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They should include both the reaver and the Collosus in the robotics because they are really interesting to use , but should add something to the Terran and zerg of course .
And for the mediavac why don't they include both the medics and an upgrade to the dropship to heal too .... It seems a bit stupid to want just a medic and you have to tech to a starport for the mediavac .
Jackal seems ok thought knowing that they included mines to the Nomad . You don't know how Jackal can be microed so it might turn out better then the vultures or atleast as fun .
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Medivac is a stupid idea and I don't understand why people are being too nice about it. It should be dropped completely because it demonstrates just again the the ignorance and bliss of the new developement team behind SC2.
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I whole heartily agree. I was thinking the same thing. With the reaver or spider mines there is that little bit of chance involved. It is not a sure bet, and that is what makes excitement. I'm sure could argue how with that "luck" you can trump skill, but if you open up yourself for that attack its your own fault. Besides, there is the skill of running spider mines into your opponent and placement/pickup of reavers.
The reaver is like the home run of baseball or hail mary pass of american football. It simply must be put back in the game. We will all lose a little something if it isn't.
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I don't get why everyone is yelling and screaming about the medivac. Why don't we do this: Put medics back into the game, and allow medics to heal from the drop ships too? That way, you can heal your marines without fear of getting your dropship killed, but you can still use your medics with reapers since your medics in the dropship can heal them even if they go over cliffs.
Colossus looks cool and has a cool attack. But to me, it seems like an attack-move unit. Ok fine. Not an attack-move unit. An attack-hold unit. Nothing special about that.
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I'd be so happy if they brought back the dark archon
Or at least put mind control on some other caster.
Mind control is the best spell EVAR
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Sweden33719 Posts
So, from WWI it seems like the medivac performed pretty well as a medic replacement. Not really heard any complaints at all and the new units seem to lead to an exciting game.
Heard some complaints about the colossus (about it being boring to micro) and the jackal. Would be very interesting to hear some more about these two units from anyone who went.
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On July 05 2008 22:15 FrozenArbiter wrote: So, from WWI it seems like the medivac performed pretty well as a medic replacement. Not really heard any complaints at all and the new units seem to lead to an exciting game.
Heard some complaints about the colossus (about it being boring to micro) and the jackal. Would be very interesting to hear some more about these two units from anyone who went.
I've also read bad things about the Reaper... I'm not sure how it could be improved either, unless you gave reapers the firebat attack and then bring vultures back in place of jackals. Actually, that sounds like a pretty good way to fix those issues to me.
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Wait until you see the game to say if its gonna be exciting or not. Hell, medics weren't even in until the expansion. There are also many elements being added such as the gas mechanics, more cliff use, yellow crystals, zerg creep usage, Queen, mothership, thor rebuilding, forcefield, and anti gravity. And, as far as I know the templars still have psi storm and the terrans still haves mines so it doesn't really seem like too much is being lost or not added for what is lost.
As far as starcraft 2 in general, I do think the terrans are somewhat on the losing edge in terms of castable things and such, but thats understandable in differentiating the races. The Protoss units should cast the most using their higher technology, the terran being the "ground and pound" type should mostly just have big guns, and the zerg being a large, fast force with elements added to make it seem more menacing and insect like(the Queen and the enhancements to creep).
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Sweden33719 Posts
On July 05 2008 22:43 anotak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2008 22:15 FrozenArbiter wrote: So, from WWI it seems like the medivac performed pretty well as a medic replacement. Not really heard any complaints at all and the new units seem to lead to an exciting game.
Heard some complaints about the colossus (about it being boring to micro) and the jackal. Would be very interesting to hear some more about these two units from anyone who went.
I've also read bad things about the Reaper... I'm not sure how it could be improved either, unless you gave reapers the firebat attack and then bring vultures back in place of jackals. Actually, that sounds like a pretty good way to fix those issues to me. I thought so too, before, but I'm not sure anymore cause I can kind of see the point in trying to replace as many units as possible to create new interesting combinations etc. Just needs to make sure the unit is as interesting as what's being replaced.
But yeah I've also heard the reaper was pretty useless which is sad, I like that unit
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On July 06 2008 01:27 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2008 22:43 anotak wrote:On July 05 2008 22:15 FrozenArbiter wrote: So, from WWI it seems like the medivac performed pretty well as a medic replacement. Not really heard any complaints at all and the new units seem to lead to an exciting game.
Heard some complaints about the colossus (about it being boring to micro) and the jackal. Would be very interesting to hear some more about these two units from anyone who went.
I've also read bad things about the Reaper... I'm not sure how it could be improved either, unless you gave reapers the firebat attack and then bring vultures back in place of jackals. Actually, that sounds like a pretty good way to fix those issues to me. I thought so too, before, but I'm not sure anymore cause I can kind of see the point in trying to replace as many units as possible to create new interesting combinations etc. Just needs to make sure the unit is as interesting as what's being replaced. But yeah I've also heard the reaper was pretty useless which is sad, I like that unit Well, the issue is that the Reaper is basically a marine. Except it can jump cliffs and does less damage. It's like the Valkyrie. A Goliath that can fly but it's less cost-effective. (At least this is what I've been told in IRC by people that were at WWI). They're in overlapping roles.
And the Jackal isn't like what I imagined, it's this weird firebat/vulture hybrid. Which makes about as much sense as a giving SCVs yamato. I imagined it being a Vulture with a very lurker-like longer range and AOE style, nearly instant attack. Instead it's got the firebat flames except they reach the target slower. And patrol micro is impossible. And it doesn't have spidermines.
So to me, giving the Reaps the Firebat attack fixes the problems with the reaper. As a ranged instant-hit ranged weapon harass / special-ish unit it's overlapping with the Ghost and Marine at the moment. Or maybe a rocket-launcher toting Reaper would be good (but if it's an AOE, watch out for overlap with the Marauder). Or perhaps some more unique energy weapon of some kind, like the wraith/bc laser. To be honest dual pistols just looks and sounds ridiculous anyway. Once you have the different weapon, that helps fit its own role more. Currently the only thing reapers are better than marines at as I understand correctly is fighting vs. lings. Well, a firebat attack would make this still be the case.
For example: With an attack like the wraith laser (probably buffed a little bit), with a similar rate of fire, unit dancing would be much more possible, allowing that mobility to be taken advantage of. With damage concentrated into shorter bursts they'd be more useful as harass units as well. With whatever damage bonus is appropriate to make them better against immortals, workers, lings, zealots, hts, dts, hydras, marines, infestors, ghosts and other reapers they'd be much more useful than before.
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Sweden33719 Posts
To clarify, I'm all for reaper-> flamethrower, I was talking about rolling back the jackal into the vulture.
I think I'd rather see something new in that case (don't like the jackal either tho, it seems really weird to revert to wheels after having hoverbikes).
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On July 06 2008 02:11 anotak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2008 01:27 FrozenArbiter wrote:On July 05 2008 22:43 anotak wrote:On July 05 2008 22:15 FrozenArbiter wrote: So, from WWI it seems like the medivac performed pretty well as a medic replacement. Not really heard any complaints at all and the new units seem to lead to an exciting game.
Heard some complaints about the colossus (about it being boring to micro) and the jackal. Would be very interesting to hear some more about these two units from anyone who went.
I've also read bad things about the Reaper... I'm not sure how it could be improved either, unless you gave reapers the firebat attack and then bring vultures back in place of jackals. Actually, that sounds like a pretty good way to fix those issues to me. I thought so too, before, but I'm not sure anymore cause I can kind of see the point in trying to replace as many units as possible to create new interesting combinations etc. Just needs to make sure the unit is as interesting as what's being replaced. But yeah I've also heard the reaper was pretty useless which is sad, I like that unit Well, the issue is that the Reaper is basically a marine. Except it can jump cliffs and does less damage. It's like the Valkyrie. A Goliath that can fly but it's less cost-effective. (At least this is what I've been told in IRC by people that were at WWI). They're in overlapping roles. And the Jackal isn't like what I imagined, it's this weird firebat/vulture hybrid. Which makes about as much sense as a giving SCVs yamato. I imagined it being a Vulture with a very lurker-like longer range and AOE style, nearly instant attack. Instead it's got the firebat flames except they reach the target slower. And patrol micro is impossible. And it doesn't have spidermines.
So now instead of just planting mines, they have to be microed more to do the same (and possibly even more) damage. And opponent isn't blocked in his base before he gets any detection.
So to me, giving the Reaps the Firebat attack fixes the problems with the reaper. As a ranged instant-hit ranged weapon harass / special-ish unit it's overlapping with the Ghost and Marine at the moment. Or maybe a rocket-launcher toting Reaper would be good (but if it's an AOE, watch out for overlap with the Marauder). Or perhaps some more unique energy weapon of some kind, like the wraith/bc laser. To be honest dual pistols just looks and sounds ridiculous anyway. Once you have the different weapon, that helps fit its own role more. Currently the only thing reapers are better than marines at as I understand correctly is fighting vs. lings. Well, a firebat attack would make this still be the case.
For example: With an attack like the wraith laser (probably buffed a little bit), with a similar rate of fire, unit dancing would be much more possible, allowing that mobility to be taken advantage of. With damage concentrated into shorter bursts they'd be more useful as harass units as well. With whatever damage bonus is appropriate to make them better against immortals, workers, lings, zealots, hts, dts, hydras, marines, infestors, ghosts and other reapers they'd be much more useful than before.
As I don't like Reaper's weapon and his current place in tech tree, can't charges (exploding faster?) do as AoE damage? Their cooldown is 30seconds so it's not like Reaper is one attack unit as it dies to anything, when using this pistols only.
What's more if this description is true, it would be great too see mines / charges being attached to anything, from workers to Ultras/Colossi/Thors ... made me remember Luke detonating robots during battle on the ice planet in Star Wars and Diego doing similar thing to bug in Starship Troopers x)
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pardon me, but i would rather go, bring back macro to sc2
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Sweden33719 Posts
Well yes, but they are already aware of the macro problem and seem to be working on it.
I'm not even totally sure the things I mentioned in here are problems at all but worth thinking about.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Something I started thinking about, at random, today was those classic games (mostly PvP and PvT) where both players are out of minerals and units and it's just like a couple of scvs / vultures vs a reaver with a limited number of scarabs.
If they don't bring back the reaver, I would love for the ammo-that-costs-resources concept to be brought back in some other form.
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On July 21 2008 08:17 FrozenArbiter wrote: Something I started thinking about, at random, today was those classic games (mostly PvP and PvT) where both players are out of minerals and units and it's just like a couple of scvs / vultures vs a reaver with a limited number of scarabs.
If they don't bring back the reaver, I would love for the ammo-that-costs-resources concept to be brought back in some other form.
What about making Mothership spells cost resources and energy boost time of "preparing" the spells?
For example preparing Time Bomb would last 100seconds and cost some amount of resources but could fastened down to 50seconds by spending 50-100 energy?
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You realize the only reason the Reaver is the most exciting unit to watch is because it's the only unit whose attack fails randomly, right? It's the same reason the World Series of Poker is exciting... the luck factor.
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The attack of the reaver is definitely far more interesting than collosus, main reason I support it. If collosus launched scarabs though, that'd be cool too!
I just wish so many units didnt have the same attack in SC2. SC1's attacks seemed much more inspired.
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On July 06 2008 07:13 FrozenArbiter wrote: To clarify, I'm all for reaper-> flamethrower, I was talking about rolling back the jackal into the vulture.
I think I'd rather see something new in that case (don't like the jackal either tho, it seems really weird to revert to wheels after having hoverbikes).
Wheels are so C&C, Dune. Maybe not the vulture but some kind of landspeeder.
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