On May 22 2013 14:29 sputnic wrote: Can I complain to Time Warner that they do this and I am not getting what I am paying for? I cannot watch Twitch decently at even 240p, and I am paying for the 20 download and 2 upload.
EDIT: So I am paying for 20 down and 2 up
- My Speedtest says i am getting 10.7 down and 1.8 up - Heard other problems from other people about Time Warner Throttling YouTube as well, which I could see because my YouTube is usually just like my twitch. But as of right now when I tested it ( 11pm ) it can run HD. Wierd. But, even though YouTube is magically better, Twitch still runs like poop.
Any ideas? Thanks guys
Also, I have been lagging a lot in sc2 as well and my ping is 33ms
Thanks
I've heard stories of people calling and complaining but even their Level 3 tech will just play dumb. It's not like you can really prove it and then go sue em. They advertise as "UP to XX/XX speeds". But did everyone read my post? The fix works!! just get a vpn. PM me and I'll tell you exactly which one I use. It comes with like a 15 day return if it doesn't work, so what do you got to lose?
I cannot watch streams above 480p without unbearable video stutter. I have TWC but I am not at all convinced that the problem is them and not Twitch. I have a TWC tech guy coming out tomorrow to replace my old modem and attempt to diagnose the issue.
Does anyone have compelling evidence that TWC is the issue? Didn't people with other ISPs report the same issue?
I am not at all a TWC fan, but they are the only viable option available to my apt complex. Still, until I see any evidence that suggests TWC is the actual issue, I think blaming it on them is a red herring. Blame them for their real issue, uncompetitive pricing.
I don't know if this will help or not, but I have a workaround for when twitch stutters involving watching it through another source. I'd rather not provide specifics here to bring false hope. If anyone is interested feel free to PM me.
Keep in mind I don't have TWC (have comcast), however twitch has been becoming worse and worse for me to watch without constant video stuttering, and this method had provided a stutter free viewing experience. (I've never had quality issues and always watch on highest, but it does work for other qualities). This method also includes downloading a third-party zip file, which I've checked out and feel safe enough to be using, but want to make sure I provide full disclosure for anyone interested. Also, Windows only =/
On May 28 2013 08:23 wesbare wrote: I cannot watch streams above 480p without unbearable video stutter. I have TWC but I am not at all convinced that the problem is them and not Twitch. I have a TWC tech guy coming out tomorrow to replace my old modem and attempt to diagnose the issue.
Does anyone have compelling evidence that TWC is the issue? Didn't people with other ISPs report the same issue?
I am not at all a TWC fan, but they are the only viable option available to my apt complex. Still, until I see any evidence that suggests TWC is the actual issue, I think blaming it on them is a red herring. Blame them for their real issue, uncompetitive pricing.
Time Warner Cable is doing something called bandwidth throttling. I didn't quite understand until my boyfriend explained it to me. To prove this, he found a video on youtube where using a proxy fixes the issue.
No proxy = stuttering. With proxy = no stuttering.
On May 28 2013 08:23 wesbare wrote: I cannot watch streams above 480p without unbearable video stutter. I have TWC but I am not at all convinced that the problem is them and not Twitch. I have a TWC tech guy coming out tomorrow to replace my old modem and attempt to diagnose the issue.
Does anyone have compelling evidence that TWC is the issue? Didn't people with other ISPs report the same issue?
I am not at all a TWC fan, but they are the only viable option available to my apt complex. Still, until I see any evidence that suggests TWC is the actual issue, I think blaming it on them is a red herring. Blame them for their real issue, uncompetitive pricing.
Time Warner Cable is doing something called bandwidth throttling. I didn't quite understand until my boyfriend explained it to me. To prove this, he found a video on youtube where using a proxy fixes the issue.
Where is the proxy located? I think you would get more solid evidence if you had a proxy that also used TWC but in a different location (maybe TWC where the proxy is? ). I believe it is a region issue.
A TWC tech guy just came to my house to replace my modem. Apparently, I pay for 15/1mpbs, but they have some turbo feature on my package that means I can get significantly over 15 down during non-congested hours (speedtest.net and testmy.net both reported me at 21-23mbps down). Strangely, even before he changed the modem, I could watch twitch streams at 720p with little to no problems, whereas just yesterday I couldn't handle anything above 480p. This was only true for Twitch. Youtube or Dailymotion had no problems with live streams above 480p.
As of right now, only 1080p twitch streams stutter (~once per 3-5 secs), while 720p is running smoothly. I hope it stays that way.
The rumor on this thread, and on the internet at large it seems, is that TWC throttles. The level 3 tech guy from TWC on the phone said that is a false rumor, as did the tech who came to my house. You can say they're lying and I have no real evidence to affirm or deny whether they throttle, but from my end, the problem seems to be Twitch. I can watch SK Planet Proleague live streams on Youtube with no lag. On twitch (as of this past weekend...I have not checked yet today because proleague isn't on right now) I have to watch at 480p to avoid lag. I don't have any reason to blame that on TWC, but it makes sense that Youtube can handle an uncongested number of live viewers on their servers, better than Twitch can handle the thousands of live viewers congesting its servers. Then again, I don't know whether it makes a difference to a server whether it is hosting a live stream (Twitch's primary service) or an archived video (Youtube's primary service). I lack knowledge here.
I have tried the IP range block posted by others in this thread, and it made no visible difference for Twitch (which corroborates Rich's statement above).
P.S. I watched the video above of the apparent side-by-side streams watching WCS America, one using a proxy and the other not. I won't pretend I have a working knowledge of proxies as I have never paid for one (I'll look them up I guess), but am I to assume that those streams were viewed simultaneously from the same house, on the same local network, utilizing the same ISP, except that one device (with a static IP?) is connect to a paid-for proxy service while another device is connected without a proxy? Again, I don't know enough about proxies to know whether you can connect one local IP on a network to a proxy, but have another device on the same local network connect without that proxy. Or do proxies redirect traffic on your entire local network?
On May 30 2013 08:56 wesbare wrote: ........................ ........................ P.S. I watched the video above of the apparent side-by-side streams watching WCS America, one using a proxy and the other not. I won't pretend I have a working knowledge of proxies as I have never paid for one (I'll look them up I guess), but am I to assume that those streams were viewed simultaneously from the same house, on the same local network, utilizing the same ISP, except that one device (with a static IP?) is connect to a paid-for proxy service while another device is connected without a proxy? Again, I don't know enough about proxies to know whether you can connect one local IP on a network to a proxy, but have another device on the same local network connect without that proxy. Or do proxies redirect traffic on your entire local network?
That's correct. You can use a free proxy or a paid proxy, or better yet a paid VPN. It acts as a middleman that makes what you are doing anonymous. Im not 100% with the order but the theory for this is that by going through the proxy IP your ISP doesn't know its twitch and doesn't throttle. I do believe there could be something wrong on twitches end as well. We know the internet is made up of a series of physical connections, one of the switches they use might be clogged. If you run a trace you can see that there are certain connections that have alot more ping than others and cause lag.
Im pretty positive it is mostly time warner though, because i was able to get Huk's stream to run in 1080p using a proxy. I put 720 or 1080p on without and immediately it will pause video with sound continuing. Then play for a second and pause again (you know, classic twitch lag we are experiencing. When i enable the proxy, it will take a second to load and then play through without lagging.
If you have windows 8, you can see in task manager the network speed constantly dropping, this is the throttling. With the proxy on it will jump higher than before and the dips are less frequent and not as extreme. You can go to YouTube and watch how high your bandwidth goes, then try disabling IP's supposedly used to throttle YOUTUBE. http://mitchribar.com/2013/02/how-to-stop-youtube-sucking-windows-guide/ Then try youtube again and you will see (atleast i did) that when going to buffer your bandwidth will increase quite dramatically when beginning buffering, this is because throttling is disabled. It is known that this fix doesn't work for Twitch.
I was even able to, using another browser, reproduce the results in that youtube video. With Firefox running a proxy and Chrome without.
If you want to experiment with free proxy's visit http://www.freeproxylists.net/. In firefox its quite simple to add one.
Firefox -> options -> Advanced -> network tab -> connection box -> settings -> Bubble Manual proxy settings Put IP in HTTP box along with Port -> check box 'Use this proxy server for all protocols'
Note: -Your mileage may vary.. some proxys work, some don't. -I found one proxy that worked fine the first time i started, but it has since not been working so i'v had to find others. -You may not be able to browse normally while proxy is on.
i once got a chinese 'page cannot be displayed' screen. and when i went to google it went to a Hungarian one haha..
PS: for the record: If it is throttling, like twitch owner and others seem to think. I think its a complete rip off. The logical side of me says, maybe in the contract they reserve the right to throttle in some cases and in some ambiguous language.
but the practical side of me strongly believes that by throttling certain websites we are not getting what we payed for. No different than buying a 10 pound bag of rice with only 7 pounds of rice in it. Its pretty jacked. If you #TWC they have nothing but bad things being said about them.
PS PS: I'm sure lower level tech and service reps would lie about throttling, or that only the senior tech support guys would know about the throttling or admit to it.
On May 30 2013 08:56 wesbare wrote: A TWC tech guy just came to my house to replace my modem. Apparently, I pay for 15/1mpbs, but they have some turbo feature on my package that means I can get significantly over 15 down during non-congested hours (speedtest.net and testmy.net both reported me at 21-23mbps down). Strangely, even before he changed the modem, I could watch twitch streams at 720p with little to no problems, whereas just yesterday I couldn't handle anything above 480p. This was only true for Twitch. Youtube or Dailymotion had no problems with live streams above 480p.
As of right now, only 1080p twitch streams stutter (~once per 3-5 secs), while 720p is running smoothly. I hope it stays that way.
The rumor on this thread, and on the internet at large it seems, is that TWC throttles. The level 3 tech guy from TWC on the phone said that is a false rumor, as did the tech who came to my house. You can say they're lying and I have no real evidence to affirm or deny whether they throttle, but from my end, the problem seems to be Twitch. I can watch SK Planet Proleague live streams on Youtube with no lag. On twitch (as of this past weekend...I have not checked yet today because proleague isn't on right now) I have to watch at 480p to avoid lag. I don't have any reason to blame that on TWC, but it makes sense that Youtube can handle an uncongested number of live viewers on their servers, better than Twitch can handle the thousands of live viewers congesting its servers. Then again, I don't know whether it makes a difference to a server whether it is hosting a live stream (Twitch's primary service) or an archived video (Youtube's primary service). I lack knowledge here.
I have tried the IP range block posted by others in this thread, and it made no visible difference for Twitch (which corroborates Rich's statement above).
P.S. I watched the video above of the apparent side-by-side streams watching WCS America, one using a proxy and the other not. I won't pretend I have a working knowledge of proxies as I have never paid for one (I'll look them up I guess), but am I to assume that those streams were viewed simultaneously from the same house, on the same local network, utilizing the same ISP, except that one device (with a static IP?) is connect to a paid-for proxy service while another device is connected without a proxy? Again, I don't know enough about proxies to know whether you can connect one local IP on a network to a proxy, but have another device on the same local network connect without that proxy. Or do proxies redirect traffic on your entire local network?
I have TWC and at certain times Twitch streams lag at high resolutions unless I've been in the channel before the certain times. TWC sets a priority with Twitch that allows those who have been watching the stream longer to have a better connection to the stream. For example, I can't watch Inside the Game at 1080p/720p if I join in mid stream, but if I load the channel before the stream starts, I can watch it at 1080p.
On May 30 2013 08:56 wesbare wrote: ........................ ........................ P.S. I watched the video above of the apparent side-by-side streams watching WCS America, one using a proxy and the other not. I won't pretend I have a working knowledge of proxies as I have never paid for one (I'll look them up I guess), but am I to assume that those streams were viewed simultaneously from the same house, on the same local network, utilizing the same ISP, except that one device (with a static IP?) is connect to a paid-for proxy service while another device is connected without a proxy? Again, I don't know enough about proxies to know whether you can connect one local IP on a network to a proxy, but have another device on the same local network connect without that proxy. Or do proxies redirect traffic on your entire local network?
That's correct. You can use a free proxy or a paid proxy, or better yet a paid VPN. It acts as a middleman that makes what you are doing anonymous. Im not 100% with the order but the theory for this is that by going through the proxy IP your ISP doesn't know its twitch and doesn't throttle. I do believe there could be something wrong on twitches end as well. We know the internet is made up of a series of physical connections, one of the switches they use might be clogged. If you run a trace you can see that there are certain connections that have alot more ping than others and cause lag.
Im pretty positive it is mostly time warner though, because i was able to get Huk's stream to run in 1080p using a proxy. I put 720 or 1080p on without and immediately it will pause video with sound continuing. Then play for a second and pause again (you know, classic twitch lag we are experiencing. When i enable the proxy, it will take a second to load and then play through without lagging.
If you have windows 8, you can see in task manager the network speed constantly dropping, this is the throttling. With the proxy on it will jump higher than before and the dips are less frequent and not as extreme. You can go to YouTube and watch how high your bandwidth goes, then try disabling IP's supposedly used to throttle YOUTUBE. http://mitchribar.com/2013/02/how-to-stop-youtube-sucking-windows-guide/ Then try youtube again and you will see (atleast i did) that when going to buffer your bandwidth will increase quite dramatically when beginning buffering, this is because throttling is disabled. It is known that this fix doesn't work for Twitch.
I was even able to, using another browser, reproduce the results in that youtube video. With Firefox running a proxy and Chrome without.
If you want to experiment with free proxy's visit http://www.freeproxylists.net/. In firefox its quite simple to add one.
Firefox -> options -> Advanced -> network tab -> connection box -> settings -> Bubble Manual proxy settings Put IP in HTTP box along with Port -> check box 'Use this proxy server for all protocols'
Note: -Your mileage may vary.. some proxys work, some don't. -I found one proxy that worked fine the first time i started, but it has since not been working so i'v had to find others. -You may not be able to browse normally while proxy is on.
i once got a chinese 'page cannot be displayed' screen. and when i went to google it went to a Hungarian one haha..
PS: for the record: If it is throttling, like twitch owner and others seem to think. I think its a complete rip off. The logical side of me says, maybe in the contract they reserve the right to throttle in some cases and in some ambiguous language.
but the practical side of me strongly believes that by throttling certain websites we are not getting what we payed for. No different than buying a 10 pound bag of rice with only 7 pounds of rice in it. Its pretty jacked. If you #TWC they have nothing but bad things being said about them.
PS PS: I'm sure lower level tech and service reps would lie about throttling, or that only the senior tech support guys would know about the throttling or admit to it.
Dude, thank you so much for the proxy list! I couldn't watch any Twitch stream beyond 480p before, but now I can watch them at max resolution! Had to hope around a few proxies to find one which works the best though.
EDIT: Are there any security risks involved in using proxies?
All your data passes through the proxy, so any non-https login sites you use will expose your username and password / session cookies etc to whoever runs the proxy.
On May 13 2013 19:39 bananaconda wrote: This fix is showing mixed results, and regrettably for twitch.tv I have to report that after a couple days of flawless 5hour+ 720p streams being loaded up in 5 minutes, I believe that I'm being rerouted through some throttled servers once again. Apologies to everyone that this isn't working for. I'm am glad that that for some, like @grs, it's giving the intended results. Hock it up with one of those "easy and definitely worth a try" fixes.
@NerdUpgrades Any sort of IP range blocking is done through a firewall. Even if you were to block them via your router it would be done through a firewall function. At least for me it was. I used iptables to save a firewall script in my dd wrt router.
@Cyro I know that for me also that watching live twitch and a vod are two completely different experiences. I can watch live no problem. VODs on the other had (90% of what I like to watch) seem to be stored and streamed from a completely different place. Live twitch goes through ingestion server and then goes right out to viewers, if I have it right.
Thanks for this, it really helped my twitch.tv stream even though it isn't perfect. I wish I found this thread before the WCS finals! Please give us an update if you find anymore toxic ip ranges we should block. Thanks again.
Having this interesting issue with twitch for a few days now. Just started doing it all of a sudden and keeps on doing it. At 720+ i get picture lag every 10 sec or so, for a few sec the picture just stands, sound keeps working fine. On 720 its all fine. Have not changed or installed anything, net is working fine overall.
Having this interesting issue with twitch for a few days now. Just started doing it all of a sudden and keeps on doing it. At 720+ i get picture lag every 10 sec or so, for a few sec the picture just stands, sound keeps working fine. On 720 its all fine. Have not changed or installed anything, net is working fine overall.
That 720+ is the original video that the streamer streams. The 720 video is similar to 480, 360, etc., a video that's reencoded by twitch.tv.
There's a bunch of reasons it will stream differently compared to the original. The reencoded video might come from a different server location than where you got the 720+ stream from. It will usually use lower bandwidth than the 720+ video and look blurrier. If the original is 60 fps, it will also drop down to something like 30 fps.
Sometimes the reverse happens, the original 720+ stream works fine, but the 720, 480, 360, etc. streams are choppy, so you should just try both if there's a problem.
So we finally have youtube streaming for almost everyone and it works for me like a charm (whereas twitch seems to consider me its biggest enemy). Now if someone who doesn't get twitch lag would restream WCS EU/NA on youtube, that would obviously be copyright infrigement - but do you guy think that it they would crack it down or ignore it? Because if there is reasonable expectation that they would let it slide, someone should start doing it, for the sake of all the victims of twitch.
Having this interesting issue with twitch for a few days now. Just started doing it all of a sudden and keeps on doing it. At 720+ i get picture lag every 10 sec or so, for a few sec the picture just stands, sound keeps working fine. On 720 its all fine. Have not changed or installed anything, net is working fine overall.
This is my experience as well for the past few days or so. I was starting to think it's my computer breaking down since I've not experienced this before and it seems to be a problem across most streams for me. To be clear, having the highest resolution on leads to video lagging while the sound is fine.
Having this interesting issue with twitch for a few days now. Just started doing it all of a sudden and keeps on doing it. At 720+ i get picture lag every 10 sec or so, for a few sec the picture just stands, sound keeps working fine. On 720 its all fine. Have not changed or installed anything, net is working fine overall.
Having the exact same issue. And it is not the first time this happened. And it just doesn't seem to go away.
On August 04 2013 20:46 Womwomwom wrote: If you know its copyright infringement then why are you even asking here.
Because the last time I checked, a major part of material on youtube was easily seachable copyrighted material and nobody seemed to do anything about it. But I have no idea how aggresively do they go around closing accounts for streamers for these reasons.