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On January 27 2015 14:24 Cyro wrote: if you wanna pay $100 for gimmicks without improving cpu overclock, sure it's probably good
Do you have one you recommend? Or is that in the OP?
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On January 27 2015 04:21 Cyro wrote: That mobo is not very suitable for overclocking a quad core (it was designed for weak to moderate overclocks on the g3258, which draws less than half of the power of a 4690k at the same voltages), 650w is overkill on the PSU (would personally get 550 for plenty of power for single 980 and everything overclocked), cooling weaker than i like although it would work, slightly tall memory (need to check compatibility with coolers)
also i can't remember the performance of the m550 and if it was better than the mx100.
The 970 is still a good option, but it's not quite what the specs say it is. I still don't think the 980 is worth the money difference, unless you want proprietary nvidia stuff and 3.5GB VRAM ~r9 290 performance isn't enough for you - just because the price difference can be very extreme. You can argue for 970 price over 290 in some places, especially in some cases (it's a no brainer if you want nvenc or if you care about performance in a few games like WoW and Wildstar which are cpu bound and run over 1.5x faster on nvidia driver) but 980 is pretty much just a bigger 970 with ~14% more VRAM, ~20% more performance but costing over 1.5x more.
That price gap has narrowed some with 980's falling a little and 970's rising, but it's still huge, and it's only there as a "haha this is the best single GPU" tax that might not even last long into q2 of this year.
Thanks for the replies!
A few questions:
Why only an i5 processor (instead of i7) but a 980 geforce? Is the graphics card going to be the bottleneck in 2 years?
Crucial m550 256gb read: 550 write: 500 price: 107,90€ Crucial mx100 256gb read: 550 write: 300 price: 110,40€
Is there something im missing? Why would I pick the mx100?
You mentioned the cooling being weak. What would you prefer? Noctua NH-D14? Thats the one that gets mentioned alot.
The mobo is not suited for overclocking? If I can get another 5-20% out of overclocking, I'd certainly do it. Whats your recommendation?
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On January 27 2015 18:36 Hirosh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 27 2015 04:21 Cyro wrote: That mobo is not very suitable for overclocking a quad core (it was designed for weak to moderate overclocks on the g3258, which draws less than half of the power of a 4690k at the same voltages), 650w is overkill on the PSU (would personally get 550 for plenty of power for single 980 and everything overclocked), cooling weaker than i like although it would work, slightly tall memory (need to check compatibility with coolers)
also i can't remember the performance of the m550 and if it was better than the mx100.
The 970 is still a good option, but it's not quite what the specs say it is. I still don't think the 980 is worth the money difference, unless you want proprietary nvidia stuff and 3.5GB VRAM ~r9 290 performance isn't enough for you - just because the price difference can be very extreme. You can argue for 970 price over 290 in some places, especially in some cases (it's a no brainer if you want nvenc or if you care about performance in a few games like WoW and Wildstar which are cpu bound and run over 1.5x faster on nvidia driver) but 980 is pretty much just a bigger 970 with ~14% more VRAM, ~20% more performance but costing over 1.5x more.
That price gap has narrowed some with 980's falling a little and 970's rising, but it's still huge, and it's only there as a "haha this is the best single GPU" tax that might not even last long into q2 of this year. Thanks for the replies! A few questions: Why only an i5 processor (instead of i7) but a 980 geforce? Is the graphics card going to be the bottleneck in 2 years? Crucial m550 256gb read: 550 write: 500 price: 107,90€ Crucial mx100 256gb read: 550 write: 300 price: 110,40€ Is there something im missing? Why would I pick the mx100? You mentioned the cooling being weak. What would you prefer? Noctua NH-D14? Thats the one that gets mentioned alot. The mobo is not suited for overclocking? If I can get another 5-20% out of overclocking, I'd certainly do it. Whats your recommendation?
The majority of games do not utilize more than four cores so it is not worth it to spend $100+ to get an i7 instead of the i5.
M550 is a bit better than the MX100. MX100 is newer (meant to replace the M500) and generally less expensive, that's why it's a popular option although in your case, go with the M550.
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On January 27 2015 20:53 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2015 18:36 Hirosh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 27 2015 04:21 Cyro wrote: That mobo is not very suitable for overclocking a quad core (it was designed for weak to moderate overclocks on the g3258, which draws less than half of the power of a 4690k at the same voltages), 650w is overkill on the PSU (would personally get 550 for plenty of power for single 980 and everything overclocked), cooling weaker than i like although it would work, slightly tall memory (need to check compatibility with coolers)
also i can't remember the performance of the m550 and if it was better than the mx100.
The 970 is still a good option, but it's not quite what the specs say it is. I still don't think the 980 is worth the money difference, unless you want proprietary nvidia stuff and 3.5GB VRAM ~r9 290 performance isn't enough for you - just because the price difference can be very extreme. You can argue for 970 price over 290 in some places, especially in some cases (it's a no brainer if you want nvenc or if you care about performance in a few games like WoW and Wildstar which are cpu bound and run over 1.5x faster on nvidia driver) but 980 is pretty much just a bigger 970 with ~14% more VRAM, ~20% more performance but costing over 1.5x more.
That price gap has narrowed some with 980's falling a little and 970's rising, but it's still huge, and it's only there as a "haha this is the best single GPU" tax that might not even last long into q2 of this year. Thanks for the replies! A few questions: Why only an i5 processor (instead of i7) but a 980 geforce? Is the graphics card going to be the bottleneck in 2 years? Crucial m550 256gb read: 550 write: 500 price: 107,90€ Crucial mx100 256gb read: 550 write: 300 price: 110,40€ Is there something im missing? Why would I pick the mx100? You mentioned the cooling being weak. What would you prefer? Noctua NH-D14? Thats the one that gets mentioned alot. The mobo is not suited for overclocking? If I can get another 5-20% out of overclocking, I'd certainly do it. Whats your recommendation? The majority of games do not utilize more than four cores so it is not worth it to spend $100+ to get an i7 instead of the i5. M550 is a bit better than the MX100. MX100 is newer (meant to replace the M500) and generally less expensive, that's why it's a popular option although in your case, go with the M550.
Is computer only for gaming? If not, I don't see why you should just stick with 4 cores. As soon as you decide to keep your favourite web browser running, winamp or Youtube and maybe streaming, you'll regret sticking to 4 cores. People should really think about background processes more.
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Hello,
I have an Upgrade Query
What is your current build?
GFX: GTX 470 1280MB Processor: Intel Core i7 930 2.80GHz (Bloomfield) Mobo: Asus P6X58D-E Intel X58 DDR3 RAM: Corsair XMS3 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 Power Supply: Corsair TX 650W ATX HDD: 1TB SATA-II 32MB Cache Case: Antec 300 Three Hundred Ultimate Gaming Case
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080
Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade?
My current build is starting to show its age, I originally built this in July 2010. I would like to be able to run demanding future releases, on high/med settings, for as long as possible.
I wasn't sure if I should be looking to overhaul my system and start from scratch or if I potentially have some parts that could be used in a new build.
What is your budget?
~£1,000
What country will you be buying your parts in?
UK - England
If you have any brand or retailer preferences, please specify.
Preferably Intel & Nvidia
Thanks in advance for your help
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Has anyone had experience buying motherboards from Ebay and shipping them internationally?
Bad idea?
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On January 28 2015 04:53 darkness wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 27 2015 20:53 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2015 18:36 Hirosh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 27 2015 04:21 Cyro wrote: That mobo is not very suitable for overclocking a quad core (it was designed for weak to moderate overclocks on the g3258, which draws less than half of the power of a 4690k at the same voltages), 650w is overkill on the PSU (would personally get 550 for plenty of power for single 980 and everything overclocked), cooling weaker than i like although it would work, slightly tall memory (need to check compatibility with coolers)
also i can't remember the performance of the m550 and if it was better than the mx100.
The 970 is still a good option, but it's not quite what the specs say it is. I still don't think the 980 is worth the money difference, unless you want proprietary nvidia stuff and 3.5GB VRAM ~r9 290 performance isn't enough for you - just because the price difference can be very extreme. You can argue for 970 price over 290 in some places, especially in some cases (it's a no brainer if you want nvenc or if you care about performance in a few games like WoW and Wildstar which are cpu bound and run over 1.5x faster on nvidia driver) but 980 is pretty much just a bigger 970 with ~14% more VRAM, ~20% more performance but costing over 1.5x more.
That price gap has narrowed some with 980's falling a little and 970's rising, but it's still huge, and it's only there as a "haha this is the best single GPU" tax that might not even last long into q2 of this year. Thanks for the replies! A few questions: Why only an i5 processor (instead of i7) but a 980 geforce? Is the graphics card going to be the bottleneck in 2 years? Crucial m550 256gb read: 550 write: 500 price: 107,90€ Crucial mx100 256gb read: 550 write: 300 price: 110,40€ Is there something im missing? Why would I pick the mx100? You mentioned the cooling being weak. What would you prefer? Noctua NH-D14? Thats the one that gets mentioned alot. The mobo is not suited for overclocking? If I can get another 5-20% out of overclocking, I'd certainly do it. Whats your recommendation? The majority of games do not utilize more than four cores so it is not worth it to spend $100+ to get an i7 instead of the i5. M550 is a bit better than the MX100. MX100 is newer (meant to replace the M500) and generally less expensive, that's why it's a popular option although in your case, go with the M550. Is computer only for gaming? If not, I don't see why you should just stick with 4 cores. As soon as you decide to keep your favourite web browser running, winamp or Youtube and maybe streaming, you'll regret sticking to 4 cores. People should really think about background processes more.
The number of cores is not relevant to playing music or browsing. Unless your browser is actively doing something, having 10000000 tabs in the background requires little to no CPU resources. If you care about browsing, you would be wise to spend the money on RAM instead of an i7.
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United Kingdom20157 Posts
On January 27 2015 14:29 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2015 14:24 Cyro wrote: if you wanna pay $100 for gimmicks without improving cpu overclock, sure it's probably good Do you have one you recommend? Or is that in the OP?
Maybe this one - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=138_1491&products_id=27547
Why only an i5 processor (instead of i7) but a 980 geforce? Is the graphics card going to be the bottleneck in 2 years?
Because the main feature (and usually only one that makes a real difference) between i5 and i7 is Hyperthreading; usually, when utilized well, that can provide a ~20% performance increase. For some niche loads like Cinema 4d, it can be more like a 25-30% gain. For most games though and many tasks, it doesn't help performance at all (they would need to scale well onto 6-8 threads) and not only does it cost a huge amount more, you have to run lower overclocks to compensate for the added heat that there would be if you were running a load that benefited from hyperthreading.
So i5 vs i7, for a task that's good for i7 such as video encoding - 20% gain, but reduced to ~15-18% because of loss of OC.
If you compare a gtx680 to a 980, the 980 is literally near 100% faster. Performance gaps between GPU's are much bigger, and GPU performance for a regular consumer is advancing much faster.
For a lot of EU/UK people, my go-to cooler recommendation ATM is the Thermalright HR-02 macho rev. B; it's weaker than the high end air coolers but still very strong, quite affordable (~42 euros) and the new fan does ~300-1300RPM so it's literally inaudible against any case fans that you will have unless it's under load (where it's quiet still, but high performing). Their True Spirit 140 Power (note the power edition) is very good too, as is the silver arrow at higher price point; there are reasons to take other coolers at their price points, but overall you can buy any of those three confidently and it will never really be a bad choice for the money paid - aside from maybe aesthetically depending on your build, as long as they fit in the case.
With OC you would expect to gain ~18-25% performance over stock+turbo boosting CPU, but since you're making your cores faster instead of relying on hyperthreading or extra cores, that performance gain applies in a much more widespread way, pretty much everything that relies on CPU would get faster.
Is computer only for gaming? If not, I don't see why you should just stick with 4 cores. As soon as you decide to keep your favourite web browser running, winamp or Youtube and maybe streaming, you'll regret sticking to 4 cores. People should really think about background processes more.
I have addressed this before. Youtube in particular can use an annoying amount of CPU, but that's true on any CPU. A media player playing FLAC audio will use a fraction of a percentage of your CPU (under 1%) and a web browser, idling with a bunch of tabs open, will use even less. Putting a secondary load on your CPU would mean something like live encoding in the background (for dumping on local storage and/or streaming over the internet) for example, and not these everyday tasks that any modern processor can laugh at while idling at 800mhz.
Every time i hear this i wonder what kind of unoptimized crap you people are running for it to make a dent at all on your system. Here's mine:
0.35% CPU from playing FLAC. Firefox with a dozen tabs is open, too, and onscreen (second screen).
A 4690k at those clocks will handle running 8 seperate programs so much better than an fx6300 that it's not even a competition (around as well as a 9590), and going above 4 cores with a CPU that's better than a 4690k means an 5820k with ddr4 and x99 which is extremely expensive by comparison
Why FX is bad: + Show Spoiler +You would think that 8 threads on fx8320-9590 would make it better at dealing with 8 seperate tasks, but it's just not really the case. It behaves more like a four core CPU with 8 threads, and a weak one at that. One module (2 threads) is roughly as strong as one Haswell core, especially at somewhat comparable clocks but slight advantage to fx (Piledriver can OC a little bit higher)
A 4690k running WoW gets 100% performance from 3 cores. Adding fourth does nothing.
If you play the same game (heavy load on one thread, significant load on a second thread) on FX, then it doesn't take you three threads any more. It takes you three whole modules (75% of an fx8320-9590) before you stop seeing performance gains, and when you're there dedicating six threads instead of three, your overall performance is still only two thirds of that of the Haswell quad core.
The 8320 has a place, but it's not on an expensive gaming system just because you feel like running a media player, browser, skype and some other stuff in the background, and it never will be. The fx6300 excels over the g3258 when applying real background loads like live encoding because it has three modules against only 2 cores, an advantage that the 2-module CPU doesn't have over 2-core, and the 4-module CPU's don't have over 4-core. The more expensive fx 8-threaded CPU's have no place for a gaming system of any value IMO, and that's a very strong opinion with way too much backing it up to even fit on one page of a TL thread
The number of cores is not relevant to playing music or browsing. Unless your browser is actively doing something, having 10000000 tabs in the background requires little to no CPU resources. If you care about browsing, you would be wise to spend the money on RAM instead of an i7.
Indeed i have a browser fiend friend who measures his tabs with a three and sometimes four digit number and he just wants 32-64GB of RAM. CPU load is still small.
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United Kingdom20157 Posts
On January 28 2015 06:00 Mindfield wrote:Hello, I have an Upgrade Query What is your current build?GFX: GTX 470 1280MB Processor: Intel Core i7 930 2.80GHz (Bloomfield) Mobo: Asus P6X58D-E Intel X58 DDR3 RAM: Corsair XMS3 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 Power Supply: Corsair TX 650W ATX HDD: 1TB SATA-II 32MB Cache Case: Antec 300 Three Hundred Ultimate Gaming Case What is your monitor's native resolution?1920x1080 Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade?My current build is starting to show its age, I originally built this in July 2010. I would like to be able to run demanding future releases, on high/med settings, for as long as possible. I wasn't sure if I should be looking to overhaul my system and start from scratch or if I potentially have some parts that could be used in a new build. What is your budget?~£1,000 What country will you be buying your parts in?UK - England If you have any brand or retailer preferences, please specify.Preferably Intel & Nvidia Thanks in advance for your help
Is your current CPU overclocked? Are you up for doing CPU overclocking, with appropriate hardware?
WHAT IS OVERCLOCKING? back to top
Overclocking means making a component run faster than the speed it was sold at by the manufacturer.
Is overclocking safe? Yes it is as long as you do it correctly. This means buying good components, following instructions, applying some common sense, and not being careless. Simply increasing the clock speed without increasing the voltage will not damage the component. The worst case scenario is that the component will be unstable, in which case you will just need to reset the settings.
On the contrary if you do it incorrectly by not applying common sense, inputting random values, and not checking your values. It may result in a shorter lifespan or permanent damage for the component that is being overclocked. Overclocking a processor on a low-end AMD motherboard is not suggested.
Does overclocking reduce lifespan? The two things that are detrimental to components is excessive heat and voltage. As long as both are kept in check, the effects of overclocking on lifespan is negligible. To put it simply, another component is more likely to die before an moderately overclocked processor and you'll be wanting a new computer long before the processor dies.
Why overclock? The biggest reason why individuals overclock is because it is a free performance increase with relative ease. Many video card brands include their own overclocking software with their cards which allow you to overclock simply by inputting a value or moving the slider. Overclocking without increasing the voltage does not void the warranty. Most motherboard brands also include overclocking software and overclock buttons with some of their motherboards to make the process easier. However, most enthusiasts still strongly suggest overclocking manually through the UEFI / BIOS to achieve the best results.
Other reasons include it being fun, getting a bit more oomph out of aging components, and because it is deemed necessary for some games and tasks.
Also, you didn't say you had an ssd; do you want one? What size? (128-256GB is quite affordable these days, i think £90 or so for good 256)
With that kind of budget, one could say i7 4790k + gtx980, but i think i5 4690k + 970 is much more solid use of money
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@ skyR: thanks for your input. I'll stick with the m550.
@ cyro: thanks for clarifying regarding i5 vs i7 - I'll stick with an i5. Coolingwise I'll go with the Thermalright HR-02 macho rev. B over a noctua. Why spent an extra 40 Euro for no real gain.
The only thing thats left open for me now is the mobo.
You recommended a mobo for DarthPunk: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=138_1491&products_id=27547
Would this be suitable for me as well? Or do you think another one is better in my situation?
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United Kingdom20157 Posts
The d14 (and especially d15) are stronger than the macho, but bigger and more expensive. The competing product from thermalright at that level of cooling performance is the silver arrow (though they're not that much better, outside of more extreme situations)
I hate motherboard recommendations sorry because it's quite hard to keep track of all of the small differences and quantify other stuff like better/worse VRM
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What is your budget?
$1250
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
GTA 5, Watch Dogs. High settings
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
3d max, photoshop,illustrator
Do you intend to overclock?
No.
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
No.
Do you need an operating system?
No.
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
No.
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
No.
What country will you be buying your parts in?
Prices in my country are pretty parallel with US prices (without special offers etc.) so, you can just pick parts and I will see what comes here.
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[Edit: Original list] + Show Spoiler +
[Edit: Updated] + Show Spoiler +
Would something like this last for couple of years? Looking to max out graphics while maintaining 60-120 fps on current games. I was also looking at possibility of doing SLI with double 970, but as I don't have monitor that supports 4k, that is most likely not worth the money. I have done overclocking in the past and will plan on doing so on the new system as well.
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United Kingdom20157 Posts
Yea, a 970/290 is pretty good for 1080p60.
I would make some changes:
better CPU cooler (i wrote a bit about coolers on this page)
fast RAM (like ~2133c9, 2400c10 - it usually costs only like 10 euros more, but makes an FPS difference equal to gaining ~200mhz on CPU in a few game engines)
not an 840 evo SSD, because that one has an issue with file read speed slowing down over time. There was a fix from samsung, but it didn't work for a lot of people. The Crucial M550 and MX100 are good.
Two seperate 1TB HDD's? Usually cheaper to get a single 2-3TB if you're buying that much storage
I would buy either a 450w PSU for single GPU, or 650-750w unit (with four pci-e 6+2 pin connectors and one 12v rail) for SLI, assuming everything OC'd to max
For 970's, the Gigabyte G1 is the best (excluding probably the HOF which is usually too high priced to consider), followed by the MSI 970 gaming, the other gigabyte 970 (regular windforce edition) and then some other cards. Strix is pretty good but it has a restrictive power limit and it's voltage locked somewhere around 1.2v, while the g1 and msi gaming 970 can do 1.25 with less restrictive power limits
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Updated my original post with adjusted part list. Cyro, thanks for helping out!
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United Kingdom20157 Posts
The macho 120 is a lot weaker than the hr-02 macho, also RAM with tall heatspreaders (functionally useless) can block big CPU heatsinks so it's best to avoid them
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This thread is so great I have been following along for a bit now and learning a lot as I get ready to build my new PC at the end of Feb. I have never built one from scratch but have upgraded a few different ones. I am ready for some more detailed plans now and would love a base set up so I can compare and double check upgrading costs/benefits before the actual ordering. I would like a good motherboard and power source to last for years.
What is your budget? $1000-$1200 CAD
What is your monitor's native resolution? Buying new monitors at 1080p 60Hz unless I get talked into 4k or 120Hz
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? New games on high (not necessarily ultra) settings.
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Browsing the internet... a little basic video editing
Do you intend to overclock? Maybe turn up the processor a bit without upping the voltage. I have never overclocked before so not really but am open to advice. It looks like most people aren't using the stock heat sink with quad i5s(which i assume is what I want) so if I'm investing in another heat sink seems like no reason not to turn it up a bit? If that makes sense.
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No so I think i'm looking at buying a 4Gb card now to last? Using it mostly for gaming I expect a lot of the budget to go here.
Do you need an operating system? Was planning on downloading cracked Win 7 again but I'm not sure about new driver updates causing problems or something. Maybe make the jump to Win 8.1 / ask friends if they can get free through school. Looking for advice here too.
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? Will be buying 2 24" 1080p 60Hz IPS monitors hopefully $200ish each? Looking for recommendations. Not included in budget. Also open to keyboard recommendations but I'm pretty keen on filco and will probably be using my old keyboard for a while after buying the comp.
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. Was originally pretty excited for DDR4 but I can't really justify the massive price break in motherboard and RAM. Could always get 2x4Gb now and add 2x 4Gb later. Buying to last I don't know enough to say that the mother board will actually keep up longer if i get DDR4 because maybe the CPU socket is what will become outdated first kinda thing.
I don't need much secondary storage because i already have a big USB3 external but maybe 512Gb would be nice. I am pretty set on getting a 250Gb SSD but open to advice and considering 512Gb but it doesn't stack up nicely against my budget.
Case must be sexy.
What country will you be buying your parts in? Canada
I appreciate any answers to all the questions I have scattered through my "requirements" as well as any advice you guys can offer. I have done so much research but still don't feel closer to making a concrete decision so I thought this could help. I will definitely be posting my build here either way before I order as I have seen countless examples where you guys have provided last min improvements/money saving suggestions.
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^ Don't hesitate, Windows 8.1 is great for performance, especially with an SSD which should also run fine on Windows 7. If you don't care about interface, then I don't see a reason not to use it.
What is your budget? Up to £1,500 (I can add extra £100 if it's really worth it)
What is your monitor's native resolution? None, need a monitor as well.
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? StarCraft 2 but with still an option to try out recently released games.
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Programming (Eclipse/Visual Studio), experimental virtual servers (e.g. VMWare) and typical user tasks.
Do you intend to overclock? No, but it would be nice if it is an available option in case I need it.
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No, unless there is a really good reason.
Do you need an operating system? No.
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? Yes, monitor is part of my budget. I'm not sure about size, but do you think at least 21-24" is enough? I may also need Wi-Fi support as router is in a different room. I can also get a long LAN cable but it'll be nice to rely on both.
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. 6 cores Intel i7 CPU in order to run new software/stuff smoothly in the near future, NVIDIA graphics card.
What country will you be buying your parts in? United Kingdom
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. None, but it may be necessary if I need to receive delivery only on Saturday or Sunday. Anyway, I'll figure it out.
What I have planned so far This is a build I've come up with: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/4mVCK8 Do you think it's alright or can it be made better? In particular, my choices for the following components are a bit random: CPU cooler, Case, Power Supply.
I have a 2.5" SSD for my laptop so I'm still considering whether to port it for desktop. I think it'll be wise to add a 1 TB hard disk in the meantime.
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On January 29 2015 04:26 darkness wrote: ^ Don't hesitate, Windows 8.1 is great for performance, especially with an SSD which should also run fine on Windows 7. If you don't care about interface, then I don't see a reason not to use it.
It is the interface I care about. Would take a bit of getting used to but I understand i have to get it eventually.
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