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Hello,
I get that this topic comes up a lot, so I'm a bit sorry for creating my own topic on the matter. I had a few questions and wanted some help.
I'm getting my PC replaced and here are the specs:
- Windows 7 64-bit
- 8gigs of Ram
- Intel Core i7 4790k
- GTX 970 4gigs
I already figured out the best server thanks to R1CH: JTVPing and it is Stockholm, Sweden. My speed is about 100/25 (maybe 50/50 when I move into a new place):
I had a few questions so I don't sound completely stupid, though I am unsure of the settings I would need to really take advantage of this system:
- Should I turn hyperthreading on?
- Is it better to turn on my VPN and set it to Denmark or Sweden or just leave it as is
- What would be the optimal settings? I don't think I can stream 1080p, so 720p at 48 FPS is good?
- The max bitrate is the confusing part for me as I always had shit upload, but now I have an incredible amount but need to keep it at a certain rate for viewers. Would 3,500 be good?
- Would changing the x264 CPU preset from veryfast (and in which direction) improve the quality or it's a waste of time?
- Same thing with CBR/CBR Padding and Filter (Bilinear?)
Not sure what else to ask, I will probably buy a microphone as well as I hate Steelseries headsets and I get a lot of feedback/white noise in the background, any suggestions there (Yeti? Blue Snowball?)?
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United Kingdom20145 Posts
Should I turn hyperthreading on?
Yes, that's the only benefit worth mentioning like 98% of the time from getting quad core i7 instead of quad core i5
no VPN
1080p30 / 720p60
yes, twitch does not even allow higher than 3500kbit and they force you to use CBR
yes, towards ~Medium preset, but you can't do that on stock CPU especially at any kind of taxing resolution or FPS. I use it sometimes for less taxing res/fps, but it's something like 3x the CPU load for a 20% advantage in quality per pit iirc
CBR/CBR Padding mandatory on for twitch, and you should use a downscale resolution that you can scale with Lanczos
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On December 14 2014 23:09 Cyro wrote:Yes, that's the only benefit worth mentioning like 98% of the time from getting quad core i7 instead of quad core i5 no VPN 1080p30 / 720p60 yes, twitch does not even allow higher than 3500kbit and they force you to use CBR yes, towards ~Medium preset, but you can't do that on stock CPU especially at any kind of taxing resolution or FPS. I use it sometimes for less taxing res/fps, but it's something like 3x the CPU load for a 20% advantage in quality per pit iirc CBR/CBR Padding mandatory on for twitch, and you should use a downscale resolution that you can scale with Lanczos
1. Ah, well I guess that's the upside of the predicament ^^
2. roger
3. Since I'm not partnered on Twitch, there's no point in going 1080p30, but I thought 720p60 was a waste because no one can even see 60fps anyways and that 48 was the same, just less sweat
4. Okay, 3500 it is
5. I'll keep it at Faster then?
6. Does the filter matter? Like if I put bicubic or bilinear?
Also, mic suggestion or is there a separate topic for that?
Man, you are pretty stellar in the Tech Support Forum. You and Slardar and the other guys!
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United Kingdom20145 Posts
3. Since I'm not partnered on Twitch, there's no point in going 1080p30, but I thought 720p60 was a waste because no one can even see 60fps anyways and that 48 was the same, just less sweat
1080p30/720p60 are pretty similar for encoding and bitrate requirements.
60 was a waste because no one can even see 60fps anyways and that 48 was the same
That's.. not how it works. Don't fall for the console marketing mindset of "well we can't really run at these framerates or resolutions without being a decade behind in graphical effects, let's try to convince everyone that it's irrelevant"
you can use 48 for less CPU load and better quality per frame, but worse quality of motion etc than 60fps. There's not that much reason just to use 60 at 720p (but at 1080p, which is 2.25x higher res, trying to use 60fps or even 30fps on 3500kbit of bitrate is often very ugly)
6. Does the filter matter? Like if I put bicubic or bilinear?
and you should use a downscale resolution that you can scale with Lanczos
1.5x downscale per axis (1080p to 720p) and 2x downscale per axis (1080p to 540p) both let you select Lanczos filter and work pretty well with it, so just stick to those resolutions
You can use a lower bitrate than 3500 if people can't watch (~2000-2500 should be fine) but it's usually fine in my experience, with ~7/1 adsl i could watch two max quality twitch stream simultaneously so it should work unless there is a routing issue or just terrible terrible worse-than-adsl1 tier internet. Since very few people watch my stream, when i do stream it's occasionally at like 540p120fps for recording and those friends using 144hz (OBS give >120fps option pls! I want 1:1 FPS to refresh rate option, and higher FPS if possible for analysis of some stuff with slowmo)
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On December 15 2014 01:57 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +3. Since I'm not partnered on Twitch, there's no point in going 1080p30, but I thought 720p60 was a waste because no one can even see 60fps anyways and that 48 was the same, just less sweat 1080p30/720p60 are pretty similar for encoding and bitrate requirements. Show nested quote +60 was a waste because no one can even see 60fps anyways and that 48 was the same That's.. not how it works. Don't fall for the console marketing mindset of "well we can't really run at these framerates or resolutions without being a decade behind in graphical effects, let's try to convince everyone that it's irrelevant" you can use 48 for less CPU load and better quality per frame, but worse quality of motion etc than 60fps. There's not that much reason just to use 60 at 720p (but at 1080p, which is 2.25x higher res, trying to use 60fps or even 30fps on 3500kbit of bitrate is often very ugly) 1.5x downscale per axis (1080p to 720p) and 2x downscale per axis (1080p to 540p) both let you select Lanczos filter and work pretty well with it, so just stick to those resolutions You can use a lower bitrate than 3500 if people can't watch (~2000-2500 should be fine) but it's usually fine in my experience, with ~7/1 adsl i could watch two max quality twitch stream simultaneously so it should work unless there is a routing issue or just terrible terrible worse-than-adsl1 tier internet. Since very few people watch my stream, when i do stream it's occasionally at like 540p120fps for recording and those friends using 144hz (OBS give >120fps option pls! I want 1:1 FPS to refresh rate option, and higher FPS if possible for analysis of some stuff with slowmo)
Okay, done on the 720p 60fps (can't do 1080p without partnership anyways)
I thought someone here on TL said 48 was pretty much the same or something. I can't recall now but I'll trust you.
Yeah, the lanczos thing confused, thought you were referencing another program or something. I'll just stick with the resolution downscale of 1.5 and the filter to Bilinear!
Had no idea you streamed! Your PC must be beastly@!
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United Kingdom20145 Posts
Okay, done on the 720p 60fps (can't do 1080p without partnership anyways)
Why not? AFAIK there's no reason in particular. It's just that people using 720p60/1080p30+ often use that 3500kbit instead of the ~1750-2250kbit that some others like to use for non partnered stream to not lock out the people with really really terrible internet (or routing issues)
And 540p@120fps is no more hard on CPU than ~1080@30 (i use oc'd 4770k) + Show Spoiler +not bad to look at, this pic is old though (pre-970)
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On December 15 2014 03:12 Cyro wrote:Why not? AFAIK there's no reason in particular. It's just that people using 720p60/1080p30+ often use that 3500kbit instead of the ~1750-2250kbit that some others like to use for non partnered stream to not lock out the people with really really terrible internet (or routing issues) And 540p@120fps is no more hard on CPU than ~1080@30 (i use oc'd 4770k) + Show Spoiler +not bad to look at, this pic is old though (pre-970)
I thought Twitch basically downgraded your stream to 720p if you didn't have a partnership, so even if you streamed 1080p, it would appear 720p anyways, thus a waste of time.
I can do 1080p 30, not sure if 30fps is enough anyways (I might do some singleplayer, Dota 2, StarCraft II later, etc. haven't really figured out that far yet lol).
Nice dreamcatcher and wow, that pc looks monster
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United Kingdom20145 Posts
Nah twitch doesn't touch your stuff, they only provide the source stream if you're not a partner though. I use Hitbox these days because twitch delay is like four times longer (but Thalandros has some weird setup on twitch where he literally has a 3 second delay (timed with clock), and that's without advanced configuration with encoder etc which might be able to shave another second off that, so i am very very interested there)
ty~
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On December 15 2014 03:29 Cyro wrote:Nah twitch doesn't touch your stuff, they only provide the source stream if you're not a partner though. I use Hitbox these days because twitch delay is like four times longer (but Thalandros has some weird setup on twitch where he literally has a 3 second delay (timed with clock), and that's without advanced configuration with encoder etc which might be able to shave another second off that, so i am very very interested there) ty~
I was thinking of talking to Azubu or Dailymotion, but I'll wait until something is discussed (which I doubt). So the max I can is what? 1080 30fps? Not bad, I'll do that then! I see BF4 streams have insane quality and I always wonder how they pull it off. I think the parts come in tomorrow so by Tuesday I can try stuff out!
Destiny does 1080p 60fps which is just nuts
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United Kingdom20145 Posts
Quality is mostly down to bitrate, you can tweak settings but there's only so much that you can do. Also for a game like bf4, if you're trying to get the most FPS possible it will hit your CPU hard on many cores, but if you're running the game at high graphics and low FPS then the CPU isn't challenged as much (because 60fps is much easier than 150 for it)
with 970 you can use also use nvenc (onboard encoder) if CPU is at all an issue for games like that and laugh at everything, the quality per bit isn't nearly as good as x264 but the version on the 970/980 is better than earlier revisions and can do 4k@60fps with no CPU load and very little performance hit on the game. Unfortunately OBS doesn't seem to support any kind of bitrate control at high framerates though (it all breaks and ignores what you set if you try to record at 120fps with nvenc )
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On December 15 2014 03:38 Cyro wrote:Quality is mostly down to bitrate, you can tweak settings but there's only so much that you can do. Also for a game like bf4, if you're trying to get the most FPS possible it will hit your CPU hard on many cores, but if you're running the game at high graphics and low FPS then the CPU isn't challenged as much (because 60fps is much easier than 150 for it) with 970 you can use also use nvenc (onboard encoder) if CPU is at all an issue for games like that and laugh at everything, the quality per bit isn't nearly as good as x264 but the version on the 970/980 is better than earlier revisions and can do 4k@60fps with no CPU load and very little performance hit on the game. Unfortunately OBS doesn't seem to support any kind of bitrate control at high framerates though (it all breaks and ignores what you set if you try to record at 120fps with nvenc )
I was just using BF4 as an example. I see people with insane fluid gameplay and I figured if I can stream that, I can stream anything
I think for action and RPGs, I'll stream 1080p, 48fps, but for FPS games, I'll do 720p 60 fps
I saw the nvenc option and was going to look into it, it definitely looks like a better option and avoid any fear of CPU usage, but almost no one writes about it.
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United Kingdom20145 Posts
On December 15 2014 18:20 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2014 03:38 Cyro wrote:Quality is mostly down to bitrate, you can tweak settings but there's only so much that you can do. Also for a game like bf4, if you're trying to get the most FPS possible it will hit your CPU hard on many cores, but if you're running the game at high graphics and low FPS then the CPU isn't challenged as much (because 60fps is much easier than 150 for it) with 970 you can use also use nvenc (onboard encoder) if CPU is at all an issue for games like that and laugh at everything, the quality per bit isn't nearly as good as x264 but the version on the 970/980 is better than earlier revisions and can do 4k@60fps with no CPU load and very little performance hit on the game. Unfortunately OBS doesn't seem to support any kind of bitrate control at high framerates though (it all breaks and ignores what you set if you try to record at 120fps with nvenc ) I was just using BF4 as an example. I see people with insane fluid gameplay and I figured if I can stream that, I can stream anything I think for action and RPGs, I'll stream 1080p, 48fps, but for FPS games, I'll do 720p 60 fps I saw the nvenc option and was going to look into it, it definitely looks like a better option and avoid any fear of CPU usage, but almost no one writes about it.
Most people access it with the very kid-friendly Shadowplay controls (i just use OBS because nvidia controls lack some very important, basic functions)
Best to use CPU encoding when you can, but NVENC on gm204 (970/980) is really damn good when you don't want that CPU load, you don't mind using higher bitrates for the same quality or you just want to game without realizing that you're actually recording anything~ (:
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On December 15 2014 18:48 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2014 18:20 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 15 2014 03:38 Cyro wrote:Quality is mostly down to bitrate, you can tweak settings but there's only so much that you can do. Also for a game like bf4, if you're trying to get the most FPS possible it will hit your CPU hard on many cores, but if you're running the game at high graphics and low FPS then the CPU isn't challenged as much (because 60fps is much easier than 150 for it) with 970 you can use also use nvenc (onboard encoder) if CPU is at all an issue for games like that and laugh at everything, the quality per bit isn't nearly as good as x264 but the version on the 970/980 is better than earlier revisions and can do 4k@60fps with no CPU load and very little performance hit on the game. Unfortunately OBS doesn't seem to support any kind of bitrate control at high framerates though (it all breaks and ignores what you set if you try to record at 120fps with nvenc ) I was just using BF4 as an example. I see people with insane fluid gameplay and I figured if I can stream that, I can stream anything I think for action and RPGs, I'll stream 1080p, 48fps, but for FPS games, I'll do 720p 60 fps I saw the nvenc option and was going to look into it, it definitely looks like a better option and avoid any fear of CPU usage, but almost no one writes about it. Most people access it with the very kid-friendly Shadowplay controls (i just use OBS because nvidia controls lack some very important, basic functions) Best to use CPU encoding when you can, but NVENC on gm204 (970/980) is really damn good when you don't want that CPU load, you don't mind using higher bitrates for the same quality or you just want to game without realizing that you're actually recording anything~ (:
We can try NVENC. I'll have an overpowered amount of internet (I'm trying for 100/100 in my apartment), so I don't mind the extra bitrate as long as it doesn't hurt my ping in-game.
What do you think? We can try it out!
Any thoughts on Azubu? My friend is asking me to try out their system.
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United Kingdom20145 Posts
Have not heard of anyone using Azubu, it's usually huge swarm of people on Twitch and small swarm of people trying to get away from Twitch using Hitbox
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On December 15 2014 19:18 Cyro wrote: Have not heard of anyone using Azubu, it's usually huge swarm of people on Twitch and small swarm of people trying to get away from Twitch using Hitbox
I guess we'll see. Is setting up NVENC done through OBS or do I have to scour the earth for a tutorial?
I fear we might be getting ahead of ourselves as I dont have the parts in yet :x
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United Kingdom20145 Posts
It's pretty easy to configure in OBS
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Just got the PC, going to plug it in and test it tonight!
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even at 1080p, it doesnt look 1080p
720p works good at 60fps, but I tihnk twitch limits resolution
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United Kingdom20145 Posts
1080p is a measure of resolution, not quality. Twitch doesn't limit resolution - and to view a 1080p stream on a 1080p screen, you have to fullscreen it~ benefit from streaming at that resolution is not having to upscale when viewing at that resolution, and you need your whole screen to be able to see an unscaled 1080p stream
If you want higher quality than default when in static or low motion scenes, you can manually edit settings but 3500kbit is a tiny bitrate for 1080p (3x that would be nicer) so quality when scene is in motion would suffer
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On December 20 2014 06:56 Cyro wrote: 1080p is a measure of resolution, not quality. Twitch doesn't limit resolution - and to view a 1080p stream on a 1080p screen, you have to fullscreen it~ benefit from streaming at that resolution is not having to upscale when viewing at that resolution, and you need your whole screen to be able to see an unscaled 1080p stream
If you want higher quality than default when in static or low motion scenes, you can manually edit settings but 3500kbit is a tiny bitrate for 1080p (3x that would be nicer) so quality when scene is in motion would suffer
So I guess it's best to stay in 720p 60 fps all the time no?
Like Destiny right now looks like 1080p 48 fps
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Destiny
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