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Thesis to Increase Macro: Part 3 Auxiliary Building Mechanics
Thesis to Increase Macro Part 1: Manual Mining http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78498 Thesis to Increase Macro Part 2: Supply http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78501 Thesis to Increase Macro Part 3: Auxiliary Buildings http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78657 Thesis to Increase Macro Part 4: Production Buildings http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=79926 Thesis to Increase Macro Part 5: Gas http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82730 Contact at ArcherofAiur@gmail.com
I am really excited to share these thoughts with you today.
So I’ve been churning over an image of an object in my head since I started thinking about increasing macro and how to make the player fall in love with his base again. This image is kind of strange and I originally felt it was too silly to propose as a model for how starcraft2 bases should work. However, the more I dwell on it the more I realize that this object represents the dual goals of interactivity and fun that I so desperately want to inject into base design. You guys ready for this? Here is what I think SC2 base design should seek to mimic: http://www.tjskids.com/images/products/safe_bouncer45616.jpg
Bear with me. So what is it about the “tjskids safe bouncer” that I think starcraft 2 game design could take a cue from? To answer that lets try and break down the components that make up this device. Let us examine why these different components function as they do and for what end.
First let us understand the most important component. The controller. See that thing in the middle. Yup, that’s the controller. He’s so cute but more importantly he’s the guy in charge of everything that is happening around him. The controller is positioned in the center of the apparatus to facilitate his interactions with the other components. A myriad of possibilities await his influence. Now the controller has a huge drawback. He is the only component of the system that is human and as such he is subject to human faults and limitations. One of his biggest limitations is attention. Unfortunately, he cannot focus on everything at once. He can focus on that flower thing or oh maybe the birdie or oh how bout that seesaw, that looks interesting. In essence this lil tike is subject to the same restrictions that govern the starcraft player. He cannot be everywhere at once (though the good players come close). His attention in the form of the main camera window and his mouse cursor can only concentrate on one component at a time. Therefore, the most fundamental decision that the controller must make is what to focus on and when. That concept is really important so I am going to restate it, not because I think you guys don’t know it but because I think all of us don’t completely understand it.
In an RTS the most important decision you make is what to focus on and when.
Ok now let us deal with all the other components. The toys around the controller represent the various options a player is allowed to do at his base. The controller must interact with each component in its own unique way. You spin that green guy but you have to push that car. Each object gives a different reaction when the controller interacts with them. A moo sound goes off when he pulls that lever but when he pushes the button the house sings mary had a little lamb. The controller discovers each components identity and his relationship with it. He looks at one of the rings on the hoop thing and notices that it is away from its counterpart. He figures out how to get both rings on the same side by flipping one ring over the top. He has now gained the ability to control the configuration of rings on the hoop component. He has approached a system, determined how it works and through this acquired command over the component. It has become a tool or extension which he can influence to whatever means he so desires.
When the controller interacts with the other components he is rewarded on several levels. The most basic levels are those of visual and auditory stimulation. Flashing lights, whirling objects and whistling sounds. These all sound so silly but if you take a look at your videogames I think you would be surprised by just how much of your enjoyment is influenced by these factors. There is also satisfaction that occurs on a much more profound level. While the beeping lights and explosions stimulate your lower brain this satisfaction works on the higher echelons. This is the satisfaction a person receives from setting and achieving goals. I intend to devote a whole other essay to the concept of “fun”. Until then let me just stress that I believe the most essential component of “fun” in videogames is intrinsically tied to achieving goals.
FOCUS STATEMENT Ok so my focus for this section will be to getting the player to identify, think about and interact with all those buildings in his base. As I mentioned before you can think of this section as "Learning to Love Your Buildings". You see back in the early days of RTS most buildings did one of two things: make things or allow you to make things. Since then each generation of RTS games has continuted to increase the emphasis of units at the detriment of buildings. The result is a huge disparity of interest to the point where players now view the base as a vestigial apparatus. At present, the base exists only by necessity for certain game pacing and developmental elements. To return to the base is viewed as a chore, a burden, a distraction from the “real game”. This is wrong. With the addition of automated features like automine and MBS your base is now perceived to be little more then a source for new units. I cannot stress how much of an incredible waste this is. Buildings are a source of untapped design space with such enormous potential. Players are required to construct two parts of their war machine and then only use one of them? It truly baffles me how little thought and care has gone into building design. We are going to change that today. One of my goals to remedy this is to get players excited about their buildings again. So the first question I needed to answer was “well what is so great about units?” I have observed two reasons for why this may be. 1) Units have such character. Take a look at how many SC2 suggestions are made about new cool units and how many are made about buildings. Players are conditioned to think of units as doing all the cool things in a RTS and buildings as sitting there like oh so many bricks. I believe this is because game designers have not spent sufficient time developing buildings as a dynamic and exciting component of your war machine.
2) Units help you win games. They are the front line players and so they are naturally associated with turning the tide of battle. No one ever thanks that mineral patch that provided the metal to make the siege tanks that splattered those reavers. No it's the siege tank and the siege tank alone that takes credit for your victory. This also does not have to be. I will propose building mechanics that allow players who focus on their base to gain battlefield advantage. You will still need units and we are defiantly not going for C&C "I win buttons" but we will defiantly reward players who use there units and buildings in unison to claim victory. Therefore my current approach is to have support buildings reflect the incredible character of the units they produce or are associated with. Buildings will express this character through abilities and traits that help give battlefield advantage.
Please note that the protoss mechanic I am about to introduce is a revision of the psi focusing mechanic I proposed as part of my supply essay. Nicol Bolas (BlizzForums ) brought it to my attention that speeding up the construction of one building becomes less effective as the game progresses and the players base production increases. This caused me to think of a way to have a greater impact through out the games duration. I stumbled upon the idea of having benefits for more pylons, from there I jumped to using cooldowns on pylons to accomplish several things (bypass automation, introduce strategic placement and use of pylons). More and more ideas started falling into place until the complete picture hit me. So once again Id like to thank everyone who responds constructively to my ideas. This is in no way a one man show. To facilitate effective feedback and ensure that I take your responses into consideration I would appreciate it if you structured your replies in the following format. Initial Impressions Here you write your take on the material. Perceived Problems Here you point out potential complications. Suggested Solutions Here you offer ways to alleviate said complications.
Protoss Auxiliary Buildings Mechanic: Psi Focusing 2.0
Abstract
It is here proposed that the protoss be endowed with an ability to “focus” psi from their nexus into buildings via a chain of pylons. Once focused upon buildings would be able to activate abilities to gain battlefield advantage.
How It Works
A protoss player would select the nexus. He would initiate the focusing action and then click a pylon in range. Once the pylon is selected a ray/beam/energy chain of psi would shoot from the crystal on top of the nexus (Reference: http://www.starcraft2.com/screenshot.xml?s=11 ) to the crystal in the pylon. The player would then select the next pylon (also in psi range) and a beam of energy would now link the nexus, pylon 1 and pylon 2, etc. The player would continue creating this psi pathway until he clicked on a building. The beam of energy would now connect this building to the nexus through a chain of pylons. At this point the nexus is channeling psi through the sequence of focusing pylons and into the building. The building can now use a special ability characteristic of its role in the war machine.
The range of connecting energy beams would be limited to the radius of psi generated by pylons. Pylons would be given energy and as long as the pylon participated in the focusing chain that energy would diminish. This cost would be spread out among all pylons participating in the chain. Therefore if you have more pylons in a chain each individual pylon loses energy at a slower rate then if one pylon bore the grunt of the workload. When all energy was drained from a pylon it would lose the ability to contribute to the focusing chain. Any loss of function of a pylon in the focusing chain would break the entire chain. Energy would replenish after time in unfocusing pylons. The inner hue of the pylon can be used as a visual indicator of the pylons energy with full pylons displaying a healthy blue and empty pylons appearing clear.
Auxiliary Buildings and Abilities
For the purposes of this discussion the primary pylon will be defined as the pylon directly connected to the nexus. The secondary pylon will be the pylon directly connected to the primary pylon. The terminal pylon will be the pylon directly connected to the building being focused on. Since I am not privy to the protoss buildings in the current build of starcraft 2 I will instead show how focusing can be used on protoss buildings from the original starcraft. Oh and yes I know shield battery and observatory are out and I know there is now a dark templar equivalent of the templar archive that would be a more suitable home for the mechanic but play along anyway. Try and remember that this is a prototype meant to illustrate how psi focusing mechanics work. You are not going to see the final version of psi focusing till you pay for it at EB Games ;-) (Whoever said I was pretentious was dead right.)
Forge: Recharge Shielding Psi Field
How it works: I am proposing that Forge be given the shield battery “recharge shields” ability. Upon focusing on the forge all units in the terminal pylons psi field would be subject to shield recharging. Recharging would be dependent upon available energy reserves contained within the forge itself.
Rational for Building Character (No, not that kind of building character… Building Character!): The Forge is the source of protoss shield upgrades (at least for ground units). On a figurative level a forge is a place for the construction and repair of arms and armor. This ability emphasizes the Forge’s role in restoring protoss armament to full capacity.
Cybernetics Core: Accelerate Research
How it works: This is a universal effect. When a Cybernetics Core is focused upon all upgrades in all protoss buildings are accelerated slightly. Sounds simple right? Balancing won’t be.
Rational for Building Character: Housed within the Cybernetics Core are the arcane technologies that bind fallen warriors to cold mechanical shells. This process calls for mammoth crystal circuits to facilitate essence translation. When the Cybernetics Core is focused upon a conduit is established between these crystal circuits, the nexus and the entirety of the protoss base. These crystal circuits can now lend their tremendous calculating power to research endeavors.
Citadel of Adun: Replenish Pylon Energy
How it works: You can think of this ability as the reverse of normal focusing. As a pylon chain focuses on this building the energy levels of the participating pylons are restored rather then depleted. The amount of energy replenished is spread out so the more pylons you have in the chain the less energy each individual pylon receives. Desperate to use a focusing ability but all your pylons are on empty? Hook one pylon up to the Citadel and in a short while you should have some working energy to execute that vital ability. Want to focus on micro for a while? Hook all your pylons in a chain up to the Citadel and forget about it. When you return they should be at full capacity.
Rational for Building Character: The Citadel of Adun is a center for meditation on the Khala. Within its hallowed walls protoss warriors attain the highest levels of this sacred practice. The Khala is the body of cultural, religious and phylisophical teachings that allow the protoss to access the psionic matrix that binds them. When the Citadel of Adun is focused upon psi can be funneled directly from the greatest of templar minds back into the pylon lattice.
Robotics Support Bay: Energize Probes
How it works: A protoss player must first focus on a Robotics Support Bay. The Robotics Support Bay would now host a large ball of pure psionic energy within its center. A protoss player would select a batch of probes and move them in contact with the focused Robotics Support Bay. Upon contact these probes would become energized. The protoss player could continue to energize probes until the energy levels of the Robotics Support Bay were drained at which point the ball of psionic energy would fizzle out. Probes that had been energized would move and harvest minerals at a faster rate. The probes would have a blue aura to visually indicate their increased efficiency. This would be a temporary effect. It would wear off after a time period at which point the energy levels of the Robotics Support Bay should have recovered sufficiently to allow for a new round of workers to be energized. I would advise that this ability be researchable. By requiring researching the protoss player must commit time and resources into the Robotics Support Bay for increased resource output at a later point in time.
Rational for Building Character: The Robotics Support Bay provides, well support for robotics. It is here that the non-organic tools of the protoss armada are constructed and maintained. The bay provides the necessary interface for channeling psi directly into the soulless mechanisms of the diligent probe. This psi allows for extraordinary power currents and results in increased productivity. However, the energy of psi can only be properly maintained by a sentient being. After a time period the probe’s psionic energy will dissipate returning the probe to normal efficiency.
Templar Archives: Cloaking Psi Field
How it works: By focusing on the Templar Archives the protoss player can conceal all buildings (or maybe units) in the terminal pylon’s psi field. Now is a good time to address balance concerns for those of you who haven’t already gone to compose responses telling me this is imba. Please note that there are several levels on which this ability can be balanced. It can be balanced by requiring a larger amount of energy drain from pylons. Alternatively it can be balanced through a mineral and/or gas cost when the player initiates the ability. A (non energy related) cool down could be attached to this ability if necessary. In my very, very…very humble opinion I believe that it should be possible to balance this ability by draining energy levels tied to the Templar Archives. I am afraid that without the capacity to playtest this ability (in the current starcraft2 build) my opinion is the best that I can offer.
Rational for Building Character: The Templar Archives is the coven of the Dark Ones. Hidden within its shadowy recesses they continue to practice their abominable tradition. By enacting what must surely be primitive and deplorable rituals they have devised a way to shroud entire psi fields in mystery. I would highly advise the Conclave to investigate this matter with the utmost of urgency and expedience.
Observatory: Increase Observer Sight Range
How it works: When this focused building’s ability is activated the sight range (and detection capabilities) of observers is significantly increased. This is a universal effect. It applies to all observers on the map. I have included this ability to demonstrate how support buildings can provide “upgrades” for as long as they are focused. This presents protoss players with an important decision, when to “upgrade” their observers and when the focusing mechanic would be better applied else where. I would be eager to see how competitive starcraft players dealt with this option. One consideration that must be taken into account in future development of this ability is visual clarity so that passive observers can easily comprehend when the player has “upgraded” his observers. This consideration applies equally to all other aspects of the psi focusing mechanic.
Rational for Building Character: An observatory is a site from which the corners of the universe are uncovered. This ability allows the progeny of this structure to more effectively record and analyze war zone activities.
Fleet Beacon: Rapid Stargate Construction Psi Field
How it works: When a protoss player focuses on a Fleet Beacon the psi field of the terminal pylon is magnified. The construction of Stargates in the magnified psi field is accelerated. To clarify, this ability is specific only for the construction of Stargates.
Rational for Building Character: The Fleet Beacon strengthens the psi energies needed to warp in the largest elements of the protoss war fleet. By focusing psi through the Fleet Beacon’s enormous Khaydarin orb the local psionic matrix can also be magnified. This allows warp rifts in the immediate psi field to resolve at a more rapid pace. Note: This ability was originally attributed to the Cybernetics Core and Accelerated Gateways. I transferred the ability to the Stargate because of crowding issues. With air units you do not have to worry about units being boxed in.
Arbiter Tribunal: Recall Forces
How it works: Focusing on the Arbiter Tribunal allows protoss players to sever the very ties that bind space and time. When this ability is activated a rift can be created over any protoss forces teleporting them back to the Arbiter Tribunal. This ability would drain a significant amount of the Arbiter Tribunal’s energy. These energies would need to be recovered before subsequent rifts could be opened. Please note that recalling forces is a particularly attractive way to increase macro since it encourages players to return to their base in order to send troops back into battle.
Rational for Building Character: Inconceivable artifices accessible only to the highest echelon of protoss society allow for the most fundamental of universal laws to be broken. By providing psi focus these technologies can reach across continents, planets and the stars themselves. In this way the Judicator’s fulfill their sacred vow that no First Born, no matter how far away, is ever beyond salvation.
Gameplay Example
Lil Billy is playing protoss in starcraft 2. For most of the early game, Lil Billy is creating and maintaining focusing pathways on the Cybernetics Core for speeding up upgrades. Occasionally, when under attack he is constructing pathways to his forge to recharge defender’s shields. In the middle game, Lil Billy gains the ability to recharge his pylon’s energy levels at a much faster pace with the Citadel of Adun. He is now alternating between energizing his probes for increased mineral yield and recharging his pylons. He continues to intersperse the accelerate research and recharge shield abilities when appropriate. As Lil Billy reaches the late game his attention is continually brought back to his base to focus on fleet beacons for rapid construction of stargates. When his base is besieged he must switch these focus pathways to the templar archives to conceal defensive forces. In the end game, Lil Billy gains mastery of battlefield intelligence when he focuses his psi energy on the observatory. He also achieves the awesome power to rescue his units from anywhere on the battlefield by recalling them back to his base.
Why Protoss?
For the Protoss, Psi IS Life. It permeates every facet of their existence. The greatest asset to the First Born’s dominance of universe around them is their ability to harness this latent but elemental power, this fundamental force upon which the cosmos is built. Psi Focusing is a direct representation of the protoss ability to channel psi to their own ends. Psi is the source of vitality for all aspects of the protoss base. It is what endows their structures and war machines to function with the efficiency and mysticism so characteristic of the protoss. But, psi is a chaotic force and its manipulation can only be achieved with the aid of an elaborate network of Khaydarin crystals to stabilize the potent energy. Coordination of this crystal lattice is achieved through a nexus. The nexus provides an anchorage in the psionic nether by which additional entities can transverse time and space. It is through this nexus that the advanced technologies of warping and energy shields are directed to protoss forces. For the Children of Aiur the psionic matrix is far more than a limitation on where they can expand or how many personnel they can employ. For the Protoss the psionic matrix is their greatest ally in bringing order to a universe in turmoil.
Dissecting the Mechanic
Note that each component (Focus Beam/Nexus/Pylon/Building) in the mechanic plays a key role. First, let us discuss the focusing beam. The focusing beam is a direct manifestation of the player’s non-automated attention. In our “tjskids safe bouncer” analogy you can think of this beam as the arm through which the controller interacts with his “toys”.
The nexus serves as the source for the focusing ray and limits the number of buildings that can be focused to one per base. In future installments I intend to address the prospect of protoss players building multiple nexus in one base. Right now I am leaning toward some sort of balancing factor or an offset cost to make it more effective for protoss players to create another expansion if they want a new focusing line rather then build more nexuses (nexi?) in their main base. As always “elegance” takes priority. Thoughts? The nexus also serves as the first stop a protoss player must make in returning to his base. From here he is in prime position to quickly assess any other base management duties that need attention.
Next we have the pylon component. As I mentioned before Nicol Bolas’s comments sparked a revelation that by attaching a cooldown factor in the form of an energy capacity the pylon could become a resource that grows exponentially as the game progresses. The attachment of energy to the pylon’s function also provides an avenue by which the pylon can regulate against its own abuse. One of the largest obstacles in effective micromanagement solutions is the expectation of automation. The pylon component circumvents this by providing strategic benefits for manual manipulation. These benefits take the form of time, space and energy resources far too sensitive and vital to entrust to the care of an algorithm. Automation would be a detriment because a computer does not and can not know how many pylons you want to use, which pylons you want the chain to involve, where you want the chain to go, when you want the chain to stop or when to alter participating pylons. The “elegance” of this mechanic is that the strategic advantage of deciding for yourself how pylon energy is utilized outweighs the convenience of automation.
Finally, we come to the building component. The “toys.” These buildings provide engaging tools for the protoss player to use. Doing so allows the player to bolster his army, manipulate critical game factors and increase productivity.
“Wait a second Archer, aren’t you just bringing micro to the base? Where’s the macro?”
Before answering this allow us first define macro (remember definition is the first step to understanding any subject matter). Imperial-guard (Content Manager at StarcraftZone.com) states “Macro in Starcraft was quite simplistic in theory: Managing your economy, your buildings, and the effectiveness of your bases while deciding upon an overarching strategy that will ultimately allow you to reach your goal, defeating your opponent.”
Let us start with economy. Economy is the acquisition and utilization of resources. Psi Focusing 2.0 transforms pylons into a higher economic niche. You acquire more of this pylon resource by building new pylons or letting expired ones recharge their energy. You then must decide how best to utilize each individual pylons energy. Do I string all of them together or just use a couple in the chain to this building? Should I build more pylons to have more psi resources or just put greater attention into using the ones that I have to the best effect?
Next we will examine how Psi Focusing 2.0 impacts building management. Note that many of the auxiliary building’s abilities utilize the psi field generated by the terminal pylon. Building placement is once again a key consideration that players must take into account if they hope to use their buildings abilities to their full potential. As one example, consider a scenario where a protoss player has a base with two entrances for enemies to attack through (Ill try and describe this but a picture would probably be better). In the center of his base is his nexus. Next to this nexus in the direction of the two entrances is the primary pylon (P1). Directly in front of each entrance is a secondary pylon (P2a and P2b). Within each secondary pylon’s sphere of influence is a defensive structure that will benefit in someway from focusing. This could be a photon cannon that receives a buff from focusing, a templar archive that will provide a cloaking field to all buildings (or units) in the vicinity of this entrance, or any other auxiliary building with protective or support capabilities. Now suppose that the protoss player knows that an attack on his base is immanent. He must set up a focusing pathway to a defensive structure to give his forces the best chance at repelling the invaders. First connects his nexus to the primary pylon (P1). Now comes the crucial decision. The primary pylon can focus on either P2a or P2b but not both. One entrance will not have the advantages of local focusing. So the player decides to connect P1 to P2a. All of the sudden the enemy shows up at the P2b entrance. The player rushes to micro his units effectively but the tide is turning against him. He rushes back to his nexus and connects the focusing beam to P1 (whose energy is partially depleted but still viable). His valiant front lines are beginning to buckle from wave after wave of invaders. He connects P1 to P2b. His army is getting slaughtered and intervention must come now or not at all. He connects P2b to the forge and activates the recharge shield ability. The forge whirls to life, latent energy surging through its frame and permeating the psi field of the terminal pylon. All across the battlefront protoss shields burst back into existence. The enemy crashes, falters and breaks upon this impenetrable wall. The foe retreats from this phantom force, able to materialize from seemingly nowhere with devastating consequences.
Finally, Psi Focusing plays a role in the overarching strategy that allows you to defeat your opponent. Remember how we talked about the most important decision players must make in a RTS (it was “what to focus on” for those with memories as short as mine). Psi Focusing brings that decision to the forefront. The more pylons you put in the chain the longer you have till you have to return back to your base to set up new pylon pathways. However creating a long pylon chain requires more clicks and time spent at your base while your army is getting pummeled by those siege ta OHH DARN IT your stalkers are goo…shouldn’t have spent so much time at your base.
Advantages
A problem with the version suggested in my supply thread was that psi focusing 1.0 lost its effectiveness as the game progressed. It should be noted that the 2.0 version scales as the game progresses. As a protoss player builds more pylons he has more resources to run his building’s special abilities. As the protoss player builds more expansions he has more nexi (yah im gonna go with nexi) with which to initiate new focusing chains.
Next I’d like to quote GRUNT (Starcraft Source forums): “One of the aspects of Macro that [I] like is the memory game. You really need to be able to stay on top of things in BW - making sure you don't have idle workers and remembering when you finish building stuff or where you sent your workers.”
Psi Focusing 2.0 recovers this memory game. In order to use this feature to its full potential protoss players have to remember the energy level of each pylon and keep track of when that energy is going to run out. The players that will benefit most are those players who are on top of base management and return to their pylons just in time to initiate focus through a “fresh” pylon pathway. For players without impeccable memory this is another good reason to return to your base. By flipping back to your base you can check all the energy levels of all of your pylons (lets say by holding down the shift key like you can with hit points in WC3). In a glance you can assess your focusing pathway and plan future pathways for when your current ones run out or you want to use a different building’s ability. While you’re at your base you might also want to complete other tasks such as Warp-In.
Now some of you may have noticed that using the Psi Mechanic requires allot of energy manipulation. You have to manage the energy levels of you pylons, the energy levels of the buildings which use energy to power their abilities…that requires a whole lot of (some pun intended) focus. I believe this adds to the immersion of being a protoss player. You belong to a race with extraordinary mental capabilities and you use your mind to calculate and maintain your control over astounding energy forces. If you want to wax poetic (I know, I know, you don’t) you can consider yourself akin to a high templar exercising extreme cerebral discipline to cast that psionic storm.
Disadvantages
In the original starcraft there was an advantage to spreading out your pylons to get a greater area of covered psi and available building space. With this mechanic there is a crowding “issue” were protoss players would place all of their pylons and buildings adjacent to take full advantage of this mechanic. Autocheesybacon (from the Blizzard forums) and I have been working to devise a solution. While we attempt to deal with this “issue” there is something I would like everyone to keep in mind.
For every “issue” a mechanic has there is a remedy. This remedy often takes the shape of another feature, aspect or detail. With each such remedy the complexity of the mechanic is increased. Complexity distances the game from new and casual players. And so we resume the search for that delicate balance of the intricate and the intuitive. Once again the answer lies in that alluring ideal “elegance.” Alas there was never a more evasive temptress.
Conclusion
In closing, I am eager to explore the full potential of psi focusing. I am considering expanding this mechanic to encompass a more holistic approach to macromanagement. I believe that psi focusing may provide benefits to all aspects of macro from base building to economy management. However, I wanted to present it to you guys with respect to only auxiliary buildings first. You guys have an amazing penchant for pointing out flaws that I was wholly oblivious to. Once I hear what you guys have to say we will see if this idea is worth applying to the entirety of protoss macro.
Until then, may you learn to love constructing additional pylons.
Addendum 9/19/08: Modeling Macro Mechanics I am pleased to announce the first “Modeling Macro Mechanics” section of this threaditorial. In these sections proposals will be modeled to reflect game play impact. Methods for modeling will take a variety of forms. Today I am going to offer what pylon focusing might feel like by providing a link to a game that features similar mechanics.
http://homokaasu.org/gasgames/game.gas?6
In future sections we will go into further depth but for now I just want to hear the community’s thoughts on where “Thesis to Increase Macro” is heading. What do you like, what don’t you like, where can we improve and how. Feel free to state your opinions here or if you are shy you can PM me.
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let me give u a tip. starcraft allow the player to assume 2 types of gameplay. macro heavy: where players are able to manage their ECONOMY in such a way where they can build units in a timely fashion. micro/macro: insert here players able to use both micro and macro in such harmonic way, like NaDa for example and Jaedong.
you should work on economy features,that bring back that macro to sc2 , this idea create an artificial macro by adding something with low impact in gameplay style
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hey dude you are truly awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The ideas you are coming up with with you should seriously send these to Lizzard for them to look at. Don't ask me how to do that though i have no clue, but let me give you something to think about for terran and zerg.
For zerg i have been thinking about it and i came up with an idea for underground tunnels for transportation of zerg creep nutrients. It fits the zerg lore as the main zerg colonies are connected by huge tunnel systems some of these are on Tarsonis and Char. To iniciate the ability the tunnels would start at the hatchery and then the zerg would have to sacrifice units to make the abilities work for a certain period of time. They would also have to connect the building to each other to by the tunnels.
I don't know anything about making the specific abilities for each building, but maybe you could think of that.
For the Terrans the ability would be geothermal power cuplinks. This fits the terran style as the terrans are continuesly looking for new ways to power the fuel hungary vehicles and assembly plants. The ablilty would look like grates connecting the buildings or powerlines above and when the buildings took off the connection would dissapear or stay deoending on balancing issues. If it dissapeared the terran would have to restablish the connestions, but if the connections stayed it would require extensive base planning and managment. To initiate the ablilty it would cost a certain amount of minerals or gas and maybe even both to balance the game out.
I don't know about either of these, but if you or other people could think about it it would probably turn out as amazing or maybe even better than this post!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks in advance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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O and by the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The way the zerg would sacrifice air units would be the opening in the hatcher, lair, or hive and ground units would enter like a nydus canal. I got this idea and the previous one above from your second theory.
For the terran i also suppose that the cost could be that power cuplinks could be hooked up to mineral patches making that mineral patch unusable or maybe unusable and it would mine minerals. I also think that the cost would be to deduct a certain amount of supply for its use. Maybe even recylcing whole supply depos and other buildings might be an adequit way to use the recycle ability and use it as a cost too. I got this idea as i was thinking of ways to offset the autominining.
Thanks again for reading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On September 14 2008 11:06 Ki_Do wrote: let me give u a tip. starcraft allow the player to assume 2 types of gameplay. macro heavy: where players are able to manage their ECONOMY in such a way where they can build units in a timely fashion. micro/macro: insert here players able to use both micro and macro in such harmonic way, like NaDa for example and Jaedong.
you should work on economy features,that bring back that macro to sc2 , this idea create an artificial macro by adding something with low impact in gameplay style
ahh yes, ki do hit the problem right on the head.
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This is way too complicated. You speak of elegance and this crosses the line into being clunky. You've added almost a new building ability almost proportional to the number of fighting units in the game. That is a serious problem when it comes to watchability in any Protoss matchup. Units all have a pretty strong indication of what they do based on looking at them, defensive structures included.
Add these elements and the idea that you will know what does what just by looking at structures goes out the window. With nearly 10 separate building abilities, you can't expect a viewer to know what they all do. Then there's the problem of all of the abilities being sort of small, so a viewer might not even notice they are happening.
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A very in depth article indeed.
I, again, like the idea on a graphical view. One may call it over-complicated but bear in mind it's the OP choice to bring the player back to toy with his base. I wouldn't call the building options you propose inconsistent.
This is simply a drastic change from SC1 you are evoking right there, thus be ready for a lot of pessimistic comments.
Initial Impressions Lot to read, (too much probably)
Perceived Problems Drastic change from vanilla, may be too many small options
Suggested Solutions Give this "Pylon link" may be a more general enhancement of your base, or army. (less options, more impact)
Posted in a hurry, congrats for your idea anyway
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10387 Posts
This is a very artificial way to improve macro. Its like adding a "increase firepower for 2 seconds, and then have a 3 second cooldown" ability to every unit in order to try to "increase" micro. Not only that, but it'll sure as hell confuse a lot of the spectators and cause SC2 to go the way of WC3 as an E-sport.
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comprehensive summary please -_-
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On September 14 2008 19:10 lolaloc wrote: comprehensive summary please -_-
I´ll try to trim the basics down: People see the Basebuilding aspect of SC (MACRO) as a chore and try to minimize the Time they "waste" there and rather try to blow up the enemy with units. To solve that "problem" it is proposed to make the Base "fun".
The idea presented here is for Protoss: Energy is transportet from the nexus via Pylons to power special abilities on the Buildings.
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On September 14 2008 14:15 GeneralStan wrote: This is way too complicated. You speak of elegance and this crosses the line into being clunky. You've added almost a new building ability almost proportional to the number of fighting units in the game. That is a serious problem when it comes to watchability in any Protoss matchup. Units all have a pretty strong indication of what they do based on looking at them, defensive structures included.
Add these elements and the idea that you will know what does what just by looking at structures goes out the window. With nearly 10 separate building abilities, you can't expect a viewer to know what they all do. Then there's the problem of all of the abilities being sort of small, so a viewer might not even notice they are happening.
Please do not just restate issues that I have already pointed out in my thesis as if I was not aware of them. However, if you have something constructive to add, like a solution to increase visual clarity, then I am all ears.
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You mention that its complex without acknowledging that it is way way too complex and adds very little to the game. There is really no way to salvage all the little abilities you've added to buildings.
On the other hand, I like the idea of going from pylon to pylon focusing the energy (it reminds me of ley lines). The question is what can we do to maintain that mechanic without over complicating the game.
My best idea is to simply have the energy focusing allow a production facility to lower building times
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On September 15 2008 04:52 GeneralStan wrote: You mention that its complex without acknowledging that it is way way too complex and adds very little to the game. There is really no way to salvage all the little abilities you've added to buildings.
Please justify this statement.
P.S. So you think focusing could be used to lower unit production time in production buildings like gateways? Not a bad idea. Ill look into it.
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I like the idea, it's well thought and could be a solution to the macro problem, but as mentioned by the second post you should focus on economical boosts.
The robotics support bay idea is a good example on what you should be aiming for.
Another thing that might be usefull might be to allow -through this ability- to link a chain of Gateways or Stargates to increse their building rate for a short amount of time.
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On September 15 2008 05:10 Drakill Tannan wrote: I like the idea, it's well thought and could be a solution to the macro problem, but as mentioned by the second post you should focus on economical boosts.
The robotics support bay idea is a good example on what you should be aiming for.
Another thing that might be usefull might be to allow -through this ability- to link a chain of Gateways or Stargates to increse their building rate for a short amount of time.
One difficulty I am having with traditional economic solutions (mining/gas) is that in order to change mineral and gas mechanics to be both fun and competitively engaging you have to drastically alter the very nature of harvesting. It appears some members of the starcraft community already view mechanic changes such as psi focusing to be too “far out.” These members are going to have a mouthful to say when I return to economic solutions. Furthermore, the answer I am searching for is not limited to only base management or only economic endeavors. I believe that the final solution for SC2 will holistically incorporate all aspects of macromanagement.
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On September 15 2008 05:21 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2008 05:10 Drakill Tannan wrote: I like the idea, it's well thought and could be a solution to the macro problem, but as mentioned by the second post you should focus on economical boosts.
The robotics support bay idea is a good example on what you should be aiming for.
Another thing that might be usefull might be to allow -through this ability- to link a chain of Gateways or Stargates to increse their building rate for a short amount of time. One difficulty I am having with traditional economic solutions (mining/gas) is that in order to change mineral and gas mechanics to be both fun and competitively engaging you have to drastically alter the very nature of harvesting. It appears some members of the starcraft community already view mechanic changes such as psi focusing to be too “far out.” These members are going to have a mouthful to say when I return to economic solutions. Furthermore, the answer I am searching for is not limited to only base management or only economic endeavors. I believe that the final solution for SC2 will holistically incorporate all aspects of macromanagement.
Just keep in mind that any idea you propose is going to rub someone the wrong way. Choose a stance and forget about pleasing everyone with a perfect solution.
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Initial Impressions it reminds me alot of power towers from wc3. check it out if you haven't already. it's a fun read. obviously well thought out but i disagree with your perception of how buildings will be viewed in starcraft 2. i think with mbs buildings are alot more important and are going to be neglected less. you can select multiple towers for example and focus fire units one at a time to take them down faster. it does remind me of the mission where you have duran as zerg and you have to blow up protoss pylon clusters, so your idea is somewhat realistic. Perceived Problems you're not going to have anything for the zerg and terran to work with and it will be unbalanced. Suggested Solutions save it for campaigns and ums maps. even if you could come up with something for the zerg or terran, it wouldn't be as cool as this idea. just make a ums map called the defense of shakuras or something like that.
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I apologize but I only read up to the citadel but it doesn't seem, for a lack of better word, starcraft-like. Honestly, I think it would do much better in Warcraft. Like stated before, it seems too artificial.
When a player fights a good fight and returns to his base he should be rewarded, ideally, the same amount of effort he puts in. In Starcraft, each time a unit was made, it was considered one unit. One click, one unit. It seems in Starcraft 2, when a hotkey is clicked now considered one clump of units. Less work for more reward.
I've always seen micro and macro as a fight against your opponent and a fight against your limits, respectively. Your idea seems to be more of a fight against your opponent inside your base. Essentially it seems you just created static units.
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A lot of effort was put into this. But it is aimed to negate one of Blizzards key goals: to keep the action going and make the game as intuitive and "fluid" as possible.
It does what it is supposed to: Urges the player to spend more time in his base instead of the Battlefield. As you yourself pointed out the Base is only a pacing tool.
For this idea to be viable in SC2 we would have change some basics of the game like aimed at average gametime, importance of execution, importance of Strategy, general Pace.
Making the base fun, making the player come back to it etc. would inevitably slow down the game and I just don´t see Blizzard to do that.
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On September 14 2008 16:15 ArvickHero wrote: This is a very artificial way to improve macro. Its like adding a "increase firepower for 2 seconds, and then have a 3 second cooldown" ability to every unit in order to try to "increase" micro. Not only that, but it'll sure as hell confuse a lot of the spectators and cause SC2 to go the way of WC3 as an E-sport.
WC3 is more popular in every country in the world besides Korea. Even the custom game DOTA is the same way. You should think before you speak.
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On September 16 2008 02:58 Unentschieden wrote: A lot of effort was put into this. But it is aimed to negate one of Blizzards key goals: to keep the action going and make the game as intuitive and "fluid" as possible.
It does what it is supposed to: Urges the player to spend more time in his base instead of the Battlefield. As you yourself pointed out the Base is only a pacing tool.
For this idea to be viable in SC2 we would have change some basics of the game like aimed at average gametime, importance of execution, importance of Strategy, general Pace.
Making the base fun, making the player come back to it etc. would inevitably slow down the game and I just don´t see Blizzard to do that.
actly in brood war u have to spend some time macroing, is brood war slow paced?
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On September 15 2008 22:06 dcttr66 wrote:
you're not going to have anything for the zerg and terran to work with and it will be unbalanced.
even if you could come up with something for the zerg or terran, it wouldn't be as cool as this idea.
Lol That sounds like a dare to me. I accept your challenge.
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On September 16 2008 07:03 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2008 22:06 dcttr66 wrote:
you're not going to have anything for the zerg and terran to work with and it will be unbalanced.
even if you could come up with something for the zerg or terran, it wouldn't be as cool as this idea.
Lol That sounds like a dare to me. I accept your challenge.
For Zerg, the answer is simple enough: do something with the queen. (I've made posts alone the same lines in sclegacy about non-combat spell casting, go search it)
For Terran, I think something along the traditional lines of mines-turrets-seige-unseige, would work. Adding abilities to addons (reactor/techlab) would also be a route...
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On September 16 2008 02:41 Ozarugold wrote: I apologize but I only read up to the citadel
No, apology not accepted. NEVER post in a thread where you have not read the subject matter in its entirety. It shows incredible ignorance.
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On September 16 2008 06:31 Ki_Do wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2008 02:58 Unentschieden wrote: A lot of effort was put into this. But it is aimed to negate one of Blizzards key goals: to keep the action going and make the game as intuitive and "fluid" as possible.
It does what it is supposed to: Urges the player to spend more time in his base instead of the Battlefield. As you yourself pointed out the Base is only a pacing tool.
For this idea to be viable in SC2 we would have change some basics of the game like aimed at average gametime, importance of execution, importance of Strategy, general Pace.
Making the base fun, making the player come back to it etc. would inevitably slow down the game and I just don´t see Blizzard to do that. actly in brood war u have to spend some time macroing, is brood war slow paced?
OP´s goal is to increase the time and effort the player spends on his base compared to what currently happens in SC:BW. If his suggestions DIDN´T slow the pace he would miss his goal of making Bases a bigger part of the gameplay.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
These are great posts, the amount of thought and effort you put into them is very obvious. Personally I didn't like the vast majority of your ideas, but they are certainly unique and intuitive. Thanks for posting
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On September 16 2008 07:03 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2008 22:06 dcttr66 wrote:
you're not going to have anything for the zerg and terran to work with and it will be unbalanced.
even if you could come up with something for the zerg or terran, it wouldn't be as cool as this idea.
Lol That sounds like a dare to me. I accept your challenge. ahaha. yeah, i was challenging you. but i challenged you to make a ums map based on this principle, not to do what i told you was useless to try, haha. but obviously you're free to do with your free time whatever you wish.
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Addendum 9/19/08: Added first "Modeling Macro Mechanics" feature to opening post.
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On September 16 2008 07:19 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2008 02:41 Ozarugold wrote: I apologize but I only read up to the citadel
No, apology not accepted. NEVER post in a thread where you have not read the subject matter in its entirety. It shows incredible ignorance. O_o
Okay, I just read it all~
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I agree with the point that this has the WarCraft3-ish feeling where people will have to know the game more deeply to understand what they are spectating. Besides that, this will make the players spend more time in their base. The joy of battle including strategy and tactics is going to be drastically reduced. StarCraft is an RTS here where you play for a quick half to one/two hour games not a Multiplayer SimCity or Utopia where they are meant to be played or run for hours or even days and months.
We do need some macro stuff but this isn't it. Thanks for these suggestions anyway.
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Taken as a whole these proposals are to complicated, but perhaps one or two ideas on their own could be taken away from this.Perhaps the OP should of left the ideas as proposals that could be cherry picked by the developer, rather than 1 offer a comprehensive solution.
Given that Blizzard already has Warp Gates in place for Protoss,(the best macro we have seen)these ideas could be taken as additions to that. I just find it funny how all the inspired ideas out there, seem to be for Protoss.
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Ugh, why do we want to increase macro again?
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On September 21 2008 00:00 Megrim wrote: Ugh, why do we want to increase macro again?
MBS Discussion I, II, III, and countless other threads on MBS, macro, and low multi-tasking demand in SC2. Read them before posting such rubbish, please.
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i feel sorry for anyone who would spend so much time reading all of that. aren't those threads 30 pages long with really long posts and mass quoting?
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Wow, you REALLY put some serious effort to make your ideas valid. While I wasn't able to finish reading past 1/3 of it (no attention span) your pylon idea seems quite valid. However, it somewhat resembles the concept of moon wells in warcraft 3. Extremely different but it seems that it brings too much of a warcrafty feel. I don't really know but good job on the ideas
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Question:
Have you thought about having this ability be tied to the nexus's shields? As in, the energy that gets passed along the pylons "drains" the shields. Might be an interesting dimension as powering up your macro (assuming you go with more econ related abilities instead of the ones you listed) would leave your building more vulnerable to harassment.
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On September 21 2008 08:37 LaughingTulkas wrote: Question:
Have you thought about having this ability be tied to the nexus's shields? As in, the energy that gets passed along the pylons "drains" the shields. Might be an interesting dimension as powering up your macro (assuming you go with more econ related abilities instead of the ones you listed) would leave your building more vulnerable to harassment.
You guys are great. Lot of good suggestions.
Swapping out the “energy” values for shield values is exactly the kind of elegant solutions I was hoping for. Attaching focusing to shields reduces the complexity of the mechanic while maintaining almost every other aspect.
In designing solutions to a problem it is useful to employ “out of the box” thinking. This introduces you to other areas of design space. After investigating these new areas of design spaces you can work on increasing “elegance” and with it simplicity.
For everyone saying many of these mechanics are too complex, I agree with you. Where I believe we differ is our design philosophy. I subscribe to the belief that you have to go through a whole bunch of bad ideas before you find your gems. But if you guys are capable of materializing perfect solutions from nether regions well more power to you. This threaditorial is for those who, like me, have to put time and effort into our design process. I intend to devote an upcoming section to simplifying mechanics.
On September 20 2008 23:33 moebius_string wrote: Taken as a whole these proposals are to complicated, but perhaps one or two ideas on their own could be taken away from this.Perhaps the OP should of left the ideas as proposals that could be cherry picked by the developer, rather than 1 offer a comprehensive solution.
Given that Blizzard already has Warp Gates in place for Protoss,(the best macro we have seen)these ideas could be taken as additions to that. I just find it funny how all the inspired ideas out there, seem to be for Protoss.
As stated above these proposals are not “gold master CD” products. As such they should not be viewed as a All-or-None deal. Instead, they form the foundation of a broad reaching design project intended to improve macromanagement in Starcraft 2. I will go into more details in future installments.
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theory #4:: increase chicks plaiying game so avg macro level falls
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On September 21 2008 01:34 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2008 00:00 Megrim wrote: Ugh, why do we want to increase macro again? MBS Discussion I, II, III, and countless other threads on MBS, macro, and low multi-tasking demand in SC2. Read them before posting such rubbish, please.
You didn't actually answer my question though.
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i like the game time to be under 30 mins plz
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On September 21 2008 00:00 Megrim wrote: Ugh, why do we want to increase macro again?
"We have been working hard for the last several months on ways to improve the gas mechanic in StarCraft 2. There are a couple of goals for this design change:
1) Gas doesnt always involve a lot of choice or strategy in SC2. You tend to just try to collect as much as you can as fast as you can and it involves only a few of your workers. Could a new way of collecting gas be another way to add more strategy to the game?
2) Base building and economy management isnt as strategically deep as we want it to be in StarCraft 2. StarCraft has always been a game where economy plays a large role in your strategy. Can we improve what we have?
The second issue is extremely important to us. Gas doesnt HAVE to be more interesting, but economy strategy and economy management must be an important part of the game. We have tried at least a dozen different gas systems in the last few months as we have explored what works and doesnt work inside StarCraft game play. We will continue to work on different ideas for a new gas mechanic until we find something that meets our needs or until we discover that all possible solutions are worse than what we currently have. What was shown at WWI was very much a work-in-progress, and while it continues to evolve it is valuable to be able to read forum posts from our fans about what they liked or didnt like in the last build they had a chance to play."
-Dustin Browder, Lead Designer of StarCraft II 8/14/2008 2:56:54 PM PDT
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yeah yeah no problem...
Slippy Toad - Starfox 64
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This sounds far from fun. I don't understand why we're trying to 'find' a new way to make macro fun when macro is already fun in StarCraft: Brood War
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On September 22 2008 06:24 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2008 00:00 Megrim wrote: Ugh, why do we want to increase macro again? "We have been working hard for the last several months on ways to improve the gas mechanic in StarCraft 2. There are a couple of goals for this design change: 1) Gas doesnt always involve a lot of choice or strategy in SC2. You tend to just try to collect as much as you can as fast as you can and it involves only a few of your workers. Could a new way of collecting gas be another way to add more strategy to the game? 2) Base building and economy management isnt as strategically deep as we want it to be in StarCraft 2. StarCraft has always been a game where economy plays a large role in your strategy. Can we improve what we have? The second issue is extremely important to us. Gas doesnt HAVE to be more interesting, but economy strategy and economy management must be an important part of the game. We have tried at least a dozen different gas systems in the last few months as we have explored what works and doesnt work inside StarCraft game play. We will continue to work on different ideas for a new gas mechanic until we find something that meets our needs or until we discover that all possible solutions are worse than what we currently have. What was shown at WWI was very much a work-in-progress, and while it continues to evolve it is valuable to be able to read forum posts from our fans about what they liked or didnt like in the last build they had a chance to play." -Dustin Browder, Lead Designer of StarCraft II 8/14/2008 2:56:54 PM PDT
Uuuuh-huh, now re-read what you're suggesting and tell us what it has to do with economic management. There you might say "aha! but i'm addressing the 'base building' part of the quote", but then i think the problem is that you are confusing strategic depth with functional complexity. Adding 3295873459683479586279857398 things to do in your base before you can build a building (or build it more 'efficiently') isn't deep, it's tedious.
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On September 22 2008 12:19 Megrim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2008 06:24 Archerofaiur wrote:On September 21 2008 00:00 Megrim wrote: Ugh, why do we want to increase macro again? "We have been working hard for the last several months on ways to improve the gas mechanic in StarCraft 2. There are a couple of goals for this design change: 1) Gas doesnt always involve a lot of choice or strategy in SC2. You tend to just try to collect as much as you can as fast as you can and it involves only a few of your workers. Could a new way of collecting gas be another way to add more strategy to the game? 2) Base building and economy management isnt as strategically deep as we want it to be in StarCraft 2. StarCraft has always been a game where economy plays a large role in your strategy. Can we improve what we have? The second issue is extremely important to us. Gas doesnt HAVE to be more interesting, but economy strategy and economy management must be an important part of the game. We have tried at least a dozen different gas systems in the last few months as we have explored what works and doesnt work inside StarCraft game play. We will continue to work on different ideas for a new gas mechanic until we find something that meets our needs or until we discover that all possible solutions are worse than what we currently have. What was shown at WWI was very much a work-in-progress, and while it continues to evolve it is valuable to be able to read forum posts from our fans about what they liked or didnt like in the last build they had a chance to play." -Dustin Browder, Lead Designer of StarCraft II 8/14/2008 2:56:54 PM PDT Uuuuh-huh, now re-read what you're suggesting and tell us what it has to do with economic management. There you might say "aha! but i'm addressing the 'base building' part of the quote", but then i think the problem is that you are confusing strategic depth with functional complexity. Adding 3295873459683479586279857398 things to do in your base before you can build a building (or build it more 'efficiently') isn't deep, it's tedious.
On September 15 2008 05:21 Archerofaiur wrote:
One difficulty I am having with traditional economic solutions (mining/gas) is that in order to change mineral and gas mechanics to be both fun and competitively engaging you have to drastically alter the very nature of harvesting. It appears some members of the starcraft community already view mechanic changes such as psi focusing to be too “far out.” These members are going to have a mouthful to say when I return to economic solutions. Furthermore, the answer I am searching for is not limited to only base management or only economic endeavors. I believe that the final solution for SC2 will holistically incorporate all aspects of macromanagement.
Please read the threads you are posting in.
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Zerg Macro Proposal
I greatly enjoyed reading your post Archerofaiur. It is apparent that a lot of thought went in to your ideas. I am happy to see that people are working to improve Starcraft 2. I only hope that your posts have initiated creativity in people other than me. While I was not agreeable to all of your ideas I felt most of them were a shot in the right direction. I know you requested that we help you improve the ideas that you proposed, but by the time I finished reading your post my mind was already off tinkering with a similar design for the zerg. My thoughts regarding this are as follows…..
I decided to replace the tentacles in your idea with arteries. I feel it is fitting because arteries feed blood to the body’s organs and in my design this mechanic would increase the effectiveness of the zerg war machine. The Artery ability is selected from Hatchery/Lair/Hive then another non-hatchery building is selected as the target. A visual effect indicates that an artery has formed between the Hatchery/Lair/Hive and the targeted building. Only one artery may be selected from each Hatchery/Lair/Hive and buildings may only have one artery connected to them at a time. A Hatchery/Lair/Hive may only connect an artery to a building located on the same patch of creep as it.
This is a loose bundle of thoughts. I would appreciate any help in organizing and balancing these ideas to create a more solid mechanic.
Artery Effect on Buildings From Starcraft: Brood Wars
Extractor- The rate at which Vespene Gas is harvested from the Extractor increases.
Creep Colony- The rate at which the upgrade from Creep Colonies to Sunken/Spore Colonies takes place is increased.
Spawning Pool- While connected to the Hatchery/Lair/Hive there is a chance for an extra Zergling to be spawned from each egg designated to hatch a pair of Zerglings. I am aware that this mechanic is based on chance and pro gamers may not be happy with that. I implore you all to offer suggestions on balancing or replacing this aspect of the mechanic.
Evolution Chamber- New evolutions are unlocked. The artery must remain connected to the Evolution Chamber for the duration of the upgrade process.
Hydralisk Den- Hydralisks evolve into Lurkers at a quicker rate when located within a certain distance of the Hydralisk Den.
Queen’s Nest- Drones located near a queen have an increased harvesting rate.
Spire/Greater Spire- Mutalisks evolve into Guardians/Devourers at a quicker rate when located within a certain distance of the Spire/Greater Spire.
Defiler Mound- Increased production rate for a time, then production halts for a similar time.
Ultralisk Cavern- Ultralisks take less time to be created.
Similar Ideas Unrelated to Macro
Nydus Canal- Nydus Canals gain the ability to “burrow.”
Spore Colony- The attack speed of the Spore Colony is increased.
Sunken Colony- The attack speed of the Sunken Colony is increased.
I hope that those of you reading this will think on these ideas (or formulate your own) and suggest how to improve them.
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On September 22 2008 12:23 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2008 12:19 Megrim wrote:On September 22 2008 06:24 Archerofaiur wrote:On September 21 2008 00:00 Megrim wrote: Ugh, why do we want to increase macro again? "We have been working hard for the last several months on ways to improve the gas mechanic in StarCraft 2. There are a couple of goals for this design change: 1) Gas doesnt always involve a lot of choice or strategy in SC2. You tend to just try to collect as much as you can as fast as you can and it involves only a few of your workers. Could a new way of collecting gas be another way to add more strategy to the game? 2) Base building and economy management isnt as strategically deep as we want it to be in StarCraft 2. StarCraft has always been a game where economy plays a large role in your strategy. Can we improve what we have? The second issue is extremely important to us. Gas doesnt HAVE to be more interesting, but economy strategy and economy management must be an important part of the game. We have tried at least a dozen different gas systems in the last few months as we have explored what works and doesnt work inside StarCraft game play. We will continue to work on different ideas for a new gas mechanic until we find something that meets our needs or until we discover that all possible solutions are worse than what we currently have. What was shown at WWI was very much a work-in-progress, and while it continues to evolve it is valuable to be able to read forum posts from our fans about what they liked or didnt like in the last build they had a chance to play." -Dustin Browder, Lead Designer of StarCraft II 8/14/2008 2:56:54 PM PDT Uuuuh-huh, now re-read what you're suggesting and tell us what it has to do with economic management. There you might say "aha! but i'm addressing the 'base building' part of the quote", but then i think the problem is that you are confusing strategic depth with functional complexity. Adding 3295873459683479586279857398 things to do in your base before you can build a building (or build it more 'efficiently') isn't deep, it's tedious. Show nested quote +On September 15 2008 05:21 Archerofaiur wrote:
One difficulty I am having with traditional economic solutions (mining/gas) is that in order to change mineral and gas mechanics to be both fun and competitively engaging you have to drastically alter the very nature of harvesting. It appears some members of the starcraft community already view mechanic changes such as psi focusing to be too “far out.” These members are going to have a mouthful to say when I return to economic solutions. Furthermore, the answer I am searching for is not limited to only base management or only economic endeavors. I believe that the final solution for SC2 will holistically incorporate all aspects of macromanagement. Please read the threads you are posting in.
So what you're saying is, you haven't thought of anything to actually do with the economy, and i'm entirely correct in guessing as much? Um... congrats?
Furthermore, what do you suppose 'psi focusing' actually adds to the game? Because it sure as shit aint' adding "strategic depth".
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Wow this is like reading a dissertation on Starcraft. Um... anyone want to give me the executive summary?;;
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On September 22 2008 12:56 Megrim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2008 12:23 Archerofaiur wrote:On September 22 2008 12:19 Megrim wrote:On September 22 2008 06:24 Archerofaiur wrote:On September 21 2008 00:00 Megrim wrote: Ugh, why do we want to increase macro again? "We have been working hard for the last several months on ways to improve the gas mechanic in StarCraft 2. There are a couple of goals for this design change: 1) Gas doesnt always involve a lot of choice or strategy in SC2. You tend to just try to collect as much as you can as fast as you can and it involves only a few of your workers. Could a new way of collecting gas be another way to add more strategy to the game? 2) Base building and economy management isnt as strategically deep as we want it to be in StarCraft 2. StarCraft has always been a game where economy plays a large role in your strategy. Can we improve what we have? The second issue is extremely important to us. Gas doesnt HAVE to be more interesting, but economy strategy and economy management must be an important part of the game. We have tried at least a dozen different gas systems in the last few months as we have explored what works and doesnt work inside StarCraft game play. We will continue to work on different ideas for a new gas mechanic until we find something that meets our needs or until we discover that all possible solutions are worse than what we currently have. What was shown at WWI was very much a work-in-progress, and while it continues to evolve it is valuable to be able to read forum posts from our fans about what they liked or didnt like in the last build they had a chance to play." -Dustin Browder, Lead Designer of StarCraft II 8/14/2008 2:56:54 PM PDT Uuuuh-huh, now re-read what you're suggesting and tell us what it has to do with economic management. There you might say "aha! but i'm addressing the 'base building' part of the quote", but then i think the problem is that you are confusing strategic depth with functional complexity. Adding 3295873459683479586279857398 things to do in your base before you can build a building (or build it more 'efficiently') isn't deep, it's tedious. On September 15 2008 05:21 Archerofaiur wrote:
One difficulty I am having with traditional economic solutions (mining/gas) is that in order to change mineral and gas mechanics to be both fun and competitively engaging you have to drastically alter the very nature of harvesting. It appears some members of the starcraft community already view mechanic changes such as psi focusing to be too “far out.” These members are going to have a mouthful to say when I return to economic solutions. Furthermore, the answer I am searching for is not limited to only base management or only economic endeavors. I believe that the final solution for SC2 will holistically incorporate all aspects of macromanagement. Please read the threads you are posting in. So what you're saying is, you haven't thought of anything to actually do with the economy, and i'm entirely correct in guessing as much? Um... congrats? Furthermore, what do you suppose 'psi focusing' actually adds to the game? Because it sure as shit aint' adding "strategic depth".
The funny thing is that Archerofaiur here explained why his idea has nothing to do with increasing Macro. Generally the idea to expand on the "Protoss Buildings need energy" premise by giving them actuall energy and stuff to use it on is not bad. But in the form he presents it here it´s a "Thesis to improve Building related Micro".
Suprisingly he already has a idea what the game needs (or at least what Blizzard trys to accomplish): More involving economy. Economy in SC:BW is VERY simple and would be a joke if it wasn´t so difficult to execute while handling a competent enemy.
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See, that's a little more to the point. But on the other hand, what makes you so sure that Star2 needs a more complicated (ok ok, "involving") economy? I rather like having a streamlined economy which pushes players faster into combat - the opposite of which would be playing SimCity.
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Great read, you're an excellent poster and I fully enjoyed reading your ideas. I also liked how you explained lore in order to have the reader understand how you got your concepts.
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Man go create a new game, all these things would be great for some new RTS, but not for SC2. damn
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