared up in StarCraft II's manual.
I expect Archons will be explained in Shadow Hunters. I vaguely recall reading somewhere that the Protoss were surprised by the creation of the first Archons. I don't believe Protoss are energy beings naturally, but (given sufficient psionic power) can undergo a metamorphosis into "living psionic energy". Protoss can't do this individually, but two powerful psychics (that's High Templar) working together are capable of it.
Making things more confusing:
Adun's fate is one of the most controversial questions in the StarCraft universe. Some say he died a hero, defending his people and blazing like a star. Others say he was a tragic victim of the fear and prejudice that had sprung up between the dark templar and the rest of the Protoss people. Still others say that he burned out, struggling to contain psionic energies far beyond what his body could contain. We do know that some time after his death, a prophecy arose that one day he would return to the Protoss people. If you're interested in further details of Adun's life, you might enjoy the upcoming novel StarCraft: Shadow Hunters by Christie Golden (book 2 of the Dark Templar Saga).
Adun was powerful enough to blaze out? Maybe he was powerful enough to turn into an Archon by himself (and maybe he didn't deliberately do this). Of course, that's speculation, but we'll find out in a month.
http://www.sclegacy.com/content/interviews-6/scl-metzen-interview---lore-exclusive-28/
Thoraxe:
Damn dawg, the Protoss were created by/from (not really sure) the Xel'naga, they didn't evolve.
Nope. The manual disagrees with you.
Despairing at last, the Xel’Naga focused their frustrated efforts on the most promising of their engineered worlds. Aiur, a massive jungle-world on the galaxy’s fringe, had borne a race of highly advanced beings.
The Xel'Naga altered Aiur, left to mess around with other species, then came back and found the Protoss, who already had purity of form.
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About the pale skin, that could just mean that the Protoss absorb other wavelengths, just not what we call the visibile spectrum. The atmoshphere on Aiur might not filter out higher energy radiation, like ours does, so things like ultraviolet, X-rays, maybe even gamma rays could be the best energy source. As for hunting, maybe they hunted creatures that gave off radiation as they died (I don't know why that would come about, but you never know what Aiur was like).
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On November 05 2007 02:05 XMShake wrote: If plantoss are autotrophs, my firebats should do more damage to them.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
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Apparently Protoss do have DNA as revealed in the secret mission, so its unlikely that they're not carbon based and that they can sustain anything too much stronger the visible spectrum
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its a good theory. but. its the future. its another race. etc. and even if that is true -in the starcraft world- protoss are another race.
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
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Protoss are not evolved, they were artificially made by Xel-Naga And Let's say Xel-Naga build these mega awesome photon absorbing battieries which protoss go to to recharge their energy, instead of each protoss unit individually harvest energies.
All these are not subjected to gradual evolutionary pressure because they were made by design, happened over night, and once the system is set up, it is pretty much stable and self-sustaining. They don't need long time to evolve to advanced psych or mega polar bateries, Xel-Naga sat their world up already.
Oh yeah like other's said, they might absorb Xray
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On November 05 2007 07:31 evanthebouncy! wrote: Protoss are not evolved, they were artificially made by Xel-Naga And Let's say Xel-Naga build these mega awesome photon absorbing battieries which protoss go to to recharge their energy, instead of each protoss unit individually harvest energies.
All these are not subjected to gradual evolutionary pressure because they were made by design, happened over night, and once the system is set up, it is pretty much stable and self-sustaining. They don't need long time to evolve to advanced psych or mega polar bateries, Xel-Naga sat their world up already.
That's directly contradicted by the SC manual and the books, which say that the Protoss were already physiologically fully evolved by the time the Xel-Naga turned their attention to them. Even so, I think that Blizzard will just ignore that and say "The Xel-Naga did it" because it pretty much solves everything. :[ But it is not a satisfactory response, it's like just saying 'God did it'.
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On November 05 2007 05:06 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2007 05:01 freelander wrote:On November 05 2007 03:32 gakkgakk wrote: You are missing the bigger issue with protoss being plant: how do they reproduce? I only know one thing my friend. + Show Spoiler +All female protoss have tits! Rofl, that one is 100% wrong by Blizzard considering this answer! Or do their tits shoot photons at the babies?
LOOOOL
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Carrots don't become advanced sentient species. However, If I was an advanced species, I'd probably switch to autotrophism. That accounts for both Protoss evolution and their current state of oh my God Blizzard has monkey typing up its lore in a basement somewhere...
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I think you guys are missing an important point here. For the protoss to live by absorbing light, it would probably need to be in the non-visible region. The reason for this is that UV, xrays, and gamma rays carry much more energy than visible light. Sure plants can grow off normal light, but to be able to run around, and move physically, you would need significantly more energy.
My guess would be that they're skin contains nano-crystals which can absorb the light and turn it into electrical energy (such as quantum dots). From there, chemical reactions could take place. Crystals would simply scatter lower energy light, giving them a pale look.
Also, different skin color would likely signify the environment they were living in. As they are irradiated with different color light, their skin would slowly adapt to absorb and reflect different wavelengths.
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Seriously, 5. What do the Protoss eat? (Where do they get energy and mass?) (starcraftcz.com) Protoss gain nutrition from sunlight, or at a pinch, moonlight (which is just reflected sunlight anyway) by absorbing through their skins. They can go for extended periods without absorbing sunlight. What little moisture they need is also absorbed through their skin.
That doesn't sound like a very protossesque thing. Blizzard confused them with Night Elf again.
Good work, Jyvblamo.
Also, what about Shakuras, home of the DTs? It wasn't a sunny place :O
The planet was dark due to the curious "darkening" of the sun, probably due to engineering by the Xel'Naga. This seems to have been an unnatural disaster for the planet - the skeletons of previously-existing lifeforms can be found scattered over the planet. (It is unclear if these skeletons are fossils.)
There are several hypotheses concerning the strange darkness of Shakuras. One involves the "filtering" of sunlight due to a nexus of powerful psionic energies; another, more realistic theory, is that the world follows a slow rotation, keeping one half of the world darkened for very long periods of time. It has also been noted that Shakuras possesses several satellites, and their orbits-- whether natural or artificial-- may keep the world shrouded in darkness. Also, the matter may lie in the location of the Xel'Naga Temple and the Dark Templar tribes by extension, high in Shakuras' northern hemisphere, resulting in midnight sun, nautical polar night and general perpetual twilight phenomena.
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Shakuras
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On November 05 2007 06:34 azndsh wrote: Apparently Protoss do have DNA as revealed in the secret mission, so its unlikely that they're not carbon based and that they can sustain anything too much stronger the visible spectrum I think they can, after all, protoss (zerg, too) can go on space platforms without pressure suits or some other closed environment, unlike the terrans.
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I understand your approach on this subject.. but ur looking way too far into it. You got to understand that they were anticipating fans of our sorts once this game was marketed. So we are left with wholes in the world of starcraft in which we must take it for what it is.
But dont get me wrong i understand your opposition unconditionlly and applaud your statement
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Everything seems perfectly tied up with Warcraft except for the part where the Dranei crash lands on Azeroth on their inter-dimensional hovering spaceship...
I think Blizzard could use a little rewrite for their explanations for at least the manly Protoss!
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It is a shameful Protoss secret that they have an undercaste of eaters and digesters who transmit their needed energy by psionic means.
Caste Protoss are too proud to poop.
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As we know, every lifeform, which resulted from evolution, must be able to adapt to its natural environment in order to survive and evolve. After that, native characteristics may be changed due to new condition, but at anytime that lifeform is capable of surviving by itself in its normal environment. For example, homo-sapien loss most of its hair due to the use of clothes and shelter. Likewise, the development of human history is entirely because of the struggle for foods, which then lead to everything else such as position, wealth, etc. So, for the Plantoss, with that need of food, should evolve the way Earth's tree did. Tree don't all of sudden grow feets and start walking around. The closest Earth's tree to the Protoss is the predator tree, which is immobile still, but is able to capture prey by its trap. Following this theory, then the Protoss should not exist at all. As in Harry Porter, the reason that they do not have spells to summon food out of thin air, because doing so will cancel all kind of evolvement and development of humanity.
Regarding the wavelength, so far human can only know, either by seeing, feeling or using devices, some wavelength lights. We cannot know if there are still other lights in the atmostphere, and may very well the Protoss absorb those lights. An official clarification from Blizzard would be great.
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Not sure if anyone said this but who said they were hunting for food? Or for that matter who said they were not hunting each others tribes? Think of it like the predator, they just hunt for the sport and prestige.
PS- who the hell thinks toss have pale skin? Aren't they blue? Or was there something wrong with every computer monitor I have comein contact with for the last 10 years.
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I think the Xel`Naga made Plantoss out of:
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On November 05 2007 19:50 CharlieMurphy wrote:
PS- who the hell thinks toss have pale skin? Aren't they blue? Or was there something wrong with every computer monitor I have comein contact with for the last 10 years.
Every computer monitor I've seen shows Artanis with white skin.
Loverman: I think the Xel`Naga made Plantoss out of:
Nothing. The Protoss evolved by themselves.
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On November 05 2007 09:26 Servolisk wrote:Also, what about Shakuras, home of the DTs? It wasn't a sunny place :O Show nested quote +The planet was dark due to the curious "darkening" of the sun, probably due to engineering by the Xel'Naga. This seems to have been an unnatural disaster for the planet - the skeletons of previously-existing lifeforms can be found scattered over the planet. (It is unclear if these skeletons are fossils.)
There are several hypotheses concerning the strange darkness of Shakuras. One involves the "filtering" of sunlight due to a nexus of powerful psionic energies; another, more realistic theory, is that the world follows a slow rotation, keeping one half of the world darkened for very long periods of time. It has also been noted that Shakuras possesses several satellites, and their orbits-- whether natural or artificial-- may keep the world shrouded in darkness. Also, the matter may lie in the location of the Xel'Naga Temple and the Dark Templar tribes by extension, high in Shakuras' northern hemisphere, resulting in midnight sun, nautical polar night and general perpetual twilight phenomena. http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Shakuras The Dark toss eats all the light, thats why you cant see them and why shakuras is a dark place!
Btw, dark toss eats light in the visible spectrum, while light toss eats light of higher energy, that sounds possible. Also psionic storms must be toss poop.
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On November 05 2007 21:33 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2007 09:26 Servolisk wrote:Also, what about Shakuras, home of the DTs? It wasn't a sunny place :O The planet was dark due to the curious "darkening" of the sun, probably due to engineering by the Xel'Naga. This seems to have been an unnatural disaster for the planet - the skeletons of previously-existing lifeforms can be found scattered over the planet. (It is unclear if these skeletons are fossils.)
There are several hypotheses concerning the strange darkness of Shakuras. One involves the "filtering" of sunlight due to a nexus of powerful psionic energies; another, more realistic theory, is that the world follows a slow rotation, keeping one half of the world darkened for very long periods of time. It has also been noted that Shakuras possesses several satellites, and their orbits-- whether natural or artificial-- may keep the world shrouded in darkness. Also, the matter may lie in the location of the Xel'Naga Temple and the Dark Templar tribes by extension, high in Shakuras' northern hemisphere, resulting in midnight sun, nautical polar night and general perpetual twilight phenomena. http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Shakuras The Dark toss eats all the light, thats why you cant see them and why shakuras is a dark place! Btw, dark toss eats light in the visible spectrum, while light toss eats light of higher energy, that sounds possible. Also psionic storms must be toss poop.
If the DTs ate light from the visible spectrum, you'd expect them to be black, not invisible.
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Looking at Protoss from an evolutionary point of view is fine but you are missing out a huge point - they are so technologically advanced that they can essentially control their own evolution (genetic modification). Its a huge possibility that they inserted the genes for UV absorbing proteins aeons ago because it was the most efficient method of energy production - no need to hunt or anything.
This is not far fetched at all because even humans have the technology to insert genes into bacteria and mammals. In 50 years we could easily create a designer baby, and that possibly includes inserting useful genes from other animals (or more likely designed genes to make proteins that have a totally new function). The difficult part would be making the genes (the DNA sequences) for the UV absorbing proteins - but protoss have technologies like warp and stasis...im sure they have surpassed the meager challenges of genetic modification.
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On November 06 2007 01:28 lostman wrote: Looking at Protoss from an evolutionary point of view is fine but you are missing out a huge point - they are so technologically advanced that they can essentially control their own evolution (genetic modification). Its a huge possibility that they inserted the genes for UV absorbing proteins aeons ago because it was the most efficient method of energy production - no need to hunt or anything.
This is not far fetched at all because even humans have the technology to insert genes into bacteria and mammals. In 50 years we could easily create a designer baby, and that possibly includes inserting useful genes from other animals (or more likely designed genes to make proteins that have a totally new function). The difficult part would be making the genes (the DNA sequences) for the UV absorbing proteins - but protoss have technologies like warp and stasis...im sure they have surpassed the meager challenges of genetic modification.
That is a tempting theory, but it is already established that the Protoss became autotrophic before the Xel-Naga gave them super-advanced technology. When the Xel-Naga found the Protoss, the Protoss were still in a tribal society, by all accounts.
Conjectural Timeline: - Life on Aiur originates (Possibly seeded by the Xel-Naga?) - Life differentiates into at least two different forms; green photosynthetic 'plants' and the heterotrophic ancestors of the Protoss - The ancestors of modern Protoss become autotrophic - Pre-modern Protoss develop - Xel-Naga begin guiding the development of the Protoss - Xel-Naga leave, Aeon of Strife - Development of 'modern' Protoss civilization
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The Xel-Naga found a *promising* new race which they then made into purity of form. The main reason they choose the protoss were because they had a psionic bond but that doesn't mean that they didn't singificantly alter the race in other respects. The protoss would never know because the transfer from hunting for food and utilities to only hunting for food would be swift over a few generations and they weren't sufficiently advanced to keep records.
Also there bacteria on earth that can survive inside nuclear reactors. Non visible ligth is dangerous for human cells but that doesn't mean it would be dangerous for protoss cells. For all we know they have insanely effective reconstructive proteins (just like certain bacteria) that can repair bond breaks instantly. They could also have things like triple helix DNA chains and better bonds between the important molecules. In fact doesn't the protoss in the campaing screen for vanilla SC have triple helix DNA? (I don't have the CD so I can't check).
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On November 06 2007 01:57 Jyvblamo wrote: - Life on Aiur originates (Possibly seeded by the Xel-Naga?)
Im pretty sure that the Xel-naga seeded all of the life in the K sector, then let them evolve to see if any of them became an Uber race. And then we got the toss, so really it cant be that hard to imagine that they got some very strange evolution path due to them being the best of all the xel-naga worlds untill they found zerg.
Toss evolution: Tossape, it eats stuff, but can still absorb energy from the sun with its skin. Pretoss, it eats other animals, is a perfect hunter, but it ate most of the animals on the planet since they were to leet. Protoss, since there are not many animals left their mouths disapeared and they started to live 100% on their light absorption!
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sorry, haven't read all the thread, but the more i know about the Protoss from Blizzard, the more it differs from the view i always had about them.
So screw the fan info, i'm sticking to my idea of what are protoss derived from the game i had played.
edit: with this i am not discrediting the OP, nice read indeed, i'm just discrediting Blizzard for making the SC lore less appealing (to me at least).
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On November 06 2007 02:48 PePe QuiCoSE wrote: sorry, haven't read all the thread, but the more i know about the Protoss from Blizzard, the more it differs from the view i always had about them.
Exactly! They're ruining my protoss pride.
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On November 06 2007 02:48 PePe QuiCoSE wrote: sorry, haven't read all the thread, but the more i know about the Protoss from Blizzard, the more it differs from the view i always had about them.
So screw the fan info, i'm sticking to my idea of what are protoss derived from the game i had played.
edit: with this i am not discrediting the OP, nice read indeed, i'm just discrediting Blizzard for making the SC lore less appealing (to me at least). QFT, why couldnt they have said that the protoss eats things with their psi abilities or something? Like directly disolving and absorbing the energy from the normal food items.
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On November 06 2007 03:20 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2007 02:48 PePe QuiCoSE wrote: sorry, haven't read all the thread, but the more i know about the Protoss from Blizzard, the more it differs from the view i always had about them.
So screw the fan info, i'm sticking to my idea of what are protoss derived from the game i had played.
edit: with this i am not discrediting the OP, nice read indeed, i'm just discrediting Blizzard for making the SC lore less appealing (to me at least). QFT, why couldnt they have said that the protoss eats things with their psi abilities or something? Like directly disolving and absorbing the energy from the normal food items.
Or, even better, Blizzard could have not asnwered at all. This way, they just demonstrated horrible incompetence on the part of whoever thought up the answer. The latter's insight went just deep enough to take night-time into account.
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Just a thought, Blizzard said they gain nutrition through absorbing sunlight but perhaps they are just referring to now? As some posters have started to consider, perhaps the Protoss did have mouths and eat in a way more familiar to us and later altered themselves or were altered by the XelNaga to absorb light instead.
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On November 05 2007 02:09 Asta wrote: Actually I wasn't gonna post anything because I thought to myself 'let him have his fun'. But then you forced me to:
lol iz just a game blimey!1
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do they have to poo the light?
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X'el naga made EVERYTHING in the sc universe , thats why humans are now developing their dormant psychic abilities (ghosts). The X'el naga themselves are extradimensional snakes performing their selfish and twisted experiments on species all over the multiverse. When the zerg "eats" the humans and the protoss they will themselves become extradimensional. The X'el naga home dimension is next on the zerg list (they already have some x'el naga dna from the outbreak on Char but they didnt get all of it ).
After thats its straight on to God himself who turns out to be a drunken monkey just randomly bashing buttons on a panel for a banana or an electrical shock (it hasnt quite figured that one out yet).
I CAN'T WAIT FOR SCII :D
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Fun read.
I think with the alien nature of Protoss, the Xel'Naga intervention, and the psionic abilities of toss, there are plenty of unknowns that could allow for some odd chemistry or psionic happenings that could help explain the Blizzard answer of sun and air moisture. I didn't read all the replies, but some of this was already said I think.
1. The psionic energy is something partially drawn from crystals, etc. and it can be converted into energy for body processes.
2. They have a different mechanism for getting energy from light... works differently than plants and their green chlorophyll, etc. Again, psionics could be part of the puzzle.
3. Blizzard was "wrong" (they are just giving the Terran viewpoint) and they warp food into their bellies.
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United Arab Emirates5090 Posts
lol of course it doesn't make sense -__-)a
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Also would like to point out, that many protoss wear clothes. Why would organisms who depend on the sun wear clothes? It blocks the rays.
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They don't need sun very often so why not? It's not like I eat all day.
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On November 06 2007 00:01 Jyvblamo wrote:
If the DTs ate light from the visible spectrum, you'd expect them to be black, not invisible.
They learned that psionic technique from Adun. (He taught them how to hide from the Conclave.)
CuteCuddlyCat The Xel-Naga found a *promising* new race which they then made into purity of form.
I think they were interested in the Protoss because they already had a purity of form.
"These beings were incredibly adaptable to harsh natural conditions and climates. Their strength and speed were unparalleled amongst the other races known to the Xel’Naga."
Sounds like "purity of form" to me.
Pooper-Scooper Also would like to point out, that many protoss wear clothes. Why would organisms who depend on the sun wear clothes? It blocks the rays.
Most of the Protoss we've seen who aren't wearing armor are wearing little in the way of clothing. Zeratul, Artanis and Selendis are all half-naked in the artwork.
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On November 06 2007 06:06 pooper-scooper wrote: Also would like to point out, that many protoss wear clothes. Why would organisms who depend on the sun wear clothes? It blocks the rays.
Never leave your mouth closed, it blocks the food :D
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On November 06 2007 08:06 Kimera757 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2007 00:01 Jyvblamo wrote: would organisms who depend on the sun wear clothes? It blocks the rays. Most of the Protoss we've seen who aren't wearing armor are wearing little in the way of clothing. Zeratul, Artanis and Selendis are all half-naked in the artwork.
Yes the artwork. But consider the templar. The templar is absolutely covered. Even the zealot has a lot of blockage.
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Wow Mr. Biology, you actually made a very good statement, go tell Blizzard and make them feel stupid. Protoss being autotrophs are very weird though, they're like plants which is out of the park imagination, not even close to being realistic.
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On November 06 2007 04:37 Chodorkovskiy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2007 03:20 Klockan3 wrote:On November 06 2007 02:48 PePe QuiCoSE wrote: sorry, haven't read all the thread, but the more i know about the Protoss from Blizzard, the more it differs from the view i always had about them.
So screw the fan info, i'm sticking to my idea of what are protoss derived from the game i had played.
edit: with this i am not discrediting the OP, nice read indeed, i'm just discrediting Blizzard for making the SC lore less appealing (to me at least). QFT, why couldnt they have said that the protoss eats things with their psi abilities or something? Like directly disolving and absorbing the energy from the normal food items. Or, even better, Blizzard could have not asnwered at all. This way, they just demonstrated horrible incompetence on the part of whoever thought up the answer. The latter's insight went just deep enough to take night-time into account. Its not like protoss absorbing light for energy is something new that the person answering the FAQ made up. Its in the Starcraft novells and I wouldnt be supriced if its mentioned elsewhere too.
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There's just no way a warrior can get enough energy from the sun to walk and fight, I don't see that happening. Blizzard should've just left it alone. =[
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On November 06 2007 12:30 pooper-scooper wrote:
Yes the artwork. But consider the templar. The templar is absolutely covered. Even the zealot has a lot of blockage.
He's wearing armor (much of it ceremonial in the case of the High Templar), which they could take off to eat. (Human troopers often do this.) Both have their heads exposed; they don't wear helmets like Terrans do.
Alternatively, he could use a high intensity sun lamp or Pylon's psionic energy to feed himself.
His suit might have lamps underneath it; the tech probably isn't beyond what the Protoss have.
Frits There's just no way a warrior can get enough energy from the sun to walk and fight, I don't see that happening. Blizzard should've just left it alone. =[
They might have a real biologist on staff who told them this is possible.
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I'm not sure if this has already been discussed, after reading about half of it I started zoning out but:
Light Absorbtion: There is more to light than just the color wavelength, isn't it possible that they absorb the other elements of light, such as infrared, gamma waves and ultraviolet they aren't earth lifeforms why should they be bound by our conditions and not theirs?
About mobility: Since Protoss were originally created by the Xel'Naga couldn't the Xel'Naga spliced these photorectors into the protoss' skin and it not be an evolutionary process? Also there are jelly fish (the name escapes me) that contain chlorophyll in their bodies and it's been documented that the jellies move away from the shawdows and seek the light. So not all organisms that rely on the sun for energy are stationary.
Rudimentary tribal society based upon group-hunting and warrior rule: This is probably the hardest point to justify(I am very unfamiliar with SC lore), but I think that what this refers to is their society style ie the khala, caste system and etc, not that it is what they are. Also maybe they are hunting for thing equivalent to our horses, animals that we use but not eat. Although I have nothing to justify this since just about everything about that protoss is mechancial
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On November 07 2007 03:12 purekorea wrote: Although I have nothing to justify this since just about everything about that protoss is mechancial Im pretty sure that eventhough the protoss evolved naturally the Xel-naga aided them in doing scientific breakthroughs. So when the Xel-naga found them they werent that advanced technologically eventhough they were a very advanced lifeform.
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For the last time, the rules governing chemical bonding and electronic excitation don't change just because they're Protoss. No, they cannot absorb gamma rays, any bonds in their body would dissociate so quickly without any shielding it wouldn't even be funny, psionic powers be damned. There's a reason Gamma Ray Bursters could wipe out large swaths of life. As already mentioned, IR is less energetic than visible light, and generally only vibrationally excites molecules. Molecules absorb UV very weakly (sigma or n electrons must be excited to sigma star, not an easy process), and the fact that organic ones tend to dissociate in it makes it even less feasible. Not to mention there's probably an ozone on Aiur due to the green plants, which is a third strike on this.
Could a humanoid like creature that is an autotroph arise? Maybe... but not with the traits the Protoss have.
Although I'm sure there's different ways life could come about other than the way it has here on Earth, Blizzard hasn't put out something even slightly feasible. I doubt they'll change the skin color of Protoss to green either, lest anyone cries orcs in space again. They could just go "It's a parallel universe! The laws of physics are a bunch of lies!" but they'd be stupid to do so. My guess is they thought they'd be clever and throw out something pseudo scientific to impress people, but they neglected the part where they make it clever and feasible.
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[QUOTE]On November 07 2007 04:24 zer0das wrote: For the last time, the rules governing chemical bonding and electronic excitation don't change just because they're Protoss. QUOTE]
This is probably right, but I'd like to give my blind protoss faith answer anyways:
They warp time and space surely they change the rules governing chemial bonding. I don't think "recall" , "statis field", "Hallucination" are possible for us and yet protoss have it.(might be wrong I'm no science major)
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Blizzard's explanation of how the Protoss eat is as lame as Lucas giving a scientific explanation to the Force.
My own opinion on the subject is that I prefer to think of the Protoss eating in little Protoss cafes where the wait staff consists of one probe with a chef's hat on. He glides from table to table displaying a little holographic menu that comes from a specialized chip within its little metal body. The Zealot telepathically communicates what he would like to eat, and then the probe sets down warp anchors to teleport the food in from the kitchen 20 feet away. So like imagine the Zealot wanted a BLT. The probe would set the swirling warp point on his plate and then an inch or so away, plant the warp anchor for a Cobb salad.
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There's stopping time, moving matter from one place to another instantaneously, and creating simulacrums that fool others... and then there's changing the very nature of matter altogether. The first three I could envision an old enough civilization doing given enough time. The last one borders the impossible (sure you can smash nuclei together and get unstable nuclei that are different from the ones that are natural, but can anything be done after that? Can the way atoms want to behave be altered? I would say no. You can change how you mess with them to induce different behavior from them, but that isn't changing their properties...)
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On November 07 2007 05:17 zer0das wrote: There's stopping time, moving matter from one place to another instantaneously, and creating simulacrums that fool others... and then there's changing the very nature of matter altogether. The first three I could envision an old enough civilization doing given enough time. The last one borders the impossible (sure you can smash nuclei together and get unstable nuclei that are different from the ones that are natural, but can anything be done after that? Can the way atoms want to behave be altered? I would say no. You can change how you mess with them to induce different behavior from them, but that isn't changing their properties...) .... You can somehow invision that we can build functioning teleporters, machines that stops time(Wich by the way are extremely impossible due to the laws of physics wich are much less forgiving than the laws of chemistry), but not that we are able to find a new matter wich can absorb the light of higher frequensies than the visible spectrum?
You know, you are ridicilous here, since we already got the technology to absorb the energy from higher frequencies than the visible spectrum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell
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Despairing at last, the Xel-Naga focused their frustrated efforts on the most promising of their engineered worlds. Aiur, a massive jungle-world on the galaxy’s fringe, had borne a race of highly advanced beings.
These beings were incredibly adaptable to harsh natural conditions and climates. Their strength and speed were unparalleled amongst the other races known to the Xel-Naga. The race had even developed a rudimentary tribal society based upon group-hunting and warrior rule. However, their most distinct aspect was that they communicated with each other through a very complex method of instinctive telepathy, allowing them to operate communally with striking efficiency. The Xel-Naga were pleased with the progress of their latest creation and conceded that the new race was the first of all their experiments to evolve beyond the feral constraints of baser life-forms. To signify their ascension in the galactic order, the Xel-Naga gave the new race the name of Protoss, or the First Born. The early Protoss lived in harmony and seclusion upon the world of Aiur for hundreds of generations, never knowing of the Xel-Naga who watched over them from afar.
LOOK MA!!! IT'S ME !!!
more on topic: Interesting read, I really wanna see blizzard's response to this.
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One explanation is of course that the Protoss race were originally very primitive (like a plant or w/e) but then evolved and became very inteligent etc. so they evolved/made themselves get energi from the sun instead of hunting down bitches. like mankind probably also will in the future.
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On November 07 2007 05:37 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2007 05:17 zer0das wrote: There's stopping time, moving matter from one place to another instantaneously, and creating simulacrums that fool others... and then there's changing the very nature of matter altogether. The first three I could envision an old enough civilization doing given enough time. The last one borders the impossible (sure you can smash nuclei together and get unstable nuclei that are different from the ones that are natural, but can anything be done after that? Can the way atoms want to behave be altered? I would say no. You can change how you mess with them to induce different behavior from them, but that isn't changing their properties...) .... You can somehow invision that we can build functioning teleporters, machines that stops time(Wich by the way are extremely impossible due to the laws of physics wich are much less forgiving than the laws of chemistry), but not that we are able to find a new matter wich can absorb the light of higher frequensies than the visible spectrum?
Our current understanding of chemistry is strongly derived from the effects of Quantum mechanics. I'm by no means an expert in quantum physics, but it get's very, very, very weird. It may be true that the old classical laws set forth by Newton and Einstein were very 'unforgiving', but quantum mechanics shows that the universe does not operate in a 'reasonable' fashion.
Some things are still impossible, like transmitting classical information at speeds exceeding the speed of light, though, but I'm not well informed enough to tell anyone the absolute limits of quantum physics.
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On November 07 2007 05:37 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2007 05:17 zer0das wrote: There's stopping time, moving matter from one place to another instantaneously, and creating simulacrums that fool others... and then there's changing the very nature of matter altogether. The first three I could envision an old enough civilization doing given enough time. The last one borders the impossible (sure you can smash nuclei together and get unstable nuclei that are different from the ones that are natural, but can anything be done after that? Can the way atoms want to behave be altered? I would say no. You can change how you mess with them to induce different behavior from them, but that isn't changing their properties...) .... You can somehow invision that we can build functioning teleporters, machines that stops time(Wich by the way are extremely impossible due to the laws of physics wich are much less forgiving than the laws of chemistry), but not that we are able to find a new matter wich can absorb the light of higher frequensies than the visible spectrum? You know, you are ridicilous here, since we already got the technology to absorb the energy from higher frequencies than the visible spectrum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell
Uh... you think photovoltaic cells are anything that vaguely resembles life (and the ones that are organic do degrade from UV)? They have terrible effeciencies and are inorganic to boot (I'd really like to see a semiconductor life form walking around). The issue isn't whether or not it is possible, it's whether or not a lifeform could incorporate this into their body and intake enough energy to do stuff that a humanoid does. With the handicap of them not using the most effecient known process (photosynthesis) in doing so.
If you think the laws of chemistry are more forgiving than physics... well, not really. Matter does whatever the hell it wants, and you just deal with it. I'd say there's far more undiscovered things in physics, which would make seemingly exotic things very possible.
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On November 07 2007 04:24 zer0das wrote: For the last time, the rules governing chemical bonding and electronic excitation don't change just because they're Protoss. No, they cannot absorb gamma rays, any bonds in their body would dissociate so quickly without any shielding it wouldn't even be funny, psionic powers be damned. There's a reason Gamma Ray Bursters could wipe out large swaths of life. As already mentioned, IR is less energetic than visible light, and generally only vibrationally excites molecules. Molecules absorb UV very weakly (sigma or n electrons must be excited to sigma star, not an easy process), and the fact that organic ones tend to dissociate in it makes it even less feasible. Not to mention there's probably an ozone on Aiur due to the green plants, which is a third strike on this.
Could a humanoid like creature that is an autotroph arise? Maybe... but not with the traits the Protoss have.
Although I'm sure there's different ways life could come about other than the way it has here on Earth, Blizzard hasn't put out something even slightly feasible. I doubt they'll change the skin color of Protoss to green either, lest anyone cries orcs in space again. They could just go "It's a parallel universe! The laws of physics are a bunch of lies!" but they'd be stupid to do so. My guess is they thought they'd be clever and throw out something pseudo scientific to impress people, but they neglected the part where they make it clever and feasible.
uhh maybe protoss "life" is different? they might be based off building blocks other than our familiar amino acids, with hereditary information stored in mechanisms other than DNA. I see no reason why gamma radiation would be damaging, as long as their makeup is stable in the presence of high energy...
also the reason why plants absorb red light is because of the electrons are part of the chlorin ring with magnesium center, and the numerous conjugated double bonds lowers the absorption spectra into the visible range. however less conjugation = higher absorption spectra, giving rise to the possibility that there can exist things that absorb other than visible light... and actually, photosynthetic bacteria do exist that actually proliferate in infared/darker red (the infared that you said only "vibrates" molecules) range. chlorophyll evolved because of the dominant presence of visible light on earth. the reason why things don't absorb UV is because of the vulnerability of DNA to mutation when it is exposed to UV light. if other planets such as auir received drastically different electromagnetic radiation than we do on earth, i'm sure their life would deal more with the radiation they receive, and not the visible light we have
also their green plants could operate by completely different mechanisms than ours on earth. green simply means that they do not absorb green light, but that could be a byproduct of a pigment they have that absorbs other EM radiation, and it just happens that green light was one of the higher quanta level that they don't absorb.
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For the record...
The sun provides about 10 kcal/mol (of photons) of energy (at least that's what hits us). Most bonds (organic ones, but all bonds are on the same order or two) take around 100 kcal/mol to cleave them. UV is anywhere from 10-100 kcal/mol. Gamma rays give off 9.4*10^7 kcal/mol (just to illustrate a point... 94000000 kcal/mol). Anything hit by a gamma ray is going to form radicals and ions very easily, which is going to set off a chain reaction that is going to do god knows what, and that is a very bad thing for anything living. "High" energy is a bit of an understatement...
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On November 07 2007 07:42 LeoTheLion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2007 04:24 zer0das wrote: For the last time, the rules governing chemical bonding and electronic excitation don't change just because they're Protoss. No, they cannot absorb gamma rays, any bonds in their body would dissociate so quickly without any shielding it wouldn't even be funny, psionic powers be damned. There's a reason Gamma Ray Bursters could wipe out large swaths of life. As already mentioned, IR is less energetic than visible light, and generally only vibrationally excites molecules. Molecules absorb UV very weakly (sigma or n electrons must be excited to sigma star, not an easy process), and the fact that organic ones tend to dissociate in it makes it even less feasible. Not to mention there's probably an ozone on Aiur due to the green plants, which is a third strike on this.
Could a humanoid like creature that is an autotroph arise? Maybe... but not with the traits the Protoss have. This is why people bring up endosymbiosis, like a coral. Such creatures exist in real life. Show nested quote +Although I'm sure there's different ways life could come about other than the way it has here on Earth, Blizzard hasn't put out something even slightly feasible. I doubt they'll change the skin color of Protoss to green either, lest anyone cries orcs in space again. They could just go "It's a parallel universe! The laws of physics are a bunch of lies!" but they'd be stupid to do so. My guess is they thought they'd be clever and throw out something pseudo scientific to impress people, but they neglected the part where they make it clever and feasible. uhh maybe protoss "life" is different? they might be based off building blocks other than our familiar amino acids, with hereditary information stored in mechanisms other than DNA. I see no reason why gamma radiation would be damaging, as long as their makeup is stable in the presence of high energy... also the reason why plants absorb red light is because of the electrons are part of the chlorin ring with magnesium center, and the numerous conjugated double bonds lowers the absorption spectra into the visible range. however less conjugation = higher absorption spectra, giving rise to the possibility that there can exist things that absorb other than visible light... and actually, photosynthetic bacteria do exist that actually proliferate in infared/darker red (the infared that you said only "vibrates" molecules) range. chlorophyll evolved because of the dominant presence of visible light on earth. the reason why things don't absorb UV is because of the vulnerability of DNA to mutation when it is exposed to UV light. if other planets such as auir received drastically different electromagnetic radiation than we do on earth, i'm sure their life would deal more with the radiation they receive, and not the visible light we have also their green plants could operate by completely different mechanisms than ours on earth. green simply means that they do not absorb green light, but that could be a byproduct of a pigment they have that absorbs other EM radiation, and it just happens that green light was one of the higher quanta level that they don't absorb.
I agree with most of your points except the part about DNA. Dark Origin made it clear that Zerg and Protoss both use DNA.
Also the point about absorbing the "wrong" type of light. Bees can see ultraviolet light, so presumably it's biologically possible to store some wavelenghts of UV light. (Artanis might look "black" under a UV lamp.) However, the basic rules of biology forbid absorbing gamma radiation.
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On November 07 2007 08:52 Kimera757 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2007 07:42 LeoTheLion wrote:On November 07 2007 04:24 zer0das wrote: For the last time, the rules governing chemical bonding and electronic excitation don't change just because they're Protoss. No, they cannot absorb gamma rays, any bonds in their body would dissociate so quickly without any shielding it wouldn't even be funny, psionic powers be damned. There's a reason Gamma Ray Bursters could wipe out large swaths of life. As already mentioned, IR is less energetic than visible light, and generally only vibrationally excites molecules. Molecules absorb UV very weakly (sigma or n electrons must be excited to sigma star, not an easy process), and the fact that organic ones tend to dissociate in it makes it even less feasible. Not to mention there's probably an ozone on Aiur due to the green plants, which is a third strike on this.
Could a humanoid like creature that is an autotroph arise? Maybe... but not with the traits the Protoss have. This is why people bring up endosymbiosis, like a coral. Such creatures exist in real life. Although I'm sure there's different ways life could come about other than the way it has here on Earth, Blizzard hasn't put out something even slightly feasible. I doubt they'll change the skin color of Protoss to green either, lest anyone cries orcs in space again. They could just go "It's a parallel universe! The laws of physics are a bunch of lies!" but they'd be stupid to do so. My guess is they thought they'd be clever and throw out something pseudo scientific to impress people, but they neglected the part where they make it clever and feasible. uhh maybe protoss "life" is different? they might be based off building blocks other than our familiar amino acids, with hereditary information stored in mechanisms other than DNA. I see no reason why gamma radiation would be damaging, as long as their makeup is stable in the presence of high energy... also the reason why plants absorb red light is because of the electrons are part of the chlorin ring with magnesium center, and the numerous conjugated double bonds lowers the absorption spectra into the visible range. however less conjugation = higher absorption spectra, giving rise to the possibility that there can exist things that absorb other than visible light... and actually, photosynthetic bacteria do exist that actually proliferate in infared/darker red (the infared that you said only "vibrates" molecules) range. chlorophyll evolved because of the dominant presence of visible light on earth. the reason why things don't absorb UV is because of the vulnerability of DNA to mutation when it is exposed to UV light. if other planets such as auir received drastically different electromagnetic radiation than we do on earth, i'm sure their life would deal more with the radiation they receive, and not the visible light we have also their green plants could operate by completely different mechanisms than ours on earth. green simply means that they do not absorb green light, but that could be a byproduct of a pigment they have that absorbs other EM radiation, and it just happens that green light was one of the higher quanta level that they don't absorb. However, the basic rules of biology forbid absorbing gamma radiation.
Nah, living things can absorb gamma radiation... and then fragment many times and react in exciting and painful ways.
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lol, this is funny stuff.
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what about Dark Templar? doesnt the name alone contradict the "fact" that they absorb photons for breakfast?
+how do they eat if sun shines right through their cloak
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On November 05 2007 02:05 XMShake wrote: If plantoss are autotrophs, my firebats should do more damage to them.
WTF, is this pokemon now? =p
Op, i think you're reading way too much into it, but if it makes you happy, HF =]\
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On November 07 2007 10:59 [angst]chraej wrote: what about Dark Templar? doesnt the name alone contradict the "fact" that they absorb photons for breakfast?
+how do they eat if sun shines right through their cloak
If im not mistaken Dark Templar are called that because they strayed from the "normal Protoss" path of life and not cause they cloak.
And the cloaking is because they bend the lightwaves around them not that they are transparent.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoautotroph
says: The bacteriochlorophyll pigment absorbs light in the extreme UV and infra-red parts of the spectrum which is outside the range used by normal chlorophyll.
So, possible.
I think shakuras is also supposed to emit light from underground, if you look at the doodads.
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Post too long, didn't read.
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On November 07 2007 08:45 zer0das wrote: For the record...
The sun provides about 10 kcal/mol (of photons) of energy (at least that's what hits us). Most bonds (organic ones, but all bonds are on the same order or two) take around 100 kcal/mol to cleave them. UV is anywhere from 10-100 kcal/mol. Gamma rays give off 9.4*10^7 kcal/mol (just to illustrate a point... 94000000 kcal/mol). Anything hit by a gamma ray is going to form radicals and ions very easily, which is going to set off a chain reaction that is going to do god knows what, and that is a very bad thing for anything living. "High" energy is a bit of an understatement... I think he missworded that and intended to say UV rays. Gamma rays are extremely impossible, it would be like thinking that any form of life can exist on the sun.
On November 07 2007 08:52 Kimera757 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2007 07:42 LeoTheLion wrote:On November 07 2007 04:24 zer0das wrote: For the last time, the rules governing chemical bonding and electronic excitation don't change just because they're Protoss. No, they cannot absorb gamma rays, any bonds in their body would dissociate so quickly without any shielding it wouldn't even be funny, psionic powers be damned. There's a reason Gamma Ray Bursters could wipe out large swaths of life. As already mentioned, IR is less energetic than visible light, and generally only vibrationally excites molecules. Molecules absorb UV very weakly (sigma or n electrons must be excited to sigma star, not an easy process), and the fact that organic ones tend to dissociate in it makes it even less feasible. Not to mention there's probably an ozone on Aiur due to the green plants, which is a third strike on this.
Could a humanoid like creature that is an autotroph arise? Maybe... but not with the traits the Protoss have. This is why people bring up endosymbiosis, like a coral. Such creatures exist in real life. Although I'm sure there's different ways life could come about other than the way it has here on Earth, Blizzard hasn't put out something even slightly feasible. I doubt they'll change the skin color of Protoss to green either, lest anyone cries orcs in space again. They could just go "It's a parallel universe! The laws of physics are a bunch of lies!" but they'd be stupid to do so. My guess is they thought they'd be clever and throw out something pseudo scientific to impress people, but they neglected the part where they make it clever and feasible. uhh maybe protoss "life" is different? they might be based off building blocks other than our familiar amino acids, with hereditary information stored in mechanisms other than DNA. I see no reason why gamma radiation would be damaging, as long as their makeup is stable in the presence of high energy... also the reason why plants absorb red light is because of the electrons are part of the chlorin ring with magnesium center, and the numerous conjugated double bonds lowers the absorption spectra into the visible range. however less conjugation = higher absorption spectra, giving rise to the possibility that there can exist things that absorb other than visible light... and actually, photosynthetic bacteria do exist that actually proliferate in infared/darker red (the infared that you said only "vibrates" molecules) range. chlorophyll evolved because of the dominant presence of visible light on earth. the reason why things don't absorb UV is because of the vulnerability of DNA to mutation when it is exposed to UV light. if other planets such as auir received drastically different electromagnetic radiation than we do on earth, i'm sure their life would deal more with the radiation they receive, and not the visible light we have also their green plants could operate by completely different mechanisms than ours on earth. green simply means that they do not absorb green light, but that could be a byproduct of a pigment they have that absorbs other EM radiation, and it just happens that green light was one of the higher quanta level that they don't absorb. I agree with most of your points except the part about DNA. Dark Origin made it clear that Zerg and Protoss both use DNA. Also the point about absorbing the "wrong" type of light. Bees can see ultraviolet light, so presumably it's biologically possible to store some wavelenghts of UV light. (Artanis might look "black" under a UV lamp.) However, the basic rules of biology forbid absorbing gamma radiation. Well, i think that the toss really dont have DNA but Blizzard worded their genetics DNA just to make people understand what they are talking about.
Also even if they got DNA they dont need to have them distributed the same way we do, for example if they didnt have any growth in the outer layers of their skin and thus didnt have any DNA there they wouldnt be vulnerable to UV radiation at all and thus can live from it easily. I mean, we have a full copy of our DNA in every cell, wich is highly excessive.
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On November 07 2007 10:59 [angst]chraej wrote: what about Dark Templar? doesnt the name alone contradict the "fact" that they absorb photons for breakfast?
+how do they eat if sun shines right through their cloak
Maybe they only cloak in combat. The game is an RTS; there's a universe "behind" it. They uncloak and the Zealots take off their armor in the Protoss sunlight bars
Klockan Well, i think that the toss really dont have DNA but Blizzard worded their genetics DNA just to make people understand what they are talking about.
No, I think you're wrong.
Zerg can infest Terrans because both use DNA. The Hybrids couldn't exist unless the Protoss also used DNA.
Also even if they got DNA they dont need to have them distributed the same way we do, for example if they didnt have any growth in the outer layers of their skin and thus didnt have any DNA there they wouldnt be vulnerable to UV radiation at all and thus can live from it easily. I mean, we have a full copy of our DNA in every cell, wich is highly excessive.
This makes a bit more sense. This brings up all kinds of questions like "how are the photosynthetic compounds getting to those dead cells" but maybe they've got a kind of red-blood-cell thing going on. Then there's the question of energy transferral to the not-about-to-die cells...
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On November 07 2007 07:34 zer0das wrote: If you think the laws of chemistry are more forgiving than physics... well, not really. Matter does whatever the hell it wants, and you just deal with it. I'd say there's far more undiscovered things in physics, which would make seemingly exotic things very possible. I just have to answer this btw, since breaking the laws of fysics is fun!
Now lets say that the protoss evolved a way to convert electromagnetic waves into matter. Also they evolved a way to convert matter into energy in a usefull way. Now they are walking nuclear powerplants! Also if we say they convert them itno electrons, the UV rays wouldnt be able to damage the cells due to excessive amounths of electrons making the free radicals harmless.
How does it work you say? Well, it uses the same principles as teleports and stasis fields
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-View Larger Size-
This image shows the power on a particular surface provided by sunlight (to the earth) according to the different wavelengths in sunlight. The yellow sections show the amount of power at the top of our atmosphere while the red shows how much would be on the same-sized area but at sea level.
According to wikipedia, about half the energy provided by sunlight is in the visible part of the EM spectrum. The other almost-half of the energy is below that in the infrared part of the spectrum. UV light is only the very small portion that's left over. A few scant UV photons are going to power a physical form as impressive as a Protoss? We generally don't bother with solar panels that collect energy in UV range because there simply isn't enough energy there to justify the expense. Plants know where it's at.
To emit additional, high energy light, Aiur's star would have to be much hotter and would probably start killing off most life forms on Aiur's surface (I would guess). That's even assuming the Protoss can absorb UV light in the first place, which is so remote that it defeats Blizzard specifying that the Protoss can live off sunlight in the first place.
Also, I'm no expert on biology, chemistry and certainly not biochemistry, but "higher" life forms tend to require far more energy in comparison to "lower" life forms. They're more complex and are greater concentrations of matter and energy. Higher life forms live by consuming lower life forms. This leaves human beings with a very large energy requirements in comparison to the physical acts we perform. Protoss, on the other hand, would be even more complex considering their additional functions (like psionics and light absorption) as well as their greater intelligence, durability, strength, speed. For me to believe that it can survive on a small fraction of what a human survives upon doesn't make sense to me.
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On November 07 2007 22:40 Klockan3 wrote:I just have to answer this btw, since breaking the laws of fysics is fun! Now lets say that the protoss evolved a way to convert electromagnetic waves into matter. Also they evolved a way to convert matter into energy in a usefull way. Now they are walking nuclear powerplants! Also if we say they convert them itno electrons, the UV rays wouldnt be able to damage the cells due to excessive amounths of electrons making the free radicals harmless. How does it work you say? Well, it uses the same principles as teleports and stasis fields
That would use so much energy it wouldn't run on the sunlight it collects. Unless of course you want to appeal to a magic kind of psionics that can generate energy from nothing, in which case I'm not sure why you'd need the Protoss to absorb light at all? (Making matter with their limitless energy source?)
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On November 07 2007 23:26 Tiptup wrote:+ Show Spoiler +-View Larger Size-This image shows the power on a particular surface provided by sunlight (to the earth) according to the different wavelengths in sunlight. The yellow sections show the amount of power at the top of our atmosphere while the red shows how much would be on the same-sized area but at sea level. According to wikipedia, about half the energy provided by sunlight is in the visible part of the EM spectrum. The other almost-half of the energy is below that in the infrared part of the spectrum. UV light is only the very small portion that's left over. A few scant UV photons are going to power a physical form as impressive as a Protoss? We generally don't bother with solar panels that collect energy in UV range because there simply isn't enough energy there to justify the expense. Plants know where it's at. To emit additional, high energy light, Aiur's star would have to be much hotter and would probably start killing off most life forms on Aiur's surface (I would guess). That's even assuming the Protoss can absorb UV light in the first place, which is so remote that it defeats Blizzard specifying that the Protoss can live off sunlight in the first place. Also, I'm no expert on biology, chemistry and certainly not biochemistry, but "higher" life forms tend to require far more energy in comparison to "lower" life forms. They're more complex and are greater concentrations of matter and energy. Higher life forms live by consuming lower life forms. This leaves human beings with a very large energy requirements in comparison to the physical acts we perform. Protoss, on the other hand, would be even more complex considering their additional functions (like psionics and light absorption) as well as their greater intelligence, durability, strength, speed. For me to believe that it can survive on a small fraction of what a human survives upon doesn't make sense to me. Heres how it works: Hotter mats makes higher frequencies on the electro magnetic waves. Further distance from the star makes it colder. As such you can easily have earth like temperature on aiur at the same time as you have much higher UV simply by having the star as a very hot one together with having aiur further away from it, or making it a smaller star such as a white dwarf.
However in such an envoirment Aiur wouldnt be very green etc. But really, this is taking this thing way to far in a game were obvious fantasy aspects such as teleports, stasis fields, warping, wings in space, full body armor several inches thick, hovering factories, storms conjured from thin air and broodlings instant killing tanks exist.
That would use so much energy it wouldn't run on the sunlight it collects.
I was allowed to change the laws of fysics, in this case transforming matter to energy and back gives 100% conversion and no waste at all in the forms of heat or spilled light.
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On November 07 2007 23:38 Klockan3 wrote: But really, this is taking this thing way to far in a game were obvious fantasy aspects such as teleports, stasis fields, warping, wings in space, full body armor several inches thick, hovering factories, storms conjured from thin air and broodlings instant killing tanks exist.
Why? Last time I checked, Blizzard didn't try to tell us that those ran on sunlight.
I was allowed to change the laws of fysics, in this case transforming matter to energy and back gives 100% conversion and no waste at all in the forms of heat or spilled light.
You're taking all the science out of science fiction. There's no fun left in the genre after that.
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My main objection was always that the amount of energy required by the Protoss would be much more than either UV or IR could provide (also taking into account the inefficiencies of the processes used to convert them to usable energy). Although I'm a bit surprised that there are plants out there that could subsist on IR, after a little digging it does seem doable given the right conditions (ie, the sun emits a lot of IR- although to power a humanoid, I think it'd have to be quite a bit more). UV still seems really sketchy to me for reasons already mentioned, but neh.
Anywho, there's still the problem of where do the Protoss get their minerals from... or you know, anything in their bodies that isn't carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen. They're almost certainly going to need some metals in their body to have the structures necessary to convert the light to energy, not to mention the structures that build those structures (enzymes), etc, etc. This is probably just as big an issue, especially since they don't drink water (it diffuses through their skin!).
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you make some great points, i'll give you that. there's probably a few possibilities for the apparent contradiction by blizzard. it might be that the guy who came up with the answer for that particular Q&A is new to blizzard and not well versed on the original creator's vision of the protoss race, and thus made up a seemingly appropriate answer at the time.
or it's also possible that the world of starcraft does not follow the same trend as the real world does. what i mean by this is that a being with bodily features and functions that seem appropriate, both logically and evolutionary, for carnivorous beings, might not be so. why might this be the case? well, as you quoted, the xel-naga created them for one. they evolved in the telepathic sense, yes, but i think we have to assume that many of their other attributes (opposable thumbs, intelligently capable mind, body structure) were already in such a form at the time of their creation.
so while in the real world it is not beneficial for a plant to move around or have consciousness, for the protoss, it is beneficial to have those said qualities, and also to gain nutrition effortlessly. however, there is certainly a problem that they perhaps "used to" hunt. this implicates that they were once carnivores but now are not, and perhaps, as one user suggested, evolved into these light and moisture absorbing beings.
it seems unlikely that this would have happened because the protoss live for thousands of years and as we know, evolution does not occur during ones life, but over generations. losing the need for a stomach, and gaining the wonderful ability to absorb tangible amounts of energy through one's skin would surely take millions, if not billions of generations. i am not well versed on the timeline of the protoss, but from what i remember some of the protoss heroes would say shit like "i've been around for 9000 years since nearly the start of the protoss race". definitely not enough time for the said evolution to have taken place
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Btw, a much bigger wrongdoing by Blizzard are the deep space monsters. How did they evolve? What do they live on? How in hell do they mate? How can their cells survive traveling through deep space?
Btw, for you that dont know what im talking about, read the zergs story in the manual and youll see that the overmind finds spacemonsters wich are capable of traveling between stars wich he assimilated. Those arent in the game btw, maybe a new zerg capitol ship?
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On November 07 2007 23:46 Tiptup wrote:You're taking all the science out of science fiction. There's no fun left in the genre after that.
Yeah! I do not want warcraft in space!
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On November 08 2007 01:46 Klockan3 wrote: Btw, a much bigger wrongdoing by Blizzard are the deep space monsters. How did they evolve? What do they live on? How in hell do they mate? How can their cells survive traveling through deep space?
Btw, for you that dont know what im talking about, read the zergs story in the manual and youll see that the overmind finds spacemonsters wich are capable of traveling between stars wich he assimilated. Those arent in the game btw, maybe a new zerg capitol ship?
Eh... I find this more forgivable given that the only reason they exist is so there's a reason Zerg can fly through space. I mean, there are bacteria that can survive being space. There's really no justification as to why Protoss need to absorb light.
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On November 08 2007 03:53 zer0das wrote: Eh... I find this more forgivable given that the only reason they exist is so there's a reason Zerg can fly through space. I mean, there are bacteria that can survive being space. Well you got a point that Blizzard didnt have to say that the protoss absorbs sunlight but the Zerg one were necessary to some degree.
However, even if there are bacterias that can survive space i doubt the ability for such organisms to create a whole race capable of reproducing in space and navigating the stars. The existance of such an entity is infinitely more unlikely than a thinking walking plant.
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its impossible for zerg to travel through space ... becasue the overlord speed is fucking slow -_- how the hell an organism is able to travel as fast as a battlecruiser or mothership with psi and nuclear power engine lolz
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On November 08 2007 04:23 lovetramy wrote: its impossible for zerg to travel through space ... becasue the overlord speed is fucking slow -_- how the hell an organism is able to travel as fast as a battlecruiser or mothership with psi and nuclear power engine lolz
Watch the Zerg cinematics from SC, it appears that they use a worm-hole to travel interstellar distances (at least they did at the time of their invasion of Aiur).
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Well, there are conditions where a space faring creature might potentially come about, although it'd be hard to imagine. The most logical explanation I can think of is there was a moon in the same solar system as the Zerg homeworld that could harbor life. Now imagine a species that could fly, but their prey could as well. As such it would be advantageous to fly higher than their prey to dive bomb into it or hide in the sun's brilliance. Their prey tends to fly higher, etc, etc, until after long enough both species can survive in a near vacuum for brief periods of time through their continued adaptation to lower pressures. And eventually with ease.
Now, how they go from a near vacuum (would they even get that far?) to an almost complete one I'm not sure, but I think there'd have to be a very gradual change from a land dwelling species, to flying, to flying higher, to vacuum. This still seems highly unlikely, but this would solve how they acquire food to some extent and come about in the first place. The whole wandering space faring species that Blizzard portrays seems inane, given the sheer distances (even with wormholes) they'd have to travel the chance of them wandering past the Zerg homeworld seems small. And then there's the whole food issue again.
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On November 08 2007 04:27 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2007 04:23 lovetramy wrote: its impossible for zerg to travel through space ... becasue the overlord speed is fucking slow -_- how the hell an organism is able to travel as fast as a battlecruiser or mothership with psi and nuclear power engine lolz Watch the Zerg cinematics from SC, it appears that they use a worm-hole to travel interstellar distances (at least they did at the time of their invasion of Aiur). You mean that same sequence where you see mutalisks using their wings to fly in space?
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On November 08 2007 06:09 jtan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2007 04:27 Jyvblamo wrote:On November 08 2007 04:23 lovetramy wrote: its impossible for zerg to travel through space ... becasue the overlord speed is fucking slow -_- how the hell an organism is able to travel as fast as a battlecruiser or mothership with psi and nuclear power engine lolz Watch the Zerg cinematics from SC, it appears that they use a worm-hole to travel interstellar distances (at least they did at the time of their invasion of Aiur). You mean that same sequence where you see mutalisks using their wings to fly in space?
...Yes. T_T
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And of course there's still the problem of propulsion... maybe they evolved hydrogen scoopers and use fusion. :p
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I love Blizzard's excuse for the Mutas' ability to fly in a vacuum by flapping their wings...
From http://www.battle.net/scc/zerg/units/mutalisk.shtml:
Frankly, the Mutalisk is an enigma. It is not known how they are capable of maneuvering through a vacuum, or even of controlled flight within an atmosphere, but they have been able to stand toe-to-toe (so to speak) against Wraith fighters along the Coreward border worlds.
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Blizzard is a bunch of damned noobs!!
Frankly, the Mutalisk is an enigma. It is not known how they are capable of maneuvering through a vacuum, or even of controlled flight within an atmosphere, but they have been able to stand toe-to-toe (so to speak) against Wraith fighters along the Coreward border worlds.
I've just lost brain cells!!
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On November 08 2007 06:29 Jyvblamo wrote:I love Blizzard's excuse for the Mutas' ability to fly in a vacuum by flapping their wings... From http://www.battle.net/scc/zerg/units/mutalisk.shtml:Show nested quote +Frankly, the Mutalisk is an enigma. It is not known how they are capable of maneuvering through a vacuum, or even of controlled flight within an atmosphere, but they have been able to stand toe-to-toe (so to speak) against Wraith fighters along the Coreward border worlds. omg...
They should hire some creative allround scientist to think up explanations that are at least close to possible.
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On November 08 2007 01:46 Klockan3 wrote: Btw, a much bigger wrongdoing by Blizzard are the deep space monsters. How did they evolve? What do they live on? How in hell do they mate? How can their cells survive traveling through deep space?
Btw, for you that dont know what im talking about, read the zergs story in the manual and youll see that the overmind finds spacemonsters wich are capable of traveling between stars wich he assimilated. Those arent in the game btw, maybe a new zerg capitol ship?
Those are the Overlords, newb.
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A space-faring organism is odd, but I suppose I can give Blizz some credit for not trying to describe how that works.
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
it's kind of funny to see what people will discover with a little extra time on their hands, i used to never care about the history of a game until about a year ago when I actually started paying attention
+ Show Spoiler [Random Off topic comment] +but, blizzard never was very good with their lore, well warcraft lore was pretty good, except for some WoW updates I don't wanna try and change the subject but was anyone active on the blizz forums when they introduced horde paladins and got weeks and weeks of lore fanatics bashing blizzard?
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On November 08 2007 06:38 jtan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2007 06:29 Jyvblamo wrote:I love Blizzard's excuse for the Mutas' ability to fly in a vacuum by flapping their wings... From http://www.battle.net/scc/zerg/units/mutalisk.shtml:Frankly, the Mutalisk is an enigma. It is not known how they are capable of maneuvering through a vacuum, or even of controlled flight within an atmosphere, but they have been able to stand toe-to-toe (so to speak) against Wraith fighters along the Coreward border worlds. omg... They should hire some creative allround scientist to think up explanations that are at least close to possible.
Mutalisks hold a large number of vacuoles filled with Vespene inside their bodies, allowing them to float. For high-speed flight, they rely on an organic ramjet engine. The latter cannot operate while the creature is static, so wings provide initial propulsion. In vacuum, Mutalisks switch to "turbojet" mode, with the no longer needed Vespene providing fuel.
Fuck scientists, they should hire me.
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Mutalisks Current: Does not make sense Solution: Jetpack?
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On November 08 2007 09:22 XCetron wrote: Mutalisks Current: Does not make sense Solution: Jetpack? <3 haha
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On November 08 2007 08:58 Chodorkovskiy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2007 06:38 jtan wrote:On November 08 2007 06:29 Jyvblamo wrote:I love Blizzard's excuse for the Mutas' ability to fly in a vacuum by flapping their wings... From http://www.battle.net/scc/zerg/units/mutalisk.shtml:Frankly, the Mutalisk is an enigma. It is not known how they are capable of maneuvering through a vacuum, or even of controlled flight within an atmosphere, but they have been able to stand toe-to-toe (so to speak) against Wraith fighters along the Coreward border worlds. omg... They should hire some creative allround scientist to think up explanations that are at least close to possible. Mutalisks hold a large number of vacuoles filled with Vespene inside their bodies, allowing them to float. For high-speed flight, they rely on an organic ramjet engine. The latter cannot operate while the creature is static, so wings provide initial propulsion. In vacuum, Mutalisks switch to "turbojet" mode, with the no longer needed Vespene providing fuel. Fuck scientists, they should hire me. makes about as much sense as humans flying through space by constantly farting
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On November 07 2007 16:04 ScvRushGGNoRe wrote: Post too long, didn't read. I hate you.
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On November 08 2007 01:44 Klockan3 wrote: Doubble post, see next page.
I don't see anything on this page
But you all, its good that most of you all are biology people and are knowlegdable of such things, but its just a game. The guy that said all that junk about protoss and how they're made and stuff, he probably BS.ed the whole thing, just thought of high schoool biology classes he took
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Apparently the idea of the Protoss eating light was first inserted into a StarCraft novel called First Born? I don't know since never liked the idea of reading a book based on StarCraft: the sci-fi world in StarCraft was made to enhance a game and not the other way around.
Anyways, I looked up the energy requirements of the brain and, while not huge, they're not exactly small either. If you could maintain deep thought for 24 hours straight, you'd burn more energy than is recommended for the entire human body to eat in a day and the Protoss are all about using lots of mental power, so . . . .
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On November 08 2007 09:44 jtan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2007 08:58 Chodorkovskiy wrote:On November 08 2007 06:38 jtan wrote:On November 08 2007 06:29 Jyvblamo wrote:I love Blizzard's excuse for the Mutas' ability to fly in a vacuum by flapping their wings... From http://www.battle.net/scc/zerg/units/mutalisk.shtml:Frankly, the Mutalisk is an enigma. It is not known how they are capable of maneuvering through a vacuum, or even of controlled flight within an atmosphere, but they have been able to stand toe-to-toe (so to speak) against Wraith fighters along the Coreward border worlds. omg... They should hire some creative allround scientist to think up explanations that are at least close to possible. Mutalisks hold a large number of vacuoles filled with Vespene inside their bodies, allowing them to float. For high-speed flight, they rely on an organic ramjet engine. The latter cannot operate while the creature is static, so wings provide initial propulsion. In vacuum, Mutalisks switch to "turbojet" mode, with the no longer needed Vespene providing fuel. Fuck scientists, they should hire me. makes about as much sense as humans flying through space by constantly farting
How so? Wraiths seem to be doing fine and they're probably made in China...
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I want some Protoss salad!
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thedeadhaji
39470 Posts
Seems like this thread is beginning to reach its end of its tenure.
Btw this may be the only thread I have ever read in the sc2 forum where it wasn't filled with an overabundance of retarded nonsense. Thanks to everyone who participated in this discussion.
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Protoss aren't a product of evolution, though, they're the direct creation of the Xel'Naga. Also, I thought they got their energy from psionic sources, like additional pylons.
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On November 09 2007 07:33 YvoRoK wrote: Protoss aren't a product of evolution, though, they're the direct creation of the Xel'Naga. Also, I thought they got their energy from psionic sources, like additional pylons.
This has been refuted so many times in this thread that it's not even funny.
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On November 08 2007 13:11 Tiptup wrote: Apparently the idea of the Protoss eating light was first inserted into a StarCraft novel called First Born? I don't know since never liked the idea of reading a book based on StarCraft: the sci-fi world in StarCraft was made to enhance a game and not the other way around.
Anyways, I looked up the energy requirements of the brain and, while not huge, they're not exactly small either. If you could maintain deep thought for 24 hours straight, you'd burn more energy than is recommended for the entire human body to eat in a day and the Protoss are all about using lots of mental power, so . . . .
If you watched the Lore Panel video you'd know that Blizzard vets everything for that book, since it's laying the foundations of StarCraft II. Also, Karune repeated it, and he can't do that without the say-so of someone higher up at Blizzard.
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On November 07 2007 11:31 purekorea wrote: If im not mistaken Dark Templar are called that because they strayed from the "normal Protoss" path of life and not cause they cloak.
And the cloaking is because they bend the lightwaves around them not that they are transparent.
IIRC according to the BW manual the Dark Templar "draw their energy from the cold void of the cosmos" or some other such mumbo jumbo. So, DTs apparantly can conjure energy out of plain nothing by some psi-magicks or something, so make what you will of that .
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On November 05 2007 03:44 Jyvblamo wrote:I'm really enjoying all the intelligent discussion this thread is generating. It's quite a breath of fresh air. :D Show nested quote +On November 05 2007 03:38 DrainX wrote: 1. We only know that their skin reflects the light that the human eye can see. They might absorb lots both above and below our spectrum.
2. Its true that of evolutionarily reasons autotrophs are atleast on earth all stationary. However that is irrelevant since the Xel Naga made the Protoss race. Its not the product of evolution. 1. Ah, but keep in mind, as already mentioned before, only light in the visible spectrum is suitable for absorption by biological materials. Why doesn't the human eye (and indeed the eyes of most other animals) see ultraviolet? Because UV radiation is far too damaging to organic molecules. 2. According to all existing SC canon, the Xel-Naga did not create the Protoss race. They maybe have seeded life on Aiur (Though the back-story is ambiguous on this), but they did not directly manipulate the evolution of the Protoss race until after the Protoss had developed into... Show nested quote +"beings [that] were incredibly adaptable to harsh natural conditions and climates. Their strength and speed were unparalleled amongst the other races known to the Xel-Naga. The race had even developed a rudimentary tribal society based upon group-hunting and warrior rule. However, their most distinct aspect was that they communicated with each other through a very complex method of instinctive telepathy, allowing them to operate communally with striking efficiency." Edit: Show nested quote +On November 05 2007 03:39 gg_hertzz wrote: There are plants that aren't green. Flowers for example. Flowering plants do not derive their energy from their flowers, they have green leaves that photosynthesize for them. The different pigments in the flowers are for attracting pollinating animals. Even so, that is beside the point since all photosynthesizing organisms on Earth (correct me if I'm wrong) use light from the visible spectrum to power the light-dependent reactions in photosynthesis.
Not sure if this has been said but many animals can both see deep into the infrared and into the ultraviolet. This is very well documented.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/07/0708_030708_ultravioletmammals.html
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On November 09 2007 07:45 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2007 07:33 YvoRoK wrote: Protoss aren't a product of evolution, though, they're the direct creation of the Xel'Naga. Also, I thought they got their energy from psionic sources, like additional pylons. This has been refuted so many times in this thread that it's not even funny. This has never been refuted. What we know is that protoss were the product of evolution(Maybe even controlled evolution since Xel Naga created Aiur) up until the Xel Naga found them. What the Xel Naga then did to them we know nothing about. We have some clues to the protoss abilitys before meeting the Xel Naga but all other abilitys could have been given to them by the Xel Naga, that doesnt go against anything written anywhere and it can easily explain anything not explainable any other way.
Mutalisk flight is something completely different. Thats something thats physically impossible and cant be explained. I dont understand why everyone is complaining about the protoss skin-absorb thing. Its obviously there and it obviously cant have come by through evolution so the Xel Naga obviously gave them that ability. I just cant see a problem with that explanation and I cant see a better explanation anywhere in this thread.
As for how it actually works? Maybe it is like some people in this thread say, that its completely impossible to gain that amount of energy through some cellular process. First of all I don't believe that. Just because we cant think of a way or haven't seen a way for it to work doesn't mean it cant be done. Even if that was true since their DNA might have been edited by the Xel Naga or their forms changed in some other way they dont have to follow the regular rules of animal species. They could have self-replicating nano robots in their bloodstream that absorb light or something like that. When you look at the technology the Protoss and Xel Naga posses im surprised this is what upsets you.
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Maybe they ate back in the day, and now they dont
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On November 07 2007 23:26 Tiptup wrote: According to wikipedia, about half the energy provided by sunlight is in the visible part of the EM spectrum. The other almost-half of the energy is below that in the infrared part of the spectrum. UV light is only the very small portion that's left over. A few scant UV photons are going to power a physical form as impressive as a Protoss? We generally don't bother with solar panels that collect energy in UV range because there simply isn't enough energy there to justify the expense. Plants know where it's at.
To emit additional, high energy light, Aiur's star would have to be much hotter and would probably start killing off most life forms on Aiur's surface (I would guess). That's even assuming the Protoss can absorb UV light in the first place, which is so remote that it defeats Blizzard specifying that the Protoss can live off sunlight in the first place.
Also, I'm no expert on biology, chemistry and certainly not biochemistry, but "higher" life forms tend to require far more energy in comparison to "lower" life forms. They're more complex and are greater concentrations of matter and energy. Higher life forms live by consuming lower life forms. This leaves human beings with a very large energy requirements in comparison to the physical acts we perform. Protoss, on the other hand, would be even more complex considering their additional functions (like psionics and light absorption) as well as their greater intelligence, durability, strength, speed. For me to believe that it can survive on a small fraction of what a human survives upon doesn't make sense to me.
You are making far too many assumptions. Realise that this is fantasy, so I can easily make up infintely many excuses to counter any points you or others make (i can go as far as saying they're living in a parallel universe where planck's ,h,constant is equal to 1 and the speed of light c, varies with wavelength)
Firstly, our earth blocks most of the harmful UV light (thankfully) you seem to assume Aiur does the same? Also UV light has more energy, so i can say that less uv light ~ same energy as std visible light with higher photon density
Secondly, you cant just say that 'complexity' requires a lot of energy. What if the protoss have minds and thoughts so efficient that they require very little energy to operate at all? They are perceived to be a very wise race after all. I mean we see this here today where althetes found new physical ways inwhich to run which conserve little energy (e.g. a runner running at his own resonant frequency will waste least energy possible, but it takes a lot of training to be able to get your heart to beat at this specific frequency)
I really feel that this argument (although interesting it being pointed out in the first place) is getting no where. Everyone here is merely showing off their knowledge in physics, chemistry, biologiy and the like. I thought TL was a forum with pro-gamers that worry about things like micro, macro, pro stratergies, not talk about geekery stuff that fat ugly nerds ask the blizzard e.g, (blizzcon 07 - "will starcraft 2 be available in wide screen?" (NO SHIT YOU FUCKING FAT UGLY GEEK- seriously what kind of a question was that), instead of asking them more useful questions like in the New Ideas, Units SC2 forum here.
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On November 20 2007 17:27 liosama wrote: I really feel that this argument (although interesting it being pointed out in the first place) is getting no where.
I don't think it was actually meant to get anywhere. StarCraft is science fiction and not pure-fantasy fiction, that simply means that it's based upon our current scientific knowledge to propose fictional ideas in a way that is connected to our universe in some way. The fun nature of that process (and Blizzard's ignorance) is all this conversation was about as far as I could tell. If that offended your sensibilities then I don't see how that would be our fault. Also, I don't see why you're even discussing the various points of this thread yourself if you can't even find it fun.
Anyways, while the functioning of a Mutalisk's wings in a vacuum is a very implausible thing to propose based on anything we currently know, I believe that science fiction has room for notions that are left mysterious (like that) since science is as much about exploration (and finding new mysteries) as it is about explaining the things we have discovered. In that sense, Mutalisk wings introduce a science fiction mystery that at least isn't contradicted by anything we know. Science can accept things it doesn't understand. However, saying that the Protoss absorb light to survive was an attempt to explain how the Protoss eat, but it creates far more questions than it tries to answer and that's ridiculous.
Sure, I can bend over backwards in all sorts of ways to pretend the Protoss live off sunlight, but I see no reason why I should want to. Science fiction is an art form and Blizzard did a crappy job with this concept if you ask me. I preferred the Protoss when the specifics surrounding their metabolism were left a mystery. So sue me.
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Well who says it has to be visible light they take up? From what i've read they go out on the night and gather the so called cosmic radiation. This cosmic radiation is obviously not light from their own sun since they can't get that while it is nighttime. Also about that their plant life on Aiur. Aiur is extremely far from earth and to think that life could not have evolved different on Aiur than on earth is pretty weird and close-minded. The Xel'naga might have found them when they where a predatory race but changed them to feed upon the so called cosmic radiation instead. They might have done this since the Xel'naga never kills anyone they did not want their legacy upon this world to be killers but instead rather gain life energy from something more friendly. This is of course an theory and all evidence i have is that the Xel'naga never ever killed something living. They did not even kill the Voice in the dark but they did encase him within a kind of jail. This is alsy probably why the Zerg was able to destroy so many of them. The Xel'naga had extreme power that they could without effort have killed the Zerg (Referring to the Shakuras Xel'naga temple that with little effort purified the planet from the Zerg invaders.) but they did not since they respected life more than their own survival.
I hope i was not confusing with what i said.
User was warned for this post
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On November 05 2007 02:00 Jyvblamo wrote:In a recent SC2 Blizzard Q&A batch, there was an interesting point raised on the subject of how the Protoss obtain their nourishment. Here's the direct quote:Show nested quote + 5. What do the Protoss eat? (Where do they get energy and mass?) (starcraftcz.com) Protoss gain nutrition from sunlight, or at a pinch, moonlight (which is just reflected sunlight anyway) by absorbing through their skins. They can go for extended periods without absorbing sunlight. What little moisture they need is also absorbed through their skin. This interesting new fact raises several problems (however hypothetical) about Protoss physiology. By having Protoss obtaining their energy from the sun, we can assume that they mean the Protoss absorb energy from photons on the molecular level, and convert that electromagnetic radiation energy into chemical energy stored in chemical bonds which they later break to release the stored energy. A key consequence of absorbing energy from light is that you change the wavelength of the reflected light, resulting in a change in the colour of the reflected light. In photosynthetic organisms on Earth, the dominant pigment used to absorb energy from light is chlorophyll, which absorbs most wavelengths of visible light except green, resulting in a green colour. However, it seems impossible for this mechanism to work since Protoss skin is pale-ish, meaning that they reflect nearly all wavelengths of light and do not absorb substantial amounts of energy from light. Also, another incongruous issue raised by making Protoss photosynthetic is that it means that they are autotrophs; organisms that derive energy directly from the abiotic environment and not from other organisms. Why is this a problem? Well, for one thing, autotrophs are subject to different evolutionary pressures than herotrophs (On Earth, heterotrophs are just about everything except for chemoautotrophic archaebacteria {or whatever their name is nowadays} and photosynthetic organisms). Autotrophs tend to be non-motile because they do not need to move around to find sources of energy (it's always shining down upon them or streaming out of undersea vents), and they certainly don't have to hunt down their meal (except for certain insectivore plants, but I digress...). Plants on our world do not move around or think or whatever because natural selection does not favor autotrophs that do so. So, evolutionarily speaking, it does not make sense to have an autotrophic Protoss. All the traits of the Protoss suggest a predatory ancestry, like their communal hierarchy, their manipulative hands, their bipedal stance, etc. On the other hand, there are already photosynthetic organisms on Aiur. The jungles are full of green 'plants' that quite resemble our own lethargic and stationary plants on Earth. Those plants have no use for pale skin, hands, brains, psionic storms, and so on. Even the lore of the Starcraft universe contradicts the idea that Protoss could be autotrophic. Show nested quote + Despairing at last, the Xel-Naga focused their frustrated efforts on the most promising of their engineered worlds. Aiur, a massive jungle-world on the galaxy’s fringe, had borne a race of highly advanced beings.
These beings were incredibly adaptable to harsh natural conditions and climates. Their strength and speed were unparalleled amongst the other races known to the Xel-Naga. The race had even developed a rudimentary tribal society based upon group-hunting and warrior rule. However, their most distinct aspect was that they communicated with each other through a very complex method of instinctive telepathy, allowing them to operate communally with striking efficiency. The Xel-Naga were pleased with the progress of their latest creation and conceded that the new race was the first of all their experiments to evolve beyond the feral constraints of baser life-forms. To signify their ascension in the galactic order, the Xel-Naga gave the new race the name of Protoss, or the First Born. The early Protoss lived in harmony and seclusion upon the world of Aiur for hundreds of generations, never knowing of the Xel-Naga who watched over them from afar.
There you have it, right from the original grail of SC's back-story itself. The Protoss were hunters, not some plant or whatever. So, anyways, I hope that my long boring post will generate some discussion, and hopefully all the replies won't be "lol iz just a game blimey!1". + Show Spoiler + Note: Yes, I'm probably reading too deep into this, but hey that's the kind of stuff I like: totally useless and tangential. :3 Plus, the idea of the Protoss being autotrophs bugs the hell out of me. C'mon, plants are lame.
Note#2: Damn TL.Net screws up my formatting.
Note#3: I don't pretend to know everything about biology or xenobiology (is that even a field?), but I'm just basing what I've written on what I've read in books and what not.
There are some big problems in your assumptions, first , you try to compare protoss physiology with what you know or what is "known" , second, light isn't the only source of energy , pretty much any electromagnetic radiation can be a source of energy, third, they can "bend" light (dark templars for example - this is tough), the only thing (that we know so far) that's able to do so is a black hole. All in all, as far as I remember for SC lore, protoss (disregarding Xel'Naga) are the most evolved and advanced entities to ever roam the universe, advanced enough to use any form of energy as sustenance, so the answer to "what do they eat" is ENERGY (in whatever form or shape it's presented)
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This thread is 8 years old guys.
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Yeah, tho, "the question" is ageless Edit: ty for pointing it out, who the hell expects a thread in General revived after 8 years ?!
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36621 Posts
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On June 25 2015 01:57 Seeker wrote: WTF with this necro?
Well if he's genuinely curious, better to necro an old thread than start a new one eh seeker?
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Haha awesome. I've never seen this thread befor. Very interesting.
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Russian Federation421 Posts
Judging by the title, I thought it was an awful joke that all Protoss players are gay. I'm pleasantly surprised.
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Another epic bump. :D An oldie but a goodie!
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How do mutalisks breathe in space?
How do you nydus wurm from your base to a floating island?
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